The Dark Knight Returns or The Killing Joke

[Libaax]

This is not about the best Batman story ever. Even if you think one of them is.

A message board friend in a book forum said hat KJ was thought to be better by Batman fans. Since i have seen more love for DKR i was wondering which one is rated most here.

Nothing about which of them is overrated or which story is better than both but which of them is simply the better.


Dont count in that DKR meant many people copied DK angle over many years. Just rate the two stories, not their importance for Batman comics since their day.

Also its not who you like most of Frank Miller and Alan Moore. Not about how overrated sadly FM is these days....

[dancj]

A message board friend in a book forum said hat KJ was thought to be better by Batman fans.

Your friend is wrong. You can argue all you want about which is better (IMO Dark Knight returns is way way better), but TDKR is without a doubt the most popular.

[Libaax]

Popular is pointless.

I want to know which ones Bat fans here think are Better/Enjoy more.

Not oh i think DKR is worse but its more popular. Not interested in that.

Im only interested in fellow Batman fans opinions not which one is bigger or popular or sold more according to everyone.


I voted Dark Knight Returns because IMHO its the best Batman story ever written. Havent read all Batman stories of course. Have read everything is classic and its the best.

I rate Year One,Dark Victory,Tales of Demon over The Killing Joke too.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

well as gar as having direct impact on the characters, TKJ.
Joker trying to break Gordon was a good story.

[Libaax]

well as gar as having direct impact on the characters, TKJ.
Joker trying to break Gordon was a good story.

Does that mean you enjoy that story most of both ?


Cause thats what im asking for.

Impact for characters shouldnt count at all if that means what it did for The Joker as origin like story . Its all about overall quality or enjoyment.

I said it in my first post.


DKR is important for showing DK angle and a possible bleak future for him.

TKJ being the most popular origin of Joker. The new movie made it even more clear and popular as origin of The Joker.

[Cornelius Stirk]

I don't know; I used to like DKR a lot, but the last time I read it it kind of left me cold-it seemed like Miller was using it as a platform for his own beliefs.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Does that mean you enjoy that story most of both ?


Cause thats what im asking for.

Impact for characters shouldnt count at all if that means what it did for The Joker as origin like story . Its all about overall quality or enjoyment.

I said it in my first post.


DKR is important for showing DK angle and a possible bleak future for him.

TKJ being the most popular origin of Joker. The new movie made it even more clear and popular as origin of The Joker.

I voted for it, and then gave my reason for liking it (even if it's just a little)more.

[jesse_custer]

Dark Knight Returns was more enjoyable and interesting for me. The Killing Joke was just too obvious in places. I also couldn't buy Batman laughing at the end. Dark Knight Returns was an unleashed monster of a story.

You know what? I don't think The Killing Joke is Moore's best Batman story. Batman Annual #11 is better.

[Sean Walsh]

Been a long while since I've read either of them, but I remember being more shocked by and more into KILLING JOKE than TDKR.

I really should read them again, dammit.

[Ult. Fireboy]

I prefer TDKR. I didn't care to much for the Killing Joke.

[Libaax]

I voted for it, and then gave my reason for liking it (even if it's just a little)more.

Ah my bad then.

[Joe Rice]

Even the writer of the Killing Joke admits it's bad.

[JohnRD]

As much as I like both stories, I think TDK is the better of the two.

[The Joker]

I like TKJ ... but I enjoyed TDKR more to be perfectly honest.

[Karl O'Neill]

The Dark Knight Returns hands down.

The Killing Joke is good but not one of moore's best written work.

[tlunning]

I love them both very much.

[Schornforce]

I think DKR is the better story, but I personally greatly prefer TKJ.

[buttah]

I don't remember much of TKJ but I think I enjoyed it less than DKR. So it's DKR for me.

[BUDSHAD]

Both are really good in very diff ways. I was much younger when I read TDKR and I remember thinking "shit!" this is amazing. I am 33 now and have just read TKJ and I also said "shit" this is amazing. Good stuff. Both of em.
For the record..... I would have to say TDKR is the best.

[Vidocq]

I voted for DKR.As of Batman's stories go to me this is the absolute best. The Killing Joke however is not so much a Batman Story as it is a Joker Story. Every time I read it seems to me that Moore didn't enjoy himself as much as he seem to everytime he wrote Superman.

Both Great reads though.

[nepenthes]

Dark Knight Returns without question. I can read it over and over again. For a long time DKR, Killing and Year One were the only trades I had available, and that's exactly what I did.

[Joe Rice]

It should be noted that I don't really like DKR all that much, but it's still way better.

[Indigo Al]

Dark Knight Returns, hands down. Although I did enjoy Bolland's art on TKJ.

[PLEDGE]

both overrated, but solid stories. i wasnt blown away by either. id take year one over dkr and man who laughs over killing joke any day. but out of these id go killing joke.

[Grazzt]

Even the writer of the Killing Joke admits it's bad.

Did he actually say it was bad? I thought he just regretted his treatment of Barbara.

[InfiniteCombo]

The Dark Knight Returns is the winner for me. It has Bruce battling Age, The Joker, and Superman. It had a much more epic feel to its story in my eyes. The Killing Joke had one really big plot point (Babs getting the "business") and a Joker back origin. It was wrapped up with what felt like a quickness, while I feel TDKR had many moments where the story would feel like it was at its peak and then it would just continue building more steam. People can say what they want about Frank Miller being overrated, but I still enjoy his work (and Moore's to be fair) immensely.

[dancj]

I don't know; I used to like DKR a lot, but the last time I read it it kind of left me cold-it seemed like Miller was using it as a platform for his own beliefs.
Out of curiosity, what do you think those beliefs are - I can see to polar opposite viewpoints you could get from TDKR

[Joe Rice]

Did he actually say it was bad? I thought he just regretted his treatment of Barbara.

Yes, he said it was bad. I believe he also said it was "pointless" and "about nothing." Definitely one of his worst works.

[jesse_custer]

The inferiority of The Killing Joke, in terms of Moore stories, was very clear when I read it after all the other stories in the DC Universe: Stories of Alan Moore trade. The Killing Joke was in the back of the book. Talk about a disappointing conclusion.

[robbieglenn]

TDKR for me people, why? Because of the idea of the Batman. Miller crafted Batman into a man, but so much more. He is seen as a figure of justice and heroism yet so many times in the book he is shown to be just a man, but more. I dont know, its so awesome I cant put it into words...:confused:

[Libaax]

Interesting posters prefer TDKR but in the polls it lead is only 4 votes. 25-21.

For me i enjoy TKDR most because what every poster who likes it said. It was so much more than just another Bat story for me. I have never seen Bruce Wayne and Batman that interesting. The old age, the struggle lost,the bleak future,the mutants,the will to fight back as old Batman. Epic of all epics.

Frank Miller at his best with writing and art. He is perfect to me no matter how many crappy ASBR he does or Holy Terror or lame SC copy of The Spirit.

It converted me to superhero comics and Batman comics. It wasnt near my first of either. Its my favorit comic story of alltime. Superhero or not !

[jesse_custer]

Out of curiosity, what do you think those beliefs are - I can see to polar opposite viewpoints you could get from TDKR

If anything, DKR details the conflict of law vs. justice, best ememplified by Superman vs. Batman.

Honestly, the story does not preach. I would have to hate Miller with a certain unholiness to even reach that absurd conclusion.