Differences on how japanese and american authors handle Superpowers

[agc161]

Something that i've been Wondering for a while is the differences between how Superhuman Powers are handled or portrayed in different ways in Anime and American Works like comic books or live action shows. For example,Super speed. While in comic books super speed is portrayed with after-images or speed lines, the same power is portrayed differently in anime, for example two characters(let's call them A and B) are fighting, if A has Super Speed, instead of showing him running up to B to punch him they instead show him "Disappearing" and then reappear behind B Making it look like he "teleported".

Keep in mind this is just one example of how one power is portrayed in two different ways. are there any other examples were one porttrayal of a superpower in anime is different from an american portrayal? also are there any powers or portrayals that are "culture-specific", are there any powers considered "universal"?

if the thread sounds a little confusing i'll try my best to explain again to the best of my ability.

[sun tzu]

Superpowers are also a lot less static in anime. Due to the nature of American comics, and how they maintain their status quo over decades, the abilities of the heroes tend to remain the same. Manga and anime, on the other hand, tends toward a power creep - which doesn't necessarily hurt them, as their stories tend to end somewhere.

[InfiniteCombo]

I'm going to have to agree with the Power Creep theory... Most manga I've come across seem to have their characters building up to a peak point at the end of their story. All the Dragon Ball stories come to mind in regards to this type of story telling.

[agc161]

another thing i've noticed is how a power americans think is lame can be considered awesome and turned into a viable combat option in anime For example:

"Turning towels into Iron"

in america such a power would be laughed at and accorded the same respect we give aquaman(none) while in japan a manga-ka would have figured at least five or six different ways in which it could be used to attack or how the power would grow and become stronger.

[Inkthinker]

This is going to be a manga love-fest, isn't it? Not surprising, since this is the manga/anime forum... but we could try.

The first point (on speed) is an issue of graphic representation, not storytelling, and it's already been explored, dissected and even disseminated into Western art quite a lot over the past decade. If you take a speed-focused character like "The Flash" and actually explore the (ridiculously) long history of the character and his application, I'm pretty sure "teleporting" behind someone through super-speed is the least of the things he's done.

I can't think of any manga or anime that's explored the range of super-powers or superpower scenarios that have been suggested in western comics, mostly because western superhero power comics have been, until recently, the majority focus of popular comics in general. That shit has been squeezed out dry, and even so they keep trying and finding new ones.

And "towels into iron"... just towels? Do they have to be terrycloth, or would a washrag do as well? A power like that has potential in a Rumiko Takahashi comedy, but even a mangaka would probably extend that into "transmute inanimate matter to iron", which is something that's not silly at all, and has almost certainly be done at least once by DC or Marvel in the past 30 years (hell, it's just a variant on the Midas touch).

Any better examples? Like, actual examples, of superpowers in manga that aren't A)psychic 2) energy or strength/endurance-based, or III)alien polymorphic-based? It seems like the great majority of paranormal, superhuman abilities in Asian comics fall into these categories. The rare exceptions seem to be more modern books like Naruto, where Kishimoto introduces essentially superpowered characters with a ninja theme, like Marvel focuses on genetic mutation.

But at that point, we're not talking about the difference between manga and comics, we're talking about the difference between Masashi Kishimoto and everyone else.

I'm not going to play devil's advocate for too long, 'cause I don't much even read superhero comics. But this won't be much of a discussion unless someone takes a counter-point.

[agc161]

Sorry i wasn't trying to turn this into a love fest, i just thought this would make a good theme for a thread, if i honestly annoyed someone with this just let me know. as for the towel thing, that powers from an actual shonen manga i personally like.Without giving to much away, the Character(Sano) Has the power of turning towels into any iron object,I think he only uses bath towels for his attacks.anyway since towels are malleable he could turn them into anything like armor,shields,harpoons or staffs(within reason)and later would gain a new level of power for his abilities.

also as for the teleport thing, i actually thought that's what they were doing until someone pointed out that it really was super-speed the first time i saw it.

again, i wasn't trying to start a contest or anything, i just thought this would make a good conversation topic.

[agc161]

i've got an example but power-wise the share the same powers: Kyoji Kagami and mirror master(A Flash Supervillain)

Kyoji Kagami(Get Backers): A Resident of the Infinite fortress. His special ability is using mirrors as weapons in battle Such as:

Mirror Shards:uses broken mirror pieces to cut and slice oppenents
Multiple images:using dust-like mirror fragments he creates multiple images of himself via light refraction
Diamond Dust:by spreading his"dust mirror" all over, the opponent inhales the dust and gets cut from the inside.

Mirror Master(Flash Supervillain)A petty criminal who uses mirrors to commit crimes and break the laws of physics with powers like:

Mirror Dimension:He can enter any reflective surface and use it to travel anywhere.

Multiple Images:Same effect as the previous entry but different principle involved

Laser pistol:Does exactly what it says

Mirror Trap:Traps a person in the mirror dimension or as a mirror image.

Same powers but different origins involved:Kyoji's powers were natural(As far as i can tell) while Mirror Master had to research and develop his powers. one example of how the same power can be taken in different directions

[Inkthinker]

It's a good topic for conversation... it just helps if we discuss more than "this is how manga does it better".

I really do like what Kishimoto does with superpowers, and at the root level I'm not sure there's much difference between superpowered ninja and superpowered mutants... in either case, you basically just set up an excuse to develop whatever cool power comes to the plot at any given time.

Aside from Naruto, though, I have a hard time thinking of a series that really lets loose with such a wide range of varying paranormal abilities. Most seem to keep it within a certain focus (and there's nothing wrong with that).

[Dark Soul # 7]

Aside from Naruto, though, I have a hard time thinking of a series that really lets loose with such a wide range of varying paranormal abilities. Most seem to keep it within a certain focus (and there's nothing wrong with that).How about One Piece. The powers in that series varies from the more generic to some outright rediculous, but effective, abilities.

Just look at about half of the 11 Supernovas.

I'm trying to come up with examples to see if there's a general difference in how manga and comics display superstrength. But I'm going up with nothing.

[Darth Joker]

A few differences that I've noticed...

Superstrength in western comic books is typically accompanied by bulging "Mr. Universe"-esque muscularity. Even superstrong females tend to have noticable degrees of bulging muscularity, at least vis a vis a more typical female form.

Superstrength in Japanese manga is typically not accompanied by such muscularity - in fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see kids with seemingly normal bodies have varying degrees of superstrength.

Not sure which I perfer - on the one hand, it seems natural for super-strength to include a muscular physique. OTOH, a truly extraordinary/supernatural power probably shouldn't rely on a person's body shape or type, really.


Manga characters use superspeed much more effectively than western comic book characters do - I very rarely see Flash and/or Superman-esque PIS with manga characters when it comes to superspeed use. If the manga character has the power, they use it, and they use it in battle - they curbstomp who they should curbstomp. Giving enemies similiar degrees of superspeed is used instead of having Byakuya, Ichigo et al suddenly forget that they have superspeed...


Generally speaking, I find that powers that need to be "turned on" via transformation or some other sort of activation is more common in manga than in western comic books.


On a plus to the western comic book side, superpowers are generally well-explained and even precisely quantified/qualified (i.e. Class 10, Class 50, etc...) in western comic books, whereas manga tends to leave an awful lot up to guess-work, and/or fans doing their own calculations/estimations. Yes, Vegeta says "It's over 9000!", but I don't recall him explaining what that measurement precisely means. :wink:

[wchua24]

hmmm...that is the first time i thought about that...but your quite right

[ChrisIII]

There's also the fact that they tend to say their powers a lot as they use them, like casting a spell or something like that. I've noticed this in Ranma 1/2, Dragonball, Slayers, even some of the older (and some newer) mecha series where the mecha were more superheroes than weapons.

It's even gotten into some stuff like the Marvel vs. Capcom games, where the Marvel characters yell out their attack just like the other characters.

[MartinRedmond]

I agree that mangas are a bit more creative. But american comics can be as well. I think it's mostly how bad US comics listen to the readers negative backlash at change that keeps US super hero stuff from being creative with powers.

[Black Atom]

I think American comics are plenty creative. I think there's a wider range of ideas for powers in general in American superhero comics and some writers have really explored the myriad ways one can exploit, say, control over weather, gravity or magnetism with really cool results.

The fundamental difference is the approach to powers in general. Except for rare exception on both sides, in manga, "super powers" are often developed or learned abilities or "techniques" which falls in line with the Eastern ideas of chi/ki and martial arts. In American comics, heroes usually get an all encompassing "super power" or a series of them due to altered physiology of some kind. I think this contributes to the difference in the depiction of super-powers.

In manga, characters seem to have very specific learned skills that've been developed through practice/training. For example, a character may be able to punch or kick incredibly hard, but may not necessarily be able to lift very heavy objects. Similarly, a manga character may also be able to punch really fast or dodge between bullets, but may not be able to run at supersonic speeds. The two abilities are different developed skills--having one doesn't guarantee the other. Most American characters have a generic "super strength" or "super speed" power that allows them to perform both skills, usually. Think of it like training for the Olympics. A manga character may have developed his running skill in a way that would allow him excel at the 100m dash, but would probably not help him perform well in a swim meet. An American character usually has a general "super-speed" power, that will allow him to excel at both.

The idea of powers revolving around someone/something that is inherently flimsy or supple having great power (i.e. the paper-throwing in R.O.D.) is a somewhat unique Eastern idea you don't see much of in American comics. That's another principle derived from martial arts. Other aspects of Eastern martial arts, like the usage of pressure points or small, accurate strikes to cause big damage, have migrated into US comics, but such techniques are usually performed by characters who specialize in those arts to begin with.

[Gamiel]

Manga characters use superspeed much more effectively than western comic book characters do - I very rarely see Flash and/or Superman-esque PIS with manga characters when it comes to superspeed use. If the manga character has the power, they use it, and they use it in battle - they curbstomp who they should curbstomp. Giving enemies similiar degrees of superspeed is used instead of having Byakuya, Ichigo et al suddenly forget that they have superspeed...


How mutch 'Flash' have you read? He is very creative when it comes to his power

[lurkerinthedark]

How mutch 'Flash' have you read? He is very creative when it comes to his power

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.

I'd be inclined to say he's right, speedsters in anime tend to use the speed effectively. They may not use it effect the fundamental laws of physics by traveling at superspeed, however they will use it to punch/stab someone 500 times before they can retaliate.

Take a look at all the time flash is threatened by people like captain cold or boomerang, people who should be unconscious be for they can blink, let alone fire a cold gun. Compare to rock lee, who easily beat Sasuke on the first encounter and needed to go up against night invulnerable enemies with massive area of effect attack to be taken down.

That said this could be more a result of the nature of comics as a legacy medium. Both captain cold and boomerang came from a ... sillier (not quite sure if that's the right world) time, and are legacy charecters to a degree. Secondly Rock Lee has had a total of three fights, it much easier to avoid speedster PSI when you only have to do 3 fights, rather than the 100's of encounters the flash has had over his career.

[Inkthinker]

It's also worth mentioning that superhero characters are often hobbled by their percieved "kid-friendly" nature... The Flash should (and has, actually) punch someone 500 times before they can blink, but unlike an anime speedster, he's not "allowed" to just blow his enemy out of the water, especiall with too much violence.

Again, though, I think comparing any speedster character to The Flash is a mistake... there's a LOT of history there, and writers don't always use his powers in the most logical fashion because they prefer to plot-hammer. This is the fault of the writers and the assembly-line nature of the comics, the latter of which has done more than a little to damage the overall quality of comics. But go back far enough into the character's 50-year history, and I expect you can find him using his power in just about any fashion that can be worked out by the writers.

Another good example for comparison might be Jesse Custer's "word of God" vs. Lelouche's "geas"... both of which basically do the same thing (command a person or persons entirely, even up to and including commands to suicide or spend a lifetime performing some task). I'm not entire up on either character (only watching Code Geass on [as], and I'm several episodes behind), but I note that in both cases the power is used pretty sparingly. Of course the writers could take it in such a direction that the character uses their power whenever and however (one noted difference between the two is that Lelouche can only use his power on a person once, whereas Custer has no such restriction), but that would not necessarily make the most interesting story.

[Black Atom]

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.

I'd be inclined to say he's right, speedsters in anime tend to use the speed effectively. They may not use it effect the fundamental laws of physics by traveling at superspeed, however they will use it to punch/stab someone 500 times before they can retaliate.

Take a look at all the time flash is threatened by people like captain cold or boomerang, people who should be unconscious be for they can blink, let alone fire a cold gun. Compare to rock lee, who easily beat Sasuke on the first encounter and needed to go up against night invulnerable enemies with massive area of effect attack to be taken down.

That said this could be more a result of the nature of comics as a legacy medium. Both captain cold and boomerang came from a ... sillier (not quite sure if that's the right world) time, and are legacy charecters to a degree. Secondly Rock Lee has had a total of three fights, it much easier to avoid speedster PSI when you only have to do 3 fights, rather than the 100's of encounters the flash has had over his career.

While American superhero comics have some similarities to shonen managa like Naruto, there are some critical differences. In most shonen manga, the leads are mostly preoccupied with becoming the best/strongest fighters and most stories revolve around one-on-one fights with other characters. Some last between multiple "issues".

Fights like those are rare in superhero comics because they work differently. You can't expect a comic to go for 30 years with stories about characters just beating on eachother. Most conflicts in superhero comics amount to more than being able to knock out the bad guy and there's usually more at stake than getting beat up. Characters like Captain Cold don't simply pick fights with Flash, they concoct plans that force him to employ more than brute force, usually by putting innocent people at risk. Even when a character like Flash fights one-on-one with a character as fast as him, like Zoom, he has to use his speed in a creative and effective way to win.

It's also worth mentioning that superhero characters are often hobbled by their percieved "kid-friendly" nature... The Flash should (and has, actually) punch someone 500 times before they can blink, but unlike an anime speedster, he's not "allowed" to just blow his enemy out of the water, especiall with too much violence.

But that itself is an extremely narrow definition of using your powers effectively. Punching stuff really fast is really a rudimentary application of super speed compared to stuff Flash has done (such as infinite mass punches). And again, that sort of stuff isn't always the best choice for the stiuation.

[Gamiel]

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.



My mistake, sorry.

But I think Flash uses his super speed more effective, most manga/anime characters seams to only use it to "teleport" than attack in "normal" speed but Flash ether hits you 15 times before you feel the first hit or run around the world an hit you whit a vary heavy punch.

[Dark Soul # 7]

My mistake, sorry.

But I think Flash uses his super speed more effective, most manga/anime characters seams to only use it to "teleport" than attack in "normal" speed but Flash ether hits you 15 times before you feel the first hit or run around the world an hit you whit a vary heavy punch.Or learns how to build bridges superfast then fixes a bridge while it's falling apart before he forgets everything he lear about bridgebuilding.

[infinitebeauty]

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.


Of course, there is also the fact that most of the time, in manga/anime, killing the opponent is less of an issue. The Flash isn't going to kill any of his Rogues (and they aren't going to kill him), so of course he isn't going to shoot them. He can, however, steal their speed (like he did Inertia), which is both creative and effective (and unspeakably cruel).
In manga, that whole 'killing' thing doesn't seem to matter as much, so they can go in for more effective manouvers (although I notice that they seem to be happier spending four minutes powering up while talking about how they are powering up).
I gues that is a difference between the Japanese and American ways to handle superpowers. The American superheroes tend to do everything possible to avoid killing, even if the villain really deserves it. In Japan (from what I've seen) if the person deserves it, they will probably die. Although that's less 'handling superpowers' than 'handling those who have powers'

[lurkerinthedark]

My mistake, sorry.

But I think Flash uses his super speed more effective, most manga/anime characters seams to only use it to "teleport" than attack in "normal" speed but Flash ether hits you 15 times before you feel the first hit or run around the world an hit you whit a vary heavy punch.

Honestly the only times Flash seems to do the hit you 15 times before you feel it is in rumbles. As to the second one?

Someone on the rumbles boards did some calculations as to weightless Rock Lee's speed, and it ended up actually being slower than a bullet. Flash meanwhile, is lightspeed. Of course flash is going to have a larger arsonal, that doesn't mean he uses the speed he had more effectivly. Rock lee cannot do the run around the world or infinite mass punches, he just doesn't have the speed.

That said, pound for pound, I think he tends to use it more effectivly. Using the speed to atttack from odd angles, draw out Garaa's defenses to leave him weak in one area, and then actually hiting him when the sand is away. I'm not arguing that flash is more powerful, or doesn't use effective tactics with his speed, just that, comparitivly, pound for pound tend to be more effective.

Not creative, as it tend to be just be punch/stab the guy, get out of range of his retaliation, rinse and repeat, but effective. it's the differance between Macgyvering a device to kill/capture somonee or just shooting them. I'm not saying one is better, as the Macgyvering is often more interesting, just that pound for pound, it tends to be less effective to just shoot the guy.

[Gamiel]

Honestly the only times Flash seems to do the hit you 15 times before you feel it is in rumbles. As to the second one?

Someone on the rumbles boards did some calculations as to weightless Rock Lee's speed, and it ended up actually being slower than a bullet. Flash meanwhile, is lightspeed. Of course flash is going to have a larger arsonal, that doesn't mean he uses the speed he had more effectivly. Rock lee cannot do the run around the world or infinite mass punches, he just doesn't have the speed.

That said, pound for pound, I think he tends to use it more effectivly. Using the speed to atttack from odd angles, draw out Garaa's defenses to leave him weak in one area, and then actually hiting him when the sand is away. I'm not arguing that flash is more powerful, or doesn't use effective tactics with his speed, just that, comparitivly, pound for pound tend to be more effective.

Not creative, as it tend to be just be punch/stab the guy, get out of range of his retaliation, rinse and repeat, but effective. it's the differance between Macgyvering a device to kill/capture somonee or just shooting them. I'm not saying one is better, as the Macgyvering is often more interesting, just that pound for pound, it tends to be less effective to just shoot the guy.

you have a point regarding Rock Lee but except for him most manga/anime guys I have seen usually us it to "teleport" and then attack at slower speed

[Inkthinker]

Dragonball did it the most (and possibly first), I think. Bleach does it a lot, now, but that's the only series that immediately comes to mind (aside from Naruto, which as I mentioned is almost Marvel-esque in it's themes of putting in whatever superpower Kishimoto deems necessary for the story at any given moment, and then writing the background on it as needed).

[Nik Hasta]

A difference that doesn't exist so much now but did a good few years back is the way manga authors have a habit of exploring the negative side of superpowers as applied to the powers themselves.

A lot of manga characters have a power that destroys them as they use it or causes them to lose their humanity. Up until fairly recently the only Western analogues for this was the Hulk and Cyclops.

Look at 'Akira' for example. It's like an alternate version of the Spiderman story. A nobody, someone with no social standing who is honestly a bit of putz gets superpowers.

Both abused them at first, but Peter had his Uncle's death to galvanise him to doing something good. Tetsuo had no such defining moment and eventually his powers not only destroyed him but almost all of his friends and his city.

Not really making a point, just pointing out that it is interesting.

Then again due to the finite story telling I would liken 'Akira,' unto 'Watchmen,' more than I would a long running comic series.

[lonewolf23k]

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.

Still, I prefer that approach to Anime's overall "cool powers are made only for attack" approach to powers.

Take Ice powers, for exemple. My favorite cartoon superhero, Danny Phantom, upon learning how to use Ice powers, began using them in a multitude of ways from the start, from encasing his foes in Ice to throwing sharp Ice shards at them to creating elaborate ice sculptures. Meanwhile, in most Anime, characters with Ice powers rarely use them for much beyond shooting ice attacks.

Okay, I'm over generalizing, but I think it's an overall pattern that fits.

[MartinRedmond]

Some power feats are kind of dumb. I dislike the whole new trend of treating telepaths as computers in X-Men. You can't make someone's brain into a rar file... You can't "download" knowledge you'll remember, simply with telepathy. That would be super memory, that should be another power. I don't like that they can erase memories either.

[Darth Joker]

Point of contention, he said "effective" not creative. Effective is shooting the villian, creative is shooting the metal supporting the catwalk under the villian. It may be more orginal, it may even be arguably cooler, but it's not nearly as effective.

I'd be inclined to say he's right, speedsters in anime tend to use the speed effectively. They may not use it effect the fundamental laws of physics by traveling at superspeed, however they will use it to punch/stab someone 500 times before they can retaliate.

Take a look at all the time flash is threatened by people like captain cold or boomerang, people who should be unconscious be for they can blink, let alone fire a cold gun. Compare to rock lee, who easily beat Sasuke on the first encounter and needed to go up against night invulnerable enemies with massive area of effect attack to be taken down.

That said this could be more a result of the nature of comics as a legacy medium. Both captain cold and boomerang came from a ... sillier (not quite sure if that's the right world) time, and are legacy charecters to a degree. Secondly Rock Lee has had a total of three fights, it much easier to avoid speedster PSI when you only have to do 3 fights, rather than the 100's of encounters the flash has had over his career.

Thanks for that. :smile:

Also, I was thinking more of Superman than of the Flash when I wrote that - Superman, from what seems to be the case in many of his action scenes, never forgets his superstrength but frequently forgets his superspeed. I added the Flash largely on the basis of his rogues gallery - most of which should be 2 or 3-panel curbstomp victories for the Flash, but obviously aren't, or they wouldn't be in his rogues gallery.

Furthermore, it's just a comment on how manga characters use superspeed in fights versus how western comic book characters use superspeed in fights. Neither group of characters are particularly creative/effective in using such powers outside of fights, imo.

I like how anime/manga characters usually fight near, or at, their (current) top power potential, whereas comic book characters often don't. It's a basic suspension of disbelief issue for me.

[lonewolf23k]

Some power feats are kind of dumb. I dislike the whole new trend of treating telepaths as computers in X-Men. You can't make someone's brain into a rar file... You can't "download" knowledge you'll remember, simply with telepathy. That would be super memory, that should be another power. I don't like that they can erase memories either.

I see "erasing" memories more like using mind control to make someone forget something. People forget things all the time, after all. As for "downloading" knowledge, it's just a matter of reading all the relevent information straight out of the person's head. Like cramming for a test.

[Black Atom]

Honestly the only times Flash seems to do the hit you 15 times before you feel it is in rumbles. As to the second one?

Someone on the rumbles boards did some calculations as to weightless Rock Lee's speed, and it ended up actually being slower than a bullet. Flash meanwhile, is lightspeed. Of course flash is going to have a larger arsonal, that doesn't mean he uses the speed he had more effectivly. Rock lee cannot do the run around the world or infinite mass punches, he just doesn't have the speed.

That said, pound for pound, I think he tends to use it more effectivly. Using the speed to atttack from odd angles, draw out Garaa's defenses to leave him weak in one area, and then actually hiting him when the sand is away. I'm not arguing that flash is more powerful, or doesn't use effective tactics with his speed, just that, comparitivly, pound for pound tend to be more effective.

Not creative, as it tend to be just be punch/stab the guy, get out of range of his retaliation, rinse and repeat, but effective. it's the differance between Macgyvering a device to kill/capture somonee or just shooting them. I'm not saying one is better, as the Macgyvering is often more interesting, just that pound for pound, it tends to be less effective to just shoot the guy.

You're judging effectiveness in situations that aren't equal. Relative to Rock Lee, Flash normally encounters obstacles that require more complicated solutions than punching them really fast. "MacGuyvering" happens because creative solutions are needed. People like to talk about how the Flash rogues should be 1-panel victories for him, but anyone who's read a Flash comic knows the Rogues rarely attack him outright. Usually they formulate elaborate plans or distractions to divide his attention, setting it up so that if he did simply blitz them to hell it would cause something like a bomb to go off elsewhere. Clearly, such a situation requires a more creative application of speed than "punching really fast".

[Black Atom]

Furthermore, it's just a comment on how manga characters use superspeed in fights versus how western comic book characters use superspeed in fights. Neither group of characters are particularly creative/effective in using such powers outside of fights, imo.


I disagree, actually. In western superhero comics, the bulk of the creative use of super-powers usually takes place outside of fights. Really, prolonged fights are a shrinking part of modern American superhero comics, where that's usually the main focus of shonen manga.

[Darth Joker]

I disagree, actually. In western superhero comics, the bulk of the creative use of super-powers usually takes place outside of fights. Really, prolonged fights are a shrinking part of modern American superhero comics, where that's usually the main focus of shonen manga.

Which, incidentally, is probably part of the reason why shonen manga has grown in popularity whereas American superhero comics has fallen off from where it once was.

In any event, if western superheros use their powers very creatively outside of fights... why hasn't Reed Richards (I consider his level of intelligence a superpower) cured cancer yet? Why hasn't Superman or the Flash found a way to end poverty?

We're not talking about minor or even mid-level degrees of super-powers here - we're talking about FTL-speed forcers and one of the top scientific minds in all of fiction. As enormous as the accomplishments that I've listed are (curing cancer, ending poverty), they're not necessarily things beyond the capabilities of the superheroes mentioned above.

If Reed spent as much time trying to cure diseases as he does on building high-tech equipment for personal use, cancer could likely be cured.

If The Flash planted, and grew, vast fields of crops while moving at superspeed, he could eventually grow enough food to feed multitudes, and hence effectively combat poverty.

Now, I'm not saying that anime/manga characters are doing a whole lot to use their powers to better the world around them in such fashions either, but to me, a very creative use of superpowers outside of fights would involve the sort of world-shaping accomplishments that I listed above.

[OverMaster]

Which, incidentally, is probably part of the reason why shonen manga has grown in popularity whereas American superhero comics has fallen off from where it once was.

In any event, if western superheros use their powers very creatively outside of fights... why hasn't Reed Richards (I consider his level of intelligence a superpower) cured cancer yet? Why hasn't Superman or the Flash found a way to end poverty?

We're not talking about minor or even mid-level degrees of super-powers here - we're talking about FTL-speed forcers and one of the top scientific minds in all of fiction. As enormous as the accomplishments that I've listed are (curing cancer, ending poverty), they're not necessarily things beyond the capabilities of the superheroes mentioned above.

If Reed spent as much time trying to cure diseases as he does on building high-tech equipment for personal use, cancer could likely be cured.

If The Flash planted, and grew, vast fields of crops while moving at superspeed, he could eventually grow enough food to feed multitudes, and hence effectively combat poverty.

Now, I'm not saying that anime/manga characters are doing a whole lot to use their powers to better the world around them in such fashions either, but to me, a very creative use of superpowers outside of fights would involve the sort of world-shaping accomplishments that I listed above.

You also could say the same of why Washu hasn't made Tenchi Earth an utopia, not to m ention why the Juraians and the rest of that universe purposefully keep Earth in a 'primitive' state... just because. Or why the Negima magic community doesn't help the human world. Or why there is still poor and opressed people at the Dragon Ball world. It's the same thing at both sides of the Pacific.

As for the growing of huge crops and such, that was actually dealt with at the start of Grant Morrison's JLA run, when the Hyperclan does just that but then the environment just couldn't keep it for long. Not to mention, from a realistic point of view, such temporary bonanza eventually would lead to more overpopulation, and now we have a vicious circle where mankind becomes all to reliant on its superpowered guardians.

[Hikari Tsukishiro]

In any event, if western superheros use their powers very creatively outside of fights... why hasn't Reed Richards (I consider his level of intelligence a superpower) cured cancer yet? Why hasn't Superman or the Flash found a way to end poverty?

We're not talking about minor or even mid-level degrees of super-powers here - we're talking about FTL-speed forcers and one of the top scientific minds in all of fiction. As enormous as the accomplishments that I've listed are (curing cancer, ending poverty), they're not necessarily things beyond the capabilities of the superheroes mentioned above.

If Reed spent as much time trying to cure diseases as he does on building high-tech equipment for personal use, cancer could likely be cured.

If The Flash planted, and grew, vast fields of crops while moving at superspeed, he could eventually grow enough food to feed multitudes, and hence effectively combat poverty.


While Reed is a scientist, he isn't a genealogist or biologist. Also, it's mostly the writers fault, because they want to keep the world "similar" to the real world. Hence the status freeze.

There are also other reasons. Black Panther supposedly has a cure for AIDS or something, but refuses to share it, so we also get people like that. Also, in the Superman/Doomsday movie, Lex and his people found a cure for AIDS and cancer, but then diluted the formula and slowed the effects to a crawl to make money.

Superman tried to feed the whole world for a day, and many nations either rejected him, the hungry people ignored him and went for the food, the government armies would hoard the food, and at the end got his food destroyed by a missle that was a bio weapon.

You also could say the same of why Washu hasn't made Tenchi Earth an utopia, not to m ention why the Juraians and the rest of that universe purposefully keep Earth in a 'primitive' state... just because. Or why the Negima magic community doesn't help the human world. Or why there is still poor and opressed people at the Dragon Ball world. It's the same thing at both sides of the Pacific.

As for the growing of huge crops and such, that was actually dealt with at the start of Grant Morrison's JLA run, when the Hyperclan does just that but then the environment just couldn't keep it for long. Not to mention, from a realistic point of view, such temporary bonanza eventually would lead to more overpopulation, and now we have a vicious circle where mankind becomes all to reliant on its superpowered guardians.

As for Washu? She doesn't give a crap about the human race, why would she help? She only helps for the lolz or for the people she cares about. Negima's magician community can only do so much while in secret, and doesn't want regular humans to find out about magic. And they do help anyway with their charities around the world which several of the teachers have done. Torimaya's world is rather simple, and the author himself has admitted forgetting a lot of minor characters. Most authors wouldn't think of the global ramifications of the world.(it's all about the comedy/action in DBZ) not about social/global ramifications of how capsule technology can save more lives and benefit public.

tldr; Too many conflicting politics to help the entire world, and not everyone is a superhero.

[Farealmer]

I agree with Hikari about Washu. Why would she help humans? I don't think she even talked to a real human in the entire OVA. To say nothing of the fact that she is really only there because of Tenchi. She ain't a hero like Superman or Reed who makes it their goal to help mankind. So i don't know why anyone would compare them.

[Inkthinker]

I see "erasing" memories more like using mind control to make someone forget something. People forget things all the time, after all. As for "downloading" knowledge, it's just a matter of reading all the relevent information straight out of the person's head. Like cramming for a test.

Ah, but reading isn't retaining... that's why cramming doesn't work too well, at least for many people.

I think the assumption is that telepathy=superbrain... there's real-world cases of eidetic memory, and I guess the reasoning is that if you can read brains, then total recall should be easy-peasy.

But yeah, I like it when a writer doesn't make such assumptions. Flaws are what make characters interesting, and "I read his mind but forgot what he was thinking" is a pretty good one.

[Black Atom]

Which, incidentally, is probably part of the reason why shonen manga has grown in popularity whereas American superhero comics has fallen off from where it once was.

I suppose that could be true, even though there are so many other factors to consider to explain the disparity in popularity between manga and American superhero comics that this doesn't seem like a compelling one. For one, all manga is doing pretty well--even books that aren't fight-oriented. Do you think more prolonged fights would make more people read western comics?

In any event, if western superheros use their powers very creatively outside of fights... why hasn't Reed Richards (I consider his level of intelligence a superpower) cured cancer yet? Why hasn't Superman or the Flash found a way to end poverty?

We're not talking about minor or even mid-level degrees of super-powers here - we're talking about FTL-speed forcers and one of the top scientific minds in all of fiction. As enormous as the accomplishments that I've listed are (curing cancer, ending poverty), they're not necessarily things beyond the capabilities of the superheroes mentioned above.

If Reed spent as much time trying to cure diseases as he does on building high-tech equipment for personal use, cancer could likely be cured.

If The Flash planted, and grew, vast fields of crops while moving at superspeed, he could eventually grow enough food to feed multitudes, and hence effectively combat poverty.

Now, I'm not saying that anime/manga characters are doing a whole lot to use their powers to better the world around them in such fashions either, but to me, a very creative use of superpowers outside of fights would involve the sort of world-shaping accomplishments that I listed above.

That's deconstructing the genre itself. Comics are, basically, metaphors or myths, even if they do, basically, go on forever. That the world stays relatively unchanged is more or less a convention of the genre that's taken for granted, much the same way many aspects of manga that might seem illogical are.

Still, as others have pointed out, there have been stories about heroes using their powers proactively and there are books devoting to exploring that concept itself.

[Arilou]

I'd say the major distinction is that american comics *mainly* (but not entirely) treat superpowers as a tool. You have a basic ability that can be varied in different ways. (for offense, defense or mundane utility)

Manga *mainly* (again, not entirely) seems to treat superpowers like a "bag of tricks", with a few discrete "tricks" that can be varied, but are usually performed in very similar ways.

Manga usually uses the "D&D method" of superpowers. You know how in D&D there are a gazillion spells, all of which do one (well, sometimes two) things, and ONLY these things?

Again, these are clearly generalizations, there are different approaches on both sides, but I think it is an interesting distinction.

EDIT. Another interesting thing that often surprises me is how *badly choreographed* a lot of animé is. (rather, they seem to almost directly follow the sequential style of manga even in animation) even when the budgets are high. It amuses me because japanese *live action* movies usually have great fight choreography.

Avatar, for instance, but also stuff like Spectacular Spider-man tends to have far more fluid and kinetic fight scenes than animé.

[Hikari Tsukishiro]

I'd say the major distinction is that american comics *mainly* (but not entirely) treat superpowers as a tool. You have a basic ability that can be varied in different ways. (for offense, defense or mundane utility)

Manga *mainly* (again, not entirely) seems to treat superpowers like a "bag of tricks", with a few discrete "tricks" that can be varied, but are usually performed in very similar ways.

Manga usually uses the "D&D method" of superpowers. You know how in D&D there are a gazillion spells, all of which do one (well, sometimes two) things, and ONLY these things?

Again, these are clearly generalizations, there are different approaches on both sides, but I think it is an interesting distinction.

EDIT. Another interesting thing that often surprises me is how *badly choreographed* a lot of animé is. (rather, they seem to almost directly follow the sequential style of manga even in animation) even when the budgets are high. It amuses me because japanese *live action* movies usually have great fight choreography.

Avatar, for instance, but also stuff like Spectacular Spider-man tends to have far more fluid and kinetic fight scenes than animé.

Anime tends to cheap out on fluid animation and is typically cheaper than american cartoons. That's why you get stuff like talking heads for nearly an episode, black screen with slashes, etc.

[ChrisIII]

There are some anime with some fluid animation out there. It's mainly in OAVs and feature films (Although there's plenty of badly animated stuff with those).

[Hikari Tsukishiro]

True, but even then some OVA's tend to cheap out as well, when they are made just for the hardcore fans to make an extra buck, like for example when the OVA comes with a game or something.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I think that 166 of the Bleach anime is one of the most fluid fights I've ever seen in animation, western or eastern. If you haven't seen it, you really should.

Of course, they probably had a bigger budget for that episode.

[yamiangie]

I suppose that could be true, even though there are so many other factors to consider to explain the disparity in popularity between manga and American superhero comics that this doesn't seem like a compelling one. For one, all manga is doing pretty well--even books that aren't fight-oriented. Do you think more prolonged fights would make more people read western comics?


I think that prolonged fights would hurt western comics. Much of the Manga that we are talking about comes out weekly. Most western comics come out monthly. So there is gap in overall page count that seems do decompress the story progression in manga. And trying this out on western comics would annoy readers because things would seem to be happening really slow. I mean look at Secret invasion one of the biggest things that has been bugging people is that everyone was running round in the savage land doing a whole lot of nothing.

[Arilou]

There are some anime with some fluid animation out there. It's mainly in OAVs and feature films (Although there's plenty of badly animated stuff with those).

I'm not just talking about # of frames per second or anything like that, it's just that (even excessively high-budget anime) tends to have a very different (less fluid, more... choppy) rhytm to their fight scenes.... It's like... Well, it's hard to describe, but I totally see the difference. The odd thing is that western animation seems more like asian live action movies in the way fights and action scenes are structured, kind of?