Supernatural -- Season Four

[dupersuper]

Eh, it's the opposite really. He prolonged a few peoples lives. If he hadn't originally shown up and helped the woman he slept with, she'd of been killed a long time ago by the ghouls(plus who knows how many others in the town would of died).


Actually, the ghouls said their father only ate corpses; they started killing people for revenge.

[Vidocq]

I really liked this episode. John's double life is kinda messed up though.


Actually, the ghouls said their father only ate corpses; they started killing people for revenge.

Yep, Just like in real Arabian Folklore, they only eat corpses and really don't wont go after the living. John was just doing what Gordon did which is killing anything supernatural. Although they were considered evil' in real lore, because of their habit of shaping themseves as the corpse they just ate and screwing with that person's love ones.

Sort of like ''Hey Son, you can stop crying, turns out I'm not dead after all..... Sike! Ha, no I'm just kidding. I just ate his corpse and, since he didn't scream, it's safe to say that he is resting in peace... or in my belly. Oh by the by, I did the same joke to your mom, she's in the bedroom crying, I wouldn't enter though, she still must be naked. after all I just finished doing her.''

[Arachnid]

I just saw last weeks episode and was amazed. It was awesome! I think it was cool to have another Winchester boy (and he's my age!). Finding out he died kind of bites though. It was an insane twist though. I didn't see any of that coming.

Oh well. I hope he comes back as an angel or something.

[Petroclas]

I'll admit, I've always hoped I'd join the cast of Supernatural as the third Winchester brother, but this past episode dashed my dreams. *sigh*

[Arachnid]

I'll admit, I've always hoped I'd join the cast of Supernatural as the third Winchester brother, but this past episode dashed my dreams. *sigh*Huh. Good to know I'm not the only one. :tongue:

[Legato]

Regarding this episode of Supernatural all I have to say is.... Holy Sh*t:eek:

Welcome to the darkside Sam Winchester

[Arachnid]

I just started watching it. I'm eight minutes in. Judging by you reaction Legit, seems I'm in for a treat. :biggrin:

[Red Lotus]

Wow tonight show was great. But the stuff that they showed of whats to come. :eek: :eek:

[RadicalDarkChild]

Are they bringing back Little Girl Lilith?

[Blueferret]

How many episodes are left this season. Awesome episode by the way. Sam had a vampire look about him when he rose up from the demon,

[Arachnid]

Wow tonight show was great. But the stuff that they showed of whats to come. :eek: :eek:

That was pretty amazing. I cant wait until next week! I love the Sam vs Dean fights. The last time they fought, none of them where in their right mind. This time, it should be more fair.

Sam going evil looks like a cool storyline too. This season just keeps on outdoing itself.

[kane]

I am on Sam`s side here. He did nothing evil. He drinks blood, but only from demons. He saved Dean, Castiel etc. with his powers. So i think that Bobby and Dean are wrong.

[Legato]

I am on Sam`s side here. He did nothing evil. He drinks blood, but only from demons. He saved Dean, Castiel etc. with his powers. So i think that Bobby and Dean are wrong.

Just playing devil's advocate here Sam does have good intentions. Considering that he and Dean are fighting creatures whom are considered to be way out of their league to fight they need something to give them the edge. Sam drinking demon blood may be considered to be morally questionable but I would see it as he is using the talents that the demons has to fight against them. Sam hasn't really done anything that would suggest that he is going to the darkside so I wouldn't say what he is doing is wrong either.

However I can understand whare Dean and Bobby is coming from. With that such power it could potentially corrupt Sam. Both Bobby and Dean has seen decent people being corrupted due to the demon's influence and they are scared that Sam would be corrupted aswell. Yet Dean talks about Ruby being wrong for Sam but to be honest I would be a little cautious around the angels if I were Dean.

The way I look at it some of the angels that Dean is working with is about as untrustworthy as Ruby. Just because they are angels doesn't mean that you wont find some bad seeds among them.

So the way I look at it maybe it isn't Sam that is being corrupted, perhaps the Angels are secretly trying to corrupt Dean into becoming their agent and to possibly kill his brother down the road

[Rabid Trekkie]

I am on Sam`s side here. He did nothing evil. He drinks blood, but only from demons. He saved Dean, Castiel etc. with his powers. So i think that Bobby and Dean are wrong.

I'm with Dean on this one. The whole story of the Winchesters so far has been nothing but how making deals with demons causes pain. Their mom did it, their dad did it, Dean did it, and now Sam has really gone for it.

Plus its been shown that its something about a person's blood that makes them susceptible to angels (Castiel could only go into Jim or his daughter) and that demons can control people who have had their blood like in Croatoan. Sam though has completely ignored all this and instead of fighting the demon blood in him already, is adding to the problem by consuming more. The best he might be able to hope for is to end up being Ruby's little servant, or with Yellow Eyes' blood and Ruby's and maybe even Lilith's down the road, he may make himself into the perfect vessel for Lucifer's return. Either way, deals with demons doesn't work well for the Winchesters.

Which isn't to say that Dean doesn't need to be cautious as well. What if that wasn't really Castiel who came back?

[ForeverTaskmaster]

I found this to be a so-so episode. However, the end was great.
Sam in the panic room. That's the thanks he gets.
This episode raised lots of questions again.

What is in the blood of vessels that they become a vessel?
Is demon blood kind of like fuel? I mean, Sam was out of demon blood and couldn't even kill a simple demon. He drinks some demon blood and voila, he is simply killing a demon again.
Makes me wonder how much blood Sam drank to be able to kill Alistair.

And man, they shouldn't have shown the preview for the next 2 episodes. Lots of spoilers there.

[Red Lotus]

I am on Sam`s side here. He did nothing evil. He drinks blood, but only from demons. He saved Dean, Castiel etc. with his powers. So i think that Bobby and Dean are wrong.

So Sam acting like a drug addicted is ok then. The whole point of the blood thing last night was to show how far Sam has fallen and how low he will go to get the blood now.
.


Just playing devil's advocate here Sam does have good intentions. Considering that he and Dean are fighting creatures whom are considered to be way out of their league to fight they need something to give them the edge. Sam drinking demon blood may be considered to be morally questionable but I would see it as he is using the talents that the demons has to fight against them. Sam hasn't really done anything that would suggest that he is going to the darkside so I wouldn't say what he is doing is wrong either.

However I can understand whare Dean and Bobby is coming from. With that such power it could potentially corrupt Sam. Both Bobby and Dean has seen decent people being corrupted due to the demon's influence and they are scared that Sam would be corrupted aswell. Yet Dean talks about Ruby being wrong for Sam but to be honest I would be a little cautious around the angels if I were Dean.

The way I look at it some of the angels that Dean is working with is about as untrustworthy as Ruby. Just because they are angels doesn't mean that you wont find some bad seeds among them.

So the way I look at it maybe it isn't Sam that is being corrupted, perhaps the Angels are secretly trying to corrupt Dean into becoming their agent and to possibly kill his brother down the road

There are two thing about this. The first what is the old saying about good intentions. The second what did Pamela Barnes tell Sam before she died.

[Atom_basher]

am i the only opne who gets scared when they see bobby. everytime i see him, i think its gonna be his last time, and they are gonna off him

[Legato]

am i the only opne who gets scared when they see bobby. everytime i see him, i think its gonna be his last time, and they are gonna off him

No your not. Sadly Bobby is apart of this whole thing Sam and Dean is going through and it will only be a matter of time before Bobby would get killed. I dont want that to happen but to be honest if Supernatural survives long enough for a series finalie I dont see Bobby surviving towards the end.

Bobby is one of those mentor type of characters who would make a heroic sacrifice just so the protagonist would live. I think if Lucifer comes I fear Bobby could be Lucifer's first victim

[Arachnid]

I'm with Dean on this one. The whole story of the Winchesters so far has been nothing but how making deals with demons causes pain. Their mom did it, their dad did it, Dean did it, and now Sam has really gone for it.

Plus its been shown that its something about a person's blood that makes them susceptible to angels (Castiel could only go into Jim or his daughter) and that demons can control people who have had their blood like in Croatoan. Sam though has completely ignored all this and instead of fighting the demon blood in him already, is adding to the problem by consuming more. The best he might be able to hope for is to end up being Ruby's little servant, or with Yellow Eyes' blood and Ruby's and maybe even Lilith's down the road, he may make himself into the perfect vessel for Lucifer's return. Either way, deals with demons doesn't work well for the Winchesters.

Which isn't to say that Dean doesn't need to be cautious as well. What if that wasn't really Castiel who came back?I know Sam has good intentions, but I'm with Dean too. I would have done the same thing. I wouldn't risk my little brother (if I had one) getting corrupted and becoming just as evil as the demons we've been fighting. I'd detox him and we'd do things the old fashion way.

[Arachnid]

Hey guys. I've been going through some older Supernatural episodes I missed, and I think the older episodes where the best. You know, when the Winchester boys where still amatures and just starting off? Back when they just went around stopping different types of monsters and urban legends like Wendigo and The Hook Man. I liked the variety in monsters back then.

These days, its all demons, ghosts, and angels. I mean, they still do great with it, but having to find out what the monster is and how to beat it was part of the fun in the older episodes.

Does anybody else miss the older days in the show?

[Rabid Trekkie]

Hey guys. I've been going through some older Supernatural episodes I missed, and I think the older episodes where the best. You know, when the Winchester boys where still amatures and just starting off? Back when they just went around stopping different types of monsters and urban legends like Wendigo and The Hook Man. I liked the variety in monsters back then.

These days, its all demons, ghosts, and angels. I mean, they still do great with it, but having to find out what the monster is and how to beat it was part of the fun in the older episodes.

Does anybody else miss the older days in the show?

I miss some of the variety of monsters, but the storyline more than makes up for it in my book. The show went from a freak of the week to an over arching plot that never fails to impress me each time the show comes on, so as much as I liked the different monsters, I wouldn't give up what we're getting to go back to it.

[WyldCard4]

Eh, it's the opposite really. He prolonged a few peoples lives. If he hadn't originally shown up and helped the woman he slept with, she'd of been killed a long time ago by the ghouls(plus who knows how many others in the town would of died). Thanks to him, she got another 20 years of life, plus a son out of the deal. Even though he died young, if it wasn't for John he wouldn't of existed, in more ways than one.

Still, it's pretty f'ed up he treated this kid so well..and his own children pretty much never got that sort of treatment from him. Probably telling them he was on hunts while actually spending time with him.

I have to say, I think Dean was being a bit naive. He shouldn't of been getting on Sam like that. I mean, whether the kid is trained or not, he's still gonna be a target. The demons will eventually find out about him, and will kill him just to get to them. Better he knows how to defend himself.

Nope, the father ghoul didn't kill anyone, in fact it is pretty logical to argue that the children only killed because John killed their daddy.

Anyway Sam acting like a drug addict not fun, it seems every story about power needs to have drug overtones in it now, even when they already have a fine demonic corruption story with power at a price of becoming less human.

Still wouldn't be surprised if Sam becomes a demon eating monster in his own right for a while, hunting down and feeding off of demons to gain power, becoming the very thing he hunted yet still not worthy of being hunted himself, might make an interesting ending.

Of course my personal ending would be Sam bleeding into the mouth of a baby, the mother walking in, and Sam just leaving magically, without an explanation of what happened between the finale and that day, leaving it open if Sam is a monster now or if he is simply giving power.

[RadicalDarkChild]

Hey guys. I've been going through some older Supernatural episodes I missed, and I think the older episodes where the best. You know, when the Winchester boys where still amatures and just starting off? Back when they just went around stopping different types of monsters and urban legends like Wendigo and The Hook Man. I liked the variety in monsters back then.

These days, its all demons, ghosts, and angels. I mean, they still do great with it, but having to find out what the monster is and how to beat it was part of the fun in the older episodes.

Does anybody else miss the older days in the show?

I do. This season has been too deep into the arc and has not had enough of the monsters of the week.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

Man, I am so anxious to see the next 2 eps.

Will Lucifer really rise?
Is Sam a vessel for Lucifer?
Will Sam gut Lilith like a fish and drink her blood?
Will Bobby survive?
Will the head angel get an ass whooping?
What will happen to Ruby?
Are we gonna see a surprise appearance?
What role will Anna play?
What role will Castiel play?
How will Sam get out of the panic room?
What will the cliffhanger be?

Lots of questions.

[Legato]

This is making me fear for Bobby's life more and more. The man is in so deep that it wouldn't surprise me if Lilith kills him just to piss Dean and Sam off.

Or worse, Bobby could end up as Lucifer's first victim.



I have to agree with Bobby with this one, we have been going on and on about how Sam is being corrupted because of Ruby but Bobby hit the nail in the head that Dean should never trust the angels. Working with the angels is about as dangerous as Sam working with Ruby from the looks of it.

Hell the angels are practically trying to have Sam and Dean turn against eachother from the looks of things.

From the looks of things Im glad that Bobby is being neutral in this whole thing.

[Arachnid]

...

I missed it. I cant believe I missed both this and Smallville. I've been working on the most complicated Essay/Project I've done in my life all day. I'm finally done, but I missed Supernatural and Smallville. Damn.

[Legato]

...

I missed it. I cant believe I missed both this and Smallville. I've been working on the most complicated Essay/Project I've done in my life all day. I'm finally done, but I missed Supernatural and Smallville. Damn.

Speaking of smallville am I the only one who notice a theme that both of the shows is having during their current season?

In Smallville the main villain this season is going to be responsible to bringing Doomsday if he isn't stopped. In Supernatural the main villain this season is going to be responsible for bringing Armageddon if his release is prevented.

In both Supernatural and Smallville you are seeing friends and brothers becoming seperated because each of them possess a different view on how to handle the situation. Clark is at odds with Oliver because Oliver feels that killing Davis would save alot of lives. Yet Clark now realizes that if he kills Davis it would be like killing an innocent. With Supernatural you have Dean being at odds with Sam because he believes that drinking demon blood to defeat Lilith would cause him to become corrupt while Sam feels that the demon blood could help him defeat Lilith and stop Lucifer from being released.

I find it ironic that both Supernatural and Smallville is using a similar concept that concerns the end of the world. With Doomsday he is considered a analogy as a being that could bring fourth the end of the world. With Lucifer the angels repeated time and time again that Lucifer's release would cause the end of the world. Clark is considered the chosen one to defeat Doomsday to stop the world from ending while Dean is considered the chosen one to stop Lucifer's reign of terror.

Also both shows involve a key character possibly going dark due to this whole thing. In Smallville Oliver has seem to be commiting acts that others find questionable. Sam could be digging a hole so deep that not even Dean can help him out of it this time

Yet while they both have similar concepts what Supernatural has going for them is that I have no idea how this whole thing is going to turn out. However it ends I just hope Bobby survives this

[WyldCard4]

Anyone else thinking that Castiel's Superiors may be working for Lucifer?

I hope that's not how they play it, but it would make sense in light of how the "orders" almost always seem to involve the things that could alienate Sam and Dean more than just about anything else.

Another possibility is that the angels want Sam to be full powered, Dean is supposed to stop the Apocalypse, we don't know anything about killing Lilith, it might be that Sam is the only one who can destroy her, and Dean is the one supposed to stop Lucifer.

Makes me wonder how they'll end this thing, Hell on Earth seems a bit beyond even these guys but Sam becoming a true monster and Dean killing him or dying might be the end, brings me back to the ending being Sam bleeding into a baby's mouth.

[Legato]

Anyone else thinking that Castiel's Superiors may be working for Lucifer?

I hope that's not how they play it, but it would make sense in light of how the "orders" almost always seem to involve the things that could alienate Sam and Dean more than just about anything else.

Another possibility is that the angels want Sam to be full powered, Dean is supposed to stop the Apocalypse, we don't know anything about killing Lilith, it might be that Sam is the only one who can destroy her, and Dean is the one supposed to stop Lucifer.

Makes me wonder how they'll end this thing, Hell on Earth seems a bit beyond even these guys but Sam becoming a true monster and Dean killing him or dying might be the end, brings me back to the ending being Sam bleeding into a baby's mouth.


I had this theory that Castiel's superiors could be fallen angels and God has no interest in Dean. The fact that the angels Dean has been working for has been acting like complete dicks is the first clue on that they could be fallen.

That and the angels seem to be tryingn their hardest to seperate Dean and Sam while Bobby seems to be the only one that is trying to bring them together.

[Blueferret]

Best part of next week looks to be the return of the the prophet Chuck!!!!

[Legato]

Best part of next week looks to be the return of the the prophet Chuck!!!!

Here is hoping that the prophet Chuck wont end up dead.

[Arachnid]

I'm suprised at the lack of discussion on yesterdays episode. It was amazing! From the mind warping hallucinations, to the huge confrontation between Sam and Dean, it was all done so well. What makes it even harder to swallow is how much they've cemented the fact that Dean is the one that keeps the family together and cares about them all as a group the most.

They showed that a lot in the older episodes where Dean was trying to keep Sam and John from tearing the family apart. Theres also the fact that John would have torn Dean a new butt-hole for using on of the Colts bullets to save Sam in the older episodes. Its easy to see that Dean cares the most. Thats one of the reasons it was especially sad to see them split like that. This was an amazing episode, and possibly the best this season.

I also wonder what Castiels secret plan is. Why would he release Sam like that despite the fact that he already had Dean on call? All releasing Sam would do is make things more complicated for Dean. I wonder what his reasoning behind it is.

Oh. Right. The 'orders'. There's a lot more to the huge plan Castiels supperiors have. I wonder whats up.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

The only thing I didn't like about this episode were those junkie illusions. Way too many for my taste.
However, some interesting questions arise.
Of course the first one is why Castiel released Sam. I hope it's not to fulfill the prophecy of the apocalypse. That would be so lame. I also hope it's not for the so-called "Dean needs to realize his full potential so Sam has to go darkside."

And why do I have this feeling that it might be Castiel who will be the vessel for Lucifer? Sam is not an angel so why would Lucifer want to take him as a vessel?

Now that Dean is in the service of god will he become an angel?

DON'T KILL BOBBY, Kripke. That would not be cool.

And if Ruby survives please recast Katie Cassidy as Ruby.
The current Ruby is beyond annoying.

[tjarvis]

Of course we don't know if Castiel is really serving God, hell Castiel doesn't even know that. They made it pretty clear that most angels never hear from the big guy. Their orders come from an unseen source. Cas and Dean might be getting manipulated for all we know.

Still, that's not as likely as Sam being the one being manipulated. A pure soul willingly becoming a demon seems like just the kind of total corruption that would be behind the last seal. And it would give the Winchesters a certain kind of symmetry. Dean broke the first seal, Sam breaks the last, and in the end it will take both of them to undo the mistakes they did together.

I'm sure that Ruby = Scarlet = Lucifer thing will probably hold up. Not to say that she is Lucipher (Not sure which spelling the show will go with), just that she's working for him.

The series won't end with Sam or Dean killing the other. In the end, I think it's the genuine brotherly love between them that will end up saving the world. It's just going to get really grim until they get there.

[Red Lotus]

Still, that's not as likely as Sam being the one being manipulated. A pure soul willingly becoming a demon seems like just the kind of total corruption that would be behind the last seal. And it would give the Winchesters a certain kind of symmetry. Dean broke the first seal, Sam breaks the last, and in the end it will take both of them to undo the mistakes they did together..

I do agree with Dean being the first and Sam being the last thing. But I'm not sure how pure Sam soul is. I'm starting to think that Sam soul isn't pure and thats why this happening to him. I also think that maybe Dean soul is pure which is why he was able to break the first seal. I dont see how Dean would be a righteous man or why Dean father would be one either. Unless maybe its in their blood, but because Sam blood is mixed with demon he isn't like them.

[Lord of Denial]

I'm a bit tired of Bobby so it might be nice for him to get a heroic death.

As for Ruby, dear God no! Katie Cassidy was beyond horrible. I don't think Ruby will survive, so I think it's a moot point, but I would not want to see her stinking up the screens again.

What I do want is a resurrected Bela. Best female character on Supernatural ever (behind Meg).

Tired of Bobby?

Them be figtin words around these here parts.

[Lord of Denial]

The only thing I didn't like about this episode were those junkie illusions. Way too many for my taste.
However, some interesting questions arise.
Of course the first one is why Castiel released Sam. I hope it's not to fulfill the prophecy of the apocalypse. That would be so lame. I also hope it's not for the so-called "Dean needs to realize his full potential so Sam has to go darkside."

And why do I have this feeling that it might be Castiel who will be the vessel for Lucifer? Sam is not an angel so why would Lucifer want to take him as a vessel?

Now that Dean is in the service of god will he become an angel?

DON'T KILL BOBBY, Kripke. That would not be cool.

And if Ruby survives please recast Katie Cassidy as Ruby.
The current Ruby is beyond annoying.

That is a great point.

Lucifer hates humans and demons are humans corrupted into demon so Lucifer would not want a demon or human as a vessel, he would want what he always was an Angel.

[Legato]

That is a great point.

Lucifer hates humans and demons are humans corrupted into demon so Lucifer would not want a demon or human as a vessel, he would want what he always was an Angel.

I could see either Anna or Castiel as Lucifer's vessel.

[Surtur]

I just don't see why Dean takes it personally when Sam says he is too weak to fight Lilith? He has zero power, and the anti-demon weapons don't even work on Allister, I doubt he'd get very far with Lilith. So either he's gonna get a powerup, or this is gonna end with some mad PIS.

Also RIP Bobby, we all know it's coming, if not at the end of this season, then definitely in the series finale(as the next season will be the last).

[Legato]

I just don't see why Dean takes it personally when Sam says he is too weak to fight Lilith? He has zero power, and the anti-demon weapons don't even work on Allister, I doubt he'd get very far with Lilith. So either he's gonna get a powerup, or this is gonna end with some mad PIS.

Also RIP Bobby, we all know it's coming, if not at the end of this season, then definitely in the series finale(as the next season will be the last).

Yeah.:frown: I dont want Bobby to die but his death is going to happen. Bobby represents the old generation of hunters and, as you can see, that generation is a endangered species. Sam and Dean is the current generation of hunters so with them being alive means helping out future generation of hunters.

Im curious as to how the series is going to end. I can see no happily ever after kind of ending happen in Supernatural. As Dean said even if they kill off one evil source thare is other evil source still hiding out somewhare.

If anything I could see Sam and Dean both dying but their legacy could be carried out to other hunters out thare. The fact that they are getting the Jesus treatment this season makes it more evident

[Surtur]

Season Five is not necessarily the final season. Yes, Eric Kripke has a five-year plan, but if the show continues to be a hit for the CW, they will continue to renew it. By that point, Kripke may walk away and the show may be past its prime, but the CW is known for renewing shows that should've wrapped up years earlier (Smallville, One Tree Hill, etc.).

This would ruin the show IMO. Without Kripke, it could turn horrible. I'd rather have 5 good seasons and the show ends, then having the show hurt by another 2-3 seasons that are bad.

Now, if Kripke signs on to do more, that'd be different.

[Red Lotus]

I just don't see why Dean takes it personally when Sam says he is too weak to fight Lilith? He has zero power, and the anti-demon weapons don't even work on Allister, I doubt he'd get very far with Lilith. So either he's gonna get a powerup, or this is gonna end with some mad PIS.

Also RIP Bobby, we all know it's coming, if not at the end of this season, then definitely in the series finale(as the next season will be the last).

For Dean it might have to do with the fact he feels in a way this is all his fault, That because he was weak he broke the first seal. On the other hand for Sam it’s the fact that he is a little jealous that God and the angels have picked Dean to be the chosen one.

[dupersuper]

I could see either Anna or Castiel as Lucifer's vessel.

but they're really just human vessels for angels, not angel bodies...

[Vidocq]

That is a great point.

Lucifer hates humans and demons are humans corrupted into demon so Lucifer would not want a demon or human as a vessel, he would want what he always was an Angel.


I could see either Anna or Castiel as Lucifer's vessel.

Wait, that dosen't make any sense. Lucifer is an angel, that's the reason why he needs a vessel in the first place. So taking an Angel, even if it is possible for him to do so, would defeat the purpose. He would Have to take a Human even if it's the human an angel has already taken, for him to interact with this world. Taking a demon would also be useless.

[joemagnum611]

This would ruin the show IMO. Without Kripke, it could turn horrible. I'd rather have 5 good seasons and the show ends, then having the show hurt by another 2-3 seasons that are bad.

Now, if Kripke signs on to do more, that'd be different.

The only way I see Ackles and Padalecki resigning is if Kripke does.

[Lord of Denial]

Wait, that dosen't make any sense. Lucifer is an angel, that's the reason why he needs a vessel in the first place. So taking an Angel, even if it is possible for him to do so, would defeat the purpose. He would Have to take a Human even if it's the human an angel has already taken, for him to interact with this world. Taking a demon would also be useless.

Unless he is beyond anything we have seen before and can exist in our world in his original form.

Angels probably only take human form in order to interact with us, and not kill us.

Lucifer I doubt has a problem with that.

[WyldCard4]

Unless he is beyond anything we have seen before and can exist in our world in his original form.

Angels probably only take human form in order to interact with us, and not kill us.

Lucifer I doubt has a problem with that.

Well they never have taken physical form without a vessel, the seem to exist as light at most barely interacting with the world by manipulating electronics.

Though if they can take physical form, even in a world damaging way, it would probably be very bad indeed, even their voices distorted though electronics can hurt people, seeing them causes eyes to melt...

As a theory, maybe most of the monsters, things like the Wendigo, Ghouls, and the like are attempts to make an inhuman being as a host for Lucifer, finally none worked so they started the generations of tainted humans.

[Murrocko]

I'm with 2harts here, bring back Bella. Loved her and Dean's interaction.

[kane]

Maybe Sam will break the last seal by killing Lilith. Castiel freed Sam to make this happen because the angels want to end the threat once and for all and kill Lucifer this time.

[Arachnid]

Yeah.:frown: I dont want Bobby to die but his death is going to happen. Bobby represents the old generation of hunters and, as you can see, that generation is a endangered species. Sam and Dean is the current generation of hunters so with them being alive means helping out future generation of hunters.

Im curious as to how the series is going to end. I can see no happily ever after kind of ending happen in Supernatural. As Dean said even if they kill off one evil source thare is other evil source still hiding out somewhare.

If anything I could see Sam and Dean both dying but their legacy could be carried out to other hunters out thare. The fact that they are getting the Jesus treatment this season makes it more evident
I can see this show having a happy ending for everyone besides the Winchesters. Thats how it always is. They always save who they are trying to save, but pay the price for it. Their dad dies, their mom dies, their girlfriends die, they're (step?)mom dies, their brother dies, and their friends die. All that's left to die are Bobby, Ruby, Sam, and Dean. I see them saving who they're trying to save and finishing their job, but along the way, they all die.

That, or to make it even sadder for the Winchesters, one of them dies, and the other goes back to a life of hunting alone (Dean), or goes back to having a normal life (Sam) without family. It's what I see happening, unfortunately.

[Rabid Trekkie]

I finally got to see "When the Levee Breaks" and I had this idea. What if Sam is actually Lucifer's first? With prophecies and everything, this could be a religious long con. The whole myth about Lilith could have been planted to make Sam believe that one person has already been turned into a demon, when in fact they had all been fallen angels and Ruby is converting Sam into the first person turned into a demon by Lucifer's command.

While I'd be thrilled to have guessed the plan, I really hope I'm wrong.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

I would like to see how YED fits into all of this.

[Libaax]

I finally saw ep 21 and i must say it was amazing.

Sam really became dark, very demon like. I cant almost believe how fast he lost his ways. He is so arrogant that he couldnt even listen to Dean and the angel deal. Dean was right, its Sam who became weak.

Now i almost wish to see him become unhuman like Castiel said with the blood he needs for Lilith. I want to see Dean kick his ass.

[Legato]

I finally saw ep 21 and i must say it was amazing.

Sam really became dark, very demon like. I cant almost believe how fast he lost his ways. He is so arrogant that he couldnt even listen to Dean and the angel deal. Dean was right, its Sam who became weak.

Now i almost wish to see him become unhuman like Castiel said with the blood he needs for Lilith. I want to see Dean kick his ass.

I wouldn;t be so quick to side with Dean. If anything the only one Im siding on is Bobby. Sure it's all too easy to play the blame game on Sam because he is with a demon but Bobby made a good point in that Dean shouldn't trust the angels.

We are focusing too much on Sam that we are not seeing the big picture. The angels are the ones that is trying to seperate Dean and Sam so that a prophecy can be fullfilled.

So you can go and be on Dean's side all you want but IMO Dean is becoming a little too trusting with the Angels. If Dean ever finds out that they are responsible for splitting Dean and Sam up then Dean would want nothing to do with them.

Also did you look at that episode? The angels were the ones who manipulated Sam into doing what he did? Unlike the lot of you Im not making Sam turn out to be the villain. Hell the Angels seem more villain like than Ruby from the looks of it

If I were Dean I would listen to Bobby's warnings about the Angels. no wonder Bobby is taking the neutral side of this

[Libaax]

I wouldn;t be so quick to side with Dean. If anything the only one Im siding on is Bobby. Sure it's all too easy to play the blame game on Sam because he is with a demon but Bobby made a good point in that Dean shouldn't trust the angels.

We are focusing too much on Sam that we are not seeing the big picture. The angels are the ones that is trying to seperate Dean and Sam so that a prophecy can be fullfilled.

So you can go and be on Dean's side all you want but IMO Dean is becoming a little too trusting with the Angels. If Dean ever finds out that they are responsible for splitting Dean and Sam up then Dean would want nothing to do with them.

Also did you look at that episode? The angels were the ones who manipulated Sam into doing what he did? Unlike the lot of you Im not making Sam turn out to be the villain. Hell the Angels seem more villain like than Ruby from the looks of it

If I were Dean I would listen to Bobby's warnings about the Angels. no wonder Bobby is taking the neutral side of this

Dean dont trust the angels he just dont have a choice. Its them or his brother becomes one of the bad guys.

He is the only one that is fighting for a good reason. Sam is fighting for hole different,more twisted reasons. Did you see how when he was seeing things in the room, he was telling himself as his mother how right he was,revenge and everything.

Angels are of course using Sam for their own goals. Most likely so they can use Dean as a weapon. That doesnt change the fact Sam is like a drug addict,so blinded by hate that he doesnt even ask Ruby anything.

Its very clear she is playing him for Lilith and the demons endgame.

Angels might not care much for humans but their goal isnt to destroy the world unlike Ruby and co.

Im just dissapointed in how over the top villain like Same have become. He forget everything that made him a hunter. Its like Ruby control his actions, she has something magicly on him to act so much like them.

[WyldCard4]

I'm not so sure Ruby is playing Sam for the demonic endgame, she seems to have her own desires and goals, when she's interacted with Lilith's minions the two haven't acted like they're on the same side in the slightest.

Ruby may indeed be evil, it's possible she's working for Lucifer directly or carrying out Yellow Eye's original plan, but I'm pretty sure she isn't working with or for Lilith.

[Legato]

I'm not so sure Ruby is playing Sam for the demonic endgame, she seems to have her own desires and goals, when she's interacted with Lilith's minions the two haven't acted like they're on the same side in the slightest.

Ruby may indeed be evil, it's possible she's working for Lucifer directly or carrying out Yellow Eye's original plan, but I'm pretty sure she isn't working with or for Lilith.


Dean dont trust the angels he just dont have a choice. Its them or his brother becomes one of the bad guys.

He is the only one that is fighting for a good reason. Sam is fighting for hole different,more twisted reasons. Did you see how when he was seeing things in the room, he was telling himself as his mother how right he was,revenge and everything.

Angels are of course using Sam for their own goals. Most likely so they can use Dean as a weapon. That doesnt change the fact Sam is like a drug addict,so blinded by hate that he doesnt even ask Ruby anything.

Its very clear she is playing him for Lilith and the demons endgame.

Angels might not care much for humans but their goal isnt to destroy the world unlike Ruby and co.

Im just dissapointed in how over the top villain like Same have become. He forget everything that made him a hunter. Its like Ruby control his actions, she has something magicly on him to act so much like them.



Ruby could possibly be working for herself. I see one or two theories happening. Ruby could be using Sam so that Sam might kill Lucifer later on, that way Sam would be the ruler and Ruby would stand by his side as his queen or something. Another theory is that perhaps she is using Sam as a way to ressurrect Yellow Eyes, possibly having Yellow Eyes be reborn within Sam

Also I dont see in any way Sam acting villainous. He has not killed any innocent people so besides turning against Dean just what the heck has he done to lable him as a villain? He sure as hell did not kill any innocents

Also Dean didn't exactly handle the situation concerning Sam in a proper way. He turned his own predjudice against demons towards Sam. So while Sam is in the wrong I am not going to ignore the fact that Dean was in the wrong on not reaching out to Sam properly.

Bobby handled it a little better than Dean did. Atleast Bobby didn't call Sam a monster. But hey what do I know Sam is the real "villain" here

[Libaax]

Its easy for Bobby to be neautral than Dean. Its not his blood,brother who is being played by the demon or demons. Predjudice against demons ??

Come on if she made my brother drink blood,become more evil in certain ways with her blood i would love to kill her. I understand Dean being emotional and calling him a monster. Didnt their kind kill thier father and mother ? Sam apparently forgot that and trust Ruby more than Dean.

About Dean calling him monster, Sam calls him weak all the time these days just because he doesnt have demon powers. Thats why i dont like the new Sam. He isnt even slightly similar to Sam from the last season. That Sam would understand Dean being worried and angry about him drinking blood,working with demons.

I really wonder how it ends this season. How can Sam turn back ? You want the real Sam back. Also i dont want to see him die again and return later. Its not Superhero comics. I want the brothers back and hunting together in S5 too.

[Legato]

Its easy for Bobby to be neautral than Dean. Its not his blood,brother who is being played by the demon or demons. Predjudice against demons ??

Come on if she made my brother drink blood,become more evil in certain ways with her blood i would love to kill her. I understand Dean being emotional and calling him a monster. Didnt their kind kill thier father and mother ? Sam apparently forgot that and trust Ruby more than Dean.

About Dean calling him monster, Sam calls him weak all the time these days just because he doesnt have demon powers. Thats why i dont like the new Sam. He isnt even slightly similar to Sam from the last season. That Sam would understand Dean being worried and angry about him drinking blood,working with demons.

I really wonder how it ends this season. How can Sam turn back ? You want the real Sam back. Also i dont want to see him die again and return later. Its not Superhero comics. I want the brothers back and hunting together in S5 too.

The Sam from last season just lost his brother so it is understandable that he was pretty messed up in the head, the guy went through watching his girlfriend die, his father die, and his brother. Sam has nobody besides Bobby to turn to and when he isn't doing that he turns to Ruby to help him become strong enough to defeat Lilith because she is the only one with the resources in making that happen.

Dean should have tried harder to help Sam. If anyone that understands more on being tempted to the darkside it is Dean. If it wasn't for Sam talking Dean out of not following the path that Gordon Walker took then Dean would end up like Gordon. When Dean's father died he looked at Gordon as a father type of figure but Sam knew that Gordon was bad news.

Lets not forget that Allastor tempted Dean into becoming his enforcer in hell, so it isn't just Sam that got tempted by a Demon. It took Allastor manipulating Dean while Dean was too physically and emotionally messed up. While Ruby was certainly toying with Sam's emotions while he was alone.

So Im just saying before we say Dean did no wrong just look at he was in the same boat as Sam and he should have understood what Sam is going through. He never drinked no demon blood but when he was in hell he had that brief moment when he was corrupted and Dean had to live with what he did in hell.

I want Dean to ditch the angels the moment he finds out about how they mindscrew Sam into turning on him. Either Castiel or Anna might break the news to him at some point. While the angels aren't completly evil like the ones Sam is apart of their way of dealing things makes them no better than the demons.

I just hope Bobby wont have to die just to have both Winchesters to come to their senses

[Arachnid]

Dean dont trust the angels he just dont have a choice. Its them or his brother becomes one of the bad guys.

He is the only one that is fighting for a good reason. Sam is fighting for hole different,more twisted reasons. Did you see how when he was seeing things in the room, he was telling himself as his mother how right he was,revenge and everything.

Angels are of course using Sam for their own goals. Most likely so they can use Dean as a weapon. That doesnt change the fact Sam is like a drug addict,so blinded by hate that he doesnt even ask Ruby anything.

Its very clear she is playing him for Lilith and the demons endgame.

Angels might not care much for humans but their goal isnt to destroy the world unlike Ruby and co.

Im just dissapointed in how over the top villain like Same have become. He forget everything that made him a hunter. Its like Ruby control his actions, she has something magicly on him to act so much like them.


Ruby could possibly be working for herself. I see one or two theories happening. Ruby could be using Sam so that Sam might kill Lucifer later on, that way Sam would be the ruler and Ruby would stand by his side as his queen or something. Another theory is that perhaps she is using Sam as a way to ressurrect Yellow Eyes, possibly having Yellow Eyes be reborn within Sam

Also I dont see in any way Sam acting villainous. He has not killed any innocent people so besides turning against Dean just what the heck has he done to lable him as a villain? He sure as hell did not kill any innocents

Also Dean didn't exactly handle the situation concerning Sam in a proper way. He turned his own prejudice against demons towards Sam. So while Sam is in the wrong I am not going to ignore the fact that Dean was in the wrong on not reaching out to Sam properly.

Bobby handled it a little better than Dean did. At least Bobby didn't call Sam a monster. But hey what do I know Sam is the real "villain" here
I wouldn't call Sam a villain just yet. He's more of an anti-hero these days. Not like he kills innocents for fun. He does what he does because he believes its the only way he can save humanity. He wants to kill Lilith because he knows that the final seal involves her. He just doesn't know that it's her death that triggers it.

And Dean went about it all the wrong way. He called his own brother a monster. For what? Because he's drinking demon blood to try to save humanity? I don't really approve of Sam's actions either, but when Dean did that, he pushed Sam that much closer to the bad side.

Hell, at least Sam tried to be rational about it at first. Dean just went in there guns blazing. Sam straight up tried to reason with Dean and even told him they could work together. If Dean had done that instead of calling him a monster, when the Dean found out about the last seal, he could have told Sam that Lilith's death triggers it and the apocalypse would have been averted. At this point, Dean is as much responsible for the inevitable apocalypse as Sam will be.

[Legato]

I wouldn't call Sam a villain just yet. He's more of an anti-hero these days. Not like he kills innocents for fun. He does what he does because he believes its the only way he can save humanity. He wants to kill Lilith because he knows that the final seal involves her. He just doesn't know that it's her death that triggers it.

And Dean went about it all the wrong way. He called his own brother a monster. For what? Because he's drinking demon blood to try to save humanity? I don't really approve of Sam's actions either, but when Dean did that, he pushed Sam that much closer to the bad side.

Hell, at least Sam tried to be rational about it at first. Dean just went in there guns blazing. Sam straight up tried to reason with Dean and even told him they could work together. If Dean had done that instead of calling him a monster, when the Dean found out about the last seal, he could have told Sam that Lilith's death triggers it and the apocalypse would have been averted. At this point, Dean is as much responsible for the inevitable apocalypse as Sam will be.


Thank you! Someone who sees just how wrong Dean went on trying to reach Sam as I have.

[Arachnid]

Thank you! Someone who sees just how wrong Dean went on trying to reach Sam as I have.Seems pretty obvious.

Although, its pretty clear at this point that they are both being played, used and turned against each other. I don't trust the angels any more than I would a demon. I know they have their own secret agenda. That, or they are being screwed over just as hard as Dean and Sam are.

[Legato]

Seems pretty obvious.

Although, its pretty clear at this point that they are both being played, used and turned against each other. I don't trust the angels any more than I would a demon. I know they have their own secret agenda. That, or they are being screwed over just as hard as Dean and Sam are.

The only angel I feel is being screwed over is Castiel. The rest seem pretty well aware of their actions but I can imagine Castiel is being forced into following orders now.

[Legato]

I wouldn't call Sam a villain just yet. He's more of an anti-hero these days. Not like he kills innocents for fun. He does what he does because he believes its the only way he can save humanity. He wants to kill Lilith because he knows that the final seal involves her. He just doesn't know that it's her death that triggers it.

And Dean went about it all the wrong way. He called his own brother a monster. For what? Because he's drinking demon blood to try to save humanity? I don't really approve of Sam's actions either, but when Dean did that, he pushed Sam that much closer to the bad side.

Hell, at least Sam tried to be rational about it at first. Dean just went in there guns blazing. Sam straight up tried to reason with Dean and even told him they could work together. If Dean had done that instead of calling him a monster, when the Dean found out about the last seal, he could have told Sam that Lilith's death triggers it and the apocalypse would have been averted. At this point, Dean is as much responsible for the inevitable apocalypse as Sam will be.

Also Dean had to go and tell Sam to not ever come back. He picked the wrong time to follow Papa John's example by casting Sam out.

[Red Lotus]

Dean dont trust the angels he just dont have a choice. Its them or his brother becomes one of the bad guys.

He is the only one that is fighting for a good reason. Sam is fighting for hole different,more twisted reasons. Did you see how when he was seeing things in the room, he was telling himself as his mother how right he was,revenge and everything.

Angels are of course using Sam for their own goals. Most likely so they can use Dean as a weapon. That doesnt change the fact Sam is like a drug addict,so blinded by hate that he doesnt even ask Ruby anything.

Its very clear she is playing him for Lilith and the demons endgame.

Angels might not care much for humans but their goal isnt to destroy the world unlike Ruby and co.

Im just dissapointed in how over the top villain like Same have become. He forget everything that made him a hunter. Its like Ruby control his actions, she has something magicly on him to act so much like them.


This is a great point that everyone seems to miss.


I wouldn't call Sam a villain just yet. He's more of an anti-hero these days. Not like he kills innocents for fun. He does what he does because he believes its the only way he can save humanity. He wants to kill Lilith because he knows that the final seal involves her. He just doesn't know that it's her death that triggers it.

And Dean went about it all the wrong way. He called his own brother a monster. For what? Because he's drinking demon blood to try to save humanity? I don't really approve of Sam's actions either, but when Dean did that, he pushed Sam that much closer to the bad side.

Hell, at least Sam tried to be rational about it at first. Dean just went in there guns blazing. Sam straight up tried to reason with Dean and even told him they could work together. If Dean had done that instead of calling him a monster, when the Dean found out about the last seal, he could have told Sam that Lilith's death triggers it and the apocalypse would have been averted. At this point, Dean is as much responsible for the inevitable apocalypse as Sam will be.

Pamela dying words were to tell Sam that he may think he is doing the right thing but he isn't. If Sam only reason to drink the demon blood was to save humanity then Dean would still be mad, but he wouldn't be as mad. Sam is an addicted. Dean asked Sam one thing to forget Ruby. That him and Sam would go kill Lilith, but Sam told him no.

Dean being responsible for whats coming well he kind of always was. He broke the first seal. No matter what he is at fault.

I think Ruby knows that Sam has to kill Lilith to break the last seal and that has been her plan all a long.

[WyldCard4]

While it is very likely killing Lilith is the last seal there is no way for Sam to even guess that, he is running ragged on demon blood, has been experiencing increasingly horrific events for about four years, and simply hasn't had a real chance to think in a good while.

And no one else has the information to guess this, we know that Lilith isn't surviving the war, we know that only Lilith can break the last seal, but everyone else is either just a few months out of Hell, addicted to demon blood, an angel without free will who couldn't tell Sam if they wanted to, and demons who want the seal broken.

Also we have no assurance it even is the last seal, for all we know it is the opposite that is the seal, the first seal is a righteous man shedding blood in Hell, the last one may be a fallen man refusing to draw Lilith's blood.

It might even be worse than that, it might be Dean turning his back on the angels that is the last seal, Sam refusing to drink demon blood (fits in with the above, refusing to draw blood being the last seal), it might be Castiel disobeying his Superiors and falling, it might be the brothers killing each other...

We really don't know what the demon endgame is, we can only guess, and we aren't inside the universe, it is really easy to say something is obvious from outside it.

[Arachnid]

This is a great point that everyone seems to miss.

Pamela dying words were to tell Sam that he may think he is doing the right thing but he isn't. If Sam only reason to drink the demon blood was to save humanity then Dean would still be mad, but he wouldn't be as mad. Sam is an addicted. Dean asked Sam one thing to forget Ruby. That him and Sam would go kill Lilith, but Sam told him no.I don't think its a addiction as much as it is a means to be stronger. Kind of like an athlete taking steroids to win the big game, except Sam is justified in this because the big game happens to be a war that could wipe out humanity. I don't know about you, but I'd take steroids if it was the only way to save the world. That's a no-brainer.

He said it himself. He doesn't enjoy drinking demon blood. I believe he does it because without it, he would get weaker to the point where he wouldn't be able to lift a finger against anybody. Hell, at this point, stopping it may even kill him.


Dean being responsible for whats coming well he kind of always was. He broke the first seal. No matter what he is at fault.I don't really blame Dean for the first seal. He tried as hard as he could. Hell, he held out longer than most people in the world would have. It wasn't his fault. I attribute the first seal to Alistair alone.

The last seal, however, could have been avoided. That is partially his fault.


I think Ruby knows that Sam has to kill Lilith to break the last seal and that has been her plan all a long.Your right about that. I guess Dean was right not to trust her. We cant fault Sam for that though. She even tricked Dean for a while.


While it is very likely killing Lilith is the last seal there is no way for Sam to even guess that, he is running ragged on demon blood, has been experiencing increasingly horrific events for about four years, and simply hasn't had a real chance to think in a good while.

And no one else has the information to guess this, we know that Lilith isn't surviving the war, we know that only Lilith can break the last seal, but everyone else is either just a few months out of Hell, addicted to demon blood, an angel without free will who couldn't tell Sam if they wanted to, and demons who want the seal broken.

Also we have no assurance it even is the last seal, for all we know it is the opposite that is the seal, the first seal is a righteous man shedding blood in Hell, the last one may be a fallen man refusing to draw Lilith's blood.

It might even be worse than that, it might be Dean turning his back on the angels that is the last seal, Sam refusing to drink demon blood (fits in with the above, refusing to draw blood being the last seal), it might be Castiel disobeying his Superiors and falling, it might be the brothers killing each other...

We really don't know what the demon endgame is, we can only guess, and we aren't inside the universe, it is really easy to say something is obvious from outside it.Actually, now that I think about it, your right. This isn't the kind of show you can predict. They always have unexpected twists and turns in this show. Who's to saw the season finale won't be the same?

[Legato]

I don't think its a addiction as much as it is a means to be stronger. Kind of like an athlete taking steroids to win the big game, except Sam is justified in this because the big game happens to be a war that could wipe out humanity. I don't know about you, but I'd take steroids if it was the only way to save the world. That's a no-brainer.

He said it himself. He doesn't enjoy drinking demon blood. I believe he does it because without it, he would get weaker to the point where he wouldn't be able to lift a finger against anybody. Hell, at this point, stopping it may even kill him.

I don't really blame Dean for the first seal. He tried as hard as he could. Hell, he held out longer than most people in the world would have. It wasn't his fault. I attribute the first seal to Alistair alone.

The last seal, however, could have been avoided. That is partially his fault.

Your right about that. I guess Dean was right not to trust her. We cant fault Sam for that though. She even tricked Dean for a while.

Thats the big issue that most people who are against Sam isn't seeing. Sam doesn't like drinking demon blood and he told Chuck how much he dont like it. Yet he believes that drinking demon blood is the only way for him to become strong enough to kill Lilith so that she wont release Lucifer. If thare was another way then Sam would take that instead of drinking demon blood but Sam is at a point whare desperate times call for desperate measures.

If Lilith were the last seal and Sam knew then I dont think he would be so ready to kill her. But Sam is being played by Ruby and Dean is being played by the Angels and the only one who sees it somehow is Bobby

[WyldCard4]

Thats the big issue that most people who are against Sam isn't seeing. Sam doesn't like drinking demon blood and he told Chuck how much he dont like it. Yet he believes that drinking demon blood is the only way for him to become strong enough to kill Lilith so that she wont release Lucifer. If thare was another way then Sam would take that instead of drinking demon blood but Sam is at a point whare desperate times call for desperate measures.

If Lilith were the last seal and Sam knew then I dont think he would be so ready to kill her. But Sam is being played by Ruby and Dean is being played by the Angels and the only one who sees it somehow is Bobby

And Bobby doesn't have even close to our level of information, unless the Winchesters have been calling him every few days and giving him reports he doesn't have the random facts we know, Bobby isn't going to figure out how they're being played without some serious wrangling about in the show.

Right now there is no one in the entire show who is informed and objective, not a single one, even Anna was inherently biased, Bobby may be close but he just doesn't have the information to make a choice.

Everyone is fumbling about in the dark except for possibly the Superiors and some demons, and I bet they don't know as much as we might assume about each others goals, as evidenced by not knowing Azazel's end game, Lilith and co probably know even less about angelic plans.

Whatever happens it will probably surprise everyone.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

Rufus knows! But I guess we won't see him in the season finale.

I can tell you that when I see the words
"The Story So Far" and the Kansas song starts I will get goosebumps. Three years in a row Supernatural had the best season finale and this one will be no different.

One thing about Dean I don't understand. The way I see it Sam is the victim here. Dean is not thinking clearly. He should stick to his brother by the end and he didn't. In fact he was a bit too moralizing if you ask me. Sam tries to do good and somehow Dean doesn't see it. The way Sam tries to do good is questionable but they are brothers. They trusted each other so far so why not deal with this together?

I really can't wait for the season finale. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bobby won't get killed.
And I would totally mark out if Bella would appear with the colt. :-) The colt needs to be back in action.

They say a colt can kill demons, but could it also kill angels?

[chico25]

For everyone saying Sam is just doing this to stop the apocalyse you should remember that Sam has been drinking demon blood since before Dean came back from hell. His entire goal was to kill Lilith. It was about revenge but that didn't change after Dean came back he just has this tunnel vision and the apocalyse just seems like an excuse.

[Legato]

Rufus knows! But I guess we won't see him in the season finale.

I can tell you that when I see the words
"The Story So Far" and the Kansas song starts I will get goosebumps. Three years in a row Supernatural had the best season finale and this one will be no different.

One thing about Dean I don't understand. The way I see it Sam is the victim here. Dean is not thinking clearly. He should stick to his brother by the end and he didn't. In fact he was a bit too moralizing if you ask me. Sam tries to do good and somehow Dean doesn't see it. The way Sam tries to do good is questionable but they are brothers. They trusted each other so far so why not deal with this together?

I really can't wait for the season finale. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bobby won't get killed.
And I would totally mark out if Bella would appear with the colt. :-) The colt needs to be back in action.

They say a colt can kill demons, but could it also kill angels?

The problem with that plan is Bella's dead.

Yet it would be cool if it were Rufus being the guy who Bella sold The Colt to. Hell I just want some mention about the Colt since it seem to be pretty much forgotten

[Libaax]

For everyone saying Sam is just doing this to stop the apocalyse you should remember that Sam has been drinking demon blood since before Dean came back from hell. His entire goal was to kill Lilith. It was about revenge but that didn't change after Dean came back he just has this tunnel vision and the apocalyse just seems like an excuse.


And thats why i dont like this version of Sam. He is blind with hate,revenge and addiction to demon blood.

He is so much weaker than Dean no matter how strong he think he is. We will see how his twisted ways end up.

The story is not the type that lets the demon blood drinking addict,who is missguided by revenge ideas to be the hero.

Specially when the angels want to him as a pawn to be the way he has become.

[Red Lotus]

Thats the big issue that most people who are against Sam isn't seeing. Sam doesn't like drinking demon blood and he told Chuck how much he dont like it. Yet he believes that drinking demon blood is the only way for him to become strong enough to kill Lilith so that she wont release Lucifer. If thare was another way then Sam would take that instead of drinking demon blood but Sam is at a point whare desperate times call for desperate measures.

If Lilith were the last seal and Sam knew then I dont think he would be so ready to kill her. But Sam is being played by Ruby and Dean is being played by the Angels and the only one who sees it somehow is Bobby

I get the point that Sam doesn't like drinking the demon blood. But actions are greater the words. Sam's actions point to some one who is a drug addict. Sam addiction is so bad that he didn't care to hide it from Dean anymore and when he had a chance to get his fix he got it right in front of Dean. That was a very low moment for him. Some drug addicts will tell you over and over how much they hate doing the stuff they are doing, but they can't help it.

[Legato]

Some parts I like about Supernatural.

Bobby telling Dean to stop acting like a bitch, or more importantly like his father, and help Sam

Castiel growing a pair and help Dean

The Prophet Chuck

Lilith, Ruby, and the baby killing demon getting what they deserve.


What I dont like

The predictable resolution regarding Ruby. I would much rather have it that not all demons are evil bastards. Guess even Supernatural had to be predictable sometimes

[Antonio B.]

Some parts I like about Supernatural.

Bobby telling Dean to stop acting like a bitch, or more importantly like his father, and help Sam

Castiel growing a pair and help Dean

The Prophet Chuck

Lilith, Ruby, and the baby killing demon getting what they deserve.


What I dont like

The predictable resolution regarding Ruby. I would much rather have it that not all demons are evil bastards. Guess even Supernatural had to be predictable sometimes

I liked all that stuff except killing of Ruby. I actually like the Character. I was really hoping she wasn't an evil bitch for real. The way she was acting however made it obvious.

[Legato]

I liked all that stuff except killing of Ruby. I actually like the Character. I was really hoping she wasn't an evil bitch for real. The way she was acting however made it obvious.

I know how you feel. Supernatural is suppose to be the kind of show that involves, just when you think something is about to happen the writers pull the wool over your eyes. After all the development on trying to not make Ruby turn out to be an evil bitch they did something that I never thought they would do. They take the predictable path.

Is it just me or does the show have something against female characters? Jo has gone missing in action, Ruby's character is derailed into becoming an evil bitch, and Bella got killed off.

It seems whenever thare is a strong and interesting female character they are either killed off or put on a bus

[Red Lotus]

The Ruby thing I was ok with, because now if you go back and watch this season again she will come of as pusher who got Sam hooked and went on to play him like a fiddle.

I like how Castiel did the right thing. I'm glad he will be a part of the cast next season. I just hope Anna comes back next year. Its to bad she wasn't use tonight.

I question the Dean destiny thing. Is there more to that. Is there some thing about Dean that makes it have to be him. Maybe in the same way that Sam had to be the one to do what he did.

[Lord of Denial]

The Ruby thing I was ok with, because now if you go back and watch this season again she will come of as pusher who got Sam hooked and went on to play him like a fiddle.

I like how Castiel did the right thing. I'm glad he will be a part of the cast next season. I just hope Anna comes back next year. Its to bad she wasn't use tonight.

I question the Dean destiny thing. Is there more to that. Is there some thing about Dean that makes it have to be him. Maybe in the same way that Sam had to be the one to do what he did.

Maybe it is the same deal as Lillith, she was the first demon and only she could break the last seal cause she was the last seal, Dean is the one who started it all so he can be the only one that ends it.

[Legato]

The Ruby thing I was ok with, because now if you go back and watch this season again she will come of as pusher who got Sam hooked and went on to play him like a fiddle.

.

I disliked how the Ruby thing went. That and that whole Sam episode mirrors the Dark Willow arc in Buffy Season 6.

Sam was naturaly using his powers without the blood but they had to use it for the drug analogy:rolleyes:

[Legato]

I know one thing I have learned from Supernatural. If you have a strong and interesting female character then chances are she is going to end up getting killed or put on a bus.

Really it's not good being a female on Supernatural

[WyldCard4]

So...

Hell on Earth.

Makes me wonder if the show will get retooled somehow next season like Season 5 of Angel, post apocalypse Supernatural.

So, I remember it was mentioned that Castiel will be a regular next season, or at least his actor will be, meaning at least whatever is inside Jimmy will be important.

Lucifer has Risen, Hell on Earth, the End Begins.

As a guess, the entire in universe Supernatural Season 5 will be anything beyond images of torture is that Lucifer is very grateful to Sam Winchester indeed.

[Legato]

So...

Hell on Earth.

Makes me wonder if the show will get retooled somehow next season like Season 5 of Angel, post apocalypse Supernatural.

So, I remember it was mentioned that Castiel will be a regular next season, or at least his actor will be, meaning at least whatever is inside Jimmy will be important.

Lucifer has Risen, Hell on Earth, the End Begins.

As a guess, the entire in universe Supernatural Season 5 will be anything beyond images of torture is that Lucifer is very grateful to Sam Winchester indeed.

Not good to be Sam and Dean thats for sure. You have both demon and angel hunting them.

Atleast they have Castiel assisting them

[Lord of Denial]

Not good to be Sam and Dean thats for sure. You have both demon and angel hunting them.

Atleast they have Castiel assisting them

Great, they get the one Angel that can't fight for shit watching their backs.

[WyldCard4]

Great, they get the one Angel that can't fight for shit watching their backs.

Wrong if Ruby is telling the Truth.

They have Lucifer.

According to Ruby, Lucifer is going to reward Sam, and they wouldn't have left us with that if there wasn't truth to it, especially as otherwise Lucifer would be just about to destroy them both.

It probably won't be much given how much the world sucks in universe, but it might be enough.

[Farealmer]

Truth be told i had no problem with Ruby nor wanted her dead until she shut the door on Dean. It was then that i knew she needed to f'in die. I am so freakin glad they killed her after that, when Sam's powers were out i though for sure she'd get away or Lucy would take her with him when he went out on a rampage. But she just couldn't resist gloating, i was so glad she got stupid and decided to act all "i won and the world's gonna end and i tricked you but we should be cool with each other now". I love how Dean said "i don't care" and stabbed her that way win or lose she won't see neither Lucifer nor the war. I have to say though up until she started blathering on about how she was really loyal even though noone but Lilith knew it i thought she was in it with the corrupt angels.

Either way i'am glad for once a villain dies right after they piss off the audience, that doesn't happen enough. Especially in Supernatural.

[Legato]

Truth be told i had no problem with Ruby nor wanted her dead until she shut the door on Dean. It was then that i knew she needed to f'in die. I am so freakin glad they killed her after that, when Sam's powers were out i though for sure she'd get away or Lucy would take her with him when he went out on a rampage. But she just couldn't resist gloating, i was so glad she got stupid and decided to act all "i won and the world's gonna end and i tricked you but we should be cool with each other now". I love how Dean said "i don't care" and stabbed her that way win or lose she won't see neither Lucifer nor the war. I have to say though up until she started blathering on about how she was really loyal even though noone but Lilith knew it i thought she was in it with the corrupt angels.

Either way i'am glad for once a villain dies right after they piss off the audience, that doesn't happen enough. Especially in Supernatural.

While predictable I was glad that Dean shut Ruby up. I wonder how will they get out of that situation concerning Lucifer since they are taking a front row seat at his arrival.

[Farealmer]

While predictable I was glad that Dean shut Ruby up. I wonder how will they get out of that situation concerning Lucifer since they are taking a front row seat at his arrival.
The thing is i don't care to see demon's not evil. Frankly after Ruby's explaination for how they were created i considered it plot faint whenever it happened. These are people essentially tortured into insanity with techniques that no human has experienced on Earth let alone would realitically be capable of handling. It'd be like a schizo that needs 5 pills a day to keep from ripping people eyes out suddenly not being insane just from deciding not to. I was willing to pass on Ruby simply because she was still sociopathic.

[tjarvis]

The predictable resolution regarding Ruby. I would much rather have it that not all demons are evil bastards. Guess even Supernatural had to be predictable sometimes

I actually liked that point. To me, the predicatable thing would have been to say that some Demons are not that bad. We've been inundated with that type of character in media lately to the point of it becoming a cliche.

The fact that a demon is a demon is evil is actually refreshing.

And yeah, I'm guessing Lucipher spares Sam, and by extension Dean, out of gratitude for helping him get free. Like I said, this was predictable, but it still makes for good symmetrical writing. What Dean began, Sam would end. They are Alpha and Omega, and thus they are the ones who eventually stop Lucipher as well.

I'm guessing God makes an appearance before the show is over next year. He's not as MIA as everyone believes. He's just watching and waiting for people to make the right choice. A little bit of Jacob if you will. It'd be funny if Bobby was actually God, trying to nudge the Winchester's in the right direction all along. Or maybe Rufus.

[kane]

So Lilith knew from the beginning on she was going to die? Is it not a little to selfless for a demon to sacrifice herself for another demon?

[Gusticles]

so what was the point of the Angels pulling Dean out of Hell? He had this 'destiny,' but it seems in the end the Angels only wanted to keep him out of the way of Sam killing Lilith. He was needed to break the first seal in hell, but then it seemed he didn't do anything of note afterwards for the angels purpose.

I may just be missing something, so I apologize if my question is obvious.

[Red Lotus]

The question I have now for next season is where is God.



Maybe it is the same deal as Lillith, she was the first demon and only she could break the last seal cause she was the last seal, Dean is the one who started it all so he can be the only one that ends it.

I'm just having a hard time buying the fact that Dean or his father are righteous men. Being hunters shouldn't make them righteous men. I just hope there is some thing else to that.


Not good to be Sam and Dean thats for sure. You have both demon and angel hunting them.

Atleast they have Castiel assisting them

Well the Angels still need Dean. The funny thing is they might have been more screwed if Dean had made it in time to save Lilith.


So Lilith knew from the beginning on she was going to die? Is it not a little to selfless for a demon to sacrifice herself for another demon?

Lilith did have doubts. She wanted to call the whole thing off, just save her own butt. It gets to a point where its to late, and there is nothing she could have did.

[Captain Smith]

Don't you think that the demons and angels are really like a battle of two tribes rather than pure good and evil. The angels, while not seen to be baby killers and torturers, aren't exactly saints and have venial motivations for power, esp. God seems removed from their actions on a day to day basis.

Few angels have even seen God from the stories. Interesting to see if Lucifer's rise just leads to more crazy stuff happening in the bounds of normal experience (like psychos killing folks) or whether we get major supernatural monsters and effects over the world. BTW, you would think that places like the Vatican would have been tuned into to all of these over the centuries - not just a set of hillbilly hunters.

But that's detracting from a good story line. It's fun - not to think to deeply. Buffy had the same problem.

[Lord of Denial]

So Lilith knew from the beginning on she was going to die? Is it not a little to selfless for a demon to sacrifice herself for another demon?

Lucifer is her creator and father, and is not a demon at all.

I see it the same as you and I sacrificing ourself for our faith in God. Lucifer is Lilltihs god.

[G. Wayne]

so what was the point of the Angels pulling Dean out of Hell? He had this 'destiny,' but it seems in the end the Angels only wanted to keep him out of the way of Sam killing Lilith. He was needed to break the first seal in hell, but then it seemed he didn't do anything of note afterwards for the angels purpose.

I may just be missing something, so I apologize if my question is obvious.

The explanation did get a little wonky once Zacariah started going off into "Ha ha! Fooled ya!" territory. According to the angels, Dean is destined/fated to defeat the risen Lucifer. Which would give the angels the "win" in the apocalypse. I think.

[Legato]

The explanation did get a little wonky once Zacariah started going off into "Ha ha! Fooled ya!" territory. According to the angels, Dean is destined/fated to defeat the risen Lucifer. Which would give the angels the "win" in the apocalypse. I think.

So this boils down to Dean becoming the hero while Sam becomes the butt monkey. Nice.

Hope this wont mean Sam taking the backseat in the finale.

[Red Lotus]

So this boils down to Dean becoming the hero while Sam becomes the butt monkey. Nice.

Hope this wont mean Sam taking the backseat in the finale.

Butt monkey is better then Sam being Lucifer vessel.

[Legato]

Butt monkey is better then Sam being Lucifer vessel.

But Supernatural is supposed to be about both Sam and Dean Winchester. Not about Dean. Yet by looking at it Sam is kinda being overshadowed.

[G. Wayne]

But Supernatural is supposed to be about both Sam and Dean Winchester. Not about Dean. Yet by looking at it Sam is kinda being overshadowed.

Sam has been overshadowed, but we also don't know how Lucifer's going to play into things; how he rewards Sam, or whatever twist they come up with.

[Legato]

Sam has been overshadowed, but we also don't know how Lucifer's going to play into things; how he rewards Sam, or whatever twist they come up with.

Whatever it is I dont want Dean to be the only one basking in the glory. Sam screwed up big time but I would like next season to be that he stopped the apocalyps in some way.

That doesn't mean I want Dean to take the back seat either just that I dont want the final Season to be all about Dean

[marshal99]

So Lucifer rises , he should go possessed that old fart Bobby and then Bobby can be the big bad for a change. :wink:

[Legato]

So Lucifer rises , he should go possessed that old fart Bobby and then Bobby can be the big bad for a change. :wink:

Got something against old people or something?

[WyldCard4]

Got something against old people or something?

Um, besides the term old fart he was actually saying Bobby should be the Big Bad of the season, far from hating the character.

That might indeed be awesome to have Bobby as a Big Bad.

[Legato]

Um, besides the term old fart he was actually saying Bobby should be the Big Bad of the season, far from hating the character.

That might indeed be awesome to have Bobby as a Big Bad.

You should check out his comments in the wrestling thread sometime. Especially ones regarding Ric Flair:wink:

On topic I dont know about Bobby being the big bad. For one what would Lucifer want with someone like Bobby anyway. If I were Lucifer I would feel that Bobby isn't even someone worth possessing. That and I wouldn't want him to be killed as the result of it.

[marshal99]

Why not ? It would be a moral dilemma , evil bobby would be a hoot. Like this season with Dean and Sam except that in this case , Bobby is pure evil - the first evil. Playing off someone familiar against people you loved always makes for a compelling watch.

Besides , the guy playing Castiel confirmed that he's going to be a regular next season. The exiled earthbound angel with 2 humans against the biggest bad of all. Wha could be more better ?

[tjarvis]

Whatever it is I dont want Dean to be the only one basking in the glory. Sam screwed up big time but I would like next season to be that he stopped the apocalyps in some way.

That doesn't mean I want Dean to take the back seat either just that I dont want the final Season to be all about Dean

I don't think that's a concern. For one thing, the angels have clearly been show to not be in possession of all the facts. I think they bit off more than they could chew with Lucipher for example.

Second, the logic that would make Dean the one who could slay Satan would also apply to Sam. Those who cause it are the only ones who can stop it. It will be the Brothers Winchester who save the day, not just one.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

My first thought after the season finale ended was:

"Motherf*****s"

How can they show a cliffhanger like that? I was really hoping to see what Lucifer would look like.

My second thought was :"Yes!!!!!! They didn't kill Bobby."

As for the rest...

Bobby telling Dean to stop acting like a bitch was very cool, because Dean was indeed really bitching. And still I would like to have known some details about the story between Bobby en John. When the brothers first met him they made it clear that Bobby and John were not on good terms.

The phone message was a nasty trick from the angels.

The prophet Chuck made me laugh again. What a character.
But why would the Archangel come to Chuck? And why would he attack Castiel?

Man, that actress playing Lilith really had a demon face. She reminds me of Jaime Pressly but in a demon face kind of way.

Ruby killed. Yes!!! I just didn't like the actress they chose. It would have been much cooler if it had been Katie Cassidy.

And maybe they get rid of female characters in order to not have Supernatural look like a girlie show, because somehow Supernatural got that reputation it's a girlie show. I really liked Jo, I really liked Ellen. I really liked Bella as an antagonist for Dean. I didn't like Ruby, but I liked looking at Katie Cassidy, he he. And where is Ellen? A woman who looks like she could pussywhip the Winchester brothers.

So is Dean an angel now or not?

By the way, is it possible that Dean might have angel blood in him just like Sam has demon blood in him? If both are gonna stop the apocalypse they must be on an even power level.

So, did Sam get his powers due to Azazel's blood or did he always have those powers? It was not clear to me.

I was surprised that Sam held Ruby while Dean gutted her.
That was some nice tag team work.

God MIA sounds like Preacher to me. Maybe Dean will get the voice of god, he he.

Dean punching Cas was so funny.

Dean dropping the vase like a little kid was also funny as hell.

What kind of room was Dean in? Was it a kind of panic room of the angels?

And what is the angle of the angels? Why did they want the apocalypse?

And please. No Vatican people for next season. That would seriously not be cool. Where were they when the hunters were hunting demons? I really don't want to see Vatican people.

Bobby as a big bad would be a very interesting twist. As long as they save them it's fine.

And should Bobby get killed (which I hope doesn't happen) I hope Rufus takes them under their wing. Rufus has to come back.

I just don't know how Castiel will fit into season 5.

Wouldn't a 3 Stooges kind of episode with Sam, Dean and Castiel as stooges be hilarious?

If Rufus is god, how much money does he owe Chris Rock?

Man, I am so psyched up for season 5. So many questions that need to be answers. This summer is gonna be a loooooooooooooooooooong one.

[Lord of Denial]

I don't think that's a concern. For one thing, the angels have clearly been show to not be in possession of all the facts. I think they bit off more than they could chew with Lucipher for example.

Second, the logic that would make Dean the one who could slay Satan would also apply to Sam. Those who cause it are the only ones who can stop it. It will be the Brothers Winchester who save the day, not just one.

That is how I see it as well.

Dean broke the first seal and Sam broke the last, seem clear that both are needed to defeat Lucifer as both major players in his release.

[Surtur]

I have to say, once again, was anyone really surprised that Ruby was evil? She got killed by Lillith, but then Lillith let's her come back???

That should of been a red flag for EVERYONE. If Lillith is so big and bad, why would she constantly be fooled? I always thought Ruby was up to something. Perhaps trying to become the new Lillith(i.e. most powerful demon) and serve Lucifer, or something.

Also we're at the point where they have to be predictable. Demon's being purely evil: predictable. One demon defying all the odds to become good? Predictable and actually a bit corny. I have no problem with Ruby being evil, it's in her nature. It's like the scorpion and the frog, any stories end with the scorpion not stinging the frog and them being friends? Nope.

I'm actually once again at a loss. I am disappointed with the way the finale ended, but at the same time..I know it has to be this way. I mean, everyone had to know Lucifer would be released. We still have at least another season left, and I don't think the final season would of been that great if the good guys won. I mean, sure, maybe they'd be pissed at the angel's? But this episode showed us they can't fight the angels unless the angels allow it.

So we had a few ways it could end. One, Lucifer gets released, and then by the episodes end, he is defeated. That's cliche and unrealistic. A powerhouse like Lucifer shouldn't be put down in a single episode. Otherwise we have Lucifer released and the finale ending that way. At least then we have something to look forward to. I'm also kinda glad they didn't show Lucifer yet, it gives you one more thing to look forward to.

As for Dean overshadowing Sam? I don't think that's the case. Sure, it was Dean who was said to stop everything, but that would of been impossible without Sam. Dean has no way to kill Lillith, we needed Sam for that. Just like the situations this season where nothing but Sam's powers saved them from getting killed or releasing some really horrible stuff. I don't think this is Sam getting overshadowed, just showing us they have different roles to play.

If things had gone differently, maybe Sam would be their man? But when he started drinking demon blood, they couldn't trust him. It went to Dean by default. Plus remember, if his Dad had began to torture people in hell? It would of been the father back, instead of Dean. I think the point was, they need each other. No matter their mind sets. If Dean was there when Sam was killing Lillith, he would of seen something is up, he would of said hey maybe this is too easy. Just like if Sam was with Dean they maybe could of fought off the angels.

Also, how powerful is Castiel? If he can fight off arch angels and god knows who else was coming? Hopefully he'll be a regular this next season. They're going to *need* an angel on their side to help them. They can't rely on the prophet, since he's guarded by angel's.

[Lord of Denial]

I don't think Castial is all that powerful.

Hell is there even a fight he got into that he actually won?

Or even looked good in?

[Surtur]

I don't think Castial is all that powerful.

Hell is there even a fight he got into that he actually won?

Or even looked good in?

I'm just going off a few things:

When Uriel wanted him to join their side, he said something like "we could really use your power".

Then, in the finale, the angels were coming after them, including arch angels. The fact that he was able to hold them off should say something. Sure he's had a few bad showings, but he's still an angel.

[Lord of Denial]

I'm just going off a few things:

When Uriel wanted him to join their side, he said something like "we could really use your power".

Then, in the finale, the angels were coming after them, including arch angels. The fact that he was able to hold them off should say something. Sure he's had a few bad showings, but he's still an angel.

We don't know that he held off the Arch Angel, they had not come yet when Dean left.

[Assassin Spider]

And what is the angle of the angels? Why did they want the apocalypse?

Simple answer: They think the world has gone to hell in a handbasket (semi-literally) since humans began to populate it and they think humanity has wasted the gifts God gave them. The more sympathetic angels, like Castiel, see humanity as drowning in the pain caused by its "imperfect" state and believe that if they were to emerge triumphant from the apocalypse, they would be able to reshape the world in a manner that would reflect the "true potential" of humanity . . . under their "benevolent" guidance, of course. The less sympathetic angels likely just think that humanity's had its run and proved woefully wanting, so it's their job to clear away the detritus and start fresh in the belief that whatever survivors there are from the "old Earth" will be too awestruck and grateful just to be alive to resist being subjugated by the Heavenly Hosts.

[felix77]

Castiel by his very nature as an Angel is one of the more powerful entities in the Supernatural Universe. He's just no match for upper level powers like Alistiar, Zachariah and Lilith.

However he'll have no trouble taking out 3-4 mid level demons singlehandedly.

[Lord of Denial]

Castiel by his very nature as an Angel is one of the more powerful entities in the Supernatural Universe. He's just no match for upper level powers like Alistiar, Zachariah and Lilith.

However he'll have no trouble taking out 3-4 mid level demons singlehandedly.

True.

I could see him keeping the lower level demons in check while Sam and Dean deal with Lucifer.

I am kind of think it would be awesome if Sam, Dean and Castial, could trick The Trickster into a confrontation with Lucifer, not to defeat him by to buy them some time to figure out a way to do it themselves.


And who else wants a spin-off with The Prophet Chuck?

[Legato]

True.

I could see him keeping the lower level demons in check while Sam and Dean deal with Lucifer.

I am kind of think it would be awesome if Sam, Dean and Castial, could trick The Trickster into a confrontation with Lucifer, not to defeat him by to buy them some time to figure out a way to do it themselves.


And who else wants a spin-off with The Prophet Chuck?

I wouldn't mind that. Probably have Castiel co-star in it.

[WyldCard4]

True.

I could see him keeping the lower level demons in check while Sam and Dean deal with Lucifer.

I am kind of think it would be awesome if Sam, Dean and Castial, could trick The Trickster into a confrontation with Lucifer, not to defeat him by to buy them some time to figure out a way to do it themselves.


And who else wants a spin-off with The Prophet Chuck?

Not exactly sure how Chuck could carry a series...

Chuck and Castiel would be awesome Legato, but the same, I just don't see a whole series out of the two for TV, maybe a miniseries or webcomic but not a whole spin-off.

[Legato]

Not exactly sure how Chuck could carry a series...

Chuck and Castiel would be awesome Legato, but the same, I just don't see a whole series out of the two for TV, maybe a miniseries or webcomic but not a whole spin-off.

Chuck and Castiel shared some good chemistry. Like during the finale when Castiel was going to hold the Archangels off him and Chuck was awaiting the Archangels arrival. Chuck placed a hand on Castiel's shoulder while Castiel gave Chuck a " dont touch me" look then Chuck removed his hand from his shoulder.

To be honest if Supernatural were to have a series I would like it if Bobby had a spin-off. Thare is still stuff about Bobby that we dont know about so a series that focus on a younger Bobby would be nice. Especially if this would give us a chance to look into his relationship with John Winchester because I know that Bobby and John parted on bad terms and it seems that Bobby still kinda holds a grudge towards John

[Legato]

One thing I have to know.

In a few seasons before this one, back when YED opened the gates of hell, John Winchester escaped.

So does this mean that John is in heaven now? If not then does this mean that John Winchester is probably wandering the earth as a demon?

John being a demon, now that would definitly be ironic. Given what Sam went through this season and what Dean feared he would become in the last season

[WyldCard4]

One thing I have to know.

In a few seasons before this one, back when YED opened the gates of hell, John Winchester escaped.

So does this mean that John is in heaven now? If not then does this mean that John Winchester is probably wandering the earth as a demon?

John being a demon, now that would definitly be ironic. Given what Sam went through this season and what Dean feared he would become in the last season
I got the impression that John and the other ghost looking things coming out of Hell were like ghosts, which is why they looked like ghosts instead of black smoke, John being a ghost is possible, but demon seems unlikely from what I saw, not impossible though.

Chuck and Castiel shared some good chemistry. Like during the finale when Castiel was going to hold the Archangels off him and Chuck was awaiting the Archangels arrival. Chuck placed a hand on Castiel's shoulder while Castiel gave Chuck a " dont touch me" look then Chuck removed his hand from his shoulder.

To be honest if Supernatural were to have a series I would like it if Bobby had a spin-off. Thare is still stuff about Bobby that we dont know about so a series that focus on a younger Bobby would be nice. Especially if this would give us a chance to look into his relationship with John Winchester because I know that Bobby and John parted on bad terms and it seems that Bobby still kinda holds a grudge towards John
Just don't see them holding a whole series myself, very good characters in the greater world but for their own series...

Just not Angel and Cordelia, might work with another character added into the mix though.

[Red Lotus]

I don't think that's a concern. For one thing, the angels have clearly been show to not be in possession of all the facts. I think they bit off more than they could chew with Lucipher for example.

Second, the logic that would make Dean the one who could slay Satan would also apply to Sam. Those who cause it are the only ones who can stop it. It will be the Brothers Winchester who save the day, not just one.


Have they been shown not to have all the facts or not tell Dean the truth about the facts that they have.




So is Dean an angel now or not?

By the way, is it possible that Dean might have angel blood in him just like Sam has demon blood in him? If both are gonna stop.

This is some thing I was wondering about. I still can't see any way that Dean would be a righteous man


If Rufus is god, how much money does he owe Chris Rock?

I should have thought of that. God is playing skee-ball. The dude takes a break to just chill and the whole world goes to hell.

[Nate Grey]

Well last night I watched the eps I missed (they were just sitting in my DVR and I didn't have time time until now) in one sitting. That would be "Jump The Shark" all the way up to the season finale.

WOW.

I have really been very impressed with this season of Supernatural (last season too, in fact, but this season and last are the only ones I've watched all the way through). I don't think there was a single misstep. Even the so-called "fluff" stories progressed the main stories in some way.

"Jump The Shark" was just...sad. Very good, but sad. :frown: I wish that kid was actually their brother, but at least their little brother actually existed and got a Hunter's Burial. Does make me wonder if John sprinkled some of his seeds all across the US/world. Heck, that could be a spin-off in and of itself, about his legion of children. :biggrin:

Like the stuff about the angels, and I'm thinking they're ruling themselves. I think God is testing THEM somehow and Dean and Sam are in the crossfires. I think Zachariah is second in command to whomever is really calling the shots (Gabriel, perhaps?). Just a theory, but I like where the show is going.

The finale was good. And I like Sam and Dean's quickie team-up to kill Ruby. :biggrin:

No complaints. And glad Castiel/Jimmy is gonna be a regular next season. However, like another poster said, every time I see Bobby I'm always scared its the LAST time I see him, given the nature of the show.

[Legato]

Well last night I watched the eps I missed (they were just sitting in my DVR and I didn't have time time until now) in one sitting. That would be "Jump The Shark" all the way up to the season finale.

WOW.

I have really been very impressed with this season of Supernatural (last season too, in fact, but this season and last are the only ones I've watched all the way through). I don't think there was a single misstep. Even the so-called "fluff" stories progressed the main stories in some way.

"Jump The Shark" was just...sad. Very good, but sad. :frown: I wish that kid was actually their brother, but at least their little brother actually existed and got a Hunter's Burial. Does make me wonder if John sprinkled some of his seeds all across the US/world. Heck, that could be a spin-off in and of itself, about his legion of children. :biggrin:

Like the stuff about the angels, and I'm thinking they're ruling themselves. I think God is testing THEM somehow and Dean and Sam are in the crossfires. I think Zachariah is second in command to whomever is really calling the shots (Gabriel, perhaps?). Just a theory, but I like where the show is going.

The finale was good. And I like Sam and Dean's quickie team-up to kill Ruby. :biggrin:

No complaints. And glad Castiel/Jimmy is gonna be a regular next season. However, like another poster said, every time I see Bobby I'm always scared its the LAST time I see him, given the nature of the show.

If next season happens to be the last season it makes me even more scared for Bobby. It is like they are keeping him alive till they reach the final episode. I have this feeling he is going to be a victim of Lucifer

[Nate Grey]

If next season happens to be the last season it makes me even more scared for Bobby. It is like they are keeping him alive till they reach the final episode. I have this feeling he is going to be a victim of Lucifer

The way I figure it, if Bobby has lasted THIS long, if he does bite it next season, it'll be for the 100th episode.

[WyldCard4]

Hm...

I don't think Dean has angelic blood inside him, doesn't fit with the angels we've seen.

I think Dean is righteous enough to have devoted his entire life to suffering for the good of others, assuming it isn't holy righteousness he's about as good as it gets.

[Legato]

Hm...

I don't think Dean has angelic blood inside him, doesn't fit with the angels we've seen.

I think Dean is righteous enough to have devoted his entire life to suffering for the good of others, assuming it isn't holy righteousness he's about as good as it gets.

That and I dont see any sign of Dean possessing angel blood. I wouldn't like the idea of Dean having powers like Sam personally. Dean is the anchor that keeps Sam from embracing his demon side and Dean being human helps out with that

[Libaax]

First i dont understand why Dean wouldnt be righteous man just because he kills specially when its evil things that would destroy many human life otherwise.
I thought it showed that he got angry about what would happen to the actual humans in the heaven,hell war. Thats why the angels choosed him.

WyldCard4 i agree with, its that he has devoted his entire life to the good of others.

About the finale it was amazing. Only predictable thing was how Ruby worked with Lillith and co. Dean being chosen as a holy fighther in the war to kill the devil and Sam becoming himself again and everything was pure awesome.

The angels attitude really was a nice surprise. Saying its enough and lets have a war. Very political,cold. Sounded very biblical. Being cold to humans life,promising paradise on earth.

[Red Lotus]

Hm...

I don't think Dean has angelic blood inside him, doesn't fit with the angels we've seen.

I think Dean is righteous enough to have devoted his entire life to suffering for the good of others, assuming it isn't holy righteousness he's about as good as it gets.

Is that all it takes. So some one like Gordon would haven been righteous then. I haven't watch the show from the start, but going back to before the whole demon blood sam stuff started. If you had to pick out of John, Dean and Sam who would be righteous I would pick Sam.

If thats all it takes to be righteous then why haven't the demons gotten some hunter to go to hell and see if he sheds blood. I'm not sure if its Angel blood, but I'm think there is more to it then just being a hunter.

[marshal99]

That and I dont see any sign of Dean possessing angel blood. I wouldn't like the idea of Dean having powers like Sam personally. Dean is the anchor that keeps Sam from embracing his demon side and Dean being human helps out with that

When Castiel cut himself , i was half expecting him to ask Dean to drink from him like what Sam has done with Nuby.

[Legato]

When Castiel cut himself , i was half expecting him to ask Dean to drink from him like what Sam has done with Nuby.

Same here. Yet with Castiel being an angel he would be against that sort of thing since that is something a demon would do.

[WyldCard4]

Same here. Yet with Castiel being an angel he would be against that sort of thing since that is something a demon would do.

Castiel did pretty much Fall right then and there, he disobeyed the orders of his Superiors directly, him having Dean drink his blood would have been a good method of showing it.

Pride is Lucifer's sin, something Castiel showed there in believing he could stop Lucifer's rise and defeat his Superiors, something Dean and Sam both show more than any other.

While they didn't go with it, I would have accepted Castiel feeding Dean his blood.

I'm just looking forward to next season to see how they handle this.

As a guess...

Things get even worse.

[WyldCard4]

Is that all it takes. So some one like Gordon would haven been righteous then. I haven't watch the show from the start, but going back to before the whole demon blood sam stuff started. If you had to pick out of John, Dean and Sam who would be righteous I would pick Sam.

If thats all it takes to be righteous then why haven't the demons gotten some hunter to go to hell and see if he sheds blood. I'm not sure if its Angel blood, but I'm think there is more to it then just being a hunter.

As a guess, Gordon isn't in Hell.

IIRC the only people we know are in Hell are people chained by deals with demons, a very small portion of humanity as a whole finding a righteous enough man out of those is going to be fairly hard.

And they did exactly what you said, they got "some hunter" (John) to go to Hell, no blood, so they tried Dean, they got blood.

In order to break the Seals they needed at the very least a demonic child with the power to destroy Lilith, at least one rare astronomical event, and a righteous man in Hell, they actually did everything surprisingly quickly and efficiently given how much they needed to do.