Best x-men graphic novels for adults?

[Sharkie7]

I'm looking for intelligent x-men graphic novels or comics with great, charismatic characters, romance, an intricate and clever plot, good writing/dialogue, and so on..

Just post your favorite x-men stories for adults (as in not aimed at kids) and why you like them please!

Thanks a lot!

[Quinnhop]

Astonishing X-Men's first arc is the perfect summation of what you're looking for.

But, better than that, try to get your hands on Morrison's New X-Men run. Brilliant, fun stuff.

[Sharkie7]

Astonishing X-Men's first arc is the perfect summation of what you're looking for.

But, better than that, try to get your hands on Morrison's New X-Men run. Brilliant, fun stuff.

lol you mean astonishing x-men with "gifted" written at the bottom of the cover? Because that's actually why I started this topic. I was reading it about an hour ago, got about 30 pages in, and I thought to myself I could really enjoy a good x-men comic, but this just isn't good enough. Whedon is a pretty mediocre writer in my opinion. I've tried to get into watching Buffy but he's just not that clever, funny, or talented in my opinion. My issues with Astonishing X-men were that 30ish or however many pages in I was, I sitll didn't know who every character was, or what had happened to Jean I'm guessing (the big tragedy Wolverine and Cyclops were alluding to), and how things kept happening really fast and it didn't make sense. Like Wolverine and Cylclops were about to fight outside and then I turn the page and they're all sitting and talking on top of all these islands (looking like giants) - it turned out they were sitting in the danger room and someone made it look like they were above the earth or whatever. But anyway - how do they go from running straight at each other outdoors to just talking?

Also the "voice over" typed thing that was going on with both the voices of the mutant holding up some meeting place and the doctor talking about the mutant cure in the other place - half the time you can't tell which person is saying what lines because they're both being written over pictures of other things that are happening.

But basically everything jumped around too much and without enough explanation, and there wasn't enough character development or meaning to any of it, and the whole "hey, we should be superheros, guys!" talk cyclops gave was completely ridiculous to me. That part specifically makes me think that this is aimed more towards "all ages" or the younger group. I mean that's what Whedon writes. Buffy, Angel, etc etc, he doesn't write mature, serious, meaningful, intelligent stuff. What I'm looking for is something that goes above and beyond all the typical, childish clichés of comic book writing. I'm looking for something thoughtful and meaningful and original and special.

Or idk, just entertaining. Something that really gets at the core of the X-men characters. The relationships. But also the violence, and the meaning to it all, and the mature themes involved, and on and on. Witty clever dialogue is great, as long as it's original, and actually clever.

But thanks for hte recommendation. Keep em coming please!

Oh also, when Cyclops said 'the fantastic four aren't...' (hated on, or whatever it was), that was also ridiculous. A comic where the x-men start talking about the fantastic four is not something i want to read. I mean why don't they just throw bruce wayne and spiderman into the mix. Maybe they can all team up and kidnap Harry Potter

[Grumpy Fox]

Hum… I don't know if you're trolling with that answer (not that I'd say that Whedon's perfect…), but maybe mainstream super-hero comic-books is just not what you're looking for, especially X-Men.
And I don't mean this as a slur to super-heroes either, really.

[timbox]

Legacy is the thinking man's X-book.

[ReaderX]

Morrison's "New X-Men" was a good title with meaningful story arcs and new villains - Cassy Nova, the rogue Mastermold, etc. Frank Quitely's art is more realistic and less heroic, like something you'd find in an issue of Heavy Metal rather than in a Marvel comic. Soldier X was also pretty good, chronicling the point in Cable's life when his T-O virus went into remission and he was wandering the world, largely in 3rd world countries as he tried to find a way to control his unhindered powers.

[MartinRedmond]

Peter Milligan's X-Force and X-Statix. I think you will like it if you don't mind a high character death count. It didn't receive any hype yet it's very good.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hi Sharkie7.

From what you're saying I think you might really like Grant Morrison's New X-Men. It happened a fair few years ago now, and it did kind of peter out in the end. But heck, you'd at least find out what DID happen to jean.

It's a more adult take on the x-men. It does kind of wreck a few things for the future, but it is pretty sound.

Aside from that, in more recent times, pick up any of Mike Carey's X-men run, up to the recent crossover. That was a good less traditional X-Men team (With Rogue, Iceman, Cable, Cannonball, Mystique and a captive Sabretooth). It's a shame it ended really because it was a little darker and more interesting.

It was replaced with Mike Carey's X-Men Legacy - which is still good, but Xavier on his own.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Peter Milligan's X-Force and X-Statix. I think you will like it if you don't mind a high character death count. It didn't receive any hype yet it's very good.

It's not really X-Men though, is it? It Milligan doing something different with characters he created for it.

[MartinRedmond]

Morrison's run makes no sense at all. Especially Magneto's grand master plan. All the characters who hog the spotlight are Grant's character, one of those is Grant Morrison himself. His run was okay, but it's not adult or complicated. It's a huge mess with mature themes thrown in. The X-Men cripple some kids for doing exactly what the X-Men are doing and it's supposed to be a huge moral lesson of some such. It's full of plot holes. Stay away! Stay away!

[rZi]

These are the type of X-Men books i look for too.

Astonishing X-Men #1-24 - this is probably my faviroute run in comic books ever.

Grant Morrison's "New X-Men" (not to be confused with the younger mutants book by the same name)

X-Men: God loves man kills

[Siddon]

I actually think that the first six stories from Ultimate X-men would be more your type of story. The dialouge is more realistic, the plotting is better, there isn't that much continuity. Its a reboot to the series done in "film" style where each arc is it's own stand alone type story.

X-tinction Agenda is another more adult story, its a darker story of Genosha which is a South African type city where Mutants are the servant class and the human have complete control.

X-force A New Beginning very good take on the nature of fame and super heroes

Runaways is my gateway comic to anyone, I think its better then Watchmen.

[KiplingKat]

Unfortunately, I can recommend intelligent x-men graphic novels or comics with great, charismatic characters, an intricate and clever plot, good writing/dialogue...but not romance. To be honest, most of the time when X-Writers try to write romance, it either get overly bogged down in angst (Gambit-Rogue), or just silly (Scott-Emma, Whedon is actually the only writer to make Scott and Emma work ad a fun dysfunctional couple).

But I'm a little confused, because you asked for a intricate and clever plot, and then you complained that Whedon's story was too intricate for you to follow. (Which the "jumps" you were talking about were actually all explained in the comic themselves.)

So...well, what kind of story do you want to read? Do you want to read a straight adventure, a socio-political story, science fiction, mystical adventure, drama, what type of story are you looking for?

[Valjean999]

Someone else mentioned it, but I would go with the "God Loves, Man Kills" graphic novel, as well. Its what cemented my love of the X-Men.

And I know I am in the minority, but I do NOT recommend Grant Morrisons run. In my 25+ years of reading the X-Men, the only time I almost dropped the book is when he was writing it. It was a vile piece of garbage. But thats just me.

[Michael Sean]

I recommend any of Grant Morrison's run on New X-men. It is great stuff and I'm sure you will appreciate it.

Do not listen to this poster:

Morrison's run makes no sense at all. Especially Magneto's grand master plan. All the characters who hog the spotlight are Grant's character, one of those is Grant Morrison himself. His run was okay, but it's not adult or complicated. It's a huge mess with mature themes thrown in. The X-Men cripple some kids for doing exactly what the X-Men are doing and it's supposed to be a huge moral lesson of some such. It's full of plot holes. Stay away! Stay away!

[KJ_81]

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills

[wolvie616]

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills

dang! beat me to it

[The Lucky One]

It was a vile piece of garbage. But thats just me.

I don't think it was a vile piece of garbage; if it was a new team book starring characters I'd never heard of, I might have really liked it. It's just that to me, it wasn't the X-Men, it was a bunch of random new characters who happened to look a bit like the X-Men.

Sharkie, my recommendation would be that you check out X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills. It's about as serious, deep, and philosophical as the X-Men get. If you don't like it, then I would say that the X-Men in general are probably not right for you.

-D

[Agent_Torpor]

Legacy is the thinking man's X-book.

YEAAAAAH! You got the right one baby, uh huh!

[Agent_Torpor]

And I know I am in the minority, but I do NOT recommend Grant Morrisons run. In my 25+ years of reading the X-Men, the only time I almost dropped the book is when he was writing it. It was a vile piece of garbage. But thats just me.

Oh lord. Grant Morrison's run was very well the BEST x-run ever, or at least neck and neck with Claremont's early 80s heyday.

For your convenience, Marvel is releasing "omnibus" editions (i think they're on the second volume right now, released last week) of the complete run, so you don't have to mess with the smaller tpbs. Not bad for a "vile piece of garbage".

[KiplingKat]

Guys, lets not turn this into another debate on Grant Morrison's run.

Just recommend what you recommend.

[wolvie616]

Oh lord. Grant Morrison's run was very well the BEST x-run ever, or at least neck and neck with Claremont's early 80s heyday.

For your convenience, Marvel is releasing "omnibus" editions (i think they're on the second volume right now, released last week) of the complete run, so you don't have to mess with the smaller tpbs. Not bad for a "vile piece of garbage".

i thought it was pretty good, but i hate d planet x

[MartinRedmond]

I recommend any of Grant Morrison's run on New X-men. It is great stuff and I'm sure you will appreciate it.

Do not listen to this poster:

Explain to me Magneto's plan and how it makes sense please? Starting from him being a vegetable cripple in a wheel chair.

[jarrod]

I would kill your mother for an X-Treme X-Men Omnibus.

[Squidboy]

I'd have to say God Loves, Man Kills by Chris Claremont. I didn't finish the trade (I started reading it at long last in the store, but had to leave before I could get far in it), but literally from the first page, you can tell it's not your typical X-Men story. Obviously, I'm gonna have to finish reading the thing before I can give the proper recommendation, but it's probably one of the most popular X-Men Graphic Novels, and even an incomplete read of the book showed me why.

[atomicturtle]

Rob Kirkman's "Jubilee" from '04-'05.

Shut up, it was awesome.









OK, but seriously - any of the X-23/NYX books.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Okay, I have to agree that there is relatively little character development during Whedon's run- it's just too short. His entire run was more like a fantastic, well told story rather than an entire run, like Claremont's or Morrison's. I also did not get much of a feel for the characters, and if a reader were to read it without knowing who these people were I am sure they would be lost.

Since the original poster is looking for character work, I am going to recommend (in addition to God Loves, Man Kills) Chuck Austen's run. I will warn you that a number of the characters act out of their regular character, but as a run their is consistency. The run focuses on relationships (sexual and romantic), in addition to some great humor. I don't recall a particularly deep philosophical element to the run, but one can only read GLMK so many times.

Also, I think you would LOVE PAD's work on X-Factor. It's more of a mature book than it's star-studded parent book.

[Sharkie7]

Unfortunately, I can recommend intelligent x-men graphic novels or comics with great, charismatic characters, an intricate and clever plot, good writing/dialogue...but not romance. To be honest, most of the time when X-Writers try to write romance, it either get overly bogged down in angst (Gambit-Rogue), or just silly (Scott-Emma, Whedon is actually the only writer to make Scott and Emma work ad a fun dysfunctional couple).

But I'm a little confused, because you asked for a intricate and clever plot, and then you complained that Whedon's story was too intricate for you to follow. (Which the "jumps" you were talking about were actually all explained in the comic themselves.)

So...well, what kind of story do you want to read? Do you want to read a straight adventure, a socio-political story, science fiction, mystical adventure, drama, what type of story are you looking for?

Well I dont' consider the unexplained jumps in the story intricate or complex; I just think that's bad writing. By intricate and complex I mean the dialogue, the themes, the relationships should all be intricate and complex. I good example of that is like people who write about "the good guys" and "the bad guys" - that's oversimplifying things. Morality is much more complicated than that. Are people who do bad things necessarily bad people? Many people who do bad things do so because their minds and emotions are warped do to something terrible that happened to them in their pasts that was out of their control. I don't know if that's a good example because I'm looking for more than just moral ambiguity. I don't know. Complex and intricate stories does not mean stupid unexplainable jumps in the plot. THere is nothing intricate about wolverine and cyclops about to fight on one page, and then on the next page they're all sitting down. That just doesn't make sense.

Anyway, some of examples of what complex/intricate means to me. My favorite author is Vladimir Nabokov. He's most famous for writing Lolita. If you've ever read anything by him, you know what I mean by complex and intricate. My favorite television show is Dexter (on showtime). It's very mature themed and complicated. Some of my favorite movies are Brick, 28 days later, American Beauty, Memento,The Usual Suspects, Garden State, X-men, Harry Potters, American History X, The Virgin Suicides...

I'm very interested in the characters, their emotions, good, clever dialogue, real feeling, charismatic characters...

Does that help?

[Sharkie7]

Thanks so much everyone. Again, I've never gotten so much help on another forum so quickly. I will definitely be checking out god loves man kills/loves whatever it was called, as well as reading reviews on the otehrs to see if I'm interested. What could be helpful to me (if you have time) is if some of the people who recommended books and haven't done this already actually write a bit moer about why they liked it and why they think I'd like it, etc etc.

I've found X-men Runaways pretty cheap from another seller on amazon. Does anyone else besides the person who recommended it have an opinion on this one?

THanks again so much :)

[Sharkie7]

Also - I hvea heard that "the uncanny x-men" is good. Specifically, "the uncanny x-men - the dark phoenix saga." Does anyone know anything abotu this? Is it good? Is it just the story from Xmen 3? or is it not?

thanks

[Sharkie7]

And what about days of future past?

[xgeek52]

god loves man kills...the original is in graphic form, but it's included in an updated version in xtreme x-men: god loves man kills...

also check out xtreme x-men: mekanix, featuring kitty pryde...

[justinkos91]

Blood of Apocalypse (X-men) and anything New Excalibur :tongue:

[Sharkie7]

god loves man kills...the original is in graphic form, but it's included in an updated version in xtreme x-men: god loves man kills...

also check out xtreme x-men: mekanix, featuring kitty pryde...

all i can find is this: http://www.amazon.com/X-Treme-X-Men-Mekanix-Marvel-Xtreme/dp/0785111174/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219280747&sr=8-1

is there a cheaper version?

also where can i find the less expensive god loves man kills?

because you're saying that the xtreme x-men: god loves man kills has more than just god loves man kills in it, right? or no?

[xgeek52]

you might be able to find an original publication, which was done in the '80s (i think '82 or '83) though i think it might be tough going...

as for days of the future past, i'm sorry i didn't mention it because it is significant and worth checking out...

[claimtosubclaim]

Complex and intricate stories does not mean stupid unexplainable jumps in the plot. THere is nothing intricate about wolverine and cyclops about to fight on one page, and then on the next page they're all sitting down. That just doesn't make sense.


Logan and Wolverine are talking trash to each other. Beast sees this. Off-panel, he breaks them up before they fight, and we jump cut to him lecturing them. Any kid could understand that, and it's a perfectly normal and universally accepted narrative device in all forms of storytelling. It sounds like you wanted everything spelled out for you.

Also, Cyclops declaring that they need to get back to looking and acting like superheroes is because for years prior to this, they had been dressing in black leather "street" gear and to some extent acting more like a military presence (X-Corps and X-Treme X-Men comes to mind).

If you want something that pretty much everyone considers to be intricate and complex, go read Watchmen. If you liked Brick, you might enjoy the current run of X-Factor.

[Last_Avenger]

lol you mean astonishing x-men with "gifted" written at the bottom of the cover? Because that's actually why I started this topic. I was reading it about an hour ago, got about 30 pages in, and I thought to myself I could really enjoy a good x-men comic, but this just isn't good enough. Whedon is a pretty mediocre writer in my opinion. I've tried to get into watching Buffy but he's just not that clever, funny, or talented in my opinion. My issues with Astonishing X-men were that 30ish or however many pages in I was, I sitll didn't know who every character was, or what had happened to Jean I'm guessing (the big tragedy Wolverine and Cyclops were alluding to), and how things kept happening really fast and it didn't make sense. Like Wolverine and Cylclops were about to fight outside and then I turn the page and they're all sitting and talking on top of all these islands (looking like giants) - it turned out they were sitting in the danger room and someone made it look like they were above the earth or whatever. But anyway - how do they go from running straight at each other outdoors to just talking?

With every comic there is almost always a certain level of continuity that they just don't bother explaining to the reader, Jean's death was one of those things. It was a pretty big thing to happen, and quite honestly it was very recent when the issue came out, its only natural for those two guys, ESPECIALLY them, to fight and then be talking normally again. After all, they've known each other for a long time, and fighting as they were is pretty tame anyways, Wolverine can heal and Cyclops just pushes him back, I'd actually think it would be pretty typical.

[Grumpy Fox]

New Excalibur ??? Is that a joke ?
And the X-Treme X-men follow-up to "God Loves, Man Kills" is really poorly written, with visuals that are less then appealing…
Too bad Alan Davis's run on the original Excalibur has never been collected.

I don't know if and how it's collected, but the Chris Claremont and Paul Smith run (Brood Saga, then the Marauders) is quintessential X-Men for me…

[Knaves]

My couple of cents worth would be the current incarnation of X-Factor up to just before the Messiah Complex tie ins. Others would be the minis Madrox and NYX.

[justinkos91]

New Excalibur ??? Is that a joke ?
And the X-Treme X-men follow-up to "God Loves, Man Kills" is really poorly written, with visuals that are less then appealing…
Too bad Alan Davis's run on the original Excalibur has never been collected.

I don't know if and how it's collected, but the Chris Claremont and Paul Smith run (Brood Saga, then the Marauders) is quintessential X-Men for me…

Yes it was, I wasn't being serious when I suggested my suggestions

[Alex A Sanchez]

...X-men Runaways pretty cheap from another seller on amazon. Does anyone else besides the person who recommended it have an opinion on this one?

Originally it was free, given away for Free Comic Book Day over a year ago. It's a one-shot, not even full length story. Totally not worth it unless you are a Runaways/Skottie Young fan.

Also - I hvea heard that "the uncanny x-men" is good. Specifically, "the uncanny x-men - the dark phoenix saga." Does anyone know anything abotu this? Is it good? Is it just the story from Xmen 3? or is it not?

thanks

I'm actually collecting the reprint issues of the Dark Phoenix Saga, so I haven't read it yet. But it is supposed to be one of the best X-Men stories ever told (it is definitely a milestone event in X-Men history). I imagine it is significantly better than X3

[The Lucky One]

Also - I hvea heard that "the uncanny x-men" is good. Specifically, "the uncanny x-men - the dark phoenix saga." Does anyone know anything abotu this? Is it good? Is it just the story from Xmen 3? or is it not?

Okay, here's the thing, Sharkie- a lot of people here are recommending some very good stuff (and some... not as good stuff), but not all of it is totally new reader accessible. That's by no means a knock on you or your intelligence, it's just that the X-books can be pretty dense in continuity, and even very smart people might throw up their hands in frustration because they don't know the backstories. Case in point: New Mutants #41-45. These five issues (each a standalone story) are excellent, superior comic storytelling at its peak. Just great stuff. They are NOT what I would give to my wife or someone who doesn't read comics regularly, because they feature a spinoff team that most non-fans wouldn't recognize, and because while each can be enjoyed as its own story, they all reference events that have occured earlier in the book's history.

With that in mind, here's the situation. I'm not going to touch on either Morrison's or Whedon's runs. Both were fairly divisive, both have extreme fans and extreme haters, and other people can recommend or steer you away from them as the case may be. However, prior to Morrison's run, there were basically three stories held up as the best of the best X-Men tales, the holy trinity that you would give to anyone who was interested in the books but didn't have much knowledge of them.

One is God Loves, Man Kills. If there is any single X-Men story that requires the very bare minimum of prior knowledge and completely encapsulates what they're all about, it's this one. It stars what many people consider the definitive team of X-Men and can be enjoyed on its own without any backstory more than what you've seen in the movies. X2: X-Men United is very, very loosely based on it, but it definitely stands on its own as its own story. Get it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men:_God_Loves,_Man_Kills

Another is Days of Future Past. This is a 2-part story that originally ran in the main book (Uncanny X-Men #141-142), and is one of the best and best-known examples of a dystopian alternate future in fiction; elements of it were used in the first X-Men movie. The premise is that in a possible future, mutant-killing robots called Sentinels have taken over the world, killing most of Earth's superheroes and confining the few remaining mutants to concentration camps. A last-ditch effort by the surviving X-Men has them send the adult Kate Pryde's mind back in time to present day to inhabit the body of her teenage self. The goal is to prevent the assassination of Senator Robert Kelly, a mutant-hating bigot who is trying to enact the Mutant Registration Act; his assassination is what leads to the Sentinel solution being implemented. You mentioned that issues of morality interest you... the would-be assassin is Mystique and her Brotherhood, who are ostensibly trying to help mutantkind by killing a powerful man who seeks to oppress them, but the X-Men know the eventual outcome will be far worse. This is another pretty standalone story not requiring much prior knowledge.

And finally there's the Dark Phoenix Saga, which originally ran in Uncanny X-Men #129-137. It's by no means the worst of the three (some would say it's the best), it's just that it's the one that brings in the most prior continuity... certain plot elements that lead up to it had been building since UXM #101. But it's still fairly accessible, all of the needed knowledge is recapped effectively. Again, issues of morality and absolute power corrupting absolutely lie at the core of the story- the question is whether horrendous actions perpetrated by someone who was under a debatable level of outside influence can or should be held against them. The X-Men are the protaganists, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the good guys, depending on your point of view. It's an excellent story, very emotional, and by the same writer/artist team as Days of Future Past. I would definitely recommend it, it's just that there are definitely more sci-fi/"space opera" elements to it than the other two. (And yes, the very basic premise for X3 came from this story, but trust me, there are far more differences than similarities.)

I gotta get back to work, but hopefully that helps a bit, Sharkie. Like I said, there have been many other good X-Men stories, but these are three of the most famous and most revered. And for good reason.

-D

[Squidboy]

My couple of cents worth would be the current incarnation of X-Factor up to just before the Messiah Complex tie ins. Others would be the minis Madrox and NYX.

I'd second (at least) the first three arcs of X-Factor, as well as the Madrox mini-series too. I'd have to say that this is where X-Factor at it's best was, which is not to say it's not still great, but when I think of X-Factor, these earlier stories are what immediately come to mind.

[marvell2100]

Well it's not a graphic novel and I don't know if they did a tpb for it but "Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown", written by Walter Simonson and painted by John J. Muth was very good.

I would recommend "God Loves/Man Kills" as well.

[wolvie616]

Also - I hvea heard that "the uncanny x-men" is good. Specifically, "the uncanny x-men - the dark phoenix saga." Does anyone know anything abotu this? Is it good? Is it just the story from Xmen 3? or is it not?

thanks

parts of it are x3 but it is still one of the greatest stories of x men ever told, but not because it is complex, but because it so emotional

same with future past

[sephirothskiller]

They're called "Comic Books" not "Graphic Novels" :P .

[Skappy]

New X-Men by Morrison, definitely.

Whedon/Cassaday's run on Astonishing X-Men.

Also, Collected Age of Apocalypse.

[The Lucky One]

They're called "Comic Books" not "Graphic Novels" :P .

If you want to get really pedantic about it, a comic is a "graphic novel" if the entire thing is published all in one shot, rather than broken up into serialized installments. Road to Perdition, Maus, Batman: The Killing Joke, X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills... those are all graphic novels. Watchmen, Batman: Year One, X-Men: Days of Future Past are not graphic novels.

But frankly, no one cares. The only time it's truly wrong to call them "graphic novels" is if someone is using that as a way to try to sound mature because he feels ashamed to be reading comic books. They're comics. And some comics are graphic novels. But the differentiation is in the format, it has nothing to do with maturity level or how many tits and curse words you include.

-D

[xgeek52]

god loves, man kills was graphic novel...that's what they called it...

there was no animal as tpb when it first came out...

[rage6839]

god loves, man kills was graphic novel...that's what they called it...

there was no animal as tpb when it first came out...

And boy was it graphic. I had a friend in college who was just as much into comics as I was but he was a DC fanatic and Marvel was my favorite. We decided to pick out 2 books for the other to read. I gave him God Loves, Man Kills and The Phoenix Saga and he gave me A Death in the Family and The Killing Joke. He could not get over the what the Phoenix did but the first pages of GL, MK made him a fan

A Death in the Family still ranks in my top 5. Joker is not to be played with, especially when he is laughing.