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Adamantium_Avatar
08-29-2008, 03:57 AM
After reading solicit after solicit and spoiler after spoiler, and yes, even ocassionally forking out a few pennies for the odd issue, I have come to the conclusion that the Skrulls have to be the Universes worst tacticians EVER!

I do of course realise that the story has been written by writers unversed in most aspects of interplanetary warfare. But surely with all the technological, magical and physiological abilities the Skrulls seem to have 'borrowed' or evolved a much better invasion plan could have been developed.

Given the alledged long-term planning of this invasion I would have thought that there would have been a lot more Skrulls placed in much more useful positions.

If I were Commander in Chief of the Skrull forces then I would avoid any heroes like the plague. If traditionally my fellow Skrulls constantly got their asses handed to them then I would certainly think twice about replacing any of them.. At least at first!

The people to replace at first would be ordinary un-powered citizens.. Spread a little dissatisfaction among the populace and start to turn the tide of opinion against these super-powered vigilantes.

The next stage would be to move into the political arena. Supported by the apparent disgruntlement of the nation towards super-folks I would move replacements into government positions to instigate a chain of events culminating in a Superhero Registration Act.

If Stamford was enough to start the Civil War arc and turn people against heroes then a series of similar unfortunate events on top of already low public opinion would almost certainly cement a registration act.. Not controlled by Tony Stark, but secretly controlled by my Skrull forces, and it would be enforced more ruthlessley and would have far more restrictions.

Civil war breaks out amongst the superheroes.. Because as we all know they cannot sit down and talk about anything.. They just feel compelled to punch each other day in and day out when they disagree!

At this point with the heroes in disarray and only at this point I would start to subtly replace them. Suddenly staunch defenders of civil liberties and anti-reg devotees would appear in public denouncing their former stance and agreeing that registration actually makes sense.

And then the Hulk returns!! FANTASTIC!! I could not have wished for anything better to happen! (and that's even if he got past the real Blackbolt!)

This now gives me the perfect opportunity and excuse to declare a state of national emergency and enforce martial law until the 'crisis' abates. This now gives us a whole range of militant rules, regulations and powers we couldnt formerly enforce!

So, what does Hulk want? Well, he just wants the members of the Iluminati, so without any fuss we ask them to surrender to him as all the evidence appears to point to them illegally imprisoning him on another planet. We then manipulate the situation to our advantage and suggest that the Hulk returns with them to 'Planet Hulk' (dont remember it's name) to stand trial.. And to ensure that they are not abused on the trip we send Sentry, one of Hulk's oldest friends, along on the trip as well.

If the illuminati refuse to co-operate then we declare them enemies of the state and assist the Hulk in locating them and shipping them off planet (not that he appeared to need much help), once again sending Sentry to act as a guarantee of their 'safety'.

So, what next? Well, thats when the Skrull Armada turns up with a sob-story about how Reed Richards allowed Galactus to chow down on their planet and how they are now having to bum around the galaxy and how they feel that they no longer have a spiritual home. So, my 'puppet' government publicly appalled by the actions of the 'renegade' enemy of the state Reed Richards offer these Skrulls some land in compensation for their losses due to an Earthlings intereference.

So, now we have Skrulls openly and publicly living on Earth under a government secretly run by the self same Skrulls! Over mid-term through manipulation Skrulls rise to prominence in society and in the long-term 'we' are legitimately running the show.

:biggrin:


Well, I am sure things wouldnt exactly go that smoothly, but I sure as hell think it beats the strategy of 'replace a few minor heroes and thir family friends and then once one of us is discovered we have a major firefight with Earth's heroes which we are bound to lose as we always do when we try that!!'


So, if you were CiC of the Skrulls what would your strategy be for infiltrating/ invading Earth?

Splatt
08-29-2008, 04:56 AM
But what about the Savage Land fight? If it doesn't have that, it's not a Secret Invasion.

Adamantium_Avatar
08-29-2008, 04:58 AM
But what about the Savage Land fight? If it doesn't have that, it's not a Secret Invasion.

Let's face it.. With the Savage Land fight it certainly isn't very secret anway, lol

Expletive Deleted
08-29-2008, 05:06 AM
Well, yeah. They're religious nuts.

There were obviously more sensible and more effective ways of carrying out this invasion. But the types of Skrulls that could come up with those plans weren't in charge. Crazy, zealous, "Earth is ours by divine right"-type Skrulls were in charge.

Adamantium_Avatar
08-29-2008, 07:28 AM
Well, yeah. They're religious nuts.

There were obviously more sensible and more effective ways of carrying out this invasion. But the types of Skrulls that could come up with those plans weren't in charge. Crazy, zealous, "Earth is ours by divine right"-type Skrulls were in charge.

Well, I guess religious zealotry does explain abject stupidity... :wink:

Sijo
08-29-2008, 09:07 AM
Let's analyze the Skrull strategy so far:

-Replace people like Jarvis who would give them access to places like Stark Tower and the Hellicarrier so we can shut them off. Good.

-Taking out Reed Richards before he could (inevitably) come up with a way to detect the Skrulls. Perfect, except they should've killed him, instead they take him prisoner and he's rescued by one nonpowered woman. WTF?

-Luring the two Avengers teams away from New York while we strike there. Good. (what about the OTHER hero groups? X-Men, Initiatives, Fantastic Four?)

-Trick the two groups into fighting each other (not that they needed much reason.) Would be good, except most heroes don't kill, so at best this slows them down for a while.

-Confusing the heroes with a false "we were replaced long ago!" heroes. Not bad, but again, not something that will last for long.

-Invade New York city with an army of Super Skrulls. Not bad, but they should've saved that for last. (and they got owned by Nick Fury and a bunch of newbies. Disappointing; it should've been a major battle.)

-Using TV to announce their presence and try to convince the public that it's a good thing they're here. Yeah, like that's going to work. I know these are Skrull fanatics who probably *do* believe that, but this should've been saved for when the Skrulls felt they had won- not while the fighting was still going on.

In general, their planning is sound, but seems oddly limited and rushed. Makes you feel like the story is coming to and end when there are still several issues to go. So, unless Bendis has some truly neat twists waiting (which I'm sure he thinks he does, but we fans are the final judges of that) this is going to fizzle soon. (I know most fans were waiting for "shocking Skrull ID revelations!" to happen on every major Marvel title, but so far that hasn't been the case.)

If I'd written it, I would have started by infiltrating EVERY major hero's private lives (and every hero team) with Skrull superagents, then have them all reveal themselves simultaneously, and do as much damage as possible. Then the fact that nobody can be trusted would sink in, leaving the heroes unable to cooperate with each other (which is how they usually win.) Then I'd pick them off one by one.

SeritoNiN
08-29-2008, 09:28 AM
This mini-series isn't worth all this effort to dissect, the writer didn't even put this much thought into it, why should we? Just buy something competent.....like a DC book.

theardri
08-29-2008, 12:18 PM
Let's analyze the Skrull strategy so far:

-Taking out Reed Richards before he could (inevitably) come up with a way to detect the Skrulls. Perfect, except they should've killed him, instead they take him prisoner and he's rescued by one nonpowered woman. WTF?

-.


Agent Brand DOES have powers and is half Alien so ...
Also Fury is unpowered but with a large gun did just fine ;)

Hybrid2
08-29-2008, 02:02 PM
The whole thing is badly edited and writen. In one book the Skull want to "save humanity" in the other they eat peoples.or kill everyone.

So far zero mention of the Annihilation wave and how the empire is no more and the Skrulls nearly extinct.
from the flashback the invasion as been planned for years.How did the destruction of the Empire affected they're plans?

And the heroes keep killing and killing and killing...

Killing the fake and confussed heroes in the savage land was cold blooded murder.


Almost forgot. How exactly are the skrulls hiden from magic and mindreading and Spider-man Spider sence?
those cant be afected by genetic manipulation.And Reed know dont understand magic.
Reed may be supersmart.but compare to a thousand years old civilisation he should'nt be that impresive to them. IMO.
Like a ape building a car.

XPac
08-29-2008, 02:46 PM
It's pretty much a given that Skrulls (and just about anyone invading the eart) are morons.

If they had half a brain, they'd just leave earth alone. Seriously. Earth has repelled the likes of Galactus and the Strange and Dormammu lord knows how many times. You just don't mess with earth. Period.

Mess with the Kree or the Shiar or something

LordEd1976
08-29-2008, 02:47 PM
If I'd written it, I would have started by infiltrating EVERY major hero's private lives (and every hero team) with Skrull superagents, then have them all reveal themselves simultaneously, and do as much damage as possible. Then the fact that nobody can be trusted would sink in, leaving the heroes unable to cooperate with each other (which is how they usually win.) Then I'd pick them off one by one.

There was something like this in the DC mini-series Millenium. The first issue ended with various supporting characters outing themselves as agents of the Manhunters to various heroes.

marvell2100
08-29-2008, 02:54 PM
I'm just glad they didn't show up with the idea of "How To Serve Humans."

DeadXMan
08-29-2008, 03:16 PM
Let's analyze the Skrull strategy so far:

-Replace people like Jarvis who would give them access to places like Stark Tower and the Hellicarrier so we can shut them off. Good.

-Taking out Reed Richards before he could (inevitably) come up with a way to detect the Skrulls. Perfect, except they should've killed him, instead they take him prisoner and he's rescued by one nonpowered woman. WTF?

-Luring the two Avengers teams away from New York while we strike there. Good. (what about the OTHER hero groups? X-Men, Initiatives, Fantastic Four?)

-Trick the two groups into fighting each other (not that they needed much reason.) Would be good, except most heroes don't kill, so at best this slows them down for a while.

-Confusing the heroes with a false "we were replaced long ago!" heroes. Not bad, but again, not something that will last for long.

-Invade New York city with an army of Super Skrulls. Not bad, but they should've saved that for last. (and they got owned by Nick Fury and a bunch of newbies. Disappointing; it should've been a major battle.)

-Using TV to announce their presence and try to convince the public that it's a good thing they're here. Yeah, like that's going to work. I know these are Skrull fanatics who probably *do* believe that, but this should've been saved for when the Skrulls felt they had won- not while the fighting was still going on.

In general, their planning is sound, but seems oddly limited and rushed. Makes you feel like the story is coming to and end when there are still several issues to go. So, unless Bendis has some truly neat twists waiting (which I'm sure he thinks he does, but we fans are the final judges of that) this is going to fizzle soon. (I know most fans were waiting for "shocking Skrull ID revelations!" to happen on every major Marvel title, but so far that hasn't been the case.)

If I'd written it, I would have started by infiltrating EVERY major hero's private lives (and every hero team) with Skrull superagents, then have them all reveal themselves simultaneously, and do as much damage as possible. Then the fact that nobody can be trusted would sink in, leaving the heroes unable to cooperate with each other (which is how they usually win.) Then I'd pick them off one by one.



Band is a half human aliean that can burn things with her touch (see AXM)

FF thorwn into the negitive zone (see FF SI)
X-men went underground after "disbanding" pop up in san Fransisco and caught the skrulls by surprise
all The Ignititive teams have a skrull in there ranks and is ready to kill the teams( see A:I 16)

mikekerr3
08-29-2008, 04:35 PM
I'm just glad they didn't show up with the idea of "How To Serve Humans."

They think that Reed Richards wrote that book:biggrin:

marvell2100
08-29-2008, 04:47 PM
They think that Reed Richards wrote that book:biggrin:

Lol!!! Is that why they were "picking" or "pickling" his brain?

Orin GA
08-29-2008, 05:31 PM
Can someone tell me why some skrulls dont know they are skrulls and some do? Was this part of the plan or a defect?

StoneGold
08-29-2008, 05:57 PM
They think that Reed Richards wrote that book:biggrin:

Actually, a clone of his did create the invasion strategy.

Sijo
08-29-2008, 06:12 PM
About Agent Brand: I may have been thinking of somebody else. In any case, how lame are the Skrulls that one woman takes Richards's guards out? You'd think they would post MAJOR Superskrulls to watch over him.


X-men went underground after "disbanding" pop up in san Fransisco and caught the skrulls by surprise So much for Skrull infiltration skills...


Also Fury is unpowered but with a large gun did just fine ;)
That's the answer! Let's just give every hero Big Guns and we'll win!! It'll the 90's all over again! :wink:

spidarwin
08-30-2008, 12:09 AM
Well, I guess religious zealotry does explain abject stupidity... :wink:

Truer words were never spoken!!!

DeadXMan
08-30-2008, 12:17 AM
About Agent Brand: I may have been thinking of somebody else. In any case, how lame are the Skrulls that one woman takes Richards's guards out? You'd think they would post MAJOR Superskrulls to watch over him.

So much for Skrull infiltration skills...

That's the answer! Let's just give every hero Big Guns and we'll win!! It'll the 90's all over again! :wink:

that's why the Intel officer of the west coast invasion fleet got his head blown off at the end of SI: X-men #1
try reading the books instead of looking at the pretty pictures:wink:

DeadXMan
08-30-2008, 12:23 AM
Truer words were never spoken!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go

more proof that religious zealot have no brains

SeritoNiN
08-30-2008, 09:07 AM
Can someone tell me why some skrulls dont know they are skrulls and some do? Was this part of the plan or a defect?

Bendis will be explaining this in a 48-page loooong, drawn out one-shot called "Secret Invasion: Saving my ass from the loop holes"

vitruvian
08-30-2008, 09:53 AM
The Skrulls presenting themselves as having a better way of life is kind of laughable, given how they've always been portrayed as the sorts of folk who kill minorities within their own race (mutants, not that humans are much better), take slaves to pit against each other in gladiatorial combat, and so on.

Perhaps they have a plan B after all, though. What if there's been a parallel effort underway to infiltrate the dairy industry? Suddenly, the heroes could find that everybody who's not lactose-intolerant is a brainwashed shapeshifter on the side of the Skrulls.

seekquaze
08-30-2008, 09:58 AM
First off in response to the initial post. Your plan does have some serious flaws in it.
1. Making the registration act would only risk driving more heroes underground and harder to find. You also risk alienating the likes of Reed Richards and Tony Stark. With their technology they could make enforcing it very difficult. And their brains teaming up with Nick Fury would create problems as well. Essentially, while you may be making the heroes more alien to the common people you make tracking them down even more difficult. Worse, if they do flee the country or even the planet you risk having to track them down, retaliatory strikes, the chaos of supervillains, etc.

2. The moment proimenant figures suddenly radically change their stance on policies and issues would send alarm bells throughout the entire superhuman community. Most of the experienced heroes have enough experience with mind control, clones, shapeshifters, etc. that they will start investigating and in all likilihood expose the Skrulls.

3. The Hulk-The Hulk is percieved as a menace by the world at large. Stark and Richards at least are highly respected heroes. If the government wanted to suddenly turn over two if its most respected scientits/heroes over to what the world percieves as a monster there would be a massive public backlash. Followed by the questions raised why the U. S. is suddenly giving into threats when it never has in the past.

4. The Skrull Armada-Humans can't get along with their own kind. There is no way they would allow a bunch of shapeshifting aliens with a history of attacking Earth to land on Earth. That again would set up alarm bells throughout the world.

The Skrull initial invasion plan was good, but as others and I have commented in this and other post the Skrulls are hampere by several issues:

1. Religious Zealotry-The Skrulls believe they cannot possible loose. As such once they have taken out initial defenses to them the rest is clean up. That and religious zealots are not always the best military planners. The army is realitivly untrained and almost wants to die in battle. Not a good way to win a war.

2. Pride-The Skrulls view humans as inferior so they probable think once they take out the main heroes the rest will just role over.

3. Lack of patience-This and a combination of pride is long noted as being a problem of the SKrulls. This causes them to fail to use their shapeshifitng abilities to the full extent often relying on brute force. This has been their problem for millions of years.

4. Lack of though-development-For all their talk of being a changing people the Skrulls are incapable of true change. Not just genetically, but theologically, politically, ideological, military, etc. The Skrulls do not change. They employ the same basic techniques they have always done. Kly'bn is scene as eternal and perfect. So the Skrulls would not want to deviant from what has gone before.

Finally, on the issue of killing. This is a war. The Skrulls are a massive invading army that is not surrendering. So the rules of combate are different. Captain America himself admitted in during the Kang Dynasty. Besides, they don't really have a prison to hold them now do they?

Will.S
08-30-2008, 10:01 AM
This mini-series isn't worth all this effort to dissect, the writer didn't even put this much thought into it, why should we? Just buy something competent.....like a DC book.
Uh, I like DC but they're only good with a couple of things so far. I would hardly tell anyone to buy a random DC book just because one doesn't like Secret Invasion.


Can someone tell me why some skrulls dont know they are skrulls and some do? Was this part of the plan or a defect?
Which ones specifically?

seekquaze
08-30-2008, 10:05 AM
The Skrulls presenting themselves as having a better way of life is kind of laughable, given how they've always been portrayed as the sorts of folk who kill minorities within their own race (mutants, not that humans are much better), take slaves to pit against each other in gladiatorial combat, and so on.


This has been explained some in various tie-ins and one-shots. Essentially, the Skrulls under Emperor Dorrek the VII (the one who started the invasion) was a secular regime who only paid lip service to religion. The invading Skrulls are part of a minority faction the vast majority of the Skrull race considered extreme and dangerous. The invading Skrulls are followers of Kly'bn who was considered the perfect, ideological Skrull who ever Skrull should strive to become. The Invaders probable consider the rest of the empire as falling away from him and that by conforming Earth and the remaining Skrulls to a strict way of life according to Kly'bn (which may or may not include slavery and gladiatorial games) will be better for anyone.

As for the Skrulls killing their own minorities, that is something I have been wondering about. They claim they want to evolve and complain how the only way they can is through artifical processes, but at the same time at least certain mutations they kill which I guess they deem some how heritical or believe are bad for the growth of their species, but want other mutations such as the war skrulls to be the dominant form of evolution.

SeritoNiN
08-30-2008, 03:24 PM
Which ones specifically?

Well let's see, in New Avengers, Kazar's woman goes off in a shield outfit trying to figure out what's up, they know right away it's not who it's supposed to be.

Then,
Agent Brand is in Invasion # 5, on the skrulls ship, and they demand she revert.

Contradiction.

Will.S
08-30-2008, 03:38 PM
Well let's see, in New Avengers, Kazar's woman goes off in a shield outfit trying to figure out what's up, they know right away it's not who it's supposed to be.

Then,
Agent Brand is in Invasion # 5, on the skrulls ship, and they demand she revert.

Contradiction.
There is no contradiction.

Skrull Contessa did not know right away and was suspicious of Shanna because the skrull who she took the uniform off of was not in his/her post, then Shanna starting shooting the crap out of them.

americocaine
08-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Or you can blame that stupid primadonna Veranke bitch for believing the heresy and lies of false god like Kly'bn. Sl'gurt fell for the same trick.

"He" is dead so they lose anyway but not without conflicting heavy casualties. Like disassembling the Mighty Avengers who enjoyed measly 12 issues of fame. You could also probably thank Frank Cho for all his trouble with drawing the first issues of such an important launch title but again, I digress..

mikekerr3
08-30-2008, 05:35 PM
Actually, a clone of his did create the invasion strategy.

But he was the one who intoduced Skrulls to the food cycle. They owe him big time payback.

jackolover
08-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Well, the Skrulls strategy wasn't all bad.

They actually did get rid of the Illuminati, and had the Heroes coralled in the Savage Land, and their Skrull plant in charge of the SHRA FSI, before they sent in the armada. So from that standpoint, the Skrulls were effective, up to that point.

But like all plans against the Earth heroes, (and your plan fits into this also), you can't plan against the unexpected, and the unexpected appeared in the guise of Agent Brand. Not Fury, Maria Hill, the Initiative, the Runaways, the Young Avengers, any of them affected the change in fortunes, like the release of Reed Richards by Agent Brand, and the distraction by Black Widow of Spider Woman, from screwing with Tony Starks psychology. Both these events threw a spanner in the works by releaseing Richards and Stark back on the playing field. Panther was defeated in his book by the Skrulls, Namor was disinherited from Atlantis in his book, and Black Bolt was replaced by a Skrull. Professor X has his own distraction after being exiled from his own X-Men.

Once Richards and Stark get to mobilising the resistance and joining forces with Fury, the Skrull Armada will be wiped out, and it just requires a Skrull cleanup crew to ferret out the remaining stragglers, and hanging Queen Veranke in the White House lawn.

Orin GA
08-31-2008, 08:42 AM
Uh, I like DC but they're only good with a couple of things so far. I would hardly tell anyone to buy a random DC book just because one doesn't like Secret Invasion.


Which ones specifically?

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