British Sitcoms

[jbelkinsii]

Mr. Grant (if I may call you Steve please let me know),

First let me say I've enjoyed your column for the last couple of years.

While I'm not sure I agree with your stance on British sitcoms, you did fail to mention 2 of my favorites: Yes, Minister (later Yes, Prime Minister) and Some Mothers Do 'ave 'em (I think that's what it was called). There was a third about an older woman in a nursing home or retirement home... do you know the one I'm talking about?

Those were the days when only PBS carried British sitcoms and what was shown in Oregon (Doctor Who, Red Dwarf) was much different than what was shown in Alaska (No Doctor Who, No Red Dwarf). Now, I have the pleasure of BBC America and... well let's be honest... my wife hates Briish sitcoms, so I missed the Office, Coupling, Spaced, etc. etc., but I get to watch Graham Norton, Top Gear, and Torchwood so I guess it's a fair trade. Now I'm just rambling. Night.

Jamie Elkins

[Steven Grant]

Mr. Grant (if I may call you Steve please let me know),

First let me say I've enjoyed your column for the last couple of years.

While I'm not sure I agree with your stance on British sitcoms, you did fail to mention 2 of my favorites: Yes, Minister (later Yes, Prime Minister) and Some Mothers Do 'ave 'em (I think that's what it was called). There was a third about an older woman in a nursing home or retirement home... do you know the one I'm talking about?

Those were the days when only PBS carried British sitcoms and what was shown in Oregon (Doctor Who, Red Dwarf) was much different than what was shown in Alaska (No Doctor Who, No Red Dwarf). Now, I have the pleasure of BBC America and... well let's be honest... my wife hates Briish sitcoms, so I missed the Office, Coupling, Spaced, etc. etc., but I get to watch Graham Norton, Top Gear, and Torchwood so I guess it's a fair trade. Now I'm just rambling. Night.

Jamie Elkins

I did like YES... MINISTER and numerous other Britcoms but couldn't name (or even remember, which is another reason YES... slipped my mind) all of them in the space I had. Never heard of SOME MOTHERS DO 'AVE 'EM, and I've passed by the one in the nursing home but don't remember the name nor noticed anything that about it that caught my eye. But I recall it played on PBS Seattle way close to forever... (May still be playing now, for all I know...)

- Grant

[Buzz Dixon]

...I've passed by the one in the nursing home but don't remember the name nor noticed anything that about it that caught my eye.WAITING FOR GOD. Pretty funny in a very acerbic way. The old lady was a WWII photojournalist whose best friend is a somewhat befuddled elderly man who may or may not be genuinely demented (there's a lot to suggest he's deliberately scamming the system). The supporting cast is pretty funny but more cartoonish. The whole thing has a ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST vibe to it but with a veddy, veddy British flavor -- 'scuse me, flavour.

[dancj]

Waiting for God was good. I've heard that Some Mothers Do Have 'em started off well, but the later ones I've seen were pretty lame.

Other notable ones that no-one's mentioned yet are The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin, Father Ted, Green Wing, The IT Crowd and One Foot in the Grave.

Steven - what's Good Neighbours? I've never heard of that one. Did it have a different name in Britain? - scratch that, I've just googled it. It's called The Good Life over here.

The sitcom is half-dead over here at the moment with the only major success that I'm aware of being the terrible My Family. Still there is hope that the new No Heroics sitcom about super-heroes will be good. (I watched the first episode of it in my dream last night and it was similar to Green Wing)

[Imaginos666]

Holy crap, I haven't seen anyone mention The Goodies since I was 10 years old. (That was about 25 years ago, for perspective.) What ever happened to those guys?

[Paul McEnery]

Holy crap, I haven't seen anyone mention The Goodies since I was 10 years old. (That was about 25 years ago, for perspective.) What ever happened to those guys?

This would raise an eyebrow in the UK, since two of the three are in England's longest running radio comedy, I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue, and the other does tons of nature documentaries.

And they recently did a live tour to promote all the DVDs coming out.

[Imaginos666]

This would raise an eyebrow in the UK, since two of the three are in England's longest running radio comedy, I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue, and the other does tons of nature documentaries.

And they recently did a live tour to promote all the DVDs coming out.

I've lived in America since '82, and there appears to be some import rule that limits British television shows broadcast in America to Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, Monty Python and Doctor Who (though the occasional Red Dwarf/Are You Being Served/As Time Goes By slips through every once in a while.)

[bartl]

Steven - what's Good Neighbours? I've never heard of that one. Did it have a different name in Britain? - scratch that, I've just googled it. It's called The Good Life over here.
That's odd; they even had credits with that name here. I guess it's because there was a Larry Hagman sitcom called "The Good Life" in the U.S.

It's a kind of comedy of which I'm especially fond: a group of basically well-intentioned people stuck with each other, who, due to their differing ideas of what is desirable, drive each other crazy by trying to be nice to each other.

[Steven Grant]

That's odd; they even had credits with that name here. I guess it's because there was a Larry Hagman sitcom called "The Good Life" in the U.S.

That's exactly why. The Hagman/Donna Mills sitcom (in which, I believe, they were conmen acting as butler and maid for a rich family, or something like that), though it only last half a season or something in the early '70s had the name "The Good Life" legally sewn up here. So on import the British one was retitled GOOD NEIGHBORS and new title cards were done up, though on occasion an episode would end up being called THE GOOD LIFE instead.

In the "good" vein, THE GOODIES aired in NYC at 10:30 AM Saturdays in the late '70s/early '80s, following the half-hour version of Tom Baker's DR. WHO. Talk about must-see TV. I don't remember much about THE GOODIES aside from laughing myself silly - it was like a kid-friendlier version of MONTY PYTHON - and the only bit I specifically recall is killer rabbits from outer space attacking, and talking like Bugs Bunny.

- Grant

[King Chillout]

I was wondering what you meant when you mentioned "Good Neighbours", but it's been cleared up now.:smile:

I would definitely seek out other British sitcoms such as.... Porridge, Rising Damp, Dad's Army, On The Buses and Open All Hours.

If I described what each of them was about.....you would never believe me !:smile:

I've been reading your CBR column for ages and enjoyed it a lot (even though your politics are probably a million miles from mine).
I'd just like to say thanks for keeping me entertained.

[Paul McEnery]

For the most part, there are three rules of comedy in the UK right now.

1) The sitcom is not the dominant form. The comedy quiz show is. QI, Mock the Week, Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and Have I Got News for You, for instance.

2) Radio is still hot in the UK. Plenty of comedy quiz shows, but also a ton of sharp sitcom and stand up. BBC Radio 7 does a lot of reruns, while Radio 4 has the first run.

3) Chris Morris and Armando Ianucci.

[Rob Allen]

Two almost-unrelated thoughts on this thread:

- the first British sitcom I remember seeing was Doctor in the House on New York TV in the early 70s. Anyone else recall that one?

- if the British enjoy comedy quiz shows on the radio, they ought to try NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me (http://www.npr.org/programs/waitwait/)

[Paul McEnery]

Two almost-unrelated thoughts on this thread:

- the first British sitcom I remember seeing was Doctor in the House on New York TV in the early 70s. Anyone else recall that one?

- if the British enjoy comedy quiz shows on the radio, they ought to try NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me (http://www.npr.org/programs/waitwait/)

Having listened to NPR's pitiful, smug, limp, dimwitted and gutless attempt at reproducing The News Quiz, I'm thinking they probably shouldn't.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Other notable ones that no-one's mentioned yet are The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin, Father Ted, Green Wing, The IT Crowd and One Foot in the Grave.


Or Black Books, The Mighty Boosh, Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, Extras, and so on and so forth...


So on import the British one was retitled GOOD NEIGHBORS and new title cards were done up, though on occasion an episode would end up being called THE GOOD LIFE instead.


Phew, I thought you were referring to 'Love Thy Neighbour', a show from the 70's about a white couple living next door to a black couple, and the white couple struggling to deal with it.
Calling the black man 'Nig Nog' was just a part of the hilarity.

[king mob]

Other notable ones that no-one's mentioned yet are The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin, Father Ted, Green Wing, The IT Crowd and One Foot in the Grave.

Reggie Perrin is to be remade for 'a 21st century audience' & it's going to be 'dark' according to execs at the Edinburgh Television Festival. The original series was dark, sophisticated & bloody funny, but it's going to suffer in the BBC's remake frenzy.

Father Ted is just sublime genius; less so is One Foot In The Grave but it's still great.

Green Wing is hugely overrated & bollocks. The IT Crowd should be funnier but suffers from weak scripts and awful casting.

The real gem though is Peep Show (http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/P/peep_show/). Simply the bes British sitcom since Father Ted.

A lost gem is Dead Man Weds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Man_Weds) which is probably the best thing Johnny Vegas has done & shows that Dave Spikey was the real talent behind the also great Phoenix Nights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kay%27s_Phoenix_Nights).

[king mob]

I would definitely seek out other British sitcoms such as.... Porridge, Rising Damp, Dad's Army, On The Buses and Open All Hours.


On The Buses is rubbish, complete & utter rubbish that has dated very, very badly. The rest are all worth searching out but KC is right; they'd be very hard to easily explain or translate to an American audience.

[king mob]

3) Chris Morris and Armando Ianucci.

Anything pre Nathan Barley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Barley) is worth searching out. Barley the tv series never matched the joy of the original Cunt (http://thegestalt.org/simon/cunt/) entries from TV Go Home. (http://www.tvgohome.com/)

Iannucci has also been a bit hit & miss, but The Thick Of It (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/thickofit/)is the best (and only) satire of our horrendous Labour government we have, but search out The Armando Iannucci Shows. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Armando_Iannucci_Shows)

[Imaginos666]

That's exactly why. The Hagman/Donna Mills sitcom (in which, I believe, they were conmen acting as butler and maid for a rich family, or something like that), though it only last half a season or something in the early '70s had the name "The Good Life" legally sewn up here. So on import the British one was retitled GOOD NEIGHBORS and new title cards were done up, though on occasion an episode would end up being called THE GOOD LIFE instead.

In the "good" vein, THE GOODIES aired in NYC at 10:30 AM Saturdays in the late '70s/early '80s, following the half-hour version of Tom Baker's DR. WHO. Talk about must-see TV. I don't remember much about THE GOODIES aside from laughing myself silly - it was like a kid-friendlier version of MONTY PYTHON - and the only bit I specifically recall is killer rabbits from outer space attacking, and talking like Bugs Bunny.

- Grant

The only sketch I remember from The Goodies was "The Godmother," which was a Godfather parody using a Fairy Godmother. The Goodies was one of the better variety/comedy shows I was allowed to watch (I was 8 or 9 years old at the time.) Benny Hill and Kenny Everett? Not so much. In retrospect I didn't miss out on much, but I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Everett's ruthless handling of Terry Wogan.

[bartl]

- the first British sitcom I remember seeing was Doctor in the House on New York TV in the early 70s. Anyone else recall that one?
I definitely do. I was exposed to British comedy earlier, however, having lived in the Netherlands in the late 60's.

Before 1970, "Prime Time" was 7:30PM - 11:00PM. Around 1970, the FCC prevented networks from having shows in the 7:30 - 8:00PM slot, but opened up the 7:00-8:00 slot on Sundays, provided that it was used for child-friendly or news programming. The local stations all started showing repeats of old network shows. The FCC put a stop to that within a year or so. it wasn't until FAMILY FEUD that the local stations started putting up blocks of syndicated shows on the 7:30 to 8:00 slot, and DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE was in the bubble in between the network repeats and the block less-scripted shows.

One thing that DID come out of this; at the time, 60 MINUTES was being shown 6PM on Sundays. Local CBS affiliates did not want CBS to own ALL of Sunday night, so many chose not to broadcast CBS's 7-8 Sunday night offerings. CBS was in a position that, if it wanted to continue to broadcast 60 MINUTES, it would have to have a guaranteed flop in the 7-8 slot. However, as is often the case on TV shows that are "fit for children" end up being "fit for nobody". CBS came up with the idea of, since they were going to get low ratings in the slot anyway, to just put 60 MINUTES in the slot. Given the choice between insipid "family programming" and 60 MINUTES, people flocked to 60 MINUTES, making it the #1 show on television, and creating the requirement that news shows, rather than being money losers to keep their license, were now expected to be profitable.

[Steven Grant]

Mr. Grant (if I may call you Steve please let me know),

By the way, you can call me anything you like but in print it's always Steven. Or Grant.

(Or, as I once told someone, my friends call me Grant. My really good friends call me Steven.)

(Or, as I once told John Byrne, if being called by your last name is good enough for the House of Lords, it's good enough for me.)

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Calling the black man 'Nig Nog' was just a part of the hilarity.

Uhhhhhhhhhh-huh...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Father Ted is just sublime genius

Father Ted - I've seen maybe two-thirds of them - leaves me flat cold. Except for the twenty second walk-on by Father Brian Eno, but that's not enough. Everyone I know loves it but I just don't get it.


Green Wing is hugely overrated & bollocks. The IT Crowd should be funnier but suffers from weak scripts and awful casting.

Never seen Green Wing. Agree on The IT Crowd; it's okay but seems like they thought the whole premise was so hysterically funny they didn't need jokes or interesting plots. A whole episode devoted to a woman's fixation on shoes? Sure, that's not at all cheesily stereotypical. Thought the second season was better than the first, though...

Don't know if I've ever heard of the others, except Reginald Perrin, which I saw sporadically and also left me uninterested. Of course, I'm not especially fond of whasisname who was in it, good as he was in Yes... Minister. (He was in Rising Damp, too, wasn't he?) He needs a Paul Ellington to play off...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Benny Hill and Kenny Everett?

Can't stand Benny Hill, which played in syndication and on PBS here pretty much forever. I liked Kenny Everett's video show, which was syndie here for a couple years, because it played a lot of British videos that didn't show up here otherwise. But I could've lived without his Benny Hill-inspired comedy bits.

Benny Hill was Larry Hama's favorite comedian, if I remember correctly...

- Grant

[Rob Allen]

Having listened to NPR's pitiful, smug, limp, dimwitted and gutless attempt at reproducing The News Quiz, I'm thinking they probably shouldn't.Now I'm curious. Are any British radio comedy quiz shows accessible online or on the air here?

[king mob]

Uhhhhhhhhhh-huh...

- Grant

It should be noted that Love Thy Neighbour has never, ever been repeated on mainstream British telly, even though the author has said it was highlighting immigration into the UK at the time.. Like Curry & Chips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_&_Chips), it's something that should disapear into history & never be spoken of again because it's just rubbish & incredibly dodgy.

[king mob]

Father Ted - I've seen maybe two-thirds of them - leaves me flat cold. Except for the twenty second walk-on by Father Brian Eno, but that's not enough. Everyone I know loves it but I just don't get it.

Stick with it and try to accept the British/Irish humour. The Eurovision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8linZiGYSeE)episode is by far my favourite.




Never seen Green Wing. Agree on The IT Crowd; it's okay but seems like they thought the whole premise was so hysterically funny they didn't need jokes or interesting plots. A whole episode devoted to a woman's fixation on shoes? Sure, that's not at all cheesily stereotypical. Thought the second season was better than the first, though...

To be fair to Graham Linehan (the writer) he admits on the series one commentary that it was a bit rubbish, but losing Chris Morris (who is doing a sitcom about suicide bombers) was a huge blow in the second series.


Don't know if I've ever heard of the others, except Reginald Perrin, which I saw sporadically and also left me uninterested. Of course, I'm not especially fond of whasisname who was in it, good as he was in Yes... Minister. (He was in Rising Damp, too, wasn't he?) He needs a Paul Ellington to play off...

- Grant


Leonard Rossiter is the man & Reggie Perrin is genius, but needs to be seen in order to get what exactly is going on. Ignore the series the BBC made after Rossiter died.

[king mob]

Now I'm curious. Are any British radio comedy quiz shows accessible online or on the air here?

You can find some Chris Morris stuff here (http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/).

[Steven Grant]

Stick with it and try to accept the British/Irish humour. The Eurovision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8linZiGYSeE)episode is by far my favourite.

No, no, I've stuck with it all I'm going to. It's in fact pretty ordinary - it plays like a long SCTV sketch, starring Joe Flaherty - and strikes me as something it probably helps to be drunk while watching...


To be fair to Graham Linehan (the writer) he admits on the series one commentary that it was a bit rubbish, but losing Chris Morris (who is doing a sitcom about suicide bombers) was a huge blow in the second series.

But... the second season, uh, series was better...

The more comedies about suicide bombers the merrier. Probably'll be a short series, though...


Leonard Rossiter is the man & Reggie Perrin is genius, but needs to be seen in order to get what exactly is going on. Ignore the series the BBC made after Rossiter died.

That'll be easy. I had no idea they made a series after Rossiter died.

My idea of a great British comedy is DEAD HEAD...

- Grant

[king mob]

No, no, I've stuck with it all I'm going to. It's in fact pretty ordinary - it plays like a long SCTV sketch, starring Joe Flaherty - and strikes me as something it probably helps to be drunk while watching...

Fair enough, Ted doesn't translate to all tastes.




But... the second season, uh, series was better...

Not by much. Losing Morris & replacing him with the awful Matt Berry was a serious cock up.


The more comedies about suicide bombers the merrier. Probably'll be a short series, though...
You probably won't have seen the Brummie suidice bombers in Monkey Dust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2HBIU-jnHY).




My idea of a great British comedy is DEAD HEAD...

- Grant

You'll like the idea of a comedy/horror series where the world has been overrun by a zombie infestation & the only safe place in the UK is the Big Brother house.

Dead Set.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/21/television.television1

[Steven Grant]

Not by much. Losing Morris & replacing him with the awful Matt Berry was a serious cock up.

No, not by much, but unlike the first series it wasn't entirely "anyone who knows anything about computers is an utter social misfit who'll piss his pants if a woman even passes by his building" either, and actually dealt a little more evenhandedly with its own characters, though it also seemed the actors were more comfortable with their roles and the younger guy they brought in as the insane new boss was a much better character than the quasi-Fawlty boring old fart bureaucrat boss they had in the first season. The first season seemed to me written (and I paid no attention to who the writers actually were) by old creeps who had never learned to even program their own VCRs and had longed to be in with the in crowd at school. The second season seemed to be written by people with an actual passing familiarity with their material.

In any case, neither season was especially a highlight of British comedy...

Just started watching THE HOLLOWMEN, a recent Aussie political comedy ala THE THICK OF IT. Fortunately, the American version of THE THICK OF IT appears to be a dead issue...


You probably won't have seen the Brummie suidice bombers in Monkey Dust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2HBIU-jnHY).

I hadn't but thanks for the link.


You'll like the idea of a comedy/horror series where the world has been overrun by a zombie infestation & the only safe place in the UK is the Big Brother house.

Dead Set.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/21/television.television1

Sounds a bit high concept for my taste; you sort of lost me at "zombies," though I did like both SHAWN OF THE DEAD and 28 DAYS LATER. But I'll check it out as well, thanks.

- Grant

[Paul McEnery]

Not by much. Losing Morris & replacing him with the awful Matt Berry was a serious cock up.

Morris wasn't given much to do -- very disappointing -- but what he did was golden.

[king mob]

No, not by much, but unlike the first series it wasn't entirely "anyone who knows anything about computers is an utter social misfit who'll piss his pants if a woman even passes by his building" either, and actually dealt a little more evenhandedly with its own characters, though it also seemed the actors were more comfortable with their roles and the younger guy they brought in as the insane new boss was a much better character than the quasi-Fawlty boring old fart bureaucrat boss they had in the first season. The first season seemed to me written (and I paid no attention to who the writers actually were) by old creeps who had never learned to even program their own VCRs and had longed to be in with the in crowd at school. The second season seemed to be written by people with an actual passing familiarity with their material.

The writer was the same person; Graham Linehan & he did realise that he filled the first series with fairly predictable, not to mention lazy, gags. The second series did tone it down but Linehan found that people actually liked the geek jokes, (the set is peppered with dozens of in-jokes) but did try to make them a bit funnier. Whether that worked is somewhat debatable.

As for Morris, he's a great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w&feature=related) performer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyX-CwHpAQ&feature=related) & The IT Crowd reminded us all of that, even if the character Morris was playing was a variation of C.J. from Reggie Perrin.. Mat Berry just wades through scripts doing this sub Steve Coogan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2D3-FkoXNU&feature=related) nonsense.


In any case, neither season was especially a highlight of British comedy...

True, but both series were better than the vastly overrated Extras.


Just started watching THE HOLLOWMEN, a recent Aussie political comedy ala THE THICK OF IT. Fortunately, the American version of THE THICK OF IT appears to be a dead issue...


An American Thick Of It would be completely pointless as it's a specific satire of New Labour.

[Libaax]

IMO the greatest comedy genius from britain is Benny Hill.

Im not old enough to remember him and his show when he was alive. But the reruns over here killed me. I dont care how sexist some of the jokes were the guy was a genius.


Other favorite brit sitcoms are Coupling i use to think relationship comedy was boring stuff ala Friends then i saw Steve,Jeff,Patrick and co.

Shame it didnt go on for many years.

[king mob]

IMO the greatest comedy genius from britain is Benny Hill.

Im not old enough to remember him and his show when he was alive. But the reruns over here killed me. I dont care how sexist some of the jokes were the guy was a genius.


He wasn't, well he wasn't by the time he went to ITV and became huge across the world. His BBC work he did in the 60's (much of which doesn't exist anymore) is very good indeed, but by the time he started the ITV programme's he was churning out tired old gags that were horribly sexist & just not very funny.

Hill's ITV shows in the 70's have dated very badly as well & really don't hold up, which is why it's a pity his 60's stuff is virtually gone.


Other favorite brit sitcoms are Coupling i use to think relationship comedy was boring stuff ala Friends then i saw Steve,Jeff,Patrick and co.

Shame it didnt go on for many years.


Coupling is ok, but it's getting a lot of fuss, not to mention a decent DVD release due to Stephen Moffat becoming the head writer of Doctor Who.

[david r]

They started playing Keeping Up Appearances here in Northern California and I sat and watched an episode. It was bloody hilarious. I now saw the whole run and wished they'd made more.

I found it interesting how in America, most new shows are all about teens-20 year olds. And in Keeping Up Appearances it is all older folks. You would NEVER see that here in the U.S.

[Buzz Dixon]

My wife and I are fans of KEEPING UP APPEARANCES. It's astonishing that a social climbing petite bourgeous snob like Mrs. Bucket can be so appealing as a character.

[Lord Destiny]

I stand in support of Are You Being Served?

Funny, likable characters all around (particularly the early seasons).

Helluva lot funnier than the vast majority of sitcoms I've seen made in America the past 25 years. So even when the Brits are mediocre, it's better than what American networks are churning out.

[Lord Destiny]

I liked the Unexpurgated Benny Hill I saw on cable in the 80s... Never saw tits in a comedy show before that.

[Lord Destiny]

They started playing Keeping Up Appearances here in Northern California and I sat and watched an episode. It was bloody hilarious. I now saw the whole run and wished they'd made more.

I found it interesting how in America, most new shows are all about teens-20 year olds. And in Keeping Up Appearances it is all older folks. You would NEVER see that here in the U.S.

I enjoy that show too.

Funny how we see MORE variety and experimentation from state-run TV than America's "free market" model...

I'm over 40 now and am really tired of "youth-based" shows. That stuff doesn't speak to me anymore.

Now that I think of it, I have the exact same problem with Marvel and DC. They keep trying to recast every property into younger versions. Surely I'm not the only one who would have prefered Dick Grayson remain Robin forever (but with leggings)?

[david r]

Funny how we see MORE variety and experimentation from state-run TV than America's "free market" model...

I'm over 40 now and am really tired of "youth-based" shows. That stuff doesn't speak to me anymore.


We REALLY have a problem with this in the United States. It's like no one exists over the age of 45 here. Especially our television programs, everyone is 22 and a "Beautiful Person". It grows tiresome.

America's "free market" model is just about making more $$$$$. Experimentation is a disease to them.

[Steven Grant]

I stand in support of Are You Being Served?

Now you're just being perverse...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Surely I'm not the only one who would have prefered Dick Grayson remain Robin forever (but with leggings)?

Dunno, but I know Burt Ward would have preferred Burt Ward remain Robin forever, leggings optional.

- Grant

[Lord Destiny]

Now you're just being perverse...

- Grant

Can't help it, I love the show.

Mrs. Slocomb provides us with the best description that applies to our Democratic Party... "weak as water!"

[Lord Destiny]

Dunno, but I know Burt Ward would have preferred Burt Ward remain Robin forever, leggings optional.

- Grant

In recent years I have wondered why I loved Batman so much in the 70s and 80s but haven't enjoyed it since Crisis (COIE). Looking through them, I realized...

Around 70 or so, Dick Grayson became the "teen" wonder and then left the main Batman storyline to go off to college. (Bruce also moved the Bat-HQ to downtown Wayne Foundation building.) Robin was a Teen Titan and appeared in his own solo backups.

That was the dynamic I enjoyed. Robin as a young adult.

When I look at the old Batman TV series now, THAT is pretty much how the TV show looked. Burt Ward was clearly not a 12 year old. He was a "teen" (older teen, too).

Looking back, I see that I never liked the "boy" Robin character at all...

[dancj]

the younger guy they brought in as the insane new boss was a much better character than the quasi-Fawlty boring old fart bureaucrat boss they had in the first season.
I couldn't disagree more about Chris Morris in The IT Crowd. He was great in it!

True, but both series were better than the vastly overrated Extras.
I thought Extras was great.

IMO the greatest comedy genius from britain is Benny Hill.
I was under the impression for years that the British thought Americans liked Benny Hill and Americans thought the British liked it, but no-one actually did. Now I realise it was just you,

They started playing Keeping Up Appearances here in Northern California and I sat and watched an episode. It was bloody hilarious. I now saw the whole run and wished they'd made more.
That programme was always a missed opportunity. I like a lot of the cast (especially Hyacinth's husband) and the basic concept was good, but I thought that the woman who played Hyacinth Bucket was terrible and the storied were incredibly repetitive.

[dancj]

Or Black Books
The first series of Black Books was excellent, but the second was a pale shadow of that (with the exception of the Simon Pegg episode)

[Steven Grant]

I couldn't disagree more about Chris Morris in The IT Crowd. He was great in it!

He bored the pants off me, but it was more the character than him. It was a very stock character and, thinking back, I guess, yeah, what animation there was to the character had to have come from the actor. Except for the last bit where he gets caught in the stock swindle or whatever it was. But pretty much the whole show was crap that series; The Lads might as well have been pushing around the lunch cart in the office for all their working in the IT dept. had to do with anything.

Conversely, what I liked - and bear in mind "liked" was only in comparison, not an absolute statement - about the boss character in the second series was largely in the character, not the actor. They gave the character more to do than his predecessor.

But, as I said, not an especially good show in any case... Chris Morris' character always struck me as having walked out of a Monty Python sketch...


I thought Extras was great.

The best part of Extras all the name celebrities (intentionally) making asses of themselves. The rest of the show was a bit dour, humor extra dry. It wasn't laugh out loud comedy for the most part, aside from some of the celebrities bits (like Patrick Stewart wanting to make a very high brow serious movie - that was really a Benny Hill sketch) but it wasn't bad.

- Grant

[king mob]

They started playing Keeping Up Appearances here in Northern California and I sat and watched an episode. It was bloody hilarious. I now saw the whole run and wished they'd made more.

I found it interesting how in America, most new shows are all about teens-20 year olds. And in Keeping Up Appearances it is all older folks. You would NEVER see that here in the U.S.

The BBC have it in their charter to appeal to the entire British population, & because they're not funded by advertising they don't have to appeal to a mass audience, even though they obviously do.

You might want to check out One Foot In The Grave which is about dealing with retirement & becoming a pensioner. It isn't as grim as it sounds & it's wonderfully funny.

[king mob]

The best part of Extras all the name celebrities (intentionally) making asses of themselves. The rest of the show was a bit dour, humor extra dry. It wasn't laugh out loud comedy for the most part, aside from some of the celebrities bits (like Patrick Stewart wanting to make a very high brow serious movie - that was really a Benny Hill sketch) but it wasn't bad.

- Grant

You had the edited versions in the US. We had to stand the full force of the Gervais ego over here & god, was it painful to watch, especially the final episode's rant by Gervais's character (who by this point was clearly just Gervais himself) when he was reduced to appearing on Celecrity Big Brother.

It had good moments, the Patrick Stewart bit mentioned, but it really was just Gervais trying to do American comedy like Larry Sanders or Curb Your Enthusiasm and missing the mark most of the time.

[king mob]

A couple of major names in British comedy died over the last few days. Both were hugely important for different reasons but they're huge losses.

Ken Campbell. (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/theatre/2008/09/farewell_ken_campbell.html)


Geoffrey Perkins. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7591484.stm)

[Steven Grant]

You had the edited versions in the US. We had to stand the full force of the Gervais ego over here & god, was it painful to watch, especially the final episode's rant by Gervais's character (who by this point was clearly just Gervais himself) when he was reduced to appearing on Celecrity Big Brother.

No, no, we got the rant. I don't think HBO edited anything out of the series.


It had good moments, the Patrick Stewart bit mentioned, but it really was just Gervais trying to do American comedy like Larry Sanders or Curb Your Enthusiasm and missing the mark most of the time.

No, I got that. A sort of comedy "reality" series. The final episode was pretty much crap, since in no way was Gervais' character ever set up as someone who'd muster enough real integrity to turn his back on show business and simply "be happy with himself." His epiphany - which sounded an awful lot like my (English) mother scolding new social trends - was ridiculously hollow. Really, he sounded like a disgusted lover who abruptly realized that the woman he put high on a pedestal actually has to shave her own legs, and couldn't cope with how ordinary she actually was, so he has to compensate by completely demonizing her. (I've known guys like that.)

I don't mind Gervais but I've always found his material to be obsessively middle class. Which may be why he worked better in The Office than in Extras. (And the American version of The Office is, surprisingly, often better.)

- Grant

[mattx110]

So um... anyone seen a real live copy of "Duck Patrol"?

[david r]

You might want to check out One Foot In The Grave which is about dealing with retirement & becoming a pensioner. It isn't as grim as it sounds & it's wonderfully funny.

I will look for One Foot in the Grave. I tried the BBC America channel here but it did not appeal to me. I must admit, the Keeping Up Appearances character Onslow was one of the most amusing characters I've ever seen on TV. :smile:


That programme was always a missed opportunity. I like a lot of the cast (especially Hyacinth's husband) and the basic concept was good, but I thought that the woman who played Hyacinth Bucket was terrible and the storied were incredibly repetitive.

That's cool. But if you compare KUA to most American comedies, it looks pretty amazingly funny. I don't find any American TV shows even remotely humorous. It's like they're all obsessed with 20 year old women and grade school toilet humor.

[Paul McEnery]

The first series of Black Books was excellent, but the second was a pale shadow of that (with the exception of the Simon Pegg episode)

Hmm. A little harsh, but basically fair. They start to reach too much for ideas in the second series, and it's clear that the story engine has pulled all the weight it can.

But the first series is an absolute joy.

[Paul McEnery]

I stand in support of Are You Being Served?

Funny, likable characters all around (particularly the early seasons).

Helluva lot funnier than the vast majority of sitcoms I've seen made in America the past 25 years. So even when the Brits are mediocre, it's better than what American networks are churning out.

I'm with you. It's been done to death by constant repetition in the states, but yeah, the moral vacuum everyone in the cast lives in is marvellous, and it was really quite radical in its day.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Hmm. A little harsh, but basically fair. They start to reach too much for ideas in the second series, and it's clear that the story engine has pulled all the weight it can.

But the first series is an absolute joy.

I disagree with the assessment on the story engine - I believe there were different writers or producers involved on the second season, which is why it went in some odd places.
That said, I don't think it fell too far, and recovered well enough for the third season.


(And the American version of The Office is, surprisingly, often better.)

- Grant

Really?

I mean... really?

Maybe if you like comedy more over the top, and less feels like you standing in the room awkward... but beyond that, what's it got?
It just feels like any other sitcom.

[Pip]

My favorite of the more current comedy shows would be The Mighty Boosh, Peep Show and the very strange League Of Gentlemen, all three are very, very good

[OzBat!]

The Goodies have recently done two tours to Australia, where they remain absolutely huge. They were compulsory viewing when I was a kid. And they've finally started bringing out restored versions on DVD, so I've been inflicting them on my kids. Favourites include the Pirate Radio Station, the Five minute Christmas special, Bunfight at the OK Tea Rooms, and Ecchy Thump! I'm really hoping the third DVD set includes the clowns/tomato soup episode and the space bunnies.

[Mermaid]

I think British Comedy is amongst the best in the world. I always try and seek out the English shows on ABC here.

I've been reading back through the thread, and everytime you guys mention another show I think "oh yes!!, that one was sooo good" and I can never remember anymore, and then someone will post another one and i'm like "Hell Yeah!! but doh! why didn't I remember that one!" :tongue: :rolleyes:

Having said all that, anyone remember Rising Damp? That used to make me laugh, very rarely see that show now though, I think its because unlike some shows, it has dated a fair bit

(can't stand the Goodies though *shudder* I don't like slapstick or jsut plain silly gags )

[dancj]

I disagree with the assessment on the story engine - I believe there were different writers or producers involved on the second season, which is why it went in some odd places.
That said, I don't think it fell too far, and recovered well enough for the third season.
Yeah - One of the co-writers left. That said my memory's obviously hazy because I thought there were only two series' of Black Books, but the Gloiath Books episode is actually from the third series.

[Mermaid]

Love Black Books! Have the box set, and never tire of seeing it. All three of the them work really well together. I'm hoping to see Bill Bailey live when he tours here soon.

[Charles RB]

Reading last week's column, I've decided what Spooks Code 9 needs is a laughter track inserted into the episodes. Then I shall watch it and probably love it to bits.

[Steven Grant]

Really?

I mean... really?

Maybe if you like comedy more over the top, and less feels like you standing in the room awkward... but beyond that, what's it got?
It just feels like any other sitcom.

Yes, actually. I mean, it's not ridiculously better, but the humor, not to mention the structure, is actually more complex, and sometimes more subtle, if not quite as deadpan. (That's a big flaw in Gervais, for my money: he tends to think deadpan and subtle are the same thing.) And the American version answers one question that always bugged the hell out of me about the English one: there's no way in hell that Brent would ever last in his job, and I never believed that short of some sort of nuclear holocaust that left him as the only possible candidate that he ever would have gotten his job in the first place. By contrast, we see Michael Scott in the American version - who has fewer brains than a chimpanzee when it comes to dealing with his staff - interface with clients on several occasions, and the first time it's very funny because he completely baffles our expectations, since he turns out to be really good at it. He's not intelligent good, they don't really pull the traditional American trick where the clown is really a prince after all, but he connects with clients because he can speak their shallow, self-obsessed language, seemingly doing everything wrong as sales are traditionally thought to proceed, and still walks away with the sale. Mind you, I'd rather watch Ricky Gervais than Steve Carell any day of the week, but the English THE OFFICE was only one real joke - David Brent is a totally talentless self-unaware twit who fancies himself the greatest undiscovered entertainer in the universe - spread out over two series and a special with a butterknife. And it wasn't especially subtle, though it occasionally had subtle bits in it; the humor derived from Brent being so over the top and in your face that half the time you laugh out of sheer disbelief. Which is fine, but by the time the show left I was really ready to see it go, since by then it was beating all its notes for the umpteenth time without anything new. And I suspect the American THE OFFICE has likewise played out all its potential now, and I wouldn't especially mind seeing that series pack it in as well.

But the American version uses the British version as a jumping off point. Yes, aspects are much more traditional American sitcom - they almost have to be, in order to continue over time, and that's one of the great blessings of many Britshows, they can call it a day if they feel like it - but much of it has been much more inventive than Gervais' show ever was past the initial idea. In that aspect, Gervais' version (as well as EXTRAS) comes out of the British dance hall tradition as well; it develops its motif very quickly, then repeats the elements over and over and over through the length of its run, with minor variations. Aside from the progression of the Tim and Dawn romance, pretty much everything in the show returns to zero on the counter at the beginning of every episode. In some ways, it's a much better version of the show Andy Millman creates and stars in in EXTRAS. So is EXTRAS, for that matter, with Gervais tapping into the British social drama tradition for that as well...

Bear in mind none of this is meant to be a negative commentary on either show. They're just observations. For workplace comedies, I'll still take NEWSRADIO over either version of THE OFFICE...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Reading last week's column, I've decided what Spooks Code 9 needs is a laughter track inserted into the episodes. Then I shall watch it and probably love it to bits.

Wait, it doesn't have a laugh track?! I'd swear it has a laugh track. I remember a laugh track. Are you sure?

Oh. No, sorry, that was just me laughing...

- Grant

[Paul McEnery]

My favorite of the more current comedy shows would be The Mighty Boosh, Peep Show and the very strange League Of Gentlemen, all three are very, very good

Mighty Boosh is beyond excellent.

The radio version is even better, though.

[Charles RB]

especially the final episode's rant by Gervais's character (who by this point was clearly just Gervais himself) when he was reduced to appearing on Celecrity Big Brother.

I think Gervais would have to be full of self-loathing and hating his career if Andy was meant to be him in the final episode.


the very strange League Of Gentlemen, all three are very, very good

I've tried explaining League to Americans. The general response is "...WHAT?", especially when I bring up Papa Lazarous.

[Charles RB]

Wait, it doesn't have a laugh track?! I'd swear it has a laugh track. I remember a laugh track. Are you sure?

Oh. No, sorry, that was just me laughing...

- Grant

We'll tap it and dub it in for the Remastered DVD.

[Pip]

I think British Comedy is amongst the best in the world. I always try and seek out the English shows on ABC here.

I've been reading back through the thread, and everytime you guys mention another show I think "oh yes!!, that one was sooo good" and I can never remember anymore, and then someone will post another one and i'm like "Hell Yeah!! but doh! why didn't I remember that one!" :tongue: :rolleyes:

Having said all that, anyone remember Rising Damp? That used to make me laugh, very rarely see that show now though, I think its because unlike some shows, it has dated a fair bit

(can't stand the Goodies though *shudder* I don't like slapstick or jsut plain silly gags )

rising damp is still funny as is Steptoe and Son another classic

[king mob]

Yeah - One of the co-writers left.

Arthur Matthews had a huge bust up with Graham Linehan which didn't help the programme at all.

[king mob]

Reading last week's column, I've decided what Spooks Code 9 needs is a laughter track inserted into the episodes. Then I shall watch it and probably love it to bits.

I hate people who say 'that programme was so bloody awful I want my license fee back' as there's nothing that bad.

Until the double whammy of Spooks: Code 9 & Bonekickers; two programmes so astonishingly bad and genuinely insulting to the viewer that it makes me think that they were trying to be ironic in making shows as bad as these.

So basically, I want my license fee back that went into paying these these two bags of shite.

[king mob]

I think Gervais would have to be full of self-loathing and hating his career if Andy was meant to be him in the final episode.

By the final episode Gervais and Millman are one and the same, so it does make one consider just what Gervais was thinking of. The fact that Gervais has naffed off to America & left his British career behind him speaks volumes.

What is facinating to watch is the Gervais/Garry Shandling interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUgn86_T6SA)that Channel 4 showed a few years ago. It's hideously painful to watch but it is worth it.

[Charles RB]

...Bonekickers?!


By the final episode Gervais and Millman are one and the same, so it does make one consider just what Gervais was thinking of

Based on Millman's actions, "I am a self-loathing jerk who lashes out at things because I'm unhappy with my own failures and would rather be famous than good, even though I feel disappointed with myself when I go for the former *shoots self in head*".

[king mob]

...Bonekickers?!

Oh yes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonekickers) A programme so bad one actually has to see it to believe it is actually as awful as everyone says it is.

[Charles RB]

What?!


Adrian Lester has described the programme as "CSI meets Indiana Jones

What?!


the revelation that Viv and Gillian are related,Viv was put up for adoption by Gillian's mother Karen and this has been kept secret

What?!


Developers discover an Arab coin (dirhem) on ground marked for a housing development. The archaeological team find this mysterious as the site is a very long way from the Crusades. The subsequent adventure involves modern Knights Templar, a fanatically racist Christian evangelist and the True Cross.

What?!


This leads to the discovery of the true arsonist, responsible for the Great Fire of Rome, and to a love affair concerning Boudicca herself.

What?!


Week five dropped to 3.8 million... The series debuted to broadly negative reviews.

Shock.

[Mermaid]

rising damp is still funny as is Steptoe and Son another classic


Yep, agreed. Wasn't that Harry Corbett and William someone? I could google but i'm feeling lazy. I still laugh at that show though. Occasionally there'll be a episode on tv for some reason.

Anyone know Game On? I used to quite like that. Made in the 90's, not that popular a show maybe, but i liked it.

[Libaax]

He wasn't, well he wasn't by the time he went to ITV and became huge across the world. His BBC work he did in the 60's (much of which doesn't exist anymore) is very good indeed, but by the time he started the ITV programme's he was churning out tired old gags that were horribly sexist & just not very funny.

Hill's ITV shows in the 70's have dated very badly as well & really don't hold up, which is why it's a pity his 60's stuff is virtually gone.



Coupling is ok, but it's getting a lot of fuss, not to mention a decent DVD release due to Stephen Moffat becoming the head writer of Doctor Who.

Over here i think they showed his 60s stuff you could see the difference in the jokes,the look and i saw the latter work wasnt as good but overall it was great.


If you know anything similar to Coupling but better let me know because i loved watching that kind of humor.

[Steven Grant]

By the final episode Gervais and Millman are one and the same, so it does make one consider just what Gervais was thinking of. The fact that Gervais has naffed off to America & left his British career behind him speaks volumes.

I just read about that yesterday. (Keeping up on Ricky's movements isn't exactly a passion of mine.) I read his take on American and British film as, "British producers won't pay for squat, but in Hollywood you can make oodles to appear in films." What he was raving up as the best script he ever read was a marginally better than average comedy screenplay.

But that's why most British actors of any renown move to Hollywood: gobs more money than in the British film industry, where they're apparently supposed to just be grateful that people will call them film artists...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Based on Millman's actions, "I am a self-loathing jerk who lashes out at things because I'm unhappy with my own failures and would rather be famous than good, even though I feel disappointed with myself when I go for the former *shoots self in head*".

Um... no... that's the rest of the series. By the end, Andy has become an artiste who would rather be good than famous, completely disgusted with the commercialized, ego-infested, self-serving and soul-killing swampland of the British entertainment industries, where actors become little more than dancing puppets whose sole purpose to existence is to be living punch-n-judy shows and who become addicted to and desperate for the roar and recognition of the crowd, and that's the only value they place on their lives and their talents. He walks away from all that rather than put up with it for one more minute. That's the part where he morphs into "Ricky Gervais." And leaves Andy Millman behind.

- Grant

[dancj]

In some ways, it's a much better version of the show Andy Millman creates and stars in in EXTRAS.
I always saw that show as being what The Office could have been if Ricky Gervais hadn't stuck to his guns about how to make it.

I also suspect it might be inspired by Dinner Ladies. I don't know if you saw it in America, but it was a Victoria Wood (don't know if you know her either) sitcom set in a canteen. It did have some fans, but it was basically a really bad old-fashioned sitcom filmed in front of a studio audience that is very reminiscent of Andy Millman's sitcom.

The thing is I saw Victoria Wood talking about it once and she said her original plans were it to be filmed without an audience and with the bustle of work going on around all the time giving it a feel closer to ER, but budget constraints and other things forced it to be done more like a traditional sitcom.

[dancj]

Anyone know Game On? I used to quite like that. Made in the 90's, not that popular a show maybe, but i liked it.
I loved Game On. Not it the same league as Coupling, but probably the closest thing I can think of off-hand. IIRC the second series was the best one.

[Mermaid]

I always saw that show as being what The Office could have been if Ricky Gervais hadn't stuck to his guns about how to make it.

I also suspect it might be inspired by Dinner Ladies. I don't know if you saw it in America, but it was a Victoria Wood (don't know if you know her either) sitcom set in a canteen. It did have some fans, but it was basically a really bad old-fashioned sitcom filmed in front of a studio audience that is very reminiscent of Andy Millman's sitcom.

The thing is I saw Victoria Wood talking about it once and she said her original plans were it to be filmed without an audience and with the bustle of work going on around all the time giving it a feel closer to ER, but budget constraints and other things forced it to be done more like a traditional sitcom.


Oh yes Dinner Ladies! See that's another one i'd forgotton about.....oh too many good ones! ....for some odd reason the Brittus (sp?) Empire jsut popped into my head too....remember that one? About the manager of a Sports Centre who was completely incompetent and his long suffering wife who was a mess, and the receptionist who kept her baby in the reception desk draw, lol.
The manager was in Red Dwarf and played the hologram.


I loved Game On. Not it the same league as Coupling, but probably the closest thing I can think of off-hand. IIRC the second series was the best one.

Coupling was indeed very good...and yes, that was similar to Game On.

That Robson Green's been in a fair few comedy's too. Did you see that Christmas one about the Christmas lights and the feud with the neighbours? Not actually a series but yep.... :redface: :tongue:

[thehod]

Channel 4 had a rather enjoyable, if rather crude comedy recently called The Inbetweeners, which I found midly enjoyable.

It still has a country mile to go to beat out Porridge though.

[Charles RB]

for some odd reason the Brittus (sp?) Empire jsut popped into my head too....remember that one?

That show could get pretty vicious when it wanted to - Brittas' wife attempts murder and gets away scot-free due to an accidental campaign of escalating chaos at the victim in Series 5...

[dancj]

for some odd reason the Brittus (sp?) Empire jsut popped into my head too....remember that one? About the manager of a Sports Centre who was completely incompetent and his long suffering wife who was a mess, and the receptionist who kept her baby in the reception desk draw, lol.

The Brittas Empire went on a bit too long, but series two or three was excellent.

[redben]

And the American version answers one question that always bugged the hell out of me about the English one: there's no way in hell that Brent would ever last in his job, and I never believed that short of some sort of nuclear holocaust that left him as the only possible candidate that he ever would have gotten his job in the first place.

I'm assuming you haven't worked in an office, or maybe its just a British thing.



Aside from the progression of the Tim and Dawn romance, pretty much everything in the show returns to zero on the counter at the beginning of every episode.

Isn't that common to sitcoms as a whole? They present you with a situation and then mine it repeatedly for comedy. I don't recall The Young Ones or Fawlty Towers having any real progression. You could the episodes in any order.


I'd echo the people who have mentioned Peep Show, definitely the best British sitcom of the last few years (though it may be starting to outstay its welcome).

[Mermaid]

I'm assuming you haven't worked in an office, or maybe its just a British thing.




ha ha! absolutely! There's a zillion "Brent's" working (or doing a bad impression of working) in offices all over Britain. funny as!

[david r]

Is there a TV Land type channel in Britain? You know, which only plays older, classic shows from television's glorious past. Here in America, TV Land broadcasts I Love Lucy, Andy Griffith Show, Gunsmoke, Leave it to Beaver, etc.

[Charles RB]

We got UK Gold.

[bartl]

I'm assuming you haven't worked in an office, or maybe its just a British thing.
I don't know the British version, but in the United States, they made it clear that it was the Peter Principle at work; that Michael Scott was, in fact, a top-notch salesman, so he got promoted to the level of his incompetence.

[Steven Grant]

I'm assuming you haven't worked in an office, or maybe its just a British thing.

That would explain the Empire, I guess...

- Grant