Uncanny X-Men #501 Discussion Thread ~ Spoilers

[frog]

My only gripe with this was Warren's money was constantly referenced throughout his appearance this issue (and #500's as well) It feels kinda like the writers are telling us, "Warren is so worthless on the battlefield but look he bought us a new base and jets and cars with tons of change to spare!" It's just kinda like we get it. He's loaded.

I don't like his dialogue either, really it just feels like they're pinning him on us to seem interesting. And he's not atleast IMO.

The last two issues were all about the over emphasis. The X-Men are all about being green, about sex, about money, etc.

[pryde15]

The last two issues were all about the over emphasis. The X-Men are all about being green, about sex, about money, etc.

So it's essentially Dirty, Sexy, Money with super powers? I do like that show... but either way. Uncanny is not looking good. :frown:

[frog]

So it's essentially Dirty, Sexy, Money with super powers? I do like that show... but either way. Uncanny is not looking good. :frown:

Yeah, when you put it that way you'd think it would be a lot more interesting!

[pryde15]

Yeah, when you put it that way you'd think it would be a lot more interesting!

I demand Karen Darling be the source for Emma.

[Squidboy]

The last two issues were all about the over emphasis. The X-Men are all about being green, about sex, about money, etc.

Don't forget cribs! I'm sure Scott's obsession with cribs will be mentioned again and again

[MartinRedmond]

Btw he is not building a crib, he is assembling one. Probably from Ikea.

[jarrod]

I, um... actually liked 501 more than 500 too. Queer bashing and all.


Also, Warren's not the only X-Man who's loaded. Emma, Ororo and Roberto (he's "around" right) are more than well off themselves. Betsy too, whenever she returns. Ditto for Rogue.

[LawGiver]

I, um... actually liked 501 more than 500 too. Queer bashing and all.


Also, Warren's not the only X-Man who's loaded. Emma, Ororo and Roberto (he's "around" right) are more than well off themselves. Betsy too, whenever she returns. Ditto for Rogue.

Rogue make her fortune from all those boiled peanut stands those hicks in Mississippi have?

[MartinRedmond]

*Jerry Springer crowd noise*

[jarrod]

Rogue make her fortune from all those boiled peanut stands those hicks in Mississippi have?
No... she inherited it from Irene.

[LawGiver]

No... she inherited it from Irene.

Whatever, Southern money, dirty money, I despise the South.

[jarrod]

Whatever, Southern money, dirty money, I despise the South.
Irene's Austrian actually. She had money before relocating to Mississippi.

[LawGiver]

Irene's Austrian actually. She had money before relocating to Mississippi.

Which is in the Southern Hemisphere

[jarrod]

Which is in the Southern Hemisphere
Yes. But no "southern dirty money" was involved. It was just where Irene and Raven went to hide out and raise Rogue.

[LawGiver]

Yes. But no "southern dirty money" was involved. It was just where Irene and Raven went to hide out and raise Rogue.

All money carries gems. Gems make things dirty. Dirty money.

[tetragene]

Whatever, Southern money, dirty money, I despise the South.

... I'm going to eat a bowl of grits over your grave! :mad:

[LawGiver]

... I'm going to eat a bowl of grits over your grave! :mad:

We'll I ruined this special thing we had going.

[Novaya Havoc]

... I'm going to eat a bowl of grits over your grave! :mad:

Ugh. Please do not.

[AcesX1X]

... I'm going to eat a bowl of grits over your grave! :mad:

you put me in the mood to fry up some squash!

[Anodyne]

All money carries gems. Gems make things dirty. Dirty money.
Really? :eek: Most gems polish up real pretty.

[LawGiver]

Really? :eek: Most gems polish up real pretty.

Well done sir, well done, excuse my horrible spelling skills.

[jarrod]

I actually couldn't understand it at first... I was like "gems"? What's he mean?

[LawGiver]

I actually couldn't understand it at first... I was like "gems"? What's he mean?

Apparently I'm the 8 year old in this instance.

[Slung]

I, um... actually liked 501 more than 500 too. Queer bashing and all.


Also, Warren's not the only X-Man who's loaded. Emma, Ororo and Roberto (he's "around" right) are more than well off themselves. Betsy too, whenever she returns. Ditto for Rogue.

Jean's got a whole cavern of treasure in Venice, remember? Why does everyone forget about Jean's secret stash of moolah. I bet she hid it all these years just in case she ran off with Logan and Scott wanted half of all her assets. Good thinking Jean.

[jarrod]

Jean's got a whole cavern of treasure in Venice, remember? Why does everyone forget about Jean's secret stash of moolah. I bet she hid it all these years just in case she ran off with Logan and Scott wanted half of all her assets. Good thinking Jean.
I think you're right, she hid it from Scott.

I guess Rachel's rich now though. :wink:

[darknessatnoon]

Jean's got a whole cavern of treasure in Venice, remember? Why does everyone forget about Jean's secret stash of moolah. I bet she hid it all these years just in case she ran off with Logan and Scott wanted half of all her assets. Good thinking Jean.

looool

the Untold Venice tale. I would like to see that delved into some time. Of course, it probably involves her undercover work as Sage's HC handler.

[DeadXMan]

I don't see the problem with the Karma tagline myself. The other X-Men had cutsey "sum-ups"--Colossus "lovelorn", Angel "gazillionaire", Emma "vixen" etc.

I didn't see it as them inferring that her sexuality was all she was. But in a book (and comic world) primarily made up of heterosexuals, being a lesbian is a unique aspect. Doesn't mean that's "all" she is. Is Warren only defined by his money? No. Is Colossus only defined by his love for Kitty? No. Same case scenerio with Karma.

yes, yes he is. Unless dating someone half your age counts.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I actually couldn't understand it at first... I was like "gems"? What's he mean?

Truly outrageous. Truly truly outrageous.
Jem is my name, no one else is the same Jem is my name

[frog]

... I'm going to eat a bowl of grits over your grave! :mad:

Better yet, make it cheese grits with some hash browns on the side.

[Beast]

Friend showed me this. Pretty much covers it....

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2011/thatsenoughgregland3qq9.jpg

[Anodyne]

Well done sir, well done, excuse my horrible spelling skills.
That's "Well done, ma'am," thank you kindly. :smile:

[Dazzler]

the concert and then texting people at the same time? or is this some hip friso language i don't know about?

Hey! Don't call it Frisco! (or friso..)

It's SAN FRANCISCO. ;)

--Dazz

[k.i.n.g.]

Finally got around to the issue, which I enjoyed.

Particularly liked the Velvet Underground action (one of the best, innovative bands from the 60's-70's for me) and Karma. Also the whole new spin and environment for the team.

[Bingo!]

Hey! Don't call it Frisco! (or friso..)

It's SAN FRANCISCO. ;)

--Dazz

Agreed.

Thank you for your sensibility, Dazz.

[Dagger]

I dont care, but Land draws awesome, his characters look real, and fucking hot...cause lets face it the xmen always looked as if they are hot.....its better than the cartoon shit we get somtimes, after the way Quitely drew emma in New Xmen this is my favorite version
... ...the reason they look real is because they're traced off of models and porn stars. A 5 year old could trace as well as Land does.

[Pedrocas]

I dont care, but Land draws awesome, his characters look real, and fucking hot...cause lets face it the xmen always looked as if they are hot.....its better than the cartoon shit we get somtimes, after the way Quitely drew emma in New Xmen this is my favorite version

How old are you?

[DeniseXfrost]

I dont care, but Land draws awesome, his characters look real, and fucking hot...cause lets face it the xmen always looked as if they are hot.....its better than the cartoon shit we get somtimes, after the way Quitely drew emma in New Xmen this is my favorite version
Hello, Greg.

[pariah-1972]

Hey! Don't call it Frisco! (or friso..)

It's SAN FRANCISCO. ;)

--DazzWhy can't i call it "frisco" ? :frown:

[darknessatnoon]

Hello, Greg.

LOL

I love you, V.

[timbox]

LOL

I love you, V.

Me too, even more.

[AdamYJ]

Why can't i call it "frisco" ? :frown:

Only tourists call it that. People who actually live there call it by its actual name. If you ever called it "Frisco" in San Francisco, you'd stick out like a sore thumb. At least, that's what I hear (I've never been there, myself).

Anyway, I liked the issue. It's fun to see the X-Men being happy. They're usually so drenched in angst. I mean, I know their life is hard, but it's their life. They've got to learn to enjoy it when they can. The bit about Hank and the Hot Pockets was funny. Obviously Hank, being the classy guy he is, wants to make some real food. Also, I like Scott's comment about Greymalkin Industries being a haven for mutants both powered and depowered. No more of this giving depowered mutants the bum's rush. Maybe the New Warriors can stop in for a short crossover in the future.

[Beast]

Maybe the New Warriors can stop in for a short crossover in the future.
That would be nice. Would give the New Warriors a nice sales boost.

[jester1436]

Maybe the New Warriors can stop in for a short crossover in the future.

Gross.

Only if it means the New Warriors disband and hook back up with the X-Men.

[greenshoes713]

Gross.

Only if it means the New Warriors disband and hook back up with the X-Men.

LOL
Cyclops: Come join us ex-mutant brethren *extends arms*
New Warriors: *step foward*
Cyclops: PSYQUE

How do you spell ^?

[marvell2100]

I don't know if it's been brought up or not but I was wondering, why didn't Emma psychically(damn, it hurt to say that) sense what was happening to Pixie?

[AdamYJ]

That would be nice. Would give the New Warriors a nice sales boost.

Yeah, there's that. Plus, the X-Men and the New Warriors seem to have some unresolved issues (granted, the New Warriors seem to be all about unresolved issues, but I think some of that will change next week). It would be fun to see how they react to and interact with each other now that the X-Men are in such a happier place than they used to be. It could go a number of ways. Maybe the New Warriors would forgive them, maybe they'd see them as being even more hypocritical. They're kind of "fair weather friends" if you think about it. They're a beacon for mutants both powered and depowered now that they're having fun in San Francisco. And of course, who can tell how the X-Men would react to the New Warriors? That is, provided that the X-Men figure out who they are.

I also just think it would be nice to see another "old-fashioned" crossover. You know, when you have a two-to-four issue story that crosses over between two titles and only two titles. It starts in one and ends in another. That's how most crossovers used to be done before the days of the big, giant mega-crossover. Nowadays, you only seem to see them when Peter David is writing two titles for the same company (like She-Hulk and X-Factor).

Gross.

Only if it means the New Warriors disband and hook back up with the X-Men.

What are you going on about? The New Warriors are awesome. :tongue:

[DeniseXfrost]

I don't know if it's been brought up or not but I was wondering, why didn't Emma psychically(damn, it hurt to say that) sense what was happening to Pixie?
Too busy having sex, plus she never has a bond with pixie.

[Bamf25]

I don't know if it's been brought up or not but I was wondering, why didn't Emma psychically(damn, it hurt to say that) sense what was happening to Pixie?


Emma's sensing power has never been established to the point the Xavier's was. When it has been used it has always been someone she has very very close ties too, like cyclops, or the Coocoos

[DeniseXfrost]

^ Cuckoos LOL.

[Bamf25]

^ Cuckoos LOL.


Yeah yeah, :P

[cyclops2500]

Absolutely, 100% horrid issue.

I defended 500; I will NOT defend 501.

For one, gay bashing rubbed me the wrong way.
For second, attempting the gay bash on Karma DOUBLY-rubbed me the wrong way.

Land's art grated. Pornface Pixie got ENOUGH flak on the 500 cover -- did we need it when she was getting, well, mutie-bashed along with her gay friend?

NO Dazzler as promised.

And the RED QUEEN is as ridiculous now as it was when CC did it with DARK JEAN GREY in New Excalibur.

And Empath being a wimpy S&M bottom only adds fuel to the fire.

Sorry, but I hate to admit that the Magnemites were right about 500 and the "new direction." This was absolutely god-awful and doesn't pick up at ALL from 500.

I'm no fan of Land's art, but I thought the story was fine. Empath has never impressed me as a character and his current position is not surprising. I don't understand the whole thing surrounding the opening scene. Let me be clear, gay bashing is a despicable thing, but I don't think Bru and Fraction were sitting there saying "Wouldn't it be a great statement, socio-politically, if we wrote out a hate crime? That would show people how wrong it is to be different." It was just a way to bring the conflict into the narrative and to involve the reader, who is supposed to be just as outraged at the hate crime as the characters. That's all I saw, no glorification, no proselytizing, no opinion one way or the other.

[AdamYJ]

I don't know if it's been brought up or not but I was wondering, why didn't Emma psychically(damn, it hurt to say that) sense what was happening to Pixie?

Because if they took care of the problem that early, the issue would have been a whole lot shorter. :tongue:

[Justin K.]

Absolutely, 100% horrid issue.

I defended 500; I will NOT defend 501.

For one, gay bashing rubbed me the wrong way.
For second, attempting the gay bash on Karma DOUBLY-rubbed me the wrong way.

Land's art grated. Pornface Pixie got ENOUGH flak on the 500 cover -- did we need it when she was getting, well, mutie-bashed along with her gay friend?

NO Dazzler as promised.

And the RED QUEEN is as ridiculous now as it was when CC did it with DARK JEAN GREY in New Excalibur.

And Empath being a wimpy S&M bottom only adds fuel to the fire.

Sorry, but I hate to admit that the Magnemites were right about 500 and the "new direction." This was absolutely god-awful and doesn't pick up at ALL from 500.

Not absolutely horrid, just a crappy turn for the X-men.

I see no Gay bashing as well, I hear no hate speech as well, except for mutants, ut, how do you know Pixies friend is gay? Just because a guy hangs out with a Pink-Haired Pixie Chick and goes to Dazzler concerts doesn't mean he's gay :tongue:

New Pixie, not feeling her, I liked her with freckles on her cheeks. I can't believe they forgot freckles, and you could barely notice her black streaks :frown: she looks more like a raver than a Pixie

[DDM]

I liked Karma's jacket

but isn't it always hot?

No, you're getting mixed up with the South. In the Summer, it's usually hot & muggy around June-mid-October. The best time is usually in the Spring when it's not too hot or too cold in March-June. We also have mild Winters for the most part.

The City by the Bay is rather cool due to it's location.

[wolvie616]

You know i'm not gonna be able to pick on you if you are going to be so dense !

yep:evilsmile:

[marvell2100]

Well, we've wandered a fair distance from the actual thread topic (then again, the thread is 55 pages long, what else is there to say?). :tongue:

Yeah, but it was fun saying it.

Ok we've learned that Emma can't sense anything while having sex, Pixie didn't stay in Wolvie's hand-to-hand combat class long enough to learn how to handle multiple attackers and Hank's paws have a reverse mutation thing going. Why is Warren driving when he has wings?

[wolvie616]

Yeah, but it was fun saying it.

Ok we've learned that Emma can't sense anything while having sex, Pixie didn't stay in Wolvie's hand-to-hand combat class long enough to learn how to handle multiple attackers and Hank's paws have a reverse mutation thing going. Why is Warren driving when he has wings?

1. pixie will never ever never be a wolvie cadet since she got wupped like that
2. warren drives since it looks cool:cool:

[eurazn]

Emma's sensing power has never been established to the point the Xavier's was. When it has been used it has always been someone she has very very close ties too, like cyclops, or the Coocoos

Didn't she telepathically broadcast Cyclops' invitation of sanctuary in San Francisco to mutants all around the world? I doubt she's had close ties to all those people.

Not necessarily... maybe more Hellfire Whipping Scenes :wink:
or more Karma :smile: , maybe the Dazzler appearance that was supposedly promised :wink:

It would have been perfect for Dazzler to return considering her first appearance in X-Men included Hellfire Club goons in those masks. But I suppose that would have detracted from Cyclops' badass-ery (Heaven forbid!) because he's sure going to make those guys pay now, grrrrrr!

[Samy]

I thought the issue was fine. Not great, but decent and serviceable.

My favorite part was that Karma was written so confidently. She wasn't in the least stressing about playing bait for the Cult. Great. Finally New Mutants written like the pros they should be after 26 years of publication.

My second favorite part was getting to see Empath again. It's really nice to see him messing around with peoples' heads again. It's been far far too long. I'm curious to see the big picture and how his motivation works out.

The rest was pretty paint by numbers. Can't say I'm too excited about yet more screen time for Scott, Emma, Logan, Hank, Kurt. I guess I'm just overdosed on them. Looking forward to more bit players like Karma and Dazzler being used more. Tired of the big names.

[sHayden]

This issue was junk.
It just proves that Brubaker and Fraction aren't the gods marvel think they are.
Not that they're working with the best material, but still..

[pariah-1972]

This issue was junk.
It just proves that Brubaker and Fraction aren't the gods marvel think they are.
Not that they're working with the best material, but still..It's starting to make me reminisce over Chuck Austins work:redface:

[DDM]

Uncanny X-Men #501 continues its descent into mediocrity for the following reasons:


Decompression is hurting the stories Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction are attempting to tell. By the time you get the end of the book, I ask where's the story???
I think Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction should have followed an earlier example by saving a minority from getting a beating instead of one of the X-Men getting the pulp beat out of them. The beating itself should not have been the main thrust for the story. Why? It's predictable & turns heroes into victims, literally.
The Hellfire Cult is a sick parody of the Hellfire Club. I am not impressed with demented Nazi's--a safe protagonist BTW--among the mysterious joke wrapped inside a stale punchline called the Red Queen. All the villains seem to to self-aware they are in a comic book which further destroys what is left of a story.
Greg Land's tracings is a perfect match for Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction's attempt to be credible writers on Uncanny X-Men just emphasing how wrong all three are for the book. Pretenders all--at least for Uncanny X-Men--who should not be on the book. The editors need to wake up from their comas & hire writers who can write Uncanny X-Men & not treat them like a joke.


1/10 (automatically starts at 5/10 due to decompression)

[tetragene]

Uncanny X-Men #501 continues its descent into mediocrity for the following reasons:


Decompression is hurting the stories Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction are attempting to tell. By the time you get the end of the book, I ask where's the story???
I think Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction should have followed an earlier example by saving a minority from getting a beating instead of one of the X-Men getting the pulp beat out of them. The beating itself should not have been the main thrust for the story. Why? It's predictable & turns heroes into victims, literally.
The Hellfire Cult is a sick parody of the Hellfire Club. I am not impressed with demented Nazi's--a safe protagonist BTW--among the mysterious joke wrapped inside a stale punchline called the Red Queen. All the villains seem to to self-aware they are in a comic book which further destroys what is left of a story.
Greg Land's tracings is a perfect match for Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction's attempt to be credible writers on Uncanny X-Men just emphasing how wrong all three are for the book. Pretenders all--at least for Uncanny X-Men--who should not be on the book. The editors need to wake up from their comas & hire writers who can write Uncanny X-Men & not treat them like a joke.


1/10 (automatically starts at 5/10 due to decompression)

1/10? Now that's harsh and unfair. Critique the book, sure, but I'm sorry--you gave certain other books 8/10 or better consistently and those stories were decompressed, literally made no sense & did not add up in the greater framework of said books. You're showing definite bias by giving this issue a 1/10, DDM...

I didn't think this lone issue was stellar, but it was good and it's the start of an arc. I agree having the X-men step in for another minority for a change instead of "one of their own" (yet again) would have been more interesting for a change and shown how, while they are trying to protect their own, their scope reaches victims/minorities outside their own. But I still think a 1/10 rating is entirely unjust. I could have done without more Emma/Cyclops sex and the Red Queen is laughable, but come on. No way does this issue deserve a 1/10. And I say that even though there was NO Dazzler as was promised.

[DDM]

1/10? Now that's harsh and unfair. Critique the book, sure, but I'm sorry--you gave certain other books 8/10 or better consistently and those stories were decompressed, literally made no sense & did not add up in the greater framework of said books. You're showing definite bias by giving this issue a 1/10, DDM...

I didn't think this lone issue was stellar, but it was good and it's the start of an arc. I agree having the X-men step in for another minority for a change instead of "one of their own" (yet again) would have been more interesting for a change and shown how, while they are trying to protect their own, their scope reaches victims/minorities outside their own. But I still think a 1/10 rating is entirely unjust. I could have done without more Emma/Cyclops sex and the Red Queen is laughable, but come on. No way does this issue deserve a 1/10. And I say that even though there was NO Dazzler as was promised.

Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction, at least to me with their stories thus far, seem to not be taking the characters seriously. They focus on the wrong things while losing focus on the big picture; it's all rather predictable.

The decompression does not help matters & hinders Matt Fraction & Ed Brubaker to the point they might as well not even by trying to write a story.

1/10 is generous given the taste the story left upon reading it.

Matt Fraction is going down further on the hook with stupid stories as these. Soon, he might as well as call himself bait for the bigger fish.

[tetragene]

Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction, at least to me with their stories thus far, seem to not be taking the characters seriously. They focus on the wrong things while losing focus on the big picture; it's all rather predictable.

The decompression does not help matters & hinders Matt Fraction & Ed Brubaker to the point they might as well not even by trying to write a story.

1/10 is generous given the taste the story left upon reading it.

Matt Fraction is going down further on the hook with stupid stories as these. Soon, he might as well as call himself bait for the bigger fish.

ok, but if you're going to break it down like that to justify your 1/10 score--then how on Earth could you consistently give NEX and DBTS 8/10 & better? There were TONS of unresolved plots, events happening which dictate prior events in the same book, characters introduced and then ultimately forgotten about (Rouge Mort?), "humanistic" plots that were ham-fisted, the team banding together itself made no sense, characters that for all intents and purposes did not read like the characters whose names were attached to them, etc, etc?

I just have a lot of trouble swallowing that pitiful score you gave this issue given your previous track record of great scores for books that were far greater offenders of the things you gave as "bad writing".

[LawGiver]

Uncanny X-Men #501 continues its descent into mediocrity for the following reasons:


Decompression is hurting the stories Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction are attempting to tell. By the time you get the end of the book, I ask where's the story???
I think Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction should have followed an earlier example by saving a minority from getting a beating instead of one of the X-Men getting the pulp beat out of them. The beating itself should not have been the main thrust for the story. Why? It's predictable & turns heroes into victims, literally.
The Hellfire Cult is a sick parody of the Hellfire Club. I am not impressed with demented Nazi's--a safe protagonist BTW--among the mysterious joke wrapped inside a stale punchline called the Red Queen. All the villains seem to to self-aware they are in a comic book which further destroys what is left of a story.
Greg Land's tracings is a perfect match for Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction's attempt to be credible writers on Uncanny X-Men just emphasing how wrong all three are for the book. Pretenders all--at least for Uncanny X-Men--who should not be on the book. The editors need to wake up from their comas & hire writers who can write Uncanny X-Men & not treat them like a joke.


1/10 (automatically starts at 5/10 due to decompression)

I love your posts. You and KiplingKat bring me great cheer.

Also the Red Queen is obviously a homage to the Goblyn Queen.

[metr0man]

wow, an anti-mutant bigot gang/group attacks and beats down a mutant.

Gee, haven't seen that before in 500 issues of X-Men.

[LawGiver]

wow, an anti-mutant bigot gang/group attacks and beats down a mutant.

Gee, haven't seen that before in 500 issues of X-Men.

We actually don't know if they are that bigotted towards mutants, since Empath is controlling them it makes it hard to assume anything about the attackers true motives.

[pariah-1972]

I'm starting to wonder what the point of this book is if all we are gonna get is re-hashed Claremont-isms, hell to be honest i think Claremont could do a little bit better job i think.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm starting to wonder what the point of this book is if all we are gonna get is re-hashed Claremont-isms, hell to be honest i think Claremont could do a little bit better job i think.

I hereby nominate you as Most Comedic Poster of the Month.

[pariah-1972]

I hereby nominate you as Most Comedic Poster of the Month.Hey cool i finally won something around here !
:biggrin:

[DDM]

I'm starting to wonder what the point of this book is if all we are gonna get is re-hashed Claremont-isms, hell to be honest i think Claremont could do a little bit better job i think.

It's not a rehash of Claremontisms--whatever that is--but a sad attempt of two writers who have no clue what the X-Men are about.

[LawGiver]

It's not a rehash of Claremontisms--whatever that is--but a sad attempt of two writers who have no clue what the X-Men are about.

Yea because the Red Queen doesn't look like anything he could come up with.

There has been plenty of plot lines established in #500 to carry this book for the next 3-4 years.

[Swashbuckler]

I don't think this book is nearly as bad as most people are saying. I think it's just Greg Lands art that is making it such a let down. Honestly. Though I'm not a huge fan of the Dodson's either.

[pariah-1972]

It's not a rehash of Claremontisms--whatever that is--but a sad attempt of two writers who have no clue what the X-Men are about. Ok the Claremont-isms i see are thus : All the characters they are using (save Pixie) are the ones that Claremont made or made popular.
2. he moved the X-men to San Fran during the second Secret War for a time and also moved them to various other places too like Australia
3. Over Emphasizing the bigotry themes in the x-men
4. Overly expository dialogue that feels forced and leaden
. 5. Fetish wear and use of sexual Sub-cultures like Bondage and wipping and sado-masochism etc etc

6. Mind control is one of Claremont's favorite pet themes.

Those are just the ones that are hitting me off the top off my head i expect there to be more.

[LawGiver]

Ok the Claremont-isms i see are thus : All the characters they are using (save Pixie) are the ones that Claremont made or made popular.
2. he moved the X-men to San Fran during the second Secret War for a time and also moved them to various other places too like Australia
3. Over Emphasizing the bigotry themes in the x-men
4. Overly expository dialogue that feels forced and leaden
. 5. Fetish wear and use of sexual Sub-cultures like Bondage and wipping and sado-masochism etc etc

6. Mind control is one of Claremont's favorite pet themes.

Those are just the ones that are hitting me off the top off my head i expect there to be more.

#2,3 and 4 aren't unique to Claremont.

#5 and 6 are.

[pariah-1972]

#2,3 and 4 aren't unique to Claremont.

#5 and 6 are.Moving the group to San Fran is not unique to Claremont? was it Shooters idea then??

[darknessatnoon]

Moving the group to San Fran is not unique to Claremont? was it Shooters idea then??

He moved them there for four issues just so he could showcase the lesbian relationship of Jessica Drew and Lindsay McCabe. That's it. It was hardly a definitive, ground-breaking, move.

And they never actually moved there. They were visiting and considered the idea. Four issues at Cassidy Keep didn't mean that the X-Men moved to Ireland.

[pariah-1972]

He moved them there for four issues just so he could showcase the lesbian relationship of Jessica Drew and Lindsay McCabe. That's it. It was hardly a definitive, ground-breaking, move.

And they never actually moved there. They were visiting and considered the idea. Four issues at Cassidy Keep didn't mean that the X-Men moved to Ireland.They were there longer than they are right now so i think it's still relevant.
But yes it was only a temporary stay.

[LawGiver]

They were there longer than they are right now so i think it's still relevant.
But yes it was only a temporary stay.

Not relevant, we know they are staying, they are creating bases all along the landscape. This is the status quo for the time being.

[Swashbuckler]

A Part of me feels that by trying to utilize SOME of Claremont's elements the writers are hoping to A) throw back for old fans B) get back to what got the X-Men going so well in the 80's. It isn't that they arent' original, they are just trying to get things back on track after all the garbage that came with the 90's and stuff like "The Twelve".

[Beast]

There's a huge difference though.

Jean Grey as Black Queen was still classy.
Maddy Pryor as Red Queen is not. In any way, shape, or form.

[LawGiver]

There's a huge difference though.

Jean Grey as Black Queen was still classy.
Maddy Pryor as Red Queen is not. In any way, shape, or form.

The Goblyn Queen?
Illyana are the Drakchylde?
Storm's outfit?

[ExodusCloak]

There's a huge difference though.

Jean Grey as Black Queen was still classy.
Maddy Pryor as Red Queen is not. In any way, shape, or form.

I thought it was implied that Jean did favours for Wyngarde behind closed doors?

[pariah-1972]

A Part of me feels that by trying to utilize SOME of Claremont's elements the writers are hoping to A) throw back for old fans B) get back to what got the X-Men going so well in the 80's. It isn't that they arent' original, they are just trying to get things back on track after all the garbage that came with the 90's and stuff like "The Twelve".Well a lot of people said that Josh Whedon was a throwback to Claremont, but i never got that feeling but maybe the difference is that bruction don't feel like they are moving forward or even putting there own stamp on things it just feels like a re-hash of everything thats been done before.

[darknessatnoon]

The Goblyn Queen?
Illyana are the Drakchylde?
Storm's outfit?

I know Havok's Goblin Prince outfit was not classy.

[Swashbuckler]

Well a lot of people said that Josh Whedon was a throwback to Claremont, but i never got that feeling but maybe the difference is that bruction don't feel like they are moving forward or even putting there own stamp on things it just feels like a re-hash of everything thats been done before.

I definitely feel like this is moving foward. The new location, the larger team, Cyclops wanting to re-produce with Emma, the celestial sub-plot about repowering mutants, it's all stuff that is moving things foward. Yes, the image of the Red Queen was lame and cheesy, but I honestly think that is mostly Lands fault. It's a corny gimmick perhaps, but in the end I think it will tie in and make sense. And really, complaining about bigotry being a theme isn't fair. This is X-Men. It's all about bigotry. Always has been. And I am sure Marvel is considering that issue 500 may have been a jumping on point so having a theme that deal with one of the X-Men's central core ideaologies isn't out of place or "over done" here, in my opinion.

[LawGiver]

Well a lot of people said that Josh Whedon was a throwback to Claremont, but i never got that feeling but maybe the difference is that bruction don't feel like they are moving forward or even putting there own stamp on things it just feels like a re-hash of everything thats been done before.

#500 set up plenty of new plots, the team up of Magneto/High Evolutionary, the Celestial/Eternal connection are just two of them. Not to mention stuff from previous Brubaker arcs like the Diaries.

The interaction with the public is something that has rarely been done and the involvement with the local government and authorities is pretty new. The sanctuary for depowered mutants and their families was something that was also set up in #501.

There is plenty of new-direction in this book.

[pariah-1972]

I definitely feel like this is moving foward. The new location, the larger team, Cyclops wanting to re-produce with Emma, the celestial sub-plot about repowering mutants, it's all stuff that is moving things foward. Yes, the image of the Red Queen was lame and cheesy, but I honestly think that is mostly Lands fault. It's a corny gimmick perhaps, but in the end I think it will tie in and make sense. And really, complaining about bigotry being a theme isn't fair. This is X-Men. It's all about bigotry. Always has been. And I am sure Marvel is considering that issue 500 may have been a jumping on point so having a theme that deal with one of the X-Men's central core ideaologies isn't out of place or "over done" here, in my opinion.I'm still not sure who is or isn't on the team for sure yet, but the last issue featured nothing but the "all new all different' era save for Pixie and Karma who were shoved to the margins.

The Celestial sub plot was completely forgotten this issue and it doesn't look like it's coming back tho i could be wrong.

Cyclops mentioned a lot about babies but were not sure yet how serious he is about wanting to have babies with Emma who doesn't really seem like the type to want to settle down and raise a family.

Theres nothing wrong with the Bigotry theme if handled well but this wasn't in my opinion.

[pariah-1972]

#500 set up plenty of new plots, the team up of Magneto/High Evolutionary, the Celestial/Eternal connection are just two of them. Not to mention stuff from previous Brubaker arcs like the Diaries.

The interaction with the public is something that has rarely been done and the involvement with the local government and authorities is pretty new. The sanctuary for depowered mutants and their families was something that was also set up in #501.

There is plenty of new-direction in this book.You make some small points but i don't get the feeling that this book is moving forward or developing new interesting plots.

Maybe it's just the whole disturbing Red Queen thing thats distracting me.

[LawGiver]

You make some small points but i don't get the feeling that this book is moving forward or developing new interesting plots.

Maybe it's just the whole disturbing Red Queen thing thats distracting me.

I don't see how those plots can be seen as anything other than new, interesting is a matter of perspective so I can't debate that with you.

While I agree, the Red Queen was a bit much, if it turns out to be either the Messiah Baby or Maddy Pryor as some folks think, it could prove to be very interesting.

[Swashbuckler]

I think the Celestial being left out of 501 was fine. That's a plot point yes, but it isn't the focus of this arc, which is moving to a new place and fighting the Cult. I think people feel annoyed with the moving stuff because it was hyped so much. If we ignored Marvel press realeases and spoilers I think people would honestly be much more pleased with the books. Astonishing did mention the new turf, but not how Uncanny is, which is it's job as the flagship title. Revealing that the X-Men were working at Warren's base was interesting. And learning how they function in the city is most likely going to prove relevant down the line when Tony Stark gets irritated about the initiative and what rules the X-Men are breaking.

[tetragene]

The Goblyn Queen?
Illyana are the Drakchylde?
Storm's outfit?

lol, what are you talkin' about? Boobs about to fall out & hoo-ha blowin' in the wind--that's the pinnacle of class.

At least the Red Queen looks properly supported.

It's not the early 80's anymore, the original HFC could get the "risque/perverse/taboo/sex club" idea across merely exposing some leg cleavage, a corset & a whip & shit. That's child's play for today's generation. You see more risque stuff than that on a daytime soap opera. So the more literal S&M approach comes off stronger where the HFCult is concerned. Just because the old HFC was like 18th century throwback (I dunno--my history is bad!) doesn't make them classier. For all intents & purposes they were MEANT to come across smutty & taboo.

[jarrod]

500/501 feel like lightning speed progress compared to the previous arc's 5 issue sidewalk stroll. Keep it going please Sexy Fraction.

[Joe Franklin]

Serves Pixie and her little gay friend right.

--Dazz

That's Pixie's boy toy, he's not gay in the least. Read the first page again. The guy is not gay.

[tetragene]

That's Pixie's boy toy, he's not gay in the least. Read the first page again. The guy is not gay.

where does it indicate definitively that he's straight? There's no clear indicator at all on whether he's gay or straight. You can either infer from the fact that he's walking around with Pixie that he's "trying to get in her pants." Or infer from his dialogue/way of speaking that he's gay. Frankly, I think the whole "he went to the Dazzler concert because he was trying to get in her crotchez!!!11!!1!" argument to be both laughable & weak. What straight guy talks like that? He seemed more concern with lobbing praise at Dazzler than flirting/trying to get with Pixie. As it stands, from the actual issue--that guy reads as a bigger fairy than Pixie.

[Swashbuckler]

where does it indicate definitively that he's straight? There's no clear indicator at all on whether he's gay or straight. You can either infer from the fact that he's walking around with Pixie that he's "trying to get in her pants." Or infer from his dialogue/way of speaking that he's gay. Frankly, I think the whole "he went to the Dazzler concert because he was trying to get in her crotchez!!!11!!1!" argument to be both laughable & weak. What straight guy talks like that? He seemed more concern with lobbing praise at Dazzler than flirting/trying to get with Pixie. As it stands, from the actual issue--that guy reads as a bigger fairy than Pixie.

Sounds like your stereo-typing straight guys. Everyone is an individual. Hetero-phobe.

[pariah-1972]

where does it indicate definitively that he's straight? There's no clear indicator at all on whether he's gay or straight. You can either infer from the fact that he's walking around with Pixie that he's "trying to get in her pants." Or infer from his dialogue/way of speaking that he's gay. Frankly, I think the whole "he went to the Dazzler concert because he was trying to get in her crotchez!!!11!!1!" argument to be both laughable & weak. What straight guy talks like that? He seemed more concern with lobbing praise at Dazzler than flirting/trying to get with Pixie. As it stands, from the actual issue--that guy reads as a bigger fairy than Pixie.He was waiting for the right moment :wink:

[tetragene]

Sounds like your stereo-typing straight guys. Everyone is an individual. Hetero-phobe.

I would like it to be known that I am NOT a hetero-phobe. I'm an equal opportunist. I will sleep with "straight" or gay guys :wink:

[Justin K.]

That's Pixie's boy toy, he's not gay in the least. Read the first page again. The guy is not gay.

He probably inhaled some of that pixie dust :rolleyes:

[pariah-1972]

I would like it to be known that I am NOT a hetero-phobe. I'm an equal opportunist. I will sleep with "straight" or gay guys :wink:Don't forget the bi sexual ones too.

[oneshyguy46]

Don't forget the bi sexual ones too.

I would have to agree with this comment. He probably is.

[Justin K.]

Don't forget the bi sexual ones too.

or those ones who are straight, but bi-curious and like to experiment

[darknessatnoon]

All this is beside the point.

That kid is not a "straight-acting gay." He's straight-up gay.

[Justin K.]

All this is beside the point.

That kid is not a "straight-acting gay." He's straight-up gay.

Jut because a guy hangs out with a pink-haired pixie and goes to Dazzler disco concerts doesn't mean he's gay :rolleyes:

[timbox]

Actually, he's a she. The Hellfire Cult is anti-women.

[tetragene]

Don't forget the bi sexual ones too.

if I'll sleep with a "straight" guy and/or a gay guy then it goes without saying I'd sleep with someone "in between" lol

All this is beside the point.

That kid is not a "straight-acting gay." He's straight-up gay.

LOL, I like when you post

[eurazn]

I'm still not sure who is or isn't on the team for sure yet, but the last issue featured nothing but the "all new all different' era save for Pixie and Karma who were shoved to the margins.

If anything, the team is a throwback to the status quo. I'd have to agree with you on this one, the lineup needs to be very different than its current incarnation in order to seem "all new all different."

The Celestial sub plot was completely forgotten this issue and it doesn't look like it's coming back tho i could be wrong.

I don't think we've seen the last of that sub plot by any means. I'd rather it not be the central focus of the story until its been built up a little more, anyway.

Cyclops mentioned a lot about babies but were not sure yet how serious he is about wanting to have babies with Emma who doesn't really seem like the type to want to settle down and raise a family.

Babies fare even worse than minorities do in the X-universe, so I doubt there's another baby (aside from the one Cable is running around with) on the horizon, unless there are plans to infect another child with a virus and send it into the future or have it grow up to have an inappropriate relationship with a genetic copy of its mom.

Theres nothing wrong with the Bigotry theme if handled well but this wasn't in my opinion.

I have to agree with this sentiment also, at least for the time being, as it seems to be another catalyst for Cyclops to prove his mettle. I really hope it evolves into something more than that, because we get it, he's a bad-ass, the point has already been made!

[tetragene]

Jut because a guy hangs out with a pink-haired pixie and goes to Dazzler disco concerts doesn't mean he's gay :rolleyes:

No, but the "Oh. My. God" & "I was like pop & freak, pop, pop & freak" & raving about a dance/pop diva certainly doesn't mean he's "straight" either.

[Justin K.]

No, but the "Oh. My. God" & "I was like pop & freak, pop, pop & freak" & raving about a dance/pop diva certainly doesn't mean he's "straight" either.

I was sort of being sarcastic there :tongue:
He probably is

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/Pixie.jpg

[Justin K.]

Actually, he's a she. The Hellfire Cult is anti-women.


Why's there a Red Queen then? :confused:

[oneshyguy46]

I was sort of being sarcastic there :tongue:
He probably is

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/Pixie.jpg

I still say he's bi-sexual. lol.

[timbox]

Why's there a Red Queen then? :confused:

She tortures them, what better way to reinforce their hatred?

[eurazn]

I was sort of being sarcastic there :tongue:
He probably is

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/Pixie.jpg

Look carefully at the bolded/italicized words and the "Love her" statement sans pronoun. The dude's gay. :biggrin:

[Justin K.]

She tortures them, what better way to reinforce their hatred?

How is whipping them and doing S&M supposed to reinforce their hate though?
Not all guys like S&M, but I'm sure a couple members enjoy it :rolleyes:

[tetragene]

I was sort of being sarcastic there :tongue:
He probably is


my apologies then, it's hard to tell who seriously convinces themselves the guy was trying to get into her pants from the snippets of dialogue in 500. It shocks me that there are any to begin with :confused:

[AcesX1X]

How is whipping them and doing S&M supposed to reinforce their hate though?
Not all guys like S&M, but I'm sure a couple members enjoy it :rolleyes:

?? EMPATH enjoys it, which is the only answer that applies. If Empath enjoys it, then everyone enjoys it.

[Anna]

Actually, when I figured that Pixie's friend wasn't Julian I no longer cared.

I do wonder why if there's been mutant bashings going on, why the X-Men didn't react faster.

Didn't Skein/Gypsy Moth live in Cali?

[Pixie_Solanas]

Seriously, my issue is missing A LOT OF the Pixie scenes. WTF?

[$5 Milkshake]

The kid's not gay, he's just a metrosexual into heavy experimentation.

[lockerogue]

I was sort of being sarcastic there :tongue:
He probably is

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/Pixie.jpg

All I noticed is that weird looking hand. Its bothering me.

[AppleBottomJeansBootsWithDaFur]

I started picking up X-Men comics again with #500 and I have to say I am really loving this direction. I have managed to catch up by purchasing the Messiah Complex Hardcover and Wikipedia (That thing will is a great source).

I also really like the artist, it does seem a little bit posed but I really like it. It flows really well and the teleportation scene at the end was really cool, have they ever done a fastball special like that before?

[Justin K.]

All I noticed is that weird looking hand. Its bothering me.

The hand, the smile, and the bracelet gave me the impression, plus he said he does loves Dazzler :redface:

[pariah-1972]

I started picking up X-Men comics again with #500 and I have to say I am really loving this direction. I have managed to catch up by purchasing the Messiah Complex Hardcover and Wikipedia (That thing will is a great source).

I also really like the artist, it does seem a little bit posed but I really like it. It flows really well and the teleportation scene at the end was really cool, have they ever done a fastball special like that before?Nope it's a brand new tactic.

[pariah-1972]

If he sleeps with a faerie can he still be considered gay?

[Justin K.]

If he sleeps with a faerie can he still be considered gay?

she's still female though
but she has no soul

Maybe?

[Peter F.]

If he sleeps with a faerie can he still be considered gay?

He'd just be a very confused teenager.

[pariah-1972]

she's still female though
but she has no soul

Maybe?A lot of females i know have no soul:tongue:

[Justin K.]

A lot of females i know have no soul:tongue:


Well, if Pixie has a sideways smile (if you catch my drift on what that is), then I guess he wouldnt be gay for sleeping with her.

[DeadXMan]

I know Havok's Goblin Prince outfit was not classy.

The guy %$^&* his brother's crazy wife.
Class is not in Havok's vocabulary.
and frankly it's one of his better costumes

[pariah-1972]

Well, if Pixie has a sideways smile (if you catch my drift on what that is), then I guess he wouldnt be gay for sleeping with her.Yeah i'm lost.:confused:

[cgar]

Yeah i'm lost.:confused:

look at your lips and turn them sideways..its suppose to um portray something from a womans hidden zone.seriously this is not the place to be talking about this lol....this board makes me dirty

[AppleBottomJeansBootsWithDaFur]

Well, if Pixie has a sideways smile (if you catch my drift on what that is), then I guess he wouldnt be gay for sleeping with her.

Are you talking about having sex with an underage girl? That's disgusting.

[LungerTony]

So this guy is supposed to be gay because he likes Dazzler and has a "the claw" hand? Wuhfuk?

Anyway, loved the issue. I like the X-Men, and ths far have been enjoying the "new 500 twist" on them.
But what is the constant deal with homosexuality it seems? Between the alleged first script had supposedly a gay beatdown or something..and Karma "she likes girls too." Huh? I know its SanFran..but it is a comic...about X-Men.
The Hellfire Club is an anti-mutant group? Does that automatically make them anti-gay too? I've never heard of them being anti-gay, but I am not the most knowledgable X-fan.

Oh, and I'm not a Pixie fan at all. But she gets points for taking the beatdown like a trooper.
I was only left wondering if she walked back from Oakland or took a taxi and really freaked out the driver.

[Justin K.]

So this guy is supposed to be gay because he likes Dazzler and has a "the claw" hand? Wuhfuk?

Anyway, loved the issue. I like the X-Men, and ths far have been enjoying the "new 500 twist" on them.
But what is the constant deal with homosexuality it seems? Between the alleged first script had supposedly a gay beatdown or something..and Karma "she likes girls too." Huh? I know its SanFran..but it is a comic...about X-Men.
The Hellfire Club is an anti-mutant group? Does that automatically make them anti-gay too? I've never heard of them being anti-gay, but I am not the most knowledgable X-fan.

Oh, and I'm not a Pixie fan at all. But she gets points for taking the beatdown like a trooper.
I was only left wondering if she walked back from Oakland or took a taxi and really freaked out the driver.

Agreed :smile:

[Sunbird]

The book finally comes out in NZ and I can finally comment on it. I can't say I've read all 55 pages of comments (55! Wow!) but I read the first few and am somewhat confused by some of the reactions. Gay bashing? Pixie isn't gay and we have no idea if the other guy is (or even who he is).

I'm not a fan of the art but I liked the story, I think they hit the characters fairly well (though the senior staff getting cars bit annoyed - what is Dani supposed to drive when she gets there?). But it was nice to see Karma all "I'm weak and helpless...NOT!"

[pariah-1972]

The book finally comes out in NZ and I can finally comment on it. I can't say I've read all 55 pages of comments (55! Wow!) but I read the first few and am somewhat confused by some of the reactions. Gay bashing? Pixie isn't gay and we have no idea if the other guy is (or even who he is).

I'm not a fan of the art but I liked the story, I think they hit the characters fairly well (though the senior staff getting cars bit annoyed - what is Dani supposed to drive when she gets there?). But it was nice to see Karma all "I'm weak and helpless...NOT!"Not to be rude but it doesn't seem like you read this book or the beginning of this thread-- the writers were going to have the hellfire cult make a homophobic remark while beating the kid but it was apparently changed at the last minute so as not to "offend" anyone.
And we do have a pretty good idea that he is supposed to be gay considering the words that he used and that he went to a Dazzler concert with a fairie.



Why do you think Dani is going to come? and what makes you think they care about any of the new mutants besides Cannonball?

[Pixie_Solanas]

So this guy is supposed to be gay because he likes Dazzler and has a "the claw" hand? Wuhfuk?

Anyway, loved the issue. I like the X-Men, and ths far have been enjoying the "new 500 twist" on them.
But what is the constant deal with homosexuality it seems? Between the alleged first script had supposedly a gay beatdown or something..and Karma "she likes girls too." Huh? I know its SanFran..but it is a comic...about X-Men.
The Hellfire Club is an anti-mutant group? Does that automatically make them anti-gay too? I've never heard of them being anti-gay, but I am not the most knowledgable X-fan.

Oh, and I'm not a Pixie fan at all. But she gets points for taking the beatdown like a trooper.
I was only left wondering if she walked back from Oakland or took a taxi and really freaked out the driver.

Physically impossible to walk from Oakland to SF, unless you're game for a jaunty trudge at the bottom of the Bay.

And then she'd have to hightail it to the marin hq. The taxi bill would have been enormous.

[Monty_Cristo]

i love that Empath is back and doing stuff. makes me nostalgic for the days when the New Mutants and Hellions were fake-feuding (and going to fancy dress parties inbetween). now if only Tarot and Roullette would show. i'd ask for Bevatron but i never get what i want anyways.

[worstblogever]

i love that Empath is back and doing stuff. makes me nostalgic for the days when the New Mutants and Hellions were fake-feuding (and going to fancy dress parties inbetween). now if only Tarot and Roullette would show. i'd ask for Bevatron but i never get what i want anyways.

Earlier today, I read into something Cebulski said about "two depowered mutants" with magical backgrounds turning up to potentially mean Tarot.

So you might get what you wish for if I'm a good guesser.

[Sunbird]

Not to be rude but it doesn't seem like you read this book or the beginning of this thread-- the writers were going to have the hellfire cult make a homophobic remark while beating the kid but it was apparently changed at the last minute so as not to "offend" anyone.
And we do have a pretty good idea that he is supposed to be gay considering the words that he used and that he went to a Dazzler concert with a fairie.
I'm a writer (decidedly amateur), and what you think is a good idea at one point in the process and what you decide to actually use in the end are not the same. Perhaps the line was taken out because the writer thought it was laying on the analogy too think (a la V for Vendetta), or perhaps they thought it was distracting from the actual theme, which was anti-mutant bigotry. Perhaps the line just didn't work? (Assuming the line ever existed,we are talking about an alleged script right? Or did I miss confirmation?)

And besides,hanging out with Pixie does not make one gay. Being a fan of the Dazzler does not make one gay (unless Juggernaut is a really really scary bear). In fact, hanging out with gay people in gay bars does not make on gay .

Why do you think Dani is going to come? and what makes you think they care about any of the new mutants besides Cannonball?Dunno, I guess I was fishing for a name of a B-lister and cannonball wouldn't need one on account of his rocket pants. Which part of ensemble cast did you not follow though? I thought almost everyone was on their way. Sunspot and Karma are already there (per this issue and SI tie in).

As for the whole walking back thing, I assume she flew. They look tattered but still functional.

[Monty_Cristo]

Earlier today, I read into something Cebulski said about "two depowered mutants" with magical backgrounds turning up to potentially mean Tarot.

So you might get what you wish for if I'm a good guesser.

well "magic backgrounds" could refer to pretty much any Claremont creation. he has gone a little overboard w/ that stuff in the past. are there any Claremont created X-Men who don't have magic links? Storm's got sorceress roots. Magik's magic. Dani's a valyrie. Kitty got a pet dragon and a mystical foe in Ogun. etc.

[worstblogever]

well "magic backgrounds" could refer to pretty much any Claremont creation. he has gone a little overboard w/ that stuff in the past. are there any Claremont created X-Men who don't have magic links? Storm's got sorceress roots. Magik's magic. Dani's a valyrie. Kitty got a pet dragon and a mystical foe in Ogun. etc.

Something I'm not entirely happy about, but yeah. Check the Cebulski thread for details, we discussed a lot of those characters, but there are only two that are depowered that CC made that seem to really fit the bill.

[pariah-1972]

I'm a writer (decidedly amateur), and what you think is a good idea at one point in the process and what you decide to actually use in the end are not the same. Perhaps the line was taken out because the writer thought it was laying on the analogy too think (a la V for Vendetta), or perhaps they thought it was distracting from the actual theme, which was anti-mutant bigotry. Perhaps the line just didn't work? (Assuming the line ever existed,we are talking about an alleged script right? Or did I miss confirmation?)

And besides,hanging out with Pixie does not make one gay. Being a fan of the Dazzler does not make one gay (unless Juggernaut is a really really scary bear). In fact, hanging out with gay people in gay bars does not make on gay .

Dunno, I guess I was fishing for a name of a B-lister and cannonball wouldn't need one on account of his rocket pants. Which part of ensemble cast did you not follow though? I thought almost everyone was on their way. Sunspot and Karma are already there (per this issue and SI tie in).

As for the whole walking back thing, I assume she flew. They look tattered but still functional.But all the hints were dropped to make us know that he is supposed to be gay without outright saying it.

I think Juggernaut just has a crush on her i don't think hes really all that into her music (tho im sure he pretends)And it has been said that she has done other genres besides disco.
Sunspot is gonna be too busy running the hellfire club to join the team and Karma will probably be forgotten about after this.

[frog]

But all the hints were dropped to make us know that he is supposed to be gay without outright saying it.

I think Juggernaut just has a crush on her i don't think hes really all that into her music (tho im sure he pretends)And it has been said that she has done other genres besides disco.
Sunspot is gonna be too busy running the hellfire club to join the team and Karma will probably be forgotten about after this.

Karma is mentioned as being in X-Infernus.

[pariah-1972]

Karma is mentioned as being in X-Infernus.

Well we will see how big of a role that is considering all but one of the new mutants have been taken out to pasture.

[Sunbird]

But all the hints were dropped to make us know that he is supposed to be gay without outright saying it.

I think Juggernaut just has a crush on her i don't think hes really all that into her music (tho im sure he pretends)And it has been said that she has done other genres besides disco.
Sunspot is gonna be too busy running the hellfire club to join the team and Karma will probably be forgotten about after this.
Hints? What hints? I'm at work so I can't check the last episode, but I haven't noticed anything about him then that set off (my very subpar I'll admit) gaydar. Look, the long history of having to hide gay characters with innuendo and sly and subtle hints means that people read too much into situations when it isn't called for. Marvel generally just comes out with it these days, albeit in context (much like real life, people generally don't just walk up to others and go "I'm Bob, and I like cocks". Life would be a lot funnier if they did)

Oh, and I retract my comment about the wings, when Kurt was holding them they looked very damaged. My bad.

[frog]

Hints? What hints? I'm at work so I can't check the last episode, but I haven't noticed anything about him then that set off (my very subpar I'll admit) gaydar. Look, the long history of having to hide gay characters with innuendo and sly and subtle hints means that people read too much into situations when it isn't called for. Marvel generally just comes out with it these days, albeit in context (much like real life, people generally don't just walk up to others and go "I'm Bob, and I like cocks". Life would be a lot funnier if they did)



Whether or not the hints are conclusive, insider info is that the boy was definitely intended to be gay, but the script was changed by the editors.

[Sunbird]

Whether or not the hints are conclusive, insider info is that the boy was definitely intended to be gay, but the script was changed by the editors.

If you say so. Clearly there are lot of people around here who are more hooked in the me, I just read the damn things when they (finally) get to NZ.

[Monty_Cristo]

anyways. wasn't mind/emotion-control a factor here? i don't think the cult members are thinking right. gay bashing implies that it was a conscious decision to beat them down based on their status as homosexuals. like Empath said, these are a bunch of directionless youth who have been steered towards committing these horrible acts. was it tasteless? sure. but so was the Morlock Massacre. villains are bad. i wish Shortpack had been gay bashed. no one seems to want to use him.

[Sunbird]

anyways. wasn't mind/emotion-control a factor here? i don't think the cult members are thinking right. gay bashing implies that it was a conscious decision to beat them down based on their status as homosexuals. like Empath said, these are a bunch of directionless youth who have been steered towards committing these horrible acts. was it tasteless? sure. but so was the Morlock Massacre. villains are bad. i wish Shortpack had been gay bashed. no one seems to want to use him.
Mobs are generally not prone to thinking, you could probably encourage a mob to do what the cult did without Empath's power. I'm more interested to know if Empath himself is being controlled against his will.

[Monty_Cristo]

Mobs are generally not prone to thinking, you could probably encourage a mob to do what the cult did without Empath's power. I'm more interested to know if Empath himself is being controlled against his will.

i think he's just entered into some kind of S&M relationship w/ whomever the Red Queen is. he's being influenced but i doubt he's really being controlled. of course, there's at least one story where Empath claims to be influenced by the emotional states of others in his presence (Amara's). whatever he and the Red Queen have going, it's certainly intense. maybe they're both being controlled by Johnny Dee (just kidding).

[Monty_Cristo]

i hope that Vincente and Switch are also unrevealed members of the Hellfire Cult.

[Dazzler]

And besides,hanging out with Pixie does not make one gay. Being a fan of the Dazzler does not make one gay (unless Juggernaut is a really really scary bear). In fact, hanging out with gay people in gay bars does not make on gay .


Not to be rude, but the guy was pretty hella gay. It's pretty obvious.

Now, I can understand the Iceman fans who will be in denial about his gayness forevermore (I can't understand WHY they would be in denial, except that they can't deal with their faves being gay....)

But I just can't see all the fuss trying to deny or divert the pretty obvious intention of this six panel throw-away character (albeit with pretty important developments surrounding him) to be pretty, really, honestly, unbelieveably hella gay.

Can't we all just accept that he is or at least is heavily implied to be and move on from it?

--Dazz

[Jack Flash]

i hope that Vincente and Switch are also unrevealed members of the Hellfire Cult.

LOL. I totally agree. Throw in Cordelia and Mondo and you have my full support.

[Sunbird]

But I just can't see all the fuss trying to deny or divert the pretty obvious intention of this six panel throw-away character (albeit with pretty important developments surrounding him) to be pretty, really, honestly, unbelieveably hella gay.

Can't we all just accept that he is or at least is heavily implied to be and move on from it?

--DazzEh, I can't see the fuss either. I don't have anything invested in it either way. I don't think he is, but I don't think he isn't either. I'm agnostic on the issue. Like Schrödinger's Cat he is both gay and not gay until the wavelength collapses and he is shown to be one of the other. Besides with Greg Land's art I can't even tell if he how old he is. Hell, its such a non issue that Fraction didn't even deign to name him.

[LungerTony]

I'll just say if I never visited these boards and heard the insider info rumors about the original phantom script...I never would have made the connection that the guy was supposed to be gay. So in the least, I'll say it was never meant to be obvious that he was supposed to be gay. Want to make it obvious of a gay beatdown? Have Pixie walk out with 2 guys hugging each other.

I just don't like how it seems they are making a connect between anti-mutant bigotry and anti-gay bigotry...as though you must be both.

Anyway...I think the Red Queen is controlling Empath. I HOPE she si controllig Empath.
Because if she isn't...I find the whole S&M implied scene totally tasteless. It introduces nothing besides how kinky these villains are.
I already had about 2-3 full pages of "bedtalk" between Cyclops and a naked Emma.
They were in bed together in 500. I am not adverse to anything sexual in comics, but a pointless S&M scene would be too much for me in X-comics. I don't read X-Men for arousal...

[eurazn]

I'll just say if I never visited these boards and heard the insider info rumors about the original phantom script...I never would have made the connection that the guy was supposed to be gay. So in the least, I'll say it was never meant to be obvious that he was supposed to be gay. Want to make it obvious of a gay beatdown? Have Pixie walk out with 2 guys hugging each other.

I find it interesting that most (please make note of this qualifier) of the people on this forum who say the kid was gay are gay themselves. No offense, everyone, but it would be a safe assumption to say we would be more apt to "recognize our own," whether it's explicit or otherwise, than the general public. We were the same group of people who were insisting Ultimate Colossus was gay long before he came out on-panel because we picked up on the hints and the innuendos. The same counter-arguments being applied to this particular context are very similar to the naysayers from before ("it hasn't happened on panel, it's not obvious enough, you're reading into it, etc").

I just don't like how it seems they are making a connect between anti-mutant bigotry and anti-gay bigotry...as though you must be both.

There are plenty or real world examples to show that hate isn't limited or specialized. The KKK and the Nazis are examples of groups who have hated multiple groups (ethnic or sexual or otherwise) simultaneously. I don't think it's much of a stretch to see anti-gay and anti-mutant as connected sentiments.

[Justin K.]

I find it interesting that most (please make note of this qualifier) of the people on this forum who say the kid was gay are gay themselves.

I'm not gay though :frown:

[Anna]

i hope that Vincente and Switch are also unrevealed members of the Hellfire Cult.

LOL. I totally agree. Throw in Cordelia and Mondo and you have my full support.

Skien too.

[XaviersMisprint]

hey.. speaking of magical characters like tarot.... wouldn't it be interesting if the red queen WAS tarot? that makes a lot of sense, i think....

or it could make sense given more context and background information. empath used to abuse tarot and make her fall in love with him just to get back at her all the time and feel powerful. what if she is running the show now? and she's the dominant one?

i hope so :(. plus, she has ties to emma and the hellfire club, is alive, and has red hair.

PLEASE BE TAROT. has anyone brought up this possibility yet?

[eurazn]

I'm not gay though :frown:

I'm really hoping you said that to be funny (lol!), but JUST in case, I'm going to have to quote myself in response to this and add more than just italics (as I did in the original post) to emphasize my point :biggrin:

I find it interesting that most (please make note of this qualifier) of the people on this forum who say the kid was gay are gay themselves.

[pariah-1972]

Not to be rude, but the guy was pretty hella gay. It's pretty obvious.

Now, I can understand the Iceman fans who will be in denial about his gayness forevermore (I can't understand WHY they would be in denial, except that they can't deal with their faves being gay....)

But I just can't see all the fuss trying to deny or divert the pretty obvious intention of this six panel throw-away character (albeit with pretty important developments surrounding him) to be pretty, really, honestly, unbelieveably hella gay.

Can't we all just accept that he is or at least is heavily implied to be and move on from it?

--DazzNot to beat a dead horse but besides Northstar having a crush on Bobby what "hints" have been dropped that would make anyone think he's gay?
I don't know if I'm in denial about the whole thing since my comics gaydar is usually shite as hell.
But it would make me slightly uncomfortable since he has become so relate-able to me lately but if he were to "come out" ( which i seriously don't think is gonna happen) i could deal with it if it was well written and plausible.

[pariah-1972]

I'll just say if I never visited these boards and heard the insider info rumors about the original phantom script...I never would have made the connection that the guy was supposed to be gay. So in the least, I'll say it was never meant to be obvious that he was supposed to be gay. Want to make it obvious of a gay beatdown? Have Pixie walk out with 2 guys hugging each other.

I just don't like how it seems they are making a connect between anti-mutant bigotry and anti-gay bigotry...as though you must be both.

Anyway...I think the Red Queen is controlling Empath. I HOPE she si controllig Empath.
Because if she isn't...I find the whole S&M implied scene totally tasteless. It introduces nothing besides how kinky these villains are.
I already had about 2-3 full pages of "bedtalk" between Cyclops and a naked Emma.
They were in bed together in 500. I am not adverse to anything sexual in comics, but a pointless S&M scene would be too much for me in X-comics. I don't read X-Men for arousal...I'm with you this feels too much like a bad porn comic.
I don't have any issues with sex and nudity in a comic if handled tastefully but this was so far past taste it's unbelievable.
i don't like being hit over the head crudely with anything but that seems to be all the writers on this book know how to do with this constant " look how liberal and eco friendly we are" and then "look how nice and shiny our new expensive place is" and then " Look at my expensive new car that i got and all its bells and whistles" i could go on and on but you get my point.

Mr X- axis makes my point a little bit better .
http://www.thexaxis.com/capsules/24Aug08.htm

[Hakael]

Not to beat a dead horse but besides Northstar having a crush on Bobby what "hints" have been dropped that would make anyone think he's gay?
I don't know if I'm in denial about the whole thing since my comics gaydar is usually shite as hell.
But it would make me slightly uncomfortable since he has become so relate-able to me lately but if he were to "come out" ( which i seriously don't think is gonna happen) i could deal with it if it was well written and plausible.

I don't think I'd have a problem with Bobby being gay if it wasn't completely fabricated, but it is. The guy just racked another notch on his belt with mystique, and unless she was rocking an appendage under her... um... loincloth? well, unless that was the case, it counts as points in the straight Iceman column.

and don't give me "gays in the closet have straight sex all the time", he clearly had a thing for her...

i will however, cede that he has a bromance with Cannonball.

[pariah-1972]

I don't think I'd have a problem with Bobby being gay if it wasn't completely fabricated, but it is. The guy just racked another notch on his belt with mystique, and unless she was rocking an appendage under her... um... loincloth? well, unless that was the case, it counts as points in the straight Iceman column.

and don't give me "gays in the closet have straight sex all the time", he clearly had a thing for her...

i will however, cede that he has a bromance with Cannonball.Well what is your definition of "fabricated" in a fictional story?


Actually i know gay people who sleep with women which is sort of confusing cause i guess that makes them bi .

What is the definition of "bromance"?

[Hakael]

Well what is your definition of "fabricated" in a fictional story?


Actually i know gay people who sleep with women which is sort of confusing cause i guess that makes them bi .

What is the definition of "bromance"?

by fabricated, I mean a lot of the "evidence" people use is circumstancial and not an actual implication by the writers. The biggest line I've heard is that Bobby having a string of bad relationships is evidence he's gay... even though characters in a team book generally don't have long term relationships, and if they do they're not smooth sailing.

I'll leave bromance for you to google, but it definately describes Sam and Bobby :biggrin:

[LungerTony]

i don't like being hit over the head crudely with anything but that seems to be all the writers on this book know how to do with this constant " look how liberal and eco friendly we are" and then "look how nice and shiny our new expensive place is" and then " Look at my expensive new car that i got and all its bells and whistles" i could go on and on but you get my point.


I get that same exact feeling so far.
In real life I think we all can agree to varying degrees San Fran is a smug as hell city and in true Southpark fashion, love the smell of their own shite.
I never thought that same stereotypical San Fran smugness would resonate in an X-Men comic too. Its almost funny.
Its like as soon as the X-Men moved to San Fran they are smug bastards. Lol.

i will however, cede that he has a bromance with Cannonball.

Lol. Bromance is such a great word. I would agree with that. I'll admit though, I would be really annoyed and unhappy if they made Iceman gay. What does this guy have to do to not be gay to some people. He was making out with Mystique on a cover.

[LungerTony]

Ignore. Double.

[LungerTony]

Triple post. Doh.

[tetragene]

by fabricated, I mean a lot of the "evidence" people use is circumstancial and not an actual implication by the writers. The biggest line I've heard is that Bobby having a string of bad relationships is evidence he's gay... even though characters in a team book generally don't have long term relationships, and if they do they're not smooth sailing.

Meh, if people can "convince" themselves Pixie's friend was trying to get in her pants even though there wasn't a sliver of hinting at it and just because he wasn't talking about loving cock--then I can buy people convincing themselves Iceman is gay for those reasons, lol.

don't agree with either, by the way--but just sayin'

[pariah-1972]

I get that same exact feeling so far.
In real life I think we all can agree to varying degrees San Fran is a smug as hell city and in true Southpark fashion, love the smell of their own shite.
I never thought that same stereotypical San Fran smugness would resonate in an X-Men comic too. Its almost funny.
Its like as soon as the X-Men moved to San Fran they are smug bastards. Lol.



Lol. Bromance is such a great word. I would agree with that. I'll admit though, I would be really annoyed and unhappy if they made Iceman gay. What does this guy have to do to not be gay to some people. He was making out with Mystique on a cover.I've never been to San Fran so i didn't know they were smug :confused: maybe the writers are trying to say that San Frans smugness has worn off on them?
Nah that would be too deep.

I don't really get the feeling that the writers have actually been to San Fran (although surely they have visited?) cause they keep bringing up all these cliches about it that makes me feel very distant from believing in the credibility of the writers.

I'm hoping the writers will settle down and start getting back to being more honest with the story cause two issues in and i'm really really not liking this at all and i would feel so lost if i had to drop another X-issue.

Otherwise i think they should just bring Claremont in cause i can't imagine that he could do this bad.


Sorry if i'm being too pessimistic but i don't get any good feelings for this book right now.

[tetragene]

I don't really get the feeling that the writers have actually been to San Fran (although surely they have visited?) cause they keep bringing up all these cliches about it that makes me feel very distant from believing in the credibility of the writers.

I thought one of them (Brubaker?) was either currently or orginally from San Francisco? :confused:

Otherwise i think they should just bring Claremont in cause i can't imagine that he could do this bad.

he can do worse, actually. See New Excalibur, Die By The Sword & New Exiles for undeniable proof

[pariah-1972]

I thought one of them (Brubaker?) was either currently or orginally from San Francisco? :confused:



he can do worse, actually. See New Excalibur, Die By The Sword & New Exiles for undeniable proofI don't know where Bru is from.

And yes i did read all those and they were crap but nowhere near as bad as this.

[darknessatnoon]

I've never been to San Fran so i didn't know they were smug :confused: maybe the writers are trying to say that San Frans smugness has worn off on them?
Nah that would be too deep.

I don't really get the feeling that the writers have actually been to San Fran (although surely they have visited?) cause they keep bringing up all these cliches about it that makes me feel very distant from believing in the credibility of the writers.

Actually, next issue Beast is going to complain that there's not enough Rice-A-Roni at the base and then he's going to take a trolley to find some.


Otherwise i think they should just bring Claremont in cause i can't imagine that he could do this bad.

You really can't? If not, then I am sure I can recommend some lovely readings for you.

[nikbackm]

You really can't? If not, then I am sure I can recommend some lovely readings for you.

Even if we exclude "New Excalibur", "Die By The Sword" and "New Exiles"?

[frog]

I think Beast would hit Ghirardelli Square - that's what I would do!

[timbox]

I hope they visit Fisherman's Wharf.

[darknessatnoon]

Even if we exclude "New Excalibur", "Die By The Sword" and "New Exiles"?

lol, yeah. Even if all those were excluded, I could still dredge up some incredible garbage by him.

[AcesX1X]

Anyway...I think the Red Queen is controlling Empath. I HOPE she si controllig Empath.
Because if she isn't...I find the whole S&M implied scene totally tasteless. It introduces nothing besides how kinky these villains are. I am not adverse to anything sexual in comics, but a pointless S&M scene would be too much for me in X-comics. I don't read X-Men for arousal...

You haven't really taken the time to grasp the concept of how an empath's powers work, have you?

>>resisting urge to act like KiplingKat does when Magneto is mentioned<<

[Swashbuckler]

I hope they visit Fisherman's Wharf.

Perhaps they will, and more water based mutants can be involved.

I would love to see the X-Men visit Haight-Ashbury. I can picture Armor now, running around on Hippie Hill and wishing she has been a part of the previous arc. Actually, what will really happen is Iceman and Hepzibah will find some leftover joints in their pockets from their time with Martinique and they'll go chill out together. She'll make him realize his true feelings for Cannonball and he'll make her a snowcone.

[eurazn]

i don't like being hit over the head crudely with anything but that seems to be all the writers on this book know how to do with this constant " look how liberal and eco friendly we are" and then "look how nice and shiny our new expensive place is" and then " Look at my expensive new car that i got and all its bells and whistles" i could go on and on but you get my point.

I get that same exact feeling so far.
In real life I think we all can agree to varying degrees San Fran is a smug as hell city and in true Southpark fashion, love the smell of their own shite.
I never thought that same stereotypical San Fran smugness would resonate in an X-Men comic too. Its almost funny.
Its like as soon as the X-Men moved to San Fran they are smug bastards. Lol.


Your two descriptions sum up LA's mindset rather than SF's. In fact, seeing the oversexed Scemma scenes, fancy cars, materialism and Scott/Angel's tussled hair made me think of Beverly Hills (or even Orange County) much more so than SF.

I'm in SF a lot for work. Trust me, SF isn't half as smug as LA is and SF is all about hipsters and emos these days than it is "bells and whistles."

[Jack Flash]

I get that same exact feeling so far.
In real life I think we all can agree to varying degrees San Fran is a smug as hell city and in true Southpark fashion, love the smell of their own shite.




I don't think we can all agree. In fact I think it's a dumb statement. Stereotypes suck.

[worstblogever]

Perhaps they will, and more water based mutants can be involved.

I would love to see the X-Men visit Haight-Ashbury. I can picture Armor now, running around on Hippie Hill and wishing she has been a part of the previous arc. Actually, what will really happen is Iceman and Hepzibah will find some leftover joints in their pockets from their time with Martinique and they'll go chill out together. She'll make him realize his true feelings for Cannonball and he'll make her a snowcone.

A purple flavored snowcone? He uses that line on all the girls.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I'm in SF a lot for work. Trust me, SF isn't half as smug as LA is and SF is all about hipsters and emos these days than it is "bells and whistles."

Oh, it sure is as bad. Those SF "hipsters" are the epitome of smug. Esp. the midwest transplants that try a wee bit too hard.

Not smug in the LA "look at my Fendi bag" way but smug in the "look at my jailbroken iPhone and vintage shirt" way.

[eurazn]

Oh, it sure is as bad. Those SF "hipsters" are the epitome of smug. Esp. the midwest transplants that try a wee bit too hard.

Not smug in the LA "look at my Fendi bag" way but smug in the "look at my jailbroken iPhone and vintage shirt" way.

But if we're examining the X-Men being smug in the context of this comic book's rendition of SF, then we should have see Hellion, Wither, Surge, Ultimate Dazzler, mohawk Storm, and other emo-esque/hipster characters hanging out in the Mission District rather than seeing glamazon Emma and playboy-esque Cyclops having x-sex in Marin County and seeing billionaire Angel racing around in a flashy car.

The "stereotypical smugness" attributed in previous posts to SF by virtue of the X-Men's portrayal in this issue isn't accurate. :biggrin:

[Pixie_Solanas]

But if we're examining the X-Men being smug in the context of this comic book's rendition of SF, then we should have see Hellion, Wither, Surge, Ultimate Dazzler, mohawk Storm, and other emo-esque/hipster characters hanging out in the Mission District rather than seeing glamazon Emma and playboy-esque Cyclops having x-sex in Marin County and seeing billionaire Angel racing around in a flashy car.

The "stereotypical smugness" attributed in previous posts to SF by virtue of the X-Men's portrayal in this issue isn't accurate. :biggrin:

Anything is better than seeing Marin County sex.

[Dazzler]

Not to beat a dead horse but besides Northstar having a crush on Bobby what "hints" have been dropped that would make anyone think he's gay?
I don't know if I'm in denial about the whole thing since my comics gaydar is usually shite as hell.
But it would make me slightly uncomfortable since he has become so relate-able to me lately but if he were to "come out" ( which i seriously don't think is gonna happen) i could deal with it if it was well written and plausible.
Sorry, but I'm just a little dumbfounded at the discomfort at the possibility of Iceman being gay because you relate to him. You could still relate to him, if you chose to not focus on where he puts his pee-pee.

I relate incredibly well to Wolfsbane and Nightcrawler, but I'm not freaked out or discomfited because of the former's va-jay-jay, or the latter's love of it.

I get that same exact feeling so far.
In real life I think we all can agree to varying degrees San Fran is a smug as hell city and in true Southpark fashion, love the smell of their own shite.
I never thought that same stereotypical San Fran smugness would resonate in an X-Men comic too. Its almost funny.
Its like as soon as the X-Men moved to San Fran they are smug bastards. Lol.


I, for the record, don't agree with you at all. To any degree.




I don't really get the feeling that the writers have actually been to San Fran (although surely they have visited?) cause they keep bringing up all these cliches about it that makes me feel very distant from believing in the credibility of the writers.
.

It's actually not that far off the mark, in my opinion. Sure, it's taken a little to the extreme....but I find that the general attitude here is pretty eco-conscious and what the outside world would consider "uppity". I consider it aware. *shrug*

Also, Axel Alonso, the editor is a native San Franciscan. He visited a comic store here recently and has been consulting the writers on San Francisco, so take that however you will.

--Dazz

[Dazzler]

double trouble.

[Rachel Grey]

double trouble.

Prepare for trouble, and make it double.

[pariah-1972]

Sorry, but I'm just a little dumbfounded at the discomfort at the possibility of Iceman being gay because you relate to him. You could still relate to him, if you chose to not focus on where he puts his pee-pee.

I relate incredibly well to Wolfsbane and Nightcrawler, but I'm not freaked out or discomfited because of the former's va-jay-jay, or the latter's love of it.



I, for the record, don't agree with you at all. To any degree.




It's actually not that far off the mark, in my opinion. Sure, it's taken a little to the extreme....but I find that the general attitude here is pretty eco-conscious and what the outside world would consider "uppity". I consider it aware. *shrug*

Also, Axel Alonso, the editor is a native San Franciscan. He visited a comic store here recently and has been consulting the writers on San Francisco, so take that however you will.

--DazzIt's really hard to explain to why turning Iceman gay would make me feel weird, i don't have problems with gay people whatsoever.
but considering all the homophobia that has been thrown my way all my life i don't need a comic book reinforcing that idea.

I don't have a problem with anyone being eco- friendly but the way they are constantly bragging about it does not make it tolerable to most people.

Just Because Axel lives there means that he has any say so on what is wrote in the book.
especially with the inconsistencies of Pixie being able to walk all the way from Oakland to the Marina where they are staying while being severily injured and unable to use her powers.

I remember an issue of Dazzler where she went to Tulsa and the artist seemed to capture the look of downtown quite nice and there wasn't any stereotypes that i remember reading at all even Tulsa is filled with idiotic toothless rednecks.

And i don't think any of the creative team were from here or even lived here.

[Dazzler]

Prepare for trouble, and make it double.

I better bring back up! I'm ready! :tongue:

It's really hard to explain to why turning Iceman gay would make me feel weird, i don't have problems with gay people whatsoever.
but considering all the homophobia that has been thrown my way all my life i don't need a comic book reinforcing that idea.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. You don't need a comic book reinforcing what idea? I'm a little lost here, although I will say this: You feel how you feel, but I'd ask you to think about why you feel that way.

I don't have a problem with anyone being eco- friendly but the way they are constantly bragging about it does not make it tolerable to most people.
I don't see why people wouldn't tolerate it. It's just an extension of them already bragging about their Shi'ar technology and big mansion in Westchester. Now, they're bragging about being the Green Superheroes. Which, frankly, I think is pretty great. It's now hi-tech to be Green, plus it's for reals good for the planet. If people find it intolerable that they brag about being eco-friendly, but could handle them constantly bragging about having holographic projectors and a Blackbird jet on hand, I'd find that kind of weird.

Just Because Axel lives there means that he has any say so on what is wrote in the book.
especially with the inconsistencies of Pixie being able to walk all the way from Oakland to the Marina where they are staying while being severily injured and unable to use her powers.
I don't question the Pixie thing, honestly. I've read bigger and weirder inconsistencies in comics than how she got to Marin from Oakland. Like, for instance, how Wolverine could be in 2,304 places a month on three different teams. I just go with the flow. I've seen some weird-ass and brokedown people on the BART, though, so it's not totally out of the blue that she could get home somehow. WHo knows? Is it really that important to the story?

I remember an issue of Dazzler where she went to Tulsa and the artist seemed to capture the look of downtown quite nice and there wasn't any stereotypes that i remember reading at all even Tulsa is filled with idiotic toothless rednecks.

And i don't think any of the creative team were from here or even lived here.

Good ole Frank Springer. The Man who gave us Barb Spooner's lazy eye for posterity. :)

Except for the Golden Gate Bridge seemingly being able to move to insinuate itself into every shot in any comic book set in San Francisco, as well as the Buffaloes meandering aimlessly in the Japanese Tea Garden in Golden Gate Park in Astonishing, I think pretty much every artist that's worked on an X-book set in SF has done a pretty commendable job. Plus, I'll admit, I love that they're here in the City. It's neat!

--Dazz

[pariah-1972]

Well the main reason i relate to Iceman is his really shitty luck with women which would probably go out the door if he were gay.

[LungerTony]

It's actually not that far off the mark, in my opinion. Sure, it's taken a little to the extreme....but I find that the general attitude here is pretty eco-conscious and what the outside world would consider "uppity". I consider it aware. *shrug*


You probably find nothing smug about that either.

I don't see why people wouldn't tolerate it. It's just an extension of them already bragging about their Shi'ar technology and big mansion in Westchester. Now, they're bragging about being the Green Superheroes. Which, frankly, I think is pretty great. It's now hi-tech to be Green, plus it's for reals good for the planet. If people find it intolerable that they brag about being eco-friendly, but could handle them constantly bragging about having holographic projectors and a Blackbird jet on hand, I'd find that kind of weird.

Do you find it wierd that you get gitty about the X-Men "green" technology, but you don't get gitty about their Shiar or jet tech?

It's kind of the same reason some people find it annoying and overbearing how the X-Men constantly show us how green they are, but not feel that way about their blackbird or hologram tech.

You haven't really taken the time to grasp the concept of how an empath's powers work, have you?

I never heard of the character before the issue. In the comic, it demonstrated he had mind/persuasion type of powers. If by not understanding how the Red Queen's S&M contributed to the guy's powers, I am guilty of "not taking the time to grasp" the character...I can say is a fat whatever. I read comics once. I reread a page if it is not clear, and I haven't been reading X-Men for 10 years and am familiar with every villian who crawls out.

[Dazzler]

You probably find nothing smug about that either.
If you find it smug, then it's not really my problem. It's yours.

Now, that's smug. I own that.



Do you find it wierd that you get gitty about the X-Men "green" technology, but you don't get gitty about their Shiar or jet tech?

It's kind of the same reason some people find it annoying and overbearing how the X-Men constantly show us how green they are, but not feel that way about their blackbird or hologram tech.

I don't get as "gitty" about the Shi'ar technology because I don't have a real frame of reference for it, because it's so far removed from reality. I think it's neat, sure, but I get more excited that the X-Men are taking real world consciousness and applying it to their operation.

You haven't been reading X-men long, have you? The X-Men are always, and have always, been pretty jazzed to show off their technology. This is just a different version of the same thing. Substitute green tech for Shi'ar, and it's the same thing. I think it's just funny that the idea of the X-Men moving towards a more green operation has people p.o.'d. Why is that? It can't be just because they mention it a couple of times...it's got to be something else.

--Dazz

[pariah-1972]

If you find it smug, then it's not really my problem. It's yours.

Now, that's smug. I own that.





I don't get as "gitty" about the Shi'ar technology because I don't have a real frame of reference for it, because it's so far removed from reality. I think it's neat, sure, but I get more excited that the X-Men are taking real world consciousness and applying it to their operation.

You haven't been reading X-men long, have you? The X-Men are always, and have always, been pretty jazzed to show off their technology. This is just a different version of the same thing. Substitute green tech for Shi'ar, and it's the same thing. I think it's just funny that the idea of the X-Men moving towards a more green operation has people p.o.'d. Why is that? It can't be just because they mention it a couple of times...it's got to be something else.

--DazzYou seem to be missing the point a wee bit .. i don't think anyone minds that the x-men are going green but they keep talking about it and talking about it becomes annoying as hell and they have never bragged that much about anything else they have.

It's mostly the writers fault cause they have to knock you over the head with everything on this book i mean Cyclops said a "baby needs a crib" like three times it was making me wonder if he is starting to lose it.

[Dazzler]

You seem to be missing the point a wee bit .. i don't think anyone minds that the x-men are going green but they keep talking about it and talking about it becomes annoying as hell and they have never bragged that much about anything else they have.
No, I got that. The truth is, though, that they HAVE bragged this much about other things in the past. "Danger Grotto," anyone?

The constant reiteration can be annoying, yes, but it's not as if they're talking about the same piece of technology over and over. It's different things (the cars, the complex, etc.). This being such a grand departure from where they've been, I'd say it's kind of needed to show what they're doing and how they did it.

It's mostly the writers fault cause they have to knock you over the head with everything on this book i mean Cyclops said a "baby needs a crib" like three times it was making me wonder if he is starting to lose it.
I think that was the point, that you were supposed to wonder if he was starting to lose it. The whole issue was pretty much centered around Cyclops being so tightly wound and how he was sort of at a breaking point.

--Dazz

[pariah-1972]

No, I got that. The truth is, though, that they HAVE bragged this much about other things in the past. "Danger Grotto," anyone?

The constant reiteration can be annoying, yes, but it's not as if they're talking about the same piece of technology over and over. It's different things (the cars, the complex, etc.). This being such a grand departure from where they've been, I'd say it's kind of needed to show what they're doing and how they did it.


I think that was the point, that you were supposed to wonder if he was starting to lose it. The whole issue was pretty much centered around Cyclops being so tightly wound and how he was sort of at a breaking point.

--DazzDanger Grotto? not sure what you are talking about there Dazz...

See with the crappy writing i can't tell if Cyclops is losing it or if the writers just feel the need to over explain and over emphasize everything.

And i'm still not sold on "Cyclops losing it" just yet cause he seems pretty sane in most other parts of the book except that one.

[Dazzler]

Danger Grotto? not sure what you are talking about there Dazz...
From Generation X. It was the new development as an organic training environment. Basically, a huge greenhouse that the Gen Xers could fight in.
But for a while there, they mentioned it every five seconds. Every five seconds.

See with the crappy writing i can't tell if Cyclops is losing it or if the writers just feel the need to over explain and over emphasize everything.
LOL! I have the same problem sometimes. In this instance, though, I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be having some psychological issues over the baby and Cable.

Also, I don't feel that he was as relaxed and happy-go-lucky as he had presented himself to his teammates, judging by the narration versus the dialogue. I thought he was pretty tense.
And i'm still not sold on "Cyclops losing it" just yet cause he seems pretty sane in most other parts of the book except that one.

I just took it as he's getting weird over his son, Cable, and the baby and what that means and how important it is, and whether or not it's jean or whatever, blah blah blah. I could be totally wrong, but whatever it meant, I'm pretty sure by the scene as presented and by Emma's reaction that it's something psychological happening to him.

--Dazz

[nikbackm]

It's mostly the writers fault cause they have to knock you over the head with everything on this book i mean Cyclops said a "baby needs a crib" like three times it was making me wonder if he is starting to lose it.

He did not actually say "a baby needs a crib" three times. It went like this:

- "... They are coming back and the baby will need a room."
- "A baby needs a room, Emma. A baby needs a crib."

He only said it once in my count. "baby" and "room" was said two times, but the first time was about the MC baby in particular needing a room and the second about a baby in general needing a room.

[pariah-1972]

From Generation X. It was the new development as an organic training environment. Basically, a huge greenhouse that the Gen Xers could fight in.
But for a while there, they mentioned it every five seconds. Every five seconds.


LOL! I have the same problem sometimes. In this instance, though, I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be having some psychological issues over the baby and Cable.

Also, I don't feel that he was as relaxed and happy-go-lucky as he had presented himself to his teammates, judging by the narration versus the dialogue. I thought he was pretty tense.


I just took it as he's getting weird over his son, Cable, and the baby and what that means and how important it is, and whether or not it's jean or whatever, blah blah blah. I could be totally wrong, but whatever it meant, I'm pretty sure by the scene as presented and by Emma's reaction that it's something psychological happening to him.

--DazzHmmm i do remember them talking about the danger grotto a bit but i never found it annoying.
You know you could be completely right on about Cyclops and his issues so i guess we will have to wait and see?

I wonder how this is going to affect everything if Cyke does "lose it"

[Dazzler]

Hmmm i do remember them talking about the danger grotto a bit but i never found it annoying.
Maybe it was just me.
Also, though, the first several issues debuting Cerebra, it was mentioned quite a bit. More than the Green aspects of the new base, I'd wager. I think it comes with any introduction of a new element to the setting and story. It's mentioned heavily for a while, and then will blend into the scenery once it's become familiar.



You know you could be completely right on about Cyclops and his issues so i guess we will have to wait and see?

I wonder how this is going to affect everything if Cyke does "lose it"

Or I could be so wrong, i'm shooting the moon. You 're right, we'll just have to wait and see. :)

--Dazz

[nikbackm]

Something better be up with Cyclops and his baby issues now that they have showed that crib and him obsessing over it in two separate titles already. :smile:

[Dazzler]

Something better be up with Cyclops and his baby issues now that they have showed that crib and him obsessing over it in two separate titles already. :smile:

Really? What was the other title?

That's a lot of panel time for an IKEA crib.

--Dazz

[pariah-1972]

Really? What was the other title?

That's a lot of panel time for an IKEA crib.

--DazzThe last issue of Cable i think.

[nikbackm]

The last issue of Cable i think.

Yep, and he had managed to assemble it by that time too. :smile:

[HotWire]

I fucking sick seeing s€x scenes of emma frost
with jean we see nothing
now because have a "miracle" boy in his arms cyke want to be a daddy again
what happened when jean a rachel they raising nathan.
I m very angry with the writers. I she is pregnant please abort
I want to see emma crying in pain , paying her sins with blood

[LungerTony]

I fucking sick seeing s€x scenes of emma frost
with jean we see nothing
now because have a "miracle" boy in his arms cyke want to be a daddy again
what happened when jean a rachel they raising nathan.
I m very angry with the writers. I she is pregnant please abort
I want to see emma crying in pain , paying her sins with blood

Lol. I getting a bit tired of a Cyke/Emma bed scene each comic too, but I don't want Emma to have an abortion and go through a type of bloody redemptive misery.
But that might be because I don't care about Jean Grey and want her to stay dead thought oo.

[Anodyne]

That wasn't Empath. It was some other guy. Since when would Empath be sitting in a volcano using his powers of empathy?

Afterwards, Empath tranquilized Magma.

No, the Empath that rescued Magma from costa rica or w/e after she saw some random mutant die in lava.
It was a young man Magma had just met, who had powers similar to hers. They were frolicking together in the molten lava, having a wonderful time, when M-Day struck. He instantly lost his powers and was burned to death before her horrified eyes.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Finally caught up on about a month of x-books and I gotta say...

Issue was surprisingly... good.

[Brett P]

Finally caught up on about a month of x-books and I gotta say...

Issue was surprisingly... good.

Same. I read this issue 2 days ago and I liked it alot more than I was expecting too. Say what you like about Land, a few dodgy panels aside I can't remember the last time Uncanny X-Men looked this good and the dialogue/story/character voices all get the thumbs up from me!

[Waterlily]

You seem to be missing the point a wee bit .. i don't think anyone minds that the x-men are going green but they keep talking about it and talking about it becomes annoying as hell and they have never bragged that much about anything else they have.

It's mostly the writers fault cause they have to knock you over the head with everything on this book i mean Cyclops said a "baby needs a crib" like three times it was making me wonder if he is starting to lose it.

It's nice that the X-Men are being aware of environmental issues and all, but I'd rather they cut down on the greeniness thing and gave characters more time to interact. Without sounding like a commercial.

From Generation X. It was the new development as an organic training environment. Basically, a huge greenhouse that the Gen Xers could fight in.
But for a while there, they mentioned it every five seconds. Every five seconds.

--Dazz

You're right. Thinking back on it, they did go on and on about that Grotto...

Finally caught up on about a month of x-books and I gotta say...

Issue was surprisingly... good.

I thought it was alright, though Land's art is so cheesy I feel like I could eat it on a ham sandwich.

[timbox]

I thought it was alright, though Land's art is so cheesy I feel like I could eat it on a ham sandwich.

LOL! Perfect description.

[First Appearance]

I thought the whole thing was a bit cheesy.

The best written part of the story was the Pixie smack down, not that I particularly enjoy the beating of fairies, mutant or otherwise.

I certainly enjoy levity and to an extent its sorely needed in the books, but it felt a bit too much like Saved by the Bell or some other asinine sitcom. The X-Men seem like giddy, bougy bitches and its harder to feel for their plight this way.

And I thought they were already too upscale living in a mansion in New York...

[ExodusCloak]

The best written part of the story was the Pixie smack down, not that I particularly enjoy the beating of fairies, mutant or otherwise.

I don't believe in fairies. *Waits for crashing sound*