When Rachel comes back...

[jarrod]

...what code name/mantle should she take on?

Polla!

[AcesX1X]

I don't know what name she should take, but can I request she goes back to her red fetish gear?

it seems to be the fashion in x-books currently.

[Bronze Badger]

Starchild!

[jarrod]

Starchild!
Accklgack! I knew I forgot one!

[Your Imaginary Pal]

choice: other
Ray Ray Summer Time...
it could work..

[jarrod]

Thinking about it... I think I'd actually like the Marvel Girl title to stay if she returns to the X-Men proper. She needs a new outfit asap though.

If she goes to X-Force, she should be Phoenix again. I also wouldn't mind her going to X-Factor or MI:13 and just dropping the code name entirely. Top X-gals can do that (Jean, Emma, Kitty, Monet, etc).

[timbox]

I picked Phoenix but would also approve of Askani. Marvel Girl and Hound are stupid. White...etc. is too long, and besides, Molly has the Princess code-name already.

[AcesX1X]

I like Askani best.

It has a history, and also a promise of the future. And it also gives Rachel a relevance outside her mother - which is much needed.

However, I still maintain the position that she should go back to her fetish gear. And....maybe also she should braid her hair again.

[Askani's Flame]

I said Askani and here is why:

Hound - Doesn't fit her at all. Maybe that should have been Wolfcub's name. Also it immerses her back into the "woes me I come from a future where I helped kill mutants" blah blah blah. While it's important to acknowledge, she has accepted and moved past.

Marvel Girl - not bad, but not hers. I (kinda) get the whole honour thy mother bit, but personally I would like her to steer clear of using her mother's names, clothing, etc. Separates her from being just "Jean-lite" as some put it.

White Warrior Princess - lame. Worked in the Hellfire Club, but that was it. Too long and she's no Xena.

Phoenix - I would have selected this if the whole Phoenix Force wasn't a convoluted mess. While it's nice to she her have a shard, I don't think she needs to take the name again.

She needs a new look, but I don't think that the "red hound Phoenix" look works for her anymore (IMO).

[Swashbuckler]

I'd call her Crap-face. That's a perfect codename for her.

[DeniseXfrost]

'White warrior princess LMAO" That's her name.

[jarrod]

I think she may take the name "Mrs. Wagner".

[LawGiver]

I voted Other.

I want, when she comes back, to turn right around and leave, don't let the door hit her in the butt on the way out.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It's time she returned to being Phoenix. And no longer being with the X-men.

[timbox]

I think she may take the name "Mrs. Wagner".

There you go.

[Swashbuckler]

I think she may take the name "Mrs. Wagner".

Yeah, she can marry Nocturne. Those girls are perfect for each other!

[jarrod]

Yeah, she can marry Nocturne. Those girls are perfect for each other!
Well, they're both familiar with Kurt's seed in a way.

[Seikun21]

Yeah, she can marry Nocturne. Those girls are perfect for each other!

New Excalibur Dazzler will get jealous.

[Mitteloss]

I liked calling her just 'Rachel'.

[LawGiver]

Actually I change my vote, I want the dinosaur Rachel. What was that called again and does anyone have a picture?

[Seikun21]

Actually I change my vote, I want the dinosaur Rachel. What was that called again and does anyone have a picture?

R'chel? Sorry no picture. It'll be posted eventually though, it always is.

[Swashbuckler]

R'Chel!!!

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/4000/3566/163912-marvel-girl_400.jpg

[Seikun21]

Wow that was fast.

[jarrod]

R'Chel!!!

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/4000/3566/163912-marvel-girl_400.jpg
OMG. Even more proof that Rahne's been imitating Rachel!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Nu-Claremontian Rachel GREY should not be considered a representation of Rachel Summers. The last person to write a decent Rachel still remains Bob Weinstein, on Cable, if you ask me.

[jarrod]

Nu-Claremontian Rachel GREY should not be considered a representation of Rachel Summers. The last person to write a decent Rachel still remains Bob Weinstein, on Cable, if you ask me.
Yost did okay, and Millar was awesome. You mean Weinberg though, who yes wrote a GREAT Rachel.

Claremont and Brubaker have been pure fail. :frown:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yost did okay, and Millar was awesome. You mean Weinberg though, who yes wrote a GREAT Rachel.

Claremont and Brubaker have been pure fail. :frown:

I certainly did mean Weinberg yes. The bloody auto-correct on my Browser's spellchecker appears to be owned by Dimension Films, today...

[dellicious]

wheres the she doesn't come back and gets killed by vulcan option?:evilsmile:

or if not that "dino girl" or "wannabe" would do

[jarrod]

Y'know, Rachel and Storm "have no secrets" between them. It's canon.

[MartinRedmond]

Like this or R'Chel
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.199.GIF

[dellicious]

Y'know, Rachel and Storm "have no secrets" between them. It's canon.

Thats why storm hasnt bothered to even mention or rescue dinogirl. She wants those secrets buried

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I remain frankly amazed of the huge torrent of hate Rachel gets on here. I can think of a good 5 more loathable female X-Men I'd place beneath her. Granted it's been a long time since she was written well, and it seems that every time she gets put on a book with her 'father' it's only a matter of months before he gets moved on, rather than actually explore some family issues, but I think that she still has a lot to offer.

I just wish they'd drop the Marvel Girl tag.

[jarrod]

It's all jealously. Rachel is the blessed bright lady whom lesser beings like Queen Ororo pay homage to.

[streator]

i like her as simply rachel summers.

[Swashbuckler]

She's just horrid. She should go back to her future and cuddle with her dead parents corpses if she wants to be loved by mommy and daddy.

[jarrod]

I'd rather she hug Logan in 616.

[Bic]

R'Chel!!!

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/4000/3566/163912-marvel-girl_400.jpg
I like how her costume automatically adjusted itself to her new hands, feet and that tail that magically sprouted out of her butt.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

She's just horrid. She should go back to her future and cuddle with her dead parents corpses if she wants to be loved by mommy and daddy.

Yeah, but again that whiny persona is pure Nu-Claremontian. She never whined about that on Excalibur or Cable.

[jarrod]

I like how her costume automatically adjusted itself to her new hands, feet and that tail that magically sprouted out of her butt.
Rachel's a pro. I'd like to see Jean manage a genetic cascade so thoroughly.

[Swashbuckler]

Yeah, but again that whiny persona is pure Nu-Claremontian. She never whined about that on Excalibur or Cable.

But it's all the same character. I give her no breaks for being cool 10 years ago. She's aweful. When I add her Uncanny/Excalibur/Cable/and return to Uncanny roles all together I get a big pile of crap, which is the essence of Mother freakin' Askani/Rachel/stain on my comics.

[jarrod]

Kurt's sucked recently too. I guess we should write him off also.

[Swashbuckler]

Kurt's sucked recently too. I guess we should write him off also.

He's just been wallpaper. Not a cross-time, crying, convoluted, dinosaur bitch.

And you totally fail at arguing about Rachel by bringing up Kurt. He has NOTHING to do with Rachel. She's just a bad character and while she was tolerable during Excalibur, I've hated her EVERY other appearance. In Cable she like, sneezed or something, so it wasn't the impressionable.

[jarrod]

He's just been wallpaper. Not a cross-time, crying, convoluted, dinosaur bitch.
No, he's been a hypocritical preacher, enamored with shiny things and Xaiver's, then Scott's, bottom boy. He also made out with a crying, convoluted, dinosaur bitch.


And you totally fail at arguing about Rachel by bringing up Kurt. He has NOTHING to do with Rachel.
Well, nothing until he's horny. <3 <3


She's just a bad character and while she was tolerable during Excalibur, I've hated her EVERY other appearance. In Cable she like, sneezed or something, so it wasn't the impressionable.
She did what the X-Men couldn't, and tracked Cable.

She also did what the other X-Men, SHIELD and the superhero community at large couldn't, and outmaneuvered Wolverine. Go read Enemy of the State, *that's* the Rachel Summers we should be seeing more often.

[Swashbuckler]

No, he's been a hypocritical preacher, enamored with shiny things and Xaiver's, then Scott's, bottom boy. He also made out with a crying, convoluted, dinosaur bitch.

One kiss is not making out Jarrod. Seriously, you can't evne defend Rachel. All you can do is attack other characters. And since I admit Nightcrawler hasn't been that active lately, it's not really doing much for your argument. He's still FAR better then Rachel. I hate her entire concept. She just needs to go back to her own timline.

[jarrod]

One kiss is not making out Jarrod. Seriously, you can't evne defend Rachel. All you can do is attack other characters. And since I admit Nightcrawler hasn't been that active lately, it's not really doing much for your argument. He's still FAR better then Rachel. I hate her entire concept. She just needs to go back to her own timline.
All I'm doing is pointing out other character's flaws, it's valid when presented with vitriolic garbage like your unwarranted seething hatespeech. I like Kurt more too, that doesn't mind I'm blind to his or Rachel's recent mishandlings. Indeed, I think you'll find most Rachel fans pretty vocal and upset about the latter.

[Swashbuckler]

All I'm doing is pointing out other character's flaws, it's valid when presented with vitriolic garbage like your unwarranted seething hatespeech. I like Kurt more too, that doesn't mind I'm blind to his or Rachel's recent mishandlings. Indeed, I think you'll find most Rachel fans pretty vocal and upset about the latter.

It's not evne just her latest mishandlings I hate. I hate her origin, her phoenix rip-off, even her hair styles. Rachel is the worst thing I've ever read in a comic. I'd rather read a Draco ongoing series then a panel of Rachel.

[jarrod]

It's not evne just her latest mishandlings I hate. I hate her origin, her phoenix rip-off, even her hair styles. Rachel is the worst thing I've ever read in a comic. I'd rather read a Draco ongoing series then a panel of Rachel.
We've already well established your bad taste, no need to drive the point further with your adoration of The Draco.


If you really take such issue with the mere concept of Rachel Summers, might I advise you steer clear of threads like these? You seem to post more often in Rachel threads than her diehards, it can't be good for your health?

[dellicious]

It's not evne just her latest mishandlings I hate. I hate her origin, her phoenix rip-off, even her hair styles. Rachel is the worst thing I've ever read in a comic. I'd rather read a Draco ongoing series then a panel of Rachel.

I back this post 100%. Reading rachel's 'character' if you can even call it that is like nails on a chalkboard.

[jarrod]

I back this post 100%.
You would. Jealousy's an ugly monster.

[rwsmith]

I don't think she's coming back. There seems to be a concerted effort on the part of the X-office to keep all of the time-travelers/alternate dimensional characters out on the periphery of the X-books and just focus on the core mutants who are from the present era. At least it seems that way to me.

Bishop is the main antagonist in Cable's new book, which takes place in various alternate future timelines, and Rachel is trapped in space unlikely to return anytime soon.

[jarrod]

I wouldn't expect Rachel anytime soon either honestly... I think a good year from now is probably the earliest we'll see her, Lorna or Alex on Earth.

[kate-pryde]

I can't wait for Rachel to come back, and a new name is definitely needed to get her passed all the horrible damage that Chris Claremont and Ed Brubaker inflicted on her.

Askani would be the best option. She doesn't need to be dragged down by anything related to Jean or the Phoenix any more.

I know some people on this board do not have the mental capacity to understand a character like Rachel, and we have to pity and ignore them.

[rwsmith]

I wouldn't expect Rachel anytime soon either honestly... I think a good year from now is probably the earliest we'll see her, Lorna or Alex on Earth.

Probably the same for Cable's return to the present, to be honest. Then they'll figure out somewhere else they can ship both he and Rachel off to a few months after they return. :frown:

[Pach!]

I think she shouldn't come back to Earth. I don't like her as an X-men. Maybe she should reinvent herself as a Guardian of the Galaxy or w/e. I dunno. Otherwise I hope she doesn't come back any time soon.

[jarrod]

Probably the same for Cable's return to the present, to be honest. Then they'll figure out somewhere else they can ship both he and Rachel off to a few months after they return. :frown:
Yeah, I think that's likely too for Nathan. Long wait. :frown:

Hopefully we get to see an on panel reunion between them at least. I'd also love them both to be on a team together, or at least have Rachel as support in Cable's solo.

[MartinRedmond]

I know some people on this board do not have the mental capacity to understand a character like Rachel, and we have to pity and ignore them.

And righteously so.

[Bingo!]

It's time she returned to being Phoenix. And no longer being with the X-men.
Who would you prefer to see her with?

Nu-Claremontian Rachel GREY should not be considered a representation of Rachel Summers. The last person to write a decent Rachel still remains Bob Weinstein, on Cable, if you ask me.
You don't think she had a good reason for dropping Scott's last name in favor of her mother's?

I think she shouldn't come back to Earth. I don't like her as an X-men. Maybe she should reinvent herself as a Guardian of the Galaxy or w/e. I dunno. Otherwise I hope she doesn't come back any time soon.

I think most Rachel fans think she should be out of the picture for some time. Rachel is, and will always remain, the person that brought the frightening future that mutants are humanity's enemy. This story continues to play out today. Rachel should, in some way, have some role in combating that future. That should be her motivation.

I'd call her Crap-face. That's a perfect codename for her.
You clearly hate Rachel. That was established long ago. You have nothing constructive to add to this thread.
Stay out.

[dellicious]

You would. Jealousy's an ugly monster.

delusion is even worse...:tongue:

[Swashbuckler]

You clearly hate Rachel. That was established long ago. You have nothing constructive to add to this thread.
Stay out.

It's not an appreciation thread, so that rule doesn't apply. I'm having discusions about Rachel so I can come up with a creative new code name for her dreadful return. If you can't handle that then too bad. Perhaps her new name should be "Mother of Bore". Or Mrs.Krovus!

[jarrod]

delusion is even worse...:tongue:
Don't you mean dellusion?

[jarrod]

It's not an appreciation thread, so that rule doesn't apply. I'm having discusions about Rachel so I can come up with a creative new code name for her dreadful return. If you can't handle that then too bad. Perhaps her new name should be "Mother of Bore". Or Mrs.Krovus!
I'm starting to think you secretly love Rachel. How else could you be this obsessed.

We're on the same "team" you and I, Swash. Well, except when it comes to PANTZ.

[Bingo!]

It's not an appreciation thread, so that rule doesn't apply. I'm having discusions about Rachel so I can come up with a creative new code name for her dreadful return. If you can't handle that then too bad. Perhaps her new name should be "Mother of Bore". Or Mrs.Krovus!

I can handle you, Swash. That's not the issue.

When you go off on Rachel, you just sound like, well...

http://badgerblogger.com/img/broken_record.jpg

[Swashbuckler]

I can handle you, Swash. That's not the issue.

When you go off on Rachel, you just sound like, well...

This post is not about a new codename for Rachel. Quit derailing this thread! Reported!

[Bingo!]

This post is not about a new codename for Rachel. Quit derailing this thread! Reported!

:biggrin:

<3

Honestly, though. I think you'd love best as White Warrior Princess.

[jarrod]

I happen to like Rachel's Inner Circle seat as White Warrior Princess. Shame on WBE for ignoring her status during Hellfire month!

[Scavenger]

I wouldn't expect Rachel anytime soon either honestly... I think a good year from now is probably the earliest we'll see her, Lorna or Alex on Earth.

Except the next big story line for Marvel is War of Kings...Shiar vs Inhumans.

I'm pretty sure they'll be there.

I figure Rachel will then go rescue Kitty, and they'll move to Knowhere and open a cosmic B&B with Phyla and the reborn Moondragon.



You don't think she had a good reason for dropping Scott's last name in favor of her mother's?


I don't understand the hate for her last time with Claremont. Claremont actually brought her back from limbo and used her..advanced her character and was doing stuff with her until Brubaker decided he'd like to !@#!@# up anything resembling a storyline for her.

[jarrod]

I wouldn't mind a Starjammers ongoing as part of the cosmic line honestly. Throw in Kitty and Warlock, and you'd have a pretty great cast for it.

Interested Mr. Yost?

[Bingo!]

I wouldn't mind a Starjammers ongoing as part of the cosmic line honestly. Throw in Kitty and Warlock, and you'd have a pretty great cast for it.

Interested Mr. Yost?

If there's anyone I trust with writing Rachel, it would be Yost. He seems to understand mutant yoots better than anyone. He'd find a voice that people could believe in.

[DDM]

Starchild!

Accklgack! I knew I forgot one!

Starchilde is another name for Phoenix.

[Askani's Flame]

I don't understand the hate for her last time with Claremont. Claremont actually brought her back from limbo and used her..de-evolved her character and was doing bad stuff with her until Brubaker decided he'd like to !@#!@# up anything resembling a storyline.

Fixed that for you.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Who would you prefer to see her with?

I think that for the good of the character she needs to be able to be developed on a satellite title, for a while. I'd love to see her (or Kurt for that matter) written by Peter David, on X-Factor, or to have her return to England to join up with Brian and MI:13. On the X-Men she can get caught in the trap of coming across as a whiny teenager at times (Although mostly under Claremont) and that's a real step backwards.

You don't think she had a good reason for dropping Scott's last name in favor of her mother's?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the reason. But I'm generally using the distinction between Summers and Grey to highlight two very different phases of the character - before and since her return to the main X-Books. It's more, really, that I don't like her taking on the Marvel Girl persona - one which her mother abandoned such a long time ago, and with such outmoded sensibilities. Marvel Girl was Jean in an age where the female member of a comic cast was pretty much just there as eye candy - the stylised little woman figure, to make it look as if there was a vague attempt towards equality, when there really wasn't.:biggrin:

It seems such an odd persona for her to take on, when its connotations really don't match with her personality. I know that in all likelihood she will never be the Phoenix again, which I feel is a great shame. But if not Phoenix then I actually quite like the idea of her going by the name Askani.

[Quinnhop]

Askani, for the win.

Let her become her own character, for chrissake.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Askani, for the win.

Let her become her own character, for chrissake.

It's the name that she was going to adopt in time, anyway, why not give to her now?

[creaky]

Swashbuckler, stop bitching and go comment on the Nightcrawler thread. I posted AoA scans with YOU in mind.

[Scavenger]

Fixed that for you.

Oh what a clever poster...see he goes in and edits a post.

So explain how the character's creator using said character after she'd been tossed into limbo for years...having her move forward from where she'd been in reaction to a new events, actually growing, is "devolution". Is it that she was no longer wearing the bondage outfit you must have liked so much? Not as jollyful for you?

[Rachel Grey]

I picked Phoenix, but I wouldn't object to Askani.

Oh and guys? Dont feed the trolls, eh? ;)

[Squidboy]

Mrs. Wagner or Marvel Girl work for me.

[ikeepitblazin]

Askani would be perfect for Rachel. It's about time she step off the PHOENIX thang and leave it to her mom.

[ClanAskani]

Askani. It's time for her to return to that period, especially being far more grown-up, self-assured and a leader.

Phoenix is fine, but I doubt Marvel lets her be the Phoenix. She has part of the Phoenix now and she's still stuck as "Marvel Girl". Let Jean be Phoenix and Rachel be her own character again.

[The Black Guardian]

I don't know what name she should take, but can I request she goes back to her red fetish gear?

it seems to be the fashion in x-books currently.
YES! Fetish gear all around!

I'd be happy if "Askani" never appeared in another book, ever. Rachel is the best Phoenix there ever was!

[Quinnhop]

It's the name that she was going to adopt in time, anyway, why not give to her now?

Eh?

That's what I was saying.

It's time she became Askani.

[Askani's Flame]

Oh what a clever poster...see he goes in and edits a post.

So explain how the character's creator using said character after she'd been tossed into limbo for years...having her move forward from where she'd been in reaction to a new events, actually growing, is "devolution". Is it that she was no longer wearing the bondage outfit you must have liked so much? Not as jollyful for you?

Oh thank you!!! I love it when I am clever and people point it out. And I would love to explain it to you how I see it.

First off, I was happy when Rachel was saved from the timestream and returned back to the comics. I was even more glad that she was involved with the Dark Mother storyline in Cable. None of those were Claremont things and her character still had all of the growth that had transpired in Uncanny and Excalibur.

I fixed your word to de-evolve because that is exactly what he did to Rachel - he de-evolved her. Literally and figuratively (see Swashbuckler for images of R'chel). First her brings her back in a typical Claremont "female telepath controlled by a baddie" move. Ugh. Then he shaves her head again and makes her go Jean-crazy. Also makes her take a different surname to spite her not-really-her-father-but-thinks-of-him-that-way Cyclops. Then makes her unable to walk in high heels and turns her into a rookie X-Man with no fighting ability. I get that she's only 22, but the girl is hardly a rookie. She learned how to fight using Kitty's demon ninja technique by watching Kitty alone. And clearly she never wore the . . .what was it. . "bondage outfit" I must have liked so much :rolleyes:, for an extended period of time. Even her Phoenix costume was with heels. Then she is taught abilities that she's already mastered by Emma. So now she is forgetting abilities left and right. Oh and let's not forget getting easily overwhelmed by the thoughts of a nightclub full of people like a rookie telepath would. But sure, she's evolved under Claremont's pen right?

WRONG. Enter the dino Rachel. Yet another "powerful telepath being owned and controlled by a lame psychic attack" story. Yes it shows just how powerful her TK is, but it again makes her look like a rookie in that she doesn't have any psychic guards or can't fend off a measly attack. Also add in that at this time Betsy resurfaces and calls Rachel "Phoenix" and Rachel responds with "I'm not Phoenix, that was my momma". So the whole time Rachel was Phoenix in Uncanny and Excalibur just didn't happen? Oh right, she must have forgot.

So let's recap: Rachel has forgotten that she was Phoenix, how to walk in high heels, fight hand to hand, use abilities she's already gained, access her chronokinesis, that Jean isn't everything in her life, cleared and protected her mind from further mental re-programming, is decent with her telepathic abilities, and that she is independent and powerful on her own. Yup I see how she's definitely moved forward as a character. Thank you so much for pointing out the error of my ways.

There are only two things that I appreciate Claremont for when he brought her back: He brought her back and End of Greys. That's it. And oh wait, her whole family has been decimated before, so even that isn't a completely new event for her.

I am glad that Yost has begun to bring her back up to where has has already been.

Is it that she was no longer wearing the bondage outfit you must have liked so much? Not as jollyful for you?

Really? Actually I could have cared less about her outfit then. Not my fav (not so into bondage really but anyways). I have liked her outfits better since. My fav was the Dark Phoenix outfit or the "space hooker" one she has now (which puts me in the minority there).

[Falconen]

I said Rachel should be named Phoenix, because if Jean ever does come back (and she will) , I do not want her to be Phoenix.

[Cerridwen]

Askani!!! :biggrin:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Askani. It's time for her to return to that period, especially being far more grown-up, self-assured and a leader.

Phoenix is fine, but I doubt Marvel lets her be the Phoenix. She has part of the Phoenix now and she's still stuck as "Marvel Girl". Let Jean be Phoenix and Rachel be her own character again.

I totally agree. What we should be seeing now is Rachel taking steps towards a character who could have become Mother Askani. Instead we have this strange, more child-like, vision of her - which Claremont introduced when he picked her up again. Now, I don't know about everybody else, but I cannot really see how that characterisation matches up with Mother Askani. I cannot see how one could have become the other.

In Rachel as she was in Excalibur I could.

I'd be happy if "Askani" never appeared in another book, ever. Rachel is the best Phoenix there ever was!

Can't agree with the first part of that, but I more than agree with the second.

Eh?

That's what I was saying.

It's time she became Askani.

I was agreeing with you Quinnhop.

[The Black Guardian]

Can't agree with the first part of that, but I more than agree with the second.
Askani will never be more than some silly, made up name to me. To explain what it is, you have to explain all of that Cable-timeline future nonsense that was removed from Rachel, a character already from another timeline, to make her a more viable character.

[steve2275]

i like rachel grey myself

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Askani will never be more than some silly, made up name to me. To explain what it is, you have to explain all of that Cable-timeline future nonsense that was removed from Rachel, a character already from another timeline, to make her a more viable character.

Or you can just say that in a future timeline Rachel was given the nickname of "Askani" meaning 'Outsider'. Now knowing that the world she was once once part of will never exist she truly is an outsider, in every sense of the word - and chooses to wear that name as a badge of office in the modern day.

[MarvelGirlBoy]

I think Rachel needs a new codename; something to distinguish her from her mom (even if it means my username is rendered moot). Marvel Girl's great and fine, but it's another Jean-hand-me-down, and Rachel's past the ripped tights look.

I almost voted Hound, but Rachel needs more Wolverine genes to pull that off.

I'd suggest something tied to the Phoenix mythos but that sets Rachel apart in the sense of CC's original conception that she'd be all Jesus-y, something like 'Ash' if that didn't just make me think 'Ketchum'. Or 'Ember'. Starchilde would work, too...

[Daithi]

Starchilde would work, too...

Gladiator calls her that all the time. I think it fits her.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Gladiator calls her that all the time. I think it fits her.

My only problem with it is that id reminds me of Illyana's Darkchilde persona. It does very much always place her as a child in people's eyes.

[DDM]

First her brings her back in a typical Claremont "female telepath controlled by a baddie" move. Ugh. Then he shaves her head again and makes her go Jean-crazy.

Given Rachel Summers own relationship with her "mother" Jean Grey--who is not really her mother--I think Rachel's reaction is normal. When she sees Scott & Jean, she is reminded of their ghosts. For in her world, they are dead. This is something you just don't get over.

Also makes her take a different surname to spite her not-really-her-father-but-thinks-of-him-that-way Cyclops.

Rachel Summers changed her name to Rachel Grey to spite Cyclops' relationship with Emma Frost, the former White Queen of the Hellfire Club. I think Rachel is justified.


Then makes her unable to walk in high heels and turns her into a rookie X-Man with no fighting ability. I get that she's only 22, but the girl is hardly a rookie. She learned how to fight using Kitty's demon ninja technique by watching Kitty alone. And clearly she never wore the . . .what was it. . "bondage outfit" I must have liked so much :rolleyes:, for an extended period of time. Even her Phoenix costume was with heels. Then she is taught abilities that she's already mastered by Emma. So now she is forgetting abilities left and right. Oh and let's not forget getting easily overwhelmed by the thoughts of a nightclub full of people like a rookie telepath would. But sure, she's evolved under Claremont's pen right?

By the time Chris Claremont got Rachel back, her character had fundamentally changed: Rachel--who is meant to be Phoenix--is no longer Phoenix due to editorial edict. However, Rachel still manifests the Phoenix Effect & still has a great resveror of power. This contradiction seems to be Chris Claremont's way around the editorial edict.

Rachel's Hound mask was expunged in Excalibur; she lost the Phoenix in The Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1-4 & died. When written back in Cable, Rachel still is not Phoenix, although she should be.

I believe Rachel was building Rachel back to being Phoenix, but this would take some time, but he was off Uncanny X-Men before Rachel could be Phoenix again.

WRONG. Enter the dino Rachel. Yet another "powerful telepath being owned and controlled by a lame psychic attack" story. Yes it shows just how powerful her TK is, but it again makes her look like a rookie in that she doesn't have any psychic guards or can't fend off a measly attack. Also add in that at this time Betsy resurfaces and calls Rachel "Phoenix" and Rachel responds with "I'm not Phoenix, that was my momma". So the whole time Rachel was Phoenix in Uncanny and Excalibur just didn't happen? Oh right, she must have forgot.

Rachel's mind has been so designed to be a slave; it is why she comes under the influence of others so easily. This is her legacy as a Hound. However, Rachel's powers are so great she turned her thoughts into reality with Dino Rachel. Again, Chris Claremont is proving Rachel is not so free of her Hound programming with these stories. And she still wields the powers of Phoenix.

[Daithi]

Rachel Summers changed her name to Rachel Grey to spite Cyclops' relationship with Emma Frost, the former White Queen of the Hellfire Club. I think Rachel is justified.

Rachel Summers is from an alternate timeline. Why would Rachel change the her surname to spite an alternate version of her father? Who in Rachel's memories was complety besotted with his daughter?

If Rachel encounters an evil version of Jean Grey who makes out with oh Mojo should she change her name back?

[Askani's Flame]

Given Rachel Summers own relationship with her "mother" Jean Grey--who is not really her mother--I think Rachel's reaction is normal. When she sees Scott & Jean, she is reminded of their ghosts. For in her world, they are dead. This is something you just don't get over.

I will agree that it is not something you just get over, but the way she has gone on about it has been a bit much. They made peace and were friends before she left Excalibur. She comes back and decides to try and live a normal life and not contact Jean. Disappears, gets kidnapped and saved by the X-Men and Jean is dead again. At this point she now becomes ridiculously immature and whines about Jean and such. She didn't do this when she learned about Cyclops'"death" upon arrival back to this timeline. Sure she was upset, but didn't go on about it ad nauseum like she did about Jean.


Rachel Summers changed her name to Rachel Grey to spite Cyclops' relationship with Emma Frost, the former White Queen of the Hellfire Club. I think Rachel is justified.

I am fully aware of the circumstance in which she did it and I disagree with you there. I think she would have been more justified if it was done after End of Greys. Her doing it was completely childish, especially for someone who is not technically a child to the person they are trying to spite.

By the time Chris Claremont got Rachel back, her character had fundamentally changed: Rachel--who is meant to be Phoenix--is no longer Phoenix due to editorial edict. However, Rachel still manifests the Phoenix Effect & still has a great resveror of power. This contradiction seems to be Chris Claremont's way around the editorial edict.

Rachel's Hound mask was expunged in Excalibur; she lost the Phoenix in The Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1-4 & died. When written back in Cable, Rachel still is not Phoenix, although she should be.

Yup, you're right her character had changed since Claremont had his hands on her. I think for the better. Lots happened to her in Excalibur which was ignored and that is a shame.

Would I have liked her to return to 616 as Phoenix? Most definitely. But by that point Marvel wanted Jean to be Phoenix again. So when they brought her back from future limbo, Marvel already had a Phoenix and was gearing jean to wield it's powers again. So again, while many of us wanted her to be Phoenix again it was not gonna happen.

I believe Rachel was building Rachel back to being Phoenix, but this would take some time, but he was off Uncanny X-Men before Rachel could be Phoenix again

I think he was trying to sow seeds of future Phoenix-y things, but there was no way they (Marvel) would let her be the full Phoenix again. They had plans for the "Phoenix": they involved Jean and the god awful Emma clones. No Rachel, except for the mention that she has done bad things in her past in Warsong. We were lucky that she got the echo of the Phoenix with Bru.

Rachel's mind has been so designed to be a slave; it is why she comes under the influence of others so easily. This is her legacy as a Hound. However, Rachel's powers are so great she turned her thoughts into reality with Dino Rachel. Again, Chris Claremont is proving Rachel is not so free of her Hound programming with these stories. And she still wields the powers of Phoenix.

Yup, and that design was removed and fixed by the Phoenix in Excalibur (I believe issue 64). The PF left Rachel's mind healed and free of Ahab and Mojo's mental programming before leaving her the all its powers and responsibilities. And while the R'chel episode proved how powerful she was, I don't necessarily think it showed her wielded Phoenix powers. It showed how outright her potential and abilities she has without the PF at her disposal.

I get that not all Rachel fans are on the same page with her characterization. I personally feel that just because a writer gets a character he created, it doesn't give them the liberty of ignoring or removing any of the events/characterizations that have shaped said character in the 15-20 years since writing them. Reverting a character in such a fashion can leave a distaste in some readers mouths. I am one of those readers. I liked the build up in Excalibur, I liked what was done in Cable. I hate how she was returned to the X-Men. Some good things did come out of Claremont's writing, but it did not do wonders for her.

[Rick Summers]

Slight correction...
A few of you have said Claremont "brought her back" but he did not.
It was in fact Robert Weinberg (http://www.robertweinberg.net/) that brought her back when he was still the writer of Cable (the bestest Cable take ever!)
I still get angry thinking about how he was pulled off that title after all the preparation he did and future planning. Ughhhh. Oh well.

I guess we can't do much about the Rachel bashing. Everyone here isn't at the same maturity level so what can you do?

[Askani's Flame]

Slight correction...
A few of you have said Claremont "brought her back" but he did not.
It was in fact Robert Weinberg (http://www.robertweinberg.net/) that brought her back when he was still the writer of Cable (the bestest Cable take ever!)
I still get angry thinking about how he was pulled off that title after all the preparation he did and future planning. Ughhhh. Oh well.

I guess we can't do much about the Rachel bashing. Everyone here isn't at the same maturity level so what can you do?

When I used the phrase "brought her back" above in regards to Claremont, I specifically am referring to bringing her back to the X-Men ranks, not to 616. That honour strictly goes to Weinberg. And yes that was an amazing run on Cable!

Sorry if I confused anyone with my Rachel rant/love :biggrin:

[Schuimend Mormel]

Or you can just say that in a future timeline Rachel was given the nickname of "Askani" meaning 'Outsider'. Now knowing that the world she was once once part of will never exist she truly is an outsider, in every sense of the word - and chooses to wear that name as a badge of office in the modern day.The name fits her perfectly, the meaning of the name does, but 'Askani' as a codename/alias would sound so alien.

I like where MarvelGirlBoy is going with his suggestions 'Ash' and 'Ember'; I think a name that would refer to her powers, mental powers, time travel, or the raptor signature, would be ideal, but I can't think of any good ones.

[Daithi]

The name fits her perfectly, the meaning of the name does, but 'Askani' as a codename/alias would sound so alien.

I agree. Askani as a codename sounds odd. Even clunky. However I think Marvel Girl as codename is odd also. For some reason Supergirl works. However in a battle I could never see why anybody would try to use Marvel Girl instead of just saying Rachel. It;s like you need to think about the codename before you use it.

[Schuimend Mormel]

I agree. Askani as a codename sounds odd. Even clunky. However I think Marvel Girl as codename is odd also. For some reason Supergirl works. However in a battle I could never see why anybody would try to use Marvel Girl instead of just saying Rachel. It;s like you need to think about the codename before you use it.Yes, it sounds a little dated. I also think the name doesn't fit her anymore because she's too mature for 'Marvel Girl', and because she is no longer using the green-and-yellow costume.

[The Black Guardian]

Or you can just say that in a future timeline Rachel was given the nickname of "Askani" meaning 'Outsider'. Now knowing that the world she was once once part of will never exist she truly is an outsider, in every sense of the word - and chooses to wear that name as a badge of office in the modern day.
Except this now never really happened to Rachel. And it still adds an unnecessary layer of complication to her already complicated story. Removing this was one of the things Weinberg got right.

[ClanAskani]

Technically Rachel does still have memories of the Askani timeline, so in a way it did happen to her.

Weinberg didn't remove all of it, all he did was de-age her and give her selective Askani memories. Stories don't work very well when someone from the future knows everything.

[subliminal]

Perhaps it's a timetravel conundrum. When Weinberg brought her back, Rachel somehow forgets how she altered events in the Askani future, probably because she would have been way too powerful with Mother Askani level powers and memories in a younger body. Yet, when Rachel was made her debut she was trying to prevent her future (DoFP) from coming to be, but the past she went back to was different than she remembered. If Rachel hadn't been born yet, and it was a different timeline, why is it possible for her to retain those memories then and not from the Askani future?

A perfect codename for Rachel would be no codename, Rachel Summers is great.

[Cub]

Rachel taking on the Grey name: Yes, she's of an alternate timeline, but i think it goes without saying that she's adopted this reality as her own, and while she knows Scott and Jean are not her true parents, she's always acted in the mindset that they are, for better or worse, parental figures. See, for instance, Scott and jean's wedding. And Rachel has always been shown to have a closer bond with her reality's Jean than Scott. Her behavior is not out of character.

Rachel stating she is not the Phoenix, that was her mom: Yeah, Rachel held the power of the Phoenix for a time (better than her momma EVER did, but i digress), but the Phoenix released its hold on her, and it's been shown that the Phoenix truly lies with Jean. The Phoenix resided within Rachel as a) part of her birthright, and b) to watch over her, one of the human qualities the Phoenix has seemed to be able to adopt. But I think Rachel understnds that Jean is the true human host of the Phoenix, and that is where she's coming from with that statement.

Rachel being taken down easily, and showing beginner's prowess of her abilities: Even at her best, which I think is pretty much taken as her time with Excalibur, Rachel, could still be taken down rather easily at times, due to a variety of conditions: hubris, and a lack of true understanding of her abilities not the least of them. Granted, she was very gifted in her instinctive knowledge of her power, but she received very little training from Xavier. Most of her training is either from the hound program or self taught. She's gonna get confused, or over confident, even now.

Rachel not being able to wear heels: Well, I got nothing here. Anyone who has read a single issue of Excalibur knows that's just sloppy writing...

[Cub]

Double Post!

[Cub]

Triple Post!