DCU: Last Will & Testament *SPOILERS*

[Seraku]

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=21731

one of the many stories from the issue, Geo-Force has a chat with Black Lightning and has some flashbacks.

presumably takes place around the time the ALE is sent as all power is cut off from the planet

[Sean Walsh]

Nice job by Adam Kubert here.

.....makes me wonder now who the hell drew that Kevin Smith Batman cover from the November solicits, because that could not have been Kubert (who's credited).

[ducklord]

My Outsiders trivia may be dimming a bit, but isn't Geo-Force married? I could also swear that he was now the King of his fictional little country...

Of course, if Black Lightning can get retconned into having not one, but two daughters that we never heard about for the first 25+ years of his publishing history, I guess a disappearing wife isn't such a big deal...

Mike.

[Oblivion87]

Looks like an interesting issue, I hope I get a chance to pick it up.

[Sean Walsh]

My Outsiders trivia may be dimming a bit, but isn't Geo-Force married? I could also swear that he was now the King of his fictional little country...

This is DC Comics.

Lord knows how many times poor Denise Howard-Markov has been raped, killed and stuffed in a refridgerator.

[van_line]

SPOILERS














What is Metzler (sp?) legacy going to be at DC?

Raping Sue, and having Geo-Force cut his own throat? I know that GF is a 3rd stringer at best, but is that really in character for him?

[CBikle]

It kind of is.

Obscure super-characters from small fictitious European countries always seem to have some sort of ill-defined code of honor/retribution custom.

Also, he thought it was the end of the world, so he figured he might as well go out on his terms instead of Slade's.

[WorstThingUS]

Okay, I only glanced at this in the store, but was it decent? I hate Meltzer with a passion because bad characterization and plot holes aside, he's never quite grasped that he's working in a visual medium and that you don't need four pages of talking to explain what one good panel would do. But given this isn't about action but people ruminating on life so it might actually work for him.

And even though it in no way closes the gigantic gaping hole that Nightwing has never gone after Deathstroke for destroying Bludhaven (iIt's like Batman not going after The Joker for blowing up Gotham) it's about time someone did and took him down, so there's that bit of satisfaction.

[Sean Walsh]

As much as I defend Meltzer, or at least stick by his stuff when others bash him, and as much as I enjoyed this comic quite a lot, "Shouldn't you be home with your parents?" is one of the worst gaffes I've ever seen in a comic book.


Ahem.....


BATMAN *IS* HIS PARENT NOW!!!! YOU KINDA MADE HIM THAT WHEN YOU KILLED JACK DRAKE, BRAD!!!!


Please to be firing the editor of this comic, DC, for letting that one saunter through the editorial process with enough room to twirl a cane...

[HouseSolo]

Wow, a lot of hate towards the book so far. I absolutely loved it. Then again, I think I need to reread the last Final Crisis issue, because I don't remember Clark talking about it being the end of the world, or it suddenly being permanent night, or anything like that at all.

[WorstThingUS]

As much as I defend Meltzer, or at least stick by his stuff when others bash him, and as much as I enjoyed this comic quite a lot, "Shouldn't you be home with your parents?" is one of the worst gaffes I've ever seen in a comic book.


Ahem.....


BATMAN *IS* HIS PARENT NOW!!!! YOU KINDA MADE HIM THAT WHEN YOU KILLED JACK DRAKE, BRAD!!!!


Please to be firing the editor of this comic, DC, for letting that one saunter through the editorial process with enough room to twirl a cane...

Okay, so it's the same old crap from him? And you're an actual fan. Good to know.

Wow, a lot of hate towards the book so far. I absolutely loved it. Then again, I think I need to reread the last Final Crisis issue, because I don't remember Clark talking about it being the end of the world, or it suddenly being permanent night, or anything like that at all.

Yeah, does anyone know when Superman of all people started screaming "the end is nigh" like a crazy man in the street.

[IamtheRock3]

so umm whats the current status of Deathstroke then

[WorstThingUS]

so umm whats the current status of Deathstroke then

I remember "he's breathing through tubes" from Black Lightning, though Slade's healing factor should take care of that. I mean wasn't he just run through with his own sword by his son in Teen Titans? You'd think he'd get that special handle Blade had in the movies by now.

[HouseSolo]

Yeah, does anyone know when Superman of all people started screaming "the end is nigh" like a crazy man in the street.

Ya, that's what I'm saying. I don't remember anything like that at all, haha.

[The Lucky One]

As much as I defend Meltzer, or at least stick by his stuff when others bash him, and as much as I enjoyed this comic quite a lot, "Shouldn't you be home with your parents?" is one of the worst gaffes I've ever seen in a comic book.

Okay, that explains it. (Sorta.) I just skimmed the issue in the store, but when I saw that speech balloon, I couldn't figure out whether Bruce was talking to Dick or Tim. Not that it matters either way since both sets of 'rents are dead, but I've been intermittently checking different websites since yesterday trying to figure out if Dick's parents somehow got magically resurrected or something recently.

So it wasn't just me, then. Good to know.

-D

[Hawkman]

I read this in the shop because I refuse to pay for anything Meltzer writes sight unseen after his Justice League run, and while the continuity gaffes didn't bother me like they did a lot of other folks, unsurprisingly, I still wasn't impressed. Just a very bland issue, I felt, where nothing of any consequence actually happens. Looked like it might towards the end there, but didn't.

It also didn't help that some of Meltzer's writing habits that grate on my nerves were present either, color-coded caption boxes and all. And of course, who can forget his trademark of using first names at all times between characters? I recall two instances offhand of people referring to Batman as "Bruce" where it felt awkward, one being Black Lightning to Geo-Force near the beginning, and the other being Robin to Batman himself while they're outside on a rooftop. I mean really, is it that hard to type out "Batman" instead?

The only thing that really did it for me was the exchange between Clark and Pa Kent. That was a nice two pages, I admit, but two pages alone isn't worth the $4 to me. So far it's the first Final Crisis tie-in that was a letdown, and I do consider it a FC tie-in. Every interview concerning the book beforehand alluded that it would be taking place between issues #3 and #4. Just because editorial didn't give Meltzer a bigger heads-up of what the characters' current predicaments were at the time this issue was supposed to take place, I'm not going to write it off as being some special that just happened to be released during FC and nothing more.

[van_line]

Okay, that explains it. (Sorta.) I just skimmed the issue in the store, but when I saw that speech balloon, I couldn't figure out whether Bruce was talking to Dick or Tim. Not that it matters either way since both sets of 'rents are dead, but I've been intermittently checking different websites since yesterday trying to figure out if Dick's parents somehow got magically resurrected or something recently.

So it wasn't just me, then. Good to know.

-D

He was talking to Dick and Dick's parents are still dead. The pages before were of Starfire waiting at Dick's parent's grave so that they could hook up. She expected him to show up at the grave and so did Batman.

[Sean Walsh]

Okay, that explains it. (Sorta.) I just skimmed the issue in the store, but when I saw that speech balloon, I couldn't figure out whether Bruce was talking to Dick or Tim. Not that it matters either way since both sets of 'rents are dead, but I've been intermittently checking different websites since yesterday trying to figure out if Dick's parents somehow got magically resurrected or something recently.

So it wasn't just me, then. Good to know.

I even checked Wikipedia before I posted my comment, but even that confirmed that Bruce was now Tim's adoptive father (Bruce offered after ID Crisis but Tim lived with his uncle instead for a while - Tim later accepted, though; I'm guessing when the uncle died or something...)

Also - why would Supes and Bats even be part of this story, since by the time "night falls" in FINAL CRISIS they're both MIA (Supes zinging around the multiverse in SUPERMAN BEYOND, and Bats is a prisoner of Granny and Co.)

.......*headaches*.....

[Sean Walsh]

He was talking to Dick and Dick's parents are still dead. The pages before were of Starfire waiting at Dick's parent's grave so that they could hook up. She expected him to show up at the grave and so did Batman.

.......ah, and it's here that my initial complaint falls apart, I think.

Good. :smile:

[van_line]

.......ah, and it's here that my initial complaint falls apart, I think.

Good. :smile:


I am not a big fan of metzler but there is no way, he wouldn't know that Tim was an orphan since he killed daddy drake in Identity Crisis.

[titanfan]

The Geo Force vs. Deathstroke storyline--FREAKING' AWESOME! Arguably the best stuff Meltz has written for DC ever.

The rest of it: meh. Some good, some bad. Some weirdo continuity stuff.

[HouseSolo]

The only thing that really did it for me was the exchange between Clark and Pa Kent. That was a nice two pages, I admit, but two pages alone isn't worth the $4 to me. So

Couldn't agree more. Well, not about the "only" part, but those were easily the best two pages of the entire book.

[Tanjint]

so the 'scratchier' pages were drawn by Joe Kubert right? Like the two page batman/robin spread for example?

and the 'cleaner' looking stuff was adam?

i really like both styles.

this was good but

a)supes should be in beyond
b)bats is captive
c)geo-force is such a ridiculous 3rd stringer....Meltzer's whole damn DC comics career has been a case of using big characters to drawing us into some personal ass story about a C-lister we could give a damn about.



the art is fantastic though

and even though it makes no sense the batman/superman moments are cool.

but what do you think tim meant when he said he could see Bruce's conversion?

and later on when we see Nightwing and Bruce joining hands why does Tim look all pissed in the background while Geo-force ruminates about distancing yourself from your friends and family?

-T

[van_line]

so the 'scratchier' pages were drawn by Joe Kubert right? Like the two page batman/robin spread for example?

and the 'cleaner' looking stuff was adam?

i really like both styles.

this was good but

a)supes should be in beyond
b)bats is captive
c)geo-force is such a ridiculous 3rd stringer....Meltzer's whole damn DC comics career has been a case of using big characters to drawing us into some personal ass story about a C-lister we could give a damn about.



the art is fantastic though

and even though it makes no sense the batman/superman moments are cool.

but what do you think tim meant when he said he could see Bruce's conversion?

and later on when we see Nightwing and Bruce joining hands why does Tim look all pissed in the background while Geo-force ruminates about distancing yourself from your friends and family?

-T


Superman Beyond is happening during a pause in time.

[CBikle]

a)supes should be in beyond
b)bats is captive


Eddie Berganza and Adam Schlagman are the editors for both FC and Last Will, so I don't really get why stuff like this keeps happening.

Especially with Berganza.


c)geo-force is such a ridiculous 3rd stringer....Meltzer's whole damn DC comics career has been a case of using big characters to drawing us into some personal ass story about a C-lister we could give a damn about.



Nah, Geo-Force has some nostalgia-cred and the story lent itself to him because of the whole Terra-connection.

[4thHorseman]

I actually enjoyed this issue. I like the human moments that Meltzer seems to capture better than most writers. He may not get the superheroics down all that well, but I still find ways to enjoy it.

I might be remembering wrong, but on the same page where it said the sun hasn't come out in two days, was there a small panel with a sunset/rise on the right side? And wasn't the sun out during the Clark/Pa conversation? Might be recalling wrong, but that's what keeps coming up in my head.

Though I did like the different art takes throughout the issue. They seemed to try to give a certain vibe for the characters. Superman was drawn like he was during Adam's run on Action, the Geo-Force scenes seemed similar to Benes', and Captain Cold scene seemed to be influenced off of Kolin's work in the Rogues book.

[Paul McEnery]

I even checked Wikipedia before I posted my comment, but even that confirmed that Bruce was now Tim's adoptive father (Bruce offered after ID Crisis but Tim lived with his uncle instead for a while - Tim later accepted, though; I'm guessing when the uncle died or something...)

Also - why would Supes and Bats even be part of this story, since by the time "night falls" in FINAL CRISIS they're both MIA (Supes zinging around the multiverse in SUPERMAN BEYOND, and Bats is a prisoner of Granny and Co.)

.......*headaches*.....

And Wonder Warthog, too.

[titanfan]

c)geo-force is such a ridiculous 3rd stringer....Meltzer's whole damn DC comics career has been a case of using big characters to drawing us into some personal ass story about a C-lister we could give a damn about.


Nothing wrong with that--as long as it's working. Someone has to care about the C-Listers too.

[Adam C]

Wait, the big three are in it when by all rights they should be MIA as far as the other heroes are concerned? Oh dear, oh dear. It seems that Metzler not only dropped the ball continuity wise, but thematically. Morrison very clearly, and systematically took the Big Seven out in the first three issues of Final Crisis because they would be logical targets of the Gods, and to show how bad things are. (Except for Aquaman, who was effectively out of the picture to begin with. Sure we have the new guy, but no one knows what he's about.) Really their absence should be the big elephant in the room underscoring how bad things are.

[Adam C]

Wait, the big three are in it when by all rights they should be MIA as far as the other heroes are concerned? Oh dear, oh dear. It seems that Metzler not only dropped the ball continuity wise...

Actually, why am I putting this on Metzler. It's already clear that there's some systematic communication problems going on at DC, and this just drives it home.

[Paul McEnery]

Actually, why am I putting this on Metzler. It's already clear that there's some systematic communication problems going on at DC, and this just drives it home.

Not that the idea wasn't straight out of the cheese factory anyway.

In that interview with Grant, he talks about how DC wanted to put all these add-ons on top of his story. This is certainly the least necessary of all the superfluous product so far.

[HouseSolo]

Not that the idea wasn't straight out of the cheese factory anyway.

In that interview with Grant, he talks about how DC wanted to put all these add-ons on top of his story. This is certainly the least necessary of all the superfluous product so far.

Might not have been necessary at all, but it was still a very good issue. I'm surprised it's getting so much hate. Well, I guess not, for some reason a lot of people seem to hate Meltzer. I've always like his stuff.

[Tanjint]

it's a cool issue but i'm mentally extricating from FC.

i think DC did too which is why it doesn't say final crisis on it. this makes sense, we could just look at it as a hypothetical story that happens on some night where everyone in the DC thinks they're gonna die the next day

-T

[40footwolf]

While I wasn't a fan of the issue on the whole, I will say that the image of Geo-Force slitting his own throat might be one of the best single panels I've ever seen in a comic book.

[joint venture]

While I wasn't a fan of the issue on the whole, I will say that the image of Geo-Force slitting his own throat might be one of the best single panels I've ever seen in a comic book.

I prefer Slade stabbed with his own sword in a "bird's eye point of view" illustration.
amazing panel, silent and emotional. he gave in, he lost. sheeesh...

[Tanjint]

my little sis(14) just read this and loved it.

i liked it alot, but she was really blown away. she's a bigger titans fan than I am though. i like titans alot too but i only really care about the a-list while she really likes them all

-T

[40footwolf]

I prefer Slade stabbed with his own sword in a "bird's eye point of view" illustration.
amazing panel, silent and emotional. he gave in, he lost. sheeesh...
That one was also excellent.

But there was just something in Brion's face as he was killing himself that's just incredibly haunting.

[Brian Cronin]

.......ah, and it's here that my initial complaint falls apart, I think.

Good. :smile:

You are correct.

But don't worry, that made me do a double take, too, until I realized he meant Dick's parents' graves.

-Brian

[Sean Walsh]

You are correct.

But don't worry, that made me do a double take, too, until I realized he meant Dick's parents' graves.

I swear he was looking at Tim when he said that. And didn't the initial caption say "Batman and Robin"? I guess Brad was covered more than 1 Robin...


...and did anyone else not see the Joe Kubert credit on the cover and just assume Adam was drawing certain pages very differently?

This is what Sean gets for reading comics at work...

[Sean Walsh]

In that interview with Grant, he talks about how DC wanted to put all these add-ons on top of his story. This is certainly the least necessary of all the superfluous product so far.

It wasn't the pinnacle that was REQUIEM, but it was good and had nice art...

[bjtrdff]

Never mind, I saw the parents graves correction already.

[Dark Master]

So it's confirmed to be Bruce in this issue, so how does this not contradict R.I.P?

[Dark Master]

I did like the "I'm not super, or amazing, or uncanny." They should've thrown in "incredible" too. lol

[SeritoNiN]

I liked this one-shot a lot. My favorite part was the one page featuring Mr. Cold (liked it so much I had to change my avatar)

He becomes a hero for a split second

Paraphrasing here ...

"what did it feel like?"

"Same rush as always, but then you leave with nothing....and who the hell wants to live a life like that"

Brilliant!

[Seraku]

Aside from his Green Arrow run, this is my favorite thing Meltzers ever done.

[IvCNuB4]

So it's confirmed to be Bruce in this issue, so how does this not contradict R.I.P?

It doesn't. Morrison explains it here (http://comics.ign.com/articles/902/902992p6.html) ...

[Dark Master]

Yeah he gave a very vauge explanation.

[kalorama]

Nothing wrong with that--as long as it's working.

And therein lies the problem.

[Xero]

Most people seem to have missed the huge reveal in this issue, Deathstroke gave Terra and Geo-Force their powers.

And Deathstroke has a plan.

[Adam C]

Yeah he gave a very vauge explanation.

Vague? I'm not sure how. As Morrison said, RIP takes place before FC, and it is Bruce Wayne we see in the cowl in FC.

[Dark Master]

Yes but that ruins R.I.P because we know Bruce is still Batman,

[Seraku]

the events of RIP and FC both lead up to the likely retirement of Bruce Wayne

[AbsurdistEmergence]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this issue. I think I enjoyed it. I feel like I enjoyed it. I am not a hound for continuity, so that doesn't bother me. I sort of felt that Geo-force and Slade should have died though. It felt anti-climatic in that way. Overall, it was a story about a character I really don't care about though. I feel like Meltzer has tried to show why I should like this character, but I just don't care.

For me, the Lightening Saga really showed how much of a better writer Johns is compared to Meltzer and I think this story shows it again. Johns has been able, over his career, to take seemingly uninteresting characters and breathe life in them and make them sympathetic. This is something I never got from Meltzer’s Geo-Force. Although, saying Johns is a better writer than Meltzer is like declaring an apple red. I don't mean to slag Meltzer though because I think he's a decent enough writer.

[Mon-el]

This was the very first Meltzer comic that I actually didn't enjoy.

I bought it for the reasons of Barry/Wally, Dick/Bruce, Clark Kent/Pa Kent interactions, and I got hardly if any of those. Now I like Geo-Force, but this issue was the main focus was on him, and it was yet again another Deathstroke fight (I'm so bored with Deathstroke it's not even funny at this point anymore).

So I was heavily let down after reading this issue.

The one thing that I didn't expect though and I quite enjoyed reading about was that of Rocky got some panel time.

[Tanjint]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this issue. I think I enjoyed it. I feel like I enjoyed it. I am not a hound for continuity, so that doesn't bother me. I sort of felt that Geo-force and Slade should have died though. It felt anti-climatic in that way. Overall, it was a story about a character I really don't care about though. I feel like Meltzer has tried to show why I should like this character, but I just don't care.

For me, the Lightening Saga really showed how much of a better writer Johns is compared to Meltzer and I think this story shows it again. Johns has been able, over his career, to take seemingly uninteresting characters and breathe life in them and make them sympathetic. This is something I never got from Meltzer’s Geo-Force. Although, saying Johns is a better writer than Meltzer is like declaring an apple red. I don't mean to slag Meltzer though because I think he's a decent enough writer.


Over-all I liked this issue but I pretty much agree with all your points here.


well I'm kind of a continuity hound, but I can over-look that for a good story. I think I'm more of a self-no-prize giver than a continuity hound now that I think about it.

Sequencing/time-space fabrication of a fictional universe IS important to me in my comics, but I don't really always need the writers to do it for me. I like to connect the dots and fix it in my head, give my self a no-prize and move on.

for example, Last will and testament doesn't mention final crisis anywhere on or in the book....we can just look at is a story, maybe not even in canon, where the way most DCU characters would handle their last night alive(as far as they know) is depicted.


-T

[blckng]

but what do you think tim meant when he said he could see Bruce's conversion?

and later on when we see Nightwing and Bruce joining hands why does Tim look all pissed in the background while Geo-force ruminates about distancing yourself from your friends and family?
He wrote Tim as jealous of Dick and his relationship with Bruce.

I don't really get it, though. I mean, Bruce had been Dick's older brother/father figure since he was a child, but Tim had his real father until fairly recently. The idea that Tim would be jealous feels somewhat disrespectful to Jack Drake's memory.

[the4thpip]

I hadn't read anything about this book up front, and I first thought this was an "imaginary tale" - a bit like Marvel's "The End" books. All right, a lot like Marvel's The End books.

The connection with Final Crisis was so vague (muddled by continuity problems, to boot!) that I didn't realize this was supposed to be in continuity until the very end, when they say "follow the adventures of Geo Force in Batman and the Outsiders!
.
Heck, Wonder Woman and Donna sure seemed more like parallel universe variants than their current counterparts. Wonder Woman knows nothing about love? wtf?

[Superboy-Prime]

the events of RIP and FC both lead up to the likely retirement of Bruce Wayne


doubt it. Bruce isn't dying nor retiring. I think we're going to see a new Almagam of Bruce Wayne, A fresh New Batman.

[Buried Alien]

doubt it. Bruce isn't dying nor retiring. I think we're going to see a new Almagam of Bruce Wayne, A fresh New Batman.

But if that's the case, what would Gaiman's WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE CAPED CRUSADER and O'Neil's BATTLE FOR THE COWL be about? :confused:

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[mofo]

i liked this issue and all but...

1) the geo-force talking to black lighntning and the priest (forgot his name) before going out to deathstroke came out as a lame attempt to add "depth" to the story
2) am i the only one who's getting tired of clark kent running to his parents every other week saying "what if i cant do it?" or some crap? you love your paretns, fine we get it, BUT GROW UP YOU FOOL! YOU'RE THE GODDAMN SUPERMAN! YOU CANNOT DIE*!

[Tanjint]

But if that's the case, what would Gaiman's WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE CAPED CRUSADER and O'Neil's BATTLE FOR THE COWL be about? :confused:

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

whatever happened to the man of tomorrow? didn't mean superman wasn't going to be clark kent afterwards


also, i think o'neil is doing a two issue retrospective before gaiman does his two issue 'whatever happened?' but i don't think o'neil's retrospective was 'battle for the cowl'

and i think someone else, hopefully and probably Dick will be Batman for a while after FC while Bruce is in arkham ( a fulfillment of ideas Morrison heavily played with in his VERY first bat-story: arkham asylum) for a while and will end up redeeming himself and being batman again eventually

-T

[Buried Alien]

whatever happened to the man of tomorrow? didn't mean superman wasn't going to be clark kent afterward
-T

That was followed by a continuity reboot on the primary DCU Superman, however, shifting away from Silver/Bronze Age Earth-One Superman to Post-COIE Earth Superman. Is Bruce/Batman in for the same Post-FINAL CRISIS?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive! )

[Adam C]

Yes but that ruins R.I.P because we know Bruce is still Batman,

Presuming that the only pay off is simply whether or not Bruce remains behind the cowl, but I think that simplifies things far too much, especially for a psychological story like RIP.

[Seraku]

Gaiman's story is likely going to be similar to Moore story, based solely on the title.

Battle for the Cowl will be a fight between the 3 Robins past and present, Selina and Hush, put in motion by the end of the FC tie in issues

[TysonSL]

Might not have been necessary at all, but it was still a very good issue. I'm surprised it's getting so much hate. Well, I guess not, for some reason a lot of people seem to hate Meltzer. I've always like his stuff.

I agree with every word here. I loved the Green Arrow run, Loved Identity Crisis (although the ending was a bit of a let down), didn't mind the JLA stuff (on his own or with Geoff Johns) and loved this issue.

I don't know much about Geo Force, but I did start to care about him and his battle with himself/faith. I thought the panel where he slits his own throat was amazing, as was the reveal that he'd ran through Deathstroke with his own sword.
I do agree that the fact that both lived was a little anticlimatic, but I would have missed Deathstroke so much if he's died. Geo, not so much.

Final question: who was the priest? Should we know him? I'm not that up on lesser known DC characters

[Mon-el]

Final question: who was the priest? Should we know him? I'm not that up on lesser known DC characters

He is Leslie "Rocky" Davis, one of the Challengers of the Unknown. That's why his text was bolded in purple.

[DCadb58]

doubt it. Bruce isn't dying nor retiring. I think we're going to see a new Almagam of Bruce Wayne, A fresh New Batman.

Fresh new Batman ? Ugh. Just kill him off already.

[TysonSL]

He is Leslie "Rocky" Davis, one of the Challengers of the Unknown. That's why his text was bolded in purple.

Ah, thanks for that

[Tanjint]

That was followed by a continuity reboot on the primary DCU Superman, however, shifting away from Silver/Bronze Age Earth-One Superman to Post-COIE Earth Superman. Is Bruce/Batman in for the same Post-FINAL CRISIS?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive! )

yeah, but he was still clark kent.

didio and others have made clear that these stories simply mean/meant the end of an era and the beginning of a new. take that as you will.

-T

[Buried Alien]

yeah, but he was still clark kent.

didio and others have made clear that these stories simply mean/meant the end of an era and the beginning of a new. take that as you will.

-T

Until proven otherwise, the "end of an old/beginning of a new era" for the BATMAN franchise rings of more "the boy who cried wolf." It was supposedly a "new era" after KNIGHTFALL, after NO MAN'S LAND, after MURDERER/FUGITIVE, and after INFINITE CRISIS, but the same old status quo invariably reasserted itself.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Superboy-Prime]

which makes it moot to even bother killing off bruce,because in a matter of years he'll be back. and its DC for godsakes, the company who refused to kill off Dick Grayson back in Infinite Crises, do you honestly think they'll kill off Bruce, A highly more profitbale character then Dick will ever be?!

[carabas]

Until proven otherwise, the "end of an old/beginning of a new era" for the BATMAN franchise rings of more "the boy who cried wolf." It was supposedly a "new era" after KNIGHTFALL, after NO MAN'S LAND, after MURDERER/FUGITIVE, and after INFINITE CRISIS, but the same old status quo invariably reasserted itself.I do not recall No Man's LAnd being the beginning of a New Era. Spot on for the others though; the consequences of Murdere/Fugitive being swept aside one month after it ended (by Jeph Loeb) still smarts.

But in this case, the writer isn't going anywhere, so whatever fallout there is fom R.I.P., it will likely stick for at least as long as Morrison is writing Batman.

[Captain Jim]

As much as I defend Meltzer, or at least stick by his stuff when others bash him, and as much as I enjoyed this comic quite a lot, "Shouldn't you be home with your parents?" is one of the worst gaffes I've ever seen in a comic book.


Ahem.....


BATMAN *IS* HIS PARENT NOW!!!! YOU KINDA MADE HIM THAT WHEN YOU KILLED JACK DRAKE, BRAD!!!!


Your error has already been pointed out, but allow me to elaborate a bit more.

For one, you misquoted the issue. The actual quote is, "I assumed you'd be with your parents." Nothing said about being "home."

The above sentence is a direct response to Dick Grayson's question to Bruce and Tim, "You guys got room for a third?" So it is clearly being addressed to Dick not Tim. This is reinforced by Dick's response to Bruce in the following panel, "I'm exactly where I want to be."

It's really not confusing at all, if you read it carefully. I'm not trying to rub your nose in it or anything, but it really irritates me when people put something down so vocally (and I'm not JUST talking about Sean here), when the only problem is, they didn't read it carefully enough to understand what was actually happening.

Btw, I wasn't happy about Tim's dad being killed either, but don't blame Meltzer; that was an editorial mandate. DC had wanted him dead for a long time.

As far as this issue was concerned... different strokes for different folks, I guess. I didn't care for REQUIEM at all (despite its almost universal praise on this forum), but I liked Last Will & Testament a lot! I almost didn't buy it, so I'm very glad I did. Then again, I tend to like most all of Meltzer's work.

[Taskmaster]

Great art, crap story. What is with DC over the past five or so years crapping all over Deathstroke. He's not Lex Luthor, never was, he's not responsible for Terra being nuts and having powers, never was, all he did was point her in a direction, he's not some nutso supervillain who bombs cities and intentionally kills heroes. He's a mercenary with his own code of honor and unless someone was paying him to deal with Geo-Force he wouldn't have bothered dealing with that looser at all. At this point, the only way to get Slade back to a recognizable character would be that he was mind controlled since before Identity Crisis because pretty much everything since then has been a totally different character from the one created by Marv Wolfman

[Super Buddies Forever]

The sun hasn't come up for days, and yet we don't get a call back to Final Night?

[Pyro]

I really liked the line, "Last time, we destroyed something called an interdimensional tower. The time before that, we attacked an antimatter cannon. This time there's nothing to punch ... There's just silence and darkness." It said that this is a different kind of Crisis, and that it's much scarier when there is no physical threat.

Yet, this issue seemed so inconsistent with what is really going on in Final Crisis. I assume the blackout happened at the end of the third issue, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how the big three are around for these quiet moments. Still, I have to admit that I liked the character interaction this issue and the art was fantastic.

[Sean Walsh]

Yet, this issue seemed so inconsistent with what is really going on in Final Crisis. I assume the blackout happened at the end of the third issue, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how the big three are around for these quiet moments.

Blame the editors - they probably flat-out forgot to tell Meltzer "don't use Batman or Superman or WW because they're MIA and out of action by the time this story happens."

But regardless, all those character moments were very well written indeed.

[carabas]

I don't think Metzler had even a vague understanding of what was supposed to be happeing in Final Crisis. I mean, it's all so generic. You could change nothing at all, and it would be an equally qualified Infinite Crisis tie-in.

[Sean Walsh]

I don't think Metzler had even a vague understanding of what was supposed to be happeing in Final Crisis. I mean, it's all so generic. You could change nothing at all, and it would be an equally qualified Infinite Crisis tie-in.

True. The core of the issue was Geo-Force/Black Lightning/Deathstroke, which seemed was playing on FC more than anything; all the other stuff was basically character moments that seemed fitting for a "final day" setting.

[DjMichael691]

The sun hasn't come up for days, and yet we don't get a call back to Final Night?

That is what I don't get. I really enjoyed this and it made want to get Final Crisis to see what was going on with the sun, final battle, etc (I am a Marvel boy and don't much DC except for JLA and All Star Superman) but when I read issues 1-3 of Final Crisis this title didn't fit in anywhere?

Maybe I am missing something? Can someone explain?

[carabas]

Wasn't it explained in post 78?

[DjMichael691]

Wasn't it explained in post 78?

LOL

No not really.

[carabas]

You asked where Requim fits in. I posulated that Meltzer didn't know the first thing about Final Crisis while writing Requim other than how J'onn died, so evidently Requim does not fit in at all.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Touching back on my earlier comment, one of the things that rings false about this and other Final Crisis tie-ins (no matter how loose they are) is how they keep trying to define the end of the world as something that has only nearly happened twice before (in the previous two "Crisis" events). Granted, DiDio is pushing hard for the concept of his Crisis trilogy, but doesn't it kind of discount the hundreds of other times the world has almost ended in the DCU?

I mean, speaking from a strictly in-universe perspective, wasn't Zero Hour a hell of a lot worse than Infinite Crisis? Several Earths appeared in the sky in the latter, but in Zero Hour the entirety of the past, present, and future was erased. Wiped clean. The heroes were left standing in an empty void with everything they had ever known dead and non-existent. What about Final Night? At the point in Final Crisis that this is supposed to take place at, that situation still seemed much more dire. The Earth's sun was devoured and the planet was draped in darkness for days (by the way Meltzer, if the sun really hasn't been up across the planet for days, why hasn't the temperature dropped?).

That's not even including the dozens, if not hundreds, of times the world almost ended in any random ongoing's storyline, via alien invasion, dimensional wonkiness, or what have you. So, ignoring for a moment that the citizens of the DCU should be traumatized husks by this point, why is Final Crisis presented as so dire here? Why are the previous two "Crisis" events held up as the bleakest days of the DCU when it's faced equal, if not worse?

It's a forced narrative that's pulling me out of the story.

[carabas]

I reckon it's because they were victorious in Zero Hour, Final Night and whatnot. In Final Crisis, they don't even have a clue how to even start to fight back.

The current emergency always trumps all previous emergencies because it is current instead of a memory.

[DjMichael691]

You asked where Requim fits in. I posulated that Meltzer didn't know the first thing about Final Crisis while writing Requim other than how J'onn died, so evidently Requim does not fit in at all.

Thanks :smile: but I was asking where Last Will and Testament fits in.

[carabas]

Thanks :smile: but I was asking where Last Will and Testament fits in.Oh. My bad. I meant Last Will and Testament (that's the one with Geo-Force and Deathstroke, right?). That is the one that clearly does not fit into the Final Crisis timeline at all.

[Sean Walsh]

Oh. My bad. I meant Last Will and Testament (that's the one with Geo-Force and Deathstroke, right?). That is the one that clearly does not fit into the Final Crisis timeline at all.

....it does, but not completely. It does continue the theme of "heroes in the middle of a fight they cannot possibly understand how to battle or win," but several particular scenes make no sense.

As you said, Meltzer was probably not informed (surprise, surprise: editorial bleeps up again) about the specifics of who was where in FC at that point; which is why the Supes/Pa Kent and Bruce/Dick/Tim stuff cannot possibly work in the timeline, even though they're very good segments.

[marshal99]

Never read all the comments but didn't Terra from the old team titans proven to be the old terra returned back from the grave after the DNA test showed it.

Why would Geo-force after so many years , now then go after deathstroke ?!? It's quite badly written. Meltzer & Bendis are flip side of the same coin.

[BoSoxJay]

So it was written like Tim is rather jealous of Dick for being the "first born Robin". For a moment it made me add Drake to the list of 10,00 names on the "Who is Black Glove" suspect list.