Lucifer/Sandman question

[DJWhamo]

More the former rather than the latter, perhaps, but something I noticed which has vexed me even to the ends of both series is their portrayal of religion(s), and aspects such as the beginning of creation, it's end, and whatnot. On the one hand, there are times where it treats the Abrahamic interpretation of things (Judeo-Islamic-Christian theology) as the "actual" way things are/happened. On the other, there are numerous other deities existing, and times where Abrahamic tradition is placed in no more than a competing role with many possibilities.

So which way is it in the comics- or is it intentionally left vague and confusing?

[dancj]

I think they basic stance is that all religions are true.

[carabas]

I think paradoxally it is also a case of all religions being wrong. About the details anyway.

[JohnRD]

I'd assume that he uses the same approach he used for the premise of American Gods, that all gods become gods because people believe they are such.

[vazel]

I'd assume that he uses the same approach he used for the premise of American Gods, that all gods become gods because people believe they are such.Yup that's the way it is. Didn't we learn this in Sandman?

[DJWhamo]

Yup that's the way it is. Didn't we learn this in Sandman?

I thought so- but have you read the end of the 'Lucifer' series? If not, I don't want to spoil it for you, so please don't read below.




Because it seems that creation starts to end when Yahweh leaves, signifying that he is the true God. Yet in the same arc, we have Fenris attempting to create Ragnarok (funny since his method of going about it involves storming the Abrahamic 'Silver City', with no other Norse characters in site), amongst other things.

[Ryan Day]

It's pretty much established in Sandman that the Judeo-Christian God is the head honcho. We know the Endless are ancient and powerful, but Dream regards Lucifer as a superior power: "He was the Creator's finest creation. ... Saving only his Creator, he is, perhaps, the most powerful being there is." When Matthew asks if Lucifer is more powerful, Dream says "Oh yes. By far."

The "lesser" gods tend to have their roles in which they're powerful. Fenris can't face Lucifer or Michael directly, nor can he fight God - his plan is to destroy the throne of God and prevent its return or replacement.

Similarly, Loki plots to set the Furies on Dream, and the Furies in turn can only hurt Dream because he broke the rules he agreed to be bound by. It's said several times in Kindly Ones that Dream could probably walk away from or stop the whole thing if he really wanted to. (Never mind the idea he hired Loki himself.)

[Flâneur]

If I remember correctly, the Endless predate this specific universe (whether it be Yahweh's, Lucifer's or Elaine's) and Yahweh is supposedly the creator of this one. That said, each of the other origin myths are true as well - the gods are in a way just dreams that have come from the Dreaming and have been made real by people (kind of like the cat thing) and so all those origin myths are all true (otherwise why is Ygradsil [sp?]so important?) because their dreams made them so.

Just because Yahweh, his two favoured sons and by extension his grand daughter, are all more powerful than the Endless in some ways, doesn't mean he's any more or less a dream or idea than the others. Just far more powerful.

[Kevin Vetter]

Just because Yahweh, his two favoured sons and by extension his grand daughter, are all more powerful than the Endless in some ways, doesn't mean he's any more or less a dream or idea than the others. Just far more powerful.

Yahweh pretty much came out and said just that in the last issue when he and lucifer had their final chat. He said that even he was created by outside forces when they were talking about the reason for lucifer hating him. So there is something else out there with yahweh and and the jin en mok being created by something, and I don't know why but I've always assumed the endless weren't yahwehs creations either and lucifer did appear to have a specific destination after he left creation but we never found out what it was.