Uncanny X-Men #500 Review and Spoilers

[frog]

Actually thats another retarded stunt Scott just did he announced to every evil mutant exactly where they are located and practically said "come and get us"

"Hey! Come on down to our new super safe and super secret base . . . Oops."


We should start wagers on how long before the bridge has to be rebuilt.

[jarrod]

Not always but it seems to be in this particular instance. It's a matter of degrees. To what extent is continuity important? That kind of thing.
Well, I think that's hard to really quantify as a unique element at all. Continuity isn't on the side by itself, it's really an overarching terms factoring into other things like characterization, logic, plot, precedent, and so on. I do agree though, it's not all or nothing in this area, and I think trying to set some arbitrary standard outside specific context is pretty useless in itself.

And again, subjective takes factor in too... I personally think it's less important generally when the overall quality of the narrative is higher... in a way that ensures the distraction of breaking continuity is lessened, and the focus shifted to other parts. Actually this works for particularly terrible stories too, where it hurts is more mundane, average stories, where there's not really much else to talk about.

[pariah-1972]

or maybe after all that they finally decided their old methods were clearly not working & never fully did, so it was high time to do something different about it?Fine you guys can reason all you want out of this but it doesn't excuse the crappyness of Kyle and Yost and this will come back and bite Summers in the ass big time.

[LawGiver]

No you didn't i just checked you just can't admit when your wrong:rolleyes:

I said bring them all to San Fran is completely different from the mansion, SF is a city, a big city, the mansion is a time place, it's not hard to drop a missle or a bomb on the mansion. It'll much harder to take out the X-Men w/o their exact location known.

[pariah-1972]

"Hey! Come on down to our new super safe and super secret base . . . Oops."


We should start wagers on how long before the bridge has to be rebuilt.

I think we should start taking wagers on how long before their super secret base is completely destroyed.
Who cares about the bridge?

[frog]

I think we should start taking wagers on how long before their super secret base is completely destroyed.
Who cares about the bridge?

The bridge isn't far from the base, and you just know that the artists will be itching to draw it falling into the water. It's toast.

[LawGiver]

or maybe after all that they finally decided their old methods were clearly not working & never fully did, so it was high time to do something different about it?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

I've been trying to get that point across, it's not working, it's being ignored.

[pariah-1972]

I said bring them all to San Fran is completely different from the mansion, SF is a city, a big city, the mansion is a time place, it's not hard to drop a missle or a bomb on the mansion. It'll much harder to take out the X-Men w/o their exact location known.Even if one of the evil mutants cant figure out how to trace back the message either Psychically or via technology it's a pretty stupid stunt.
I would like to know what army general leaders think of this tactic of letting your enemies know exactly where you are staying.

[KiplingKat]

I guess we'll just have to read on to find out, or are you one of those people who just refuses to enjoy a good mystery? You snuck down in the middle of the night on Christmas Eve didn't you? You went looking for your birthday presents right?

Honestly, as I explained in an earlier post, being of a fan of Magneto is like being a fan of Wolverine and not knowing whether he is going to be kicking ass or picking daises from one appearance to the next because his character development is rarely rational, but instead guided by the writers feeling about the character.

Lobdell came to hate Magneto because the fans wouldn't accept the neutered Joseph and editorial told him to end it. So his protrayal of the Magneto became progressively more and more negative, culminating in Eve of Destruction which is a Silver Age Magneto. Morrison hated the character and turned him into a genocidal drug addled lunatic. Claremont came back and over compensated, making Magneto inexplicably passive and bowing down to Xavier's philosophies.

Brubaker has already used Magneto as a blatant marketing ploy with no intent to develop him or write him in character and continuity, and his use of Magneto here indicates to me that that trend is continuing. I don't trust him to care enough about what "the mystery" is, Brubaker's stories have not been good enough to make up the deficit he created here.

[pariah-1972]

The bridge isn't far from the base, and you just know that the artists will be itching to draw it falling into the water. It's toast.True but wouldn't that be a homage to the last X-men movie anyways?

[frog]

True but wouldn't that be a homage to the last X-men movie anyways?

Well, that way Land can get some stills from the film and have something to trace!

[pariah-1972]

Honestly, as I explained in an earlier post, being of a fan of Magneto is like being a fan of Wolverine and not knowing whether he is going to be kicking ass or picking daises from one appearance to the next because his character development is rarely rational, but instead guided by the writers feeling about the character.

Lobdell came to hate Magneto because the fans wouldn't accept the neutered Joseph and editorial told him to end it. So his protrayal of the Magneto became progressively more and more negative, culminating in Eve of Destruction which is a Silver Age Magneto. Morrison hated the character and turned him into a genocidal drug addled lunatic. Claremont came back and over compensated, making Magneto inexplicably passive and bowing down to Xavier's philosophies.

Brubaker has already used Magneto as a blatant marketing ploy with no intent to develop him or write him in character and continuity, and his use of Magneto here indicates to me that that trend is continuing. I don't trust him to care enough about what "the mystery" is, Brubaker's stories have not been good enough to make up the deficit he created here.Blame Fraction it's much easier.

Bru is a great writer.

[Deus ex Chris]

Well, I think that's hard to really quantify as a unique element at all. Continuity isn't on the side by itself, it's really an overarching terms factoring into other things like characterization, logic, plot, precedent, and so on. I do agree though, it's not all or nothing in this area, and I think trying to set some arbitrary standard outside specific context is pretty useless in itself.

And again, subjective takes factor in too... I personally think it's less important generally when the overall quality of the narrative is higher... in a way that ensures the distraction of breaking continuity is lessened, and the focus shifted to other parts. Actually this works for particularly terrible stories too, where it hurts is more mundane, average stories, where there's not really much else to talk about.
I don't...disagree with you.

Curious.

[LawGiver]

The term "marketing ploy" is lazy excuse for not liking something. This is a business, everything is done to #1 sell copies and #2 tell stories people might be interested in reading. Magneto is a popular character in X-Men lure, so it's not hard to see why they would include him. Stop using marketting as an excuse to hate something, it's lazy.

[KiplingKat]

The term "marketing ploy" is lazy excuse for not liking something. This is a business, everything is done to #1 sell copies and #2 tell stories people might be interested in reading. Magneto is a popular character in X-Men lure, so it's not hard to see why they would include him. Stop using marketting as an excuse to hate something, it's lazy.

You kind of made my point there. If you are including a character only because he is popular, marketing is guiding your creative decisions.

And Brubaker used Magneto as a marketing ploy. He said so in interviews. Up to and during Extremists, Brubaker made a lot of noise about the "search for Magneto" and how it was going to be a big shift for the character...only to have the character shuffle around in the back ground and go away without changing or doing much of anything, other than forgetting Skids used to work for him. He was just there.

After Extremists was over, he said "Well, the whole thing with Magneto was just a red herring..."

And now the book seems to have been forgotten, "Still a mutant" seems to have been forgotten....so what was the point of including him in the story?

Given that his stories have been meandering, pointless, horribly paced, and his characterization slight off to really bad (not to mention Deadly Genesis, which I hate for oh, so many reasons), he did not have the clout to fake me out/lie to me like that and get away with it. And he does not have the clout now.

[tetragene]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

I've been trying to get that point across, it's not working, it's being ignored.

yeah, I meant, honestly--it's not THAT difficult to understand. Certain people just want to bitch and whine...for the sake of bitching & whining, quite obviously. I mean, some people can't buy Scott/the X-Men's morals changing after years of playing the same old cards and regime over and over again--despite no results? I'd call it bad writing to have them to CONTINUE doing that crap with all recent events considered.

Also--some people can buy Magneto turning into a good guy & helping run Xavier's school back in the day despite his villainy and craziness in prior years--but can't buy him battling the X-men as a distraction because he wants to be the entire mutant race's personal savior? Even though he's always had a martyr complex about himself and a definite superiority complex about the mutant race? Please. He wasn't even back to his old "all humans must be punished" crap from the old days--so not sure where the justification for all the "omg, they reverted him to silver age Magneto!" rants are coming from...

[darknessatnoon]

Right, and as comics are serials, one story flowing into another, they need continuity within that story. In essence, all of (Uncanny) X-Men, from issue #1 published in 1963 to Issue #500, is one single story.

KiplingKat,

You're smart, so that's why your stubbornness on certain issues confuses me. It's not one story. That's naive. New creators should not be slaves to what happens before. They should be respectful of the property (to a degree) and readers can treasure old stories, but to imagine that over 40 plus years Writers X & Y of issue 500 should have to care deeply about what Writer Z wrote in issue 200 is really naive. The property is no longer shepherded by one person. Writer Z got 14 years or so on the title. That story is over. And your weird claims that stories should not be the instrument of marketing? Well, look at this economy. The editorial staff you're so quick to lambast all the time saved Marvel from going bankrupt. There would be no X-Men stories now and no Magneto if it weren't for them.

Also, I can't believe you think it's a good idea for some kid (who is not an editor) to sit there and tell Brubaker that his story needs a rewrite because it doesn't take into account Magneto's mood in New Avengers #20. Be practical.

My criticisms of this issue?

It's obvious that the mayor is a lesbian. Do they really think we'll believe Warren's bagging her?

Also, property rates in Marin are astronomical. Just as bad as the City. Who do they think they're fooling?

Peter Sanderson was hired by Marvel to research the enitire Marvel Universe for The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe project inspired by Contest of Champions (read the back entries). If you love the job, it's not a job. Sanderson left his editorial position within Marvel to become a writer. He would also be hired by DC Comics to fulfill a similar position for DC Comics's original Who's Who.

Sanderson already had was a fountainhead of information if you are familiar with his many published letters to Marvel Comics.

With executive editor, Mark Gruenwald, they did a tremendous job on the series. It was grueling work since every entry was constantly updated. However, I see the entries as worth the time & patience in the research.

There's other writers as well, but these two--Mark Gruenwald & Peter Sanderson--stand out.

This is a job can could be done if Marvel really wants it to be done; however, Marvel must find the right person to fulfill this job.

LOL!

Clearly you are the right person? Can you be in New York Monday morning?

There's so many fundamental glaring errors in Uncanny X-Men #500 that we are beyond discussing the book itself, but the errors the editors overlooked.

Kipling Kat adds to discussion. I don't see any negatives he brings to the board.

ERRRR .... CONTINUITY ERROR
KiplingKat is a woman. I'm sorry if that destroys your erection.

Please check your facts.

[KiplingKat]

Also--some people can buy Magneto turning into a good guy & helping run Xavier's school back in the day despite his villainy and craziness in prior years--but can't buy him battling the X-men as a distraction because he wants to be the entire mutant race's personal savior? Even though he's always had a martyr complex about himself and a definite superiority complex about the mutant race? Please. He wasn't even back to his old "all humans must be punished" crap from the old days--so not sure where the justification for all the "omg, they reverted him to silver age Magneto!" rants are coming from...

Because it ignores 8 years of character development.

People forget how long a transition it was from Magneto being a bad guy into his reformation period. From X-men #150 to his taking over the school was 5 years. It was not a sudden over night thing, and even then he was kind of forced into it by circumstances. He never actually said Xavier's way was the right way, he was fulfilling a promise and came to care for the New Mutants. He even said in one issue, "I am an X-Man now, and I will play by your rules..." Not, "Yay skippy! Peace, love and joy!"

His falling out of his reformation period back to villainy was just about as long a process. The X-Men faked their death at a point when all of Magneto's worst nightmares were coming true (Mutant Massacre, Mutant Registration Act, Doug Ramsey being killed), and he fell back into his "comfort zone" amassing power within the HFC. After he broke with them, when confronted with Zaladane he decided Xavier's way did not work.

But even then, that period had an effect on his character. He went from wanting to conquer the world to working for mutant separatism. He was a LOT nicer to his subordinates. It was a two steps forward, one step back progression. He wasn't even very factionalist, he offered the X-Men a place in Avalon. Which makes sense given his statement of how he viewed the X-Men as troublesome heirs in God Loves, Man Kills.

It was not turn-on-a-dime, "Raaagh, I hate the X-men now! Despite having saved Xavier's bacon and he saving my own while being perfectly cordial about it only a couple months ago".

Recently, there has been an 8 year build up of putting the character at the center of these huge universe and character altering events, from the Genoshan Massacre to M-Day & New Avengers #20..and they've basically gone back to treating him as a straight villain.

On a dime.

[pariah-1972]

yeah, I meant, honestly--it's not THAT difficult to understand. Certain people just want to bitch and whine...for the sake of bitching & whining, quite obviously. I mean, some people can't buy Scott/the X-Men's morals changing after years of playing the same old cards and regime over and over again--despite no results? I'd call it bad writing to have them to CONTINUE doing that crap with all recent events considered.

.Obviously your not smart enough to get the gist of what i'm saying.

Scott picked the wrong time to change his morals he should have done it when the mansion was under attack and then he could have saved some of the children.

And now he is going to be leader of a public team and the media isn't going to find out that he hired or gave permission for a secret murdering strike force against a cult of human racists?
yeah thats gonna backfire like crazy.

[RoguishGurl]

Scott picked the wrong time to change his morals he should have done it when the mansion was under attack and then he could have saved some of the children.
Well, that wouldn't have made sense because those events led to the change of his morals.


And I will not post in this thread anymore.

[chickrockguitar]

Just got my copy today.

I was't impressed much, to be honist.
The only part I liked was the last part with Pixie and the Hell Fire Cult...

[Swashbuckler]

Because it ignores 8 years of character development.

People forget how long a transition it was from Magneto being a bad guy into his reformation period. From X-men #150 to his taking over the school was 5 years. It was not a sudden over night thing, and even then he was kind of forced into it by circumstances. He never actually said Xavier's way was the right way, he was fulfilling a promise and came to care for the New Mutants. He even said in one issue, "I am an X-Man now, and I will play by your rules..." Not, "Yay skippy! Peace, love and joy!"

His falling out of his reformation period back to villainy was just about as long a process. The X-Men faked their death at a point when all of Magneto's worst nightmares were coming true (Mutant Massacre, Mutant Registration Act, Doug Ramsey being killed), and he fell back into his "comfort zone" amassing power within the HFC. After he broke with them, when confronted with Zaladane he decided Xavier's way did not work.

But even then, that period had an effect on his character. He went from wanting to conquer the world to working for mutant separatism. He was a LOT nicer to his subordinates. It was a two steps forward, one step back progression. He wasn't even very factionalist, he offered the X-Men a place in Avalon. Which makes sense given his statement of how he viewed the X-Men as troublesome heirs in God Loves, Man Kills.

It was not turn-on-a-dime, "Raaagh, I hate the X-men now! Despite having saved Xavier's bacon and he saving my own while being perfectly cordial about it only a couple months ago".

Recently, there has been an 8 year build up of putting the character at the center of these huge universe and character altering events, from the Genoshan Massacre to M-Day & New Avengers #20..and they've basically gone back to treating him as a straight villain.

On a dime.

I kind of considered what Magneto did in 500 to have been a distraction. It wasn't even the main purpose of what the "bad guys" wanted to accomplish. Wasn't he just trying to keep the X-Men occupied while H.E. harvested the Celestial?

[pariah-1972]

I kind of considered what Magneto did in 500 to have been a distraction. It wasn't even the main purpose of what the "bad guys" wanted to accomplish. Wasn't he just trying to keep the X-Men occupied while H.E. harvested the Celestial?Obviously he was but why did he need to distract them when they are at a media gathering/party? they ended up finding out what he was up too when they might not have before right?

[Flâneur]

Honestly, as I explained in an earlier post, being of a fan of Magneto is like being a fan of Wolverine and not knowing whether he is going to be kicking ass or picking daises from one appearance to the next because his character development is rarely rational, but instead guided by the writers feeling about the character.

Lobdell came to hate Magneto because the fans wouldn't accept the neutered Joseph and editorial told him to end it. So his protrayal of the Magneto became progressively more and more negative, culminating in Eve of Destruction which is a Silver Age Magneto. Morrison hated the character and turned him into a genocidal drug addled lunatic. Claremont came back and over compensated, making Magneto inexplicably passive and bowing down to Xavier's philosophies.

Brubaker has already used Magneto as a blatant marketing ploy with no intent to develop him or write him in character and continuity, and his use of Magneto here indicates to me that that trend is continuing. I don't trust him to care enough about what "the mystery" is, Brubaker's stories have not been good enough to make up the deficit he created here.
You do realise that continuity is all about marketing and branding, right? Maintain the iconic character without progression, licence the icon, make reprints, create a shared continuity so that you can put all these icons together for crossovers and then make dollars on it.

Creating new stories and ideas sell on their own platform, progression sells itself on the creativity of the product. A branded object, like the continuity mired Magneto you long for, relies on the charismatic relationship one binds oneself in without need for a quality writer or the money needed to employ one. Why else do you think CC's New Excalibur outsold almost everything in Icon, Marvel Knights, MAX and Vertigo? The continuity you want and rant about is Marvel's biggest marketing tool and you want more of it.

You also have this ridiculous notion that writers hate their characters. Honestly. If they hated them then they wouldn't pay any attention to them nor use them, they wouldn't bother using him in a way to deliberately piss of a select bunch of fans. Someone having a view drastically different from what you think neither makes them a crap writer nor a hater.

[KiplingKat]

KiplingKat,

You're smart, so that's why your stubbornness on certain issues confuses me. It's not one story.

Yeah it is. One story with chapters, events in one chapter slowly developed as the main story line plays out in prior chapters.

That's naive.

That isn't naive, that is what "serial" means. Comic books are a serial medium. They aren't Star Trek, they're Babylon 5.

New creators should not be slaves to what happens before. They should be respectful of the property (to a degree) and readers can treasure old stories, but to imagine that over 40 plus years Writers X & Y of issue 500 should have to care deeply about what Writer Z wrote in issue 200 is really naive. The property is no longer shepherded by one person. Writer Z got 14 years or so on the title. That story is over. And your weird claims that stories should not be the instrument of marketing? Well, look at this economy. The editorial staff you're so quick to lambast all the time saved Marvel from going bankrupt.

No, getting rid Pearlman and getting out of that stupid distribution scheme, and then going public, is what saved Marvel from going bankrupt.

Also, I can't believe you think it's a good idea for some kid (who is not an editor) to sit there and tell Brubaker that his story needs a rewrite because it doesn't take into account Magneto's mood in New Avengers #20. Be practical.

Wow, you guys really like strawmen here don't you? You use them so much.

I never said the researcher would have editorial clout. In fact I specifically said they would not. They are only there to provide a service. The editor would make the final decision, proviso they actually to their jobs.

[KiplingKat]

You do realise that continuity is all about marketing and branding, right? Maintain the iconic character without progression, licence the icon, make reprints, create a shared continuity so that you can put all these icons together for crossovers and then make dollars on it.

No, I foolishly thought continuity was about storytelling.

Creating new stories and ideas sell on their own platform, progression

Stop right there.

Progression is within continuity. That is character development.

Changing characterization on a dime for no reason is not.

sells itself on the creativity of the product. A branded object, like the continuity mired Magneto you long for, relies on the charismatic relationship one binds oneself in without need for a quality writer or the money needed to employ one.

And if the character is suddenly made uncharistmatic by the writer?

Why else do you think CC's New Excalibur outsold almost everything in Icon, Marvel Knights, MAX and Vertigo?

Because CC likes contuity, he can play with it. Because he's a good writer.

You also have this ridiculous notion that writers hate their characters.

Because they do.

"What people often forget, of course, is that Magneto, unlike the lovely Sir Ian McKellen, is a mad old terrorist twat. No matter how he justifies his stupid, brutal behaviour, or how anyone else tries to justify it, in the end he's just an old bastard with daft, old ideas based on violence and coercion. I really wanted to make that clear at this time." ~ Grant Morrison

Yeah, it really sounds like Morrison has an unbiased opinion of the character there.

Of course they have characters they hate. Writers and artists are no different than fans, they have characters they love and character they hate. Claremont didn't like Dazzler and wrote her as a shallow and insecure. He loves Magneto, so he developed him into a three dimensional charismatic leader. Bryne always played up Nightcrawler for comedy, while Claremont kept trying to build him up more dramatically.

[KiplingKat]

I kind of considered what Magneto did in 500 to have been a distraction. It wasn't even the main purpose of what the "bad guys" wanted to accomplish. Wasn't he just trying to keep the X-Men occupied while H.E. harvested the Celestial?

Yes, but it raises the three issues I mentioned earlier:

Why would they bother to distract the X-men to achieve a goal the X-men would support?

Why would Magneto use Sentinels to attack the X-Men? Using a machine that had killed 16 million people on Genosha would make the Sentinels analogous to Hitler in Magneto's eyes. Magneto isn't going to use Hitler to save mutants. He is going to destroy him on sight, which is what he should have done here if he was being written in character. Had Magneto swooped in, destroyed the Sentinels, and tried to kill the artist that would have been far more in character than using genocidal robots to attack a group of the few remaining mutants left.

Why did Magneto have to create such a convoluted distraction to begin with.

And why was he acting like such an ass during the entire episode?

[bluedmighty]

Man this jant sidducked :mad:

I want my money back

[Flâneur]

Brand continuity is all about marketing. Why else do you think we're reading a universe where Wolverine has a background with everyone that can be referenced?


Stop right there.

Progression is within continuity. That is character development.

Changing characterization on a dime for no reason is not.
You've clearly been listening to the points made differentiating the continuity within a narrative and the continuity within a brand.

And if the character is suddenly made uncharistmatic by the writer?

Charismatic relationship, not charismatic character. Charismatic relationships are one way ones as opposed to platonic and romantic, celebrities and even fictional characters are often the subject of these. Read up on it, it's interesting. Very relevant to you.

Because CC likes contuity, he can play with it.
And abuse it. But you miss the point - they're in this shared continuous universe where it's 'canon' and 'matters' and 'really happened'. He didn't sell those books on his writing skills, he sold those books because they came pre-packaged with fans of those icons.

Or were you making a cloaked reference to CC and bondage?

Because they do.

"What people often forget, of course, is that Magneto, unlike the lovely Sir Ian McKellen, is a mad old terrorist twat. No matter how he justifies his stupid, brutal behaviour, or how anyone else tries to justify it, in the end he's just an old bastard with daft, old ideas based on violence and coercion. I really wanted to make that clear at this time." ~ Grant Morrison
How is that hating a character? Have you ever read about a villain? Ever?

A character doesn't need to be written as Mother Theresa in a helmet with the power to move the planet for a writer to enjoy writing them.

[darknessatnoon]

And why was he acting like such an ass during the entire episode?

Because he is an ass.

I read Rivka's psych profile of him. All 15 pages of it. Has Magneto ever even been a non-ass to anyone but Charles? He's completely bi-polar. And it's not just his powers. "Medical examination needed."

[$5 Milkshake]

Man this jant sidducked :mad:


I hate when jant's sidduck!

[KiplingKat]

Because he is an ass.

I read Rivka's psych profile of him. All 15 pages of it. Has Magneto ever even been a non-ass to anyone but Charles?

The New Mutants, Wanda after Avengers Disassembled, Lee Forrester, Magda, Anya, Rogue...

I can go on.

He's completely bi-polar. And it's not just his powers. "Medical examination needed."

But he does not have his powers here.

So the bi-polar thing isn't in play.

[frog]

I hate when jant's sidduck!

Translation?


Never mind, I'm probably better off not knowing.

[$5 Milkshake]

Rogue...



He was trying to score!

You cant count it when somebody's being nice in order to get some action.

[darknessatnoon]

The New Mutants, Wanda after Avengers Disassembled, Lee Forrester, Magda, Anya, Rogue...

I can go on.



But he does not have his powers here.

So the bi-polar thing isn't in play.

I am saying he's an ass above and beyond his powers, which Rivka's psych profile also said. At least, that was the gist. There was stuff in there about Nazi Gold, too.

And don't tell me being nice to Wanda after Disassembled means he's not an ass. That was sheer guilt at play, not genuine affection. BTW, I think Fraction and Bru actually like Magneto. That's another flaw with this issue, come to think of it.

[KiplingKat]

Brand continuity is all about marketing. Why else do you think we're reading a universe where Wolverine has a background with everyone that can be referenced?

You've clearly been listening to the points made differentiating the continuity within a narrative and the continuity within a brand.

Then you need to separate those discussion, because I can't talk about "brand continuity". I can talk about storytelling.

Charismatic relationship, not charismatic character. Charismatic relationships are one way ones as opposed to platonic and romantic, celebrities and even fictional characters are often the subject of these. Read up on it, it's interesting. Very relevant to you.

Ah, back to the "Yer just a crazy Magneto fanboy" argument. Yeah, that's really convincing.

I used to love Rogue. She was my favorite X-chick. She was strong, sassy, damaged, fun. Claremont's Rogue was kick ass.

And then Lobdell turned her into a co-dependent train wreck.

I can't stand the character now.

So what does that say about your "one way relationship".

And abuse it. But you miss the point - they're in this shared continuous universe where it's 'canon' and 'matters' and 'really happened'. He didn't sell those books on his writing skills, he sold those books because they came pre-packaged with fans of those icons.

Soooo..I canceled my subscription to Uncanny not because I was disappointed in the poor writing, but because I "fell out of love" with the characters?

How is that hating a character? Have you ever read about a villain? Ever?

A character doesn't need to be written as Mother Theresa in a helmet with the power to move the planet for a writer to enjoy writing them.

Have you ever heard John Byrne talk about Dr. Doom? People can love villains and still write them as villains. Magneto in Adjectiveless #'s 1-3 was clearly a villain, but Claremont wrote hm as an interesting, viable character too.

And given that Morrison "analysis" is ignorant, shallow, and irrational I'd say, Yeah, there was heavy bias in play.

[KiplingKat]

I am saying he's an ass above and beyond his powers, which Rivka's psych profile also said. At least, that was the gist. There was stuff in there about Nazi Gold, too.

And don't tell me being nice to Wanda after Disassembled means he's not an ass. That was sheer guilt at play, not genuine affection. BTW, I think Fraction and Bru actually like Magneto. That's another flaw with this issue, come to think of it.

Oh, he is an ass. But he also has been nice to many people, even when guilt was not in play, including the X-Men at points.

That's called "three dimensional characterization". Painting a character as something more than just a single character trait.

[bluedmighty]

I hate when jant's sidduck!

Wordbond my Damey :biggrin:

[nikbackm]

Yes, but it raises the three issues I mentioned earlier:

Why would they bother to distract the X-men to achieve a goal the X-men would support?

Why would Magneto use Sentinels to attack the X-Men? Using a machine that had killed 16 million people on Genosha would make the Sentinels analogous to Hitler in Magneto's eyes. Magneto isn't going to use Hitler to save mutants. He is going to destroy him on sight, which is what he should have done here if he was being written in character. Had Magneto swooped in, destroyed the Sentinels, and tried to kill the artist that would have been far more in character than using genocidal robots to attack a group of the few remaining mutants left.

Why did Magneto have to create such a convoluted distraction to begin with.

And why was he acting like such an ass during the entire episode?

I don't we can say that Magneto would not use Hitler to save mutants. Did he not interact with the Red Skull in Acts of Vengeance without killing him on the spot?

Sure he went after him afterwards when the story ended but while it was in progress he was somehow able to control himself. :smile:

[frog]

I'm hesitant to post this, so please let me make it clear that I don't mean to imply that anyone here has the condition I'm about to talk about. It's just something to consider about why some of us like what we do.

One of my brothers was autistic. He had the high-functioning autism known as Asperger's and he could write and sometimes converse so that you wouldn't be aware of it at all. However, it did severely impact his ability to communicate socially. Another aspect was that he did not like changes and that order was very important to him. If he had read comics I think that lapses in continuity and unexplained changes would have mattered a lot to him while it wouldn't bother others nearly as much.



If this post is offensive to anyone please let me know (politely) and I will edit it out.

[KiplingKat]

I don't we can say that Magneto would not use Hitler to save mutants. Did he not interact with the Red Skull in Acts of Vengeance without killing him on the spot?

Sure he went after him afterwards when the story ended but while it was in progress he was somehow able to control himself. :smile:

No, his entire purpose in joining Acts of Vengeance was to get close enough to the Red Skull to kill him. The only reason he waited a couple issues was to corner the Red Skull and find out if he was the same guy that operated during WWII. I think maybe at one point before hand they exchanged insults in the background, but that was it before Captain America #367.

Magneto never actually participated in Acts of Vengence. He just went after his daughter to recruit her (West Coast Avengers) and beat up, tortured and left the Red Skull to die slowly.

Like I said before, When the genocidal Xorn offered to give Magneto his powers back and save mutant kind, Magneto chose death instead.

The man has limits on what he will do to save mutant kind.

[nikbackm]

I used to be a big Cyke fan but at the moment I am SO bored of him. And Emma.

I really wouldn't mind not seeing them for a while. Not that that is going to happen.

I think that's why I liked Carey's X-men so much. It was a pretty fresh line-up.

I want more Nightcrawler and Dazzler.

I take it you are not reading any titles with a single main character? :smile:

As long as they are well written I would not have a problem with the same characters in all of the X-books.
Provided they use my favorites of course.

[KiplingKat]

I'm hesitant to post this, so please let me make it clear that I don't mean to imply that anyone here has the condition I'm about to talk about. It's just something to consider about why some of us like what we do.

One of my brothers was autistic. He had the high-functioning autism known as Asperger's and he could write and sometimes converse so that you wouldn't be aware of it at all. However, it did severely impact his ability to communicate socially. Another aspect was that he did not like changes and that order was very important to him. If he had read comics I think that lapses in continuity and unexplained changes would have mattered a lot to him while it wouldn't bother others nearly as much.

If this post is offensive to anyone please let me know (politely) and I will edit it out.

I don't have Aspergers.

My crazy is emotional, not mental.:wink:

And I don't think you can ascribe all the complaints about continuity to mental illness.

[nikbackm]

The New Mutants, Wanda after Avengers Disassembled, Lee Forrester, Magda, Anya, Rogue...

I can go on.



But he does not have his powers here.

So the bi-polar thing isn't in play.

Well, if you really want to blame his behaviour on the bi-polar thing you could just assume the suit generates the same effect, or even worse, that his powers did on his mental stability.

[nikbackm]

No, his entire purpose in joining Acts of Vengeance was to get close enough to the Red Skull to kill him. The only reason he waited a couple issues was to corner the Red Skull and find out if he was the same guy that operated during WWII. They were never shown interacting before Captain America #367.

Magneto never actually participated in Acts of Vengence. He just went after his daughter to recruit her (West Coast Avengers) and beat up, tortured and left the Red Skull to die slowly.

Like I said before, When the genocidal Xorn offered to give Magneto his powers back and save mutant kind, Magneto chose death instead.

The man has limits on what he will do to save mutant kind.

Ok, I did not remember exactly what Magneto's motivations in AoV where.

Btw, how was Xorn genocidal? He did not have anything to do with the destruction of Genosha did he?
Wiping out Alpha Flight should not qualify as genocide.

[KiplingKat]

Well, if you really want to blame his behaviour on the bi-polar thing you could just assume the suit generates the same effect, or even worse, that his powers did on his mental stability.

Because it does not work that way, in two ways actually.

When Magneto is powered, routing massive amounts of the earth EM sphere through his nervous system throws it out of whack, causing chemical imbalances in the brain.

With a suit, the power is routed through the suit, not his nervous system.

And this fight was actually a very "low power level" fight for Magneto. At reasonable levels, such as shown in this issue which was comparable to the period he was running with the X-men and quite sane, the chemical imbalances don't occur.

And he wasn't shown as acting insane before this in both Extremists and Legacy, so it couldn't be lasting damage from his powers.

[KiplingKat]

Ok, I did not remember exactly what Magneto's motivations in AoV where.

Btw, how was Xorn genocidal? He did not have anything to do with the destruction of Genosha did he?
Wiping out Alpha Flight should not qualify as genocide.

Xorn (in the guise of Magneto) herded 5.,000 people of New York in to crematoriums.

That is why everyone got so upset about Planet X. That's why Magneto's participation was retconned out so fast.

[darknessatnoon]

Because it does not work that way, in two ways actually.

When Magneto is powered, routing massive amounts of the earth EM sphere through his nervous system throws it out of whack, causing chemical imbalances in the brain.

With a suit, the power is routed through the suit, not his nervous system.

And this fight was actually a very "low power level" fight for Magneto. At reasonable levels, such as shown in this issue which was comparable to the period he was running with the X-men and quite sane, the chemical imbalances don't occur.

I'm sure that if cell phones can cause brain cancer, then Magneto's suit can make him nuts.

[KiplingKat]

I'm sure that if cell phones can cause brain cancer, then Magneto's suit can make him nuts.

In a day?

Why would the H.E. give him a suit like that?

[darknessatnoon]

In a day?

Why would the H.E. give him a suit like that?

I am sure that a suit! which can channel the earth's electromagnetic field to make impenetrable force bubbles is not good for one's health. H.E. put a warning sticker in the helmet that Magneto clearly disregarded. What do you want me to tell you?

[nikbackm]

Because it does not work that way, in two ways actually.

When Magneto is powered, routing massive amounts of the earth EM sphere through his nervous system throws it out of whack, causing chemical imbalances in the brain.

With a suit, the power is routed through the suit, not his nervous system.

And this fight was actually a very "low power level" fight for Magneto. At reasonable levels, such as shown in this issue which was comparable to the period he was running with the X-men and quite sane, the chemical imbalances don't occur.

And he wasn't shown as acting insane before this in both Extremists and Legacy, so it couldn't be lasting damage from his powers.

We don't really know how the suit works. It would make sense if it routed the power through his nervous system like his power did when he had it as that should make it easier for him to control it.

[nikbackm]

Xorn (in the guise of Magneto) herded 5.,000 people of New York in to crematoriums.

That is why everyone got so upset about Planet X. That's why Magneto's participation was retconned out so fast.

Did not the 5000 deaths come from his tearing parts of the city down?

As I understood the crematoriums were never taken into use. Since he got stopped before it could happen if for nothing else.

[KiplingKat]

I am sure that a suit! which can channel the earth's electromagnetic field to make impenetrable force bubbles is not good for one's health. H.E. put a warning sticker in the helmet that Magneto clearly disregarded. What do you want me to tell you?

Why would it be? People sit in MRI's without going mad.

Without his mutation, and Wanda erased it as if it had never been, Magneto is a normal guy. The chemical instability of his nervous system doesn't exist anymore.

So either the H.E. is not "all that and a bag of chips"...or it makes no sense.

Like the entire fight made no sense.

[KiplingKat]

Did not the 5000 deaths come from his tearing parts of the city down?

As I understood the crematoriums were never taken into use. Since he got stopped before it could happen if for nothing else.

He got the process rolling before the X-men could step in.

[darknessatnoon]

Did not the 5000 deaths come from his tearing parts of the city down?

As I understood the crematoriums were never taken into use. Since he got stopped before it could happen if for nothing else.

I think he was using them. Nick Fury mentioned it later. But Magneto would have done it anyway, even if Xorn were uninvolved. Mags has a history of drug use, and his nervous system creates excess endorphins which make him prone to abusing meds.

Esme said that Magneto had written an article claiming that humans don't feel pain. The author of that article was certainly not Xorn, since he really didn't have time to be publishing anything.

[jmc247]

Without his mutation, and Wanda erased it as if it had never been, Magneto is a normal guy. The chemical instability of his nervous system doesn't exist anymore.

So either the H.E. is not "all that and a bag of chips"...or it makes no sense.


Unless the writers think he is normally-genetically bipolar.

[KiplingKat]

I think he was using them. Nick Fury mentioned it later. But Magneto would have done it anyway, even if Xorn were uninvolved. Mags has a history of drug use, and his nervous system creates excess endorphins which make him prone to abusing meds.

Esme said that Magneto had written an article claiming that humans don't feel pain. The author of that article certainly not Xorn, since he really didn't have time to be publishing anything.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

He's a Morrison fan who can't deal.

Magneto has no history of drug use, nor had he ever been genocidal prior to Morrison's writing him. Even when he was in control of entire countries, he has never enacted programs of Genocide.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/analysis/genocide-or-acts-of-war-magnetos-brand-of-terrorism.php

[KiplingKat]

Unless the writers think he is normally-genetically bipolar.

Convenient time for it to hit, don't you think? :wink:

[Flâneur]

Why would it be? People sit in MRI's without going mad.

Without his mutation, and Wanda erased it as if it had never been, Magneto is a normal guy. The chemical instability of his nervous system doesn't exist anymore.

So either the H.E. is not "all that and a bag of chips"...or it makes no sense.

Like the entire fight made no sense.
And you can't have too many MRI's in a short period of time without receiving damage. Also, MRI's don't go on forever in my personal experience. They're not exactly what you see on House, you know.

And I'd think being insane for all of those years would've thrown him for a loop, making him a bit off even after the chemical balance is removed. Old habits die hard.

[KiplingKat]

And you can't have too many MRI's in a short period of time without receiving damage. Also, MRI's don't go on forever in my personal experience. They're not exactly what you see on House, you know.

And I'd think being insane for all of those years would've thrown him for a loop, making him a bit off even after the chemical balance is removed. Old habits die hard.

But Wanda removed his X-Gene. Remade him as a complete human. It isn't merely a matter of the chemical imbalance being removed. It's as if it never was.

And as I pointed out, Magneto showed no signs of madness in New Avengers #20, the Extremists arc, or X-Men: Legacy.

[darknessatnoon]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

He's a Morrison fan who can't deal.

Magneto has no history of drug use, nor had he ever been genocidal prior to Morrison's writing him. Even when he was in control of entire countries, he has never enacted programs of Genocide.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/analysis/genocide-or-acts-of-war-magnetos-brand-of-terrorism.php

from Rivka's medical analysis which you cited as an authority yesterday.



Other Substance Dependence -- PROVISIONAL
Again, Magneto's powers may be causing his brain to produce elevated levels of the neurotransmitter Endorphin, which is a pain suppressor. Between the time that Magneto left Israel, and Isabelle's murder, Magneto was subject to excruciating headaches every time he overused his magnetic powers. It is theorized that Magneto's brain began to compensate for this pain, by producing endogenous Endorphins, or some unknown, similar neurotransmitter, in ever increasing amounts. This served to cause his nerve cells to create new receptor sites for the Endorphin, which meant he needed to use his powers more and more, to stimulate the production of more and more Endorphin, to give him relief from his body's physiological reaction to the overuse of his powers, which is pain. Magneto also might experience increased self-confidence, and a feeling of well-being, with a lessening of his PTSD symptoms when this occurs, due to the increase in Endorphin levels.

[Deus ex Chris]

But Wanda removed his X-Gene. Remade him as a complete human. It isn't merely a matter of the chemical imbalance being removed. It's as if it never was.

And as I pointed out, Magneto showed no signs of madness in New Avengers #20, the Extremists arc, or X-Men: Legacy.
He showed no signs of madness here. He was outraged. He was driven. He wasn't crazy.

[Swashbuckler]

But Wanda removed his X-Gene. Remade him as a complete human. It isn't merely a matter of the chemical imbalance being removed. It's as if it never was.

And as I pointed out, Magneto showed no signs of madness in New Avengers #20, the Extremists arc, or X-Men: Legacy.

Could bi-polarism be his secondary mutation?

[KiplingKat]

from Rivka's medical analysis which you cited as an authority yesterday.

..and that has what to do with M-Day and the price of tea in China?

He doesn't have his powers anymore.

And for the forth time, he showed no signs of madness leading up to this issue. The Magneto who appeared in X-men Legacy was quite rational.

[darknessatnoon]

..and that has what to do with M-Day and the price of tea in China?

He doesn't have his powers anymore.

And for the forth time, he showed no signs of madness leading up to this issue. The Magneto who appeared in X-men Legacy was quite rational.

He's a drug addict. You denied this. But his powers made him dependent on doses of pleasure. The Scarlet Witch didn't say "no more drug addicts."

[Flâneur]

But Wanda removed his X-Gene. Remade him as a complete human. It isn't merely a matter of the chemical imbalance being removed. It's as if it never was.

And as I pointed out, Magneto showed no signs of madness in New Avengers #20, the Extremists arc, or X-Men: Legacy.
She removed his mutation - she didn't remove his life.

And an insane man put into his old fetish gear which hooks electromagnetic energy through his nervous system isn't going to do well. No matter how you cut it or how poorly you understand what that kind of energy could do to your brain.
I like cock.
Let's fuck.

The mad house is rife with sexual abuse so we'd just be adding to continuity.:wink:

[KiplingKat]

He's a drug addict. You denied this. But his powers made him dependent on doses of pleasure. The Scarlet Witch didn't say "no more drug addicts."

A. He's never used drug on panel.

B. If he doesn't have his powers, how does he raise his endorphin levels to go crazy?

Jogging?

[darknessatnoon]

A. He's never used drug on panel.

B. If he doesn't have his powers, how does he raise his endorphin levels to go crazy?

Jogging?

Apparently, he is now using his suit.

[Swashbuckler]

Apparently, he is now using his suit.

Have we ruled out the possibility of H.E. wanting Magneto to go crazy? SO he's easier to manipulate and control for his own purposes of wanting to be a savior of mutant? I mean, H.E. could have a plan where the suit is making Magneto crazy, and he is deliberatly making his partner in crime go nuts!

[KiplingKat]

She removed his mutation - she didn't remove his life.

And an insane man put into his old fetish gear which hooks electromagnetic energy through his nervous system isn't going to do well. No matter how you cut it or how poorly you understand what that kind of energy could do to your brain.

You guys try so hard to rationalize this, but it doesn't work.

For one thing, there is no evidence that it routed the EM energy through his nervous system.

Secondly, the radiation put out by cell phones is not straight EM energy. It's microwaves.

Without his powers, the madness does not get kicked off. When he is running on "low" as shown during his Reformation period and Excalibur Vol. 3 (which is comparable to the power levels he has shown in this issue), he's rational. Magneto is a severely emotionally damaged person, but without his powers, he is not insane.

He showed no signs of madness in Extremists and Legacy, there was nothing leading up to this episode.

[darknessatnoon]

He showed no signs of madness in Extremists and Legacy, there was nothing leading up to this episode.

Rivka refers to these moments of "clarity" on Magneto's part as "Interepisode Recovery (http://www.alara.net/opeople/xbooks/magnuts.html)."

[KiplingKat]

Apparently, he is now using his suit.

The suit doesn't rout power through his nervous system, which is now completely normal. Without the X-gene causing his mutation, he has the nervous system of a normal human being.

No chemical imbalances to be had.

[KiplingKat]

Have we ruled out the possibility of H.E. wanting Magneto to go crazy? SO he's easier to manipulate and control for his own purposes of wanting to be a savior of mutant? I mean, H.E. could have a plan where the suit is making Magneto crazy, and he is deliberatly making his partner in crime go nuts!

Have you seen Magneto in one of his manic episodes?

He is not controllable.And in fact trying to control him pisses him off even more.

As Pietro well learned.

[Deus ex Chris]

He showed no signs of madness in Extremists and Legacy, there was nothing leading up to this episode.
It wasn't an episode. Perhaps you should read it again.

[Swashbuckler]

I just think Magneto was following orders really. He wasn't going insane, just pretending to be a little old school to distract the X-Men. He was doing what his master told him to do.

[KiplingKat]

I just think Magneto was following orders really. He wasn't going insane, just pretending to be a little old school to distract the X-Men. He was doing what his master told him to do.

Why.

Even if he wanted to "distract the X-Men" (which still doesn't make any sense), and he had to distract the X-men by sending genocidal robots that wiped out Genosha after them (which makes even less sense), why did he have to behave like such an ass?

Either he was crazy, which doesn't make sense...or his behavior doesn't make sense.

This was about writing an homage to the old days of the X-men. An Old Timey Magneto & Sentinels vs. X-Men fight, and Bruction ignored character continuity and just plain common sense in order to make it happen.

[nikbackm]

I just think Magneto was following orders really. He wasn't going insane, just pretending to be a little old school to distract the X-Men. He was doing what his master told him to do.

I don't think anyone really believes he was crazy in the issue, just acting a bit.

But it is an option that can be used to explain the episode in the future if some writer wants to.

[Swashbuckler]

Why.

Even if he wanted to "distract the X-Men" (which still doesn't make any sense), and he had to distract the X-men by sending genocidal robots that wiped out Genosha after them (which makes even less sense), why did he have to behave like such an ass?

This was about writing an homage to the old days of the X-men. An Old Timey Magneto & Sentinels vs. X-Men fight, and Bruction ignored character continuity and just plain common sense in order to make it happen.

Perfect, I like this explanation. and the issue! magneto acted a fool and un-characterisitcally. He had a bad day clearly and lost it. That Starbucks chick didn't hear him say Grande!

[Deus ex Chris]

Why.

Even if he wanted to "distract the X-Men" (which still doesn't make any sense), and he had to distract the X-men by sending genocidal robots that wiped out Genosha after them (which makes even less sense), why did he have to behave like such an ass?

Either he was crazy, which doesn't make sense...or his behavior doesn't make sense.

This was about writing an homage to the old days of the X-men. An Old Timey Magneto & Sentinels vs. X-Men fight, and Bruction ignored character continuity and just plain common sense in order to make it happen.
He was outraged by the Sentinel display. That's why he was an ass. He wanted to destroy the Sentinels, and he needed to distract the X-Men. He decided to kill two birds with one stone. Honestly, I fail to see why that's so difficult to grasp.

[worstblogever]

..and that has what to do with M-Day and the price of tea in China?

He doesn't have his powers anymore.

And for the forth time, he showed no signs of madness leading up to this issue. The Magneto who appeared in X-men Legacy was quite rational.

So maybe that suit, and the sudden return to ANY powers made him go megalomaniacal loopy?

He has shown that before, like when he was amped by Fabian Cortez, in continuity, of course.

By the way... it's been 3 days and 70 pages... ARE YOU STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS? :redface:

[tetragene]

lol, wow this is still going on? All this discourse over ONE issue? ONE issue meant to lead into further stories? ONE issue where you obviously weren't going to get a complete answer for everything going on as--shock! horror! surprise!--they're trying to lead into future stories to get you to continue buying the series?

Good God, this is madness! :eek: :confused:

seriously--I still can't get over it. No one's allowed even one arc to be completed--but ONE ISSUE? Magneto wasn't even portrayed as a human-killing, insane in the membrane geezer--but ONE ISSUE of him purposefully being "villainy" to distract them (as revealed on panel--in the very issue) cause this much crap? Really?

Steven--you had me at Tangerine, you lost me at Jubilee :frown:

[KiplingKat]

He was outraged by the Sentinel display. That's why he was an ass. He wanted to destroy the Sentinels, and he needed to distract the X-Men. He decided to kill two birds with one stone. Honestly, I fail to see why that's so difficult to grasp.

Because it isn't in his character. He refused to use Xorn to get his powers back ad save mutant kind...and now he's going to use the robots that killed 16 million people to attack a group of the few remaining mutants...when he doesn't even have to?

Here is how that fight should have played out to be in character: Magneto hears about the exhibit. He swoops in, destroys the Sentinels, goes after the artist to kill him, and the X-Men stop him.

Apparently he didn't need them, according to him the suit made him more powerful than he ever had been before. So why bother using a "tribute to genocide" to injure or kill more mutants when you can just destroy them and beat up on the mutants yourself?

[KiplingKat]

So maybe that suit, and the sudden return to ANY powers made him go megalomaniacal loopy?

He has shown that before, like when he was amped by Fabian Cortez, in continuity, of course.

Because he was still a mutant when he was amped by Fabian. His powers had burned out, but he still had them. That why he could tap into Lorna magnetic abilities. His physiology was still the same.

He isn't a mutant anymore. Wanda erased that. He's a normal human being. His power was housed in his nervous system and without that altering his nervous system's structure and chemistry, there are no chemical imbalances to be had.

By the way... it's been 3 days and 70 pages... ARE YOU STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS?

Because people keep arguing with me.

I didn't even bring him up this time.

[Swashbuckler]

Because it isn't in his character. He refused to use Xorn to get his powers back ad save mutant kind...and now he's going to use the robots that killed 16 million people to attack a group of the few remaining mutants...when he doesn't even have to?

Here is how that fight should have played out to be in character: Magneto hears about the exhibit. He swoops in, destroys the Sentinels, goes after the artist to kill him, and the X-Men stop him.

Apparently he didn't need them, according to him the suit made him more powerful than he ever had been before. So why bother using a "tribute to genocide" to injure or kill more mutants when you can just destroy them and beat up on the mutants yourself?

Dude, he just made an irrational out of character move. People do things like that all the time. It's humanity and emotion. It shows he's human and not perfect. Saying it's out of character is stupid because people break character all the time. People who don't are composed and boring and repetative. He's doing something different. He's turning a new leaf. Cyclops did. He felt he needed to as well.

[Flâneur]

You guys try so hard to rationalize this, but it doesn't work.

For one thing, there is no evidence that it routed the EM energy through his nervous system.

Secondly, the radiation put out by cell phones is not straight EM energy. It's microwaves.

Without his powers, the madness does not get kicked off. When he is running on "low" as shown during his Reformation period and Excalibur Vol. 3 (which is comparable to the power levels he has shown in this issue), he's rational. Magneto is a severely emotionally damaged person, but without his powers, he is not insane.

He showed no signs of madness in Extremists and Legacy, there was nothing leading up to this episode.
When did I mention mobile phones? He also was not wearing his costume during Extremists and Legacy. Many stories have been told of heroes and villains who develop fixations upon this gear and Magneto himself has been shown on panel to do this during Planet X with the Xorn and Magneto helmets.

His suit also presumably generates the exact same energy which drove him insane previously and he wears it even outside combat as we were shown in the issue. He's an emotionally damaged person with a history of insanity who has just put himself back in fetish gear. Fetish gear which incidentally generates the exact same kind of energy which drove him insane in the first place.
The suit doesn't rout power through his nervous system, which is now completely normal. Without the X-gene causing his mutation, he has the nervous system of a normal human being.

No chemical imbalances to be had.
It doesn't? I didn't see him giving vocal commands and pressing buttons. How else is his suit responding to his wishes?

Infidel bastards!
Hello Anna. How has your priesthood been going? All the confessions, penance and kneeling been running along smoothly, I hope?

[worstblogever]

Because he was still a mutant when he was amped by Fabian. His powers had burned out, but he still had them. His physiology was still the same.

He isn't a mutant anymore. Wanda erased that. He's a normal human being. His power has houses in his nervous system and with that altering his nervous system's structure and chemistry, there are no chemical imbalances to be had.


The source of power is irrelevant. It's his reaction to it that seems to be the common denominator. Power, as it has been renowned to do, corrupts, as well as the reaction to those who might envy you, or seek to destroy you for having it.

Especially Magneto. 40+ years of continuity has more than demonstrated that.

Because people keep arguing with me.

I didn't even bring him up this time.

I see. The "he started it". Defense. Makes perfect sense.

[KiplingKat]

Dude, he just made an irrational out of character move. People do things like that all the time. It's humanity and emotion. It shows he's human and not perfect. Saying it's out of character is stupid because people break character all the time. People who don't are composed and boring and repetative. He's doing something different. He's turning a new leaf. Cyclops did. He felt he needed to as well.

So if Wolverine breaks out a tutu and starts dancing Swan Lake, you'll be fine with that?

Magneto is irrational, but it is STILL out of character for him to use the robots that wiped out Genosha to go after a group of the few reaming mutants left. It goes against EVERYTHING he stands for.

I may have irrational moments, but I am not going to run out and get involved in a race riot and murder small animals, because it goes against everything I stand for.

[DeadXMan]

When did I mention mobile phones? He also was not wearing his costume during Extremists and Legacy. Many stories have been told of heroes and villains who develop fixations upon this gear and Magneto himself has been shown on panel to do this during Planet X with the Xorn and Magneto helmets.

His suit also presumably generates the exact same energy which drove him insane previously and he wears it even outside combat as we were shown in the issue. He's an emotionally damaged person with a history of insanity who has just put himself back in fetish gear. Fetish gear which incidentally generates the exact same kind of energy which drove him insane in the first place.

It doesn't? I didn't see him giving vocal commands and pressing buttons. How else is his suit responding to his wishes?

Hello Anna. How has your priesthood been going? All the confessions, penance and kneeling been running along smoothly, I hope?


that head gear he had under the helmet.

[darknessatnoon]

that head gear he had under the helmet.

And how exactly does that work? Does Magneto twitch his earlobes to create force-bubbles?

[Swashbuckler]

So if Wolverine breaks out a tutu and starts dancing Swan Lake, you'll be fine with that?

Magneto is irrational, but it is STILL out of character for him to use the robots that wiped out Genosha to go after a group of the few reaming mutants left. It goes against EVERYTHING he stands for.

I may have irrational moments, but I am not going to run out and get involved in a race riot and murder small animals, because it goes against everything I stand for.

So now he is irrational? And willing to attack, but just not with the sentinels. Well, perhaps he saw it as a means to show the X-Men what he went through on Genosha. Perhaps a part of him knew what he was doing was wrong, so he played the part of villain, including using the Sentinels to enduce extra rage in the X-Men. Perhaps he used them so they'd be destroyed by the X-Men. He wanted them destroyed clearly.

[KiplingKat]

The source of power is irrelevant. It's his reaction to it that seems to be the common denominator. Power, as it has been renowned to do, corrupts, as well as the reaction to those who might envy you, or seek to destroy you for having it.

There is NOTHING TO AFFECT!!!

Don't you people get it? His nervous system is FINE! Wanda fixed it by removing his powers. Without his powers, his has a normal human nervous system.

No neruo-chemical instability to be set off balance.

Especially Magneto. 40+ years of continuity has more than demonstrated that.

Yeah, well show me the last time Magneto has his power erased, his entire body reverted into baseline human, and he acted that way and I'll believe you.

I see. The "he started it". Defense. Makes perfect sense.

Well, if you are going to engage in childish "Why are you still talking about this?" personal attacks...the repsonse fit the question.

[Swashbuckler]

There is NOTHING TO AFFECT!!!

Don't you people get it? His nervous system is FINE! Wanda fixed it by removing his powers. Without his powers, his has a normal human nervous system.

No neruo-chemical instability to be set off balance.



Yeah, well show me the last time Magneto has his power erased, his entire body reverted into baseline human, and he acted that way and I'll believe you.



Well, if you are going to engage in childish "Why are you still talking about this?" personal attacks...the repsonse fit the question.

I don't think WBE was talking about his nervous system was he? It seemed to me he was just stating that power corrupts. And someone who suddenly had power again, even a normal human, could feel overly powerful and revengful against the X-Men. I think that's what he was saying at least.

[KiplingKat]

So now he is irrational? And willing to attack, but just not with the sentinels. Well, perhaps he saw it as a means to show the X-Men what he went through on Genosha. Perhaps a part of him knew what he was doing was wrong, so he played the part of villain, including using the Sentinels to enduce extra rage in the X-Men. Perhaps he used them so they'd be destroyed by the X-Men. He wanted them destroyed clearly.

Yes, but that is not the way he would go about it.

This is guy who has made a point of killing most of the Nazis that have crossed his path, and going out of his way to do so sometimes, and he is suddenly going to be forgiving of Sentinels, only a couple years after they wiped out 16 million of his people?

Using the Sentinels to attack a group of few remaining mutant left would be abhorrent to him.

And if he was trying to show the X-men what he had been through, he would have said so. Magneto is not exactly known for his subtlety.

[Flâneur]

There is NOTHING TO AFFECT!!!

Don't you people get it? His nervous system is FINE! Wanda fixed it by removing his powers. Without his powers, his has a normal human nervous system.

No neruo-chemical instability to be set off balance.
His X-gene was removed. Wanda didn't heal his nervous system from all the things which have already happened to it nor did she fix his emotional trauma.

Well, if you are going to engage in childish "Why are you still talking about this?" personal attacks...the repsonse fit the question.
So ... you admit to behaving childishly?

[KiplingKat]

[QUOTE=Swashbuckler;7253063]I don't think WBE was talking about his nervous system was he? It seemed to me he was just stating that power corrupts. And someone who suddenly had power again, even a normal human, could feel overly powerful and revengful against the X-Men. I think that's what he was saying at least.[/QUOTe}

Why would Magneto feel revengeful against the X-Men to the point it would override the abhorrence of robots that wiped out 16 million mutants?

[darknessatnoon]

Magneto using Sentinels = Irony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony).

Do you have some "issue" with the concept of Irony?

[DeadXMan]

:confused: And how exactly does that work? Does Magneto twitch his earlobes to create force-bubbles?

It's a neural interface of some sort HE pulled out of his arse. The guy just recreated the Kree race, this is child's play to him.

[KiplingKat]

His X-gene was removed. Wanda didn't heal his nervous system from all the things which have already happened to it nor did she fix his emotional trauma.

If she did not change his nervous system to that of a normal human, Magneto would still have his powers.

Without his powers, he does not go grandstanding crazy.

Magneto had emotional trauma most of his life. If he was suffering from emotional trauma to the point it would drive him to behave as we saw in this issue, we would have seen it in issue leading up to this. We didn't.

[Flâneur]

Magneto using Sentinels = Irony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony).

Do you have some "issue" with the concept of Irony?

And it even has the word 'iron' within it! See! It's an homage, Kipling! Bru and Fraction are talented like that.

[Yoshi]

"I am no hero. Merely a man who has seen and done and endured what can never be forgotten or forgiven." ~ Uncanny X-Men #196

http://www.magnetowasright.com/

(Yes, I'm crazy )

And this is showing... BIG TIME.

[KiplingKat]

Magneto using Sentinels = Irony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony).

Do you have some "issue" with the concept of Irony?

I think I have made it clear I have issues with character continuity.

[DeadXMan]

Not to mention Scott just pisses him off to no end.

[worstblogever]

There is NOTHING TO AFFECT!!!

Don't you people get it? His nervous system is FINE! Wanda fixed it by removing his powers. Without his powers, his has a normal human nervous system.

No neruo-chemical instability to be set off balance.



So, Magneto got a shrink and a cat scan to prove Wanda fixed his brain? Could you reference the issue # where he's given a clean bill of mental health?

No, you can't. Because he doesn't have it. And the funny thing about mental illness, is there are sometimes triggers than cause it to flare up.

Like say, being handed the power of a demi-god. Which, he does go loopy when he gets it.

Yeah, well show me the last time Magneto has his power erased, his entire body reverted into baseline human, and he acted that way and I'll believe you.

Oh, I dunno. Maybe howzabout Uncanny X-Men #275 when he has his powers taken by Brainchild and put into Zaladane. Then, the minute he gets them back... with Zaladane's powers added to his own (therefore he's amped up), he decides he's not Mr. Nice Guy anymore, perforates her (when she's helpless and depowered) full of metal spikes, then tells Rogue and Nick Fury he's going to go off and forms the Acolytes, who practically deify him, and add to his megalomania until it's at the level of "borderline god-complex".

Is there any other question you have that can help me prove you wrong? :redface:
[/QUOTE].

[Flâneur]

If she did not change his nervous system to that of a normal human, Magneto would still have his powers.

Without his powers, he does not go grandstanding crazy.

Magneto had emotional trauma most of his life. If he was suffering from emotional trauma to the point it would drive him to behave as we saw in this issue, we would have seen it in issue leading up to this. We didn't.

You forget
he has a SUIT
with purple frills
it is enough to make a traumatised drug-addict with a suit fixation to go insanneeee

And no. Nervous systems are intact. They're all exactly the same except for no X-gene. It's continuity!

[KiplingKat]

Not to mention Scott just pisses him off to no end.

They piss each other off. And Mags ranting about Scott being a crappy leader was in character (though the dialog...ugh!), but the whole package...the situation, the behavior being off from what he have seen from him in the very recent past, the fight itself...

Just doesn't work.

[DeadXMan]

were do you get Mag's drug use from?

[DeadXMan]

They piss each other off. And Mags ranting about Scott being a crappy leader was in character (though the dialog...ugh!), but the whole package...the situation, the behavior being off from what he have seen from him in the very recent past, the fight itself...

Just doesn't work.

Scot is a crappy leader. Chuck had to bail them out almost every issue. Hell, Giant size #1 was Chuck bailing out the Scott again

[darknessatnoon]

I think I have made it clear I have issues with character continuity.

OK. Well, let me explain.

The X-Men, being Liberal Conformist Scoundrels (they say one thing but do another -- typical of their ideology), are outraged by an art exhibit by Sentinels.

Magneto, outraged that anyone could tolerate genocide chiq, decides to shove the X-Men's "hypocrisy" down their throat.

In making his "point," Magneto both collaborates with the Sentinel "concept" and makes his own commentary about it. The X-Men do not "get" Magneto's meta-commentary. Thus, the tragedy that is Magneto's political status is reinforced.

All in all, I think the writers credited him with too much intelligence.

[KiplingKat]

So, Magneto got a shrink and a cat scan to prove Wanda fixed his brain? Could you reference the issue # where he's given a clean bill of mental health?

Can you show me where Magneto still has his powers?

No, you can't. Because he doesn't have it. And the funny thing about mental illness, is there are sometimes triggers than cause it to flare up.

It was a physiological ailment. Not an emotional disorder. By removing his powers, Wanda HAD to fix his nervous system by making him a baseline human.

Oh, I dunno. Maybe howzabout Uncanny X-Men #275 when he has his powers taken by Brainchild and put into Zaladane. Then, the minute he gets them back... with Zaladane's powers added to his own (therefore he's amped up), he decides he's not Mr. Nice Guy anymore, perforates her (when she's helpless and depowered) full of metal spikes, then tells Rogue and Nick Fury he's going to go off and forms the Acolytes, who practically deify him, and add to his megalomania until it's at the level of "borderline god-complex".

Again, his powers were taken. He did not cease to be a mutant. It did not alter his nervous system.

M-Day made him a baseline human. The only time that has happened before is when the High Evolutionary removed the powers of mutant all over the word. And he didn't act looney

Is there any other question you have that can help me prove you wrong? :redface:

No, but you can keep digging a hole for yourself if you want.

[KiplingKat]

OK. Well, let me explain.

The X-Men, being Liberal Conformist Scoundrels (they say one thing but do another -- typical of their ideology), are outraged by an art exhibit by Sentinels.

Magneto, outraged that anyone could tolerate genocide chiq, decides to shove the X-Men's "hypocrisy" down their throat.

In making his "point," Magneto both collaborates with the Sentinel "concept" and makes his own commentary about it. The X-Men do not "get" Magneto's meta-commentary. Thus, the tragedy that is Magneto's political status is reinforced.

All in all, I think the writers credited him with too much intelligence.

And thank you for making my point.

Magneto would not do that. The would destroy the Sentinels and try to beat up the artists, if not kill him outright.

[darknessatnoon]

And thank you for making my point.



Are you trying to employ "irony?"

[KiplingKat]

Scot is a crappy leader. Chuck had to bail them out almost every issue. Hell, Giant size #1 was Chuck bailing out the Scott again

And Messiah CompleX.

It kind of sad, because Whedon finally got Scott to the level he should have been at for years...and then it all got torn down again.

[tetragene]

And thank you for making my point.

Magneto would not do that. The would destroy the Sentinels and try to beat up the artists, if not kill him outright.

well the "artist" was later found very much dead, and the Sentinels were destroyed and they did distract the X-men, so...

[KiplingKat]

well the "artist" was later found very much dead, and the Sentinels were destroyed and they did distract the X-men, so...

Doesn't scan. It's not his style.

(Especially IF, as Logan seems to think, Magneto set the entire exhibition up to begin with.)

[KiplingKat]

Are you trying to employ "irony?"

No, I'm not actually. Magneto may be a genius, but when it comes to his actions, he often doesn't think things through.

I mean, look at Fatal Attractions. He comes down to offer the X-Men a place to stay on Avalon...in the most obnoxious manner possible, killing an Acolyte in front of them. Yeah, that's a real good advertisement.

Heck, as viscerally enjoyable as it was to read, when he went after Dani's would be rapists, he exposed the school to being discovered and his own arrest. Don't you think those guys when they called the cops said, "We were attacked by Magneto, and he talked about this chick we ...er..tried to hit on earlier in the evening. We think she's a student at this school..."

It was really chivalrous of him, but it was also really, really dumb.

[worstblogever]

Can you show me where Magneto still has his powers?

It was a physiological ailment. Not an emotional disorder. By removing his powers, Wanda HAD to fix his nervous system by making him a baseline human.

Again, his powers were taken. He did not cease to be a mutant. It did not alter his nervous system.

M-Day made him a baseline human. The only time that has happened before is when the High Evolutionary removed the powers of mutant all over the word. And he didn't act looney


And again, there's nothing that's ever been said to indicate Magneto's less than normal psyche was due to his X-gene. There were crazy mutants who did lose their X-gene, and they stayed whacked in the head (Phantazia, Shriek, and Hannah Levy come to mind, to name but a few... but let's say PIETRO just to stay in Magnus' genepool.) Wanda didn't fix anyone's mind that day, herself included. And there's nothing been written that you can reference to back that sad little claim up, except based on how he seemed a little better in his appearances since.

You know, the ones where he fled federal custody after being told by Xorn and the Collective he had to save all mutants. Or the time Masque was trying to deify him and make him a Messiah and performed terrorist acts until he went into the sewers of N.Y. to find out what was going on, and Skids gave him a whole book full of prophecies he couldn't avoid. Oh, and then when he saw his best friend shot in the head, and had to defend his comatose form one one of his most loyal followers by sending a medical laser into her eye to pierce her brain.

Nothing that wouldn't start making him have some chance of a relapse into a mental breakdown in any of those events. Not stressful at all. And his reactions to them, by diving right in, and nearly committing homicide on that third one... that was the most sane reaction. Clearly.

He's sometimes kooky. Get over it.

[darknessatnoon]

Heck, as viscerally enjoyable as it was to read, when he went after Dani would be rapists, he exposed the school to being discovered. Don't you think those guy when they called it in said, "We were attacked by magneto, and he talked about this chick we ...er..tried to hit on earlier in the evening. We think she's a student at this school..."

It was really dumb of him.

No it wasn't. You are not a good fan to question him like that. Do you think I go around questioning Sage's decision to go undercover and spy on Albion?

Magneto can control the iron in their blood flow. He can use that to make people suggestible, or to control their minds. Read between the lines. He instructed them not to ever call the police.

[KiplingKat]

And again, there's nothing that's ever been said to indicate Magneto's less than normal psyche was due to his X-gene.

Other than X-men Vol. 2 #2, Classic X-Men #19, and Excalibur Vol. 3 #2.

Oh, and X-Men Unlimited #2.

Thanks for playing!

And appeals to popular opinion is another argumentative fallacy.

Buh-bye now.

[KiplingKat]

No it wasn't. You are not a good fan to question him like that. Do you think I go around questioning Sage's decision to go undercover and spy on Albion?

Magneto can control the iron in their blood flow. He can use that to make people suggestible, or to control their minds. Read between the lines. He instructed them not to ever call the police.

No he didn't. New Mutants #35, as soon as he left the house they picked up the phone to the cops to turn themselves in. (Speaking of not thinking things through Mr. Claremont.)

[worstblogever]

Other than X-men Vol. 2 #2, Classic X-Men #19, and Excalibur Vol. 3 #2.

Oh, and X-Men Unlimited #2.

Thanks for playing!

And appeals to popular opinion is another argumentative fallacy.

Buh-bye now.

All of those issues, it's said it's his power, not his genetic makeup.

I mean, we're not talking chicken or the egg, here, holmes. Mactaggart said it was a possible cause. Not definitively. And obviously, whatever she tinkered with... wasn't the problem.

So, if they just made him obsessed with power...

[DeadXMan]

Xmen #2 stated he couldn't be mind controled for long due to his powers reseting his nuaral pathway

[darknessatnoon]

No he didn't. New Mutants #35, as soon as he left the house they picked up the phone to the cops to turn themselves in. (Speaking of not thinking things through Mr. Claremont.)

They did as CC... I mean, Magneto... instructed.

Xmen #2 stated he couldn't be mind controled for long due to his powers reseting his nuaral pathway

What?

[KiplingKat]

All of those issues, it's said it's his power, not his genetic makeup.

I mean, we're not talking chicken or the egg, here, holmes.

Here, I'll quote for you.

In order to explain Magneto's widely varied characterization over the years, in X-Men (Vol. 2) #2, Chris Claremont proposed an ingenious theory: That Magneto was suffering from a kind of power-induced bi-polar disorder.

While Magneto was under Dr. Moira MacTaggart’s care as an infant, she made a discovery.

Moira: “There were indications of an instability in your nervous system, as though yuir body could’na quite handle the the energies you were processing through it. Akin to a power line unable t’cope wi’ loads beyond its design capabilities. There was a possibility of progressive degradation that could in turn affect the electrochemical balance of your brain.”

Magnus: “What, with great power comes certain madness?” ~ X-Men (Vol. 2) #2

Xavier would comment on that theory later in Excalibur Vol. 3, #2:

Magnus: “Just…just a headache. Nature’s reminder to me to keep my temper. Also an excellent incentive not to use my powers.”

Charles: “You’ve been prone to headaches ever since I can remember.”

Magnus: “Ever since I can remember too. Or at least ever since my power became active.”

Charles: “Moira MacTaggart and I discussed that often. It was something she worked on while you were in her case. She had a theory…”

Magnus “Don’t go there Charles. I know you loved the woman, but my memories those days and the good late Doctor are not fond.”

Charles: “It’s just how can you wield the energies you do, on the scale that you do, without equivalent cost to the body?”

Magnus: “You’d think nature would have taken that into consideration when she designed us.”

Charles: “Unless we truly are an evolutionary work in progress.”

Magnus: “Homo sapiens not-quite superior? That’s a bit cruel, even for her.”

We also see these debilitating headaches in the add on story to Classic X-Men #19, which takes place in the period between Magnus and Charles' time in Israel, and Magneto's appearance at Cape Citadel. Even Magnus started to make the connection.

“Never been so bad. These seizures strike now whenever I use my powers. More extreme the usage, the more debilitating the attack. I wonder am I pushing myself too hard? Trying to run, before I have learned to crawl?”

Yet, we have seen Magneto wield electromagnetic power on a near planetary scales. Shortly after Magnus and Charles conversation in Excalibur Vol. 3, Magneto creates a traversable wormhole without effort. At some point, the endorphins in his system must kick in to counteract the headaches, allowing Magneto to access and wield great amounts of power. This sends the chemistry of his nervous system out of whack, which leads to the moments of megalomania so commonly associated with the character. At the same time, it also explains the Reformation Period and Excalibur Vol. 3. during both of which Magneto was running on “low”, not wielding the vast amounts of power so typical for the character, and was acting relatively normal. The more power he slings around, the crazier he is.

Then there is the two page pic of the medical scan in X-Men Unlimited #2, which proves his power was rooted in his nervous system, which would have to be altered to baseline human, ie. normal and healthy, in order for his powers to be removed.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/gallery.php?album=Really%20Out%20of%20Costume/&pic=X-Men%20Unlimited%202.jpg

[KiplingKat]

Xmen #2 stated he couldn't be mind controled for long due to his powers reseting his nuaral pathway

Actually, that was applied to what Moira had done to him. He accused Moira of genetically altering his make up and taking away his ability to chose. That she had genetically altered him to be more peaceful and try Xavier's path.

Which Moira and events proved to be utterly false. That was where the "power resetting the neural pathways" thing came in. Any mutant put through the process would reset to "zero" as soon as they used their powers.

[worstblogever]

Here, I'll quote for you.



Then there is the two page pic of the medical scan in X-Men Unlimited #2, which proves his power was rooted in his nervous system, which would have to be altered to baseline human, ie. normal and healthy, in order for his powers to be removed.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/gallery.php?album=Really%20Out%20of%20Costume/&pic=X-Men%20Unlimited%202.jpg

That still doesn't indicate that's what Wanda did when she depowered him. That's what he was, not what he is now.

And that still doesn't mean he couldn't be pushed to have any irrational or insane behaviors if he was a baseline human. We don't know what the High Evolutionary's suit actually works. The guy keeps getting into stressful situations, keeps being faced with his own guilt over M-Day, and how he's failed his people... isn't it possible, just for a moment, he might be a little kooky based off of that.

I mean, after all, you're a baseline human, and I haven't seen any evidence to indicate you're rational. :redface:

So, let's not all go and get torches and pitchforks to go after Brubaker and Fraction when it was one issue where they decided to set up cryptic hints at threats to come, mm?

[Novaya Havoc]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2238/2294568230_9307d4b0c3.jpg

TIMELESS

[KiplingKat]

That still doesn't indicate that's what Wanda did when she depowered him. That's what he was, not what he is now.

For Wanda to remove his powers, she had to return his nervous system to that of a baseline human. Otherwise he would still have his powers. Just as she returned Blob's metobolism to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Dani Moonstar's brain to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Callisto heightened nervous system to that of a baseline human.

They got set to zero. They had to or they would all still be mutants.

And that still doesn't mean he couldn't be pushed to have any irrational or insane behaviors if he was a baseline human. We don't know what the High Evolutionary's suit actually works. The guy keeps getting into stressful situations, keeps being faced with his own guilt over M-Day, and how he's failed his people... isn't it possible, just for a moment, he might be a little kooky based off of that.

But we haven't seen that kind of reaction to these events leading up this. Coming out of M-Day, Magneto was severely depressed, and then very quiet, introspective, rational.

Where did this come from?

And why, when he was turning his guilt over Wanda and the Genoshan Massacre inward at the end of Excalibur Vol. 3 (he was suicidal), would he suddenly turn it outward in this issue?

In Legacy, if he had been wandering around the landscape grumbling to himself, lashing out at people, yeah I might buy it.

But he didn't.

[darknessatnoon]

For Wanda to remove his powers, she had to return his nervous system to that of a baseline human. Otherwise he would still have his powers. Just as she returned Blob's metobolism to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Dani Moonstar's brain to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Callisto heightened nervous system to that of a baseline human.

Not to enable you or anything, but Wanda did not discuss nervous systems. She did not completely reset all people. Some people still had fins and wings. Some people still had powers but were useless anyway (see Icarus). She took Magneto's powers away, but left him crazy. That was his punishment. To quote the great Sylvia Plath, "Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through." His craziness would be the last thing she would remove.

[KiplingKat]

Not to enable you or anything, but Wanda did not discuss nervous systems. She did not completely reset all people. Some people still had fins and wings. Some people still had powers but were useless anyway (see Icarus). She took Magneto's powers away, but left him crazy. That was his punishment. To quote the great Sylvia Plath, "Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through." His craziness would be the last thing she would remove.

And Blob still had tons of skin left over, but in order to remove Magneto powers she HAD to reset his nervous system. His nervous system WAS his powers. Is she didn't make it that of a baseline human, he would still have his powers.

And if she "left him crazy" we didn't see it until this issue.

[darknessatnoon]

And Blob still had tons of skin left over, but in order to remove Magneto powers she HAD to reset his nervous system. His nervous system WAS his powers. Is she didn't make it that of a baseline human, he would still have his powers.

And if she "left him crazy" we didn't see it until this issue.

Blob's fat cells were his powers. Not his nervous system.

[worstblogever]

For Wanda to remove his powers, she had to return his nervous system to that of a baseline human. Otherwise he would still have his powers. Just as she returned Blob's metobolism to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Dani Moonstar's brain to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Callisto heightened nervous system to that of a baseline human.

Remember, the changes that Moira felt needed to be made were when Magneto was de-aged to a baby. He already has been aged again to whatever his body is currently at. Now, mental illnesses progress. You can be born with the genetic potential for schizophrenia, and it gets worse as the meninges in your brain get wider and you get older. Since Moira couldn't tinker with Magneto without depowering him, though, he got to grow up with that instability. It's had years to develop damage.

Which means, Wanda's spell eliminated the potential to develop mental illness, not his kookiness itself.

The Blob's a great example, his mutant gene gave him his girth, and when her spell hit, he was still left the extra folds of skin that had stretched out from his fat. It didn't alter the changes his powers had already had upon his anatomy.

Thus, unless Wanda altered him as a baby... he's nuttier than a Payday bar. And why would she leave Pietro that way, but not Magneto, if you're right?

Because she can't, that's why.

END.

But we haven't seen that kind of reaction to these events leading up this. Coming out of M-Day, Magneto was severely depressed, and then very quiet, introspective, rational.

Where did this come from?

And why, when he was turning his guilt over Wanda and the Genoshan Massacre inward at the end of Excalibur Vol. 3 (he was suicidal), would he suddenly turn it outward in this issue?

In Legacy, if he had been wandering around the landscape grumbling to himself, lashing out at people, yeah I might buy it.

But he didn't.

[KiplingKat]

But it's already been shown that several mutants, while losing their X-genes, kept their physical signs of their power in Generation M Blob. When Moira wanted to restructure Magneto's brain via gene therapy, he would've been a baby. To make him sane, that change would've had to have been done when he was younger to undo the physical damage. Blob may have lost his fat, but he still had all that extra skin. Magneto's brain had already had the effects of years of development for the crazy to set in. And if Wanda's spell left Fred Dukes with extra skin, I'm more than willing to believe it left Magneto with misfiring neurons every once and awhile.

I don't believe how many times I have to repeat myself.

Wanda was not monkeying with genetics like Moira, Sinister, or even the High Evolutionary does, she was remaking reality. It doesn't matter how old he was, she was remaking reality.

Magneto powers were his nervous system. In order to remove those powers, she had to make his nervous system that of a baseline human. That means the neuro-chemical instability caused by his powers, by the very structure of his nervous system built to route EM energies, was removed and replaced with normal, human nervous tissue.

If she did not alter his nervous system he would still have his powers. It's not "I'm going to take *this* part and leave *that*." It's "I'm taking this part and therefore everything it causes".

He still has emotional issues up the yin-yang, but he isn't going to go rabidly, meglomanically insane as we have seen in the past.

[worstblogever]

And if she "left him crazy" we didn't see it until this issue.

Exactly. It was lying in the grass like a kooky viper to strike!

[worstblogever]

I don't believe how many times I have to repeat myself.

Wanda not monkeying with genetics like Moira and Sinister do, she was remaking reality.

Magneto powers were his nervous system. In order to remove those powers, she had to make his nervous system that of a baseline human. That means the neuro-chemical instability caused by his powers, by the very structure of his nervous system built to route EM energies, was removed and replaced with normal, human nervous tissue.

If she did not alter his nervous system he would still have his powers.

And again...

Yet for some reason, Wanda cured Magneto's insanity, and not Pietro's?

Doesn't wash.

[darknessatnoon]

Exactly. It was lying in the grass like a kooky viper to strike!

I covered this when I quoted Rivka on his psychology. He has outbursts but periods of perceived calmness as well. I am not going to argue with experts.

[Home made ectoplasm]

I don't believe how many times I have to repeat myself.

I think the suit makes him crazy, like his powers did, cos it isn't explained on panel how it works.

[worstblogever]

I covered this when I quoted Rivka on his psychology. He has outbursts but periods of perceived calmness as well. I am not going to argue with experts.

I'm sorry, did Rivka show you a degree?

And, even if he does have credentials, even the best psychiatrists can misdiagnose a patient.

Especially when it's not a real person, and a fictional character.

[KiplingKat]

And again...

Yet for some reason, Wanda cured Magneto's insanity, and not Pietro's?

Doesn't wash.

Because Pietro's madness was not caused by his powers. It was caused by his sister going mad and killing their friends, the stress of potentially losing the only stable emotional force in his life, his father killing him, and the only stable emotional force in his life turning on him and removing his powers which he was very attached to.

They were emotional causes, not physiological.

[KiplingKat]

I covered this when I quoted Rivka on his psychology. He has outbursts but periods of perceived calmness as well. I am not going to argue with experts.

Without the powers, those episodes are gone.

[Bronze Badger]

Was that Hellion out w/ Pixie at the Dazzler concert?

[worstblogever]

Because Pietro's madness was not caused by his powers. It was caused by his sister going mad and killing their friends, the stress of potentially losing the only stable emotional force in his life, his father killing him, and the only stable emotional force in his life turning on him and removing his powers which he was very attached to.

They were emotional causes, not physiological.

So the genetic madness that Magneto has, is clearly not affecting him anymore, and all three of his crazy, depowered genetically spawned children (sorry Polaris fans, but she go into denial about it and did join Apocalypse), are in fact showing just normal baseline human kind of crazy?

So THAT'S why Pietro got left crazy by Wanda, whose total reality-warping powers can't manage to undo mental illness in her brother, but totally could for her dad?

You contradict yourself sir.

[Novaya Havoc]

Was that Hellion out w/ Pixie at the Dazzler concert?

No. That was one of Dazzler's many gay male fans. He was a random.

[Brian Cronin]

If you don't think a point is worth arguing, then don't argue it.

There is not like, some point system or whatever where, if someone says something and no one argues against it, then that statement is awarded five "true points."

If someone says something you disagree with, argue the point.

If you see that you're going nowhere with the argument, you can either

A. continue arguing anyways

or

B. stop arguing.

Not insult the other person, or talk about how stupid the argument is (that should be a given, anyways :wink: ) or whatever.

Just either continue arguing or stop arguing. Either or.

If you choose to continue, do so nicely. If you choose to stop, it does not mean that the person you're arguing with "wins," so feel free to drop it.

If everyone ignored silly arguments that they did not want to argue in the first place, this would be a nice thread.

So if you find an argument interesting, argue it. If you DON'T find an argument interesting, IGNORE IT. Silly arguments need multiple people to argue.

-Brian

[worstblogever]

Moving to the West Coast certainly won't solve the X-Men's problems, that's for sure. All it's done is give them a whole slew of different threats, that at best are loosely based on their past foes to battle.

Hellfire Club -----> Hellfire Cult
Bolivar Trask & the Sentinels ---> Resurrected Simon Trask w/ possible Transmode Virus
Apocalypse w/ Celestial Tech---> High Evolutionary w/ Celestial tech

Plus a couple others. It will be nice to see the Marvel U. again have East Coast and West Coast settings, though. Crossovers still can happen, but other than Wolverine simultaneously being on both coasts... no idea if there will be other continuity wonks resulting.

[Deus ex Chris]

Plus a couple others. It will be nice to see the Marvel U. again have East Coast and West Coast settings, though. Crossovers still can happen, but other than Wolverine simultaneously being on both coasts... no idea if there will be other continuity wonks resulting.
Well, I don't think that's a big deal, but the people who do shouldn't forget Pixie. She can instantly drop Wolverine (as well as Storm) anywhere he wants to be, so he's literally seconds away from the X-Men and the Avengers.

[worstblogever]

Well, I don't think that's a big deal, but the people who do shouldn't forget Pixie. She can instantly drop Wolverine (as well as Storm) anywhere he wants to be, so he's literally seconds away from the X-Men and the Avengers.

While it makes sense... I don't think Wolverine is comfortable enough with Meggan to let her give him a lift anywhere after the "unicorns" incident. :redface:

[Polaris Rocks]

I thought Uncanny 500 was a decient issue, not incredible, but it set the stage for a new start to the X-books.

[jarrod]

Thanks WBE, now you've made me miss Meggan. :frown:

[DeadXMan]

I thought Uncanny 500 was a decient issue, not incredible, but it set the stage for a new start to the X-books.

This pails to X-force #1 (My God, I never thought I would write that in my lifetime)

[DeadXMan]

Thanks WBE, now you've made me miss Meggan. :frown:

I miss meggen being drawn by Young

[worstblogever]

Thanks WBE, now you've made me miss Meggan. :frown:

I meant Pixie, Meg(g?)an Gwynn.

And I miss her too.

[Polaris Rocks]

So the genetic madness that Magneto has, is clearly not affecting him anymore, and all three of his crazy, depowered genetically spawned children (sorry Polaris fans, but she go into denial about it and did join Apocalypse), are in fact showing just normal baseline human kind of crazy?


Magneto, Pietro, Wanda, and Lorna have suffered emotional breakdowns and sometimes acted irrationally, but I don't believe they are crazy or insane. They just have emotional problems.

[DeadXMan]

You survive two genocides and see how well you hold up.

[worstblogever]

Magneto, Pietro, Wanda, and Lorna have suffered emotional breakdowns and sometimes acted irrationally, but I don't believe they are crazy or insane. They just have emotional problems.

Potato, potatoe.

I give Lorna the benefit of the doubt out of the three of them. The other three have admitted it, at one point or another.

[jmc247]

Magneto, Pietro, Wanda, and Lorna have suffered emotional breakdowns and sometimes acted irrationally, but I don't believe they are crazy or insane. They just have emotional problems.

In the case of all of them (possibly except Pietro) it is supposedly mainly an artifically induced problem. As Professor X said in HoM #1 each time Wanda uses her reality warping powers she loses part of her grasp on reality. And, Marvel has the electromagnetism rational for Magneto and Lorna's more out there actions. That said I wouldn't explain away Magneto's actions in Uncanny 500 to power madness or any kind of artificial bipolar.

[Anna]

Hello Anna. How has your priesthood been going? All the confessions, penance and kneeling been running along smoothly, I hope?

Shoulder's getting sore from flogging people, but I'm enjoying myself. :evilsmile:

I think those people who mention Our Lord's drug use are confusing Him with the Vile Imposter Xorneto, who was hooked on "Kick"

[Swashbuckler]

For Wanda to remove his powers, she had to return his nervous system to that of a baseline human. Otherwise he would still have his powers. Just as she returned Blob's metobolism to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Dani Moonstar's brain to that of a baseline human, just as she returned Callisto heightened nervous system to that of a baseline human.

They got set to zero. They had to or they would all still be mutants.



But we haven't seen that kind of reaction to these events leading up this. Coming out of M-Day, Magneto was severely depressed, and then very quiet, introspective, rational.

Where did this come from?

And why, when he was turning his guilt over Wanda and the Genoshan Massacre inward at the end of Excalibur Vol. 3 (he was suicidal), would he suddenly turn it outward in this issue?

In Legacy, if he had been wandering around the landscape grumbling to himself, lashing out at people, yeah I might buy it.

But he didn't.

what about the mutants who kept their lame appearance but lost their abilities?

[Flâneur]

Shoulder's getting sore from flogging people, but I'm enjoying myself. :evilsmile:

I think those people who mention Our Lord's drug use are confusing Him with the Vile Imposter Xorneto, who was hooked on "Kick"

You're right Anna, it sure is confusing! Magneto was such a godly great actor that he could fool everyone into thinking he was Xorn! Even while hooked on "Kick".

[DeadXMan]

Xorn was nothing more the Wanda's dry run for Disassembled.:mad:

[darknessatnoon]

What do you think it is about Magneto's cult of personality and Political Cause that allows his "followers" to forget that he is fictional?

In real life, there are magnets and then there are people. Usually they are not the same thing. Sage has a "computer brain." What does that even mean? I told the IT guy at work about her. He became livid. I calmed him down when I was able to explain that "it just means she is really organized." In real life, there really are organized people so she actually is an intelligible character.

Magneto, not so much.

[Dagger]

What do you think it is about Magneto's cult of personality and Political Cause that allows his "followers" to forget that he is fictional?

In real life, there are magnets and then there are people. Usually they are not the same thing. Sage has a "computer brain." What does that even mean? I told the IT guy at work about her. He became livid. I calmed him down when I was able to explain that "it just means she is really organized." In real life, there really are organized people so she actually is an intelligible character.

Magneto, not so much.
Maybe they too feel like an outcast, and feel the only way to get their point across is by attacking the general populace and stealing atomic bombs from Cape Canaveral, or sink russian subs to make a point?

[Pro]

No one ever deemed Lorna or Pietro insane.


No one except most people ..

Really .. talking to ghosts and making out with your illusionary wife in jail ..? Not really a sign of sanity. Nor blaming all your troubles on a little girl who you subsequently try to murder. Pietro insane? Perish the thought.

[steve2275]

The has been that will do what the X-Men aren't capable of doing apparently: He's gonna reignite mutantkind. And he will be treated like royalty after he does.:evilsmile:
reminds me of house of m :tongue:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

No one except most people ..

Zing. :biggrin:

[darknessatnoon]

You'll have to argue with Doctor Doom fans over who is the highest ranking villain in Marvel history. My money's on Doctor Doom.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/kneel.jpg

[david r]

Does #500 come across as decompressed?

[steve2275]

where does that pic come from?

[darknessatnoon]

where does that pic come from?

Marvel Super Villain Team-Up #14. It was a series involving Red Skull, Zola, Magneto, Attuma, Ring-Master, The Shroud, Namor, Hate-Monger, Dr. Doom. I think this issue was like the first or second comic I ever got. #14 continued on into a Champions issue. Out of boredom, Doom lets Magneto go and says he is allowed to get the help of one X-Man, so Magneto chooses Beast to help him. Beast and Magneto end up battling the Champions.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/kneel2.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/kneel3.jpg

[jmc247]

Marvel Super Villain Team-Up #14. It was a series involving Red Skull, Zola, Magneto, Attuma, Ring-Master, The Shroud, Namor, Hate-Monger, Dr. Doom. I think this issue was like the first or second comic I ever got. #14 continued on into a Champions issue. Out of boredom, Doom lets Magneto go and says he is allowed to get the help of one X-Man, so Magneto chooses Beast to help him. Beast and Magneto end up battling the Champions.


In the end who won?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/DoomMags.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

In the end who won?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/DoomMags.jpg

With the help of Beast, he won. But Doom let him win out of boredom, fanatic. Ruling a world without resistance was "too easy" for him. Anyways, a panel of Magneto kneeling before Doom is priceless.

[jmc247]

With the help of Beast, he won. But Doom let him win out of boredom, fanatic. Ruling a world without resistance was "too easy" for him. Anyways, a panel of Magneto kneeling before Doom is priceless.

I very much doubt Doom let them win.

[Come To Deathstrike]

In the end who won?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/DoomMags.jpg

Hypothesis rejected.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19940/451159-beast_249_super.jpg

Magneto's saviour.

[darknessatnoon]

I very much doubt Doom let them win.

Maybe you should try reading the issues where it has Doom discussing letting Magneto win. But why bother. Magneto already controls the polarity of your brain-waves. Evidence won't make any difference.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Maybe you should try reading the issues where it has Doom discussing letting Magneto win. But why bother. Magneto already controls the polarity of your brain-waves. Evidence won't make any difference.

Stop denying the contributions of Beast.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6220/152087-51606-beast_super.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

Hypothesis rejected.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19940/451159-beast_249_super.jpg

Magneto's saviour.

For you.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/beast1.jpg

I know how you love bombast.

[jmc247]

Maybe you should try reading the issues where it has Doom discussing letting Magneto win. But why bother. Magneto already controls the polarity of your brain-waves. Evidence won't make any difference.

Its called rationalization

[tetragene]

I can't believe this issue sent the Magneto fans THIS far over the edge :eek: It wasn't even like reading a completely different character...

[jmc247]

I can't believe this issue sent the Magneto fans THIS far over the edge :eek: It wasn't even like reading a completely different character...

Uncanny 500 or Magneto's actions in it doesn't bother me that much without knowing what he is really up to so don't generalize Magneto fans.

It bothers KiplingKat though

[Come To Deathstrike]

For you.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/beast1.jpg

I know how you love bombast.

How to beat Magneto: Just leap at him from behind, or while he is distracted.

See, Cannonballz' take-out is closely following continuity.
I thought Magnet-Heads loved continuity?:confused:

[jmc247]

I thought Magnet-Heads loved continuity?:confused:

I like how you and others are generalizing how Magneto fans view the fight in Uncanny 500 based on what one poster feels about the issue.

I never complained once about Sam taking down Magneto as I recall only one poster on this thread did.

Just because KiplingKat posts alot doesn't mean she repesents the opinions of all or even most Magneto fans. KiplingKat has her views on Magneto and his family and they represent her views not the views of all Magneto fans. Just like I represent my views not the views of any one else.

[jester1436]

This pails to X-force #1 (My God, I never thought I would write that in my lifetime)

I'm sure there was a time no one ever would have thought you'd write anything in your lifetime. Good job!

*thumbs up*

[Come To Deathstrike]

I like how you and others are generalizing how Magneto fans view the fight in Uncanny 500 based on what one poster feels about the issue.

I never complained once about Sam taking down Magneto as I recall only one poster on this thread did.

Just because KiplingKat posts alot doesn't mean she repesents the opinions of all or even most Magneto fans. KiplingKat has her views on Magneto and his family and they represent her views not the views of all Magneto fans. Just like I represent my views not the views of any one else.

Well, she thinks she does.

I think Magneto is easy to beat.
Even D-list queen Spiral did it.

http://www.freewebs.com/eternalalanna/1Spiral.jpg

[jester1436]

Well, she thinks she does.

I think Magneto is easy to beat.
Even D-list queen Spiral did it.

Spiral should have swapped Magneto's body with an Asian woman. He would have been ahead of the curve on the tranny villain stakes.

[darknessatnoon]

I do have to give CC this: when writing Spiral he was truly inspired. She gets all the best lines. Storm was not his muse, Spiral was.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Spiral should have swapped Magneto's body with an Asian woman. He would have been ahead of the curve on the tranny villain stakes.

She should have stolen his eyes!

[jmc247]

Well, she thinks she does.


And, you talk like her opinions represent all Magneto fans even when you know better. Which is better?

[Come To Deathstrike]

And, you talk like her opinions represent all Magneto fans even when you know better. Which is better?

Me.
I was hardly going to say the other one now was I.

[jester1436]

Me.
I was hardly going to say the other one now was I.

I agree with Josef.

[darknessatnoon]

I agree with Josef.

I don't know if it's possible, but I think I agree with you while disagreeing with Josef!

[CyberHubbs]

I'm not about to read through this entire thread, so I'll say this. I read #500 last night, and while it didn't blow me away, I don't think Magneto was improperly handled. He was playing a role to keep the X-Men occupied while the High Evolutionary was putzing around with the Dreaming Celestial. Magneto was basically a "villain", tugging on his mustache an' all, talking trash to Cyclops, because the X-Men would eat it up without ever questioning the whys until it was too late.

He was a distraction, plain and simple.

[Pro]

He was a distraction, plain and simple.

Yea except there was no real reason for a distraction. Not like the x-men were guarding the celestial, they were at a party staged in their honor. Magneto zipped out of the fight with no problem so he could just as easily have zipped to the celestial's location, grabbed whatever he wanted and zipped out again without anyone even noticing him. Instead he acts like a madman in the one city on the entire globe (apparently) that likes mutants, sicks sentinels on the last remnants of the race he wants to save and turns everyone against himself once more. Magneto is a moron.

[DeadXMan]

Magneto should never be a distraction.

:evilangry:

and as soon as the bills from this, the Two hulks Fight, thor vs Hulk and Skrulls fights. They'll change thier tune

[Pach!]

Yea except there was no real reason for a distraction. Not like the x-men were guarding the celestial, they were at a party staged in their honor. Magneto zipped out of the fight with no problem so he could just as easily have zipped to the celestial's location, grabbed whatever he wanted and zipped out again without anyone even noticing him. Instead he acts like a madman in the one city on the entire globe (apparently) that likes mutants, sicks sentinels on the last remnants of the race he wants to save and turns everyone against himself once more. Magneto is a moron.
It wasn't a party held in their honor. It was an art exposition. If Magneto didn't distract him, someone meddling around at the Celestial would have taken priority and they would have headed there. And he sicked old sentinels on them. One that he was sure the X-men could destroy. 2 birds, 1 stone.

Plus I dont think the Magneto/Sentinels battle was that fast. The H.E. needed time. Which is why there was a destruction far away.

[atomicturtle]

Well, they tried. A+ for effort. All that momentum from Endangered Species and Messiah Complex... but, no. They totally dumped everything awesome they'd built over the last couple years, and went back to sanctimonious preaching. "To hell with good stories," says Marvel, "X-men is, and always will be our political activism book!" Seriously. Could they beat us over the head with their "yay environmentalism" bit any harder? This is worse than what they did with Spider-man.

"Piotr... did it have to be a hybrid?"

You know, not once in the history of Emma Frost have I ever wished death on her. I guess there's a first time for everything.

When I got to the last page, I actually found myself thinking, "Hellfire Cult, huh? Well I hope they win."

Uncanny's officially off my pull.

[DeadXMan]

It wasn't a party held in their honor. It was an art exposition. If Magneto didn't distract him, someone meddling around at the Celestial would have taken priority and they would have headed there. And he sicked old sentinels on them. One that he was sure the X-men could destroy. 2 birds, 1 stone.

Plus I dont think the Magneto/Sentinels battle was that fast. The H.E. needed time. Which is why there was a destruction far away.

it wasn't shown he needed the time. the park was closed and on the other side of town. the damn thing did even make a sound.

[tetragene]

I don't get all the bitching about the "environmental" talk in the issue. It was primarily Beast (and I'm sorry, I'm no big fan of the character but I can easily buy him being pro-green), was more of a reassurance to the mayor of SF & it took up all of a few panels and that was it. It's not like every other word balloon they were force feeding us pro-green propaganda...

[CyberHubbs]

Yea except there was no real reason for a distraction. Not like the x-men were guarding the celestial, they were at a party staged in their honor. Magneto zipped out of the fight with no problem so he could just as easily have zipped to the celestial's location, grabbed whatever he wanted and zipped out again without anyone even noticing him. Instead he acts like a madman in the one city on the entire globe (apparently) that likes mutants, sicks sentinels on the last remnants of the race he wants to save and turns everyone against himself once more. Magneto is a moron.

Magneto had nothing to do with the Celestial, though. The High Evolutionary was the one fiddling around with it. Someone would have clearly noticed, 'cause I imagine someone is always monitoring a big sleeping god in the middle of a park that suddenly lit up the sky around it.

Magneto should never be a distraction.

:evilangry:

and as soon as the bills from this, the Two hulks Fight, thor vs Hulk and Skrulls fights. They'll change thier tune

He's obviously trying to save homo superior, and went to the High Evolutionary to do so. Plus, he has no powers. Best he can do right now is be a distraction.

[darknessatnoon]

I don't get all the bitching about the "environmental" talk in the issue. It was primarily Beast (and I'm sorry, I'm no big fan of the character but I can easily buy him being pro-green), was more of a reassurance to the mayor of SF & it took up all of a few panels and that was it. It's not like every other word balloon they were force feeding us pro-green propaganda...

Agreed. I am not an environmentalist. I consider them hypochondriacs. But the X-Men would be "green." It's not a big deal.

[Affinity]

Spiral should have swapped Magneto's body with an Asian woman. He would have been ahead of the curve on the tranny villain stakes.
LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

lol

[DeadXMan]

so why would HE say yes to Mags and no to beast?

HE said Science can't undo what Wanda has done.

[darknessatnoon]

so why would HE say yes to Mags and no to beast?

HE said Science can't undo what Wanda has done.

The Celestials are beyond normal science. The High Evolutionary is probably lying to Magneto, anyway, and misleadingly using him other purposes.

If you can't wait for all your questions to be answered by one issue, perhaps you should consider trade-waiting the book?

[DeadXMan]

as for the Hybrid joke
It wasn't needed and really would Emma give a damn?

now if it was a Porch or an Aston Martin then it would make more sense

[DeadXMan]

The Celestials are beyond normal science. The High Evolutionary is probably lying to Magneto, anyway, and misleadingly using him other purposes.

If you can't wait for all your questions to be answered by one issue, perhaps you should consider trade-waiting the book?

Lying and misleading isn't HE's MO.

[tetragene]

If you can't wait for all your questions to be answered by one issue, perhaps you should consider trade-waiting the book?

lol, I think it's escaping people, for God knows what reason, that anything that was started in #500 was not going to then end/be answered in #500. It's a serial comic series, people--they're trying to get you to buy future issues of the book--everything isn't going to be intro'ed and wrapped in one issue.

[darknessatnoon]

Lying and misleading isn't HE's MO.

Hello? Did you read Annihilation Conquest? He totally used lesbian Quasar and Adam Warlock. Through LIES.

[jester1436]

so why would HE say yes to Mags and no to beast?

HE said Science can't undo what Wanda has done.

Obviously, incontinent old man is slightly higher on the respect scale than incontinent house cat.

[CyberHubbs]

Lying and misleading isn't HE's MO.

Annihilation: Conquest.

[DeadXMan]

Hello? Did you read Annihilation Conquest? He totally used lesbian Quasar and Adam Warlock. Through LIES.

no he got a better offer after his capture.
and I never Said anything about betraying

[atomicturtle]

But the X-Men would be "green." It's not a big deal.

Sure, and I don't mind that. It makes perfect sense for their characters. Nor am I really against environmentalism or hybrid cars or anything. But is it really necessary to beat us over the head with it in the comic? This is a beef I've always had with Marvel Comics in general. They're so preachy.

It's like, dude... stop pontificating and frickin' HIT someone. If I wanted a lecture on civil rights, or environmentalism, or the economy, or world hunger - I'd turn on NPR, not read a comic book.

Take a hint from DC/Wildstorm. Blue Beetle was meant to appeal to the hispanic market - but it's hardly a "hispanic comic." It doesn't preach about issues in the hispanic community or whine about poverty or immigration. The fact that he's hispanic is incidental to the story of Blue Beetle. Same goes for The Authority or Midnighter. Very prominantly gay characters - but does the book ever go out of its way to talk about gay rights? No. Heck, they don't even rub it in our faces that these guys are gay. It's just part of who they are. Just another thing. Even Green Arrow's settled down a little bit (or, at least been able to poke fun at his own hyper-political nature.)

Marvel Comics, especially in X-men, has never been able to do that. It's not enough that Beast and the rest of the X-men are environmentalists - they have to keep reminding you that they're environmentalists. They did it like 8 times in #500. I'm sorry, but that gets real old real quick.

[darknessatnoon]

Sure, and I don't mind that. It makes perfect sense for their characters. Nor am I really against environmentalism or hybrid cars or anything. But is it really necessary to beat us over the head with it in the comic? This is a beef I've always had with Marvel Comics in general. They're so preachy.

It's like, dude... stop pontificating and frickin' HIT someone. If I wanted a lecture on civil rights, or environmentalism, or the economy, or world hunger - I'd turn on NPR, not read a comic book.

Take a hint from DC/Wildstorm. Blue Beetle was meant to appeal to the hispanic market - but it's hardly a "hispanic comic." It doesn't preach about issues in the hispanic community or whine about poverty or immigration. The fact that he's hispanic is incidental to the story of Blue Beetle. Same goes for The Authority or Midnighter. Very prominantly gay characters - but does the book ever go out of its way to talk about gay rights? No. Heck, they don't even rub it in our faces that these guys are gay. It's just part of who they are. Just another thing. Even Green Arrow's settled down a little bit (or, at least been able to poke fun at his own hyper-political nature.)

Marvel Comics, especially in X-men, has never been able to do that. It's not enough that Beast and the rest of the X-men are environmentalists - they have to keep reminding you that they're environmentalists. They did it like 8 times in #500. I'm sorry, but that gets real old real quick.

I don't really see your point. They are in SF. They are dealing with the Green Mafia. The X-Men are Liberal Conformist scoundrels. It's not about appealing to environmentalist Readers. It's about the X-Men trying to appeal to San Franciscans.The X-Men are not subtle about their politics. That is not the point of them.

What gets old real quick is CC fans undermining the new authorial regime! Do not help enable them.

[tetragene]

Marvel Comics, especially in X-men, has never been able to do that. It's not enough that Beast and the rest of the X-men are environmentalists - they have to keep reminding you that they're environmentalists. They did it like 8 times in #500. I'm sorry, but that gets real old real quick.

I'll take 3 panels (and that's all it is--3 panels) of Beast waxing poetic about "going green" over needless panels of the X-men reminding each other what their mutant abilities are and how they function...for the Nth time...

[mikekerr3]

Sure, and I don't mind that. It makes perfect sense for their characters. Nor am I really against environmentalism or hybrid cars or anything. But is it really necessary to beat us over the head with it in the comic? This is a beef I've always had with Marvel Comics in general. They're so preachy.

It's like, dude... stop pontificating and frickin' HIT someone. If I wanted a lecture on civil rights, or environmentalism, or the economy, or world hunger - I'd turn on NPR, not read a comic book.

Take a hint from DC/Wildstorm. Blue Beetle was meant to appeal to the hispanic market - but it's hardly a "hispanic comic." It doesn't preach about issues in the hispanic community or whine about poverty or immigration. The fact that he's hispanic is incidental to the story of Blue Beetle. Same goes for The Authority or Midnighter. Very prominantly gay characters - but does the book ever go out of its way to talk about gay rights? No. Heck, they don't even rub it in our faces that these guys are gay. It's just part of who they are. Just another thing. Even Green Arrow's settled down a little bit (or, at least been able to poke fun at his own hyper-political nature.)

Marvel Comics, especially in X-men, has never been able to do that. It's not enough that Beast and the rest of the X-men are environmentalists - they have to keep reminding you that they're environmentalists. They did it like 8 times in #500. I'm sorry, but that gets real old real quick.

The x-men have been preachy since the first issue, If you don't like it then this is the wrong book.

[Anna]

so why would HE say yes to Mags and no to beast?

HE said Science can't undo what Wanda has done.

Maybe Our Most Holy Lord Magneto had a more interesting proposal than Beast's begging.

[DeadXMan]

Maybe Our Most Holy Lord Magneto had a more interesting proposal than Beast's begging.

That or he kicked HE ass. The man is a former special ops Nazi hunter for Israeli.

[Red Orion]

That or he kicked HE ass. The man is a former special ops Nazi hunter for Israeli.

And High Evolutionary has gone one-on-one with Galactus. Compared to that Nazi hunters are small fries.

[DeadXMan]

you never faced the Israeli Army, have you?

[Jake V]

That or he kicked HE ass. The man is a former special ops Nazi hunter for Israeli.

Yes, Magneto is WORKING FOR the High Evolutionary because he kicked his ass.

[jmc247]

The Celestials are beyond normal science. The High Evolutionary is probably lying to Magneto, anyway, and misleadingly using him other purposes.


Possible considering Marvel isn't going to undo M-Day quite a few years. Machine powered Magneto is going to get old fast just like machine powered Lorna got old for me starting about a year ago. I am hoping some Deus ex machina like the M'Krann reactivates their X-gene.

[DeadXMan]

More like Mags is letting him think he working for him.

It seems like a partnership more then being a lackey/superior relationship

[Red Orion]

you never faced the Israeli Army, have you?

No, but I've met an Israeli stripper who dressed up as a Israeli soldier.

[DeadXMan]

No, but I've met an Israeli stripper who dressed up as a Israeli soldier.

Those are even more deadlier.

[nikbackm]

Possible considering Marvel isn't going to undo M-Day quite a few years. Machine powered Magneto is going to get old fast just like machine powered Lorna got old for me starting about a year ago.

Why would it be a problem if their powers are machine generated instead of "natural" as long as they work the same way?

I hope you are not discriminating against cyborgs? :smile:

[jmc247]

Why would it be a problems if their powers are machine generated instead of "natural" as long as they work the same way?


Because they are supposed to be mutants, not humans with machines mimiking their powers. In the short run it doesn't matter, in the long run it is going to get old.

[Anna]

Is Iron Man old?

[Jake V]

Is Iron Man old?

Nah, he's like mid to late 30's.

[jmc247]

Is Iron Man old?

Iron Man and Doctor Doom are supposed to be technologically enhanced humans, that is the basis for them as characters. Magneto and Polaris are supposed to be mutants, that is the basis for them as characters. In the short run it doesn't matter, in the long run it does.

[worstblogever]

Is Iron Man old?

He's supposed to be in his late 30's... catch is, not too long before Onslaught, they de-aged him to his teens, and after "Heroes Return", he came back older.

How much older, they've never specified. But mid to late 30s is a good estimate.

[DDM]

Does #500 come across as decompressed?

To me, Uncanny X-Men #500 & the other previous Ed Brubaker Uncanny X-Men stories is nothing but decompression for the sake TPB; unfortunately, Brubaker forgot to tell a story in the comic book.

[DDM]

where does that pic come from?

Super-Villain Team-Up #14 (part 1):

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/83631092200.14.GIF

It's part of a crossover with The Champions #16 (part 2):

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/15851278838.16.GIF


Beast also was a guest star who was a member of The Avengers at the time. Magneto mistakenly calls Beast "X-Man."

Also this is Silver Age Magneto thanks to Bill Mantlo. Magneto was only then recently returned to full power in Uncanny X-Men #104. Chris Claremont even writes Magneto differently in Uncanny X-Men #104, #111-113, etc al in comparison to Bill Mantlo's characterization.

[Flâneur]

Obviously, incontinent old man is slightly higher on the respect scale than incontinent house cat.
LOL

Stop being awesome, it is making me giggle.
Sure, and I don't mind that. It makes perfect sense for their characters. Nor am I really against environmentalism or hybrid cars or anything. But is it really necessary to beat us over the head with it in the comic? This is a beef I've always had with Marvel Comics in general. They're so preachy.

It's like, dude... stop pontificating and frickin' HIT someone. If I wanted a lecture on civil rights, or environmentalism, or the economy, or world hunger - I'd turn on NPR, not read a comic book.

Take a hint from DC/Wildstorm. Blue Beetle was meant to appeal to the hispanic market - but it's hardly a "hispanic comic." It doesn't preach about issues in the hispanic community or whine about poverty or immigration. The fact that he's hispanic is incidental to the story of Blue Beetle. Same goes for The Authority or Midnighter. Very prominantly gay characters - but does the book ever go out of its way to talk about gay rights? No. Heck, they don't even rub it in our faces that these guys are gay. It's just part of who they are. Just another thing. Even Green Arrow's settled down a little bit (or, at least been able to poke fun at his own hyper-political nature.)

Marvel Comics, especially in X-men, has never been able to do that. It's not enough that Beast and the rest of the X-men are environmentalists - they have to keep reminding you that they're environmentalists. They did it like 8 times in #500. I'm sorry, but that gets real old real quick.
Um, what? I'm sorry but what?

We got a small trail of chatter from Beast so as to reassure the Mayor of San Fran as regards their new residence. Beast is a natural fit to be green, they're sweet talking for the mayor's approval and it's just a few panels. It makes sense for Emma to comment about the hybrid also as green is chic now, like Emma. She's also incredibly sarcastic as a character.

And if the only way you can tolerate hispanic or gay characters in comics is if their ethnicity or sexuality is never mentioned then I don't think it's Marvel that has the problem.
Super-Villain Team-Up #14 (part 1):

It's part of a crossover with The Champions #16 (part 2):

Also this is Silver Age Magneto thanks to Bill Mantlo. Magneto was only then recently returned to full power in Uncanny X-Men #104. Chris Claremont even writes Magneto differently in Uncanny X-Men #104, #111-113, etc al in comparison to Bill Mantlo's characterization.
You're just a few pages too late, darling. This has already been covered.

[Anna]

Nah, he's like mid to late 30's.

No, I mean does seeing Iron Man use a tech powered suit get old? Is Lorna actually using a machine, or was she trnsformed? (Didn't read Emperor Vulcan.)

[Cytokinesis]

No, I mean does seeing Iron Man use a tech powered suit get old? Is Lorna actually using a machine, or was she trnsformed? (Didn't read Emperor Vulcan.)

It's basically wired into her nervous system so you don't actually see it, its just there.

[jmc247]

Is Lorna actually using a machine

If you go by what Emma said she is machine powered, though like with Magneto's vest is isn't entirely clear how the machine replicates their powers.

It's basically wired into her nervous system so you don't actually see it, its just there

Emma said the machine was hardwired into her, but didn't say anything about her nervous system.

[drwho]

am I the only one that cant picture the magneto that showed up in this issue like the one we have seen in excalibur and legacy?

[worstblogever]

am I the only one that cant picture the magneto that showed up in this issue like the one we have seen in excalibur and legacy?

Have you read the rest of this thread? Lots of people would agree with you on that, man.

[Anna]

Happens all the time. One writer spends months getting a character moving in a certain direction; while someone else undoes everything in a few panels.

[Charybdis4]

Finally got my copy (very, very late...) & I honestly don't know what to make of it.

I know they need to build up the new story setting, but this issue really didn't feel like a #500 book to me.

I know its been done before, but I really have to mention the god awful Land art. WTF?

There is one panel which contains (in my view) his greatest ever orgasm face. It's the one where Magneto has just awakened the Sentinels & there is a girl dressed like Kitty (with fish net gloves.) I take it she's supposed to be screaming in terror but in actual fact it looks like her love eggs have just started quivering!

And what happened to Scott? He looks like he's eaten the whole buffet table whilst Emma is broadcasting his mutant message.

[Pro]

He looks like he's eaten the whole buffet table whilst Emma is broadcasting his mutant message.

He's happy! Despite the entire mutant race practically being wiped out and letting his son jump into an unknown future again with the one toddler that can save his race and sending a bunch of killers out in the field Scott is happy damn it to hell because Emma wears boots in bed and Scott's been blessed with puffed up nipples, and if he wants to eat the whole buffet table to celebrate that let him gain a few pounds for once!

The 80's hair is inexcusable though ..

[Binker]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)

UNCANNY X-MEN #500

Written by Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction
Art by Greg Land and Terry Dodson
Covers by Alex Ross, Michael Turner, Greg Land and Terry Dodson
Edited by Nick Lowe

PLOT:
Sentinels? What? And Magneto? And is that the Master Mold? What the hell is going on in San Francisco now that the Uncanny X-Men have relocated there? They’ve got a new Headquarters and a new status quo as the gauntlet is thrown for a new era of mutantkind. It’s all here in the double-sized anniversary issue that sets up the plotlines that will be developed over the next year in UNCANNY. The future begins now!

REVIEW:
Astonishing X-Men #25 was my first Marvel issue to review, and good time too, as it was about its new "Second Stage" turning point. Now my second Marvel title to review happens to be another X-title: Uncanny X-Men! Only this time, it is also doubling as my first issue of the title as well. I always wanted to jump on this book, but certain stopped me. Whether it was money, or it ws just that there wasn't a point, even a good one, to jump on towards. And that (not money) was the reason as to why I had not gotten this title. Now, from the heels of Astonishing's turning point, the main X-book gets the same one too. Here is Uncanny X-Men #500!

I've never read Uncanny before, as I said, so I don't know the history if Brubaker had done just good or just bad, maybe even both, on these issues (Fraction is a new addition), but this issue was good, maybe even very good. As promised, it sets up alot of things that this series, if not all the X-books, will be dealing with from now til it's done. In terms of continuity, this is not set after Astonishing, but I see it as before it. This issue's story has those "Two Weeks Later" headers at times during it's storytelling, so Astonishing's storyline could've been occuring during those times as well.

Just as we've been hearing, as much as seen from Astonishing, this is the first canon issue about the X-Men's first experience and welcome in San Francisco. Living there is better than in all the X-Men history with the team, and I believe mostly mutants, living in New York. They're treated like everyone else, and that's what Xavier wanted. Of course, a cetrtain someone may not like that, and that's Magneto. He may have lost his powers, but that ain't stopping him as he has a powered suit with his powers and help from aliens. Is Magneto just filled with enough rage and is so fill with himself that he can't just enjoy what's going on? No! See? That's a reason why I hate Magneto. Another plotline is, and I don't believe that is him, Simon Trask who supplied Gee with the Sentinels that Magneto controlled against the X-Men. If it is him, then he has some powers. But if not, and what I believe isn't, who is it, or they? Finally, we have a new group called the Hellfire Cult, whose sole mission is to bring back the city to the humans and not the "muties". And from the looks of it, two of our X-friends might want to watch themselves.

Overall, this issue was so good, that just like Astonishing, this is a must-read for new and old fans alike. As promised, this issue sets up many plotlines we will be going through in the future: Magneto and his alien buddies, Simon Trask (or something who is controlling him), and the Hellfire Cult. This was set before Astonishing #25, so it offered what was it like for the team to experience and be welcomed by their new home. Compared to New York, to which they've stayed since the '60s, if San Francisco was like this even durin that time, why they didn't move there sooner is beyondf me. Anyway, my second Marvel title to review, and my first issue of Uncanny X-Men was all good, and that has to be the same for others, new and old.

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: Things start out grim for the newest X-Girl, and is anyone prepared for the menace of the Hellfire Cult?

NOTE TO ALL POSTERS WHO READ MY REVIEWS:
Because of my life and work, I will now just do 2-3 reviews of comics that I care about instead of doing all from my review title list. This has to be the case. sorry if a title that you like my opinion on isn't what I review on that week.

[$5 Milkshake]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/15851278838.16.GIF



Man, I love that Champions lineup. That was fun times.

am I the only one that cant picture the magneto that showed up in this issue like the one we have seen in excalibur and legacy?

LOL I can't tell if you're making a joke or not!

[Dagger]

Man, I love that Champions lineup. That was fun times.
You just love it because it was such a sausage fest.

[LawGiver]

To me, Uncanny X-Men #500 & the other previous Ed Brubaker Uncanny X-Men stories is nothing but decompression for the sake TPB; unfortunately, Brubaker forgot to tell a story in the comic book.

You can't be serious? No story? Did you bother reading this issue? If you did, you can't say, with any hope of proving yourself as a somewhat intelligent being, that there wasn't any story in this. It was overloaded with plot.

[jarrod]

Y'know, the more I think about, the more it seems like this really should've been a "payoff" issue to the arc proceeding it. I think things would've been better had Fraction been immediately brought in after MX, and the DWS arc overhauled to lead into this issue more directly. As is the DWS arc felt like it was mainly just treading water until we got to 500, where as it could've served as credible build up and given us a combination of some resolution and new status quo here, and they still could've seeded some future subplots. As is, 500 was mostly all basically setup itself, bar the forced establishment for the "historic move to San Fran" that was already done better in Astonishing 25 anyway.

Looking back, I really think flow and progression's been Brubaker's biggest problem on Uncanny... these things just don't seem well planned enough, in each arc we seem to get immediate changes out of nowhere initially and meandering follow up through the duration. It's very jolting upfront, very boring to actually read after the first issue and very unsatisfying all around.

[super_wolverine_man]

uncanny x-men was an interesting issue, to say the least. I mean it was a relief from the hippie, storylines that preceded it. it was filled with action, suprisises, and a great plot. it was a good way to celebrate 500 issues of the x-men.

However, a good way not a great way, with such a monumental event such as this one i would have expected it to be one of if not the greatest x-men issue of all time. When i finished reading it was like "ok that's good" and went about my bussiness, that's not the kind of reaction i was hoping for.

There were plenty of things that could have made this story from a good one to a great one. my main beef with it was how they used magneto. sure it was a breath of fresh air, to finally see magneto again. However, that was all ruined when it was revealed that Magneto's powers were being supplied, by machines. This in my mind was a slap in the face, to one of the greatest villians of all-time. Also, it made me HATE!! house of M, even more so.

Finally, the awful story line that came before it, dimmed the greatness of what should have been a gigantic celebration of 500 issues of the uncanny x-men.

[DDM]

You can't be serious? No story? Did you bother reading this issue? If you did, you can't say, with any hope of proving yourself as a somewhat intelligent being, that there wasn't any story in this. It was overloaded with plot.

Emma & Scott spent four issues walking down a sidewalk. The "story" is nonexistent. It could have happened in two issues or maybe one instead of four.

Uncanny X-Men #500 has too many contradictions which pulls the reader out of the attempted story.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Blaaaaaaaaaah Blaaaaaaaaaah Blaaaaaaaaaah Blaaaaaaaah.
Yeah, I went there

[jester1436]

Emma & Scott spent four issues walking down a sidewalk. The "story" is nonexistent. It could have happened in two issues or maybe one instead of four.

Uncanny X-Men #500 has too many contradictions which pulls the reader out of the attempted story.


What relevancy does your first paragraph have in relationship to the actual issue? No one is talking about Emma and Scott's long walk, which strangely enough coincided with a story featuring Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Colossus at the same time. It's misleading and hyperbolic of you.

And your slight of hand critique of the issue itself seems rather hollow, "too many contradictions"? What?

[Dagger]

What relevancy does your first paragraph have in relationship to the actual issue? No one is talking about Emma and Scott's long walk, which strangely enough coincided with a story featuring Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Colossus at the same time. It's misleading and hyperbolic of you.

And your slight of hand critique of the issue itself seems rather hollow, "too many contradictions"? What?
Exactly. I'm not seeing what contradictions he's talking about. Maybe he'd like to enlighten the rest of us.

[darknessatnoon]

Exactly. I'm not seeing what contradictions he's talking about. Maybe he'd like to enlighten the rest of us.

It's Uncanny X-Men, but CC isn't writing. Contradiction! Q.E.D.

[Dagger]

It's Uncanny X-Men, but CC isn't writing. Contradiction! Q.E.D.
How could I forget such a HUGE contradiction??? I have been educated on the error of my ways!