Why I am not in jail today

[Matt Doc Martin]

This has been a very trying week.

I almost killed a man. I know that sounds dramatic, but let me explain.

A good friend of mine let me know last Wednesday that his child had been molested by a step-grandfather. This child is the sweetest child ever. I love her like she is mine, though I never want kids. He was being investigated for it and had admitted it to my friend, his own wife, etc.

When I heard this, I was stunned/angry/sad/enraged. I know the man who allegedly did this. When I left the house, I went looking for him. I knew I would kill him when I found him.

I managed to find him right away. He was in a driveway smoking and saw me pull in. Please know that he has only ever seen me laughing, joking around, etc. When he saw me get out of the car, he went pale.

“What’s going on?” he asked.

“I heard you touched _____”., I replied. (I want to say my voice was quiet, and level.)

“Yes, I did” , he answered, and he starts backing away from me.

“When are you turning yourself in?”, I asked, in what I am sure was a calm, reasonable manner.

“They will come get me.”

“That’s not good enough”, I am sure I snarled. “How long are you going to make ____ and ____ suffer for your actions?”

“I’m suffering too”, he said in a quiet voice. (Again, why I did not reach out to throttle the life from this fuckwit I will never know. He had the stones to tell ME TO MY FACE that HE WAS SUFFERING after WHAT HE DID? In my head I was saying “Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?”)

“When. Are. You. Turning. Yourself. In.” I asked


“I will check myself into a hotel and call the police to come get me from there”, he said, still backing away. (It was a long driveway) “I…I…forgot something inside…I gotta go” as he locked the screen door separating us.

“Jail is the safest place for you.” I said.

I have never seen someone so scared of me before. I was dressed business professional as I was fresh out of work, and again, he has only seen “goofy Matt” before. My friend later told me that when I had left to go find him, I looked very different. It was cheap satisfaction at best, but my friends were glad to hear it.

Later on that week, he was hanging around a Circle K looking for his wife who had thrown him out the day I went looking for him. My friend’s wife called me because she was nervous about it, worried that he might show up to cause trouble. But she begged me not to go there, as she knew what I was likely to do. She let me know they all loved me too much to see me go to jail over this jackass. “Let the law handle it”


Last night, I found out the bastard killed himself. He gassed himself in the shed at his wife’s house, so she would be the first to find him. She did, and ran screaming. My friend then ran in, checked his pulse, but he was already in rigor mortis.

He called me to let me know last night.

I am torn now. I knew this guy for over 15 years. Never liked him all that much, but respected him for who he was and again, goofed around a lot. But when he did what he did, he was dead to me. You don’t ever fuck with me and mine.

I will never know what would have happened if I saw him again and he was still not behind bars. I was planning on contacting every felon in prison I could to let them know what he had done in the hopes someone would hurt him badly.

My friends now have to deal with his cowardice and his death. Granted, he will never touch a kid again, but he caused suffering that keeps on giving.

I have been trying to distract myself with the usual Olney crap, and with a more positive attempt to help a friend with a book, which some Yabsers here are looking at helping with. But I know I have been “off” and extremely….cranky. (Like anyone here would be able to tell)

You do NOT touch kids. Ever.

I don’t believe in hell, but if there is one, I hope the cocksucker burns. I wish he could have suffered in prison, but I know he will never be around any kids. That is something.

I don’t know why I did not attack him that day. I know it is better I did not, as I would have done more harm to my own life, and through me to my friends.

One less asshole and pervert.

I don’t know what else to say.

[Jared H.]

Holy $#!?, Doc.

It is good that you kept yourself in check. I'm not sure I could.

I wish he had come to justice instead of taking the coward's way out.

[BnL]

It sounds like everything turned out as well as it possibly could have in this disgusting situation. He's dead, and can't hurt anyone else. You and others close to the little girl won't have to worry about what kind of thing you'd do if he was ever released from prison. And the girl will not have to relive the details of what exactly was done to her to investigators/lawyers/etc. Now you can all just focus on making sure she is getting the best care and love she can get.

[Mr.EZ]

You did good by them, and by yourself. You controlled yourself when lesser men would've snapped and did something worse.

I do believe in hell, and from my perspective, he's burning right now.

[the4thpip]

It's amazing what restraint good people can show.

My best friend always used to tell me "if anybody ever hurt my son..."

Now her son is dead and she says she wouldn't kill the guy who killed him. Says she hopes he has to go to jail for a long time and live with what he did.

Hugs to Matt.

[Matt Algren]

Last night, I found out the bastard killed himself.
Good.

Not only because he won't do it again, but because the little girl won't have to testify in court. She and her parents can work with a good doctor who can help them move past this. There is no one to watch for, no parole hearings to attend, no letters arriving from prison.

He put a period on the abuse. It's over, but for the healing. It'll take work, and hopefully the damage isn't too extensive, but they can start the process without keeping trap of the monster who did this.

She can be free.

[Alan Lynch]

You're a good man, Matt. It took a lot to restrain yourself like you did and I respect the hell out of you for confronting this prick. Good luck to those left behind.

[DaveRothe]

I think the others have more or less said this in one way or another but focus on her. You said she was like a daughter to you. I think you'll both "heal" in the process. No more time for anger.

[KevinTBrown]

Matt, you were a hell of a lot more restrained than I would have been.


Anyway, he's dead. Now it's time to move on and totally focus on this girl. You've proven you'll be there for her. Just do all you can to make sure she's healthy and happy from this poitn forward.

[Bo Bo]

I have nothing to add, it took courage and restraint on your part to confront him and leave it at that. I hope everyone can start healing and especially the little girl.

[Buzz Dixon]

Matt, good for you that you held yourself in check. I can understand the emotions that must be raging through you, but you handled things correctly.

The molester brought all this upon himself, and instead of manning up and confessing and going away to serve his time he chose to exit it as messy a way as possible.

Hang in there, man. You family needs you.

[GCom]

Matt, I'm buying you a drink next I'm in Florida.


With Tolerance For Sympathies...

GCom

[cedardryad]

You did handle yourself very well. I'm the lesser woman because I sure as hell assume I would kill someone who did this to my daughter or any other child I knew.

I'm sure that bastard is paying for what he did. You did good.

[Sabrinaset]

I think you did the right thing ... and controlled yourself better than I would have.

[heystacy]

Damn. Dude you did the right thing.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Thank you all. I needed to get this out, as it had been eating me up.

Last Wednesday when I saw him, I was so angry I passed beyond “feeling”. I almost felt empty/numb. It is hard to describe. I tend to be an emotional/passionate person in most things (Thank you, Irish/Scottish heritage, my Scorpio nature, and/or depression!)

I know that if I had attacked him, I would be in jail and just causing more heartache for my friends, be it my killing him or just beating him.

The wee one should be okay… still mentions it once in a great while, but otherwise, seems “ok”. Not having him around or seen at all will help to forget and lessen need for explanations, I am sure.

I don’t see any “happy” ending, but at least the “healing” (for everyone) can start.

But thank you all again.

[MartinRedmond]

I guess this is the sort of thing you never know how you'll react till it happens.

[spidarwin]

I don't post in the YABS forums very often, and I figure none of you know anything about me. *shrug* You all seem, from what I can tell, like you know a bit about each other, and sometimes you take friends where you can find them.

I applaud your restraint, Doc, and I want you to know that one more person, me, thinks you did the right thing by taking it to the man's face and giving him the piece of your mind.

What I really want to know, though, is...

Is there something we can do for the benefit of the child?
Comics mailed to you, to deliver to her?
Gift certs to places for the family, so they can get stuff to take this off their minds?
Anything?

I know I can't do much, but I've got two little boys, and I'd be devastated if I discovered something like this happening to them. What can we do, if anything, to lessen the impact?

[Matt Doc Martin]

I don't post in the YABS forums very often, and I figure none of you know anything about me. *shrug* You all seem, from what I can tell, like you know a bit about each other, and sometimes you take friends where you can find them.

I applaud your restraint, Doc, and I want you to know that one more person, me, thinks you did the right thing by taking it to the man's face and giving him the piece of your mind.

What I really want to know, though, is...

Is there something we can do for the benefit of the child?
Comics mailed to you, to deliver to her?
Gift certs to places for the family, so they can get stuff to take this off their minds?
Anything?

I know I can't do much, but I've got two little boys, and I'd be devastated if I discovered something like this happening to them. What can we do, if anything, to lessen the impact?


They are pretty well off, so they don't "need" anything. But thank you for the offer!

She is too young to read on her own yet, so no comics or anything. Time will be the best, and now we all have that. If anyone wants to do anything, donate some time to a woman's shelter, or some child-support type of thing. Or write your congressman to ask them to make crimes against children punishable by death.

Anyone have suggestions of good charities for kids?

I know I will be fine as time goes by. I am slowly unclenching, as it were.

[sk716]

I applaud your restraint, Matt.

[section 8]

You did good by them, and by yourself. You controlled yourself when lesser men would've snapped and did something worse.

I do believe in hell, and from my perspective, he's burning right now.

True that.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

I too, would like to commend your restraint during such a trying time for you & yours.

[Red Berens]

Good for you Matt. You made your point without making the situation any worse. You're a good man.

I'm always happy when one of our sex assault suspects kills themselves. The investigation just stops. No court, no long trial, and more importantly, no children/adults having to testify in open court, being made to re-live their ordeal.

His last few days on Earth were miserable and gut-wrenching, and he died scared and alone.

I know - I sound horrible, but thats what 15 years of dealing with people like this does.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Good for you Matt. You made your point without making the situation any worse. You're a good man.

I'm always happy when one of our sex assault suspects kills themselves. The investigation just stops. No court, no long trial, and more importantly, no children/adults having to testify in open court, being made to re-live their ordeal.

His last few days on Earth were miserable and gut-wrenching, and he died scared and alone.

I know - I sound horrible, but thats what 15 years of dealing with people like this does.


You don't sound horrible at all.

I am glad for the same reasons.

[beetlebum]

Good for you Matt. You made your point without making the situation any worse. You're a good man.

I'm always happy when one of our sex assault suspects kills themselves. The investigation just stops. No court, no long trial, and more importantly, no children/adults having to testify in open court, being made to re-live their ordeal.

His last few days on Earth were miserable and gut-wrenching, and he died scared and alone.

I know - I sound horrible, but thats what 15 years of dealing with people like this does.

I can sympathise with the way you feel, Red.

I've often felt this way myself.

As for you Matt; you have my respect and admiration.

You're a good soul.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I.......


....anything I could say about this wouldn't approach the significance of what happened and what you must feel.


I'm glad there are people like you out there, Matt.

[Solaris]

I.......


....anything I could say about this wouldn't approach the significance of what happened and what you must feel.


I'm glad there are people like you out there, Matt.

I was so totally having a hard time replying to this, then Maxie said what I wanted to say, far better than I could say it, so she speaks for me, too.

[Cam63]

You're the man, Matthew.

Damn good job, mate and I know I wouldn't have handled it better than you did with that low piece of shit.

....That said, I don't think I'd need to get a great lawyer to get me outta doing gaol time for killing a ped.

[Lester C.]

I realize a true happy ending is years away, but given the facts the situation everything worked out best for everyone given the horrific turn of events. You're not in jail and will be there for the kid. The kid can move on with out a trial and everything that goes with it. The guys dead so either he's in a state of nothingness or in Hell. Either way he got what was coming to him.

[Cam63]

Good post, Lester.

[DungeonmasterJim]

Good post, Lester.

Agreed!

DM Jim

[Shisho]

They are pretty well off, so they don't "need" anything. But thank you for the offer!

She is too young to read on her own yet, so no comics or anything. Time will be the best, and now we all have that. If anyone wants to do anything, donate some time to a woman's shelter, or some child-support type of thing. Or write your congressman to ask them to make crimes against children punishable by death.

Anyone have suggestions of good charities for kids?

I know I will be fine as time goes by. I am slowly unclenching, as it were.

I don't know about charities for kids specifically, but RAINN (http://www.rainn.org/) (Rape, Abuse, & Incest National Network), is probably a good charity for a case like this. There may be some useful resources there for the family as well.

Also, Equality Now (http://www.equalitynow.com)helps women across the world. That includes children caught up in different life-threatening/sexual situations.

[EdContradictory]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

[Matt Algren]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?
He knew both parties beforehand.

[Matt Doc Martin]

He knew both parties beforehand.

yes. The child and parents VERY well and the molester though them, including at his bedside when he had a heart attack a year ago.

[JamesRitcheyIII]

Good and sensible self-restraint, Matt. I got away with beating a child molester within an inch of his life, once--but only because he didn't know me from Adam. Hypothetically, of course, and it could have happened anywhere, at any time. Or maybe I made it up.

Anonymity is vital.

It would be easy just to call him an evil scumbag (which he was), but you know these people are emotionally immature and mentally ill, due to having their own psycho-sexual wiring fucked with as kids by some earlier molester. They see themselves as victims, and can only derive power from victimizing others. NOT an excuse, I know--I agree with Descartes that life is 49% what happens to you, and 51% what you do about it. The choice to do good can overcome fate, Early Trauma and proclivities of genetics. There's a reason we convict the medically mentally ill if the crime is heinous enough, and why the legal definition of insanity is so much less broad. For them, recidivism is the worst of any other group outside of serial killers--there is and never will be redemption--at least, until Psychiatry becomes less of a quack science.

That being said, I think the best revenge against those caught and serving extended sentences is for it to get around the prison that they're child molesters. The vast majority of convicts hate them enough to kill them--a sensible societal solution, IMHO.

[Crowley]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

yeah I agree... it's a definitely a bit sketchy.

Also while what the man did was absolutely horrendous... having worked with, and known many victims of abuse... typically it runs in cycles. The abusers tend to almost always have also been abused themselves at some point.

[Matt Algren]

Oddly enough, I saw Gone Baby Gone for the first time last night. I have no problem with the decision in the middle of that one either. I'd probably do the same thing.

[Matt Doc Martin]

yeah I agree... it's a definitely a bit sketchy.

Also while what the man did was absolutely horrendous... having worked with, and known many victims of abuse... typically it runs in cycles. The abusers tend to almost always have also been abused themselves at some point.

Sketchy?

Luckily I have two ass cheeks that you can each kiss.

Pucker up, buttercup.

I was the victim of physical abuse growing up. I saw women being hit all the time and I was beaten. I also saw animal cruelty.

Guess what? I manage NOT to hit women/kids. It takes no effort at all. I love animals. Also, no effort.

Someone I know hurt a little child, a child I love. One of the smartest, sweetest children you could hope to know. He also, in doing that, hurt my best friends who helped me in many places in my life, including a guy who saved my life. I would willingly take a bullet for them. There is NOTHING I would not do.

Sorry that is so hard to comprehend.

[Matt Doc Martin]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

Here is how I "inserted myself".

I stopped to see my friends as I do once every week or two. I hang out, have dinner, etc.

The house is all locked up, which is not normal.

I am let in, and I can see something is up. They let me know that something horrible happened, and my friend takes me out to talk with me privately. He lets me know what happened and what he has had to go through since then. (Fun fact: Parents are treated as suspects FIRST)

This child I helped name. This child who called me "Uncle Matt" and always smiles when she sees me. And I know who did it. he even admitted it to them, and, as I pointed out, later to me when I confronted him.


THAT is how I got involved. Anger and grief for the child and my friends. Ain't I a real bastard?

[Corrina]

I think your anger was certainly justified, Matt. If I had a child in the same situation....well....

If I had to guess, I would say that your anger was probably increased by the fact that you were abused as a child and had no control and once you had a chance to help another child, you could not stay back. In other words, while there was justifiable anger for what this child suffered, part of your anger was for yourself and what you suffered. And that's why it seemed so out of control for you because all your misplaced anger at what happened to you went onto this guy for what he'd done and added to it.

Just a guess. I could be wrong. Could be all wet. Glad this asshole is dead and hope the child doesn't somehow feel guilty that his death is her fault. Children do that, sometimes.

[Solaris]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?


When it's needed, as it obviously was here, that's what friends do. And what people of good conscience do even for strangers... like, for instance, if they see a rape occuring, or see an elderly person trip and fall.

It's called giving a good goddamn.

Oh, and here's a lightbulb.




Also while what the man did was absolutely horrendous... having worked with, and known many victims of abuse... typically it runs in cycles. The abusers tend to almost always have also been abused themselves at some point.

Typically? Hell no. That's a myth. If everyone who was abused in turn abused someone else, everyone on the planet would've been abused by now. (Think about it: many abusers have multiple victims.) I think a large majority of abuse victims *don't* go on to abuse someone else, or several someones---and having been abused is no excuse for abusing someone yourself.

The man was an adult, a respected person, and trusted to be around this child. If he was feeling urges, he should've sought help and whatever else he had to do, to stop himself from acting on them.

[the4thpip]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

Yes, yes you are. Do you have Asperger's or something?

[shrike]

Yes, yes you are. Do you have Asperger's or something?

No he's not, and can we PLEASE not begin with the name calling?

Jesus.

[Solaris]

Yes, yes you are. Do you have Asperger's or something?

I know people with Asperger's who would help out a friend... that's not a good comparison, pip.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Seriously? Ed just wants to be Contradictory. And, he (and his buddies) don't like me much. I would bet anything this thread is being discussed in some form on YMB and I am being mocked.

Don't confuse "Ass" with "Aspergers".

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I've been lucky to never had family or friends have this happen. Yes there has been incidents I've heard in WV about this. Here lately an old man was indicted for this but claims otherwise. Its a big case right now as he claims medically he could never get aroused anymore at his age ect ect.

Anyhow I can't fault MDM. He knew this kid very well. We'd have to put ourselves in his shoes and see how we'd react. How far would we go ? If I had a kid...well odds are I'd likely cross that line and not stop. Thats me...if I had a child and this happened ...the scumbag better pray he could run to the jail before I got him.

And Ed's not wrong about abuse running in cycles. Hell we always hear it from Law & Order : SVU.

[the4thpip]

No he's not, and can we PLEASE not begin with the name calling?

Jesus.


No no, it was a completely serious question based on his complete lack of empathy. I do have a degree in psychology, you know.

[Mr.EZ]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

Just shut the hell up.

[Matt Doc Martin]

I've been lucky to never had family or friends have this happen. Yes there has been incidents I've heard in WV about this. Here lately an old man was indicted for this but claims otherwise. Its a big case right now as he claims medically he could never get aroused anymore at his age ect ect.

Anyhow I can't fault MDM. He knew this kid very well. We'd have to put ourselves in his shoes and see how we'd react. How far would we go ? If I had a kid...well odds are I'd likely cross that line and not stop. Thats me...if I had a child and this happened ...the scumbag better pray he could run to the jail before I got him.

And Ed's not wrong about abuse running in cycles. Hell we always hear it from Law & Order : SVU.

Tv is not the best place to learn about this. Try a psychology class instead. Abuse does not HAVE to run in a cycle. people that were never abused can become abusers and there are people like me who were abused who do not. I was lucky...I saw the bad and recognized it for what it was.

And it is a horrible thing to go through. You never want to see someone that young and innocent be abused. And the hell the parents go through....being betrayed by someone they trust, feeling like they let their child down, etc.

Ed and Crowley wanted a free shot. They took it. *golf claps*

Doesn't change my opinion of the situation (or them) a bit.

And I slept great the last two nights knowing he was dead. Everyone I have talked to agrees it was teh best ending to a bad situation. Thankfully, I did not have to do it. But I would willingly do jail for killing a scumbag like he was.

[Crowley]

I don't take free shots, Martin. That's your game... as you've done time and time again with multiple posters and in multiple threads. You've been given multiple chance by me and others... but hey you can fuck right off. I'll put you back on ignore and wash my hand of you as this forum no doubt will someday as countless others have.

I taught in projects of Sarasota and West Palm Beach for 5 years and had to report several instances of child abuse. Always made me angry and sometimes deeply depressed. I would never gleefully post about not killing an obviously deeply troubled and disturbed man who went on to commit suicide... that's just me. That seems deeply troubling.

And abuse does go in cycles. Abuse victims don't always go on to abuse others, but abusers are almost always victims of abuse themselves. Doesn't excuse it... but it explains it a bit according to the LMHPs Idealt with, but I'll defer to anyone with a medical degree who wants to challenge that notion.

[Matt Algren]

I don't take free shots, Martin. That's your game... as you've done time and time again with multiple posters and in multiple threads. You've been given multiple chance by me and others... but hey you can fuck right off. I'll put you back on ignore and wash my hand of you as this forum no doubt will someday as countless others have.

I taught in projects of Sarasota and West Palm Beach for 5 years and had to report several instances of child abuse. Always made me angry and sometimes deeply depressed. I would never gleefully post about not killing an obviously deeply troubled and disturbed man who went on to commit suicide... that's just me. That seems deeply troubling.

And abuse does go in cycles. Abuse victims don't always go on to abuse others, but abusers are almost always victims of abuse themselves. Doesn't excuse it... but it explains it a bit according to the LMHPs Idealt with, but I'll defer to anyone with a medical degree who wants to challenge that notion.
Sorry, I didn't read any glee on the thread.

[Matt Doc Martin]

I don't take free shots, Martin. That's your game... as you've done time and time again with multiple posters and in multiple threads. You've been given multiple chance by me and others... but hey you can fuck right off. I'll put you back on ignore and wash my hand of you as this forum no doubt will someday as countless others have.

I taught in projects of Sarasota and West Palm Beach for 5 years and had to report several instances of child abuse. Always made me angry and sometimes deeply depressed. I would never gleefully post about not killing an obviously deeply troubled and disturbed man who went on to commit suicide... that's just me. That seems deeply troubling.

And abuse does go in cycles. Abuse victims don't always go on to abuse others, but abusers are almost always victims of abuse themselves. Doesn't excuse it... but it explains it a bit according to the LMHPs Idealt with, but I'll defer to anyone with a medical degree who wants to challenge that notion.

yeah...glee is what I feel.

Idiot.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Also while what the man did was absolutely horrendous... having worked with, and known many victims of abuse... typically it runs in cycles. The abusers tend to almost always have also been abused themselves at some point.

I specialize in working with survivors of abuse, and I have to say, when I see this sort of statement, I get quite pissed off.

Yes, it's true that most abusers - domestic violence perps, sexual molesters, pedophiles, rapists, etc. - have a history of having been abused themselves during childhood. That's very much true.

However, what that statement completely ignores is that the opposite isn't at all true. Most survivors of childhood abuse don't go on to abuse others, and many (probably most) of those that do go on to commit abuse against others stop doing so by mid-adolescence. In other words, they act out while working out what happened to them, but they grow out of it as part of growing into reasonably responsible adults.

That doesn't mean most survivors of horrible abuse aren't impacted by it, mind you. I wish that was the case, but the fact that I'm even *able* to have a full caseload specializing in treating abuse survivors demonstrates how far from true it is. But while they might struggle with lots of things, and have lots of problems, most survivors of abuse do not go on to inflict abuse onto others. Their empathy for what they experienced makes them make better choices - or, given the predisposition for self-destructive behavior common to many abuse survivors, it might be more accurate to say that even when they make poor choices as to how to handle the abuse, they choose to hurt mostly just themselves. They don't identify with the aggressor. They don't take out their hurt/anger on others. They don't become psychopathic shitbag monsters.

So, for those abusers who blame their abusive behavior on their own history of abuse, I offer only a big "fuck you." To suggest that their history excuses or causes their own abuse of others is a big spit in the face to the vast majority of abuse survivors who do not go on to spread that evil to others.

Matt, you did good. I dont know if I'd have been able to do the same under the same circumstances.

The world is better off with the molester dead.

[Yue]

I don’t believe in hell, but if there is one, I hope the cocksucker burns. I wish he could have suffered in prison, but I know he will never be around any kids..

Is that necessary?

[Matt Doc Martin]

Is that necessary?

I do not mean to offend all of the decent men and women who suck cock, so no. I did not do a "rough draft" of this. I simply typed what I typed. I used that word in anger against a bad man. I apologize if that bothers you.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Abuse does not HAVE to run in a cycle. people that were never abused can become abusers and there are people like me who were abused who do not. I was lucky...I saw the bad and recognized it for what it was.

It's called "being a mature human being with a conscience." The majority of abusers lack emotional maturity, a conscience, or both.

Most abusive adults tend to be extremely immature and self-centered individuals. A great many of them are psychopaths, and narcissistic and passive-aggressive personalities are also pretty common among the perp crowd. Many, probably most, of them would have been shitheads of some sort or another, though probably of a less loathesome type, even if they hadn't experienced abuse. At most, the abuse they experienced probably helped shape what specific sort of shithead they'd be.

[Jared H.]

Is that necessary?

For $%^&'s sake, man.

1) This is friggin YABS, where chaos reigns, and words wander unchecked.

2) If somebody molested someone close to me, I'duse whatever the $%^& euphamisms I damned well pleased to refer to them.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I specialize in working with survivors of abuse, and I have to say, when I see this sort of statement, I get quite pissed off.

Yes, it's true that most abusers - domestic violence perps, sexual molesters, pedophiles, rapists, etc. - have a history of having been abused themselves during childhood. That's very much true.

However, what that statement completely ignores is that the opposite isn't at all true. Most survivors of childhood abuse don't go on to abuse others, and many (probably most) of those that do go on to commit abuse against others stop doing so by mid-adolescence. In other words, they act out while working out what happened to them, but they grow out of it as part of growing into reasonably responsible adults.

That doesn't mean most survivors of horrible abuse aren't impacted by it, mind you. I wish that was the case, but the fact that I'm even *able* to have a full caseload specializing in treating abuse survivors demonstrates how far from true it is. But while they might struggle with lots of things, and have lots of problems, most survivors of abuse do not go on to inflict abuse onto others. Their empathy for what they experienced makes them make better choices - or, given the predisposition for self-destructive behavior common to many abuse survivors, it might be more accurate to say that even when they make poor choices as to how to handle the abuse, they choose to hurt mostly just themselves. They don't identify with the aggressor. They don't take out their hurt/anger on others. They don't become psychopathic shitbag monsters.

So, for those abusers who blame their abusive behavior on their own history of abuse, I offer only a big "fuck you." To suggest that their history excuses or causes their own abuse of others is a big spit in the face to the vast majority of abuse survivors who do not go on to spread that evil to others.

Matt, you did good. I dont know if I'd have been able to do the same under the same circumstances.

The world is better off with the molester dead.

I'll take your word on it since you are a pro at this type of thing JWK work wise and all. Thanks for the post here on the topic.

[Jared H.]

Yes, yes you are. Do you have Asperger's or something?

I DO have a goddamn Aspergers diagnosis, and I'm pretty convinced Ed's being a prick here.

I know people with Asperger's who would help out a friend... that's not a good comparison, pip.

Damn straight we would.

[Yue]

I do not mean to offend all of the decent men and women who suck cock, so no. I did not do a "rough draft" of this. I simply typed what I typed. I used that word in anger against a bad man. I apologize if that bothers you.

Good to know. :smile:

I think you were right to confront him, regardless of the conclusion. For him to do something as he did was inexcusable, and whether he knew that or not we'll never know. Either way, I wished he hadn't killed himself for the sole reason that a sick fuck like him deserved to rot in prison.

[Crowley]

I specialize in working with survivors of abuse, and I have to say, when I see this sort of statement, I get quite pissed off.

Yes, it's true that most abusers - domestic violence perps, sexual molesters, pedophiles, rapists, etc. - have a history of having been abused themselves during childhood. That's very much true.

However, what that statement completely ignores is that the opposite isn't at all true. Most survivors of childhood abuse don't go on to abuse others, and many (probably most) of those that do go on to commit abuse against others stop doing so by mid-adolescence. In other words, they act out while working out what happened to them, but they grow out of it as part of growing into reasonably responsible adults.

That doesn't mean most survivors of horrible abuse aren't impacted by it, mind you. I wish that was the case, but the fact that I'm even *able* to have a full caseload specializing in treating abuse survivors demonstrates how far from true it is. But while they might struggle with lots of things, and have lots of problems, most survivors of abuse do not go on to inflict abuse onto others. Their empathy for what they experienced makes them make better choices - or, given the predisposition for self-destructive behavior common to many abuse survivors, it might be more accurate to say that even when they make poor choices as to how to handle the abuse, they choose to hurt mostly just themselves. They don't identify with the aggressor. They don't take out their hurt/anger on others. They don't become psychopathic shitbag monsters.

So, for those abusers who blame their abusive behavior on their own history of abuse, I offer only a big "fuck you." To suggest that their history excuses or causes their own abuse of others is a big spit in the face to the vast majority of abuse survivors who do not go on to spread that evil to others.

Matt, you did good. I dont know if I'd have been able to do the same under the same circumstances.

The world is better off with the molester dead.
Jeff,
Thanks for weighing in. I clarified my statement further upthread.

[Yue]

2) If somebody molested someone close to me, I'duse whatever the $%^& euphamisms I damned well pleased to refer to them.

We live in a world where the gay community is consistently equated to pedophilia, and whereas MDM admitted the error, it's good to know we have people like you running around to pick up the slack.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Jeff,
Thanks for weighing in. I clarified my statement further upthread.

Yup, and I wasn't targeting you with my response so much as that general statement, which I hear all too often.

I will take issues with one thing you did say upthread, though. I don't think the abuser's history of abuse explains much about why the abuser abused, since most survivors of abuse don't themselves become abuse perpetrators.

As I already noted, the biggest explanatory factor in why an abuser is abusive, and why most survivors aren't, comes down to personality style, and that's shaped by a lot of things other than just the experience of abuse, not to mention being somewhat (or quite a bit, in the case of psychopaths) biologically determined.

[Jared H.]

We live in a world where the gay community is consistently equated to pedophilia, and whereas MDM admitted the error, it's good to know we have people like you running around to pick up the slack.

Oh for God's sake. Of COURSE pedophilia and homosexuality are two completely different things. You'd have to be an idiot to think they're related.

The point I was trying to make was that Matt is incredibly angry at this @$$hole, and is using whatever invective comes to mind. Only a complete and utter imbecile would think he's trying to condemn gays by calling this guy what he did. I mean, if he'd called the guy a mother$%^&er, does that mean that he thinks all pedophiles are products of maternal incest?

So YOU need to stop overreacting here, buttercup. Like, thinking I'm dumb enough to believe all gays are pedophiles. Not appreciated. Grow some friggin thicker epidermis, pal.

[Yue]

Oh for God's sake. Of COURSE pedophilia and homosexuality are two completely different things. You'd have to be an idiot to think they're related.

The point I was trying to make was that Matt is incredibly angry at this @$$hole, and is using whatever invective comes to mind. Only a complete and utter imbecile would think he's trying to condemn gays by calling this guy what he did.

So YOU need to stop overreacting here, buttercup. Like, thinking I'm dumb enough to believe all gays are pedophiles. Not appreciated.

I asked him to clarify, and he did. I didn't jump on him, I didn't attack him, I asked a simple question.

But you've covered everything else just fine.

[Jared H.]

I asked him to clarify, and he did. I didn't jump on him, I didn't attack him, I asked a simple question.

But you've covered everything else just fine.

Where was the attack, pray tell? When I reminded you of where you were and the rules(or lack thereof) here, or when I defended Matt's right to call a disgusting pervert whatever the hell he wanted to?

I'm thinking the attack was more when you accused me of being a bigoted idiot who thinks all gays are pedos when I said absolutely nothing indicating so. That was very kind of you.

Edit: you know what? this isn't the place to do this. Matt, I'm sorry for screwing up your thread. Mods, please delete as necessary to preserve this thread's real purpose.

[Mr.EZ]

For $%^&'s sake, man.

1) This is friggin YABS, where chaos reigns, and words wander unchecked.

2) If somebody molested someone close to me, I'duse whatever the $%^& euphamisms I damned well pleased to refer to them.

*stands and applauds*

Well said, sir.

[Yue]

Where was the attack, pray tell? When I reminded you of where you were and the rules(or lack thereof) here, or when I defended Matt's right to call a disgusting pervert whatever the hell he wanted to?

I'm thinking the attack was more when you accused me of being a bigoted idiot who thinks all gays are pedos when I said absolutely nothing indicating so. That was very kind of you.

Edit: you know what? this isn't the place to do this. Matt, I'm sorry for screwing up your thread. Mods, please delete as necessary to preserve this thread's real purpose.

I asked a question. On a discussion board. I didn't realize that wasn't allowed.

If you noticed, after MDM clarified, I defended his actions (seeing as there's some debate here over that for some wierd reason?) You went on the attack, I didn't, over a simple question. THAT's where you've covered everything.

Language in the heat of the moment isn't an excuse. If anything, it reveals a lot more about the person then everyday life ever will.

And to clarify my statement, I didn't accuse of you of equating pedophilia, I accused of excusing circumstantial bullshit under 'the heat of the moment'. I should've been more specific, but it doesn't excuse your obvious need for mood stabilizers.

Either way, I'm done with this.

MDM, you did good. I forgot to ask, seeing as he's (unfortunately) a family member, how's the whole funeral thing going to go down?

Please tell me they're going to cremate him and flush his ashes down the toilet. It's a classic.

[Mr.EZ]

I asked a question. On a discussion board. I didn't realize that wasn't aloud.

It's not aloud, it's typed. Unless you have one of those machine voice things that reads text to you, and why would you have it if you didn't need it?

Those things are creepy as hell.

[Matt Doc Martin]

I asked a question. On a discussion board. I didn't realize that wasn't aloud.

If you noticed, after MDM clarified, I defended his actions (seeing as there's some debate here over that for some wierd reason?) You went on the attack, I didn't, over a simple question. THAT's where you've covered everything.

Language in the heat of the moment isn't an excuse. If anything, it reveals a lot more about the person then everyday life ever will.

And to clarify my statement, I didn't accuse of you of equating pedophilia, I accused of excusing circumstantial bullshit under 'the heat of the moment'. I should've been more specific, but it doesn't excuse your obvious need for mood stabilizers.

Either way, I'm done with this.

MDM, you did good. I forgot to ask, seeing as he's (unfortunately) a family member, how's the whole funeral thing going to go down?

Please tell me they're going to cremate him and flush his ashes down the toilet. It's a classic.


No funeral. He has already been cremated, once they took blood for toxicology tests. His ashes are being shipped to his family (who live in another country).

He will not even have an obituary here.

[Yue]

It's not aloud, it's typed. Unless you have one of those machine voice things that reads text to you, and why would you have it if you didn't need it?

Those things are creepy as hell.

I'd give a round of applause for your maturity if only I could actually see it.

[Yue]

No funeral. He has already been cremated, once they took blood for toxicology tests. His ashes are being shipped to his family (who live in another country).

He will not even have an obituary here.

Another country? Shit.

I wouldn't wish that phone call on anyone.

[shrike]

This is an ugly thread on so many levels.

[Mr.EZ]

I'd give a round of applause for your maturity if only I could actually see it.

You can't see me because we're online. Same reason you can't hear our voices either.

You must be new at this.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Another country? Shit.

I wouldn't wish that phone call on anyone.

They have been making harassing phone calls, accusing the father of being a murderer and the child of lying.

Never mind that he admitted it to anyone who asked.

But they are in pain for the loss, so I can understand to a point.

[Yue]

You can't see me because we're online. Same reason you can't hear our voices either.

You must be new at this.

And with a sparkling personality such as yours, it's a wonder why there's so few new posters.

[Yue]

They have been making harassing phone calls, accusing the father of being a murderer and the child of lying.

Never mind that he admitted it to anyone who asked.

But they are in pain for the loss, so I can understand to a point.

I don't really know what to say to that. I mean, grief is a weird thing.

I guess since he's a step-grandfather, there's no biological relation to his side of the family. Which hopefully means that if they continue to pull this kind of shit, you won't have to hear from them much longer.

[Mr.EZ]

And with a sparkling personality such as yours, it's a wonder why there's so few new posters.

I agree, it's all my fault. CBR should take me out back and have me killed so the millions outside it's gates can flood in.

[Jared H.]

It has been brought to my attention that the word Matt used has actually been used to imply that someone is in fact homosexual. While this does make sense in retrospect to me, I have always heard it used as an all-purpose curseword(the only time I can recall hearing it actually spoken was in the film "The Rock" where the CIA director calls Shawn Connery's character one after he dislocares the director's shoulder via bedsheets).

I'm quite sure Matt did not mean to imply anything of the sort. And if he had, I would like to think I would never defend such a thing.

So, I offer my apologies at taking offense at someone else's taking offense to that word. I did not realize the word had taken on those connotations. I for one shall endeavor never to use it in any sense ever again.

Once again, Matt, sorry for cluttering up your thread.


As for the topic at hand: I think the lack of a funeral is a good choice here. It's quite impossible to honor anything about such a person's life given the overwhelming weight and nearness of the crimes committed.

[bert]

It has been brought to my attention that the word Matt used has actually been used to imply that someone is in fact homosexual. While this does make sense in retrospect to me, I have always heard it used as an all-purpose curseword(the only time I can recall hearing it actually spoken was in the film "The Rock" where the CIA director calls Shawn Connery's character one after he dislocares the director's shoulder via bedsheets).

I'm quite sure Matt did not mean to imply anything of the sort. And if he had, I would like to think I would never defend such a thing.

So, I offer my apologies at taking offense at someone else's taking offense to that word. I did not realize the word had taken on those connotations. I for one shall endeavor never to use it in any sense ever again.

Once again, Matt, sorry for cluttering up your thread.


As for the topic at hand: I think the lack of a funeral is a good choice here. It's quite impossible to honor anything about such a person's life given the overwhelming weight and nearness of the crimes committed.


I hear it as a simple curse, so it hasn't taken on those connotations for all folks (or even all gay folks).

"Deadwood" was pretty historically accurate, and Cocksucker was pretty much every other word. . and it was meant as an insult only. Not to imply that the person being insulted was gay.

anyways. . I haven't weighed in on this thread because I like Matt. In fact, I like Matt very much.

I think he has some anger issues, and sometimes they come out in a very unflattering way.

Matt didn't handle this as I would have. . . but he did show amazing restraint, based on my above comment about anger issues.

I'll shed no tears the guy is dead tho. . .

and give the child a hug for me Matt, the next time you see her.

[Solaris]

Matt does have some anger issues... and part of the reason why is clearly shown in his response re: his growing up. And I agree 100% that he showed good restraint, especially in the face of those issues.

I'm not sure I would've gone, alone, to confront the man. I might have, I might not---a lot of it depended on how well I could control my anger, how the police were handling it, etc. Going to face him was risky (aside from the risk Matt might lose control): the man might have reacted violently, then or later, maybe shooting or hurting Matt or someone else. You never know what a cornered rat will do. In this case, thankfully, he chose to flee and not fight/argue with Matt.

For myself, I just don't know what I would've done---and hopefully, I'll never have to find out.

The bottom line is, Matt wanted to kill the man and didn't. And that's a good step on his part.

As for the little girl and her family, I hope they are getting help and counseling, and my prayers are with them.

[Solaris]

Oh, and thank you to Jeffrey for contributing his info on abusers using the "I was abused" excuse. Speaking for the tens of thousands of abuse survivors who *don't* go on to abuse someone else, I (and I dare say "we") find that excuse abusers use to be particularly anger-causing... because when someone accepts it, they are, in essence, spitting on all the hard work we non-abusive surviviors have done to try to heal ourselves.

[Yue]

I hear it as a simple curse, so it hasn't taken on those connotations for all folks (or even all gay folks).

"Deadwood" was pretty historically accurate, and Cocksucker was pretty much every other word. . and it was meant as an insult only. Not to imply that the person being insulted was gay.

anyways. . I haven't weighed in on this thread because I like Matt. In fact, I like Matt very much.

I think he has some anger issues, and sometimes they come out in a very unflattering way.

Matt didn't handle this as I would have. . . but he did show amazing restraint, based on my above comment about anger issues.

I'll shed no tears the guy is dead tho. . .

and give the child a hug for me Matt, the next time you see her.

It varies from place to place, which I understand. Up here in the land of maple leaves, it's basically a minor yet derogatory form of faggot.

Regardless, MDM meant no harm, therefore, no foul.

As for Jared, if the apology was directed at me (I'm not sure), consider it accepted.

[Cam63]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

You may be on your own there, Ed.

I'm proud Matt got involved. Too many people know of stuff like this happening and choosing to do fuck all.

[Cam63]

Is that necessary?

He molested a child. Calling him a name and hoping he burns in Hell seems OK to me.

[Spike-X]

So I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's kind of f-ed up that MDM felt the need to insert himself into this horrible situation?

Pretty much, yeah.

'Minding your own business' is what allows people to get away with doing this kind of shit.

[Spike-X]

Never mind. Already addressed.

[EdContradictory]

No no, it was a completely serious question based on his complete lack of empathy. I do have a degree in psychology, you know.

Um, I can empathize with the family and victim (which I do) and still think it's wrong to potentially make things much worse by inserting yourself into a situation in the wrong way (which I feel MDM did).

But thanks, pip, good to know that all the time we've chatted here in the past mean absolutely nothing to you.

[Cam63]

I still got no problem with how Matt handled it.

[Alan Lynch]

I can see why some folks might disagree with how Matt handled things, or even his discussing it here. Absolutely. I don't; he knew everyone involved, and he made his feelings clear without resorting to actual violence. I think it's about the most sensible thing anyone could've done given the circumstances.

[Cam63]

I don't know of any courts that would've convicted anyone who accidently punched the shit outta the bastard.

[The Dame]

Huh, Cam?

How do you accidentally hit a person more than once?

Not saying the person in question wouldn't have deserved it, just that it's hard to argue that it was an accident.

BTW Matt, good on you that you had a verbal and not physical confrontation with this person. I wish somebody, anybody had the will to do the same when I was 3. Even if my aunt had had the inspiration to do so when I was 9, things might have been different for me.

If you need an explanation of the above, see Michigan Man post 100
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7210362&postcount=100

[Alan Lynch]

Huh, Cam?

How do you accidentally hit a person more than once?

Not saying the person in question wouldn't have deserved it, just that it's hard to argue that it was an accident.
Cam could convince most people of anything. Also, I think he's kidding :tongue:

[Cam63]

Huh, Cam?

How do you accidentally hit a person more than once?

Not saying the person in question wouldn't have deserved it, just that it's hard to argue that it was an accident.

You help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down.

...Eventually your fist accidently starts to get tired, so you stop helping him get up.

[Matt Algren]

You help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down.

...Eventually your fist accidently starts to get tired, so you stop helping him get up.
This kicking motion is chronic, I swear!

[Cam63]

Call it a nervous tic.

[Matt Algren]

Yeah, this guy, see, he makes me reeeeally nervous.

[Spike-X]

You help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down.


Some people are just really, really clumsy.

[Matt Doc Martin]

You help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down, you help him up, he accidently falls down.

...Eventually your fist accidently starts to get tired, so you stop helping him get up.

This kicking motion is chronic, I swear!

Some people are just really, really clumsy.

I like you all.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

It all seems very simple to me. Perhaps I can see it because I'm simple. Heh.

But all I see is Matt being honest and confessing and sharing the thoughts and actions he took in the wake of this terrible and shocking situation. That family (and Matt) will be bearing this for some time to come as it is. This I imagine was a cathartic thing for Matt to do. He never once says what he did was right or wrong. He simply shared what he thought or did. And regardless given his reported frame of mind, exercised incredible restraint. A restraint I'm not sure I could have utilized if it were a child I knew and loved. I hope I would.

But I won't be mourning the molester, I must confess.