Which Batman characters have what psychological disorders?

[Xybernauts]

We all know that the various characters in Batman comics supposedly have some type of mental disorder that explains the quirks in the characters. I know a few possible disorders and the characters they match up with, but there are a few that elude me.


Batman - sociopath, specifically Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder) and/or an obsessive compulsive with a hero complex.
Joker- psychopathology, homicidal,
Riddler - narcissism
Two-face -psychotic maybe dissociative identity disorder
Scarecrow - sadist in a position of power; intense need to self aggrandize please add to?
Catwoman - ?
Penguin - ?
Robin (Grayson)
Others

[Vidocq]

Batman is not a sociopath, for everything else you are right though and I would add Post Traumatic Stress. Earth 2 Batman apparently had Autophobia, New Earth's most likely has it as well.

The Joker has no known pathology (Unlike Nolan's Joker and Much like Hannibal Lecter) We don't know exactly what makes him tick, Who knows? He might be sane.

Scarecrow:Besides what you said, inferiority Complex.

Catwoman: Adrenaline Junkie.

Penguin: Inferiority Complex

Dick Grayson. He most likely has post Traumatic Stress and some compulsions, but he seems to be more stable than Batman. Maybe Batman's feeling of loneliness (I'm taking strictly of Earth 2 since is the purest Batman) was the diference between what he is now and ending up like Dick.

Jason Todd: Anger issues, might have sociopathic tendencies.


Cassandra Cain: I don't know exactly what. but there is defintly something f.....ed up there.


The Healthiest would be Tim Drake and Barbara Gordon (Pre Killing Joke). I always thought they don't fit with the rest of the Family.

[The Xenos]

Well, jsut to make sure people use proper terminology, here's a quick and easy listing from the DSM-IV manual of psychological disorders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes

[Sean Whitmore]

On paper, Batman does have a lot in common with a sociopath. A LOT a lot. It's actually fairly creepy.

That said, he's missing the characteristics that we most commonly associate with sociopathic behavior. He's not emotionless, as much as he puts on the act. He can definitely feel guilt and remorse for his actions. And I wouldn't say he is incapable of feeling love, romantic or familial.

As for Two Face, remember to throw in a big, heaping helping of obsessive-compulsive disorder.


SEAN

[AlistairCrane]

Catwoman - kleptomania

[Chad]

As for Two Face, remember to throw in a big, heaping helping of obsessive-compulsive disorder.SEAN

This goes double for Edward Nigma. The Riddler was once shown to be so obsessed with leaving riddles that he broke out in a sweat when attempting to do otherwise. His attempts at reformation haven't failed so much because they were disingenuous, but simply because of what he psychologically goes through when he goes too long without performing his ritualistic behaviour.

[mattx110]

On paper, Batman does have a lot in common with a sociopath. A LOT a lot. It's actually fairly creepy.

That said, he's missing the characteristics that we most commonly associate with sociopathic behavior. He's not emotionless, as much as he puts on the act. He can definitely feel guilt and remorse for his actions. And I wouldn't say he is incapable of feeling love, romantic or familial.

As for Two Face, remember to throw in a big, heaping helping of obsessive-compulsive disorder.


SEAN
There needs to be a class where they hand out comics and teach psychiatrical method through batman villians.

"See, there are misunderstandings of what it means to suffer from MPD, and a different but related set of misunderstandings when it comes to skitzophrenia, so let me put it to you this way...

Two-face has multiple personality disorder, Joker is skitzophrenic."

[Shade101]

Catwoman - kleptomania

LOL I'd say so too!

[Sean Whitmore]

There needs to be a class where they hand out comics and teach psychiatrical method through batman villians.

"See, there are misunderstandings of what it means to suffer from MPD, and a different but related set of misunderstandings when it comes to skitzophrenia, so let me put it to you this way...

Two-face has multiple personality disorder, Joker is skitzophrenic."

If they did that, I could finally pass that damn FBI exam.


SEAN

[pitbull in a skirt]

Catwoman - Does overtly feminist anti-men count?

[Sean Whitmore]

Catwoman - Does overtly feminist anti-men count?

As a specific psychological disorder? Not really.


SEAN

[mattx110]

As a specific psychological disorder? Not really.


SEAN
What's the difference between men and women?

Men think that literally having balls means you have balls... women have balls.

I'm sorta on topic... it's late, i'm insane, can't we just get along?

[frostedone]

Batman: Anti social, PTSD, has some sociopathic tendencies, some OCD, adrenaline junkie, displaced anger?

Alfred: none

Commissioner Gordon: none

Nightwing: adrenaline junkie.

Tim Drake: ?

Oracle: Self esteem issues, perfectionist.

Cassandra Cain: Adrenaline Junkie? and some anti social tendencies.

Riddler: OCD-OD (Over Drive), sociopath.

Joker: unclassifiable

Two-Face: Multiple Personality disorder, sociopath, OCD.

Catwoman: Adrenaline Junkie, kleptomaniac.

Ventriloquist (Wesker): Multiple personality disorder, sociopath (the dummy side)

Mr. Freeze: antisocial, sociopath

Ra's Al Ghul: I don't know, unless Magnificent Bastard counts. (look it up on tvtropes.org)

[Sean Whitmore]

Batman: Anti social, PTSD, has some sociopathic tendencies, some OCD, adrenaline junkie, displaced anger?

That's an interesting one I never really considered. What makes you say so?


SEAN

[mattx110]

That's an interesting one I never really considered. What makes you say so?


SEAN
There may be a correlation between the man who wants to rid the world of germs and the man who wants to rid his hometown of criminals?

[Xybernauts]

Batman is not a sociopath, for everything else you are right though and I would add Post Traumatic Stress. Earth 2 Batman apparently had Autophobia, New Earth's most likely has it as well.

The Joker has no known pathology (Unlike Nolan's Joker and Much like Hannibal Lecter) We don't know exactly what makes him tick, Who knows? He might be sane.


The Joker really does fit under the category of Psychopathology.
Below is a wiki on Psychopathology...


Psychopathology as a descriptive term...
The term psychopathology may also be used to denote behaviours or experiences which are indicative of mental illness, even if they do not constitute a formal diagnosis. For example, the presence of a hallucination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination) may be considered as a psychopathological sign, even if there are not enough symptoms present to fulfill the criteria for one of the disorders listed in the DSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disord ers).



Also, Batman does have alot in common with a sociopath with Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder). A few are questionable, but for the most part they seem to hit the mark.

Below is quoted from a Wiki...



Specifically, the dissocial personality disorder is described by the World Health Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) by the following criteria:

Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy).
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_norms), rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
Very low tolerance to frustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration) and a low threshold for discharge of aggression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression), including violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence).
Incapacity to experience guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt) and to profit from experience, particularly punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment).
Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29) for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
Persistent irritability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irritability).



narcissism

That's an interesting one I never really considered. What makes you say so?
SEAN


Below is quoted from Batman Unmasked documentary.

"Batman... suffers from a Hero complex, an obsessive compulsion to help others and right wrongs. Defined by Jung. Batman has this obsession to make sure everything's under control that the laws obeyed, and the innocent is not hurt. His obsession has lead him to cut out anything that doesn't adhere to his mission as Batman. "



Also...
Dissociative identity disorder IS multiple personality disorder. Dissociative identity disorder should not be mistaken for Dissocial Personality Disorder which were talking about before. They changed the term for it for some reason. I think MPD creates misconceptions or something.


I'm not sure if Two-face and Scarface have Dissociative identity disorder. I mean neither suffers from memory loss. Atleast I never heard of anything that suggest they do. Also, do either have three personalities? According to the definition of DID (aka MPD) you have to have atleast 3 personalities. I know for Two-Face there's Dent, Two-Face, and I believe there was a judge vigilante personality which i saw in Batman TAS; but I don't know if that character is part of official Batman canon. Wesker has only Scarface and the ventriloquist. Also, did you ever notice how Wesker is a play on the word Weaker.

Below is from a wiki...

The diagnosis requires that at least two personalities routinely take control of the individual's behavior with an associated memory loss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_loss) that goes beyond normal forgetfulness; in addition, symptoms cannot be due to substance abuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse) or medical condition. Earlier versions of the DSM named the condition multiple personality disorder (MPD), and the term is still used by the ICD-10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10).

[Vidocq]

Psychopathology isn't a disorder per se, Psychopathology means the study of mental illness, recently it has been used as a term used by Clinical psychologists for an undiagnose illness. Is a way of saying ''You are Sick'', But is not a diagnosis or the name of a mental illnes just a technical term.



Also Catwoman woudn't have Kleptomania. Not everyone who steals is a kleptomaniac, She just Steals for the adrenaline, she dosen't feel the Need to steal stuff, She just feels the need to for an Adrenaline rush.

[dandruffshampoo]

I think it's safe to say Mad Hatter is a pedophile.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think it's safe to say Mad Hatter is a pedophile.

Why is that safe to say?


SEAN

[mattx110]

Why is that safe to say?


SEAN
His punches dont hurt.

[Xybernauts]

That's an interesting one I never really considered. What makes you say so?


SEAN

Why is that safe to say?


SEAN

A newer interpretation of the character has him kidnapping any girl who is named Alice. Apperantly he suffers from alot more then just pedophilia.

obsessive-compulsive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive-compulsive_disorder)
psychotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis)
manic depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder)
homicidal
schizophrenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia)

[foxley]

Most of the rogue's gallery shows signs of Anti-Social Personality Disorder. The diagnostic criteria require three of more of the following:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

The antisocial behavior must not occur exclusively during an episode of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

[frostedone]

The Joker really does fit under the category of Psychopathology.
Below is a wiki on Psychopathology...

Specifically, the dissocial personality disorder is described by the World Health Organization by the following criteria:

1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.
2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
3. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
4. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
5. Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
6. Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
7. Persistent irritability.



Also, Batman does have alot in common with a sociopath with Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder). A few are questionable, but for the most part they seem to hit the mark.

Below is quoted from a Wiki...





narcissism




Below is quoted from Batman Unmasked documentary.

"Batman... suffers from a Hero complex, an obsessive compulsion to help others and right wrongs. Defined by Jung. Batman has this obsession to make sure everything's under control that the laws obeyed, and the innocent is not hurt. His obsession has lead him to cut out anything that doesn't adhere to his mission as Batman. "

Below is from a wiki...


Batman Does have empathy for other people though. We know that because he took in Dick Grayson after his parents murder.

Also he can learn from his mistakes and clearly experiences guilt so numbers 1 and 5 don't apply to him but the rest might.

As for why Batman has OCD, well that was summarized pretty well in the above quote.

[Sean Whitmore]

While he may certainly obsess about his mission, that isn't really symptomatic of obsessive-compulsive disorder. First of all, he doesn't have intrusive thoughts. He's always thinking about his mission, so that doesn't count. And even if you would count it, he doesn't try to dispel those thoughts, which is another symptom of OCD.


SEAN

[miss_terry]

I think it's safe to say Mad Hatter is a pedophile.

He's a pedophile ? I didn't know he came across that way. Can someone expand on this ?

And don't say "safe to say", feel free to express your opinion and be confident.

[AlistairCrane]

Also Catwoman woudn't have Kleptomania. Not everyone who steals is a kleptomaniac, She just Steals for the adrenaline, she dosen't feel the Need to steal stuff, She just feels the need to for an Adrenaline rush.

It was established in Devin Grayson's run on the book that Selina is a klepto.

[Vidocq]

While he may certainly obsess about his mission, that isn't really symptomatic of obsessive-compulsive disorder. First of all, he doesn't have intrusive thoughts. He's always thinking about his mission, so that doesn't count. And even if you would count it, he doesn't try to dispel those thoughts, which is another symptom of OCD.


SEAN
True, but he Fits with OCD's not So depressed cousin, Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder or OCPD.
Is basically OCD but the person justifies his or her behaviour and is not troubled by it.

Obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), or anankastic personality disorder, is a personality disorder that is characterized by a general psychological inflexibility, rigid conformity to rules and procedures, perfectionism, moral code, and/or excessive orderliness.

Those who are experiencing OCPD do not generally feel the need to repeatedly perform ritualistic actions - a common symptom of OCD. Instead, people with OCPD tend to stress perfectionism above all else, and feel anxious when they perceive that things are not "right." It has also been known[who?] for people with OCPD to rid themselves of excess energy when anxious or excited by twitching or doing unpredictable things.

The Symptoms


The DSM-IV-TR, a widely-used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines that for a patient to be diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, they must exhibit at least four of the following traits:

* Preoccupation with details, rules, lists, order, organization, or schedules to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost
* Showing perfectionism that interferes with task completion (e.g., is unable to complete a project because his or her own overly strict standards are not met)
* Excessive devotion to work and productivity to the exclusion of leisure activities and friendships (not accounted for by obvious economic necessity)
* Being overconscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of morality, ethics, or values (not accounted for by cultural or religious identification)
* Inability to discard worn-out or worthless objects even when they have no sentimental value
* Reluctance to delegate tasks or to work with others unless they submit to exactly his or her way of doing things
* Adopting a miserly spending style toward both self and others; money is viewed as something to be hoarded for future catastrophes
* Shows rigidity and stubbornness

It is important to note that while a person may exhibit any or all of the characteristics of a personality disorder, it is not diagnosed as a disorder unless the person has trouble leading a normal life due to these issues.

[foxley]

He's a pedophile ? I didn't know he came across that way. Can someone expand on this ?

And don't say "safe to say", feel free to express your opinion and be confident.

Some stories have shown him have an unhealthy fixation on children, to the point of kidnapping them, mind controlling them and forcing them to take part in tea parties. Depending on the writer, this is sometimes shown as having a sexual element but at other times is shown as him being childlike himself and wanting to 'protect' children from adults. (The 'Unresolved' arc in Gotham Central explores this aspect of the character.)

His dialogue in 'Arkham Asylum: A Serous House on Serious Earth' carries definite paedophiliac overtones.

[Totoro Man]

the original Two Face didn't even have a hint of multiple personality disorder. he was obsessive compulsive, though.

modern Two Face obviously has multiple personalities. and I've got to wonder, now, who started the whole "Two Face has more than one personality" approach?

I have a copy of some of the earliest Batman stories and Two Face clearly didn't START with having more than one personality.

[Vidocq]

Some stories have shown him have an unhealthy fixation on children, to the point of kidnapping them, mind controlling them and forcing them to take part in tea parties. Depending on the writer, this is sometimes shown as having a sexual element but at other times is shown as him being childlike himself and wanting to 'protect' children from adults. (The 'Unresolved' arc in Gotham Central explores this aspect of the character.)

His dialogue in 'Arkham Asylum: A Serous House on Serious Earth' carries definite paedophiliac overtones.

Well, Morrison uses a lot of Pop Psychology and masquerades it as insight. So I woudn't count anything From Arkham Asylum as good basis for a diagnosis.

I haven't Read that Gotham Central Arc though for what you say, it sounds like he had a deprived Childhood, or maybe a blonde female member of his nuclear family named Alice (Resembling the one from Wonderland) who was abused by an adult. He knew and wanted to protect her but as a child he was poiwerless so he tries to protect every Alice he sees, by kidnapping them.

I don't think I am right since it sounds like I am just vomiting psychobable with out enough knowledge. But I've never saw him as a pedophile, but rather as a powerless individual who wanted to have some control (Then again That type of behaviour can led to pedophilia on extreme cases so maybe he is or will end up as a NAMBLA honorary Member).

[Vidocq]

the original Two Face didn't even have a hint of multiple personality disorder. he was obsessive compulsive, though.

modern Two Face obviously has multiple personalities. and I've got to wonder, now, who started the whole "Two Face has more than one personality" approach?

I have a copy of some of the earliest Batman stories and Two Face clearly didn't START with having more than one personality.


It's from TAS, From either Alan Burnett or Paul Dini, I don't remember exactly who.

[Ghostman]

lol at the thought that batman even possesses half of the symptoms of dissocial dissorder...some try way to hard to make batman out to be some robot...

[Immortal]

I wouldn't go as far to say that Batman has is a psychopath or sociopath. He feels empathy and obviously has morals. Batman, while not having a disorder, definitely does have issues.

According to Morrison, Joker is "super-sane". He creates new personality depending on his environment, as stated in Arkham Asylum and depicted in Batman #663.

[Vidocq]

I wouldn't go as far to say that Batman has is a psychopath or sociopath. He feels empathy and obviously has morals. Batman, while not having a disorder, definitely does have issues.

According to Morrison, Joker is "super-sane". He creates new personality depending on his environment, as stated in Arkham Asylum and depicted in Batman #663.

I never bought That Variant o Tourette's thingy. The Joker would have had to been that way prior the His meeting with Batman as the Red Hood. So Their must've been news of a crazed individual making the chaos Joker does and Batman must have faced him before.

That sort of ties to lovers and Madmen but still, meh.

I like to think of him as someone who is just too damn cynical. Too him Life is a Joke and Death is the punchline.

This would mean that to him Life is worthless because it dosen't matter what we do we will die and become Worm food. So He is deliveriting the Punchline by showing how carelessly he kills people who at the end of the day the world wont remember, but they will remember The one who told the Joke.

[Xybernauts]

I wouldn't go as far to say that Batman has is a psychopath or sociopath. He feels empathy and obviously has morals. Batman, while not having a disorder, definitely does have issues.

According to Morrison, Joker is "super-sane". He creates new personality depending on his environment, as stated in Arkham Asylum and depicted in Batman #663.

I would. I don't think it makes him any less admirable.


1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.

I know some people might not agree with me, but I think his ability to go around beating up on thugs is a clear indicator of his lack of empathy. It's one thing when he's being attacked and his life is threatened; but I think it's an entirely different thing to beat up on someone for info. Not everyone can do that and he kind of makes it look (emotionally) easy which in real life can be a scary thing. We allow batman that kind of discretion because he's a fictional character, but could you imagine someone like that in real life; beating up on anyone 'he' thinks is a criminal.

I know someone will say there just thugs who deserve it, but thugs are people too. I know it's technically necessary in the context of the story, but it still takes a unique type of individual to do that on a regular basis.

There's also how he treats Robin at times. I have no specific examples though.

[Vidocq]

I would. I don't think it makes him any less admirable.


1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.

I know some people might not agree with me, but I think his ability to go around beating up on thugs is a clear indicator of his lack of empathy. It's one thing when he's being attacked and his life is threatened; but I think it's an entirely different thing to beat up on someone for info. Not everyone can do that and he kind of makes it look (emotionally) easy which in real life can be a scary thing. We allow batman that kind of discretion because he's a fictional character, but could you imagine someone like that in real life; beating up on anyone 'he' thinks is a criminal.

I know someone will say there just thugs who deserve it, but thugs are people too. I know it's technically necessary in the context of the story, but it still takes a unique type of individual to do that on a regular basis.

There's also how he treats Robin at times. I have no specific examples though.

First Calling those thugs people is Stretching the meaning of the word, Batman dosen't beat up anyone who he thinks is a criminal. We are talking Rapsits, Drug Dealers, Murders, Psychos and Saddists. Which he gets by either an investigation or cathcing them on the act.

Second, Even if your interpretation of Batman as having no empathy is accurate, Psychopaty, like schizophrenia, is not taken as lightly as to look for just one symptom. And you are ignoring a LOAD of Symptoms.


Symptoms

Common characteristics of those with psychopathy are:

* Grandiose sense of self-worth
* Superficial charm
* Criminal versatility
* Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
* Impulse control problems
* Irresponsibility
* Inability to tolerate boredom
* Pathological narcissism
* Pathological lying
* Shallow affect
* Deceitfulness/manipulativeness
* Aggressive or violent tendencies, repeated physical fights or assaults on others
* Lack of empathy
* Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizes having hurt or mistreated others
* A sense of extreme entitlement
* Lack of or diminished levels of anxiety/nervousness and other emotions
* Promiscuous sexual behavior, sexually deviant lifestyle
* Poor judgment, failure to learn from experience
* Lack of personal insight
* Failure to follow any life plan
* Abuse of drugs including alcohol


Now you can see that while some do apply to him he dosen't qualify to much of the symptoms.

He isn't a Psychopath, mabe has Antisocial personality disorder, but definitly not psychopathy.

[Xybernauts]

First Calling those thugs people is Stretching the meaning of the word, Batman dosen't beat up anyone who he thinks is a criminal. We are talking Rapsits, Drug Dealers, Murders, Psychos and Saddists. Which he gets by either an investigation or cathcing them on the act.

Second, Even if your interpretation of Batman as having no empathy is accurate, Psychopaty, like schizophrenia, is not taken as lightly as to look for just one symptom. And you are ignoring a LOAD of Symptoms.




Now you can see that while some do apply to him he dosen't qualify to much of the symptoms.

He isn't a Psychopath, mabe has Antisocial personality disorder, but definitly not psychopathy.


I never even said he was a psychopath. Actually, I agree; Batman isn't a psychopath. I don't even think he has Antisocial personality disorder. I said he was a 'sociopath' specifically with Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder).



Also, Batman does have alot in common with a sociopath with Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder). A few are questionable, but for the most part they seem to hit the mark.

Below is quoted from a Wiki...


Quote:

Specifically, the dissocial personality disorder is described by the World Health Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) by the following criteria:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy).
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_norms), rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
Very low tolerance to frustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration) and a low threshold for discharge of aggression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression), including violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence).
Incapacity to experience guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt) and to profit from experience, particularly punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment).
Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_%28psychology%29) for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
Persistent irritability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irritability).


I don't completely agree with the idea that he has no empathy either; I notice he has shown romantic emotions to various lovers. But sometimes in some interpretations of Batman it seems like he really is a callous playboy out for the conquest and he simply uses his romantic side to charm the ladies. Of course it's also possible he really is a loving romantic person, which is what I prefer to believe, personally, but I just think we shouldn't bar the possibility he has this disorder simply because he's 'Batman'.

You must admit he comes pretty close to fitting the description for Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder).

[Monty_Cristo]

I would. I don't think it makes him any less admirable.


1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.

I know some people might not agree with me, but I think his ability to go around beating up on thugs is a clear indicator of his lack of empathy. It's one thing when he's being attacked and his life is threatened; but I think it's an entirely different thing to beat up on someone for info. Not everyone can do that and he kind of makes it look (emotionally) easy which in real life can be a scary thing. We allow batman that kind of discretion because he's a fictional character, but could you imagine someone like that in real life; beating up on anyone 'he' thinks is a criminal.

I know someone will say there just thugs who deserve it, but thugs are people too. I know it's technically necessary in the context of the story, but it still takes a unique type of individual to do that on a regular basis.

There's also how he treats Robin at times. I have no specific examples though.

him taking in Robin, in the first place, is a sign of empathy.

[pariah-1972]

Is kleptomania considered a psychological disorder?

[Vidocq]

I think Batman fits more with Antisocial personality disorder.

Three or more of the following are required:[1]

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.


But he does fit Dissocial personality disorder pretty well.





And Yes Kleptomania is considered a Psychological disorder. Is when people can't resist the impulse to steal. (I don't buy that Selina is a Kleptomaniac)

[pariah-1972]

I think Batman fits more with Antisocial personality disorder.



But he does fit Dissocial personality disorder pretty well.





And Yes Kleptomania is considered a Psychological disorder. Is when people can't resist the impulse to steal. (I don't buy that Selina is a Kleptomaniac)Well has she shown the ability to not steal?

[Vidocq]

Well has she shown the ability to not steal?

Kleptomania would suggest Stealing for no motivation whatsoever.

Has she ever stolen from Poor people, the candy from a Baby or grabbed something from Holly's house?

[Xybernauts]

him taking in Robin, in the first place, is a sign of empathy.

Yeah, but only to a degree. I mean he took him in, but then he made him into his sidekick against crime. He introduced him to a dark underworld, and he was a kid. Most parents try and shelter there children from such harshness of a cold hard world at such an early age.

Sometimes I get the impression Batman didn't adopt Dick out of sympathy. I get the impression Dick was recruited by Batman, he just didn't realize it. either way it shows a distinct lack of empathy.

I think Batman fits more with Antisocial personality disorder.

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

But he does fit Dissocial personality disorder pretty well.



He does conform to Antisocial personality disorder for the most part, except that I can't see anything that suggests that he fails to plan ahead. In fact it's just the opposite. He meticulously plans ahead. He also doesn't come across as irresponsible in terms of work or financial obligations. He pretends he's irresponsible, but he's actually fiscally sound and he is a very hard worker. I prefer to think he's dissocial.

[Monty_Cristo]

Yeah, but only to a degree. I mean he took him in, but then he made him into his sidekick against crime. He introduced him to a dark underworld, and he was a kid. Most parents try and shelter there children from such harshness of a cold hard world at such an early age.

but Batman sees the world as a dangerous place. he prepared Robin out of love. he probably wishs that he, himself, had been prepared for it before his own parents were slain.

Sometimes I get the impression Batman didn't adopt Dick out of sympathy. I get the impression Dick was recruited by Batman, he just didn't realize it. either way it shows a distinct lack of empathy.

it'd be a lack of empathy for anyone besides Bruce. but consider that his own childhood was similar to the one he gave Robin. Batman obviously advocates his own life as a crimefighter. so why wouldn't he raise Dick the same way? Bruce, because of his own experience, thinks this is what Dick needed; to deal with his parents being murdered.

[Vidocq]

He does conform to Antisocial personality disorder for the most part, except that I can't see anything that suggests that he fails to plan ahead. In fact it's just the opposite. He meticulously plans ahead. He also doesn't come across as irresponsible in terms of work or financial obligations. He pretends he's irresponsible, but he's actually fiscally sound and he is a very hard worker. I prefer to think he's dissocial.

What about Robin(s)? is not like A Kid will ever or should ever be involved in a murder investigation and After 2 dead kids (Yeah I know they both came back but humour me for a minute), He knows the risks perfectly. That's really irresponsable.

He does plan ahead though. But Dissocial also has Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment and Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict. Both of which Batman lacks.

Good idea for a thread By the way.

[nepenthes]

I think it's crazy and pointless to try to match any of these characters to known disorders. Most of them should have new disorders named after them ha ha.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's almost criminal that this thread is 4 pages deep and no-one has yet linked to this superb article by the therapist Scott Summers:

http://anbat.toonzone.net/arkham/index.html

[pariah-1972]

I think it's crazy and pointless to try to match any of these characters to known disorders. Most of them should have new disorders named after them ha ha.I wonder what having a plant fetish is called?

[Vidocq]

I wonder what having a plant fetish is called?

Antholagnia.

[miss_terry]

Everyone in the Bat World has psychological problems. If they don't then they don't belong in the Bat World.

The things of it is, you have varying levels of psychopathic behavior. Now how would you characterize those levels?

[Lew Moxon]

I readily admit I lack the qualifications to do this in any concrete manner, but I am under the impression that some versions of Bruce Wayne seem to suggest personality traits which bear some resemblances to symptoms of a disorder referred to as Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. Specifically Wayne sometimes appears to be something of a perfectionist, lacking in flexibility, an inability to either compromise or delegate tasks unless his delegates do exactly what he desires. Of course, the issue here is how much of Wayne's inflexibility is just the nature of being a superhero, and how much of it can be legitimately argued to be signs of a disorder.

However, if I had to argue that Wayne had a disorder, or disorders plural, I'd say OCPD and possibly PTSD

I read a very good argument against Wayne having PTSD. After all, if Wayne did suffer from the disorder and the trauma was naturally the murder of his parents; how would he be able, night after night, to expose himself to gunfire and criminals? Certainly what Batman does, even in the fantastic world he inhabits, would be quite likely for someone with PTSD to lead to very distressing memories and flashbacks. From the little I know of the disorder, I believe that sufferers tend to avoid anything that might remind them of the trauma. In short, I'm not entirely sure that a Wayne who suffered from post traumatic stress disorder could be Batman in the first place.

[frostedone]

Ah reviving one of the most interesting threads I see.

Well it has been 2 years and there has been some interesting developments since 2008 in the bat-world.

Riddler - OCD, narcissism.

Two-Face - Multiple Personality Disorder, Psychopath, OCD, Schizophrenia.

Catwoman - Adrenalin Junkie possible PTSD from giving up her baby.

Harley Quinn - She can feel remorse and guilt as shown in GCS, so she is not a full blown Psychopath or Sociopath. She may have ADHD and schizophrenia. OCD too in that she is obsessed with Joker.

Poison Ivy - Once again she is a murderer but clearly can form friendships and genuinely loves/cares for Harley and even Selina. She has some anger issues though.

Penguin - massive inferiority complex. He seemed to love that woman from his issue of Joker's Asylum, so he IS capable of love, but he still kills people without remorse so he has psychopathic tendencies.

Scarecrow - Inferiority complex, masochist, sociopath, power issues.

Ra's Al Ghul - God complex

Dick - He is a very well rounded and healthy person.

Bruce - Moderate PTSD, antisocial, anger issues, fits some sociopathic criteria, but can still feel love, remorse, guilt, and he learns from his mistakes, commitment issues, hero complex.

Cassandra - doesn't seem to have any PTSD. If anything she would be a bit introverted which is not really a mental illness. She does have some parent issues though.

Damian - Anger issues, parental issues, massively inflated ego the size of a small country.

Jason - severe anger issues, power complex, parent issues, PTSD, sociopath.

Barbara - perfectionist other then that she is fine.

Stephanie - she might have some inferiority complexes due to how Bruce treated her as both Spoiler and Robin. She seems to be a fine Batgirl though.

Joker - Schizophrenia, Massive Anger issues, Multiple Personality Disorder (he reinvents himself), psychopath, sociopath, control issues. Not really anti social though. I don't buy his "super sanity" crap.

Superman - Extreme loneliness and abandonment issues. After War of the Supermen, his whole planet was destroyed TWICE, and his adopted home world now sees him as an outsider and his father in law really made his life terrible. Earth sees him as an outsider and New Krypton didn't treat him all that great either.

[Lew Moxon]

Ah reviving one of the most interesting threads I see.

Harley Quinn - She can feel remorse and guilt as shown in GCS, so she is not a full blown Psychopath or Sociopath. She may have ADHD and schizophrenia. OCD too in that she is obsessed with Joker.



I think there's a distinct difference between Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Romantic Obsession. I would say that Harleen shows some signs of suffering from Dependent Personality Disorder, but I'm not sure if that would be an entirely accurate diagnosis. I'm not sure I buy her as a Schizophrenic. Indeed, her primary issue seems to be the mental consequences of an romantic obsession more than anything else.


Scarecrow - Inferiority complex, masochist, sociopath, power issues.


Funny, I've always seen him as more of a sadist than a Masochist, but I could be wrong about that.


Damian - Anger issues, parental issues, massively inflated ego the size of a small country.



Wouldn't that mark him out as a narcissist? True, Damian is a bit young so part of it is just a reaction to his age. But he does seem to display some signs of NPD, as you suggest here by mentioning his "massively inflated ego" Damian also seems to suffer from entitlement issues at times. Again he's quite young, but if he acted the same way at age 23 he'd probably be a certified clinical narcissist.


Joker - Schizophrenia,Massive Anger issues, Multiple Personality Disorder (he reinvents himself), psychopath, sociopath, control issues. Not really anti social though. I don't buy his "super sanity" crap.


I remember reading a reprint of a very old comic in which the Joker was explicitly stated to have a form of schizophrenia. Specifically I think the comic stated that the Joker essentially had Disorganized schizophrenia. They didn't call it that, because like I said the comic was written a long time ago, so they went with an older name "Hebephrenia" I admit it's been a couple years since I've read it, so I might be remembering it wrong. Still, in a brief search some elements of the disorder do seem to fit him.

This type is characterized by prominent disorganized behavior and speech (see formal thought disorder) including schizophasia, and flat or inappropriate emotion and affect.

Unlike the paranoid subtype of schizophrenia, delusions and hallucinations are not the most prominent feature[4][5], although fragmentary delusions and hallucinations may be present.

The emotional responses of people diagnosed with this subtype can often seem strange or inappropriate to the situation. Inappropriate facial responses may be common and behavior is sometimes described as 'silly', such as inappropriate laughter.


The first part is very difficult to argue in the Joker's case. He doesn't seem to be suffering from a thought disorder. I could be wrong about that. But if he is suffering from schizophrenia, then the other two elements here seem to suggest it'd be of the disorganized type. While he is sometimes shown to have delusions and hallucinations, they do seem to be fragmentary and transient. And he does behave, on occasion in an emotionally inappropriate and arguably silly manner.

Still, in most cases, the Joker seems to be a straight up hollywood sociopath. It really depends on the writer. Incidentally I'm not sure what the difference between saying someone is a sociopath and saying he suffers from antisocial personality disorder actually is. Probably a demonstration of my own ignorance.

[Tri_To]

I would not agree with your psychological anaylsis of all the Batman characters in my opinon the characters in the batman universe all represent a specific type of crime in Gotham city, and the character sets that would commit them.

-Batman: I think Batman has almost an identical personality to the Joker the only difference is Batman takes things a lot more seriously and you would have to anaylze when each character began to develop their persona's Batman's Occured when he was much younger I think the book notes it as happening at the age of about ten or twelve (I am referring to the event that I believe may have caused it to occur "Bruce Wayne's Parent's being Murdered") Joker's persona might have developed when he was much older and he was probably more experienced about people and how they treat other. I am pretty sure these characters are based on an actual person, Bob Kane and Bill Finger may have known or are really close to. Since Bob Kane and Bill Finger are both from New York City Born, & raised it would only make sense that Gotham is New York City. Detective Comics began the Character series in 1939 if Batman was based on a real person he might have been from Australia (batarangs) lol, he might have also been a Detective or a Police Officer in the NYPD that worked under Police Commissoner Grover A. Whalen who bears a strong resembelance to Jim Gordon. Alfred an English British Butler who worked for the Royal British Family and is sometimes referred to as an Intelligence Agent in the book is probably a real life person who existed and might have mentored this Detective and he is in a way responsible for helping to nurture and create the Batman. All comic book writers and artist portray these characters differently but the Joker's Personality would never actually kill anyone himself but would think that it was funny if other people got killed and commited the events that he had orchestrated in Gotham. Joker has repressed his feelings to the point that he has learned to laugh at his pain, but at the same time has lost his faith in humanity. Batman still believes in people and is absolutely rigid in his morales he has no idea what he is feels only for some reason that he wants to protect his city and do the right thing. I think the Joker really understands the Batman's Persona and is a little bit impressed by it and almost in a state of disbelief and wants to prove that Batman is capable of evil by showing him time and time again humanitities darker side. A character like the Batman would probably think Joker was really funny and I bet he laughs his ass off in the Batcave after he returns him to arkham asylum. All the comic book characters have a personality trait in common amoung them and that is narcissim they differ in their morales, beliefs, and opinons. Batman's actions have drawn a lot of these characters in to Gotham he draws attention to himself and they in turn would like to compete for that attention and prove to Gotham that they can defeat their Dark Knight. Batman's life is full of conflict because of his need to put on a Batsuit while running around Gotham beating criminals to a pulp the villians all focus on him and since he has taken on a self righteous mantle they often try to work together to defeat him his ability to defeat his enemies will result in a life of conflict until he stops being the Batman, he is killed, or he is defeated publicly.
The characters and the crimes they represent:

The following are the Vilians that live in Gotham and the crimes they may represent, and engage in.

-Riddler: Con-Artist.

-Penguin: White collar crime/Corporate Crime.

- Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane/psychiatrist/psychologist: Drug Trafficking.

-Cat-Woman: Burgulary

-Poison Ivy: Prostitution/Eco Terroist extremist/

-Two Face: Political/Judicial Corruption.

-Mr Freeze: Contract Killing/Murder

-Bane: Steroid Trafficking.

That's my opinon anyways the book and it's characters all mean something else to everyone and whoever created Gotham and it's characters are the only people that can truly say what it was that inspired them and what the characters mean to them.

[MikhailJones]

We all know that the various characters in Batman comics supposedly have some type of mental disorder that explains the quirks in the characters. I know a few possible disorders and the characters they match up with, but there are a few that elude me.


Batman - sociopath, specifically Dissocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder) and/or an obsessive compulsive with a hero complex.
Joker- psychopathology, homicidal,
Riddler - narcissism
Two-face -psychotic maybe dissociative identity disorder
Scarecrow - sadist in a position of power; intense need to self aggrandize please add to?
Catwoman - ?
Penguin - ?
Robin (Grayson)
Others


This question reminds me of Philip K. Dick's "Clans Of The Alphane Moon" - each character was an avatar of a particular psychological disorder.

[frostedone]

-Riddler: Con-Artist.

-Penguin: White collar crime/Corporate Crime.

- Scarecrow/Edward Crane/psychiatrist/psychologist: Narcotics. specifically cocaine: representing the fear element of his powerful Hallucinogen.

-Cat-Woman: Burgulary/Thief.

-Poison Ivy: Prostitution/Eco Terroist extremist/Narcotic association: Marijuana

-Two Face: Political/Judicial Corruption.

-Mr Freeze: Contract Killing/Murder

-Bane: Narcotic. Steroid.


Interesting opinions and welcome to the forum Tri to!

I do disagree with some of your choices. Mostly the drug ones.

Yeah Scarecrow does use Hallucinogens, but not narcotics.

Bane uses steroids, but not narcotics.

I also don't see Ivy using any narcotics especially marijuana, since that would involve killing a plant. She would be against that. Also she doesn't prostitute herself.

[Tri_To]

lol Poison Ivy using marijuana...
After looking again I have to agree. and redo the anyasis of the charcters I only meant that the Characters represent certain crimes that may be commited in Gotham and the elements involved in the crimes. not that they use the actual narcotics opps miscommunicated myself there tee hee....

I noticed that most of the charcters I chose were all created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane other than the two that you singled out Bane and Poison Ivy, I may be wrong about what those characters meant to the creator. I missed one important character that was left out that was created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane and that was Dr. Hugo Strange and that is because I had never heard of him. He may be the villian that represents the crime of Drug trafficking and his fear inducing powder is reminiscent of something. I believe that Bill Finger and Bob Kane killed Dr. Hugo Strange early on because they wanted to reinvent the character and introduced him as the Scarecrow, I used the wrong name as well Jonathan Crane is his actual alter ego lol.

[miss_terry]

This is one of the most interesting threads in the Bat-verse. In fact every single character in the Bat-verse has a psychological problem. It all depends on the level of intensity of the psych problem. Or perhaps I should call it disorder.

[whitesycamore]

Harley Quinn - She can feel remorse and guilt as shown in GCS, so she is not a full blown Psychopath or Sociopath. She may have ADHD and schizophrenia. OCD too in that she is obsessed with Joker.


Eh... I don't see how Harley is schizophrenic. ADHD is a definite possibility, but her only obsession is with the Joker, she doesn't have an obsessive nature in general. Hybristophillia is the name for a sexual/romantic obsession with evil people, but since Joker is the only evil person she's ever loved it might not be fair to say she has that.


Jason - severe anger issues, power complex, parent issues, PTSD, sociopath.


I'd agree with all of these, except sociopathy. Jason does seem to feel genuine empathy towards others, as seen in his interactions with his mother, Scarlet, Talia, Gloria Swanson, etc.


Joker - Schizophrenia, Massive Anger issues, Multiple Personality Disorder (he reinvents himself), psychopath, sociopath, control issues. Not really anti social though. I don't buy his "super sanity" crap.


Again, I don't see how Joker could be schizophrenic and manage to pull off his elaborate plots. One of the defining features of schizophrenia is thought disorder, which can make it difficult to write a coherent letter let alone plan major crimes. I always saw Joker as someone with organic brain damage caused by his chemical poisoning. In fact at one time German psychiatrists described a condition they called "the joking disease" (caused by damage to the frontal lobes) which describes the Joker's behaviour very well. It might be an archaic term by now though, seeing as brain imaging technology is much more precise and we know a lot more about neurological functions.

[Tri_To]

This is one of the most interesting threads in the Bat-verse. In fact every single character in the Bat-verse has a psychological problem. It all depends on the level of intensity of the psych problem. Or perhaps I should call it disorder.

Yes I agree every single character that exists in the Batverse has a psychological problem.

[Tri_To]

Eh... I don't see how Harley is schizophrenic. ADHD is a definite possibility, but her only obsession is with the Joker, she doesn't have an obsessive nature in general. Hybristophillia is the name for a sexual/romantic obsession with evil people, but since Joker is the only evil person she's ever loved it might not be fair to say she has that.



I'd agree with all of these, except sociopathy. Jason does seem to feel genuine empathy towards others, as seen in his interactions with his mother, Scarlet, Talia, Gloria Swanson, etc.



Again, I don't see how Joker could be schizophrenic and manage to pull off his elaborate plots. One of the defining features of schizophrenia is thought disorder, which can make it difficult to write a coherent letter let alone plan major crimes. I always saw Joker as someone with organic brain damage caused by his chemical poisoning. In fact at one time German psychiatrists described a condition they called "the joking disease" (caused by damage to the frontal lobes) which describes the Joker's behaviour very well. It might be an archaic term by now though, seeing as brain imaging technology is much more precise and we know a lot more about neurological functions.

Yes....indeed there is something wrong with you if someone dies and you laugh ass off............lol

[Lew Moxon]

Okay, I was thinking about Jack Napier and Heath Ledger's Joker

Jack Napier is pretty easy to diagnose. He's a narcissist. When we first see him, he's certainly haughty and arrogant. He views himself as Grissom's indispensable man. "He's a tired old man-he can't run this city without me." He seems to view himself as the heir apparent to Grissom's Syndicate, which indicates a degree of entitlement. His conversation with Grissom's girlfriend seems to indicate that Jack Napier lacks empathy And he's relationship with "Bob" seems to be exploitative and manipulative. So even in the beginning, he's showing four symptoms of suffering from the disorder. Additionally he stares at his own reflection, admiring his own appearance. In fact, I really think that's what drives Napier over the edge.

The Chemical Plant fiasco contained two narcissistic hits. The first of which was that Napier really wasn't anywhere near as important to Grissom as he thought he was, and the second being the disfiguring effect of the acid. Subsequently his actions seem to be either the product of narcissistic or genuine rage, such as the murder of Boss Grissom and the other mobsters, or designed to bring attention to himself and thereby reestablish his original grandiose sense of self worth. This is a Joker who wants his, "face on the one dollar bill." And who laments the fact that the press seems to be paying more attention to the Batman than to him. His product tampering seems to fit this pattern. And finally the Joker throws a parade where's he's the central float.

His lack of empathy and sense of self importance is indicated by the line. "And now comes the part where I relieve you the little people of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But, like my plastic surgeon always said, if you've gotta go, go with a smile."


Of course, we get an on screen diagnosis as well. We are told that he committed assault with a deadly weapon at age 15, and that he suffers from mood swings. That along with the desire for attention indicates that he's suffering from Histrionic Personality Disorder as well as NPD.



Ledger's Joker is a bit harder to diagnose. Simply because we don't really know as much about his origins. We see Jack Napier, we never see Pre-scarring Ledger Joker. Although it would appear that whatever transformed the man into the Joker occurred around the time of Batman Begins, since he first appears of screen at the end of that movie. And he clearly wasn't at Arkham at any point in the past, since they don't have his fingerprints. And they do have the fingerprints of Arkham inmates on file, and shown by the whole "Melvin White" situation.

But in so far as he can diagnosed at all, I think Ledger's Joker is a sociopath.

He's certainly consistently deceitful. He shows absolutely no remorse for what he does, he does show a reckless disregard for the safety of himself and others, he essentially tries to get Batman and Harvey Dent to kill him to make a nihilistic point. He certainly doesn't conform to societal norms, he's a guy wearing clown makeup and killing people. He does show signs of irritability and aggressiveness, he does get into fights and he insults the leaders of organized crime in Gotham City. He probably isn't entirely irresponsible, as he asserts that he's "A man of my word." and he seems to actually carry out what he promises in those circumstances. He does kill people while Batman refuses to turn himself in, and he does bring Lau to the dock. I'm not sure he's impulsive either. Regardless of what he tells Dent, everything he does seems planned out in advance.

Sure, for a full diagnosis you'd probably need proof that Ledger Joker suffered from a conduct disorder before age 15, but we can't possibly know that. We know literally nothing about his life before he emerges at the end of Batman Begins. We don't even see him onscreen until the Dark Knight.

I think there's some indication of some sort of trauma in his life. I'm not talking about his constant "How I got my scars speech" because that has more to do with his deceitfulness than his origins. My guess is that the scars were self inflicted, in fact I remember hearing before the film was released that the wounds were self inflicted when the Joker "realized he was going insane." Additionally they may have been inflicted as a natural consequence of the Joker's disregard for his own safety.

But again, I'm not talking about the scars, I'm talking about the way he reacts when he's called a freak by Gambles men. He pauses, repeats the word angrily and generally loses his place. He doesn't like being called a freak, and that may indicate that in the past he was indeed called a freak during the course of some kind of harassment. Then again, he doesn't seem to mind the term when he's talking with Batman. He tells him that he's, "A Freak-Like me." Which may undermine the notion that the term bothers Ledger-Joker.

I'm not sure how that effects what he does. But it may be that the Joker's nihilistic philosophy is a direct product of his Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

[cosmicjoke]

Okay, I was thinking about Jack Napier and Heath Ledger's Joker

Jack Napier is pretty easy to diagnose. He's a narcissist. When we first see him, he's certainly haughty and arrogant. He views himself as Grissom's indispensable man. "He's a tired old man-he can't run this city without me." He seems to view himself as the heir apparent to Grissom's Syndicate, which indicates a degree of entitlement. His conversation with Grissom's girlfriend seems to indicate that Jack Napier lacks empathy And he's relationship with "Bob" seems to be exploitative and manipulative. So even in the beginning, he's showing four symptoms of suffering from the disorder. Additionally he stares at his own reflection, admiring his own appearance. In fact, I really think that's what drives Napier over the edge.

The Chemical Plant fiasco contained two narcissistic hits. The first of which was that Napier really wasn't anywhere near as important to Grissom as he thought he was, and the second being the disfiguring effect of the acid. Subsequently his actions seem to be either the product of narcissistic or genuine rage, such as the murder of Boss Grissom and the other mobsters, or designed to bring attention to himself and thereby reestablish his original grandiose sense of self worth. This is a Joker who wants his, "face on the one dollar bill." And who laments the fact that the press seems to be paying more attention to the Batman than to him. His product tampering seems to fit this pattern. And finally the Joker throws a parade where's he's the central float.

His lack of empathy and sense of self importance is indicated by the line. "And now comes the part where I relieve you the little people of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But, like my plastic surgeon always said, if you've gotta go, go with a smile."


Of course, we get an on screen diagnosis as well. We are told that he committed assault with a deadly weapon at age 15, and that he suffers from mood swings. That along with the desire for attention indicates that he's suffering from Histrionic Personality Disorder as well as NPD.



Ledger's Joker is a bit harder to diagnose. Simply because we don't really know as much about his origins. We see Jack Napier, we never see Pre-scarring Ledger Joker. Although it would appear that whatever transformed the man into the Joker occurred around the time of Batman Begins, since he first appears of screen at the end of that movie. And he clearly wasn't at Arkham at any point in the past, since they don't have his fingerprints. And they do have the fingerprints of Arkham inmates on file, and shown by the whole "Melvin White" situation.

But in so far as he can diagnosed at all, I think Ledger's Joker is a sociopath.

He's certainly consistently deceitful. He shows absolutely no remorse for what he does, he does show a reckless disregard for the safety of himself and others, he essentially tries to get Batman and Harvey Dent to kill him to make a nihilistic point. He certainly doesn't conform to societal norms, he's a guy wearing clown makeup and killing people. He does show signs of irritability and aggressiveness, he does get into fights and he insults the leaders of organized crime in Gotham City. He probably isn't entirely irresponsible, as he asserts that he's "A man of my word." and he seems to actually carry out what he promises in those circumstances. He does kill people while Batman refuses to turn himself in, and he does bring Lau to the dock. I'm not sure he's impulsive either. Regardless of what he tells Dent, everything he does seems planned out in advance.

Sure, for a full diagnosis you'd probably need proof that Ledger Joker suffered from a conduct disorder before age 15, but we can't possibly know that. We know literally nothing about his life before he emerges at the end of Batman Begins. We don't even see him onscreen until the Dark Knight.

I think there's some indication of some sort of trauma in his life. I'm not talking about his constant "How I got my scars speech" because that has more to do with his deceitfulness than his origins. My guess is that the scars were self inflicted, in fact I remember hearing before the film was released that the wounds were self inflicted when the Joker "realized he was going insane." Additionally they may have been inflicted as a natural consequence of the Joker's disregard for his own safety.

But again, I'm not talking about the scars, I'm talking about the way he reacts when he's called a freak by Gambles men. He pauses, repeats the word angrily and generally loses his place. He doesn't like being called a freak, and that may indicate that in the past he was indeed called a freak during the course of some kind of harassment. Then again, he doesn't seem to mind the term when he's talking with Batman. He tells him that he's, "A Freak-Like me." Which may undermine the notion that the term bothers Ledger-Joker.

I'm not sure how that effects what he does. But it may be that the Joker's nihilistic philosophy is a direct product of his Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

That's pretty awesome dude. Seems about right to me, and very perceptive.

[Lew Moxon]

I know that I'm continuing to harp on possible ideas for the most notoriously undiagnosable lunatic in Gotham City, but I was wondering if we go by the origin seen in "The Killing Joke" what actually happened, in psychological terms to the the struggling comedian seen in those flashbacks?

Or does the book suggest that the comedian was always disturbed to a certain extent, and the tragedy of Jeanie's death and his disfigurement just made everything worse? If so, what is a plausible disorder in this case?

[Free-Man]

I know that I'm continuing to harp on possible ideas for the most notoriously undiagnosable lunatic in Gotham City, but I was wondering if we go by the origin seen in "The Killing Joke" what actually happened, in psychological terms to the the struggling comedian seen in those flashbacks?

Or does the book suggest that the comedian was always disturbed to a certain extent, and the tragedy of Jeanie's death and his disfigurement just made everything worse? If so, what is a plausible disorder in this case?

I was under the impression that prior to falling into the chemicals, he was a relatively normal person.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I had thought that was sorta the point of the "One Bad Day" scenario he was trying to put Gordon through. In one day, he crippled and took nude photos of Gordon's child, and then forced him to look at those pictures amidst bouts of torture. I think that was meant to more or less parralel the Joker's own "bad day" where he lost his wife and unborn child, only to become hideously disfigured, thus pushing him over the edge.

Now the more recent take on his origin in the Brave and the Bold with the Atom was very interesting. No mention of his wife or child, or indeed even the accident. Here, we just see the Joker as a maniac since childhood. He starts off by telling a childhood friend that it's "the world" that's crazy, not him. He's the only normal one, it's the rest of the world that's messed up. We see him comitting heinous acts of violence upon innocent people, which starts with him brutally gunning down an innocent store clerk and then smiling into the store's security camera, and ultimately dropping a taped-up man off of a building after giving him the same speech about how crazy the world is, and how he's again, the only sane person in it.

[Free-Man]

Now what, if any, disorder might Kate Kane have.

After losing her mother and sister, and then getting thrown out of school for being gay, Rucka shows her falling into a downward spiral of drinking, partying, and all sorts of other things until she meets Batman and finds a sense of purpose.

[jgiannantoni05]

Joker: Antisocial Personality Disorder and/or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[Darque_Angel]

I don't know that Kate really has any disorder. I mean lots of people slip into self destructive behavior because they can't deal with a tragedy in their life.

I've always wondered if Huntress wasn't at least a little Counterphobic. Counterphobia is a condition that compels you to seek out the things that frighten you.

[miss_terry]

First off, I love that avatar Darque Angel.

Now, I understand that every single hero and villain in the Bat verse has a psychological problem. However, does ALFRED have a psychological problem from any of the time you've read Batman?

The only one is on All Star Batman and Robin, but that's not canon right?

[RubberLotus]

First off, I love that avatar Darque Angel.

Now, I understand that every single hero and villain in the Bat verse has a psychological problem. However, does ALFRED have a psychological problem from any of the time you've read Batman?

The only one is on All Star Batman and Robin, but that's not canon right?

He shows an unbending loyalty to a guy that regularly dresses up like a bat and beats up gunmen with his bare fists. And actually lets said guy take in more than three little helpers dressed in shoot-me red and green. Even after one of them died horribly.

That has to count for something, right?

Here's some more:

Gordon - Dedication to "the law" to the point where he refuses to shoot Joker in the head even when he's just killed his wife and he has every reason to believe the guy has some hidden weapon on him.

Tweedledee & Tweedledum - Insist on dressing in bowler hats (they went out of style, what, forty years ago?) and naming themselves after guys from a children's book two centuries old.

Black Spider - Issues with heroin withdrawal. That stuff messes you up bad.

Crazy Quilt - He's got crazy in his villain name. That has to count for something!

Killer Moth - Another guy in an animal mask. And look at all those bright colors! Clearly, he's nuts!

Hush - Had abusive parents (sorta). Constantly quotes some "classical" literature. That must mean he's crazy!

On the more serious side of things, I believe that the whole "Anti-Social" and "Super-Sanity" deal with Joker can be boiled down thusly:

The Joker is the control freak to end all control freaks.

His mannerisms and dialogue seem tailor-made to conform to the general consensus on what a madman "should" sound like. Random jabberings. Heartless allusions to past crimes. A pinch of mad laughter every now and then thrown in for good measure.

And all of it is an act. A facade put on not just for his own amusement, but to give his life meaning. Out of all of Batman's foes, the Joker is the "purest" villain you'll find. He kills and robs and blackmails because he knows that society considers these acts taboo. That they're what villains are "supposed" to do. The reaction is what's important to him.

Let me put it this way: if murder and drug peddling were legal and socially acceptable, Two-Face/Ventriloquist/Penguin wouldn't be criminals. They're not in it to thumb their nose at society and "sanity". They're in it for the gain.

But The Joker will poke and prod until he finds something else that he can use to get beneath society's skin. And to this end, he makes sure that every waking second of his being is fully dedicated to furthering his "purpose" in life. Every seemingly random aside he tosses out is carefully tailor-made to seem as "crazy" and "disturbing" as possible to his "audience". Every twitch of the eye or sweep of the hand meant to invoke a specific thought in whoever sees them.

This, in essence, is the basis of the Joker's "super-sanity". He can go over a list of hundreds of actions and hundreds of thousands of possible reactions in mere seconds, and cherry-pick the ones he thinks will suit a situation best. The only problem being that he can't stop if he wants to. His brain is way too wound up.

But he's only human, right? How can he handle the strain and focus all this raw brainpower?

The answer? The Batman.

Batman is the perfect opponent for the Joker because physically, he's only a man, but in spirit, he represents the highest pinnacles of law and order. Not the laws written on paper and stored in offices and memorized by lawyers and judges, but the laws of society, of humanity itself. Yes, Batman breaks "written" laws, but only in the pursuit of justice - the "higher" law.

And while the physical forms of Batman - the angsty billionaire dressed in tights and cape - and Joker - the pale-faced clown in the purple suit - throw Batarangs and bullets at each other, the Joker's raw, untamed brainpower finds a purpose in life.

No, I don't have a snappily-named multi-letter diagnosis for this kind of mindset. Hold on, let me see... uh... SSCFKJTSLD? (Super-Sane Control Freak Knee-Jerk To Society's Laws Disorder)?

[miss_terry]

The Joker is the control freak to end all control freaks.

His mannerisms and dialogue seem tailor-made to conform to the general consensus on what a madman "should" sound like. Random jabberings. Heartless allusions to past crimes. A pinch of mad laughter every now and then thrown in for good measure.

And all of it is an act. A facade put on not just for his own amusement, but to give his life meaning. Out of all of Batman's foes, the Joker is the "purest" villain you'll find. He kills and robs and blackmails because he knows that society considers these acts taboo. That they're what villains are "supposed" to do. The reaction is what's important to him.

Let me put it this way: if murder and drug peddling were legal and socially acceptable, Two-Face/Ventriloquist/Penguin wouldn't be criminals. They're not in it to thumb their nose at society and "sanity". They're in it for the gain.

But The Joker will poke and prod until he finds something else that he can use to get beneath society's skin. And to this end, he makes sure that every waking second of his being is fully dedicated to furthering his "purpose" in life. Every seemingly random aside he tosses out is carefully tailor-made to seem as "crazy" and "disturbing" as possible to his "audience". Every twitch of the eye or sweep of the hand meant to invoke a specific thought in whoever sees them.

This, in essence, is the basis of the Joker's "super-sanity". He can go over a list of hundreds of actions and hundreds of thousands of possible reactions in mere seconds, and cherry-pick the ones he thinks will suit a situation best. The only problem being that he can't stop if he wants to. His brain is way too wound up.

This is a good detailed post regarding the Joker's psychological disorder. Alan Moore's rendition of him was his mind snapping due to one bad day, which separates the normal and abnormal. And he also allows the Joker to have retrospective memory regarding that. Case in point his pregnant wife dying.