CBR: X-POSITION: First Class

[CBR News]

Jeff Parker and Fred Van Lente swing by X-POSITION to discuss Marvel's “First
Class” books, respond to Robert Kirkman’s criticism of the Marvel Adventures
line, and share some remarks about each others' mommas.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17769).

[J. Robb]

Wolverine in a Flames jersey? BOOOO!

[Beast]

Kirkman's crazy. And after his run on Ultimate X-Men, this was obvious.

The Marvel Adventures line doesn't talk down to kids. They're just fun old school comics.

[Beast]

Well, there's a cover for X-Men: First Class #17. That indicates it's safe.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/news/x-position/081908/XMenFC-issue17-D-final-2.jpg

[Beast]

2) Will you guys ever tackle past “major” events in these “First Class” books? For example, would you take an event like “Onslaught” or the first appearance of Apocalypse and give it a new perspective (if you were writing about that time frame)?

Jeff, will you always be staying in these early years in “First Class?” Do you think you’ll ever reach the period when Beast gets fuzzy or Warren becomes Archangel?

Jeff Parker: Npeters, funny you should ask that. Very funny. Very, very funny. Okay, maybe it’s not that funny, but developments are coming very soon that you’ve touched upon here.

Sounds like a bit of serendipity, which is something Frederico was pondering too.
Parker's response gives me pause though. I wonder if we're going to see X-Men: First Class tell stories of the O5 from all eras. Something of an anthology book. We could see them in the 05 era, the X-Factor era. And maybe even Beast, Iceman, and Warren during the Defenders Era. It would be pretty fun, IMHO.

[jmc247]

Parker's response gives me pause though. I wonder if we're going to see X-Men: First Class tell stories of the O5 from all eras. Something of an anthology book. We could see them in the 05 era, the X-Factor era. And maybe even Beast, Iceman, and Warren during the Defenders Era. It would be pretty fun, in my opinion.

They might just allow the stories to move up to Hidden Years territory.

[Beast]

They might just allow the stories to move up to Hidden Years territory.
The problem with Hidden Years is the timeline is a bit messy.

And the question mentions furry Beast and Archangel. Which would indicate X-Factor at least.

[Beast]

I think that's going to be the plan. X-Factor: First Class sounds like a winner.

Especially when the 'First Class' can refer to Rory, Boom Boom, Leech, and Artie.

[Joe Franklin]

Well, there's a cover for X-Men: First Class #17. That indicates it's safe.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/news/x-position/081908/XMenFC-issue17-D-final-2.jpg


:eek: Is Pat Scherberger going to be the regular artist on X-Men Firstclass?

If he is, then I am going to start buying it.

[Beast]

:eek: Is Pat Scherberger going to be the regular artist on X-Men Firstclass?

If he is, then I am going to start buying it.
You should be buying it anyway. *Glowers*

But not sure. Maybe he's one of the new alternating artists or something.

[darknessatnoon]

Someone asked about Mimic in First Class but no one asked about Sage?

You people disappoint me.

[Beast]

Someone asked about Mimic in First Class but no one asked about Sage?

You people disappoint me.
Sage wouldn't fit with the timeline. We'd need X-Men: Year Zero or something.

Besides, given her lack of interaction with the other O5 before the HFC, what would it accomplish.

[ProfeZZor X]

Well, there's a cover for X-Men: First Class #17. That indicates it's safe.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/news/x-position/081908/XMenFC-issue17-D-final-2.jpg

OMFG.... That is going to look so AMAZING when it's inked and colored!!! :eek: :biggrin:

[darknessatnoon]

Sage wouldn't fit with the timeline. We'd need X-Men: Year Zero or something.

Besides, given her lack of interaction with the other O5 characters what would it accomplish.

She did interact with them. Xavier just deleted their memories of her.

[Beast]

She did interact with them. Xavier just deleted their memories of her.
The established story says she didn't.

And do we need yet more mindwipes to make Xavier a bigger bastard?

[darknessatnoon]

The established story says she didn't.

And do we need yet more mindwipes to make Xavier a bigger bastard?

The established story says no such thing. The established story is mum on the topic, but Charles has a history of doing that kind of thing. You of all people should recall what he did to Hank's parents.

[Beast]

The established story says no such thing. The established story is mum on the topic, but Charles has a history of doing that kind of thing. You of all people should recall what he did to Hank's parents.
You mean the mistake that Mike Carey made about Hank's parents?

Xavier never wiped Hank's parent's memories of him. That was a huge mistake on his part.

Stories that come after that the town's mindwipe, especially X-Men Unlimited #10 even indicate that.

[darknessatnoon]

You mean the mistake that Mike Carey made about Hank's parents?

Xavier never wiped Hank's parent's memories of him. That was a huge mistake on his part.

Stories that come after that one, especially X-Men Unlimited #10 even indicate that.

LOL

X-Men Unlimited?

So you're saying that the issue of X-Men Unlimited where Beast falls in love with a mutated cat is *in continuity*?

[Beast]

LOL

X-Men Unlimited?

So you're saying that the issue of X-Men Unlimited where Beast falls in love with a mutated cat is *in continuity*?
I'm referring to the original X-Men: Unlimited. Not the later series.

The original series actually was important to the franchise at the time. X-Men: Unlimited #10, which featured Dark Beast. Pumping Hank's old childhood friends, girlfriends, and Principal for information about him and then killing them. And then going after Hank's parents and finding himself unable to kill them. That's also when Beast was captured and replaced by Dark Beast... stuff that was playing out in the core X-Books at the time. The later X-Men: Unlimited was mostly fluff that was of no real importance.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm referring to the original X-Men: Unlimited. Not the later series.

The original series actually was important to the franchise at the time. X-Men: Unlimited #10, which featured Dark Beast. Pumping Hank's old childhood friends, girlfriends, and Principal for information about him and then killing them. That's also when Beast was captured and replaced by Dark Beast... stuff that was playing out in the core X-Books. The later X-Men: Unlimited was mostly fluff that was of no importance.

Well, I am impressed. Beast has shown remarkable stoicism about his dead friends, girlfriends and Principal since he hasn't once mentioned them since.

[Beast]

Well, I am impressed. Beast has shown remarkable stoicism about his dead friends, girlfriends and Principal since he hasn't once mentioned them since.
It was years ago in the comics.

Characters don't walk around whining endlessly about things that happend years ago.

But it was mentioned during Endangered Species when Beast and Dark Beast reunited.

[darknessatnoon]

It was years ago in the comics.

Characters don't walk around whining endlessly about things that happend years ago.

But it was mentioned during Endangered Species when Beast and Dark Beast reunited.

You mean the writer of Endangered Species, who seems to know all about Hank's dead girlfriends, is the same writer who "messed up" about the parental mind-wipe? Sure. You have a real selective memory when it comes to these things. And, for the record, if someone killed all of my childhood friends, I think I'd mention it more than once.

[Beast]

Anyway... now back to X-Men: First Class.

Really good X-Position this time around. And some great questions from you folks.

Looking forward to that Mimic appearance. And the Halloween Special should be great.

[Flâneur]

You mean the writer of Endangered Species, who seems to know all about Hank's dead girlfriends, is the same writer who "messed up" about the parental mind-wipe? Sure. You have a real selective memory when it comes to these things. And, for the record, if someone killed all of my childhood friends, I think I'd mention it more than once.

And CC has a tendency to reference those kind of angsty moments - Rachel is a fine example of that.

[frog]

No one asked about Sage because you scuttled Sage week!

[frog]

I don't know about the rest of the Marvel Adventure lines but the First Class books do not condescend to the kids.

[Tanjint]

I only read the Jeff Parker and Peter David written Marvel Adventures stuff but it's AMAZINGLY well written.

Honestly, Kirkman is half-right. The Marvel adventures books are better than he's giving credit for (I actually think he would REALLY like PAD and Parker MA Spidey and Avengers stuff,it reminds me of good Kirkman like Invincible to be honest) BUT Marvel only gives it half the effort it needs by putting un-commercial/popular artists on these books.

Not that these artists aren't good, I like them, BUT imagine if you put McNiven or Finch on a marvel adventures book?

I say this because when young kids DO go into comic shops they buy whatever looks coolest...and if you gave them a mcniven or finch book with a beginning middle and end...they may just love comics from then on as opposed to the little kid buying a random issue of civil war cause of the bad ass mcniven spidey(i've seen this happen) and then not knowing what's going on in the middle of this event mini.


Marvel's on the right track by giving these books writers like PAD and parker but they need to go whole hog and give the 'all ages' books like these some of their more flashy artistic muscle so the kids will give these accessible books a chance.

Scherberger would be great...but I only see him on covers.

DiVito was awesome on wolvie:first class....but since she's been replaced...rather early on at that, no?

Once more, not dissing the MA/first class artists...I LIKE them...but they're not the commercial muscle that Marvel should invest into these books if they hope to succesfully bring kids in.

-T

[Beast]

Putting McNiven or Finch on the titles would be a huge mistake.

The current sale numbers don't support such major names like that.

Besides, I'm pretty happy with the artists they are using for it. They're talented and punctual.

[Tanjint]

....They don't sell those numbers because the art names don't match the profile of the writer names. at least in some cases. PAD could move units on some MA spidey if they gave him an artist whose profile or commercial popularity potential that was on the same level as him.


and like I said, I'm also happy with the artists but they're not gonna bring in kids.

All I can think about is what happened with my friend and his little cousin several months ago. He took his like 6 year old cousin to the comic book shop and wanted to get him something. He asked my suggestion for what to get his cousin. I suggested a Marvel Adventures title...not because it would talk down to him, but because it would contain a beginning-middle-end that he wouldn't need continuity knowledge to enjoy. His little cousin had no interest in the MA titles...they didn't look that cool to him. But a random issue of civil war did....cause it had a bad-ass McNiven drawn Spider-Man on it.

The kid has NOT been to a comic shop since. That RANDOM issue of civil war did NOTHING for him. If McNiven drew even the COVER to an MA issue that may have been placed in front of this kid, the kid would have been that much more likely to buy that...get a whole story, enjoy it, and come back for more. Instead he's probably just as convinced as anyone that comics are 'hard to get into'.

Kids start off looking for style not substance. The kids don't know that the bad-ass looking books are less accessible...as is often the case.

Put Finch and McNiven on Ultimatum....what new readers are these BAD-ASS artists gonna get?

Take McNiven OFF civil war...tons of us would still have bought it because it's a huge event in the universe we care about.

to me, your response makes me more convinced than ever that Marvel needs to put more commercial artists on those books. Once more...how ELSE are you gonna get little kids attention? But they see McNiven and such on books with high issue numbers like ASM or even Wolverine and get intimidated, you know?

Yeah it's a risk...but you have to take risks to reap reward.

-T

[Tanjint]

....They don't sell those numbers because the art names don't match the profile of the writer names. at least in some cases. PAD could move units on some MA spidey if they gave him an artist whose profile or commercial popularity potential that was on the same level as him.


and like I said, I'm also happy with the artists but they're not gonna bring in kids.

All I can think about is what happened with my friend and his little cousin several months ago. He took his like 6 year old cousin to the comic book shop and wanted to get him something. He asked my suggestion for what to get his cousin. I suggested a Marvel Adventures title...not because it would talk down to him, but because it would contain a beginning-middle-end that he wouldn't need continuity knowledge to enjoy. His little cousin had no interest in the MA titles...they didn't look that cool to him. But a random issue of civil war did....cause it had a bad-ass McNiven drawn Spider-Man on it.

The kid has NOT been to a comic shop since. That RANDOM issue of civil war did NOTHING for him. If McNiven drew even the COVER to an MA issue that may have been placed in front of this kid, the kid would have been that much more likely to buy that...get a whole story, enjoy it, and come back for more. Instead he's probably just as convinced as anyone that comics are 'hard to get into'.

Kids start off looking for style not substance. The kids don't know that the bad-ass looking books are less accessible...as is often the case.

Put Finch and McNiven on Ultimatum....what new readers are these BAD-ASS artists gonna get?

Take McNiven OFF civil war...tons of us would still have bought it because it's a huge event in the universe we care about.

to me, your response makes me more convinced than ever that Marvel needs to put more commercial artists on those books. Once more...how ELSE are you gonna get little kids attention? But they see McNiven and such on books with high issue numbers like ASM or even Wolverine and get intimidated, you know?

Yeah it's a risk...but you have to take risks to reap reward.

-T

[jarrod]

More classic artists might be a good direction too... guys like Paul Smith, Alan Davis, Rick Leonardi, etc.

[B. Kuwanger]

Haha, DiVito is actually a guy.

Anyway, yeah, I would agree, but only as far as covers go. I never figured they were condescending, but I will admit that part of the reason I don't pick up MA is because of the cover appeal. The other part being of course that it's not in the sandbox. I would look at the MA line as more of entertainment than kid's book, because most kids want to get in to the sandbox.

Which is why I love the First Class books. I'm so disappointed that I didn't get to send in a question because I love them and their writers, XFC and Parker in particular. I would like to see progress eventually, but to me this is the book the O5 needed and never quite got, so I hope he is far from rushing as character and chemistry development are more important than aging or changing here.

Great answers to the Kirkman statement. And as far as art goes I think PS is at least doing the Iceman/Spider-Man/Torch issue.

[Beast]

The lack of a so-called "Huge Artist" on the titles isn't the reason for the sales figures.

Many simply disregard the titles in the same way that Robert Kirkman does. Because they think they're simply kiddy books that are of no real importance. Many of whom have never actually bothered to read them or they would know they arn't what they think.

As for kiddies that are willing to choose flash over substance, that's more a problem with the current ADD generation. Who are so wide-eyed and over-stimulated by all the video games and stupid television that they watch that they can't enjoy some fun quirky art delievered by some of the artists who arn't as huge or as slow as those you mentioned.

Those books you're talking about don't get sales due to the writers or the artists. They get the sales because they're either core books or 616 books featuring A-Listers. The Marvel Adventures line is never going to get the kind of sales that those books are getting. It has nothing to do with who's writing them or who's drawing them. It's just simple common sense. They're a nitch comic book, one that doesn't impact the mainstream Marvel Universe.

Hell, we've seen some fantastic mini-series like Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four with a great well known artist like the late great Mike Wieringo, yet the sales weren't shocking. Which is something of a crying shame. But that's the nature of comics right now. Unless it's a huge event comic, mini-series are going to sell lower than the Core books. It's just the nature of the beast when there's so much out there to read.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Kirkman's crazy. And after his run on Ultimate X-Men, this was obvious.

His Ultimate X-Men was pretty lame, but his work elsewhere has been brilliant. Invincible and The Walking Dead.

I really don't know what went wrong with Ultimate X-Men. The first arc or two were okay. Hell he did Phoenix a lot better than the first Ultimate appearance. But then things started to go downhill fast.

[Tanjint]

The lack of a so-called "Huge Artist" on the titles isn't the reason for the sales figures.



As for kiddies that are willing to choose flash over substance, that's more a problem with the current ADD generation. Who are so wide-eyed and over-stimulated by all the video games and stupid television that they watch that they can't enjoy some fun quirky art delievered by some of the artists who arn't as huge or as slow as those you mentioned.

.


this addresses the causes of why kids are like that but it doesn't change that bigger artists on the books, at least the covers, would likely attract a buy for a young kid.

my friend's little cousin didn't care about the title of the book, if it wasn't in the sandbox or not...he bought the comic with the COOLEST picture of spider-man on it. It's not unreasonable to assume even older people maybe giving comics a shot would do something similar.

I guess we've found the core of the argument. You seem to believe the marvel adventure line is doomed to its audience by design or maybe even a self-defeating concept whereas I think, handled well, it could be a substantial or better success.
-T

[Tanjint]

More classic artists might be a good direction too... guys like Paul Smith, Alan Davis, Rick Leonardi, etc.

that would also be awesome.
like others have said, maybe just the covers.
-T

[MIMIC616]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/XIAYBp05.jpg

I can't wait for the Mimic to reappear! :biggrin:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/KarlKeselMimic.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/xmen_mimic_19_1minlatacove.jpg