Uncanny X-Men #501 Discussion Thread ~ Spoilers

[Arkady Rossovich]

Uncanny X-Men #501
Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction / Greg Land / Jay Leisten
SFX2: All Tomorrow's Parties

We open with Pixie and her unnamed friend in Oakland leaving the Dazzler concert. A narrator tells us, "it's one of those nights -- one of those absolutely perfect nights. Megan Gwynn can't remember the last time she laughed so hard, danced so much, or had quite so many Red Bulls." We see the Hellfire Cult approaching from behind, with chains and baseball bats drawn. Megan and her friend don't realize they're being followed until it's too late -- with a deafening cry of "Die Mutie!," she and her friend are assaulted.

The narrator tells us that the members of the Cult are moving with deadly precision; but Wolverine taught Pixie how to fight. She's an X-Man, and she's not going to stand for this. She is "too tweaked to remember [her] teleportation spell," so she tries to fly away. Pixie drops a couple of the gang members in the process, but takes a bat to the back of the head.

"Welcome to San Francisco -- well -- Oakland, Megan Gwynn. Hope you survive the experience."

Cut to downtown San Fran, Worthington Towers. Cyclops and Emma are getting ready for bed, and Emma is standing in front of him barely dressed (naked?), presumably showing off some pricey little number that she bought in Tokyo. Scott wants to know how much she spent, but she assures him "the view alone is worth every Euro." Making out ensues, etc etc, and Emma says that the X-Men seem way more "sex saturated lately." Scott can't get to sleep, so he goes to work on building the crib for the mutant child. Emma walks in on him.

The next day. Scott and Warren are driving on the Golden Gate Bridge in a really nice sportscar, and Scott can't believe that Warren is personally providing these cars for all of the "senior staff" (examples given are Cyclops, Emma, Hank, Warren). Scott and Warren joke about Scott having "first day jitters" now that they're settling into the swing of things in San Fran, and they're interrupted by a call; one of Worthington's clients is getting tired of waiting for him. Warren tells Scott to drive the rest of the way, while he flies.

"Besides, everybody on this bridge'll spend the next day and a half telling everyone they know that the coolest thing they ever saw...was the Uncanny X-Men driving to work."

Next we have Scott narrating as he continues his commute. He talks about how the mountains in the Marin Headlands are full of decommissioned military bases, and that the X-Men bought the entire stretch of land to build their new digs.

"We'll open its doors to mutants far and wide. A resource for our people -- people that are diminishing every day. Nothing so formal as a school. Nothing that requires invitations, invocations, secret handshakes, or letters of recommendation. Almost like a community center. A resource for the public good. A place where our kind -- powered or depowered -- can find protection and education, and where we can keep an eye on the world." We then see the name of the new complex: "Greymalkin Industries." "Greymalkin? Warren, you've gotta be kidding me..." - Cyclops

Scott pulls up to the building and finds Logan, Kurt, Hank, and Karma chilling in the main room / kitchen area. Scott jokingly asks how they all beat him here, to which Nightcrawler replies "Some of us don't worry about rush hour traffic, jah?" Logan asks Hank to toss him a beer, and he gets a few jeers (seeing as how it's early in the morning). He says he hasn't gone to sleep yet.

Beast: "Good morning, Mr. Summers. I woke up to discover I've regained a degree of dexterity in my paws I've been lacking since the secondary mutation kicked in. I came here in hopes to scramble a few eggs for breakfast (since I can handle both a spatula and a pan again), and yet all this ridiculous refrigerator has inside are Hot Pockets. I need eggs, Scott. I don't even want to know what Hot Pockets are."

Cyclops: "We need groceries....okay."

Beast: "Don't make me learn about Hot Pockets, Scott. My fingers are working again...I've been having such a wonderful day."

Piotr enters the room. "Ugh, so early, Logan?" (referring to the beer). Wolverine, saying "everyone's a damn critic," tosses the beer at Colossus, ("Think fast, big man!") only to have Nightcrawler teleport in and kick it back at him.

The X-Men are interrupted by the sight of Pixie, battered and bruised. They quickly go to her aid, but it hits Scott worst of all. How could he have let this happen?

Scott: "What stuck with me most wasn't the blood. Or the gore. It wasn't my teammates helping the poor girl. It was her wings. These poor, sad fairy wings, trying so hard to catch the sunlight and reflect it...just bashed all to hell. These magical things -- ruined. I swore I would find who did this to her. And I swore I would make them pay."

We then cut to a confusing panel where we see the reflection of a Hellfire Cult member in Scott's glasses as he screams, "Where did you get that helmet?!!" I guess a jump into the future?

Hellfire Cult HQ. Empath is having a talk with all his cronies, as he chronicles what they've done to mutants so far. He calls it a good start, but there's much more to be done. Empath is clearly using his powers to rile the gang members up, as he tells them to gather as many friends as they can to "save the human race." One of his underlings says that someone was saying "Mr. Roache's" real name is "De La Rocha," and that he used to be employed by X-Corporation overseas. Empath, not wanting this to be known, tells the kid that it's a big lie, and uses his powers to enrage him. The kid goes to find the person who told him this "filthy lie," and beats the shit out of him.

Cut to Empath walking into a bright white room and taking off his shirt, revealing a bunch of cuts and bruises. He's talking to someone off-panel.

Empath: "These kids are angry. Directionless. Aching for anything...anyone...to believe in. A little bit of attention and a little psychic push, and they'll do anything I ask."

Disembodied voice: "Anything who asks, Empath?!"

Empath: "I'm sorry my mistress! I meant anything you ask! Red Queen!"

We see a Jean Grey / Madelyne Pryor / whatever lookalike, dressed in a dominatrix outfit with a psionic whip.

Back to San Francisco, later that night. Karma is walking the streets alone, listening to her headphones. The Hellfire Cult sees her in an alley and tells her "this alley is humans only!" (How do they know she's a mutant...?)

It's a setup. Karma gives the signal, and, back at Marin, we see Piotr giving Wolverine a fastball special right into a Nightcrawler Bamf. The final page shows Wolverine lunging out of the portal at the gang members.

================================================== ================================================

Issue 500 was a bit of a disappointment, so I was pleasantly surprised after reading this issue. Oh sure, Land's art is terrible in places and there's some cheesy bits. But it's just nice to see the X-Men hanging around like normal people every once in awhile. The Hellfire Cult sub-plot....I don't know what to think of it yet. A group of zealots that beat up mutants is nothing new, but I think Brubaker and Fraction are going somewhere with it, and as of now it's perfectly entertaining.

8/10

I apologize for posting this an hour early. I knew you were supposed to wait until the actual issue came out, but I forgot that there was a 12:00 AM timestamp.

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Besides the context of the scene, which does appear to indicate that the friend of Pixie is gay, an alleged original script of the issue has been making the rounds on the internet, and in it, the goons yell "Queer Freaks" as they begin bashing Pixie and her friend. So let that inform your discussions.

[frog]

Nice summary, but a couple of friendly reminders - the moderator prefers that the summaries come with a bit of review - just giving your general opinion of the issue is fine - and also that the spoilers not be posted until the actual day of release in the U.S.


That out of the way, this is confusing to me. Is the new headquarters supposed to be secret or not? The big agenda now is supposedly the survival of the species, hence the move away from their previous well documented location. However, it seems like they are trying to be as conspicious as possible. Also, does Cyclops plan to actually dwell at the new base?

[Beast]

I thought Dazzler was supposed to appear in this issue?

But I love Beast and his horror of Hot Pockets. That's just awesome! :biggrin:

[frog]

The thing with Beast's new found dexterity also seems a little odd. Yes, he couldn't play guitar with only four digits to each hand but I've seen no indication he couldn't handle something as simple as breakfast until now. What the hell?

[frog]

I thought Dazzler was supposed to appear in this issue?

But I love Beast and his horror of Hot Pockets. That's just awesome! :biggrin:

Yeah, there's already been some board drama over leaks of her conspicious absence.



The man's afraid of Hot Pockets yet binges on Twinkies? :biggrin:

[Arkady Rossovich]

This is the way I understand it:

The X-Men's occupation of the Marin Headlands is public knowledge. BUT, all the decomissioned military bases are underground, and the big elaborate "panic room" that they've built below the structure is secret.

My understanding is that as of now, everyone lives at Worthington Towers in downtown San Francisco, and they "work" at Greymalkin Industries. Although I'm sure there are sleeping accomodations at Marin since it's implied Colossus is just waking up, and we see Beast making breakfast.

[Beast]

The thing with Beast's new found dexterity also seems a little odd. Yes, he couldn't play guitar with only four digits to each hand but I've seen no indication he couldn't handle something as simple as breakfast until now. What the hell?
Yeah, I don't get that either. His manuel dexterity had improved a long time ago, if I recall.

Oh well, still... the scene is way worth it for the whole Hot Pockets thing.

[frog]

This is the way I understand it:

The X-Men's occupation of the Marin base is public knowledge. BUT, all the decomissioned military bases are underground, and the big elaborate "panic room" that they've built below the structure is secret.

My understanding is that as of now, everyone lives in Worthington Towers in downtown San Francisco, and "work" at Greymalkin Industries. Although I'm sure there are sleeping accomodations at Marin since it's implied Colossus is just waking up, and we see Beast making breakfast.

The Astonishing Sketchbook that was released earlier showed living quarters at the base, so I had assumed they would live there.

[Beast]

Yeah, there's already been some board drama over leaks of her conspicious absence.



The man's afraid of Hot Pockets yet binges on Twinkies? :biggrin:
I wouldn't know. I don't follow the drama. I was just surprised.

And please, Hot Pockets are horrible. Haven't you seen that comedian?

"Hot Pockets. Diarrhea Pockets. Light Hot Pockets, open package place directly in toilet."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zewDAa99Ns8

[Arkady Rossovich]

Maybe they were scattered while Greymalkin Industries was being built, but now that it's ready to go, they're going to live there?

[Dazzler]

Uh.

Oakland, huh?

Wow, not even I would go there for a Dazzler concert.

Serves Pixie and her little gay friend right. ;)

--Dazz

[Beast]

Maybe just snobby people like Warren, Scott, and Emma will live at the tower.

[jarrod]

Maybe they were scattered while Greymalkin Industries was being built, but now that it's ready to go, they're going to live there?
Maybe just the O5 (Scott, Warren, Hank, Bobby and Emma) get to live at the tower?

[Slung]

Maybe just the O5 (Scott, Warren, Hank, Bobby and Emma) get to live at the tower?

How. Dare. You.

[frog]

I'd think the tower would be the first target of an attack!

[cgar]

avengers have a tower. Fantastic 4 have a tower. well both buildings but same shiz. but yah seems better then last issue. but Lands art has no emotion

[Beast]

Indeed. Astonishing seems to indicate that Beast and Armor were at least staying at the base.

[Novaya Havoc]

Absolutely, 100% horrid issue.

I defended 500; I will NOT defend 501.

For one, gay bashing rubbed me the wrong way.
For second, attempting the gay bash on Karma DOUBLY-rubbed me the wrong way.

Land's art grated. Pornface Pixie got ENOUGH flak on the 500 cover -- did we need it when she was getting, well, mutie-bashed along with her gay friend?

NO Dazzler as promised.

And the RED QUEEN is as ridiculous now as it was when CC did it with DARK JEAN GREY in New Excalibur.

And Empath being a wimpy S&M bottom only adds fuel to the fire.

Sorry, but I hate to admit that the Magnemites were right about 500 and the "new direction." This was absolutely god-awful and doesn't pick up at ALL from 500.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Absolutely, 100% horrid issue.

I defended 500; I will NOT defend 501.

For one, gay bashing rubbed me the wrong way.
For second, attempting the gay bash on Karma DOUBLY-rubbed me the wrong way.

Land's art grated. Pornface Pixie got ENOUGH flak on the 500 cover -- did we need it when she was getting, well, mutie-bashed along with her gay friend?

NO Dazzler as promised.

And the RED QUEEN is as ridiculous now as it was when CC did it with DARK JEAN GREY in New Excalibur.

And Empath being a wimpy S&M bottom only adds fuel to the fire.

Sorry, but I hate to admit that the Magnemites were right about 500 and the "new direction." This was absolutely god-awful and doesn't pick up at ALL from 500.

You're right about Land's art. But Empath was always a wimp. And I fail to see how the opening scene was "gay bashing."

[frog]

The Karma scene actually sounded pretty good to me. That's an original take on the Fastball Special and Karma is obviously no victim.

I also like that it sounds like Nightcrawler, Colossus and Wolverine are still doing the friendly prankster stuff.

[Novaya Havoc]

And I fail to see how the opening scene was "gay bashing."

Better left unsaid. But it was and IS.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Better left unsaid. But it was and IS.

Well, I'm sure we're all assuming Pixie's friend is gay (he WAS at a Dazzler concert after all), but nowhere in the text is this stated. I'm sure the "mutie bashing" as a parallel to real life gay bashing was part of the story beat, but it's not like Bru/Fract glorified it in any way.

[Novaya Havoc]

Well, I'm sure we're all assuming Pixie's friend is gay.

Yep. I'm just assuming.

It will take a whole lot for me to get over THAT scene. I'm thinking Cyclops getting DP'd on a gay pride float through Castro with Dazzler marshalling the parade with Kylie Minogue as her back-up singer.

[jarrod]

How. Dare. You.
I'm sorry, I got confused. :frown:

[MasterOdin]

Why do I get the nagging feeling that Emma is going to end up pregnant soon?

[Cayman]

I love that Karma and Empath are getting some paneltime.

[frog]

Why do I get the nagging feeling that Emma is going to end up pregnant soon?

Months of angst over stretch marks!

[Cayman]

Gah, I hope not. Comic book pregnancies are the worst.

[Novaya Havoc]

I love that Karma and Empath are getting some paneltime.

Yes. Karma about to get lez-bashed and Empath chaining himself up to be dominated by the love-child of Shadow-X Jean Grey and Rouge-Mort = win!

[Beast]

Why do I get the nagging feeling that Emma is going to end up pregnant soon?
I think she's been preggers since Astonishing myself. But we'll see.

[Beast]

I love that Karma and Empath are getting some paneltime.
Agreed. And Maddy Pryor too... or at least that's who it appears to be. Yay!!

[Cayman]

Yes. Karma about to get lez-bashed and Empath chaining himself up to be dominated by the love-child of Shadow-X Jean Grey and Rouge-Mort = win!

But it was a ruse, and she turns the tables!

[Novaya Havoc]

But it was a ruse, and she turns the tables!

Yes. With Wolverine out in front defending her. She's so hardcore 1337.

She did not "turn the tables."

[Cayman]

Yes. With Wolverine out in front defending her. She's so hardcore 1337.

She did not "turn the tables."

Well it sounds like that's the last page. Maybe she gets to do more possessing as issue #502 begins.

[Novaya Havoc]

Well it sounds like that's the last page. Maybe she gets to do more possessing as issue #502 begins.

And Dazzler will appear! Like in, oh, this issue.

[Arkady Rossovich]

I don't get it.

Bad things happen to a (maybe) gay character, and almost happen to a gay character. Except the fact that they're gay had no bearing on this.

A non-issue.

[Novaya Havoc]

I don't get it.

Bad things happen to a (maybe) gay character, and almost happen to a gay character. Except the fact that they're gay had no bearing on this.

A non-issue.

Ask most of X-Cres if they care to comment on this.

[Cayman]

I just hope Karma doesn't immediately return to limbo after this.

[Beast]

I just hope Karma doesn't immediately return to limbo after this.
I hope not also. I like her.

That's what's great about the new format of Uncanny. No set team. So everyone gets some love.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Ask most of X-Cres if they care to comment on this.



And I'M saying that the supposed gay bashing is all in your head. Is that a straw man argument?

If the people in X-Cres want to "correct" me, they can go ahead, but I think you're making a big deal over nothing. It was MUTANT bashing. Maybe it evoked feelings of trepidation because it reminded you of gaybashing, and if that was the case the scene did its job. It was supposed to be brutal. What if it wasn't Karma acting as the decoy, but Surge (for example)? THEN that's okay, since Surge isn't gay? Come on.

[Cayman]

I would prefer to see Empath one day develop into a major nemesis for the X-Men rather than a henchman. He's awesome.

[Michael P]

I just hope Karma doesn't immediately return to limbo after this.

Well, she'll presumably be helping Wolverine kick some ass next issue. I mean, she's there, she might as well pitch in.

I gotta say, reading that summary, I dearly wish someone other than Greg Land was drawing this book, so that I could be reading it.

[Beast]

I would prefer to see Empath one day develop into a major nemesis for the X-Men rather than a henchman. He's awesome.
He was used pretty well in X-Men: The 198.

But then that was also under manipulation by "He Who Shall Not Be Named".

[DeniseXfrost]

Emma is so pregnant....and she doesn't get much panel time, there happy?

...The Red queen is definitely Maddie.

[DeniseXfrost]

Yeah the spoilers were neat. I think WBE has a competitor.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Nah, I'm too much of a lurker here to compete with worstblogever. If anything, the style I used was inspired by his.

[frog]

Nah, I'm too much of a lurker here to compete with worstblogever. If anything, the style I used was inspired by his.

I think WBE enjoys having someone else do the hard work once in a while!

Good job.

[lockerogue]

Karma gets some panel time. She is so going to take over the fight in the next issue.

[Beast]

I think WBE enjoys having someone else do the hard work once in a while!

Good job.
And it's someone who actually does a detailed and easy to read one. Yay.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

I'm skimming back over the issue, and I noticed that there's someone else in the scene where Cyclops enters the Greymalkin building. Due to Land's tendency to give everyone varying faces depending on the angle, I can't tell who the hell it's supposed to be.

Anyone else have the issue in hand?

[Anna]

Emma might use an illusion to hide the pregnancy until she's about to pop.

[Henry T.]

It's not about winning or losing.

But as a gay reader, It's annoying to see how often other gay readers jump at shadows.

And that everytime something bad happens to a gay character, it's Marvel's HATE at work.

But surely you must also note that gay and lesbian characters have such low visibility in Marvel comics and that is what causes the sensitivity of some fans to the gay and lesbian characters being killed or bashed.

Sure equal treatment means that they should be treated just like any other character with the good, the bad, and the ugly that comes with that.

But they are nowhere near being treated equally. There are very few gay and lesbian characters and they have been rarely used. Where are their big stories or their big romances? Most of them are relegated to C or D list characters. They don't get on panel kisses or love scenes like Scott and Emma do thats for sure.

It would be different if there were many gay and lesbian characters who were treated equally. Then if a few of them got killed or bashed it wouldn't be much of an issue.

[Beast]

So... back to the actual issue at hand.

Very cool to see Karma and Empath again. And even Maddy Pryor, depending if it's here and even what version of her it could be. Maybe the one from X-Man?

Hopefully we see some more of the often forgotten X-Men related characters. Like Avalanche!

[Nyssane]

Ugh, if Avalanche is ever used as a sex slave like that, Pyro will roll over in his grave with jealousy.

[Beast]

But surely you must also note that gay and lesbian characters have such low visibility in Marvel comics and that is what causes the sensitivity of some fans to the gay and lesbian characters being killed or bashed.

Sure equal treatment means that they should be treated just like any other character with the good, the bad, and the ugly that comes with that.

But they are nowhere near being treated equally. There are very few gay and lesbian characters and they have been rarely used. Where are their big stories or their big romances? Most of them are relegated to C or D list characters. They don't get on panel kisses or love scenes like Scott and Emma do thats for sure.

It would be different if there were many gay and lesbian characters who were treated equally. Then if a few of them got killed or bashed it wouldn't be much of an issue.
They're C and D list characters because of the fanbase. Not because of Marvel.

It's not like they sat around years ago and planned to invent Wolverine as an A-Lister.

Hell, when he was first introduced he was pretty much universally hated. Read the old letter pages.

And no, it will always be an issue. Look at Young Avengers. 2 major gays. Still get complaints.

[Arkady Rossovich]

But surely you must also note that gay and lesbian characters have such low visibility in Marvel comics and that is what causes the sensitivity of some fans to the gay and lesbian characters being killed or bashed.

Sure equal treatment means that they should be treated just like any other character with the good, the bad, and the ugly that comes with that.

But they are nowhere near being treated equally. There are very few gay and lesbian characters and they have been rarely used. Where are their big stories or their big romances? Most of them are relegated to C or D list characters. They don't get on panel kisses or love scenes like Scott and Emma do thats for sure.

It would be different if there were many gay and lesbian characters who were treated equally. Then if a few of them got killed or bashed it wouldn't be much of an issue.

Agreed. But.

We're complaining about a nameless cipher getting beat up for being the friend of a mutant. I mean, hell, as a straight guy, I could say I'm offended by everyone assuming that he's gay and assuming that THAT is the reason he got beaten up. Isn't that discrimination? And Karma didn't get beat up at all.

So while you're right, I still don't think it applies here. But, alas, I'm not doing anyone any good by continuing the argument.

[Beast]

Ugh, if Avalanche is ever used as a sex slave like that, Pyro will roll over in his grave with jealousy.
Poor Pyro. I was so hoping that House of M would have been a way of bringing him back.

[Arkady Rossovich]

I wasn't even aware that the person in this issue was Empath until the Red Queen said his name. Land makes him look completely different than in his most recent appearance (198 I believe). So maybe Avalanche WAS in this issue as a random peon.

[Henry T.]

They're C and D list characters because of the fanbase. Not because of Marvel.

It's not like they sat around years ago and planned to invent Wolverine as an A-Lister.

Hell, when he was first introduced he was pretty much universally hated. Read the old letter pages.

And no, it will always be an issue. Look at Young Avengers. 2 major gays. Still get complaints.

They don't even get a chance to develop large fanbases because they are rarely used. They don't get good or big major stories and they are not effectively promoted.

Didn't Chuck Austen say that the higher ups said that they had to remove Northstar from the core X-Men teams?

In the past they've had policies against gay characters or gay affection haven't they?

Of course its beginning to change but as I've said they are still nowhere near equal treatment.

Anyways, I wasn't offended by the bashing in Uncanny #501 (I saw the advanced copy last week too) because I saw it as a deliberate analogy to gay bashing rather than explicitly gay bashing itself.

But I do understand why it upsets some fans. And I definitely don't think gay characters are treated equally.

I think Queen Jean went by Red Queen in X-Man so we will have to see whether this is Madelyne Pryor or an alternate reality version of Jean.

I'm interested in how they explain her return and how Scott and Emma will deal with it.

Scott and Emma nauseated me in this issue though.

[Beast]

Scott and Emma nauseate me most of the time. So we can at least agree on that.

[Dazzler]

They don't even get a chance to develop large fanbases because they are rarely used. They don't get good or big major stories and they are not effectively promoted.

Didn't Chuck Austen say that the higher ups said that they had to remove Northstar from the core X-Men teams?

In the past they've had policies against gay characters or gay affection haven't they?

Of course its beginning to change but as I've said they are still nowhere near equal treatment.

Anyways, I wasn't offended by the bashing in Uncanny #501 (I saw the advanced copy last week too) because I saw it as a deliberate analogy to gay bashing rather than explicitly gay bashing itself.

But I do understand why it upsets some fans. And I definitely don't think gay characters are treated equally.


Okay, you managed to say everything I was thinking without any of the snark I would have if I had actually posted on the subject. Thanks! :)

--Dazz

[Bamf25]

Having only read the preview, and reading the instant reaction here, my guess is the scene (if we want to admit it because of land or not) work. It was supposed to be like a biased attack vs any group, gay or otherwise. What we have is simply an unkown character which many have interprted as gay getting cuaght up in a mutant biased attack. People are reading into this what they want to see, if somebody wants to see part of it as a gay attack they are going to.

There is no eveidence what that guy is at all. So take it for what you will, it was a violent sequence getting an emotional responce. We will all apply our personal biases to the scene and are free to reach our own conclusions. Chastizing for this is pointless.

[Dazzler]

Having only read the preview, and reading the instant reaction here, my guess is the scene (if we want to admit it because of land or not) work. It was supposed to be like a biased attack vs any group, gay or otherwise. What we have is simply an unkown character which many have interprted as gay getting cuaght up in a mutant biased attack. People are reading into this what they want to see, if somebody wants to see part of it as a gay attack they are going to.

There is no eveidence what that guy is at all. So take it for what you will, it was a violent sequence getting an emotional responce. We will all apply our personal biases to the scene and are free to reach our own conclusions. Chastizing for this is pointless.

I think what irritates me so much is that people are purposely not willing to listen that this scene is almost certainly supposed to be an analogy to gay bashings: a femme-ish guy and a fairy in San Francisco going through something that is at the forefront of every gay person's mind in their daily lives. It's not very subtle that it's supposed to be a stand-in for a gay bashing. I find it incredibly insulting that people are willing to be stead-fastly opposed or disinterested for what this scene stands for and whatever kind of awareness it could bring is just thrown out the window.
Instead of fighting tooth and nail and excusing the subtext away, why not just roll with it and say, "Yeah, it's a stand-in for a gay bashing....that sucks."

I don't think it's a hateful scene...just the opposite: I think it's powerful and interesting, but unfortunately it's being lost on a lot of people because of their unwillingness to think about what it means.

Axel Alonso was just here in town at one of the comic shops I go to and I don't think as a native San Franciscan he would be willing to let a hateful scene in....he knows better. I think if anything, he would be more than happy to let some of that thing that San Francisco is known world over for (it's Queerness) come shining through. After all, isn't that why the X-men came here in the first place? To let their own brand of Queer fly forefront without inhibition?

--Dazz

[Arkady Rossovich]

I think what irritates me so much is that people are purposely not willing to listen that this scene is almost certainly supposed to be an analogy to gay bashings: a femme-ish guy and a fairy in San Francisco going through something that is at the forefront of every gay person's mind in their daily lives. It's not very subtle that it's supposed to be a stand-in for a gay bashing. I find it incredibly insulting that people are willing to be stead-fastly opposed or disinterested for what this scene stands for and whatever kind of awareness it could bring is just thrown out the window.
Instead of fighting tooth and nail and excusing the subtext away, why not just roll with it and say, "Yeah, it's a stand-in for a gay bashing....that sucks."

I don't think it's a hateful scene...just the opposite: I think it's powerful and interesting, but unfortunately it's being lost on a lot of people because of their unwillingness to think about what it means.

Axel Alonso was just here in town at one of the comic shops I go to and I don't think as a native San Franciscan he would be willing to let a hateful scene in....he knows better. I think if anything, he would be more than happy to let some of that thing that San Francisco is known world over for (it's Queerness) come shining through. After all, isn't that why the X-men came here in the first place? To let their own brand of Queer fly forefront without inhibition?

--Dazz

I feel that I'm being included as one of the people who is unwilling to think about what it means. I was very clear from the beginning in my opinion -- the scene was more than likely a parallel to gaybashing. Which is terrible. But the captions show utter disdain. Cyclops and the rest of the X-Men vow to punish those who did it. It's not glorified in any way, shape, or form. We shouldn't be mad at Bru/Fraction.....we should be mad at the fictional characters who did such a terrible deed.

Goodnight, everybody.

[Dazzler]

I feel that I'm being included as one of the people who is unwilling to think about what it means. I was very clear from the beginning in my opinion -- the scene was more than likely a parallel to gaybashing. Which is terrible. But the captions show utter disdain. Cyclops and the rest of the X-Men vow to punish those who did it. It's not glorified in any way, shape, or form. We shouldn't be mad at Bru/Fraction.....we should be mad at the fictional characters who did such as terrible deed.

I don't think I was referencing you specifically, no. :confused:

Especially not if that's your opinion, since I completely agree. Mostly I was referring to some people who refuse to even entertain the notion that the scene was supposed to be a parallel to a gay-bashing.

I don't find the inclusion of the scene horrible or hateful. I find the characters horrible and hateful. I find the X-Men standing up to kick their asses great.

--Dazz

[steve2275]

good goin ak ross

[Bamf25]

I don't find the inclusion of the scene horrible or hateful. I find the characters horrible and hateful. I find the X-Men standing up to kick their asses great.

--DazzI think the references to gay bashing were very obvious, but understand how some do not see or do not want to see that in the scene. Like I already said, people see things differently everywhere. As for being hateful, The attackers were hateful, making readers sympathetic to those attacked and seeing characters wanting to fight back is positive. I think the potential for good exceeds the bad in the scene. It was ment to be a shocking sequence, guess what it worked.

[CMBMOOL]

I must say it was kind of normal to see the X-men try to relax for once. :eek:

Still they brought back Karma, one of the former New mutants in this issue ?!?:eek:

I can't wait to see what's will happen next. :eek:

Also I can't believe that Beast, the smartest X-men, couldn't cook a hot pocket. :frown:

[Beast]

Also I can't believe that Beast, the smartest X-men, couldn't cook a hot pocket. :frown:
It wasn't that he can't cook one. It's that he's horrified by them.

Anyone who has actually eaten one can certainly understand his horror.

[For the Good of X]

I think she's been preggers since Astonishing myself. But we'll see.

I always thought that's what her secret was that Danger threatened her about. Even though apparently it turned out to be something else? I can't remember it's been so long since those issues....

[Timeslip]

It wasn't that he can't cook one. It's that he's horrified by them.

Anyone who has actually eaten one can certainly understand his horror.

I happen to find Hot Pockets (Lean Pockets actually) quite tasty.

I liked this issue. Good to see Karma back. I hope she stays around.

[Bronze Badger]

Listen to Jim Gaffigan's take on HotPockets. It'll change your perspective.

[CMBMOOL]

It wasn't that he can't cook one. It's that he's horrified by them.

Anyone who has actually eaten one can certainly understand his horror.

I ate some and it wasn't that bad enough to eat. :frown:

[Beast]

I always thought that's what her secret was that Danger threatened her about. Even though apparently it turned out to be something else? I can't remember it's been so long since those issues....
I don't think it was ever made entirely clear what the secret was that Danger whispered.

Mostly cause Whedon left a ton of danglers from his run flapping in the breeze.

[tetragene]

I thought it was pretty good, then again I had no problems with #500 either. The Scott/Emma sex stuff is getting a bit much--we get it already, they f*ck a lot. The only thing of interest I think would come of it is Emma actually getting pregnant--and then being torn between possibly birthing a new mutant to give hope that thei race will continue or not wanting to be pregnant becayse she wants to clutch to her heroine role (and to a vain extent--her perfect figure). THAT might make all the sex scenes worth it.

The Red Queen thing is...I dunno. I'm unsure about it. I loved Madelyn Pryor a lot in the Outback years--but I hated them bringing her back in X-Man and I imagine bringing her back in UXM will be a mess too. We'll see though.

the Pixie & friend bashing thing. While I don't share Ben's disdain for the particular scene, I wish they would quit pussy-footing around with the gay allusions in relation to mutandom. Either make the parallel so strong no one can deny it or don't do it at all. Subtly has its placed but IMHO it's not there. From the leaked scripts making the rounds we know the character was supposed to be gay and we know he was attacked for being gay--but by the time the story was printed it was changed so that it's more a "you see it if you want to see it, you don't see it if you don't want to" thing. That's what irks me about it--not the bashing itself which, I agree, isn't glorified at all. It's the watering down of why one of them was attacked. He wasn't beaten to a bloody pulp for being mutant's friend, he was attacked for being gay & a mutant's friend--a dual offender to the Hellfire Cult--at least judging by the original script. They stronger parallel would have been for them to leave the "queer" insults in, side-by-side with the "mutie" insults. As it is it's so subtle you have people who still can't draw a parallel between the two.

Very disappointed at no Dazzler appearing despite months of being promised she would... :mad:

still looking forward to the rest though. I just hope this Jean/Maddie thing goes somewhere most will be pleased with.

[Beast]

Listen to Jim Gaffigan's take on HotPockets. It'll change your perspective.
Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNiDTNE_KA

[Rachel Grey]

Getting back to the important bit, were there any clues as to wether the Red Queen was Maddie, Shadow-X Jean or another character entirely?

[worstblogever]

Yeah the spoilers were neat. I think WBE has a competitor.

It's not a competition. It's about making summaries people can actually garner accurate information from. In all reality, I might develop a man-crush.

Nah, I'm too much of a lurker here to compete with worstblogever. If anything, the style I used was inspired by his.

I appreciate the compliment.

I think WBE enjoys having someone else do the hard work once in a while!

Good job.

Yeah, I really could use a breather. Seriously.

And it's someone who actually does a detailed and easy to read one. Yay.

Agreed. If all his summaries go like this, he can beat me to the punch any day.



Now, enough about the summary's quality, about what got me thinking in the issue?

- The discussion of Beast's manual dexterity perplexed me, because this is the first time he even really was having problems with his paws in some time. But yet, he says now it's better... are they hinting at the return of "Ape Beast"?

- Cyclops' behavior through the X-books seems so inconsistent. He's at most, duplicitous. In X-Force, he creates a secret X-team dedicate to outright assassinating threats to the X-Men. Then, in Uncanny, he announces to all mutants, friend and foe, that he has set up shop in San Fran. Which, means it'll be a secret from S.H.I.E.L.D. and SHRA how long, exactly? And more importantly, what's the strategy in telling your enemies where you are, just to gather some possible friends? This is the same guy who founded X-Force, saying the X-Men gave too many people second chances. Is he trying to sucker enemies out into the open, in the process, leaving mutants like Pixie out as bait as they're a part of the new school?

Editorial keeps telling us he's always right. Scott has been known to deceive the public before, in the early days of X-Factor, as a noted example. I'm just wondering what his plan is here. He's got one, I just can't nail it down because of how inconsistent he's acted.

- Empath and a Red Queen (I want to say it's Maddie, but all redheads look like Jean when Greg Land draws them) as the big 2 in the Hellfire Cult. I'm wondering what their agenda is by causing mutants such a beatdown. Do they want to hurt the X-Men, or drive them clean out of San Fran. And if it is Maddie, we should remember that she was once shot up all to hell in San Francisco by the Marauders once upon a time... she knows the town.


The confusion I have based off of the one issue, and the conflicting portrayals of all things X in Astonishing, Uncanny, and X-Force, combined with abysmal Greg Land porn trace would have me give the issue a 6/10. It's passable, but that's about as kind as I can be.

[LawGiver]

I thought it was pretty good, then again I had no problems with #500 either. The Scott/Emma sex stuff is getting a bit much--we get it already, they f*ck a lot. The only thing of interest I think would come of it is Emma actually getting pregnant--and then being torn between possibly birthing a new mutant to give hope that thei race will continue or not wanting to be pregnant becayse she wants to clutch to her heroine role (and to a vain extent--her perfect figure). THAT might make all the sex scenes worth it.

The Red Queen thing is...I dunno. I'm unsure about it. I loved Madelyn Pryor a lot in the Outback years--but I hated them bringing her back in X-Man and I imagine bringing her back in UXM will be a mess too. We'll see though.

the Pixie & friend bashing thing. While I don't share Ben's disdain for the particular scene, I wish they would quit pussy-footing around with the gay allusions in relation to mutandom. Either make the parallel so strong no one can deny it or don't do it at all. Subtly has its placed but IMHO it's not there. From the leaked scripts making the rounds we know the character was supposed to be gay and we know he was attacked for being gay--but by the time the story was printed it was changed so that it's more a "you see it if you want to see it, you don't see it if you don't want to" thing. That's what irks me about it--not the bashing itself which, I agree, isn't glorified at all. It's the watering down of why one of them was attacked. He wasn't beaten to a bloody pulp for being mutant's friend, he was attacked for being gay & a mutant's friend--a dual offender to the Hellfire Cult--at least judging by the original script. They stronger parallel would have been for them to leave the "queer" insults in, side-by-side with the "mutie" insults. As it is it's so subtle you have people who still can't draw a parallel between the two.

Very disappointed at no Dazzler appearing despite months of being promised she would... :mad:

still looking forward to the rest though. I just hope this Jean/Maddie thing goes somewhere most will be pleased with.

I agree with the majority of this post.

I thought the whipping of Empath was quite stupid and I really question why they needed to show that scene. Was it to show how dominate the Red Queen is over her subjects? Was it to show who's in charge? I just don't quite get yet why that was the way we needed to be shown that.

Otherwise I thought it was a good follow-up to #500, which I enjoyed very much.

Even Greg Land's art is starting to grow on me, Angel flying from the car looked drawn, not traced.

Look forward to the next issue, hopefully we'll see some good Karma fight scenes.

[Beast]

- The discussion of Beast's manual dexterity perplexed me, because this is the first time he even really was having problems with his paws in some time. But yet, he says now it's better... are they hinting at the return of "Ape Beast"?
Well... Agent Brand has been 'Tinkering Extensively With Him'. :wink:

[nikbackm]

- Cyclops' behavior through the X-books seems so inconsistent. He's at most, duplicitous. In X-Force, he creates a secret X-team dedicate to outright assassinating threats to the X-Men. Then, in Uncanny, he announces to all mutants, friend and foe, that he has set up shop in San Fran. Which, means it'll be a secret from S.H.I.E.L.D. and SHRA how long, exactly? And more importantly, what's the strategy in telling your enemies where you are, just to gather some possible friends? This is the same guy who founded X-Force, saying the X-Men gave too many people second chances. Is he trying to sucker enemies out into the open, in the process, leaving mutants like Pixie out as bait as they're a part of the new school?


But what would the alternative to "coming out" be? I don't think it would be realistic for them to stay hidden forever unless they went underground (perhaps even literally!) and stayed there. But what purpose would that serve?

[Keith_Martineau]

I don't get it.

Bad things happen to a (maybe) gay character, and almost happen to a gay character. Except the fact that they're gay had no bearing on this.

A non-issue.

I don't get it either. Villains attacked a mutant and a gay person, and later another gay person.
The bad guys did it.
How does that equal gay bashing?
Especially in a comic that is a metaphor for people who are discriminated against?
The X-Men are going to STOP these people for what they did.

A gay was bashed (in the literal sense, not verbal sense) along side a mutant, and the X-Men go to stop them.
And all you see is gay bashing? All you choose to see is that Marvel is gay bashing?
You don't see that gay (and mutant) bashing is being shown in a villainous, negative light and that the people perpetrating it are going to be stopped?
If you don't like the issue, s'fine---but I am honestly and legitimately curious how all you see is gay bashing, and not the plot where the bashers are going to be curb-stomped.

[Rachel Grey]

- The discussion of Beast's manual dexterity perplexed me, because this is the first time he even really was having problems with his paws in some time. But yet, he says now it's better... are they hinting at the return of "Ape Beast"?

I hope so, especially if Beast gets back to being happier than he has been for quite a while.

[worstblogever]

Well... Agent Brand has been 'Tinkering Extensively With Him'. :wink:

Good times.

But what would the alternative to "coming out" be? I don't think it would be realistic for them to stay hidden forever unless they went underground (perhaps even literally!) and stayed there. But what purpose would that serve?

It's impossible to hide that many people, agreed. Especially after they help save the city in Secret Invasion. But when they're all cruising around in sportscars Warren got them? That doesn't tell the humans, "I'm just like you." That could tell them, "We have more money and more power, therefore, we're better than you." It really sends the wrong message, IMO. Worse, it makes them an easy target to strike at. They're not just saying "We're here," now. They're practically daring people to come take a shot at them.

But at the same time, they're a "haven to preserve our race".

And at the same time, Cyclops is ordering those he deems irredeemable to be killed outright.

That's what I mean. It's just all so contradictory, and I'm trying to connect the dots. It isn't washing as a tentpole mission statement. It almost seems like the 3 X-books (4 if I count S.I.) are taking place in different Marvel Earths almost. Only the casts are the same, but not their motives.

[Icegod]

Agreed. But.

We're complaining about a nameless cipher getting beat up for being the friend of a mutant. I mean, hell, as a straight guy, I could say I'm offended by everyone assuming that he's gay and assuming that THAT is the reason he got beaten up. Isn't that discrimination? And Karma didn't get beat up at all.

So while you're right, I still don't think it applies here. But, alas, I'm not doing anyone any good by continuing the argument.

Pixie seemsto be pretty boy crazy. I see no indaction from the previews that her male companion was gay. In fact, the very fact that hes hanging around Pixie leads me to believe hes probably straight.

[darknessatnoon]

LOL. Apparently the Hellfire Cultists have better gaydar than some of the posters here.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the Red Queen once a month for the foreseeable future.

[Beast]

Good times.
Yes. Yes they are. I'd rather see more about them as a couple than Scott and Emma.

Where's the barfing emoticon when you need one. :mad:

[tetragene]

Pixie seemsto be pretty boy crazy. I see no indaction from the previews that her male companion was gay. In fact, the very fact that hes hanging around Pixie leads me to believe hes probably straight.

if that was a straight guy spouting "Oh. My. God" and "pop and freak, pop, pop & freak" then he deserves to have his straight card revoked--ASAP! :tongue: :wink:

but seriously--as has been mentioned the leaked original script has popped up on the net if you know where to look--he was very much intended to be gay.

[Beast]

Was he? I thought the leaked script had one of the Hellfire Cult use a gay slur in regard to him.

Not actually confirming or indicating that he actually was gay.

[darknessatnoon]

Was he? I thought the leaked script had one of the Hellfire Cult refer to him as gay.

Not actually confirming or indicating that he actually was gay.

You don't have to actually be gay to be gay bashed. All you need is for people to think you are. And for them to be self-hating enough.

[streator]

does anyone have scans of karma from this issue?

[Beast]

You don't have to actually be gay to be gay bashed. All you need is for people to think you are. And for them to be self-hating enough.
I don't recall saying anywhere that you did.

But the folks doing the beating are a bunch of racists already.

So tossing a slur at some kid who's hanging out with a dirty mutie isn't shocking.

[AcesX1X]

LOL

If I saw a dude walking down the street raving about a pop princess....all-the-while hanging with a pink-haired chick with fairy wings, and NOT trying to make out with said fairy?

Yeah, lol. Serious denial on some folks parts.

http://limerlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ii-m-not-gay-posters.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

I don't recall saying anywhere that you did.

But the folks doing the beating are a bunch of racists already.

So tossing a slur at some kid who's hanging out with a dirty mutie isn't shocking.

That scene is pretty shocking, Beast. I guess you are far more stoic than me if you don't have as much a visceral reaction. If you didn't have to get up and walk around after reading it, then you are the far stronger man.

[Dazzler]

LOL

If I saw a dude walking down the street raving about a pop princess....all-the-while hanging with a pink-haired chick with fairy wings, and NOT trying to make out with said fairy?

Yeah, lol. Serious denial on some folks parts.

http://limerlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ii-m-not-gay-posters.jpg

YOU just made my Christmas card list.

The amount of denial going on in pretty laughable.

I mean, seriously. "They used a gay slur, but how did they know he was gay?" HA.

They called Pixie a mutie, but how did they know she was a mutant....? I mean, it's San Francisco. I just saw a chick with fairy wings on my way to the comic store...

--Dazz

[tetragene]

Was he? I thought the leaked script had one of the Hellfire Cult use a gay slur in regard to him.

Not actually confirming or indicating that he actually was gay.

well, taking into account we know the writers read the message board (and as revealed by Jim McCann they DO read the Dazzler thread), the dialogue the character had (I'm sorry, I'm not into stereotypes but WTF kind of straight guy talks like that?), the intended real-world parallel the bashing was meant to illustrate, the slur that was omitted... 2 + 2 = 4.

the character sounded as if he could have been Novaya or Affinity immortalized in a comic book... lol

[Beast]

That scene is pretty shocking, Beast. I guess you are far more stoic than me if you don't have as much a visceral reaction. If you didn't have to get up and walk around after reading it, then you are the far stronger man.
It's a comic book. They're fictional characters.

Sure it's a shocking scene, I never said it wasn't. But it's part of the story.

[Icegod]

I don't recall saying anywhere that you did.

But the folks doing the beating are a bunch of racists already.

So tossing a slur at some kid who's hanging out with a dirty mutie isn't shocking.

Exactly, these people who are committing this atrocious act are not supposed to be good people. Its a comic book, bad things happen to both gay and straight characters.

[darknessatnoon]

well, taking into account we know the writers read the message board (and as revealed by Jim McCann they DO read the Dazzler thread), the dialogue the character had (I'm sorry, I'm not into stereotypes but WTF kind of straight guy talks like that?), the intended real-world parallel the bashing was meant to illustrate, the slur that was omitted... 2 + 2 = 4.

the character sounded as if he could have been Novaya or Affinity immortalized in a comic book... lol

It was more than a gay bashing. It was a straight up gay CBR Dazzler fan bashing. Which is worse, actually.

[AcesX1X]

It sounds like disturbing imagery for sure!

I'm going to reserve my judgment over the content until after I see what the other X-Men's reaction to this is.

If this is another one of Cyclops' "They'll pay for this!" and then he goes and has sex with Emma again and forgets all about it, then I'll def. be more than upset.

But, if the X-Men make them pay AND reference the fairy-beating somewhere while they do it, then Pixie and her gay friend will be vindicated. I would not be upset, because then Marvel would be doing a good thing to show how that type of violent behavior and prejudice is wrong.

[darknessatnoon]

Exactly, these people who are committing this atrocious act are not supposed to be good people. Its a comic book, bad things happen to both gay and straight characters.

Technically, Empath and Maddie are both former X-Men so it's not faceless bad guys doing this stuff. Anyway, CC style shock tactics are nothing new to Uncanny writers. I feel like Matt Fraction read way too many DDM posts in his research to figure out what appeals to X-Men fans.

[darknessatnoon]

But, if the X-Men make them pay AND reference the fairy-beating somewhere while they do it, then Pixie and her gay friend will be vindicated. I would not be upset, because then Marvel would be doing a good thing to show how that type of violent behavior and prejudice is wrong.

We already know it's wrong. Someone who doesn't know it's wrong already is probably an asshole who is not going to be enlightened by Uncanny X-Men. That and the pornoriffic nature of the scene and the oversexualization of the rest of the plot is really disturbing.

[Gene M.]

It sounds like disturbing imagery for sure!
Greg Land drew it. Of course the imagery will look disturbing.

[Beast]

well, taking into account we know the writers read the message board (and as revealed by Jim McCann they DO read the Dazzler thread), the dialogue the character had (I'm sorry, I'm not into stereotypes but WTF kind of straight guy talks like that?), the intended real-world parallel the bashing was meant to illustrate, the slur that was omitted... 2 + 2 = 4.
A closeted gay guy? Like Iceman. :biggrin:

I'm sure that Brubaker and Fraction were trying to make the Hellfire Cult as hated as possible on the boards. And wanted to be evocative of the horror of a true hate crime, much like back in the day in Uncanny when Xavier was nearly beaten to death after a lecture. So that when the X-Men kick their collective asses in the next issue it will be a joyous experience. I know I'll be rooting for them to teach them a lesson.

[worstblogever]

I know a straight guy who once went to a Michael Bolton concert with a girl who was a fan, and incredibly turned on by Bolton, in the hopes it'd get her in the mood and get him laid.

It worked.

Anyway, I could believe Dazzler would get Pixie's motor runnin' the same way. Still, if the original intent of the writers was to make this scene more reminiscent of a gay-bashing, only to have editorial water it down to the point where it's more alluded to, than anything...

-You can say editorial had good taste and wisdom to not take the story in that direction, and tone it down.

- You can say editorial was wrong to not think we're adult enough to take a graphic image of a hate crime as a means to clearly indicate how evil the villains are, and how brutal, graphic, and terrible a crime against someone for sexual or racial differences can be.

- You can lay all the blame on the writer for thinking that sort of portrayal does little to get people to stand against the behavior of a hate crime, and in all reality, does little but make it seem pedestrian and commonplace, and cause it to become all the more common when it could potentially be mimicked by readers.

- You can say the writers were bold for trying to show the ugliness of hate, and editorial was wrong for toning it down.

Now, all my feeling about this subject, I have mixed emotions. For me, there is no "right" way to depict this scene. It's ugly, and whether it's diluted, or omitted altogether, to make it not as bad is irrelevant. There was no way the scene could be portrayed without this link between the two moments being made, as long as a mutant was involved in it, since a longtime allegory in X-books of symbolism has included "mutant = gay". And so soon into their journey to San Fran, where months ago, we had a thread to celebrate their move to the "Gayborhood".

The fact that Karma is used as bait? Adding fuel to the fire? Well, she doesn't get hit. Maybe Karma took it personally and volunteered. Maybe Karma starts kicking *ss next issue, and realizes once she possesses one of them, that Empath is in play. We don't know yet.

The important thing, in the end, is that it's clear, the people who are supposedly gay-bashing are clearly the villains. There's nothing revered in their actions. Are they being milked for effect, and glamourizing it? I don't see these guys getting money, women, or self-respect for what they do to Pixie and friend. They're just being milked for blind hatred. They're slaves to Empath. They're a means to the ends of the Hellfire Cult. Whatever those ends might be.

So I'm going to not applaud this by any means, since there were a lot of other ways the Hellfire Cult could have made their move. Whatever agenda Marvel might have, or the writers or editors? I don't read into it that much. If they have one, this issue is not the #1 piece of evidence to expose it.

That's my $0.02.

[Pro]

That's what I mean. It's just all so contradictory, and I'm trying to connect the dots. It isn't washing as a tentpole mission statement. It almost seems like the 3 X-books (4 if I count S.I.) are taking place in different Marvel Earths almost. Only the casts are the same, but not their motives.

"friends and foes,come to San francisco and be save but if you're a foe I'll sick my kill squad on your arse but i won't tell my friends about it because they would drop me like a brick but i'm a badass leader guy who is Charles Xavier's heir even though i betrayed his dream and while we're sucking up the people in san francisco i'm having my best friends and my girlfriend buy real estate no one else can afford or could buy if they had the money because why in gods name would any city allow a millitant group with a criminal record up the wazoo hunted by racist organisations, government institutes and every single superhero in the initiative to buy up a frigging militariy installation in the middle of a nature reserve and allow them to install "defensive turrets" aimed at the bay area? Why? Because I'm Cyclops and I rock because my editors say so".

[AcesX1X]

We already know it's wrong. Someone who doesn't know it's wrong already is probably an asshole who is not going to be enlightened by Uncanny X-Men. That and the pornoriffic nature of the scene and the oversexualization of the rest of the plot is really disturbing.

This is a good point too.

On Land, icks! Why is everyone's mouth wide open? It's too inappropriate. I asked about this on an X-Position and it was never submitted to the x-editors.

[worstblogever]

"friends and foes,come to San francisco and be save but if you're a foe I'll sick my kill squad on your arse but i won't tell my friends about it because they would drop me like a brick but i'm a badass leader guy who is Charles Xavier's heir even though i betrayed his dream and while we're sucking up the people in san francisco i'm having my best friends and my girlfriend buy real estate no one else can afford or could buy if they had the money because why in gods name would any city allow a millitant group with a criminal record up the wazoo hunted by racist organisations, government institutes and every single superhero in the initiative to buy up a frigging militariy installation in the middle of a nature reserve and allow them to install "defensive turrets" aimed at the bay area? Why? Because I'm Cyclops and I rock because my editors say so".

Yeah, I'd say that about covers my feelings, Pro. :redface:

It's a bit all over the place.

[protogarrett]

They are teasing me with Karma, having her be there but not using her powers or becoming part of the team.

Karma is their secretary, but I guess all groups need background staff.

Also - Red Queen. This just... god damn it. *sigh*

[Timeslip]

It was more than a gay bashing. It was a straight up gay CBR Dazzler fan bashing. Which is worse, actually.

This part is so arrogant to me. Marvel did not create this character to represent the CBR Dazzler gays.

Is he gay? Probably. Is he supposed to be one of the dozen Dazzler fans on one message board forum on the entire internet? Probably not.

It was a tough scene to see...but it is supposed to be. Both the nameless kid and Pixie being beaten was tough to watch. Villains are evil..shocker I know.

[darknessatnoon]

A closeted gay guy? Like Iceman. :biggrin:

I'm sure that Brubaker and Fraction were trying to make the Hellfire Cult as hated as possible on the boards. And wanted to be evokative of the horror of a true hate crime, much like back in the day when Xavier was nearly beaten to death after a lecture. So that when the X-Men kick their collective asses in the next issue it will be a joyous experience.

I don't think catharsis works that way at all. When you have such an unsubtle and offensive moment, if anything, all it does is throw readers out of their narrative absorption and cause them to resent the writers. I'm sure that's what they intended, but in my mind that kind of faux social commentary as a plot hook is both too heavy-handed and devoid of real content apart from 'prejudice is not a good thing.' It all reads as a serious miscalculation to me.

[Beast]

Technically, Empath and Maddie are both former X-Men so it's not faceless bad guys doing this stuff. Anyway, CC style shock tactics are nothing new to Uncanny writers. I feel like Matt Fraction read way too many DDM posts in his research to figure out what appeals to X-Men fans.
Empath was never an actual X-Man. He worked for X-Corporation, completely different sort of thing.

And it depends which version of Maddy it is. From the sound of it it's the AU Maddy from X-Man.

[Timeslip]

They are teasing me with Karma, having her be there but not using her powers or becoming part of the team.

Karma is their secretary, but I guess all groups need background staff.

Also - Red Queen. This just... god damn it. *sigh*

Karma shows her power effect on the last page.

[darknessatnoon]

This part is so arrogant to me. Marvel did not create this character to represent the CBR Dazzler gays.

Is he gay? Probably. Is he supposed to be one of the dozen Dazzler fans on one message board forum on the entire internet? Probably not.

It was a tough scene to see...but it is supposed to be. Both the nameless kid and Pixie being beaten was tough to watch. Villains are evil..shocker I know.

LOL, I don't care if you think it's arrogant or not. It's pretty obvious if you are familiar with the interchange between the boards and some people at Marvel.

[Beast]

Greg Land drew it. Of course the imagery will look disturbing.
*Claps* You win at the internet.

[protogarrett]

"friends and foes,come to San francisco and be save but if you're a foe I'll sick my kill squad on your arse but i won't tell my friends about it because they would drop me like a brick but i'm a badass leader guy who is Charles Xavier's heir even though i betrayed his dream and while we're sucking up the people in san francisco i'm having my best friends and my girlfriend buy real estate no one else can afford or could buy if they had the money because why in gods name would any city allow a millitant group with a criminal record up the wazoo hunted by racist organisations, government institutes and every single superhero in the initiative to buy up a frigging militariy installation in the middle of a nature reserve and allow them to install "defensive turrets" aimed at the bay area? Why? Because I'm Cyclops and I rock because my editors say so".

Because it's a comic where people have superpowers and you just have to accept it. Deal.

[Beast]

This part is so arrogant to me. Marvel did not create this character to represent the CBR Dazzler gays.

Is he gay? Probably. Is he supposed to be one of the dozen Dazzler fans on one message board forum on the entire internet? Probably not.

It was a tough scene to see...but it is supposed to be. Both the nameless kid and Pixie being beaten was tough to watch. Villains are evil..shocker I know.
Well said. As if Marvel, Brubaker, or Fraction are actually taking a shot at the fanbase. Absurd.

[Timeslip]

LOL, I don't care if you think it's arrogant or not. It's pretty obvious if you are familiar with the interchange between the boards and some people at Marvel.

All too familiar. Still arrogant to think some nameless kid is based off of the CBR Dazzler gays.

[AcesX1X]

Karma also does really well as support staff. I'm happy to see her in any fashion....well, except at the end of a baseball bat. :confused:

Personally, I think any hope of her character doing anything more was snubbed the day they made Psylocke Asian.

[darknessatnoon]

All too familiar. Still arrogant to think some nameless kid is based off of the CBR Dazzler gays.

hmmmm, you don't seem like a new poster. Do you enjoy reading about Magneto, by chance?

[worstblogever]

Well said. As if Marvel, Brubaker, or Fraction are actually taking a shot at the fanbase. Absurd.

Alright, I'll play along. Let's look at it this way, what's the writer's intent?

To get a fanbase to feel like they're being told, "@#$% you guys, and quit asking for Dazzler, or we'll beat your gay heads indirectly through symbolism in the comic to make ourselves seem like demigods who make your comics!"

Or, the much more logical, "We're going to show a portion of the fanbase how screwed up our new villain team is, by having them beat the crap out of a innocent human character that a portion of our fanbase can easily relate to, and sympathise with, within a few panels of his appearance."

I'd like to think their intent was to do the latter, since the former is kind of counterproductive to keeping sales.

[Beast]

Alright, I'll play along. Let's look at it this way, what's the writer's intent?

To get a fanbase to feel like they're being told, "@#$% you guys, and quit asking for Dazzler, or we'll beat your gay heads indirectly through symbolism in the comic to make ourselves seem like demigods who make your comics!"

Or, the much more logical, "We're going to show a portion of the fanbase how screwed up our new villain team is, by having them beat the crap out of a innocent human character that a portion of our fanbase can easily relate to, and sympathise with, within a few panels of his appearance."

I'd like to think their intent was to do the latter, since the former is kind of counterproductive to keeping sales.
Well said my friend.

[Novaya Havoc]

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the Red Queen once a month for the foreseeable future.

LOLOLOLOL! Win.

[worstblogever]

Well said my friend.

I still might not agree with what was written on-panel, but thanks, yeah. I have no doubt in my mind that they did it with the purpose of alienating the fanbase.

[MartinRedmond]

I think what's appaling is that Northstar can't be a full member but showing a beating is acceptable.

[Beast]

I think what's appaling is that Northstar can't be a full member but showing a beating is acceptable.
It's comic books. People get beaten up all the time.

And Northstar was supposed to be a full member of Carey's X-Men.

Unfortunatly both he and Aurora were under embargo due to a plan to relaunch Alpha Flight.

[AcesX1X]

Unfortunatly both he and Aurora were under embargo due to a plan to relaunch Alpha Flight.

WHAT? ugh. I'm so sick of Alpha Flight! Can't they find someone else to join their team?

Northstar likes being with the X-Men. Let him come play.

[MartinRedmond]

It's comic books. People get beaten up all the time.

And Northstar was supposed to be a full member of Carey's X-Men.

Unfortunatly both he and Aurora were under embargo due to a plan to relaunch Alpha Flight.

Well a few decades ago, it was generally okay to have women in action / adventure entertainment as long as they were inneficient, took a beating and never upstaged any of the boys. Just a thought.

[darknessatnoon]

It's comic books. People get beaten up all the time.

And Northstar was supposed to be a full member of Carey's X-Men.

Unfortunatly both he and Aurora were under embargo due to a plan to relaunch Alpha Flight.

Nah, in superhero comics people usually tend to be able to fight back. That's the fantasy element of them. That kid didn't stand a chance at all. It's a hateful scene and a total mistake by the creators. Stop reflexively defending it.

[Beast]

WHAT? ugh. I'm so sick of Alpha Flight! Can't they find someone else to join their team?

Northstar likes being with the X-Men. Let him come play.
Yeah. That's supposedly the reason why Northstar and Aurora were 'fixed' in the annual.

And then sales of Omega Flight were horrd and the plans got scuttled.

[DeniseXfrost]

It's not a competition. It's about making summaries people can actually garner accurate information from. In all reality, I might develop a man-crush.

As if i meant it seriously. It's not a competition, it's contribution :smile:

[Beast]

Nah, in superhero comics people usually tend to be able to fight back. That's the fantasy element of them. That kid didn't stand a chance at all. It's a hateful scene and a total mistake by the creators. Stop reflexively defending it.
Really? The villains beating the heroes is a pretty common storytelling device.

And it's meant to be a horrifc scene. So when the X-Men kick their asses it's a cheer worthy moment.

It's a simple storytelling device. One that's been used since telling stories started.

[tetragene]

as I've said before I have no problem with the actual scene and the intent of it. My problem is with how it was watered down (apparently by editorial). That's my only qualm. What was the point of removing the slur? Bashings are horrible, hateful & brutal--and if it's going to act as a parallel for the "real world" example...then leave the slur in. Allusions here, allusions there--if we're going to be going for gritty and relistic approaches then sometimes the "allusion" isn't enough. This is further exemplified by how you have posters on here, who have read it...and still refuse to see the connection. So the bashing still holds it's "horrible, racist" angle, but loses the "real world" angle. The bashers aren't just racist, they are just all around bigots full of hate for any & everyting outside their "norm." THAT is my one and only problem with the scene.

I could care less its a gay guy getting attacked...but if that's the intent of it then don't water it down. That;s just lame.

[MartinRedmond]

It probably wasn't done out of malicious intent, but I wished writers stopped massacring unique characters and minorities.

[darknessatnoon]

Really? The villains beating the heroes is a pretty common storytelling device.

And it's meant to be a horrifc scene. So when the X-Men kick their asses it's a cheer worthy moment.

It's a simple storytelling device. One that's been used since telling stories started.

O'Rly?

If the kid somehow fights back and redeems himself, then the development might be organic. If Cyclops comes and and POWUURRRR BLASTS the cultists down, then the imminent threat of serious violence in the first place will have just been laughable. I'm sure some readers are already climaxing with Pixie in that scene. They won't have enough juice left to be excited when the X-Men pony up and save the day for gays in San Francisco.

[Pach!]

lol. It's ridiculous trying to argue that the bashing at the beginning isn't gay bashing, when it's a gay person being bashed. Anyone trying to argue Pixie's friend is straight is being ridiculous. I disagree completely with Karma being gay bashed or being "rescued" by the "straight" Wolverine tho. I dont think it applies there at all.

Anyway I enjoyed the issue. Can't wait for the next one.

[frog]

The discussion of Beast's manual dexterity perplexed me, because this is the first time he even really was having problems with his paws in some time. But yet, he says now it's better... are they hinting at the return of "Ape Beast"?




Well... Agent Brand has been 'Tinkering Extensively With Him'. :wink:

Horrors. That had better not be what that nonsense was about!

[Beast]

lol. It's ridiculous trying to argue that the bashing at the beginning isn't gay bashing, when it's a gay person being bashed. Anyone trying to argue Pixie's friend is straight is being ridiculous. I disagree completely with Karma being gay bashed or being "rescued" by the "straight" Wolverine tho. I dont think it applies there at all.

Anyway I enjoyed the issue. Can't wait for the next one.
I don't recall anyone arguing that Pixie's friend was straight. The argument is that he wasn't being beaten because he was gay. He was being beaten because he was friends with a "Dirty Mutie". Yes, the beating was evocative of a hate crime.... because that's what it was. A horrible and disgusting hate crime against Mutants, who are analogies for a number of often persecuted minorities like.... Gays.

But well said about the whole Karma/Wolverine thing. For all we know she volunteered when she heard what happened. Besides, the X-Men were trying to draw out the Hellfire Cult. Putting one of the well-known X-Men out there as bait would be too obvious. They're not gonna be stupid and go right after the Big Boys. So Karma works perfectly. And hopefully when #502 comes out she kicks some ass.

[Timeslip]

Personally, I am more offended (being gay) that Karma was described in her little editorial box description as "Likes girls", lol

Not really offended at that either, but it is kinda...odd to me.

[Agent_Torpor]

Personally, I am more offended (being gay) that Karma was described in her little editorial box description as "Likes girls", lol

Not really offended at that either, but it is kinda...odd to me.

Written to titillate the 13 year old boys, no doubt. "Likes girls"??? Stupid.

If you're going to make a character LGBT, do your homework. Don't do some flippant "likes girls, ooooooh!" description for the character.

[Beast]

Personally, I am more offended (being gay) that Karma was described in her little editorial box description as "Likes girls", lol

Not really offended at that either, but it is kinda...odd to me.
Yeah, now that was tacky and something I could see taking some offense over.

As if that's one of the only aspects of her character that's important.

But they also had the tacky 'Psychic Supervixen' thing for Emma earlier in the issue.

[Pach!]

Written to titillate the 13 year old boys, no doubt. "Likes girls"??? Stupid.

If you're going to make a character LGBT, do your homework. Don't do some flippant "likes girls, ooooooh!" description for the character.

Where did their homework fail? Does a lesbian not like girls?

[$5 Milkshake]

Where did there homework fail? Does a lesbian not like girls?

They like women.

[Novaya Havoc]

They like women.

Observant! :D

[Bishop_Proudstar]

Absolutely, 100% horrid issue.

I defended 500; I will NOT defend 501.

For one, gay bashing rubbed me the wrong way.
For second, attempting the gay bash on Karma DOUBLY-rubbed me the wrong way.

Land's art grated. Pornface Pixie got ENOUGH flak on the 500 cover -- did we need it when she was getting, well, mutie-bashed along with her gay friend?

NO Dazzler as promised.

And the RED QUEEN is as ridiculous now as it was when CC did it with DARK JEAN GREY in New Excalibur.

And Empath being a wimpy S&M bottom only adds fuel to the fire.

Sorry, but I hate to admit that the Magnemites were right about 500 and the "new direction." This was absolutely god-awful and doesn't pick up at ALL from 500.

It sounds like they were actually showing sympathy for the gay-cause, and its back-fired a bit for being too strong a depiction.


Great depiction of Oakland as well... I guess it is a DC town..lol.



They are actually equating The X-men/Mutants with the gay movement... (Thus, the silly move to San Francisco---that will be un-done in about 3-4 years).

The reason that they have a school is that the mutants won't encounter human gangs and anti-mutant factions in the cities..

The X-Men aren't The Champions/Defenders/etc.. in which they need to be Avengers-lite, and become the champion of any city.

I just don't get the closet-comparison.

Gays choose to be gay... It's a decision that they make in their youth, not a genetic quirk or defect.. Mutants don't choose to be anything. They don't have a choice in being a mutant. Most of them cannot hide. The X-men can be equated more with children with birth defects than gays.

Gays can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless their actions and words "out them".



Get back to Xavier's, and focus on mutants, mutants, mutants..

[worstblogever]

Written to titillate the 13 year old boys, no doubt. "Likes girls"??? Stupid.

If you're going to make a character LGBT, do your homework. Don't do some flippant "likes girls, ooooooh!" description for the character.

I thought they had Greg Land around to tittilate the adolescent boys. I guess the writing is being made to reflect it too.

[Pach!]

They like women.

Which is what they meant by girls obviously. Unless Katy Perry sings about kissing a 6 year old, or Estelle wants an 8 year old from USA in her song American Boy..and so on.

[Novaya Havoc]

Which is what they meant by girls obviously. Unless Katy Perry sings about kissing a 6 year old, or Estelle wants an 8 year old from USA in her song American Boy..and so on.

!

I think you have uncovered the pedophilia undercurrent in American music. :(

[$5 Milkshake]

Which is what they meant by girls obviously. Unless Katy Perry sings about kissing a 6 year old, or Estelle wants an 8 year old from USA in her song American Boy..and so on.

Katy Perry is obviously a deviant.

It was a joke Pach!

[Beast]

I thought they had Greg Land around to tittilate the adolescent boys. I guess the writing is being made to reflect it too.
When all the art comes back with porn faces, it probably influences the writer.

Brubaker: "Porn face, porn face, porn face. Arrrrrrgh. Ok, gotta write something that matches this."

[samil87]

General all purpose bigoted bad guys beat up a mutant and gay guy, the X-men don't like it so they do something about it. Have I got that right?
I think I've missed something, what is the problem with it? I have read what's been posted and I just don't get it.

Thanks for the review/ spoilers, sounds like an interesting issue.
I'm going to have to ask though, what is a hot pocket and what's so horrifying about them? :smile:

[worstblogever]

When all the art comes back with porn faces, it probably influences the writer.

Brubaker: "Porn face, porn face, porn face. Arrrrrrgh. Ok, gotta write something that matches this."

This reminds me... has www.mightygodking.com done any mockups of Uncanny X-Men #500, like he did other Land work?

[Beast]

This reminds me... has www.mightygodking.com done any mockups of Uncanny X-Men #500, like he did other Land work?
I dunno. I tend to try to avoid looking at Greg Land stuff as much as possible.

[Dazzler]

They are actually equating The X-men/Mutants with the gay movement... (Thus, the silly move to San Francisco---that will be un-done in about 3-4 years).


Silly? Hmmm. It's not all that silly considering the amount of social change that originates right here in this city. It's the first time a move in the comic book has had any kind of purposeful thought behind it in my opinion.

A book about social change being set in a place that breathes it as opposed to perpetually buttoned up Upstate New York?


Although I agree that it'll probably be undone in a couple of years. All the good ideas are.

--Dazz

[LawGiver]

Upon a second reading I found something interesting; Cyclops on his ride into the Greymalkin Industries talks about how they will use these Marin Hills headquarters to provide, almost a college like campus, to the powered and DEPOWERED mutants. A place to learn, sleep, live, work, general community atmosphere.

He's reached out to Depowered mutants as well, I found that awesome.

[worstblogever]

I dunno. I tend to try to avoid looking at Greg Land stuff as much as possible.

This is the only time I've enjoyed it recently. And it's because it was mocking it.

http://mightygodking.com/index.php/ultimate-power-2-very-naughty-edition/

[jarrod]

Brubaker: "Porn face, porn face, porn face. Arrrrrrgh. Ok, gotta write something that matches this."
When all the art comes back with porn faces, it probably influences the writer?

Well, I guess that explains Rise being stilted, derivative, untimely trash and Supernovas being ZOMGSOME! :biggrin:

[Beast]

Silly? Hmmm. It's not all that silly considering the amount of social change that originates right here in this city. It's the first time a move in the comic book has had any kind of purposeful thought behind it in my opinion.

A book about social change being set in a place that breathes it as opposed to perpetually buttoned up Upstate New York?


Although I agree that it'll probably be undone in a couple of years. All the good ideas are.

--Dazz
Plus the chief reason it was done...

Quesada doesn't like the X-Books. So this gets them even further detached from the Marvel Universe.

You can't be a huge part of the 'Shared Universe' if your shoved off in your own little sandbox.

[Dazzler]

Plus the chief reason it was done...

Quesada doesn't like the X-Books. So this gets them even further detached from the Marvel Universe.

You can't be a huge part of the 'Shared Universe' if your shoved off in your own little sandbox.

So? I don't care why it was done. To me, it's just a nice and interesting change for once that has a lot of potential.

That may be a reason it was done, and it may come to pass that it plays out somewhat that way...but it's not as if San Francisco is the moon or anything. If Black Panther and Storm can jetset from AFRICA, and Spider-Man can zoop here and there to be in any number of crossovers...

the X-men can sure as shit make the supersonic jet ride to where ever they're needed in no time flat.

Besides. New York is overdone.

--Dazz

[Novaya Havoc]

Gays choose to be gay... It's a decision that they make in their youth, not a genetic quirk or defect.. Mutants don't choose to be anything. They don't have a choice in being a mutant. Most of them cannot hide. The X-men can be equated more with children with birth defects than gays.

Gays can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless their actions and words "out them".

And THIS post wins the thread!

[Keith_Martineau]

Uncanny X-Men 501 is not a gay bashing comic. Nothing in the comic is pro-gay bashing. Wolvie does not call someone a fag and then beat on them.

It is a comic where gay bashing takes place as part of the story.
This is done by villains who are clearly hateful, and the X-Men begin to take them on to take them down at the end of the story, because what those bashers did was wrong.

Just because it occured in the comics story, does not mean that the comic itself is saying gay bashing is okay. Quite the opposite.

[darknessatnoon]

Uncanny X-Men 501 is not a gay bashing comic. Nothing in the comic is pro-gay bashing. Wolvie does not call someone a fag and then beat on them.

It is a comic where gay bashing takes place as part of the story.
This is done by villains who are clearly hateful, and the X-Men begin to take them on to take them down at the end of the story, because what those bashers did was wrong.

Just because it occured in the comics story, does not mean that the comic itself is saying gay bashing is okay. Quite the opposite.

Right. It just contains a gay bashing scene traced by Greg Land to which people can masturbate.

[Dazzler]

And THIS post wins the thread!

You've GOT to be kidding me. That post can't be real.

That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.

--Dazz

[LawGiver]

And THIS post wins the thread!

Black men could blend into society too if they powdered up their face white, then they could fit in too.

(I hope folks realize this is sarcasm as well.)

[darknessatnoon]

Black men could blend into society too if they powdered up their face white, then they could fit in too.

(I hope folks realize this is sarcasm as well.)

Or they can post photos of white men in the Cast Me thread like you and jarrod, when we all know that you both are black.

[jarrod]

Wolvie does not call someone a fag and then beat on them.
*masturbates furiously*

[nikbackm]

It's impossible to hide that many people, agreed. Especially after they help save the city in Secret Invasion. But when they're all cruising around in sportscars Warren got them? That doesn't tell the humans, "I'm just like you." That could tell them, "We have more money and more power, therefore, we're better than you." It really sends the wrong message, IMO. Worse, it makes them an easy target to strike at. They're not just saying "We're here," now. They're practically daring people to come take a shot at them.

But at the same time, they're a "haven to preserve our race".

I think you forget that X-Men are not ordinary mutants, they are mutant super-heroes or perhaps celebrities would be a better word. See party in #500. It's kind of expected of them to behave like movie stars in public. :tongue:

If every Joe Schmoe mutant started driving around in a Ferrari you might have point, but maybe not considering there's only a few hundred of them left. They might all be seen as being special at this point.


And at the same time, Cyclops is ordering those he deems irredeemable to be killed outright.

That's what I mean. It's just all so contradictory, and I'm trying to connect the dots. It isn't washing as a tentpole mission statement. It almost seems like the 3 X-books (4 if I count S.I.) are taking place in different Marvel Earths almost. Only the casts are the same, but not their motives.

Marvel hardly expects every fan to get every book and compare them (see recent sales numbers), it makes sense to try to target different groups with different books. And of course books by different writers and artists are going to have different tones.

I don't think it's so contradictory if you look at it strictly from an in-universe viewpoint either.

It's not like Cyclops orders every "bad" mutant (or other villain) to be killed at first sight. The hits so far -- the Purifiers, Mystique and Bishop -- are quite understandable considering the circumstances. Let's wait a bit to see how fast the hitlist grows.

[Keith_Martineau]

Right. It just contains a gay bashing scene traced by Greg Land to which people can masturbate.

There have been scenes in comics over the years featuring the beating of all kinds of people. Black, mexican, jewish, women, gay people.

If you want to have someone represented in a comic book, then you have to accept that there will be times when bad things happen to those people, and it is depicted visually.
Period.

You don't get to have all cultures and races in a comic---and then only have the white males be the victims of violence.

[LawGiver]

Or they can post photos of white men in XCress, when we all know that you and jarrod are both black.

I do not believe I have ever indicated, in a non-jovial fashion, what my race, gender or sexual orientation was.

The picture I posted is, in fact, me. That should help clarify two of the three questions. Also please do not lump me in with the poster jarrod.

[jarrod]

Or they can post photos of white men in the Cast Me thread like you and jarrod, when we all know that you both are black.
My messiah is Rachel Summers, not Backtrack Obama.

Wait, am I racist now?

[$5 Milkshake]

Right. It just contains a gay bashing scene traced by Greg Land to which people can masturbate.

People masturbate to ugly artwork?

I use internet porn.

[darknessatnoon]

There have been scenes in comics over the years featuring the beating of all kinds of people. Black, mexican, jewish, women, gay people.

If you want to have someone represented in a comic book, then you have to accept that there will be times when bad things happen to those people, and it is depicted visually.
Period.

You don't get to have all cultures and races in a comic---and then only have the white males be the victims of violence.

That was never my point, but since you don't feel like actually reading the whole conversation I defer to your superior intuition.

[pryde15]

Gays choose to be gay... It's a decision that they make in their youth, not a genetic quirk or defect.. Mutants don't choose to be anything. They don't have a choice in being a mutant. Most of them cannot hide. The X-men can be equated more with children with birth defects than gays.

Gays can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless their actions and words "out them".



Get back to Xavier's, and focus on mutants, mutants, mutants..

ZOMG. Christos? ChristosSoter? When did you get back?!?!?!?!

[jarrod]

People masturbate to ugly artwork?

I use internet porn.
I use my husband's chest or gaping mouth. Well, that's usually what I aim for.

[Novaya Havoc]

Fine. I shall sit down and PONTIFICATE on this scene further, with some constructive critique:

For one, the scene was clearly a gay bashing. It was a visceral scene of a gay guy and his literal-fairy friend getting beat down by guys in masks after attending a concert featuring a disco queen.

You can twist and pull and hide behind the "It's because PIXIE is a MUTANT not because her FRIEND is GAY!" argument all you want, but the connotation is clear as a bell, right on that page.

You can't on the one hand say that the X-Men are an allegory for minority groups and then say that this isn't clearly a hate-crime -- on gays -- thinly veiled with "mutie" instead of "faggot." Any twisting of this is missing the point entirely.

HOWEVER.

I do not disagree with the overall direction Brubaker and Fraction are going with, if -- and only if -- they continue to explore this angle rather than just drop it entirely. To wit: you cannot just showcase this type of act, and then leave it dangling. As an isolated event, this reads just as a gay bashing for the sake of puffing up the Hellfire Cult.

In the larger framework, yes, it can mean that the X-Men are fighting for survival and tolerance. But Pixie will need to get some serious character work out of this, rather than just a shallow plot device to bring her into the X. (Such as, NOT: "Hey guys. I was beat up with my gay friend. Can I stay with you, plz? YAY! Now I am an X-Man!")

It's a solid angle to explore, but it needs to be explored. This wasn't something that should have been left as 1/5 of the entire story. It needs to move QUICKER and hit the point home -- especially in a serial -- and deal with the serious nature of it, its fallout, and the characters' growth. I don't want to read this 10 issues down the line (heck, not even TWO issues down the line), while I'm interspliced with BDSM Jean Grey and Emma/Cyclops getting their freak on.

So, fair enough. This scene could lead to a great angle on the X-Men, and yes -- parallels to real-world violence can heighten that emotion, perception, and reader familiarity.

As a stand-alone event in this issue? It was utter fail. You either address the issue full-bore, or you result in something like this which has no positive emotional connotation. None.

That's my added comment.

[LawGiver]

It was very interesting to see that the rumors of Cyclops uncaring towards the depowered mutants is actually not true, he did invite them to San Fran.

[darknessatnoon]

Fine. I shall sit down and PONTIFICATE on this scene further, with some constructive critique:

For one, the scene was clearly a gay bashing. It was a visceral scene of a gay guy and his literal-fairy friend getting beat down by guys in masks after attending a concert featuring a disco queen.

You can twist and pull and hide behind the "It's because PIXIE is a MUTANT not because her FRIEND is GAY!" argument all you want, but the connotation is clear as a bell, right on that page.

You can't on the one hand say that the X-Men are an allegory for minority groups and then say that this isn't clearly a hate-crime -- on gays -- thinly veiled with "mutie" instead of "faggot." Any twisting of this is missing the point entirely.

HOWEVER.

I do not disagree with the overall direction Brubaker and Fraction are going with, if -- and only if -- they continue to explore this angle rather than just drop it entirely. To wit: you cannot just showcase this type of act, and then leave it dangling. As an isolated event, this reads just as a gay bashing for the sake of puffing up the Hellfire Cult.

In the larger framework, yes, it can mean that the X-Men are fighting for survival and tolerance. But Pixie will need to get some serious character work out of this, rather than just a shallow plot device to bring her into the X. (Such as, NOT: "Hey guys. I was beat up with my gay friend. Can I stay with you, plz? YAY! Now I am an X-Man!")

It's a solid angle to explore, but it needs to be explored. This wasn't something that should have been left as 1/5 of the entire story. It needs to move QUICKER and hit the point home -- especially in a serial -- and deal with the serious nature of it, its fallout, and the characters' growth. I don't want to read this 10 issues down the line (heck, not even TWO issues down the line), while I'm interspliced with BDSM Jean Grey and Emma/Cyclops getting their freak on.

So, fair enough. This scene could lead to a great angle on the X-Men, and yes -- parallels to real-world violence can heighten that emotion, perception, and reader familiarity.

As a stand-alone event in this issue? It was utter fail. You either address the issue full-bore, or you result in something like this which has no positive emotional connotation. None.

That's my added comment.

I actually disagree. I think the general direction is b.s.

Let's have an internet fight. You start, bitch.

[Gene M.]

People masturbate to ugly artwork?

I use internet porn.
So does Greg Land.

Okay, okay. I'll stop.

Greg Land sucks!

[tetragene]

The X-men can be equated more with children with birth defects than gays.

correction--"Morlocks" and mutants like Nightcrawler with an obvious physical mutation that can't be easily hidden can be equated more with children that have birth defects. Characters like Emma, Colossus, etc who have (for all intents & purposes) "normal" physical appearances can be likened more to being in the closet--not to birth defected children or racial minorites. If you have characters running around pretending to be "normal humans" in their working/personal lives but have the "secret" of mutant powers they keep to themselves and select others--than that's obviously a "gay in the closet" parallel. Quite obviously.

Gays can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless their actions and words "out them".

[mutants with non-physical mutations] can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless [the display their powers in public] "out them."

[Novaya Havoc]

I actually disagree. I think the general direction is b.s.


Explain this, and then we can fight!

[Beast]

Upon a second reading I found something interesting; Cyclops on his ride into the Greymalkin Industries talks about how they will use these Marin Hills headquarters to provide, almost a college like campus, to the powered and DEPOWERED mutants. A place to learn, sleep, live, work, general community atmosphere.

He's reached out to Depowered mutants as well, I found that awesome.
You know.... that is interesting.

Especially when Decimation happened we saw how Emma throwing out all the depowered students led to their deaths. And how kicking out Dani Moonstar and such wasn't taken very well by the fanbase. So it's nice to see that maybe Marvel's rectifing it a bit with having the invite going out to both current and former mutants. Good catch. Hopefully it means we might see some of the depowered fan favorites show up.

[darknessatnoon]

Explain this, and then we can fight!

I did it explain it! Read the thread! I am going to have lunch and then afterwards bitch you out for contradicting me.

[Pach!]

You know.... that is interesting.

Especially when Decimation happened we saw how Emma throwing out all the depowered students led to their deaths. And how kicking out Dani Moonstar and such wasn't taken very well by the fanbase. So it's nice to see that maybe Marvel's rectifing it a bit with having the invite going out to both current and former mutants. Good catch.
It was always about doing what they thought was best for depowered mutants. This must be what they think is best now.

[jarrod]

First playing detective, then defending the decimated... I had no idea Jamie made Scott so insecure!?

[Hi-Fi]

It was always about doing what they thought was best for depowered mutants. This must be what they think is best now.
I thought throwing Dani out like that was completely bullshit.

[Keith_Martineau]

That was never my point, but since you don't feel like actually reading the whole conversation I defer to your superior intuition.

I've read the conversation.
Yer point isn't clear at all.

Do you:
A: Have a problem with the scene being drawn by a guy who traces photographs that are sometimes from porn.
B: Have a problem with a gay civilian being beaten.
C: Have a problem with the scene period.

Cause yer constant references to masturbation suggest some sort of notion on your part that the average hetero comics reader is gonna wack off to Pixie being beaten, and ignore the fact that her gay friend was also beaten, or worse yet also wack off to the gay guy being beaten also. And that somehow, because Land is a known tracer, known to trace porn, that this is what is going to cause it.

So what point exactly are you trying to make? Am I incorrect?

[jarrod]

I thought throwing Dani out like that was completely bullshit.
Well, it was pretty blatant considering Bobby was also considered decimated at the time. Benefits of the boys club I guess?

[LawGiver]

It was always about doing what they thought was best for depowered mutants. This must be what they think is best now.

It's good to see them reaching out and not just throwing them to the wilds anymore. I think that could prove a potentially interesting story down the line.

[Beast]

I thought throwing Dani out like that was completely bullshit.
*Claps*

Exactly. Emma was just using the oppertunaty to be a petty petty biotch.

[Beast]

Well, it was pretty blatant considering Bobby was also considered decimated at the time. Benefits of the boys club I guess?
Nah, it's Emma. She's always had a grudge against the New Mutants.

[Daithi]

It was always about doing what they thought was best for depowered mutants. This must be what they think is best now.

Bitch Emma kicks Dani (and other depowered mutants out) but not Prodigy. :frown:

[Beast]

It's good to see them reaching out and not just throwing them to the wilds anymore. I think that could prove a potentially interesting story down the line.
As long as it's not so that someone can shoot a rocket at the place and kill more depowered folks.

[DeniseXfrost]

Oh my god the bitch Dani and Rahni totally had it coming.

[LawGiver]

As long as it's not so that someone can shoot a rocket at the place and kill more depowered folks.

San Fran does have a lot of trolley's rolling around, you never know.

[jarrod]

Nah, it's Emma. She's always had a grudge against the New Mutants.
Scott didn't seem to mind though... he's just as bad for not standing up to it imo.

If only Storm had been there. The real Storm, not this Wakandan robot they FedExed to San Fran...

[Beast]

San Fran does have a lot of trolley's rolling around, you never know.
I so mis-read that as "Tranny's Rolling Around" at first.

[Steven F.]

But Pixie will need to get some serious character work out of this


I was given the ok to say this.

This right here is exactly why the friend was beaten. They are using this as the catalyst to develop Pixie, give her purpose. Make her a true, real hero. It is a horrible scene, I agree on that. But this is the reason, from Marvel themselves, as to why it happened.

Will it be handled well? I can't answer that. But this is why it happened.

Steven

[Beast]

Scott didn't seem to mind though... he's just as bad for not standing up to it imo.

If only Storm had been there. The real Storm, not this Wakandan robot they FedExed to San Fran...
That's when Scott was still acting pussy-whipped by Emma.

He seems to have reclaimed his balls from Emma's handbag as of late.

[tetragene]

It's good to see them reaching out and not just throwing them to the wilds anymore. I think that could prove a potentially interesting story down the line.

that was the impression I got from #500 though when everyone was like "omg! Scott is just giving the enemies their location to make them HUGE TARGETS!"

I thought, if anything, seeing as the mutant population is pitifully low--Cyke wanted to make all mutants--current, former & their families--feel like an actual community. All forgiven and forgotten, for the sake of being a "community" now that mutants are at an all time low. And than San Fran will be a place more accepting of people like them--whereas NYC never was--and likely little to no other cities were. It could backfire, but I think it would serve two purposes: get everyone "good" and that wants to help foster mutant growth in the same place. They can be more easily protected that was too and would know what its like to live outside of fear. Secondly--IF there are mutants/former mutants who are "bad" and just want to cause trouble--they are right there where teh X-men are to handle them. They aren't necessarily scattered around--if they come looking for the X-men/mutants then they'll find an ass of 'em in San Fran...who as a community would be able to take them down more easily than they would be scattered and separated and targeted one by one.

[Novaya Havoc]

I was given the ok to say this.

This right here is exactly why the friend was beaten. They are using this as the catalyst to develop Pixie, give her purpose. Make her a true, real hero. It is a horrible scene, I agree on that. But this is the reason, from Marvel themselves, as to why it happened.

Will it be handled well? I can't answer that. But this is why it happened.

Steven

Good. I hope that comes to the fore sooner than later.

[Henry T.]

Gays choose to be gay... It's a decision that they make in their youth, not a genetic quirk or defect.. Mutants don't choose to be anything. They don't have a choice in being a mutant. Most of them cannot hide. The X-men can be equated more with children with birth defects than gays.

Gays can blend in society, and not be called-out on site unless their actions and words "out them".



Get back to Xavier's, and focus on mutants, mutants, mutants..

No, gays do not chose to be gay. And not all gays can blend in as some gay men are extremely effeminate and some lesbians are extremely masculine and some people are transexual or intersexual.

While there is no single gay gene, a polygenic set of genes most likely are involved. Afterall genes affect the release and regulation of hormones and other aspects of brain development in interaction with environmental factors.

Most likely the biological basis of homosexuality has to do with the way the brain develops in the womb. For example we all begin life as a fetus in a proto-female state. If we are male the Y chromosome activates the release of androgens like testosterone to masculinize the fetus. These chemicals will masculinize the brain and the genitals to make the fetus a male. However, brain tissue naturally resists this process and therefore creates a continuum of low masculinized brained males to high masculinized brained males.

Studies have shown differences in respsect to size and dendritic connections of the anterior hypothalamus, anterior commissure, and amygdala in heterosexuals and homosexuals.

These areas of the brain are similar in heterosexual females and homosexual males and in heterosexual males and homosexual females.

Similar studies (although with a relatively small sample) have been conducted on rams as well.

Homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom just as it does in humans in respect to clandestine behavior, situational homosexuality (such as in prisons when one sex is isolated from the other) and in lifelong orientations.

In Iran gay teens can be executed just for being gay. You can google it and see pictures of teen boys hanging dead from a noose. Would teenage boys chose to be gay in a country where they could get the death penalty?

Sexuality develops from a complex interaction of biological, environmental, social, and psychological factors. Its definitely not a choice.

[jarrod]

That's when Scott was still acting pussy-whipped by Emma.

He seems to have reclaimed his balls from Emma's handbag as of late.
Acting?

Agreed on the latter, but when will Storm reclaim her balls? :frown:

[LawGiver]

that was the impression I got from #500 though when everyone was like "omg! Scott is just giving the enemies their location to make them HUGE TARGETS!"

I thought, if anything, seeing as the mutant population is pitifully low--Cyke wanted to make all mutants--current, former & their families--feel like an actual community. All forgiven and forgotten, for the sake of being a "community" now that mutants are at an all time low. And than San Fran will be a place more accepting of people like them--whereas NYC never was--and likely little to no other cities were. It could backfire, but I think it would serve two purposes: get everyone "good" and that wants to help foster mutant growth in the same place. They can be more easily protected that was too and would know what its like to live outside of fear. Secondly--IF there are mutants/former mutants who are "bad" and just want to cause trouble--they are right there where teh X-men are to handle them. They aren't necessarily scattered around--if they come looking for the X-men/mutants then they'll find an ass of 'em in San Fran...who as a community would be able to take them down more easily than they would be scattered and separated and targeted one by one.

I agree with this. If the villain is stupid enough to do something in SF they know in advance that this is where the X-Men are and it's at your own risk.

[Pach!]

I thought throwing Dani out like that was completely bullshit.
Fair enough, I disagree though. However rude Emma was, she had a point. In the days following to the decimation they were attacked by both the purifiers AND the human league (sapien league? w/e). Having mutants there makes it enough of a target, so I don't think it was bullshit at all.
Bitch Emma kicks Dani (and other depowered mutants out) but not Prodigy. :frown:
He was going to leave too! They only let him stay when they found out that the Purifiers were targeting depowered mutants as well.

[Beast]

Acting?

Agreed on the latter, but when will Storm reclaim her balls? :frown:
My guess... X-Men: World's Apart. Seems to be setting Ororo up for something big.

[jarrod]

My guess... X-Men: World's Apart. Seems to be setting Ororo up for something big.
I've got my fingers crossed.

[MartinRedmond]

In the days following to the decimation they were attacked by both the purifiers AND the human league

http://www.leaguefans.com/images/human3.jpg:confused:

[DeniseXfrost]

Acting?

Agreed on the latter, but when will Storm reclaim her balls? :frown:
She just tucked them safely in her cock ring.

[Beast]

She just tucked them safely in her cock ring.
Given her new costume... that's not even a joke. Yikes.

At least even Greg Land couldn't draw her in that monstrosity on the Uncanny 500 cover.

[Trississ]

Normally I wouldn't contribute to these types of conversations, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents.
Arguing that the opening scene of the book is "gay bashing" is absurd. Most of the reasons why it's an absurd assumption have already been pointed out by other people in this forum and most of them come down to the same things. First, reader's assume, that Pixie's friend was gay. It never says he's gay. Not every man in SF is gay, not even every man who goes to the concert of a Diva is gay. Maybe he was trying to get in Pixies' pants and suffered through the show to get in her good graces... Apparently she is a porn star now.
Secondly, people assume that mutants are some kind of metaphor for gays. Seriously now? Mutants have been a metaphor for minorities in general for as long as the book has been running. Yes, homosexuals fit in that category, but it's not an exclusive club folks.
It's art people. Good artists (including storytellers) leave some room for personal interpretation in their work. Interpretation is one thing, assuming the artist or publisher is a bigot is quite another. I'm sure people that have made up their minds that Pixie's anonymous friend is gay will continue to hold to their opinions despite my arguments. It's a plausible interpretation. But it's not like BruFrac is glorifying the act, the bashers are the bad guys here.

Overall...
The scenes with Scott and Emma and Scott and Warren were a little over the top for me. They felt a little campy tbh. Overall though I'm with holding my opinions of the "new" direction until I have a better of idea of what it is. Scott building a baby crib? Anyone else think he's losing his marbles???

[Nyssane]

Can someone please post a scan of Empath? :biggrin:

fapfapfap

[Dazzler]

Normally I wouldn't contribute to these types of conversations, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents.
Arguing that the opening scene of the book is "gay bashing" is absurd. Most of the reasons why it's an absurd assumption have already been pointed out by other people in this forum and most of them come down to the same things. First, reader's assume, that Pixie's friend was gay. It never says he's gay. Not every man in SF is gay, not even every man who goes to the concert of a Diva is gay. Maybe he was trying to get in Pixies' pants and suffered through the show to get in her good graces... Apparently she is a porn star now.
Secondly, people assume that mutants are some kind of metaphor for gays. Seriously now? Mutants have been a metaphor for minorities in general for as long as the book has been running. Yes, homosexuals fit in that category, but it's not an exclusive club folks.
It's art people. Good artists (including storytellers) leave some room for personal interpretation in their work. Interpretation is one thing, assuming the artist or publisher is a bigot is quite another. I'm sure people that have made up their minds that Pixie's anonymous friend is gay will continue to hold to their opinions despite my arguments. It's a plausible interpretation. But it's not like BruFrac is glorifying the act, the bashers are the bad guys here.



Ludicrous.

We've had scenes where mutants were lynched and dragged behind trucks...and I never once saw people arguing that it was open to interpretation whether or not it was referring to anti-black racist events.

People who fight to ignore the subtext irritate the shit out of me. It's willful ignorance.

--Dazz

[LawGiver]

Normally I wouldn't contribute to these types of conversations, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents.
Arguing that the opening scene of the book is "gay bashing" is absurd. Most of the reasons why it's an absurd assumption have already been pointed out by other people in this forum and most of them come down to the same things. First, reader's assume, that Pixie's friend was gay. It never says he's gay. Not every man in SF is gay, not even every man who goes to the concert of a Diva is gay. Maybe he was trying to get in Pixies' pants and suffered through the show to get in her good graces... Apparently she is a porn star now.
Secondly, people assume that mutants are some kind of metaphor for gays. Seriously now? Mutants have been a metaphor for minorities in general for as long as the book has been running. Yes, homosexuals fit in that category, but it's not an exclusive club folks.
It's art people. Good artists (including storytellers) leave some room for personal interpretation in their work. Interpretation is one thing, assuming the artist or publisher is a bigot is quite another. I'm sure people that have made up their minds that Pixie's anonymous friend is gay will continue to hold to their opinions despite my arguments. It's a plausible interpretation. But it's not like BruFrac is glorifying the act, the bashers are the bad guys here.

Overall...
The scenes with Scott and Emma and Scott and Warren were a little over the top for me. They felt a little campy tbh. Overall though I'm with holding my opinions of the "new" direction until I have a better of idea of what it is. Scott building a baby crib? Anyone else think he's losing his marbles???

How would you interrupt the Red Queen?

[frog]

According to the last issue of Cable, Scott is building the crib in hopes that Cable will return to the present with the Messiah Complex baby.

[darknessatnoon]

Good. I hope that comes to the fore sooner than later.

I've been given the "OK" to tell you that it's not going to end up being a good story. Being part of a gay-bashing will not make pixie any more cool than her little extra-dimensional dildo did.

[Nyssane]

I got into an argument the other day with my friends about whether straight men listen to Miley Cyrus or not. Thus, I'm sure straight men listen to Dazzler, as well.

[DeniseXfrost]

Listening to Miley Cyrus should be illegal.

[AcesX1X]

OMG I would totes heart someone forever if they could get me a scan of Empath all chained up and taking it!

That said, I read the issue. Um, it was okay.....not really anything special. But, my life-long crush on Manny de la Rocha has just jumped about 50 points after this ish.

What an @$$hole.

[$5 Milkshake]

I got into an argument the other day with my friends about whether straight men listen to Miley Cyrus or not. Thus, I'm sure straight men listen to Dazzler, as well.

Dazzler is hot. There would definitely be straight guys there. You ever see the crowd at a Britney Spears concert? Straight guys everywhere, and it aint for the incredible music.

[Novaya Havoc]

I've been given the "OK" to tell you that it's not going to end up being a good story. Being part of a gay-bashing will not make pixie any more cool than her little extra-dimensional dildo did.

LOL!

I am up for the possibility of turning this honey-don't into a honeydo!

Sage is all about possibilities, yes? ANALYZE. But 501 was, and is, a terrible comic. So I am very, very tepid.

However, all this crackrock posturing from others on "you're ASSSUUUUUUUUUMIIINGGGG! that guy was gaaaay!!!" still bugs.

[Novaya Havoc]

Listening to Miley Cyrus should be illegal.

This is utter, raw, unmolested truth.

[Dazzler]

I got into an argument the other day with my friends about whether straight men listen to Miley Cyrus or not. Thus, I'm sure straight men listen to Dazzler, as well.

i agree, but unfortunately, Pixie's little friend is clearly not one of them.
:wink:

--Dazz

[Kid Icarus]

I think the references to gay bashing were very obvious, but understand how some do not see or do not want to see that in the scene. Like I already said, people see things differently everywhere. As for being hateful, The attackers were hateful, making readers sympathetic to those attacked and seeing characters wanting to fight back is positive. I think the potential for good exceeds the bad in the scene. It was ment to be a shocking sequence, guess what it worked.

I'ts so weird to me that people can read things and never actually read things
Like when Buffy "came out" and when Iceman did the same thing in x2
People weren't getting the parallels and I just sat there
mouth agape at the blatant attempt at comparing being a mutant and a slayer to homosexuality
but then again
I guess none of the people who were there were gay
so maybe they are less susceptible?

anyways
Im really proud of myself
I got to page 5 of this thread
without reading any spoilers
hah

[$5 Milkshake]

I am up for the possibility of turning this honey-don't into a honeydo!


LMAO

Dont ever use that expression again.

[LawGiver]

According to the last issue of Cable, Scott is building the crib in hopes that Cable will return to the present with the Messiah Complex baby.

That is also mentioned in this issue.

Scott mentions how when Nathan came back him and Jean were on the run and never had time, he wants to prepared. It's actually a pretty interesting scene. Emma doesn't even make a sarcastic remark to him, she seems oddly supportive.

[Beast]

According to the last issue of Cable, Scott is building the crib in hopes that Cable will return to the present with the Messiah Complex baby.
I don't buy it. I still say Emma's got a little Summers spawn in her.

[pryde15]

Someone please post Empath & Karma scans! I don't think I will make it to the comic book shop today, and I must see!

[Nyssane]

OMG I would totes heart someone forever if they could get me a scan of Empath all chained up and taking it!

That said, I read the issue. Um, it was okay.....not really anything special. But, my life-long crush on Manny de la Rocha has just jumped about 50 points after this ish.

What an @$$hole.

ZOMG I KNOW RIGHT? I haven't read the issue and I probably won't, but I wanna see Empath all tied up and sexy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ursula_boi/Comic%20Book%20Stuff/VS%20Card%20Artwork/Empath.jpg

[LawGiver]

I don't buy it. I still say Emma's got a little Summers spawn in her.

From her comments in this issue it seems she has had a lot of Summers's spawn in her in the last several weeks.

[Scavenger]

But what would the alternative to "coming out" be?

Not having the writers/editors/eic's/characters say they're moving because everyone knows where they are.

THAT'S the problem.

"Why would the X-Men stay at the mansion when it's always attacked and everyone knows where they are?"
A fine theory, but then to have them move into a base overlooking San Francisco Base, flying super jet cars given to them by the city, and telling every mutant in the world, good, evil, SHIELD agent, Hydra Agent, democrat, republican, where they are, pretty much says the people doing the books have no !@#$!@# clue.

[Steven F.]

Nevermind...

[Novaya Havoc]

ZOMG I KNOW RIGHT? I haven't read the issue and I probably won't, but I wanna see Empath all tied up and sexy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ursula_boi/Comic%20Book%20Stuff/VS%20Card%20Artwork/Empath.jpg

Tarot looks like a tranny there. Her lips need to calm down.

[jarrod]

Well, Scott's already stolen Jamie's business and direction... maybe he plans to steal his baby too?

[Novaya Havoc]

Well, Scott's already stolen Jamie's business and direction... maybe he plans to steal his baby too?

Maybe Siryn is the Irish-raised clone of Jean Grey?

It could totally fit.

[Dazzler]

Tarot looks like a tranny there. Her lips need to calm down.

LOL!

So wrong.

--Dazz

[Henry T.]

According to the last issue of Cable, Scott is building the crib in hopes that Cable will return to the present with the Messiah Complex baby.

Its funny that they are expecting a baby but when she returns she'll be much older. By Cable 7 the Messiah Toddler can already run around, open doors, and jump on beds.

[LawGiver]

Nevermind...

Do you know the Muffin Man?

EDIT: Down on Cherry Lane?

[Pach!]

Well, Scott's already stolen Jamie's business and direction... maybe he plans to steal his baby too?

...How so?

[Daithi]

Its funny that they are expecting a baby but when she returns she'll be much older. By Cable 7 the Messiah Toddler can already run around, open doors, and jump on beds.

Yes but Scott doesn't know that! He's expecting the baby to come back from the future as a baby. Like Nathan was? Right? :confused:

[darknessatnoon]

Nevermind...

I'm glad you edited before I could reply something uncaring and bitchful.

[Scavenger]

Wait...the argument here is that some people are just figuring out that "mutant" is being used as a metaphor for "gay"?

Seriously?

[LawGiver]

Wait...the argument here is that some people are just figuring out that "mutant" is being used as a metaphor for "gay"?

Seriously?

Then beating the holy Hell out of it, I think that's the problem folks have with it.

[jarrod]

Maybe Siryn is the Irish-raised clone of Jean Grey?

It could totally fit.
I could see it. Jean's clones always turn out cooler for some reason.


...How so?
Mutant detectives who protect ex-mutants in a self imposed mutant ghetto (with insane property values). Poor PAD. :frown:

[Novaya Havoc]

Mutant detectives who protect ex-mutants in a self imposed mutant ghetto (with insane property values). Poor PAD. :frown:

But maybe now X-Factor can gentrify Detroit! It'll be the most fabulous escapist fiction ever!

[Pach!]

I could see it. Jean's clones always turn out cooler for some reason.



Mutant detectives who protect ex-mutants in a self imposed mutant ghetto (with insane property values). Poor PAD. :frown:

That's a stretch. X-factor was a private investigation agency and AXM were helping as consultants to the police for ONE scene.

And X-factor never worked in a self imposed mutant ghetto. They started post decimation.

[nikbackm]

Not having the writers/editors/eic's/characters say they're moving because everyone knows where they are.

THAT'S the problem.

"Why would the X-Men stay at the mansion when it's always attacked and everyone knows where they are?"
A fine theory, but then to have them move into a base overlooking San Francisco Base, flying super jet cars given to them by the city, and telling every mutant in the world, good, evil, SHIELD agent, Hydra Agent, democrat, republican, where they are, pretty much says the people doing the books have no !@#$!@# clue.

Well, if some interview contradicts what's happening in the books I usually just ignore that part of the interview.

Also, the real base is still pretty well hidden and well defended. Would not surprise me if the lower parts could handle even a nuclear strike. The same cannot be said for the old mansion.

[Daithi]

That's a stretch. X-factor was a private investigation agency and AXM were helping as consultants to the police for ONE scene.

And X-factor never worked in a self imposed mutant ghetto. They started post decimation.

XXX Investigations started before Decimation though.

[Pach!]

XXX Investigations started before Decimation though.
And it took place mostly out of District X. (The Madrox mini I mean)

[jarrod]

But maybe now X-Factor can gentrify Detroit! It'll be the most fabulous escapist fiction ever!
Well, Monet's got her work cut out for her. I've been to Detroit before. Ew.

[MartinRedmond]

I could see it. Jean's clones always turn out cooler for some reason.



Mutant detectives who protect ex-mutants in a self imposed mutant ghetto (with insane property values). Poor PAD. :frown:

I remember when Chris got the boot and David's book was the only legible one to me. Scott and especially Fabian kept blatantly stealing scenes from Peter, sometimes whole from him. Poor Peter.