Do I understand R.I.P?

[FreeFallin]

I am planning on getting big into batman. meaning I'd pick up batman, nightwing, robin, maybe detective comics. and i want to see if i understand r.i.p incase they don't have the back issues.

ok, the black glove a group of villians drugged batman and taken over that batcave. batman is wandering the streets and imagines a man giving him some cloth and a radio. nightwing was drugged and stuck in the arkam asylum, leaving robin alone. now drugged up batman is running around in a techni-colored suit thinking he is batman from another planet.

i hope i can pick up as much batman ASAP

[shaxper]

Sounds right to me. There's a little more to it, but you got the general idea.

[Spiffy]

I'm not sure even Morrison fully understands RIP, FreeFallin.

[nepenthes]

if you can read and understand a newpaper then you should be able to read and understand RIP. Why are people pretending this is so weird and difficult? Is it because oooh it's that brain-addled hack Grant Morrison? I hope not. I hope these people are just generally lacking reading comprehension and not jumping on a bandwagon

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

if you can read and understand a newpaper then you should be able to read and understand RIP. Why are people pretending this is so weird and difficult? Is it because oooh it's that brain-addled hack Grant Morrison? I hope not. I hope these people are just generally lacking reading comprehension and not jumping on a bandwagon

I hope so too. I'm really glad I dropped ASM and used the spare cash to pick up Morrison's Batman run.
In my humble opinion this is the best Batman has been since Knightfall.

[FreeFallin]

if you can read and understand a newpaper then you should be able to read and understand RIP. Why are people pretending this is so weird and difficult? Is it because oooh it's that brain-addled hack Grant Morrison? I hope not. I hope these people are just generally lacking reading comprehension and not jumping on a bandwagon

i'm not on any bandwagon because i have not read it yet. all i wanted to know is i missed something important as i jump into the middle of a major story

[ZT4]

If anything, the only "bandwagon" I see is "Let's hate Grant Morrison" bandwagon.

R.I.P is the best written Batman story since "Hush"...and Loeb is the definition of hack when he's unmotivated

[drinkblatzbeer]

yeah, i agree with many of the sentiments posed here...

the story has been great, and morrison's run building up has been brilliant...i just wish the art were a bit better...

loeb is an enigma...i still don't understand how he's the guy who wrote "the long halloween" which has become, IMHO, an essential trade/read for any kind of fans of any media whatsoever, almost to the level of watchmen and miller's dark knight...
then i read some of the other stuff of his i have and i can't believe i actually followed some of his runs...

[Pixie_Solanas]

I'm not sure even Morrison fully understands RIP, FreeFallin.

Actually, Morrison has gone on record as saying you only need "Batman" to get the story of RIP. All the other books' tie-ins are incidental (and probably just shameless editorial madates).

And Tony Daniel has been superb on this and the previous Club of Heroes arc.

[atomicturtle]

Does anyone know if there's an official read order to RIP? I only ask because we got three this week and I'm not sure which to read first and last. Or, does it not matter?

[Vintage Crime]

Does anyone know if there's an official read order to RIP? I only ask because we got three this week and I'm not sure which to read first and last. Or, does it not matter?
RIP officially starts with issue 676 and should be read 676,677,678 so far. If you are wanting a more complete background Grant Morrison's run starts with issue 655. A lot of Grant's issues have built up to RIP.

However, you don't need to read Detecitive Comics, Nightwing, Robin, or any other Batman title to follow RIP. The other titles don't have much to do with RIP. The crossover is a marketing gimmick.

Although, if you don't read Detective Comics, you are missing out on great comics. Paul Dini writes great Batman stories. I highly recommend Detecitve Comics.

[Shypsi-Prime]

I too recommend Detective Comics. The tie-in things just got me interested and an opportunity to jump into it but I have been satisfied so far.

I get Batman and Detective Comics.

[Red_Knight]

Hey everyone,

a lot of people have been complaining about R.I.P. recently, claiming it's too hard to get into and understand. Personally, I can't agree. I re-read the first three issues today, and although I made a point of looking for potential stumbling blocks, I really couldn't find any.

Here's my interpretation of R.I.P. so far:

Bruce is madly in love with this Jezebel character. Meanwhile, there's this guy called Simon Hurt, who is closely affiliated with this organization called "The Black Glove", and they are out to destroy Batman. Hurt has a distinct advantage over all the other baddies, since he was able to implant some gnarly post-hypnotic suggestions in Bruce's mind. As a result, Bruce has a seizure when Hurt and his band of multi-colored freaks overrun the Batcave. Bruce is then drugged and thrown into the gutter. There, he either meets or hallucinates a friendly hobo, who guides him to a shopping cart filled with junk. Drug-addled Bruce promptly uses this junk to fashion himself a new outfit, thinking himself the Batman of another planet.

It's not your average Batman story, that's for sure. Morrison's handwriting is all over this, and I guess his slightly psychedelic style isn't for everyone. I get that. Still, I fail to see what anyone could possibly have trouble understanding. Sure, we don't have all the answers yet, but that's because it's a mystery. We are not supposed to. We just need to be able to follow along, and I certainly haven't had the slightest problem with that.

Am I overlooking something here, or what's the deal? Is R.I.P. really hard to "get"; and if so, why? Help me out here.

[Captain Jim]

if you can read and understand a newpaper then you should be able to read and understand RIP. Why are people pretending this is so weird and difficult? Is it because oooh it's that brain-addled hack Grant Morrison? I hope not. I hope these people are just generally lacking reading comprehension and not jumping on a bandwagon

You don't suppose it could have anything to do with continued references to storylines 30-40 years old? :rolleyes:

[JohnShil]

And Tony Daniel has been superb on this and the previous Club of Heroes arc.

J. H. Williams III did the Club of Heroes arc.

[Vidocq]

Hey everyone,

a lot of people have been complaining about R.I.P. recently, claiming it's too hard to get into and understand. Personally, I can't agree. I re-read the first three issues today, and although I made a point of looking for potential stumbling blocks, I really couldn't find any.

Here's my interpretation of R.I.P. so far:

Bruce is madly in love with this Jezebel character. Meanwhile, there's this guy called Simon Hurt, who is closely affiliated with this organization called "The Black Glove", and they are out to destroy Batman. Hurt has a distinct advantage over all the other baddies, since he was able to implant some gnarly post-hypnotic suggestions in Bruce's mind. As a result, Bruce has a seizure when Hurt and his band of multi-colored freaks overrun the Batcave. Bruce is then drugged and thrown into the gutter. There, he either meets or hallucinates a friendly hobo, who guides him to a shopping cart filled with junk. Drug-addled Bruce promptly uses this junk to fashion himself a new outfit, thinking himself the Batman of another planet.

It's not your average Batman story, that's for sure. Morrison's handwriting is all over this, and I guess his slightly psychedelic style isn't for everyone. I get that. Still, I fail to see what anyone could possibly have trouble understanding. Sure, we don't have all the answers yet, but that's because it's a mystery. We are not supposed to. We just need to be able to follow along, and I certainly haven't had the slightest problem with that.

Am I overlooking something here, or what's the deal? Is R.I.P. really hard to "get"; and if so, why? Help me out here.

I haven't never heard (As in conversations outside the Internet) people critized RIP for being too hard to swallow. I've heard the exact opposite though. Is simply to Shallow, he uses a lot of Pop psychology (The trigger word thingy is as Pop as it gets folks), I mean, all this hype about what will the Black Glove do and their Master Plan: Getting Batman Stoned. Now I know that I am simplifying but for an international cabal of Criminal masterminds they have some pretty lame plans. Honestly people you had THE Batman beaten, All you need is a bullet to get rid of him forever but you decide to go the ''ohh I'm so evil'' way and get him stoned. I bet Dr. Hurt was real fun for Fratboys to mess with, they will give him a wedgie and he will pay them back by getting them stoned out of their asses. At first I liked his Joker but now is becoming boring, Oooh, Look he is super violent, Oohh look he is so violent now he is Killing people, I wonder what will happen next! ooh who could've imagine HE IS KILLING PEOPLE!! . On top of that the Morrizombies drive me nuts! Not all Morrison Fans are Morrizombies.

Morrison Fan: I like/Love Grant Morrison's writting, I can understand why some don't but I love/Like it.:biggrin:

Morrizombie: WHAT!!!! You don't Like RIP or Final Crisis, You just can't appreciate Good Stories, GRANT MORRISON IS A GENIUS AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIM YOU ARE A RETARD!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Now I think that Morrison Is very Talented and, after Geoff Jones and Paul Dini, the greatest Writter in DC Comics. But he seems to be Trying to Hard to be good instead of just being Good.

[nepenthes]

You don't suppose it could have anything to do with continued references to storylines 30-40 years old? :rolleyes:

They enhance the story but I don't think they're critical. They're something a reasonably intelligent and/or open-minded reader should be able to roll with even if they don't know the full details. In many stories, movies, comics, there' often things you don't completely grasp, or are intentionally confusing or challenging, but just because it's Morrison and he has a reputation and a profile people seem more willing to throw their arms up and complain.

i'm not on any bandwagon because i have not read it yet. all i wanted to know is i missed something important as i jump into the middle of a major story

no I wasn't referring to you at all. But I have to say, you're doing yourself a huge disservice if you go into RIP without reading the earlier trade and issues. I think of Morrison's entire run as being 'RIP', it's all important. And overall it's going to be a standout Batman story of all time so you probably won't regret buying them. Get Baman & Son tpb and the Black Glove tpb when it's out in September.

[carabas]

You don't suppose it could have anything to do with continued references to storylines 30-40 years old? :rolleyes:without internet, I wouldn't even have known that those were references to ancient stories rather than brandnew material. What was needed to understand Morrison's stories was retold inside those stories.

[atomicturtle]

RIP officially starts with issue 676 and should be read 676,677,678 so far. If you are wanting a more complete background Grant Morrison's run starts with issue 655. A lot of Grant's issues have built up to RIP.

However, you don't need to read Detecitive Comics, Nightwing, Robin, or any other Batman title to follow RIP. The other titles don't have much to do with RIP. The crossover is a marketing gimmick.

Ahh, I was wondering why they didn't appear to have anything to do with each other. I'm a DC-nut and I get near everything with the DC logo, so I'd be picking up Nightwing, Robin and Detective anyway, just wasn't sure if these were going to eventually tie into each other or not.

Thanks for the info.

[BoSoxJay]

The latest issue of "Robin" might have some actual clues in it to the main "R.I.P." story as it reveals that Bats told someone (I wont spoil it. heh.) he expected to be taken out and a mystery seems to be revolving around the number 49. It's worth checking out I think.

[flapjaxx]

Yeah, I think the "R.I.P." brand--on the other titles and even on Batman--is kind of misleading. These six issues are basically just chapters 20-25 of Morrison's run. If we have to have a label, there's not much reason why "R.I.P." couldn't have technically begun with #672 instead of #676. Or #677 could have been part 1, because not many things of consequence happened in #676.

I haven't never heard (As in conversations outside the Internet) people critized RIP for being too hard to swallow. I've heard the exact opposite though.

You've heard that it's TOO easy to swallow?? REALLY? Granted, I have heard the "shallow" criticism a few times (vs. the hundreds of times I've heard the "incomprehensible" complaint), but usually that's phrased in terms of "The stories are difficult, and when you figure them out they're not that profound." I can understand that criticism, but I think that the value of Morrison's best work comes in figuring out how he's constructed the story. He doesn't leave readers with a warm fuzzy feeling, or with a nice--and some would say "predictable"--life-affirming theme to hold onto after the last page has been read.

I mean, all this hype about what will the Black Glove do and their Master Plan: Getting Batman Stoned. Now I know that I am simplifying but for an international cabal of Criminal masterminds they have some pretty lame plans.

GREAT criticism. If more people realized that Honor Jackson was part of the Black Glove's plan (if not the Black Glove himself in disguise), then this problem wouldn't exist. Seriously, I know where you're coming from. Because everyone's acting like Honor Jackson was this friendly little ghost who helps Bruce out. Yeah, that sounds more like a soppy episode of "Touched by an Angel", not the third chapter of "Batman R.I.P." by Grant Morrison. As of 678, Bruce has yet to hit rock bottom. It's completely laughable to think that the Club of Villains are just going to drop Bruce Wayne off with a case of amnesia and have done with him. Why on earth would the Black Glove NOT be monitoring if not meddling with Bruce while he's in this state? Of COURSE they'd be manipulating him--therefore, it sure seems like friendly old Honor Jackson isn't a guardian angel.

[Xybernauts]

I am planning on getting big into batman. meaning I'd pick up batman, nightwing, robin, maybe detective comics. and i want to see if i understand r.i.p incase they don't have the back issues.

ok, the black glove a group of villians drugged batman and taken over that batcave. batman is wandering the streets and imagines a man giving him some cloth and a radio. nightwing was drugged and stuck in the arkam asylum, leaving robin alone. now drugged up batman is running around in a techni-colored suit thinking he is batman from another planet.

i hope i can pick up as much batman ASAP

I don't remember when when Nightwing was drugged and stuck in Arkham. That really happened? Also, what happened to Jezebel? I guess they didn't address that yet or am I wrong. And was Jezebel in on the invasion or was it just a coincidence that Wayne just happened to show her the way into the cave via the underground river just moments before.

[ZT4]

I don't remember when when Nightwing was drugged and stuck in Arkham. That really happened? Also, what happened to Jezebel? I guess they didn't address that yet or am I wrong. And was Jezebel in on the invasion or was it just a coincidence that Wayne just happened to show her the way into the cave via the underground river just moments before.

Most fans are pretty sure Jezebel is in on everything. I think it'd be much more refreshing if she was set up as the mastermind and Batman puts an innocent in the wrong place, leading to her death.

And yes, Nightwing was abducted, drugged, unmasked, and thrown in Arkham

[Vintage Crime]

I haven't never heard (As in conversations outside the Internet) people critized RIP for being too hard to swallow. I've heard the exact opposite though. Is simply to Shallow, he uses a lot of Pop psychology (The trigger word thingy is as Pop as it gets folks), I mean, all this hype about what will the Black Glove do and their Master Plan: Getting Batman Stoned. Now I know that I am simplifying but for an international cabal of Criminal masterminds they have some pretty lame plans. Honestly people you had THE Batman beaten, All you need is a bullet to get rid of him forever but you decide to go the ''ohh I'm so evil'' way and get him stoned. I bet Dr. Hurt was real fun for Fratboys to mess with, they will give him a wedgie and he will pay them back by getting them stoned out of their asses. At first I liked his Joker but now is becoming boring, Oooh, Look he is super violent, Oohh look he is so violent now he is Killing people, I wonder what will happen next! ooh who could've imagine HE IS KILLING PEOPLE!! . On top of that the Morrizombies drive me nuts! Not all Morrison Fans are Morrizombies.

Morrison Fan: I like/Love Grant Morrison's writting, I can understand why some don't but I love/Like it.:biggrin:

Morrizombie: WHAT!!!! You don't Like RIP or Final Crisis, You just can't appreciate Good Stories, GRANT MORRISON IS A GENIUS AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIM YOU ARE A RETARD!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Now I think that Morrison Is very Talented and, after Geoff Jones and Paul Dini, the greatest Writter in DC Comics. But he seems to be Trying to Hard to be good instead of just being Good.
What I don't understand is why posters get so worked up about Morrison fans questioning other people's intelligence. Why do any of you even care what a "Morrizombie" types over the internet? Your days might go better if you weren't so sensitive to what people say on the internet.

Honestly, quite a few things about Grant Morrison's stories go over my head. However, there are posters on here that explain things and I get a further understainding of the material. I could spend all of my free time reading the bible, norse mythology, chaos magic, and other influences of Grant Morrison so that I could feel on par with the knowledge of some of the posters on CBR, but I'm more interested in treasury stock purchases and the Securities Exchange Acts of 1933 and 1934 right now.

What I can tell you is that I personally enjoy a mystery. I have enjoyed trying to figure out who leads the Black Glove and what there plans are. I have enjoyed several of the threads in the past that speculated about the Black Glove. Maybe the Black Glove isn't as dangerous as they could possibly be. However, I don't read Batman expecting him to be murdered and easily defeated. I feel that I get my $3 worth with these comics, and if I didn't I would take them off of my pull list. We all have the choice to purchase what comics we like. As of right now I really enjoy Batman and Detective Comics for different reasons.

I would have taken your criticisms of the drug use more seriously if your post didn't seem like an attempt to start a flame war. I don't want to be a jerk, but maybe you should pick your battles more carefully. I don't think you'll change the mind of a Morrizombie fan and I don't see what benefit you would achive in trying to do so.

[Vidocq]

What I don't understand is why posters get so worked up about Morrison fans questioning other people's intelligence. Why do any of you even care what a "Morrizombie" types over the internet? Your days might go better if you weren't so sensitive to what people say on the internet.

Honestly, quite a few things about Grant Morrison's stories go over my head. However, there are posters on here that explain things and I get a further understainding of the material. I could spend all of my free time reading the bible, norse mythology, chaos magic, and other influences of Grant Morrison so that I could feel on par with the knowledge of some of the posters on CBR, but I'm more interested in treasury stock purchases and the Securities Exchange Acts of 1933 and 1934 right now.

What I can tell you is that I personally enjoy a mystery. I have enjoyed trying to figure out who leads the Black Glove and what there plans are. I have enjoyed several of the threads in the past that speculated about the Black Glove. Maybe the Black Glove isn't as dangerous as they could possibly be. However, I don't read Batman expecting him to be murdered and easily defeated. I feel that I get my $3 worth with these comics, and if I didn't I would take them off of my pull list. We all have the choice to purchase what comics we like. As of right now I really enjoy Batman and Detective Comics for different reasons.

I would have taken your criticisms of the drug use more seriously if your post didn't seem like an attempt to start a flame war. I don't want to be a jerk, but maybe you should pick your battles more carefully. I don't think you'll change the mind of a Morrizombie fan and I don't see what benefit you would achive in trying to do so.

That was just me ranting about the fans, And they woudn't get on my nerves if it wasn't because they have invaded plentty of my Social Circles, Inside and outside the Internet. I wasn't trying to start a Flame war, Honest. Just Ranting.



You've heard that it's TOO easy to swallow?? REALLY? Granted, I have heard the "shallow" criticism a few times (vs. the hundreds of times I've heard the "incomprehensible" complaint), but usually that's phrased in terms of "The stories are difficult, and when you figure them out they're not that profound." I can understand that criticism, but I think that the value of Morrison's best work comes in figuring out how he's constructed the story. He doesn't leave readers with a warm fuzzy feeling, or with a nice--and some would say "predictable"--life-affirming theme to hold onto after the last page has been read.


Yeah that was poor choice of words. I was trying to say that I've haven't heard that much hard to swallow criticism as much as I've heard the Shallow criticism But then again I haven't heard that much criticism anyway.

[Devil_LeonX]

whoa things are getting a little out of hand....anyhow hey guys I have been reading RIP but I occiasionlly go to see what wiki has to say about and it has a few things that frankly...I dont remember like the whole orgy picutre thing....did I just miss something or did it happen a bit before RIP?

[1WEBHEAD]

whoa things are getting a little out of hand....anyhow hey guys I have been reading RIP but I occiasionlly go to see what wiki has to say about and it has a few things that frankly...I dont remember like the whole orgy picutre thing....did I just miss something or did it happen a bit before RIP?

I think some police dude gave Gordon pics of Alfread and Martha getting freaky.

Gordon was all like: "ZOMGWTFBBQ?!"

[TROUBLEZ]

double post.

[TROUBLEZ]

if you can read and understand a newpaper then you should be able to read and understand RIP. Why are people pretending this is so weird and difficult? Is it because oooh it's that brain-addled hack Grant Morrison? I hope not. I hope these people are just generally lacking reading comprehension and not jumping on a bandwagon

There's no first page to explain what happened previously to get readers a little caught up, unlike Marvel's practice.

There is no thought balloons and very few internal monologue captions, and they were unclear as to who they belonged too.

I bought Batman #678 at Barnes & Noble. The issue starts off with someone with purple gloves holding a mechanical device with a bat logo on it, saying, "'the Bat-Radia' is turned on." I'm guessing he's part of this "Black Glove" villain group out to get Batman and this dude is from the south the way he pronounces "radio" "radia."
Then it shows either Tim Drake or Jason Todd reading an old journal. The pages from it were plain yellow tattered pages showing drawings and writing. The caption boxes were in the style of white purple-lined notebook paper. The letterer in Green Lantern uses lined notebook styled caption boxes for Hal Jordan's internal monologue so I thought it was the thoughts of the person reading the journal.

Where he is at, I don't know. It looks like he's in a shack in the forest but other than that who knows. A national forest? A shed on the property of the large Wayne Estate? A location caption would have been nice.

In one panel, Tim/Jason is reading the journal and the caption box says "I don't want to know what goes on in the Joker's head. I have to know."

So I assumed that the journals were the Joker's (he's insane and that's why one page has a "case" that says "ROBIN DIES AT DAWN."

The last panel on the page has a close up of Tim/Jason/Idon'tknowwho and the caption says, "If it wasn't for Robin's humor and forthrightness....
So I guess that it's Jason reading this journal and he's thinking/talking about Tim/Robin.

Later in another panel Jason (?) on his bike is flying or jumping into the background but the tree in the foreground is behind him.

A mime jumps on the back of his bike and Jason heads toward low hanging branch to ditch him. The next panel shows the mime doing a sideways flip, but there is no sound effect lettering so either he got hit by the branch or he did a a flamboyant backwards jump to dodge it.


Later Bruce Wayne wakes up in trash and a bum named Honor Jackson is kicking him to get out of his belongings but then recognizes him and helps him up and later on, together they pose as veterans to get spare change. Bruce apparently has amnesia and just goes with the flow.

Then a panel then shows Batman with his mask off, having convulsions and babbling "Zur Enn Arggh." I don't know if this is a flashback or happening in "real" time.

Jason finally makes it to a diner to call Nightwing. Nightwing, after beating up some classic Roman themed criminals, responds "what's up Tim."
So it turns out it was Tim, which is confusing because he was dressed like Jason(leather jacket) and referring to himself in the third person (Robin).

The first half of the issue was confusing, not so much with the plot but as to who was talking, who I'm looking at, etc.

[carabas]

Then it shows either Tim Drake or Jason Todd reading an old journal. The pages from it were plain yellow tattered pages showing drawings and writing. The caption boxes were in the style of white purple-lined notebook paper. The letterer in Green Lantern uses lined notebook styled caption boxes for Hal Jordan's internal monologue so I thought it was the thoughts of the person reading the journal.
The notebook caption in Green Lantern are direct quotes from Hal, relating his origin. Most likely, they'll turn out to be direct quotes from adiary or something he's writing.

The notebook captions in Batman are direct quotes from the notebook on page, which is Batman's black casefile. Tim Drake is reading them. This seems very obvious to me.

[Red_Knight]

Then it shows either Tim Drake or Jason Todd reading an old journal. The pages from it were plain yellow tattered pages showing drawings and writing. The caption boxes were in the style of white purple-lined notebook paper. The letterer in Green Lantern uses lined notebook styled caption boxes for Hal Jordan's internal monologue so I thought it was the thoughts of the person reading the journal.

Why would the caption boxes in Batman correspond with those in Green Lantern, though? The design was merely a stylistic choice. Since Tim was reading the notebook, I immediately jumped to the conclusion that the caption boxes were showing portions of the text.

Where he is at, I don't know. It looks like he's in a shack in the forest but other than that who knows. A national forest? A shed on the property of the large Wayne Estate? A location caption would have been nice.

The previous issue revealed that Tim "ran away" to cope with the current going-ons. SO, it's safe to assume that he wasn't on the Wayne estate. Other than that, does his location really matter?

In one panel, Tim/Jason is reading the journal and the caption box says "I don't want to know what goes on in the Joker's head. I have to know."

So I assumed that the journals were the Joker's (he's insane and that's why one page has a "case" that says "ROBIN DIES AT DAWN."

The last panel on the page has a close up of Tim/Jason/Idon'tknowwho and the caption says, "If it wasn't for Robin's humor and forthrightness....
So I guess that it's Jason reading this journal and he's thinking/talking about Tim/Robin.

Again, I immediately took the caption boxes to be quotes from the notebook. Since the notebooks were introduced early in Morrison's run and mentioned again in Batman #677, I knew what Tim was reading from, too. "Robin Dies At Dawn" might be a slightly confusing reference, but this, too, was mentioned and explained in Morrison's "Space Medicine" arc.

A mime jumps on the back of his bike and Jason heads toward low hanging branch to ditch him. The next panel shows the mime doing a sideways flip, but there is no sound effect lettering so either he got hit by the branch or he did a a flamboyant backwards jump to dodge it.

Does it really matter whether he gets hit or dodges, though? He reappears later, so he obviously didn't die or anything.

Later Bruce Wayne wakes up in trash and a bum named Honor Jackson is kicking him to get out of his belongings but then recognizes him and helps him up and later on, together they pose as veterans to get spare change. Bruce apparently has amnesia and just goes with the flow.

Then a panel then shows Batman with his mask off, having convulsions and babbling "Zur Enn Arggh." I don't know if this is a flashback or happening in "real" time.

Batman #677 ended with an unmasked Bruce having a seizure in the Batcave and babbling "Zur En Arr". Since we never saw what happened after the Club of Villains took over the cave, it was pretty clear to me that this was a flashback to bridge the gap between Bruce going down and waking up in the alley.

I can understand your confusion in certain areas, but I think a lot of that stems from the fact that you picked up part 2 of a 6-part story that the author has been building up to for over a year. Some initial confusion is bound to happen when doing something like that. I still hope you'll enjoy R.I.P.

[pariah-1972]

This is probably the easier Morrison book i've ever read next to his JLA arc so take that for what you will.

The thing that does annoy me about Morrison is if you aren't on his wavelength or haven't read the books he has there's nothing to help you figure things out
cept for random people on the internet who usually try to show off how smart they are and how stupid you are for not "getting it" immediately.

There's no internal dialogue, there's no references to what books he is referencing,there's captions nothing.

So it's either you get it or you don't.

and i find that really bad writing imo
there are lots of comics i read where someone will quote or reference a book or author and it's usually something easier to understand like if superman quotes Shakespeare most people will have it go "Shakespeare says so and so" and there's a correlation between the quote and whats going on in the book.

Morrison does not do that.

[carabas]

and i find that really bad writing imo
there are lots of comics i read where someone will quote or reference a book or author and it's usually something easier to understand like if superman quotes Shakespeare most people will have it go "Shakespeare says so and so" and there's a correlation between the quote and whats going on in the book.

Morrison does not do that.
I am fairly sure that he does this all the time. Half of Mad tom's dialogue (from The Invisibles) was Shakespeare, Tennyson...

[pariah-1972]

I am fairly sure that he does this all the time. Half of Mad tom's dialogue (from The Invisibles) was Shakespeare, Tennyson...
Does he actually say "Shakespear said"?
I mean if you want to educate people it would help .

[carabas]

Eh, no. I didn't think that was what you meant.

And I disagree. Using a quote, and then having a character say "look at this quote by such or so author", that's appalingly bad writing, and patronising to booth, as it assumes that the reader has no brains of his own.

[Leocomix]

RIP is hard to get if you read one installment a month and thirty comics between two installments. By the time I reached the end of 674, I didn't understand why he ended up in a dumpster because I had forgotten that the whole sequence started after a jump in parachute in 672.
If you read them in sequence, it's quite easy. I just did that, also reading Batman: Gothic, and one can recognise Morrison's familiar beats.
In an interview with Comic Book Resources, Grant Morrison explained that what's going to happen to Batman is "so much better than death. People have killed characters in the past but to me, that kind of ends the story! I like to keep the story twisting and turning. So what I am doing is a fate worse than death. Things that no one would expect to happen to these guys at all. This is the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman.
I think that the Bruce Wayne persona has been destroyed, he's now just Batman and I'm not sure it's curable.

[Red_Knight]

I think that the Bruce Wayne persona has been destroyed, he's now just Batman and I'm not sure it's curable.

That's the permanent state, I think. I don't believe it'll be permanent, though. That wouldn't be new. Bruce quit his private life and identity a number of times over the years, most recently in [I]Bruce Wayne: Fugitive[/I.]

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

RIP is hard to get if you read one installment a month and thirty comics between two installments. By the time I reached the end of 674, I didn't understand why he ended up in a dumpster because I had forgotten that the whole sequence started after a jump in parachute in 672.
If you read them in sequence, it's quite easy. I just did that, also reading Batman: Gothic, and one can recognise Morrison's familiar beats.
In an interview with Comic Book Resources, Grant Morrison explained that what's going to happen to Batman is "so much better than death. People have killed characters in the past but to me, that kind of ends the story! I like to keep the story twisting and turning. So what I am doing is a fate worse than death. Things that no one would expect to happen to these guys at all. This is the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman.
I think that the Bruce Wayne persona has been destroyed, he's now just Batman and I'm not sure it's curable.

Wouldn't that be Bruce Wayne RIP instead? It's an interesting theory though,Leo.

[TROUBLEZ]

I can understand your confusion in certain areas, but I think a lot of that stems from the fact that you picked up part 2 of a 6-part story that the author has been building up to for over a year. Some initial confusion is bound to happen when doing something like that. I still hope you'll enjoy R.I.P.

First off, the pages are clearly yellowed or brown and are un-lined. The caption boxes were bright white, lined notebook paper. So that's why I didn't think it was from that journal. It would have helped if the captions would have been at least the same color as the journals, or if the artist would have drawn them on lined notebook paper.

As for coming in an issue late, these are monthly books. In my opinion, writers should take into consideration that not everyone has been following since day one. To me the overall situation was confusing. If it had just been the lack of an established location fine. But that combined with the unclear identity of the reader. Jason is established to have a leather with a red hood/mask. This character has a leather jacket and red helmet.

About the mime, I guess it doesn't really matter, but in a medium like comics where you have full advantage of lettering effects, captions, impact lines etc, it seems a little silly not to take advantage of them. Morrison could easlily have put a "THOK!" sound effect or the artist could have drawn an impact illustration. Not a big deal, but reading more about Morrison run's online I also read how there was a mix up one of the last pages where the scene took place all in the Joker's mind but the artist drew it in reality.

After going online and making sense out of what's going on, I think it's a pretty cool story. I just think it requires that you either be a long time Batman fan and understand all the silver age references or that you need to go online to make complete sense of it.

I wasn't reading comics in the 60s and I don't like having to go on the computer to find out what's going on.

I think writers should go back to the idea that every issue is a first issue for somebody. I know the group of that type of reader is shrinking, but writing in the fashion that today's modern comic writers are doing only ensures that comic readership become more marginalized to a small group of hobbyists.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

Typically I use message boards and internet sites as an additonal reference point when reading a series like Batman R.I.P. The items, storylines, or issues that are confusing and/or have plot devices I'm not familiar with I will check CBR or a similar website/forum to fill in the holes. I have yet to be baffled by an issue yet and not find ANY additional information online.

You may not understand everything 110% when reading an issue. You can read an issue and catch the basic plot, but it's nice to know that something referenced an old issue or story line from the past by doing some mild research.

[Devil_LeonX]

I think some police dude gave Gordon pics of Alfread and Martha getting freaky.

Gordon was all like: "ZOMGWTFBBQ?!"

But I dont remember them actually showing it do they?

[DJ_Killdarling]

This is the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman.
I think that the Bruce Wayne persona has been destroyed, he's now just Batman and I'm not sure it's curable.

I'm wondering if what will happen at the end of RIP is actually the opposite of this.

In the recent GM interview, he said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Final Crisis follows RIP, and the Batman appearing in FC is Bruce Wayne, but not like we've ever seen him before.

The whole idea of Batman being the true persona while Bruce Wayne is little more than a mask has been all but stated as fact in recent years, so I don't know how shocking it would be for Batman to lose Bruce.

But what if Bruce lost Batman?

I mean, what if at the end of RIP the "Batman" persona is exorcised for some reason, leaving only Bruce? He would have the same memories and skills as before, but Batman would be nothing more than a costume that Bruce Wayne puts on. But is that really all you need to be Batman?

Like I mentioned before, I seem to recall several stories touching on the theme of why Batman needs Bruce Wayne to balance himself out, but I have trouble recalling any stories that discuss why Bruce Wayne needs the inner demons of the Batman.

In a slightly related note, I think this ties into the mystery of the Bat-Mite, and possibly the Black Glove. With every appearance in GM's Batman run, the shadowy insectoid entity hiding behind the (mostly) cute-looking Bat-Mite becomes harder and harder to overlook. The way they always appear together lends itself to the idea that they are attached, or even the same entity.

I tend to find myself following a theory someone else threw out on the net: that the shadowy insect is the true Bat-mite. A "mite" is an arachnid after all (a blood-sucking, parasitic arachnid at that). This theory (which I really which I could remember who to credit) further posited that this "Bat-mite" was the symbol of all of young Bruce Wayne's deepest hopes and fears, and the sprite-like "Bat-Mite" was just a costume Bruce's subconscious threw on the true arachnoid Bat-Mite, a way of young Bruce to make an ally of the darkness inside him.

Now, what I think is worth considering is that for all of this "Bat-Mite's" appearances in GM's run, "he" has only been named once, and that was not as "Bat-Mite" but "Bat-Might." To make a long story short ('cuz I know I'm runnin' too long already) I think Bruce is identifying this shadowy insectoid, the avatar of all his inner fears, as the source of his "power" as Batman. It may even be the Black Glove (but I'm less sure of that part).

Anyway, to reconnect to my first idea, what if Bruce were to remove this "parasite" somehow? I think he would be healthier in some ways, but may lack the inner willpower to truly be "the Batman."

Whatever happens, I'm enjoying the ride!:biggrin:

[pariah-1972]

I'm wondering if what will happen at the end of RIP is actually the opposite of this.

In the recent GM interview, he said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Final Crisis follows RIP, and the Batman appearing in FC is Bruce Wayne, but not like we've ever seen him before.

The whole idea of Batman being the true persona while Bruce Wayne is little more than a mask has been all but stated as fact in recent years, so I don't know how shocking it would be for Batman to lose Bruce.

But what if Bruce lost Batman?

I mean, what if at the end of RIP the "Batman" persona is exorcised for some reason, leaving only Bruce? He would have the same memories and skills as before, but Batman would be nothing more than a costume that Bruce Wayne puts on. But is that really all you need to be Batman?

Like I mentioned before, I seem to recall several stories touching on the theme of why Batman needs Bruce Wayne to balance himself out, but I have trouble recalling any stories that discuss why Bruce Wayne needs the inner demons of the Batman.

In a slightly related note, I think this ties into the mystery of the Bat-Mite, and possibly the Black Glove. With every appearance in GM's Batman run, the shadowy insectoid entity hiding behind the (mostly) cute-looking Bat-Mite becomes harder and harder to overlook. The way they always appear together lends itself to the idea that they are attached, or even the same entity.

I tend to find myself following a theory someone else threw out on the net: that the shadowy insect is the true Bat-mite. A "mite" is an arachnid after all (a blood-sucking, parasitic arachnid at that). This theory (which I really which I could remember who to credit) further posited that this "Bat-mite" was the symbol of all of young Bruce Wayne's deepest hopes and fears, and the sprite-like "Bat-Mite" was just a costume Bruce's subconscious threw on the true arachnoid Bat-Mite, a way of young Bruce to make an ally of the darkness inside him.

Now, what I think is worth considering is that for all of this "Bat-Mite's" appearances in GM's run, "he" has only been named once, and that was not as "Bat-Mite" but "Bat-Might." To make a long story short ('cuz I know I'm runnin' too long already) I think Bruce is identifying this shadowy insectoid, the avatar of all his inner fears, as the source of his "power" as Batman. It may even be the Black Glove (but I'm less sure of that part).

Anyway, to reconnect to my first idea, what if Bruce were to remove this "parasite" somehow? I think he would be healthier in some ways, but may lack the inner willpower to truly be "the Batman."

Whatever happens, I'm enjoying the ride!:biggrin:Interesting theories !