Secondary Mutation

[Adamantium_Avatar]

I have been wracking my brains and I just cannot remember which writer originated the idea of secondary mutations.

Could someone tell me?

Also, what is everyone's opinion of the concept of secondary mutation and do you feel it is a positive or negative thing for the x-universe?

In fact as it has been a while since I have had the cash to buy comics does the concept of secondary mutation still exist or has it been swept under the carpet?


For my two-penneth, personally I hate the idea. I feel that the x-characters needed their current powers to be used in a more innovative way rather than inventing a whole slew of new ones that may or may not bear any connection to the rest of their powerset.

For example, Emma Frost: What possible conection does telepathy have to turning into living diamond/ crystal? Perhaps if she had devloped precognition, or telekinesis it wouldn't have felt so jarring... Though I would have preferred her to continue using tricks like possessing other people, as she did with Iceman way back when!

[Dr. Ghost]

wasn't it morrison?

anyway, i haven't read anything regarding "secondary mutations" but just from the sound of it, it reminds me of power-ups that are common in anime/manga.

[metalgorgomon]

CMIIW, I think it was Morrison who created the idea of Secondary Mutation.

Has anybody has the list of character that experienced secondary mutation?
I think I read somewhere that Telepathy is Jean Greys' secondary Mutation??

And yeah, although I love Emma's transformation to diamond, I think it was kinda random..

[Dr. Ghost]

doublepost; sorry.

[Jake V]

Grant Morrison came up with the idea.

It gave us Diamond Emma, which was a cool way to differentiate her from the other telepaths, and that was about it.

Cat beast could be attributed to the idea, or it might have been that ever since the experiment turned him blue, his body hasn't really had a stable form.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

Grant Morrison came up with the idea.

It gave us Diamond Emma, which was a cool way to differentiate her from the other telepaths, and that was about it.

Cat beast could be attributed to the idea, or it might have been that ever since the experiment turned him blue, his body hasn't really had a stable form.

After Sage 'jumpstarted' his mutation to save his life they 'discovered' that his mutation seems to be regressing down the evolutionary scale.. Which if you think about it is a bloody stupid mutation! Though I am not sure whether or not this is considered to be 'secondary'

Bring back ape-man Beast!!


That aside I am afraid that although I don't generally pay much attention to who writes all these stories I am fast starting to realise that I really dislike Grant Morrison's work...

I guess it's all a matter of taste though :biggrin:

[Jake V]

After Sage 'jumpstarted' his mutation to save his life they 'discovered' that his mutation seems to be regressing down the evolutionary scale.. Which if you think about it is a bloody stupid mutation! Though I am not sure whether or not this is considered to be 'secondary'

Bring back ape-man Beast!!


That aside I am afraid that although I don't generally pay much attention to who writes all these stories I am fast starting to realise that I really dislike Grant Morrison's work...

I guess it's all a matter of taste though :biggrin:

It's ok.

Your taste will get better over time.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I don't know whether you can truly say that Morrison created the concept, but he was certainly the writer who used it the most. Jean Grey did indeed start as only being a telekinetic, who developed telepathy later into the original run of Uncanny. That kind of IS a secondary mutation, although hasn't it been retconned in that she always had it, now?

Anyway, I feel pretty badly in two minds over secondary mutations. If they're logical evolutions of existing powers I can kinda buy into them (Although I hat Cat Beast more than I can possibly put into words). But it's the illogical mutations I can't stand. Emma Frost is the supreme example - a character who only developed a new power as plot device to survive Genosha. That was incredibly hackneyed, and just one of the many ways I feel Morrison messed up Emma.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

It's ok.

Your taste will get better over time.

I think it's fine as it is thanks, lol

[worstblogever]

I don't know whether you can truly say that Morrison created the concept, but he was certainly the writer who used it the most. Jean Grey did indeed start as only being a telekinetic, who developed telepathy later into the original run of Uncanny. That kind of IS a secondary mutation, although hasn't it been retconned in that she always had it, now?

Anyway, I feel pretty badly in two minds over secondary mutations. If they're logical evolutions of existing powers I can kinda buy into them (Although I hat Cat Beast more than I can possibly put into words). But it's the illogical mutations I can't stand. Emma Frost is the supreme example - a character who only developed a new power as plot device to survive Genosha. That was incredibly hackneyed, and just one of the many ways I feel Morrison messed up Emma.

You ever wonder how different Morrison's run would have been if he didn't have Emma, and Colossus would have been alive for him to use?

Especially when Scott would have started an affair with him. Man, that would have been nuts.

[Gnarl]

I thought it was revealed that Cassandra Nova set up Emmas potential for that mutation, because she wanted to have an agent in Genosha that would survive the carnage?

[Saturius]

I thought it was revealed that Cassandra Nova set up Emmas potential for that mutation, because she wanted to have an agent in Genosha that would survive the carnage?

I think that was revealed to be a lie by Cassandra in order to further make Emma feel guilty about survinng and to make her feel indebted to Cassie. Either way it was a dumb "stunt" to pull on the character.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You ever wonder how different Morrison's run would have been if he didn't have Emma, and Colossus would have been alive for him to use?

Especially when Scott would have started an affair with him. Man, that would have been nuts.

Lol. Illyana was 'Snowflake', Kitty was 'Katya', I wonder what Poitr's pet name for Scott would have been...? :biggrin:

[steve2275]

Lol. Illyana was 'Snowflake', Kitty was 'Katya', I wonder what Poitr's pet name for Scott would have been...? :biggrin:
beam me up scotty...energize

[Jeff-X]

I don't know whether you can truly say that Morrison created the concept, but he was certainly the writer who used it the most. Jean Grey did indeed start as only being a telekinetic, who developed telepathy later into the original run of Uncanny. That kind of IS a secondary mutation, although hasn't it been retconned in that she always had it, now?


Xavier turned off her telepathy because she was young and had no training, which led to her being traumatized when her best friend died both in her arms and in her head. I never realized it was being considered a secondary mutation.

[Shaid O Gray]

I don't know whether you can truly say that Morrison created the concept, but he was certainly the writer who used it the most. Jean Grey did indeed start as only being a telekinetic, who developed telepathy later into the original run of Uncanny. That kind of IS a secondary mutation, although hasn't it been retconned in that she always had it, now?.

Yeah, she now officially always had telepathy as well as telekinesis. The Professor made her telepathy dormant since it had truamatized her as a kid as she had 'felt' her friend die after a car wreck. It's a retcon I don't mind because it works and beats 'one day she just had a new power!'

Anyway, I feel pretty badly in two minds over secondary mutations. If they're logical evolutions of existing powers I can kinda buy into them (Although I hat Cat Beast more than I can possibly put into words). But it's the illogical mutations I can't stand. Emma Frost is the supreme example - a character who only developed a new power as plot device to survive Genosha. That was incredibly hackneyed, and just one of the many ways I feel Morrison messed up Emma.

I agree. But I'm not even of two minds anymore. I think the whole secondary mutation thing is useless bunk. A cheap excuse to pile new, completely unrelated powers on characters. It feels like fanfic to me.

Also, Morrisson pretty much introduced it, but then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with it. Was it really just a cheap way to have Emma survive Genosha? There was no reason to attribute Beast's degeneration to it since he'd started his own 'beastiness' years ago with that experiment. Saying that it's effects were still slowly causing him to de-evolve would've done fine. So all it did was give Emma yet more powers. Guess CC isn't the only one who likes to amp up his women, huh? So does that make Emma a 'Morrazon'?

What I always think works best for Mutant powers is that even with the really powerful ones, it all comes down to one and the same thing. Like 'telepathy'. Or 'control over magnetism/fire/stone/etc'. An enhanced body. Can turn to steel. Etc. Now telepaths can turn to diamond-Colossus-types. Great. What's next, Emma can teleport too? Oooo, tertiary mutation! Next up: heat vision!

Oh, and how is it even supposed to make sense with Beast's degeneration? He should turn into a variety of ape-like creatures then. There's no cats in our evolutionary history. That's like de-evolving a dog and then turning it into a sheep.

It all just didn't feel very thought out.

[KiplingKat]

True, she should have gone ape to monkey to lemur before he got to something even remotely cat-ish.

But I on the topic I agree with Shaid that unrelated secondary mutations are a just a cheap way of stacking power on a character...which is usually either a gimmick to get a writer out of corner or a lazy excuse for real character devlopment.

Remember the days of yore when characters learned to use their existing powers in new ways?

*sigh*

[jarrod]

Kitty Pryde's secondary mutation is lesbian seduction. I'm guessing it's pheromone based.

Karma, Emma, Sat-yr-9, Rachel, Illyana, Marrow and others have all fallen victim over the years.

[Saturius]

Read Morrison's Manifesto in the trade of E is for Extinction. The only reason he gave Emma diamond skin is because he couldn't have Collossus yet he wanted a "strong" person on the team. So he tacks on Emma's diamond form and then proceeds to not even use her in any kind of super-strength capacity anyway. This imo epitomises secondary mutations: Absolutely pointless. A concept thrown into the X-books with no further insight given at all.

[Shaid O Gray]

True, she should have gone ape to monkey to lemur before he got to something even remotely cat-ish.

But I on the topic I agree with Shaid that unrelated secondary mutations are a just a cheap way of stacking power on a character...which is usually either a gimmick to get a writer out of corner or a lazy excuse for real character devlopment.

Remember the days of yore when characters learned to use their existing powers in new ways?

*sigh*

Well, yeah, but that was, like, work and stuff! :biggrin:

[DDM]

Xavier turned off her telepathy because she was young and had no training, which led to her being traumatized when her best friend died both in her arms and in her head. I never realized it was being considered a secondary mutation.


True, although Chris Claremont later wrote the backstory to explain Jean Grey's telepathy in X-Men from Bizarre Adventures #27, a flashback within a flashback, in the original story, Jean Grey suddenly develops telepathy without explanation given the sudden demise of Charles Xavier in X-Men #42. From this point, Jean Grey is a telepath & telekinetic. Jean is still unsure of her new telepathic powers.

[jarrod]

Actually, I think the logical extensions (ie: Beast, Iceman) bug me more... I kind of like the notion of latent secondary mutations being completely unrelated, like a whole different potential mutation strain from the regular powerset (ie: Angel, Emma) that get brought about by whatever extreme circumstances trigger latent mutations.

[Darth Logan]

Wasn't Archangel given healing blood as a secondary mutation at some point? It's been ignored completely lately, even in X-Force when it would have been a huge help.

[DDM]

Wasn't Archangel given healing blood as a secondary mutation at some point? It's been ignored completely lately, even in X-Force when it would have been a huge help.

Warren also possessed a flaming sword without any details how he came by it. These developments did not make any sense. But I expect such things from Chuck Austen.

[Cub]

Lol. Illyana was 'Snowflake', Kitty was 'Katya', I wonder what Poitr's pet name for Scott would have been...? :biggrin:

Bottom.



Though Morrisson was the first to officially introduce the idea, wasn't secondary mutation later revealed to be a cause for Lorna's negative energy based powers after Zaladane screwed with her way back around Uncanny #250?

[Squidboy]

Read Morrison's Manifesto in the trade of E is for Extinction. The only reason he gave Emma diamond skin is because he couldn't have Collossus yet he wanted a "strong" person on the team. So he tacks on Emma's diamond form and then proceeds to not even use her in any kind of super-strength capacity anyway. This imo epitomises secondary mutations: Absolutely pointless. A concept thrown into the X-books with no further insight given at all.

I would think that Wolverine and Beast could have filled the strong role pretty well, if only they had been on the New X-Men team. Wait..

[marvell2100]

What are you guys talking about? There have always been secondary mutations in the X-Men. Don't you remember? Ok here goes...

Storm morphed from a beautiful goddess to a street punk and back
Kitty morphed from a geeky kid into a deadly ninja
Warren morphed from a beautiful angel into a nearly almost broke guy with metal wings.
Bobby morphed from a teen who made ice slides into an adult who made ice slides. He's morphed into something better now.
Cyclops morphed from an anal rententive guy that liked redheads into a somewhat less anal retentive guy that likes freaky sex. Hooray for him!!
Wolverine morped from some badass dude who can kick you butt into a SUPER BADASS DUDE WHO CAN KICK YOUR BUTT, YOUR DADDY'S BUTT and about a thousand ninjas while drinking his beer.

[Shaid O Gray]

True, although Chris Claremont later wrote the backstory to explain Jean Grey's telepathy in X-Men from Bizarre Adventures #27, a flashback within a flashback, in the original story, Jean Grey suddenly develops telepathy without explanation given the sudden demise of Charles Xavier in X-Men #42.

Alright, but was it ever presented in the comics as a 'secondary mutation'? It seems CC just gave a viable explanation for her telepathy that at the time they hadn't even bothered with.

Though Morrisson was the first to officially introduce the idea, wasn't secondary mutation later revealed to be a cause for Lorna's negative energy based powers after Zaladane screwed with her way back around Uncanny #250?

Speaking of which, has it ever been addressed how Lorna was related to Zaladane and why she got all big and strong for a while?

Or is it in the Bin of Dead X-Subplots? (Wait, that's gotta be the CONTAINER of Dead X-Subplots by now.)


Wolverine morped from some badass dude who can kick you butt into a SUPER BADASS DUDE WHO CAN KICK YOUR BUTT, YOUR DADDY'S BUTT and about a thousand ninjas while drinking his beer.

True...true.....but you forgot his third mutation recently:

from *SUPER BADASS DUDE WHO CAN KICK YOUR BUTT, YOUR DADDY'S BUTT and about a thousand ninjas while drinking his beer*

to

*Angsty Moping Dude Who Gets His Ass Kicked by Everyone From His Own Kids to Nanny and the Orphanmaker*

(And while I applaud the end of ridiculously-invincible Wolverine, it's still a bit much the other end of the spectrum that pretty much EVERYONE these days is described as having fighting skills that are 'on par' or 'better than' Wolverine's. Kitty, Bishop, Sage, Storm, Laura, Daken....etc etc. You can probably add Betsy to that after the current Exiles arc....hell, who ISN'T 'on par' or 'better than' Logan these days??

[ProfeZZor X]

Grant Morrison came up with the idea.

It gave us Diamond Emma, which was a cool way to differentiate her from the other telepaths, and that was about it.

Cat beast could be attributed to the idea, or it might have been that ever since the experiment turned him blue, his body hasn't really had a stable form.

Of course that made absolutely no sense at all. If anything, her secondary power should have been TK. Being able to control her density, a diamond form is what I would expect to see with Kitty, or even Colossus. Not with a telepath...

That's like giving Iceman the secondary mutation ability to shoot lazer beams through his eyes. It has nothing to do with enhancing the abilities he has now, nor is it remotely related.

[Gnarl]

Warren also possessed a flaming sword without any details how he came by it. These developments did not make any sense. But I expect such things from Chuck Austen.

Nicked it off the Illyana in Exiles, didn't he?

[DDM]

Though Morrisson was the first to officially introduce the idea, wasn't secondary mutation later revealed to be a cause for Lorna's negative energy based powers after Zaladane screwed with her way back around Uncanny #250?

Lorna Dane's gained superhuman strength & invulnerability after Zaladane stole Lorna's magnetic powers in Uncanny X-Men #250. Zaladane expected Lorna to discorporate (die)--not gain new powers. Lorna gained these new powers as a result of her connection to Malice--who feeds off negative emotions--& a combination of Zaladane's machine. Over time, people would go insane around Lorna since she absorbs negative energy. The Shadow King exploits Lorna Dane's new powers as an anchor to bring himself back to life. It's not quite a secondary mutation.

[The Black Guardian]

Xavier turned off her telepathy because she was young and had no training, which led to her being traumatized when her best friend died both in her arms and in her head. I never realized it was being considered a secondary mutation.
You have the causality flipped. It was because she was so traumatized by being in her friend's head when she died that Xavier turned off her telepathy.

Honestly, I've always considered telepathy and telekinesis to be two sides of the same coin. Whatever it is that the mutation does affects the brain, but it's up to the individual to determine how he or she wants to use it. Those proficient enough can do both; those who aren't can do one or the other. The manipulation of thought processes is just as physical as moving a pencil across a desk, just on a smaller scale. Telekinetics seem to possess the same extrasensory abilities as telepaths to varying degrees; they're just applied differently.

[jarrod]

Lorna's magentics were actually a (secondary?) latent mutation... her primary mutation is her green hair.

[Bingo!]

You ever wonder how different Morrison's run would have been if he didn't have Emma, and Colossus would have been alive for him to use?

Especially when Scott would have started an affair with him. Man, that would have been nuts.

WBE,

Do you know the back story on why Morrison chose to use Emma Frost in the X-Men?

[The Thunderbird]

WBE,

Do you know the back story on why Morrison chose to use Emma Frost in the X-Men?
I heard somewhere that he chose Emma because he couldn't use his first choice Storm. What would New X-Men be like if Storm and Colossus were there instead of Emma?

[Josef F.]

Sage wins this game.

[DeniseXfrost]

I love Emma's diamond form and its metaphor.
WBE,

Do you know the back story on why Morrison chose to use Emma Frost in the X-Men?
He wanted to use Colossus but couldn't for obvious reason. Then he got suggested by a fan to use Emma.

[Bingo!]

I love Emma's diamond form and its metaphor.

He wanted to use Colossus but couldn't for obvious reason. Then he got suggested by a fan to use Emma.

The second part I know is correct.

Do you know the character in Extreme X-Men that is named after this fan?

(honestly, I only thought WBE would know. Major points for you, DXF! :wink:)

[The Black Guardian]

Commander Kneisel

[ExodusCloak]

His Manifesto stated that he originally wanted Moira but she was dead. He then got the idea of using Emma Frost on the internet from a fan.

[DeniseXfrost]

His Manifesto stated that he originally wanted Moira but she was dead. He then got the idea of using Emma Frost on the internet from a fan.
I think he replaced Moira with Beast.

[mikeb]

This might be a stupid question, but how do you define Rogue? She has had secondary powers since her very first appearance, which are the direct result of her primary mutant power.:confused:

[Schuimend Mormel]

This might be a stupid question, but how do you define Rogue? She has had secondary powers since her very first appearance, which are the direct result of her primary mutant power.:confused:Easy: it is not a secondary mutation. The Ms. Marvel powers were grafted onto her DNA during the battle with Carol, but if you want to define Rogue's absorption of powers as temporary 'mutation', then you might say that she was a mutate for her Ms. Marvel powers, and a mutant with regard to her original powers. With secondary mutations, the potential for that second mutation is already present in the mutant themselves, it just manifests at a later age. Rogue didn't have the potential for superstrength/flight on her DNA -as far as we know- so she wouldn't have gotten those powers if she hadn't stolen them from Carol.

Of course, I won't be quick to use the word 'mutate' for Rogue, but eh... :smile:

[DDM]

Lorna's magentics were actually a (secondary?) latent mutation... her primary mutation is her green hair.

Lorna Dane is a latent mutant; in other words, she is missing the key genetic codes to unlock her mutant powers. Lorna's green hair is a sign of her mutant genes. Lorna's genetic codes are established artificially with Memsero's machine--unleashing her powers.

[DDM]

This might be a stupid question, but how do you define Rogue? She has had secondary powers since her very first appearance, which are the direct result of her primary mutant power.:confused:

Rogue's mutant powers is her absorption to gain the powers & psyche of anyone she touches; if she touches anyone for an extended period--as she did with Ms. Marvel--she will gain the powers & psyche permanently. Carol would have remained in her coma without Charles Xavier's telepathy to slowly bring her subconscious self to the surface. Rogue cannot control her mutant powers, but she usually has no problem controlling the other powers she steals.

[Kid Icarus]

His Manifesto stated that he originally wanted Moira but she was dead. He then got the idea of using Emma Frost on the internet from a fan.

Eyuk
his manifesto had some really gross ideas
and Im glad they didnt all come to pass
like
killing of Rogue just to replace her
with an Emo Evo Rogue
for unstated reasons....

[mikeb]

Easy: it is not a secondary mutation. The Ms. Marvel powers were grafted onto her DNA during the battle with Carol, but if you want to define Rogue's absorption of powers as temporary 'mutation', then you might say that she was a mutate for her Ms. Marvel powers, and a mutant with regard to her original powers. With secondary mutations, the potential for that second mutation is already present in the mutant themselves, it just manifests at a later age. Rogue didn't have the potential for superstrength/flight on her DNA -as far as we know- so she wouldn't have gotten those powers if she hadn't stolen them from Carol.

Of course, I won't be quick to use the word 'mutate' for Rogue, but eh... :smile:

Rogue's mutant powers is her absorption to gain the powers & psyche of anyone she touches; if she touches anyone for an extended period--as she did with Ms. Marvel--she will gain the powers & psyche permanently. Carol would have remained in her coma without Charles Xavier's telepathy to slowly bring her subconscious self to the surface. Rogue cannot control her mutant powers, but she usually has no problem controlling the other powers she steals.I pretty much knew this stuff.:redface: Is Rogue considered a Kree/Human hybrid like Carol is? If she is how come the Kree never came after Rogue like they came after Carol, for example, the Live Kree or Die storyline from 10 years ago.Even if Rogue "lost" her Ms.Marvel powers would she still not have the altered genetics like what happened to Carol?(Yes I've read UXM#158 and #161-166:wink: ) I remember an X-Men editor saying Rogue has no stolen powers. He didn't say anything about altered genetics! It is my theory the combination of Strain 88, the absorption of the 8 billion souls and "Goo's" "cleansing" touch will end up gaining Rogue a massive power increase.From the time Carol lost her powers to Rogue in Avengers Annual #10 in August of 1981 to when the "evolutionary modification" kicked in October of 1982 was 14 months.From when "Goo" touched Rogue in New X-Men # 46 in January of 2008, 14 months will take you to March of 2009, which ironically is right around when Legacy is suppose to come to an end. Am I comparing apples and oranges?:confused:

[DDM]

I pretty much knew this stuff.:redface: Is Rogue considered a Kree/Human hybrid like Carol is? If she is how come the Kree never came after Rogue like they came after Carol, for example, the Live Kree or Die storyline from 10 years ago.Even if Rogue "lost" her Ms.Marvel powers would she still not have the altered genetics like what happened to Carol?(Yes I've read UXM#158 and #161-166:wink: ) I remember an X-Men editor saying Rogue has no stolen powers. He didn't say anything about altered genetics! It is my theory the combination of Strain 88, the absorption of the 8 billion souls and "Goo's" "cleansing" touch will end up gaining Rogue a massive power increase.From the time Carol lost her powers to Rogue in Avengers Annual #10 in August of 1981 to when the "evolutionary modification" kicked in October of 1982 was 14 months.From when "Goo" touched Rogue in New X-Men # 46 in January of 2008, 14 months will take you to March of 2009, which ironically is right around when Legacy is suppose to come to an end. Am I comparing apples and oranges?:confused:

Rogue's DNA is different from Carol given she is a mutant. Furthermore, several of the people she has absorbed are not even human such as the Magus, leader of the Technarchy, a female Dire Wraith, Norse gods Thor & Loki, Mojo, Garrok, etc, etc...

Rogue also gained her Ms. Marvel powers differently from Carol. For example, Rogue cannot change her clothes to normal costume as Carol did & Rogue only possessed Carol's precognitive 7th sense on a limited basis. Rogue also is far more powerful than the original Ms. Marvel in strength & invulnerability. This could be due to Rogue's mutant DNA or some other unknown factor.

Carol only became Binary since she was exposed to the Brood's Evolutionary Ray; it unleashed her potential hybrid genes to make her Binary. Rogue would not have the same result.

[Leogam]

Didn't morisson also give Sebastion Shaw Telepathy in one of his stories. Where wolvie is with scott at one of shaw's bars and they run into Sabretooth

[Leogam]

DDM how do u know so much about everything ??

[HeckBoy]

I hate secondary mutations, and the less expanded upon them, the better. Although, I do find it funny that Emma's secondary mutation (which makes absolutely no sense) seems to be preferred in non-616 settings, like in the Ultimate universe and in the movie-universe (she was shown diamonding up in the Wolverine Origins trailer).

[HeckBoy]

double post somehow

[nikbackm]

I hate secondary mutations, and the less expanded upon them, the better. Although, I do find it funny that Emma's secondary mutation (which makes absolutely no sense) seems to be preferred in non-616 settings, like in the Ultimate universe and in the movie-universe (she was shown diamonding up in the Wolverine Origins trailer).

The diamond does make a certain amount of sense. It's linked to her telepathy after all. To use her telepathy she must open herself up and be vulnerable in both mind and body. In the diamond form she is invulnerable to both physical and mental (she even feels cold and detached) harm.

If she could use both at once they would be totally unrelated though.

[DDM]

DDM how do u know so much about everything ??

I have been reading Uncanny X-Men since 1987 & absorb the information like a sponge. I have also memorized several details from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #1-20. I reread those books constantly when I was a teenager.

[HeckBoy]

The diamond does make a certain amount of sense. It's linked to her telepathy after all. To use her telepathy she must open herself up and be vulnerable in both mind and body. In the diamond form she is invulnerable to both physical and mental (she even feels cold and detached) harm.

If she could use both at once they would be totally unrelated though.I meant from the stance that the 2ndary mutation was totally unrelated type-wise to her original powers. Looking at the other secondary mutation people (going off the list at Wiki anyway), at least their secondary mutations followed along a similar train of thought. Beast's was just another physical, animal regression. Archangel's healing blood "fit" him in the sense that most characters with animal-type powers had some sort of healing factor. The only one as random as Emma's, was Polaris' weird negative emotion-strength deal, which I hate. Essentially, the whole secondary mutation thing was an ill-conceived plot device to satisfy a writer's need for a certain power. And the fact that some of these secondary mutations came about to miraculously save some characters in dire need (diamond in Genosha, healing blood against wolves), is the epitome of a deus ex machina.

[Kirayoshi]

Didn't Joss Whedon retcon Emma's secondary mutation to being artifically induced by Cassandra Nova to allow her to survive the destruction of Genosha? That's the impression I got from the Torn arc, where Nova screwed with everyone's head in order to take over Kitty's body.

[nikbackm]

I meant from the stance that the 2ndary mutation was totally unrelated type-wise to her original powers. Looking at the other secondary mutation people (going off the list at Wiki anyway), at least their secondary mutations followed along a similar train of thought. Beast's was just another physical, animal regression. Archangel's healing blood "fit" him in the sense that most characters with animal-type powers had some sort of healing factor. The only one as random as Emma's, was Polaris' weird negative emotion-strength deal, which I hate. Essentially, the whole secondary mutation thing was an ill-conceived plot device to satisfy a writer's need for a certain power. And the fact that some of these secondary mutations came about to miraculously save some characters in dire need (diamond in Genosha, healing blood against wolves), is the epitome of a deus ex machina.

I never heard of the negative emotion strength unless you mean when she got big and strong.

If you look at Emma's telepathy and diamond form as polar opposites of each other the later does not seems as random.

Also, does not many mutations manifest when the subject is under physical and/or emotional strain? The same should be true for a secondary mutation.

[nikbackm]

double post

[nikbackm]

Didn't Joss Whedon retcon Emma's secondary mutation to being artifically induced by Cassandra Nova to allow her to survive the destruction of Genosha? That's the impression I got from the Torn arc, where Nova screwed with everyone's head in order to take over Kitty's body.

I don't think so. In AXM #18 we see a flashback that shows how Nova does a "hail mary" into Emma's mind while she is being tricked into Stuff. If Emma was already under Nova's influence that should not have been necessary. Heck, Emma should never have been able to trick Nova in the first place. So the meeting in Genosha was most likely a false memory inserted by Nova to further fuel Emma's survival guilt. This also works better when you consider that Torn is Whedon's version of the Dark Phoenix Saga in which Mastermind used similar techniques on Jean Grey.

[FortKnox]

Didn't they also try giving Havok the ability to fly? He was saving somebody and he used his powers to fly for a short period of time.

[Schuimend Mormel]

Didn't they also try giving Havok the ability to fly? He was saving somebody and he used his powers to fly for a short period of time.Where was this? I thought they drew him flying or floating (while blasting) somewhere in "Rise And Fall Of Shi'Ar" as well.

[Cub]

Jimmy Proudstar flew for a bit, too, when Pete Wisdom took over X-Force. I don't think I've seen him use this power since, and it was never explained.

[blehbeh]

Jimmy Proudstar flew for a bit, too, when Pete Wisdom took over X-Force. I don't think I've seen him use this power since, and it was never explained.

I think Ellis meant it to be a natural progression of his "peak human" powers, and he always had the potential to fly...Wisdom just had to teach him how to do it. I guess it'd be nice if they someday explained why it went away...but maybe not. I'm happy with believing that his "secondary mutation" is to forget how to fly.....

[jarrod]

Didn't they also try giving Havok the ability to fly? He was saving somebody and he used his powers to fly for a short period of time.
He recently flew in Emperor Vulcan, after he was thrown into a sun (which supercharged him so much Vulcan couldn't control the energy levels he was throwing around).