Batman RIP confusion: Final Crisis and Trinity

[Gef]

Perhaps I'm getting muddled, but Final Crisis and Trinity feature Bruce Wayne as Batman. Both take place in the regular main DCU. Business as usual.

Final Crisis and Trinity occur after Batman RIP.

Which means Batman RIP is a load of cobblers created to get readers in? I don't know. I love Morrison's work, no problem there.

But the best person to take the mantle of Batman is - wait for it - Bruce Wayne! I'm sure a lot of people think that, and will be mighty annoyed if he is killed/vanishes and Batman is taken up by someone else.

And then we get back to Final Crisis/Trinity again anyway, which has Bruce Wayne in it, so Batman RIP isn't Batman RIP at all.

Unless there's that theory that the villain of Batman RIP is Batman himself, or Bruce Wayne, and the death of Batman is actually some kind of metaphorical death of character and rebirth into a better person (ie, he's still Bruce Wayne/Batman, but he's learned an important life lesson or something).

Well, I'm confused!

[BoSoxJay]

I think "Trinity" stands alone. It does not tie into what's going on in Superman's books or Wonder WOman's either. Take it as a weekly serial rather than actual canon plus it won't end until a year from now so just enjoy it for what it is if you want to read it. As far as "R.I.P." goes it leads up to "Final Crisis" and the two issues after"R.I.P." are directly tied up in "Final Crisis" (the last batman story Morrison has called it) so, as far as I can see, Bruce survives Jezebel Jet only to end up in a bigger trap with DArkseid and Granny if, in fact, this is not part of that anyway.

[David Walton]

There's another "final" Batman story written by Denny O'Neil where Ra's al Ghul dies and it's implied that Batman and Talia might have an ongoing relationship that ends the career of the Batman (that's one reading--Talia just tells Batman to take some time and rest, so who knows?) If I understand correctly O'Neill has said that in his mind it was the "final" Batman story, even though the series continued.

I haven't been reading Morrison's run, though I think I'll eventually pick it up in trade when I get the cash. So I have no idea if that's his take, I just wanted to throw that out there.

[Choppa]

When was it confirmed that it's Bruce in Final Crisis?

[HaroldAllnut]

From what I understand, Trinity is a stand-alone book occurring before "Batman R.I.P.," and I don't think it's been confirmed that that's Bruce beneath the cowl in Final Crisis. I'll give it a closer look soon.

[BoSoxJay]

I assumed it was Bruce just via the way he talks with Superman about Hal's innoecence in #2 and the snarky way he deals with Kraken before her true nature is revealed.

[IvCNuB4]

Both Didio and Morrison have stated several times that they aren't actually killing Bruce. It's not a literal death ....

[BoSoxJay]

When was it confirmed that it's Bruce in Final Crisis?
I just remembered that in "Requiem" BBruce is prominently featured as one of the five heroes who inherits J'onn's memories of Mars and is charged with writing the history of Mars so it is, in fact, Bruce under the mask in "Final Crisis".

[ZT4]

There's another "final" Batman story written by Denny O'Neil where Ra's al Ghul dies and it's implied that Batman and Talia might have an ongoing relationship that ends the career of the Batman (that's one reading--Talia just tells Batman to take some time and rest, so who knows?) If I understand correctly O'Neill has said that in his mind it was the "final" Batman story, even though the series continued.

Which one was this Theo? It'd make sense if the final Batman story we're about to have ties into another from O'Neil since "Son of the Demon" was a blueprint for how it all began.

Morrison's run is trying to tie in every Batman story into one cohearant exploration of a man's life and eventual breakdown because of it, so you have Batman at one point thinking he's...well...I won't spoil it for you, just pick up the run.

[Choppa]

Wouldn't Batman's comments about Hal show that he isn't Bruce?

[Slade Wilson]

Has it been said that Final Crisis is definitely after RIP?

Trying to figure out continuity gives me a headache. I try to ignore it as much as possible, because the harder you look, the more holes you find.

[Red_Knight]

FC definitely takes place after R.I.P. Morrison said R.I.P. would be followed by a 2-part story that ties directly into FC, so I assume that R.I.P. itself doesn't.

[Red_Knight]

I just remembered that in "Requiem" BBruce is prominently featured as one of the five heroes who inherits J'onn's memories of Mars and is charged with writing the history of Mars so it is, in fact, Bruce under the mask in "Final Crisis".

Really? I haven't read Requiem, so I wouldn't know. How explicit is the scene you mentioned? Is Bats actually addressed as (or shown to be) Bruce Wayne?

[BoSoxJay]

Really? I haven't read Requiem, so I wouldn't know. How explicit is the scene you mentioned? Is Bats actually addressed as (or shown to be) Bruce Wayne?



Yep, he is referred to as "Master Bruce" by Alfred and everything.

[carabas]

Really? I haven't read Requiem, so I wouldn't know. How explicit is the scene you mentioned? Is Bats actually addressed as (or shown to be) Bruce Wayne?Pretty explicit. But the real question is, does Peter Tomasi ('t was him that wrore Requim, right?) know how RIP ends, or is putting Bruce in the batsuit there another editorial oops?

[DeadXMan]

Both Didio and Morrison have stated several times that they aren't actually killing Bruce. It's not a literal death ....


Like you can believe what they say.

Dose Conner and Bart ring any bells?

[Spiffy]

Final Crisis and Trinity occur after Batman RIP.
This is dumb, if true.

Given that Final Crisis is supposed to be spread out over a period of time (and even by the same writer!), I don't see why RIP wasn't simply sandwiched in the middle of FC somewhere. Oh wait. Maybe its because Morrison was feeling all S&Mey and had to write Batman being tortured for the whole thing! Okay, so that couldn't be done.

Really, it just shows that Morrison is too ambitious, a bit too big to fit his britches. Being loose with continuity is one thing, but treating it like a rubber band is another thing entirely.

Yeah, its probably true that Bruce isn't going to die in RIP. But the alternative being suggested has centered around him not being Batman afterwards--at least for a while. Unless that's all bunk, then we've got a whole mess to sort through to integrate FC, because clearly that IS him (although since he's being tortured I suppose at least a few of us would like it to be Jason Todd instead).

Trinity is no problem at all. It's been hinted all along that its in some non-specific time. If it wasn't for the fact that we know Diana has approximately the same working conditions and supporting cast as in her current solo title, that Bruce is Batman, and that Superman is married to Lois, and that certain other DC players in the back pages are at a certain stage of their careers, it could be occurring at almost any point. Those things DO nail it down, but then again they also make it easier to perhaps treat it almost like a good, but non-continuituous story. If that ruins it for people, so be it. Saying it happens "after" something else would just be mucking it up way too much. My point is that at least they've been honest from the beginning about how loosely Trinity fits. We're not dealing with dashed expectations, like that RIP, FC and even the big Green Lantern Blackest Night story arc (that one falls on Johns, but it HAS clearly been connected to FC) are all somehow magically going to fit together like a puzzle.

[Captain Jim]

Like you can believe what they say.

Dose Conner and Bart ring any bells?

What are you implying? I don't recall any statement that Conner and Bart wouldn't die. :confused:

[joku2]

i hope that Bruce really doesnt die i really hope that they dont cancel Nightwing as well

[ZT4]

i hope that Bruce really doesnt diel

Where's a Charlie Brown "AUUUUUUUUGH" avatar when you need it?