Who was the better Joker?

[Preus]

Jack Nicholson or Heath Ledger?

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I can't even begin to say how great both Joker's were. Jack Nicholson's Joker really had a taste for the theatrics, and he was borderline nuts. Not to mention I found the look very creepy and Jack Nicholson's Joker is the main reason we got the animated Joker of the 1990's. Even as I watch Batman {1989) now, I'm still enjoying every second of Jack's performance as the Joker. However, I do think Heath Ledger topped him and was better than his Joker by a long shot. Basically, one of the main reasons I liked Heath's Joker more was because he was a hell of a lot more physical. He's someone you don't want to mess with and getting into a fight with him won't pose well because he's a guy that thrives on pain, so the more he receives the more pumped he gets. His methods were also better and his Joker was all around smarter. He turned the city completely upside down and basically took over Gotham's mob. The guy was amazing to watch, and he's currently the best comic movie villain of all time, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

[joe27]

Both were good, but Nicholson is more what I think of when I think of the Joker (except for his advanced age).

Ledger's portrayal was interesting, but I sort of felt he was a character who killed the original Joker and then took his place or something.

[rick]

Cesar Romero

[Alan2099]

Nicholson's Joker all the way. he actually felt like the Joker. I got no feel of style or humor from Ledger's version and that design is just plain ugly.

The TV comercial for Smile-X, the Art defacing dance scene, THAT is the kind of stuff I picture Joker doing when I think of the character.

Ledger's character wasn't bad, it would have made a good villia if they had called him anything BUT Joker, and considring how he lacked typical Joker apperances, personality, weapons, origins, or anything of the type, I wonder why they even bothered (other than blatant name recognition.)

[Enjoypolydor]

Cesar Romero
Agreed. But I say Heath over Jack.

[The Joker]

Both are great, though two very different portrayals of the same character.

Overall, Jack's Joker felt more Joker-ish to me. And in Nolan's "heightened reality" world of Gotham, Ledger's Joker worked beautifully. And needless to say, I absolutely loved Heath's very memorable performance in the film.

[ThreeDays]

Jack did a good job with what he was given, but I prefer Nolan's take on the character. Also, Heath was honestly just more fun to watch for me. The mannerisms (the tongue thing especially), tone, the way he walked, all of it.

I also honestly prefer this unkempt look, along with the almost infected appearance his scars had.

[HaroldAllnut]

I'm gonna have to throw it down for Mr. Ledger's performance. Nicholson's performance was good, but Ledger's voice and mannerisms just captivated me more than Nicholson's.

Nicholson's Joker was good acting; Ledger's Joker was a man becoming someone else entirely.

[Preus]

Ledger disappeared into the role, Nicholson didn't. And Romero is the worst Joker of all time, he sucks. You'll never see him included in any Jokerized poll I do.

Anywho, as I've already said, both were great in the role, but Ledger brought more to the role than Jack.

[the goddamn batman]

and considring how he lacked typical Joker apperances,

Yeah, his face wasn't white, his hair wasn't green, his lips weren't read, his suit wasn't purple, he never smiled or laughed...

personality,

Yeah, he wasn't a psychopathic, homocidal maniac...

weapons,

The grenades at the bank heist were pretty Joker-ish... as are guns, bombs, knives, random objects for beating people with... I dunno, he might not have had a joy buzzer or the BANG! gun, but Joker's hardly been limited to those things either.

origins,

Smorigins.

I wonder why they even bothered (other than blatant name recognition.)

You should go read the first two Joker stories. That's the character in TDK.

It might not be the typical Joker from most every other story... well, it takes elements here and there, but it is the original Joker. That's just as valid as any other Joker in any other story.

And Romero is the worst Joker of all time, he sucks. You'll never see him included in any Jokerized poll I do.

AHA HA HA HA AH HA HA HA AHA HA HE HA HA HA AHA HE HE HA HA HA!!!

[stillanerd]

To me, it's depends on how you prefer the Joker to be, and it also depends on the environment you set-up. Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker just wouldn't fit in the quasi-realistic world of Nolan's Batman films, and Heath Ledger's version of the Joker would be too dark for even Burton's surreal Gothic fantasy set-up in his Batman films. Nicholson definitely had the one liners, not to mention his hilarious "Smilex" TV ad, and certainly his origin his far closer to the original comic books, what with being chemically bleached and all. Ledger, on the other hand, is far closer in terms of the Joker's modus operandi than Nicholson's was. For all the zany antics and insanity of Nicholson's Joker, it's clear that his stated goal was to simply control the mob in his own way, which the Joker in the comics never was really after. Ledger, on the other hand (not to mention the Nolan brother's script) had it right on the money. The Joker, while he looked like mangy street mime, was far closer to what the comic book version of the Joker is, IMO. This is guy who is not only insane, find humor in things not all that funny, and is perfectly willing to kill his own henchmen when it suits his purposes, but he's also underestimated as a "freak" or a "crazy clown in a purple suit" and that he uses that to his advantage to conduct not only terrorism but psychological warfare, not for any personal gain but for the sheer enjoyment of it. Nicholson's Joker, for all practical purposes, was a mad mob enforcer rising through the ranks, while Ledger's Joker was a mad anarchist who manipulated others in order to create mayhem and chaos.

[shinshinobi]

You can't really compare the two because both appeared in a different genre. Although both were Batman films, Tim Burton's Batman was more like a fantasy. Thus, Jack is better on that film. Imagine Heath Ledger on Tim Burton's film. Doesn't look good right? So Heath is for the Dark knight and Jack is for Batman.

[InfiniteCombo]

I'll take Ledger/Nolan's take on the character over Tim "I don't read comic books," Burton/Nicholson's take any day. Ledger's Joker not only nailed the first physical contact Batman and the Joker ever had in the comics, but he took it up a notch. In fact that's not really a big deal, but when I saw how it was done I loved the nod to the comics. Everything about the Joker in the Dark Knight represents the Joker from the comics. He wanted nothing more than to get the entire world to look through his eyes, and to get Batman to love him, so to speak.

The Joker has always wanted The Batman's (and pretty much the entire world's) attention. Everything he does is to gain more attention, and I think Ledger's Joker hit that on the head. The Joker has always been the type of villain to give the head's up to his plans, so more people can be witness to his twisted acts. I think Nicholson and Burton just came up with an over-the-top version of the usual Nicholson act. To be honest, I think the part where he's going around painting was horribly cheesy, and didn't come off cool as the Joker truly is.

Also did anyone like the nod to the 89' Batman/Joker chicken scene? Instead of Batman coming at the Joker in the Batwing, he had the Batpod. I liked the nod. Ledger/Nolan just took everything great about every Joker out there, and put them together. As a kid growing up I loved the 89' Batman, and Jack's Joker, but after reading up as I grew older I hoped for a better take. Heath and the Nolan Brothers brought me that take.

I vote Ledger. All about the subtle things (The way he mouthed the number "six," the way he reacted to his henchmen getting electrocuted, the way his voice changes with every word he says).

[lonewolf23k]

Ledger Joker all the way for me. Nicholson Joker just felt like Nicholson playing the Joker, while Ledger Joker was the Joker.

Also, I never found Nicholson half as creepy as Ledger was in the role, which is how one should feel when in the presence of a crazed killer in a clown costume, really.

[Major Danger]

I felt Ledger was over hyped. Sure he was good at playing the psychopathic side of the Joker but he really wasn't all that funny. I felt the only time he really found the Joker's soul was at the end when Batman had him hanging upside down, that was close to the Joker's core, he and Batman have a symbiotic relationship and there Heath nailed it. The jail scene could have been any crazed criminal. Ledger's Joker was angry an suicidal, he forgot one prime ingredient: The Joker is Funny! Not standup comedian funny, but still funny. The only time he approached that was the "pencil trick" The Joker would blow up a hospital but it had to be part of the joke. Read the Batman issue for Dec 2007 when the Christmas hat wearing Joker kidnaps Robin and drives him around in a mini-van full of presents and the dead mom and dad he had killed to take the van. He goes to a drive thru gives an elaborate order and when the girl asks him to repeat it he demands to see the manager, and shoots him dead. As he drives off he mutters: "And I really wanted one of those shakes, too." Then he cackles hysterically. You can see the terror in Robin's eyes and the pure homicidal glee in the Joker's. I missed that from Ledger's Joker, and he hardly laughed. That;s one of the Joker's trademarks his haunting laugh. The Joker was laughing long before melodramatic villians of the B movie serials made it a cliche. Ledger's Joker was good, but he was off the mark.

One guy who seems to have been eclipsed by Heath Ledger's untimely demise is Aaron Eckhart, his Two-Face was astounding. I hope he returns.

[joe the baker]

Heath Ledger for me. Jack Nicholson just played Jack Nicholson prancing around in silly make up.
Heaths was much more like the real Joker. Heaths was the Joker that struck terror into the hearts of every citizen, that brought an entire city to its knees. When I watched the movie I felt it really conveyed the message of just how much of a hopeless struggle it was trying to out think the Jokers plans. I didn`t get that from Jack Nicholons portrayal of the character.
To throw another name into the mix aside from Cesar Romano. I always preferred Mark Hammils Joker over Jacks also. Mark was obviously extremely limted in what he could do give the restraints of his platfrom but I felt he got much closer to the "real" Joker than Nicholson.

[Nefarius]

One guy who seems to have been eclipsed by Heath Ledger's untimely demise is Aaron Eckhart, his Two-Face was astounding. I hope he returns.


I agree.It's shame that most people ignore Eckhart's Dent.I found his character one of the most interesting in the whole film.

Back to topic.While i prefer Ledger's Joker i didn't find him as funny as Nicholson.While Ledger capture most of Joker attributes(manipulator,strategic mind etc) he wasn't as funny as other Joker versions.I think i loved in Nicholson's Joker is that he was unpredictable.He would look to you campy and funny but suddenly he can kill you without expecting it.He can change mood quite easy and for ridiculous reasons.That's scary for me.Ledger on the other hand looked evil and unstable and you know that he's going to harm you sooner or later.

[Alan2099]

Ledger Joke just really didn't seem like he was having fun at all. He just wanted to spread chaos. I mean, what's the point of the Joker if he doesn't look like he's having the time of his life?

Hamil, Nicholson, Romero, they all looked like they were havign a blast and that made the characters work. Ledger, not so much.

[Marcus_Maximus]

To me, it's depends on how you prefer the Joker to be, and it also depends on the environment you set-up. Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker just wouldn't fit in the quasi-realistic world of Nolan's Batman films, and Heath Ledger's version of the Joker would be too dark for even Burton's surreal Gothic fantasy set-up in his Batman films. Nicholson definitely had the one liners, not to mention his hilarious "Smilex" TV ad, and certainly his origin his far closer to the original comic books, what with being chemically bleached and all. Ledger, on the other hand, is far closer in terms of the Joker's modus operandi than Nicholson's was. For all the zany antics and insanity of Nicholson's Joker, it's clear that his stated goal was to simply control the mob in his own way, which the Joker in the comics never was really after. Ledger, on the other hand (not to mention the Nolan brother's script) had it right on the money. The Joker, while he looked like mangy street mime, was far closer to what the comic book version of the Joker is, IMO. This is guy who is not only insane, find humor in things not all that funny, and is perfectly willing to kill his own henchmen when it suits his purposes, but he's also underestimated as a "freak" or a "crazy clown in a purple suit" and that he uses that to his advantage to conduct not only terrorism but psychological warfare, not for any personal gain but for the sheer enjoyment of it. Nicholson's Joker, for all practical purposes, was a mad mob enforcer rising through the ranks, while Ledger's Joker was a mad anarchist who manipulated others in order to create mayhem and chaos.

Nailed it right on the head.

[Marcus_Maximus]

Ledger Joke just really didn't seem like he was having fun at all. He just wanted to spread chaos. I mean, what's the point of the Joker if he doesn't look like he's having the time of his life?

Hamil, Nicholson, Romero, they all looked like they were havign a blast and that made the characters work. Ledger, not so much.

I thought the fire truck was funny and I thought the "magic trick" was funny too...after the initial shock. Oh, and the Joker trying to fire that RPG. Classic.

[ThreeDays]

Ledger Joke just really didn't seem like he was having fun at all. He just wanted to spread chaos. I mean, what's the point of the Joker if he doesn't look like he's having the time of his life?

Well, he was having fun spreading chaos. He obviously got a kick out of the "disappearing" pencil trick, and was clearly enjoying himself at the party he crashed, through the entire chase sequence with Harvey, in the interrogation room, at the hospital, and at the end (he was even laughing while falling to his near death).

[Xybernauts]

Most of the views I have about performance have already been stated. Performance aside,, I just liked Heath's appearance. To me he actually looked like the Joker. I understand not every actor can look like the comic book counterpart, but I feel managing to get an actor who can both perform and visually look like their comic book counterpart is a great accomplishment.

To me, Nicholas' obesity significantly detracted from his role as the Joker. Simply put, the Joker isn't fat. Also, I never quite liked the scar on Nicholas' face. I mean I can't even begin to imagine how any plastic surgeon can mess up someones surgery that much. On the one hand, the scar is so perfectly designed that it looks like it was done deliberately, but it isn't supposed to be deliberate; come on! That's what I love about Heath's scar. It looks like a clown's smile, but you can clearly tell it wasn't done deliberately. To me, it makes more sense. It may not conform to comic book canon, but it does improves on it. But that was an accomplishment for the make-up department really.

Also, Heath just had the build of someone who doesn't seem strong at first glance; like the Joker of the comics. He comes across as just being scrawny, but is extremely strong underneath it all. Not as strong as Batman, but strong enough to be threatening. That was a plus also.

Performance wise, I really like the subtlety of Heath's performance. He came across as someone who could really exist. That's why I prefer his performance. Nicholas was just way to over the top. Nicholas was good, but Heath was great.


I think Nicholson and Burton just came up with an over-the-top version of the usual Nicholson act. To be honest, I think the part where he's going around painting was horribly cheesy, and didn't come off cool as the Joker truly is.


I agree totally.

Ledger Joke just really didn't seem like he was having fun at all. He just wanted to spread chaos. I mean, what's the point of the Joker if he doesn't look like he's having the time of his life?

Hamil, Nicholson, Romero, they all looked like they were havign a blast and that made the characters work. Ledger, not so much.

I think he was enjoying himself. but not essentially because everything's a joke to him, but because he finds a false sense of fulfillment in his struggle against Batman. That's what I saw. This struggle gives him a false sense of purpose. That's what makes Ledger's performance so great; he gives us something we can identify with in one way or another. This Joker may not be ha ha funny, but he is sarcastic funny. Where Jack's Joker was an artist, Heath's Joker is a philosopher.

Besides, I think if he had that over the top laugh that we typically expect from the Joker, the laugh would have significantly detracted from Ledge's performance.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Ledger Joke just really didn't seem like he was having fun at all. He just wanted to spread chaos. I mean, what's the point of the Joker if he doesn't look like he's having the time of his life?

Hamil, Nicholson, Romero, they all looked like they were havign a blast and that made the characters work. Ledger, not so much.

I think in terms of Joker humor, it is a bit like comparing humour in general - we have our black, gallows, morbid humour, our dry wit and slapstick and one liners and so on.

Ledger Joker certainly looked a like he was having fun in his own way, but because he is dark it isn't going to come across the same way as the show of humour/fun of Nicholson or Romero (which is great, I like my Joker fun the way I like my Joker pasts - multi-choice).

And as to the actors themselves - well, they are portraying different styles of character. Jack and Cesar definitely had a lot of fun, and could show it because of the characterisation that they were trying to pull of. Ledger couldn't play it up the same way because the characters had different styles. I'd still say he enjoyed it.

But things like the nurse scene, the magic trick or the graffiti on the "Laughter is the Best Medicine" truck still show he the character was enjoying himself/having fun. He was even had a damn good laugh as he fell.

[Floyd The Barber]

Nicholson's was better. More because of script than acting. Ledger did a great acting job no doubt. But Burton's first Batman was just a better movie to me. Sure Dark Knight was very dark, taken very seriously, and very realistic. It just wasn't very much fun.

[InfiniteCombo]

Well, he was having fun spreading chaos. He obviously got a kick out of the "disappearing" pencil trick, and was clearly enjoying himself at the party he crashed, through the entire chase sequence with Harvey, in the interrogation room, at the hospital, and at the end (he was even laughing while falling to his near death).

Or how about when he escapes prison? He looked like he was having a ball sitting in the back seat of that cop car sticking his head out of the window like a dog. How about when he goes to visit Harvey Dent in the hospital? Whoever it was that said the Hospital explosion was supposed to be part of a joke, it was. The Joke was Harvey Dent has now been brought down to the Joker/Batman's level. The explosion was just for funsies. I really think anyone complaining about the lack of humor/enjoyment in the Heath Joker needs a repeat viewing of the film.

[Preus]

Anyone saying Nicholson's Joker being more in depth to the character than Ledger's need to see the movie again. Nicholson was being himself when he became the Joker, Ledger became someone totally different. Nicholson's Joker is someone you laugh at, Ledger's Joker is someone you want to run the hell away from.

And don't even get me started on how physically this would be a curbstomp for Ledger's Joker.

[Alan2099]

Of course Jack was being himself. Maniacal, off the wall, crazed sense of glee, sarcastic, and having the time of his life no matter who he offendes ... that's as much Jack as it the Joker. Why should he not act like that if that's the role? You might as well critisise Robin Williams for playing parts where he makes jokes and does funny voices. If that's not what they wanted, they wouldn't have hired him.

I really think anyone complaining about the lack of humor/enjoyment in the Heath Joker needs a repeat viewing of the film.
No thanks. Once was one time to many for me.

[The Batman]

If Jack was just playing himself as the Joker does this mean that Nicholson's a homocidal maniac who was genius enough to make his own neurotoxin and poison the city with it?

Man, celebrities can get away with anything in Hollywood.

[Alan2099]

If Jack was just playing himself as the Joker does this mean that Nicholson's a homocidal maniac who was genius enough to make his own neurotoxin and poison the city with it?

Man, celebrities can get away with anything in Hollywood.

Yes. That's exactly what it means. Bet you didn't know Jack Nicholson fought Batman and went on killing sprees in his spare time, did you? He's truly the hardest working man in show biz.

[sHayden]

I cast my vote for Ledger. Nicholson's Joker was a great piece of work but when I think of the Joker I think of somebody who would terrify me. Who has no rhyme or reason for what he does except to just do it.
Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker disturbed me deeply. He came across as a man who had lost it, who had no limits, morals, or inhibitions. And to me, that's the Joker.

[The Batman]

Yes. That's exactly what it means. Bet you didn't know Jack Nicholson fought Batman and went on killing sprees in his spare time, did you? He's truly the hardest working man in show biz.

I prefer to think that Jack Nicholson makes movies in his spare time when not battling the Batman or going on killing sprees. Making movies and Laker's games.

The rest of the time though, watch out!

[Preus]

Damn, Ledger has 20 votes on Jack. I honestly thought Jack would've been winning at this point.

[Alan2099]

The new movies still fresh in peoples minds and the actor died during it. I'm not suprised it's getting more votes.

[Captain Jim]

I voted for Ledger, but that doesn't mean I didn't like Nicholson. I think they both did a great job.

[Monty_Cristo]

The new movies still fresh in peoples minds and the actor died during it. I'm not suprised it's getting more votes.

i watched the Burton version yesterday and still voted for Heath Ledger. Jack was just playing Jack with facepaint on. Ledger did his best to actually create a character; someone on Batman's level. i still like Eckhart's version of Dent better than both of them.

[Xybernauts]

The new movies still fresh in peoples minds and the actor died during it. I'm not suprised it's getting more votes.

That's just a cheap shot. It has nothing to do with Heath's death. Deal with it.

[Preus]

People were saying long before he even died that he was gonna surpass Jack, and he did. Some people just can't get over that he brought more depth. Regardless of who you like more, Heath's Joker had much more depth, and the fact that his origins weren't explored made his Joker that much better.

[Alan2099]

That's just a cheap shot. It has nothing to do with Heath's death. Deal with it.

Cheap shot or not, it's hard to ignore that this was his last real role. Even if it's just a subconscious thing. People don't like to speak ill of the dead. It's a simple truth. Deal with it.

[Monty_Cristo]

Cheap shot or not, it's hard to ignore that this was his last real role. Even if it's just a subconscious thing. People don't like to speak ill of the dead. It's a simple truth. Deal with it.

i love to speak ill of the dead. and i still think Heath Ledger's performance blew Jack's out of the water.

[Preus]

There have been a lot of people who don't like to speak ill of the dead but still prefer Nicholson's performance. Fact of the matter is a hell of a lot of people were already saying he was going to top Nicholson's performance and he did just that.

Btw, I only feel it's appropriate to speak ill of the dead when it's scum like a criminal or something.

[ThreeDays]

Cheap shot or not, it's hard to ignore that this was his last real role. Even if it's just a subconscious thing. People don't like to speak ill of the dead. It's a simple truth. Deal with it.

Honestly, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. When Raúl Juliá died, I recall a lot of folks saying how sad it was for him that his last theatrical role was M. Bison in the "Street Fighter" movie. It was a terrible film and he really wasn't that entertaining.

If Heath hadn't done all that well, I think people'd be willing to be honest about it.

[Preus]

My sentiments exactly.

[the goddamn batman]

Honestly, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. When Raúl Juliá died, I recall a lot of folks saying how sad it was for him that his last theatrical role was M. Bison in the "Street Fighter" movie. It was a terrible film and he really wasn't that entertaining.

If Heath hadn't done all that well, I think people'd be willing to be honest about it.


Especially cut-throat comic fans hiding behind screen names on the internet.

This is the same group that talked a bunch of garbage about his ability to do the role before they'd seen even a piture... more once the saw a picture... continued after people like Oldman and Caine said he was brilliant... and shut the $^%# up once they saw it.

Also, not everyone was super kind about his death. Also also, it's Alan2099. Take it for what it's worth.:wink:

[Preus]

Check your PM box. You may be the person who can help me.

[Fruit_Salad_Magic]

Cheap shot or not, it's hard to ignore that this was his last real role. Even if it's just a subconscious thing. People don't like to speak ill of the dead. It's a simple truth. Deal with it.

I really, really doubt that. People genuinely enjoyed Dark Knight and Heath's performance more than Jack's Joker. Me being one of them, and it has nothing to do with me feeling bad for Ledger.

Ledger was just fun to watch and he's, in my mind's eye, exactly as the Joker should be.

... That said, I want more Scarecrow.
"Look what your drugs did to my customers!"
"Buyer beware."

YOU TELL HIM, SCARECROW! YOU TELL THE CHECHEN!

[Preus]

I totally agree. During the entire performance I didn't even think of Ledger because he was so deep into the role.

[Damiean Dark]

They where both great but i prefered Nicholson because his was a more traditional Joker seen in the majority of comics at the time and for long afterwrds He could be funny and jokey then become angry and cold blooded all the while laughing at the big joke it all was. he had imo more dimensions to him then Ledger who,yes, created a unique take but not one that suits my view of the character the lip smacking hunched thing seems more like a random psycho in a movie then the joker and did he really get angry once in the movie? or did he ever switch from happy to angry? there where no dimensions to him no highs or lows, it was simply standard lip smack, fidget, roll eyes and quote line it was great and unique but it wasnt, for me, the joker

The best bits of Nicholsons joker for me where when he electrocutes Rotelli and has a coversation with him afterwards the shocked look as he pretends Rotelli suggests they should wack grissoms men is priceless stuff.

Another great part is at the museum where vicki says "you must be joking" jokers smile drops as he controls his anger at and says "Do i look like im joking?"

Thats classic joker stuff swicthing from anger, to musing, to manical laughter in the first scene
and barely controlled anger in the second.

Ledger was really great but despite his unique turn he didnt have this multi dimension to him He was a better written joker in the context of the movie but not the better joker overall in comparison to Jack Nicholson.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Cheap shot or not, it's hard to ignore that this was his last real role. Even if it's just a subconscious thing. People don't like to speak ill of the dead. It's a simple truth. Deal with it.

So where is the cut off point? Can you talk about the bad movies an actor made before the one they appeared in just prior to their death? Because it seems odd if one could continue to criticise their earlier bad films but have to applaud a final bad film.

Of course the point is moot because The Dark Knight wasn't a bad film, and Ledger gave a tremendous performance.

Anyway I don't think what you are getting at is correct - just because somebody has died doesn't mean that their last movie becomes a shrine to their memory automatically, especially if the role was bad. People in those cases generally look back at good roles. While I like Transformers the movie, I don't really know anybody who speaks about it in hushed, reverential tones because it was pretty much Orson Welles last voice over gig (or for that matter the moonlighting episode because that was his last filmed acting gig). I'm pretty sure they look back at at the golden Orson Welles years.

But would you say it is possible that maybe Ledger's role is getting such praise because in many peoples eyes it really is that good, and not just because people are just trying to be respectful?

[ThreeDays]

or did he ever switch from happy to angry? there where no dimensions to him no highs or lows

There were a couple of times. His mood shifted from playful to angry and back during the scene where he was recording the guy dressed as Batman before he killed him.

There was also the scene at Bruce's penthouse where he was rather calm, then started to become angry when he said that one guy reminded him of his father, but then he was distracted by Rachel. This one wasn't as blatant as the other one I mentioned, though.

[Inverted]

While I respect many of your opinions I think that some of you have to watch the movie again. For me it was Ledger who portrayed the REAL joker although in a more realistic setting. The whole thing with Nolan's Batman I believe is that he was trying to portray a Gotham City, a Batman, and a Joker that could really exist. While Batman(1989) was great, with all the Batman movies , I could never stop thinking that I was watching an adaptation of a comic book.

While the current movie is just that it presented it in terms of "what would happen if someone were really this psychotic, or if there really was a hero?" This is why I prefer Nolan's interpretation of Batman. Now about the Joker - if you lived in a place like say NYC (my hometown) or any other major metropolitan area who do you think would be taken more seriously, and who would be seen as a real psycho? In all counts I think Ledger would.

Also many of you have been saying that Ledger's Joker wasn't really having fun. I think many of you should probably look up "black humor" like Kurt Vangout. I can give you many instances where the Joker was being funny in a sick way:

1) Pencil trick.
2) Crashing the Wayne fundraiser (the audience was laughing when he was trying to comb his hair).
3) Laughing even though he was falling from a building (now that was a WTF moment).
4) Blowing up hospitals dressed like a nurse (the audience was also laughing during the walking out scene).
5)Sticking his head out of the cop car window with that smile.
6) When Batman was beating the crap out of him in the interrogation room, and laughing the whole way.
7) When Batman sealed the interrogation room.
8) All the times he laugher randomly.
9) The terrorist home video scenes.

Overall I was really impressed, and alot of people even came out shocked. I remember even thinking "Why hasn't Gotham involved the FBI?" I think a scene with the FBI bursting through the door, and telling Gordon that they were in charge now would have REALLY made the Joker look scary. In fact its almost amazing how this Joker was portrayed. He actually brought an entire city to the brink of insanity ex. When the Joker called for the head of the lawyer guy. You had civilian, and a cop try to kill him! All in all the man was a terrorist, manupulative, psychotic, scary, and in a dark way funny.

[dancj]

No contest for me. I always disliked Jack Nicolson's performance and now Heath Ledger has done an excellent job.

[Holku]

While I respect many of your opinions I think that some of you have to watch the movie again. For me it was Ledger who portrayed the REAL joker although in a more realistic setting. The whole thing with Nolan's Batman I believe is that he was trying to portray a Gotham City, a Batman, and a Joker that could really exist. While Batman(1989) was great, with all the Batman movies , I could never stop thinking that I was watching an adaptation of a comic book.

While the current movie is just that it presented it in terms of "what would happen if someone were really this psychotic, or if there really was a hero?" This is why I prefer Nolan's interpretation of Batman. Now about the Joker - if you lived in a place like say NYC (my hometown) or any other major metropolitan area who do you think would be taken more seriously, and who would be seen as a real psycho? In all counts I think Ledger would.

Also many of you have been saying that Ledger's Joker wasn't really having fun. I think many of you should probably look up "black humor" like Kurt Vangout. I can give you many instances where the Joker was being funny in a sick way:

1) Pencil trick.
2) Crashing the Wayne fundraiser (the audience was laughing when he was trying to comb his hair).
3) Laughing even though he was falling from a building (now that was a WTF moment).
4) Blowing up hospitals dressed like a nurse (the audience was also laughing during the walking out scene).
5)Sticking his head out of the cop car window with that smile.
6) When Batman was beating the crap out of him in the interrogation room, and laughing the whole way.
7) When Batman sealed the interrogation room.
8) All the times he laugher randomly.
9) The terrorist home video scenes.

Overall I was really impressed, and alot of people even came out shocked. I remember even thinking "Why hasn't Gotham involved the FBI?" I think a scene with the FBI bursting through the door, and telling Gordon that they were in charge now would have REALLY made the Joker look scary. In fact its almost amazing how this Joker was portrayed. He actually brought an entire city to the brink of insanity ex. When the Joker called for the head of the lawyer guy. You had civilian, and a cop try to kill him! All in all the man was a terrorist, manipulative, psychotic, scary, and in a dark way funny.

Totally agree with everything you say.

For me Ledger just personified the true essence of the Joker, a man who whilst being an absolute mad man, was simultaneously a master manipulator and criminal genius.

I laughed out loud a few times in TDK and the vast majority were due to Ledgers Joker. Even when he did something mad like put a bounty on the Wayne enterprises guy I laughed out of sheer disbelief of the games the Joker plays with Gotham.

Don't get me wrong I liked Nicholson's Joker, but it can't be compared to Ledgers as the films are so massively different. One being a comic book made to a film, and the other being a real life portrayal of what Batman and the Joker would actually be like, I prefer the latter. It would have been totally out of place for Ledgers Joker to be cracking jokes, you cant have a Joker as OTT and funny as Nicholson's and a Joker as dark and deranged as Ledgers in the same film, and Ledgers worked perfectly for me, it was exactly the way I imagined a real Joker to be and I think that was Nolan's aim.

And on a side note I echo the point that its a shame Ledgers performance overshadows Eckhart's, which was superb, though I think Ledger edges it.

[Dr Cthulwho]

There were a couple of times. His mood shifted from playful to angry and back during the scene where he was recording the guy dressed as Batman before he killed him.

There was also the scene at Bruce's penthouse where he was rather calm, then started to become angry when he said that one guy reminded him of his father, but then he was distracted by Rachel. This one wasn't as blatant as the other one I mentioned, though.

There were some other subtle mood shifts - his reaction to Gamble calling him crazy, his disappointment when Batman swerved, and his seemed disappointed and a little annoyed when one of the boats didn't blow up.

1) Pencil trick.
2) Crashing the Wayne fundraiser (the audience was laughing when he was trying to comb his hair).
3) Laughing even though he was falling from a building (now that was a WTF moment).
4) Blowing up hospitals dressed like a nurse (the audience was also laughing during the walking out scene).
5)Sticking his head out of the cop car window with that smile.
6) When Batman was beating the crap out of him in the interrogation room, and laughing the whole way.
7) When Batman sealed the interrogation room.
8) All the times he laugher randomly.
9) The terrorist home video scenes.

I agree entirely with you post. I thought there were plenty of example of the Joker having fun as he went about his chaotic ways. I mean in addition there is:

The burning fire engine, the graffiti on the side of the truck, the "I believe in Dent" campaign badge on his nurses outfit, slip sliding down his pyramid of money...

[Jim Thompson]

I certainly enjoyed Heath Ledger's Joker more than Mr. Nicholson's. Both did a good job with the character, but I just enjoyed Ledger's interpretation more.

[Damiean Dark]

1) Pencil trick.
2) Crashing the Wayne fundraiser (the audience was laughing when he was trying to comb his hair).
3) Laughing even though he was falling from a building (now that was a WTF moment).
4) Blowing up hospitals dressed like a nurse (the audience was also laughing during the walking out scene).
5)Sticking his head out of the cop car window with that smile.
6) When Batman was beating the crap out of him in the interrogation room, and laughing the whole way.
7) When Batman sealed the interrogation room.
8) All the times he laugher randomly.
9) The terrorist home video scenes.

All good stuff but

Electrocuting a mob boss and talking to him
Poisening the two tv persenters
Anouncing he has poisened all beauty products in the city with his joker commercial
poisening two beauty queens and using them in his joker commercial
Kidnapping some guy to use for his "before and after" part of his joker commercial "hes been using brand x!"
killing grissom
scarring alicia mentaly and physically then mock mourning her death
after kidnappping vicki more then willing to let her die in the cathedral
killing bob his most loyal follower and saying "i need a minute or two alone boys"
using his knowledge of chemicals to create smelex
trying to kill the entire city for no apparent reason

There are more little parts in B89 but i cant think of them right now but its obvious for me with his better faacial style of acting and dimensions of highs and lows Jack was the more "Joker" joker then Ledgers "agent of chaos" stuff. Again ledger was REALLY good but Jack was just better for me.

[Libaax]

I didnt like the look of The Joker of Ledger really except when he was in jail and clapping. Thats the best Joker look i have seen in a movie.

Early in the movie the make up was horrible,the hair lame. Its weird but it felt like he looked The Joker more and more in the film. In the hospital visiting Dent with all that real white face make up and the rep lips was good.


I think Ledger nailed the sick,chaos part of Joker 100% perfect as its possible in a movie.

He wasnt real goofy and funny often but he was pretty fun at times too. I thinks its more of Nolan wanting only the sick killer part of Joker and not Heaths fault.


Jacks Joker is a disgrace to me. He was just over the top, he didnt nail anything of the Joker. The look of him was totaly wrong too.

Heath atleast had the voice,the laugh,playing the weak freak and suddenly going powerful psycho.


Ledger i think is overrated as The Joker but i can see why because he was great. Still he was like 60-70% of The Joker to me.
Had he been let go at being funny,goofy in more scenes he would have the ideal Joker the one you thats perfect in your mind.

[Preus]

Ledger's Joker has the best look to date in my opinion. I liked the make-up and how he constantly reapplied it. It looked the best when he was in the room with the mobsters, though.

[Inverted]

All good stuff but

Electrocuting a mob boss and talking to him
Poisening the two tv persenters
Anouncing he has poisened all beauty products in the city with his joker commercial
poisening two beauty queens and using them in his joker commercial
Kidnapping some guy to use for his "before and after" part of his joker commercial "hes been using brand x!"
killing grissom
scarring alicia mentaly and physically then mock mourning her death
after kidnappping vicki more then willing to let her die in the cathedral
killing bob his most loyal follower and saying "i need a minute or two alone boys"
using his knowledge of chemicals to create smelex
trying to kill the entire city for no apparent reason

There are more little parts in B89 but i cant think of them right now but its obvious for me with his better faacial style of acting and dimensions of highs and lows Jack was the more "Joker" joker then Ledgers "agent of chaos" stuff. Again ledger was REALLY good but Jack was just better for me.


My post was in response to the people who said that the Joker wasn't having fun in the movie, and that he didn't have the black humor of the comic joker. My post prove otherwise, and was not meant as a comparison on Batman(1989) so you probably didn't understand my post.

Also now that you listed Joker(1989) funny parts it just proved my point. The previous Joker was dark but very unrealistic whereas Nolan presented his interpretation in a more realistic light.

[Preus]

And the realistic version turned out to be much better. I rather liked the idea of him reapplying the make-up throughout the movie.

[Ult. Fireboy]

Heath Ledger's Joker by far. I enjoyed Jack's, but Heath Ledger was the real comic book Joker.

[Preus]

Agreed completely.

[Damiean Dark]

Heath Ledger's Joker by far. I enjoyed Jack's, but Heath Ledger was the real comic book Joker.

Nah Hammils Joker is the comic book joker but of course it being a toon the violence is completely toned down but the mannerisms and crazyness seems the closest followed by nicholson mainly because of what he did (listed in my earlier post) and his amazing facial emote performance. Ledegr was a unique and new take it may not be MY vision of the clown prince of crime but imo its a completely valid take to be put alongside JN and MH.

[InfiniteCombo]

Nah Hammils Joker is the comic book joker but of course it being a toon the violence is completely toned down but the mannerisms and crazyness seems the closest followed by nicholson mainly because of what he did (listed in my earlier post) and his amazing facial emote performance. Ledegr was a unique and new take it may not be MY vision of the clown prince of crime but imo its a completely valid take to be put alongside JN and MH.

Yeah Hammil really went all out capturing the mannerisms when a bunch of artists drew them out for him... His performance was strictly vocal, you can't even compare it to the great work that Ledger did.

[Immortal]

I don't think many realize that the Joker is hilarious... to himself. If you don't find blowing up school buses, poisoning water supplies, or torturing girls in front of their father's funny, then you're not going to the think the Joker is funny. In my opinion that's what made him so sinister, is that he honestly thinks it would be funny to beat someone to death with a crowbar than blow them up.

[Libaax]

I don't think many realize that the Joker is hilarious... to himself. If you don't find blowing up school buses, poisoning water supplies, or torturing girls in front of their father's funny, then you're not going to the think the Joker is funny. In my opinion that's what made him so sinister, is that he honestly thinks it would be funny to beat someone to death with a crowbar than blow them up.

That theory is very weak.

The Joker i have been reading in the comics was that sick and funny in that he tried to be funny in own twisted way.

[meche]

i cannot believe that i am gonna say this since i always loved nicholson as joker, but im gonna have to go with ledger... :evilsmile:

[GRKiller]

Both were great, but Heath Ledger gets my vote for originality. Heath Ledger was incredibly funny as well.

[Immortal]

was that sick and funny in that he tried to be funny in [his] own twisted way.

That's basically all I'm trying to say.

[Damiean Dark]

Yeah Hammil really went all out capturing the mannerisms when a bunch of artists drew them out for him... His performance was strictly vocal, you can't even compare it to the great work that Ledger did.

True so the same goes for Conroy then he was great but i always prefered Keaton i always said him (conroy) standing in a booth isnt the same as Keaton keeping the voice, the icy stare and mannerisms throughout the movies he appeared in.

[Damiean Dark]

Nicholson was more outrageous as well in personality and his acts you cant beat him trying to kill the entire city it was pure joker in that it would give him no real benefit it was just funny.

[howaboutamagictrick]

I just read the killing joke, and while he may be more elaborate than ledger's joker, i ultimately felt ledger was true-er to the character. Jack was just.... jack. Heath ledger dissapears, and his motivations are the same: he wants to prove that anyone can be just like him in an instant. Maybe his sense of humor was a bit different, but did anyone think that the comic's code just flat out ****ed kane's vision for the joker?

[Damiean Dark]

I just read the killing joke, and while he may be more elaborate than ledger's joker, i ultimately felt ledger was true-er to the character. Jack was just.... jack. Heath ledger dissapears, and his motivations are the same: he wants to prove that anyone can be just like him in an instant. Maybe his sense of humor was a bit different, but did anyone think that the comic's code just flat out fucked kane's vision for the joker?

I hate when people say jack was jack he isnt a crazed psycho in real life ledgers success is founded on that he created mannerisms and a style that was unique not the acts he commited thats all good but even if your basing who was the better joker on that i think Jack was the more faithful characterisation watch the movie B89 again watch the subtle facial emotes from Jack anger,laughter,and just plain crazy ledger really was imo very one note or maybe he just didnt pronounce his emotions enough. it was creepy.. and thats it it may surprise some people here but not for one minute did i think he was crazy (i mean in the completely off his head sense) he was far too organised no matter what he said. Jacks joker isnt just creepy he is crazy,happy,angry,musing, and unbalanced where he does stuff for no apparent reason he can revert to a genious scheme (poisening beauy products) but he will balance it by not even asking for a ransom or any deal, he wouldnt just announce a crime on radio he would go the whole hog by kidnapping two beaty queens and using them in his commercial, he would organise a parade and give gotham 20 mill then attempt to kill them in the same instant.

[Pól Rua]

If Jack was just playing himself as the Joker does this mean that Nicholson's a homocidal maniac who was genius enough to make his own neurotoxin and poison the city with it?

No, it means that Jack Nicholson was relying on the same eye-rolling faux-craziness, smirking, self-indulgent smugness, low 'scary' voice and occasional bombastic smarminess that he uses in every film he's made since realizing that Hollywood will pay him more to do schtick than they will to act.

Cesar Romero or Mark Hammill for the win.

[Libaax]

That's basically all I'm trying to say.

And what im saying is THE Joker IS funny despite his own style.

In the movie it was the sicko Joker 99% of the time. In the comics he was funny without having to kill people to be funny.

He wasnt funny cause he thought he was but he actually cracked jokes,was goofy funny.

[mgs]

cesear and jack, as acting on screen. Haven't seen Heath's version yet.

[drmcnutt]

I find it hard to compare the two. I loved Jack at the time, but it doesn't hold up these days. I hated the whole Smilex commercial and the newscasters disheveled look because no one was using cosmetics, too hokey.

His Joker had a lot of the trappings from the comics. Funny, there are people here wondering how Ledger's Joker could wire a hospital/ferry to explode, wouldn't they would go crazy over Joker's out of nowhere electrocuting joybuzzers, boxing gloves into the TV's, huge balloons filled with gas that falls and doesn't rise, it's fantasy really.

That fantasy undercuts the true menace of the Joker and that's what I got from Ledger's portrayal. That scene with Gamble was uncomfortable to watch even on repeat viewings. There's an intensity that Nicholson was almost neutered from taking on in his portrayal. Nicholson was good with what he got, Ledger was great IMO.

[Monty_Cristo]

No, it means that Jack Nicholson was relying on the same eye-rolling faux-craziness, smirking, self-indulgent smugness, low 'scary' voice and occasional bombastic smarminess that he uses in every film he's made since realizing that Hollywood will pay him more to do schtick than they will to act.

yeah, anyone who doesn't believe that should watch The Departed to see what Nicolson's Joker would be like if he were older, fatter, and didn't trim his nose hairs.

[Monty_Cristo]

I hate when people say jack was jack he isnt a crazed psycho in real life ledgers success is founded on that he created mannerisms and a style that was unique not the acts he commited thats all good but even if your basing who was the better joker on that i think Jack was the more faithful characterisation watch the movie B89 again watch the subtle facial emotes from Jack anger,laughter,and just plain crazy ledger really was imo very one note or maybe he just didnt pronounce his emotions enough. it was creepy.. and thats it it may surprise some people here but not for one minute did i think he was crazy (i mean in the completely off his head sense) he was far too organised no matter what he said. Jacks joker isnt just creepy he is crazy,happy,angry,musing, and unbalanced where he does stuff for no apparent reason he can revert to a genious scheme (poisening beauy products) but he will balance it by not even asking for a ransom or any deal, he wouldnt just announce a crime on radio he would go the whole hog by kidnapping two beaty queens and using them in his commercial, he would organise a parade and give gotham 20 mill then attempt to kill them in the same instant.

burning the money wasn't crazy enough for you? him beating on the goon who was shocked while attempting to remove Batman's cowl wasn't unhinged enough? him chuckling as Batman beat him didn't come off as a little nutty?

[amazingfanboy]

While Jack's version of The Joker was good, it's only because that is the role he's played since One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. He's been typecast as the mentally unstable character. Heath's performance though was much more like a Frank Miller Joker (maybe even a little darker). He was exactly what he should be - Batman's complete opposite. Where Batman is calm and controlled, The Joker is Chaotic and spontaneous. Batman refuses to kill, The Joker kills everybody. In Frank Millar's The Dark Knight Returns, Batman had gone into a ten year retirement and The Joker had fallen into a catatonic state. When he learned that Bats was back on the street, he too started planning his next killing spree. I was reminded of this when The Joker states in TDK, "I don't wanna kill you. What would I do without you!?" I am thankful that Heath and Nolan took this darker approach to the character. In this not so cartoonie version of Gotham, a comedian styled villain wouldn't have fit in.Wanna see my picks for a hypothetical Batman 3? Visit my blog. (http://amazingfanboy.blogspot.com/2008/07/amazing-fanboys-choices-for-batman-3.html)

[Trey]

Cesar Romero

That is the correct answer.

[DeadXMan]

this poll is in void

There is no Cesar Romero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjiIHfKwi0Q

[Trey]

I find it hard to compare the two. I loved Jack at the time, but it doesn't hold up these days. I hated the whole Smilex commercial and the newscasters disheveled look because no one was using cosmetics, too hokey.

His Joker had a lot of the trappings from the comics. Funny, there are people here wondering how Ledger's Joker could wire a hospital/ferry to explode, wouldn't they would go crazy over Joker's out of nowhere electrocuting joybuzzers, boxing gloves into the TV's, huge balloons filled with gas that falls and doesn't rise, it's fantasy really.

That fantasy undercuts the true menace of the Joker and that's what I got from Ledger's portrayal. That scene with Gamble was uncomfortable to watch even on repeat viewings. There's an intensity that Nicholson was almost neutered from taking on in his portrayal. Nicholson was good with what he got, Ledger was great IMO.

Fantasy enhances the menace. Its this dichotomy that makes Joker a special villain. In Jack's Joker you can see the whimsy in the script and the portrayal, where it enhances the menace when Juxtaposed with the scenes where he is on the verge of snapping and killing a mofo.

Ledger's Joker is nowhere near the portrayal of the real Joker. His motivation isn't chaos, but money! He's helping the gangsters for money.

[amazingfanboy]

Fantasy enhances the menace. Its this dichotomy that makes Joker a special villain. In Jack's Joker you can see the whimsy in the script and the portrayal, where it enhances the menace when Juxtaposed with the scenes where he is on the verge of snapping and killing a mofo.

Ledger's Joker is nowhere near the portrayal of the real Joker. His motivation isn't chaos, but money! He's helping the gangsters for money.

Actually, he burnt his half of the money. His motivation is Batman and being his complete opposite.

[Trey]

Actually, he burnt his half of the money. His motivation is Batman and being his complete opposite.

I sit corrected.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Ledger's Joker is nowhere near the portrayal of the real Joker. His motivation isn't chaos, but money! He's helping the gangsters for money.

No he wasn't. He couldn't care less about the money, since he burns a pyramid of it (half the mobs money, the price he set for helping them). That was the point of the scene with the Chechen, who he derided for caring only about money (before apparently having him fed to his own dogs).

His true motivations, well, he enjoys chaos and anarchy, playing games that involve breaking guys like Batman and Harvey (and showing their ordered world as a bad joke), and long walks on the beach (one that's on fire, I would asume).

[gorthon616]

I can't even begin to say how great both Joker's were. Jack Nicholson's Joker really had a taste for the theatrics, and he was borderline nuts. Not to mention I found the look very creepy and Jack Nicholson's Joker is the main reason we got the animated Joker of the 1990's. Even as I watch Batman {1989) now, I'm still enjoying every second of Jack's performance as the Joker. However, I do think Heath Ledger topped him and was better than his Joker by a long shot. Basically, one of the main reasons I liked Heath's Joker more was because he was a hell of a lot more physical. He's someone you don't want to mess with and getting into a fight with him won't pose well because he's a guy that thrives on pain, so the more he receives the more pumped he gets. His methods were also better and his Joker was all around smarter. He turned the city completely upside down and basically took over Gotham's mob. The guy was amazing to watch, and he's currently the best comic movie villain of all time, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

Bingo. Jack's Joker was good, but Heath's Joker was a genius.

Jack just has a good flair for melodramatics, but ultimately the villain was just as cheesy and shallow as the Batman Forever/Batman and Robin villains. The only thing that made Jack's Joker good (as opposed to the aforementioned villains) is that Jack can pull it off brilliantly, whereas the other actors couldn't do it without it feeling completely moronic.

[Floyd The Barber]

I think what it really comes down to isn't so much acting chops as scripts and plot that the actors had to work with. Ledger is the better actor probably. His method acting. His immersion in the role. But Jack just had better moments and a better story and script to work with. If Heath had been working with Jack's plot and script he would have possibly been the ultimate joker. But instead he got a very clinical painfully realistic boring script that reduced him to a psycho criminal in a purple suit and make-up with none of the flair, style, or kookyness that the script/plot that Jack got gave him.
Plus Jack had a better foil. I can understand why people would be debating Heath and Jack because both were great in their own ways... But anyone who thinks Bale's Batman is better than Keaton's must be high on crack.

[mgs]

I think what it really comes down to isn't so much acting chops as scripts and plot that the actors had to work with. Ledger is the better actor probably. His method acting. His immersion in the role.

hold on now, one-role comparison is one thing, but did you just say that heath was a better actor than jack?!? O.o

[Jim Thompson]

hold on now, one-role comparison is one thing, but did you just say that heath was a better actor than jack?!? O.oHonestly, I think Ledger the better actor. Jack plays crazy people great -- and not much else. Heath was far more versatile, I think.

[mgs]

Honestly, I think Ledger the better actor. Jack plays crazy people great -- and not much else. Heath was far more versatile, I think.

in time maybe, but I don't think his short career can be compared to the long & varied career of Jack Nicholson.

[Jim Thompson]

in time maybe, but I don't think his short career can be compared to the long & varied career of Jack Nicholson.Long, perhaps. I don't think Jack's career has been all that varied.

[Floyd The Barber]

hold on now, one-role comparison is one thing, but did you just say that heath was a better actor than jack?!? O.o

Oh I don't know really. That's a really loaded "probably" in my statement. Jack's a damn fine actor, don't get me wrong. And I've enjoyed his movies for years and years. Easy Rider, The Shining, The Departed, It's undeniable he's one of the greats. Ledger showed soooo much potential though. It is a shame that his career was cut so short. Jack was definitely the better written Joker though.

[gorthon616]

Honestly, I think Ledger the better actor. Jack plays crazy people great -- and not much else. Heath was far more versatile, I think.

Are you speaking solely in terms of this movie? In terms of this movie, yes Heath was a better actor. But Heath hadn't really done much else in his acting career.

[The Xenos]

Well, I think Romero and Hamill's animated Joker deserve some recognition. In their own right they mastered the role and version they were given.

I much prefer Leder as he fits the Joker I know from the books better. Nicholson gets major points deducted for the studio tinkering that make the Joker conform to his stardom. Hell, they even gave the character a name after the actor playing him. Plus you have Burton's imprint, not to mention Prince, Jon Peters or others involved. Not that it's fully Nicholson's fault, but I think it affects it. It made the character a bit more of a cartoon than even the cartoon Joker Hamil played. Meanwhile, Ledger was much more real. Of course the whole movie was.

Actually, I'm gonna pop in the DVD now to check out Nicholson and give him a second chance. I still don't think he made himself into the role as much. Nicholson may have fallen back into his laurels and it's just not one of his best roles. It was more Jack being a star than him being an actor.

Actually, there's also Michael McKean who played the Dick Sprang Joker in the Legends of the Dark Kight episode. Oddly, Ledger's role reminded me a bit of that voice.

[Damiean Dark]

Well, I think Romero and Hamill's animated Joker deserve some recognition. In their own right they mastered the role and version they were given.

I much prefer Leder as he fits the Joker I know from the books better. Nicholson gets major points deducted for the studio tinkering that make the Joker conform to his stardom. Hell, they even gave the character a name after the actor playing him. Plus you have Burton's imprint, not to mention Prince, Jon Peters or others involved. Not that it's fully Nicholson's fault, but I think it affects it. It made the character a bit more of a cartoon than even the cartoon Joker Hamil played. Meanwhile, Ledger was much more real. Of course the whole movie was.

Actually, I'm gonna pop in the DVD now to check out Nicholson and give him a second chance. I still don't think he made himself into the role as much. Nicholson may have fallen back into his laurels and it's just not one of his best roles. It was more Jack being a star than him being an actor.

Actually, there's also Michael McKean who played the Dick Sprang Joker in the Legends of the Dark Kight episode. Oddly, Ledger's role reminded me a bit of that voice.

Watch it again carefully and notice Jacks facial emote performance imo its the best he has done the anger to laughter, sly looks, mock shock ect is classic.
I think Nicholsons joker kept leaping from cartoon to psycho throughout the movie thats why i loved him better he had the highs and lows the joker should have some people prefer Ledgers more "real" performance and thats fine but although it was a great unique take it was very one note in actions and range comppared to B89. B89 was also a more comic book film add that its 19 year old film and its jokers violence seemed slightly unthreatening to some people.

Romero was pretty good but was pretty one dimensional especially compared to frank gorshins amazing turn as Riddler and although Hamill is the king of the joker voices i cant compare him to ledger,romero or nicholson who actually had to act rather then just talk.

[Captain Jim]

this poll is in void

There is no Cesar Romero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjiIHfKwi0Q

Fixed that for you. :smile:

[Layzie Kidd]

I don know but Ledgers joker even put the comics joker to shame. His might be even better because its so much more believable. The comic's Joker smiles far too much. It would be better if he didnt smile as often and shows how really dark he is like Ledgers did. Those "serious" moments.

[Alan2099]

I don know but Ledgers joker even put the comics joker to shame. His might be even better because its so much more believable. The comic's Joker smiles far too much. It would be better if he didnt smile as often and shows how really dark he is like Ledgers did. Those "serious" moments.
Wait ... Joker ... smiles to much? And you want him to be darker and more serious?

Please tell me you're joking. Please.

[Jim Thompson]

I don know but Ledgers joker even put the comics joker to shame. His might be even better because its so much more believable. The comic's Joker smiles far too much. It would be better if he didnt smile as often and shows how really dark he is like Ledgers did. Those "serious" moments.Why so serious? :biggrin:

[Will.S]

I voted for Ledger, but that doesn't mean I didn't like Nicholson. I think they both did a great job.
Same here.

[Layzie Kidd]

Wait ... Joker ... smiles to much? And you want him to be darker and more serious?

Please tell me you're joking. Please.

No I mean like, he should make more different expressions. It makes it more realistic. But he should still smile alot.

Its hard to explain. : (

[Jim Thompson]

No I mean like, he should make more different expressions. It makes it more realistic. But he should still smile alot.

Its hard to explain. : (I get what you're saying -- the Joker should be able to convey a larger emotional range than just a generic smile.

[Layzie Kidd]

I get what you're saying -- the Joker should be able to convey a larger emotional range than just a generic smile.

Yeah. Thats what I mean.

Thats the thing I liked about Ledger's joker. His expressions, the way he moves, his tone of voice, body language, everything he does is great. The party scene was good example of that. All the random shit he was doing like touching people, eating, and what not made it so much believable that their was something wrong with the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g3P63pv2C0&feature=related

[Alan2099]

Yeah. Thats what I mean.

Thats the thing I liked about Ledger's joker. His expressions, the way he moves, his tone of voice, body language, everything he does is great. The party scene was good example of that. All the random shit he was doing like touching people, eating, and what not made it so much believable that their was something wrong with the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g3P63pv2C0&feature=related

See, that stuff took away from his Joker-ness if you ask me. Jack, though varations in his tone of voice, as well as the way he moved his eyebrows and eyes was able to act his way though a larger variety of expressions with is no mean feat when you factor in the huge smile frozen on his face.

[Dr. Banner]

Seriously, how is this even up for debate?

Jack Nicholson basically put on some white make-up and acted like he was drunk. Cesar Romero didn't even bother to shave off his mustache before they slapped some sloppy white paint on his face and some half-ass green hair colouring on his head and called him the Joker.

Heath Ledger all the way. He disappeared into the role and showed us, if not what the Joker is, what the Joker should be: creepy, psychotic, brilliant, and scary as all hell. YOu can't fault genius like Ledger and Nolan for not staying within the bounds of some mostly shit comic books when bringing something that powerful to the screen.

A brilliant vision of the Joker to terrorize a brilliant vision of Batman.

[Alan2099]

YOu can't fault genius like Ledger and Nolan for not staying within the bounds of some mostly shit comic books when bringing something that powerful to the screen.
No. I can't fault them for that. it's much more obvious that they embraced the worst s**t aspects of Joker as he's been written in recent years and decided to top those.

I find it humerous that in your list of things Joker should be, you didn't include anything resembling funny or humerous.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who actually think a guy called JOKEr should have something resembling humor in his apperances. Am I wrong? Did the Joker somehow get replaced by The Sadistic Killer and nobody bothered to tell me? What's people's obsession these days with making Joker the most twisted sadistic and brutal killer they can think of instead of having him actually have something even remotely to do with jokes?

And don't give me that stupid "Like itself is a meaningless joke," line that people keep trying to use to pass off the fact that they really have no clue what they're doing with the character and just want a generic psycho that kills, mains, or tortures people.

[Sean Whitmore]

I knew this was a bad idea for a thread since day one.

Only comic book fans could not be satisfied with the fantastic and different portrayals there have been of the Joker over the years, from Romero to Nicholson to Hamill to Ledger. That's not enough, we need to decide which one is the best.

Take it to Rumbles.


SEAN