Uncanny X-Men #500 Review and Spoilers

[Pixie_Solanas]

My problem is that they don't look kosher and they don't tell the story.

As I said above...there's a section of the book that's supposed to be them touring the new HQ. That wouldn't be there for the "mayor's" benefit, but the readers'. Yet, We get a 2 page spread of an empty room with scaffolding and workmen.
We're told "what a great view!" and we're shown the window the characters are looking out of...not the view...

WTF, i believe, is the expression teh kewl kidz are using.

The upcoming cover with the white queen playing card...has Land ever seen a playing card? He pastes too incompatable pictures opposite each other and calls it good. That's not what a card looks like. Do a bit of work!

I'm liking the playing card cover. A bit of creative license, for sure.

And as far as the mis-steps noted above, as long as he doesn't put Emma in floppy ankle boots, we are kosher.

[lockerogue]

Disappointed that Karma couldn't make it into the issue. I wonder how many she's slept with since she's been in SF? I must find out this answer.

[claimtosubclaim]

This was kinda boring especially for a huge anniversary issue like #500. :(

The ending did get me interested in the next issue though.

Also was it just me or was Scott's dialogue and Warren's as well kinda off or a little too upbeat? "suck it!" ?

I thought Warren was way off actually... He hasn't acted or spoken like this in 10 years. He grew up from being the billionaire playboy a *long* time ago, and it's kind of sad to see him degenerate into that again. And what's up with him saying words like "darling?" I already thought it was weird when Scott and Emma started saying it to each other 5 times per issue, but jeez this is Warren here.

Needless to say, the X-Men moving to SF has had a profound impact on their personalities and philosophies. All of a sudden, Emma is concerned about environmental safety (the prius), Scott's dialogue is more off-kilter than its ever been ("Suck it!" "So f***ing angry."), Emma asks Scott if he's developing a sense of humor when he's been quietly cracking jokes since the 80s (not coincidentally, everybody's response was also "Is Scott Summers developing a sense of humor?")

Now I'm not so happy that they've turned my home into a big stereotyped caricature. The writing couldn't have been any less subtle. At least the "hippies" arc was lighthearted fun, and everyone acting like a hippy was due to telepathic tampering. I don't think they can explain the #500 characterization though. I don't want to be too negative, so I'll admit that Emma, Beast and Logan were mostly in-character, as was Cannonball for the two panels he was in.

[$5 Milkshake]

I thought it was pretty good, it definitely had a "classic" feel to it, which I actually kinda liked.

As for the art, it had it's moments. The panel where Warren first appears, however, was NOT one of them. That is thhe UGLIEST drawing of Angel ever created! On a whole though, Land wasnt too bad. I did prefer the Dodson art, I thought it felt much more comfortable and in synch with the story vibe.

What was everybody's thoughts on how Magneto was handled?

HAW HAW

[Joe Franklin]

As long as the Adam Hughes clone Terry Dodson is drawing for Uncanny, I'm buying it. I want Adam Hughes on Uncanny so bad, but since Dodson draws similar to him, I'm happy for now.:smile:

[Scavenger]

I'm liking the playing card cover. A bit of creative license, for sure.
.

If he made their torso's meet, I'd be ok with it.

It's composition 101. He failed:evilangry:

As long as the Adam Hughes clone Terry Dodson is drawing for Uncanny, I'm buying it. I want Adam Hughes on Uncanny so bad, but since Dodson draws similar to him, I'm happy for now.:smile:


They should get Matt Haley to tag team with Dodson. He's another AH! clone.

[Hi-Fi]

WTF was up with Angel's shoulders when he first appears? Land's art was an ugly mess.

[$5 Milkshake]

WTF was up with Angel's shoulders when he first appears? Land's art was an ugly mess.

That's what I just said!

It's ridiculous, I think he was tracing Warren from some magazine article on carnival freakshows.

[KiplingKat]

Just an FYI, they are putting the covers out in poster form. I picked up the Ross cover last week (might have that one framed), and my LCBS had the Land cover this week.

[Waterlily]

I thought it was pretty good, it definitely had a "classic" feel to it, which I actually kinda liked.

As for the art, it had it's moments. The panel where Warren first appears, however, was NOT one of them. That is thhe UGLIEST drawing of Angel ever created! On a whole though, Land wasnt too bad. I did prefer the Dodson art, I thought it felt much more comfortable and in synch with the story vibe.

What was everybody's thoughts on how Magneto was handled?

HAW HAW

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Felix_Cat-Haha.svg/92px-Felix_Cat-Haha.svg.png

...

*Sobs*

[KiplingKat]

I just wish they could have thought of another way to do all of that, without writing him like a Silver Age villain.

I mean, Gawd knows I could.

And who would Magneto hold a grudge against? The X-Men are not responsible for House of M, his children are. And he himself is indirectly responsible for M-Day.

[DDM]

I knew Magneto would keep the grudge from the end of House of M but like Brian pointed out, he put himself on the line to try to reinstate mutantkind by usage of the High Evolutionary. It was a necessary move and I think the X-event of 2009 is probably tied to it. Will probably get sporadic updates on what Magneto and High Evolutionary are doing. Like Nick Lowe said this past week, Magneto is tied to the entire X-line and it would be glorious if he's the one responsible for repowering mutantkind as a whole.

With all of Magneto's knowledge from other alien technology & given he is a master of several advance form of mechanics himself, why would Magneto need to seek out the High Evolutionary? Yet another inconsistent, out-of-character boondoggle.

Why are other writers yearning to write Silver Age Magneto??? :mad:

[claimtosubclaim]

I will give you this, KiplingKat, you're a much more reasonable Magneto fan than 'Erik Lehnsherr' ever was. I personally agree that this was not the best manner in which to bring Magneto back. Chris Yost and Mike Carey both did admirable jobs hinting at who he was now, so it's too bad they don't have dibs on him. Then again, they're both relegated to writing what are essentially satellite x-titles, so they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity.

[$5 Milkshake]

I will give you this, KiplingKat, you're a much more reasonable Magneto fan than 'Erik Lehnsherr' ever was. I personally agree that this was not the best manner in which to bring Magneto back. Chris Yost and Mike Carey both did admirable jobs hinting at who he was now, so it's too bad they don't have dibs on him. Then again, they're both relegated to writing what are essentially satellite x-titles, so they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity.

I purposefully didn't get into my thoughts on Magneto when I gave my opinion on the issue, but yeah...

Carey's Magneto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brubaker's Magneto

[KiplingKat]

I will give you this, KiplingKat, you're a much more reasonable Magneto fan than 'Erik Lehnsherr' ever was. I personally agree that this was not the best manner in which to bring Magneto back. Chris Yost and Mike Carey both did admirable jobs hinting at who he was now, so it's too bad they don't have dibs on him. Then again, they're both relegated to writing what are essentially satellite x-titles, so they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity.

Thank you. :smile:

Yeah, there is a way to bring Magneto back that would accomplish all the same things in the story, but would not have him acting like a lunatic. BruFact wanted to create a "Old Timey X-Men vs. Magneto & Sentinels fight", and ignored 8 years of character continuity, not to mention common sense and logic, to do so.

Carey did a good a very job portraying Magneto in Legacy, though everyone seems to be wanting to duck with dealing with Magneto's emotional fall out from M-Day. Bendis came close, but he only hinted at it. But Carey's characterization of Magneto was good. It was in line with Claremont's Magneto of Excalibur Vol. 3 and Bendis Magneto of House of M/New Avengers #20, and Hine's Magneto of Son of M.

Plus he showed that Magneto does not have to be a this grandstanding crazy, or even powered, to be bad-ass. :wink:

[KiplingKat]

That was interesting. He's a genius in physics and technolgy. He's a geneticist himself and that wasn't highlighted but let's calm down on the Silver Age perception. He used brash methods to distract the X-Men but his goal seems as noble as ever...the reinstatement of mutantkind in general.

He acted exactly the way he did in Eve of Destruction which was Lobdell trying to write a Silver Age Magneto. You can read Eve of Destruction and this issue, and in terms of character it is like nothing has happened in the intervening period.

There were multiple way that the same story objectives could have been achieved (as nonsensical as they are) without writing Magneto like a sadistic grandstanding two dimensional "bad guy". His goals have always been noble, the question was how ruthless he has been in pursuit of them.

And he by-passed this kind of ruthlessness and this kind of behavior long ago.

He's not responsible for nothing. Wanda and PIetro are. She went insane and blamed him but that's her problem that she needs to work on. Not him. He tried to save her from certain death and she repaid him with anger and trying to kill an entire race.

He killed her brother, which set her off. He isnt *the* responsible party, but he created the situation which caused the event.

And in any case, having a grudge against his children doesn't explain why he would be taking it out on the X-Men.

[Omega Alpha]

With all of Magneto's knowledge from other alien technology & given he is a master of several advance form of mechanics himself, why would Magneto need to seek out the High Evolutionary?

It may have something to do with the fact that the High Evolutionary understands more about genetics more than everyone else?

And, again people, Magneto wasn't a Silver Age lunatic on this one. He was pretending to be one while fighting the X-men to keep them distracted.

[DDM]

It may have something to do with the fact that the High Evolutionary understands more about genetics more than everyone else?
And, again people, Magneto wasn't a Silver Age lunatic on this one. He was pretending to be one while fighting the X-men to keep them distracted.

Magneto has created the Savage Land Mutates all by himself (among other things); therefore, I think he can use his own technology without any help. If written correctly, Magneto would seek out Charles Xavier perhaps (in Magneto's post-Silver Age persona), but not the High Evolutionary...

The High Evolutionary is concerned with other things besides the plight of mutants.

[claimtosubclaim]

So he had to pretend to be a lunatic. Just fighting them while being sane isn't considered a distraction? Magneto acting like an angry old douche would just make the X-Men more okay with *accidentally* killing him; and in a world where Cyclops gives the green light to a killing squad, it just became even more dangerous to act crazy in front of the X-Men.

I did however like Magneto's big "f*** you" to Cyke right before he disappeared.

[KiplingKat]

It may have something to do with the fact that the High Evolutionary understands more about genetics more than everyone else?

And, again people, Magneto wasn't a Silver Age lunatic on this one. He was pretending to be one while fighting the X-men to keep them distracted.

But why would he have to?

A. If he is working for the repowering of Mutant kind, wouldn't the X-Men be on his side. The Beast approached Wyndham in Endangered species after all. Why would they need to distract the X-men.

B. Why would Magneto need to act like this to distract the X-Men?

C. Why wouldn't Magneto simply destroy the Sentinels on sight and go after the X-men himself?

[KiplingKat]

I will say this..I skimmed over the last several pages and I find it amusing how the average poster says he's crazy even though he's the only being on the planet doing anything about the current stage of mutantkind right now. Everyone was thinking that Wanda was either gonna undo what she did or there would be one playing savior and who else could that be but Magneto. There is no one more passionate and more dedicated to the cause of mutant protection and even though they haven't had much dialogue from him since this all happened in 2005, it was kind of a common sense understanding that THIS has to have been his ultimate goal. It was just a case of when writers like Brubaker and Carey would go away from the half plots and shaky storylines to get to this point.

Because he doesn't need to act the way he did in this issue to work towards that goal.

He doesn't even need to be the X-Men's enemy to work towards that goal.

In Eve of Destruction, there was a Charles Xavier put on a X cross in the middle of Madga Square and new X-Men being ripped in half by a blink of Magneto's eye. I saw nothing close to that in this issue nor have I seen anything on that level since it happened in 2001.

He tortured Colossus, the only X-Men to come over to Magneto's side and the man who personally cared for Magneto while he was in a vegetative state.

And he killed her brother because her brother set him up and tried to get the heroes to kill him. It was eye for eye. Kill or be killed. Pietro had it coming and Wanda chose to side with the guy who set the whole thing in motion and blame a father who has done nothing but reach out to her for the last 20 years.

He killed Pietro because he was pissed off. It was not kill or be killed. Magneto was not under threat. He had every single hero in that arena wrapped up. The fight was over. He was just utterly enraged because his son manipulated him, which is a big hot trigger for Magneto. Every time someone has manipulated him, it has sent Magneto over the edge. Wether or not Pietro had it coming is beside the point, Magneto killed him because he was pissed off.

Magneto was the victim in House of M, up until the moment he killed Pietro. Then he became part of the problem. For whatever reason he killed Pietro, that is what prompted Wanda to try to wipe out mutant kind in retaliation.

And as a control freak, Magneto would feel partially responsible for M-Day, if for no other reason than his own children did it.

[KiplingKat]

Magneto has created the Savage Land Mutates all by himself (among other things); therefore, I think he can use his own technology without any help. If written correctly, Magneto would seek out Charles Xavier perhaps (in Magneto's post-Silver Age persona), but not the High Evolutionary...

The High Evolutionary is concerned with other things besides the plight of mutants.

Yeah, someone else on another board commented that it would be unlikely H.E. would work with Mags. I'm not familiar enough with the character of the H.E. to say.

[darknessatnoon]

A. If he is working for the repowering of Mutant kind, wouldn't the X-Men be on his side.

No. The X-Men hate his guts by now. Complain all you want that it was Xorn who killed Jean or Wanda/Pietro who created House of M, they still don't care. They've had it with him (as have I -- as a Senyaka fan), and want him dead. I think Cyclops really meant it when he said "Suck it." Admittedly, Storm's little "tyrant" outburst was somewhat ironic given who she's married to.

[darknessatnoon]

Yeah, someone else on another board commented that it would be unlikely H.E. would work with Mags. I'm not familiar enough with the character of the H.E. to say.

They are not working together. High Evolutionary doesn't work with people. Magneto works for him.

[KiplingKat]

No. The X-Men hate his guts by now. Complain all you want that it was Xorn who killed Jean or Wanda/Pietro who created House of M, they still don't care. They've had it with him (as have I -- as a Senyaka fan), and want him dead. I think Cyclops really meant it when he said "Suck it." Admittedly, Storm's little "tyrant" outburst was somewhat ironic given who she's married to.

I think if Magneto showed up with the High Evolutionary in tow, they might sit still for a moment to listen.

At least Hank would make them listen, since he was the he who applied to the H.E. for help in Endangered Species.

[The Black Guardian]

KiplingKat, you are 100% correct!

What a horrible issue. Glad I'm still not paying for this kind of rubbish.

[darknessatnoon]

I think if Magneto showed up with the High Evolutionary in tow, they might sit still for a moment to listen.

At least Hank would make them listen, since he was the he who applied to the H.E. for help in Endangered Species.

The High Evolutionary de-powered all mutants in X-Men 99. They don't like him much either. He's basically another weirdo menace who mutates spiders and cows into people as far as they are concerned -- just a much less personally annoying one to them.

[MasterOdin]

Wow, I liked the issue a lot better than most around here. At least it seems that way. I took the issue for what it is... a set up issue. Viewed that way, I really have no problem with the lack of substance. Magneto's characterization didn't bother me either. I know there are a lot of big fans of his around here, but I took it as he was playing a role. He really didn't want to be that way. It was a means to an end.

[KiplingKat]

It's just the first step and the storyline will develop. Magneto is a genius without peer. There's always more to what he's doing than how it first appears.

And he does have to be the X-Men's enemy...they tried to humilate him and discard him in House of M #8 even though he was the biggest victim of the whole storyline.

Well, up until the end, yes.

And as I have said before, between the Genoshan Massacre and House of M/M-Day, Magneto was utterly ripped apart in an "Avengers Disassembled" kind of way. Ripped down to his emotional core, further than he ever had been since the night Anya died.

Now if almost killing Kitty Pryde can make this man do a 180, why does being a failure as a mutant leader, failure as a father, and the indirect cause of a mutant genocide have no effect on the character? Indeed, why is he suddenly mowing backwards?

He didn't torture. He just slapped him around a little bit

Colssus: Aaaaagh!
Magneto: Oh, does it hurt?

That's torture.

and whatever part of Colossus that was pro Magneto died at the end of House of M with him letting Wolverine mount Magneto like he was the greatest threat on earth.

Wait, any good will between Magneto and Colossus was undone by...Wolverine?

And he killed Pietro because he set him up. He tried to get the heroes to murder Magneto to keep Wanda safe. That was his plan.

Uhm, there is actually no eividence that Pietro thought the Heroes would figure out what happened, let alone try to kill his father.

That's why he was portrayed as the villian ever since until that X-Factor special recently. Spider-Man sided with Magneto as did the non-X-Men heroes. Quicksilver was the cause and effect of the whole fiasco. You don't cross Magneto and get away with it. That goes for any version(Age of Apocalypse hero, New Mutants Teacher, Leader of the Acolytes, etc). Pietro had it coming and that wasn't a problem. That was necessary. Wanda snapped and doomed mutantkind. Even ranted about Magneto choosing mutantkind over her childhood, which makes no sense in the least since Magneto didn't know of Wanda during that timeframe.

Just because Pietro was the cause, that does not mean Magneto is blameless in that incident. It was Pietro's murder that made Wanda snap and try to erase mutants from the face of the earth as a means of getting back at her father.

[Omega Alpha]

But why would he have to?

A. If he is working for the repowering of Mutant kind, wouldn't the X-Men be on his side. The Beast approached Wyndham in Endangered species after all. Why would they need to distract the X-men.

While Beast approached the Evolutionary in ES, look at the people that were on the same "category". It was a desperate action for Hank to try to work with (or, should be said, for) someone on his level. And Mags is likely to be desperate as well (though he would have less morality problems, of course). If someone is going to find a fast and workable sollution, is the High Evolutionary. The question, and I'm sure it's a plot point, is, if he achieves the goal, what price Magneto and mankind will have to pay?


B. Why would Magneto need to act like this to distract the X-Men?

C. Why wouldn't Magneto simply destroy the Sentinels on sight and go after the X-men himself?

B: Sure, just Mags is a distraction in his own right, but him behaving like a mad man is even more, the kind that makes X-men go "WTF?"

C: I suppose the Sentinels could be useful, and add more to his act.

Magneto works for no one. He walks out of such situations where one trys to assert authority. HE knows this and that's why he's working on Magneto's behalf.

High Evolutionary could squash Magneto like he was a bug if he wanted to (yeah, he's on that category). Mags works for him or simply not.

[Scavenger]

With all of Magneto's knowledge from other alien technology & given he is a master of several advance form of mechanics himself, why would Magneto need to seek out the High Evolutionary?

Well..it's the High @!##!@#!@en Evolutionary. Forget the silly armor...he's super way intelligent buff (well past Richards or Doom in this kind of thing).

[Pixie_Solanas]

Wow, I liked the issue a lot better than most around here. At least it seems that way. I took the issue for what it is... a set up issue. Viewed that way, I really have no problem with the lack of substance. Magneto's characterization didn't bother me either. I know there are a lot of big fans of his around here, but I took it as he was playing a role. He really didn't want to be that way. It was a means to an end.

Who uses #500 (or any centennial issue) as a set-up?

What in blue blazes were all the issues since Messiah Complex ended supposed to be?

[Hi-Fi]

Best part:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5819/rogue500qx7.jpg

I know in my heart that it WAS the real Rogue.

[KiplingKat]

While Beast approached the Evolutionary in ES, look at the people that were on the same "category". It was a desperate action for Hank to try to work with (or, should be said, for) someone on his level. And Mags is likely to be desperate as well (though he would have less morality problems, of course). If someone is going to find a fast and workable sollution, is the High Evolutionary. The question, and I'm sure it's a plot point, is, if he achieves the goal, what price Magneto and mankind will have to pay?

Yeah, but that doesn't mean they have to treat the X-Men as enemies. They didn't even give the X-men a chance, they just assumed that the X-Men would stand in their way.

B: Sure, just Mags is a distraction in his own right, but him behaving like a mad man is even more, the kind that makes X-men go "WTF?"

Just like me.

C: I suppose the Sentinels could be useful, and add more to his act.

The Sentinel destroyed Genosha, massacring 16 million people who had placed themselves under Magneto's protection.

His reaction to them should be the same if Hitler were placed in front of him. He isn't going to use Hitler for anything, he simply going to kill him.

[$5 Milkshake]

Best part:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5819/rogue500qx7.jpg

I know in my heart that it WAS the real Rogue.

LOL I barely believe that's a real drawing, let alone the real Rogue.

[MasterOdin]

Who uses #500 (or any centennial issue) as a set-up?

What in blue blazes were all the issues since Messiah Complex ended supposed to be?

It's for people like me. I keep up with the X-books on a semi-regular basis, but I picked up this issue because it was issue #500. And I might be mistaken, this was supposed to be about when they first move to SF? That certainly seems like a new start to me.

As far as what happened after MC, I agree with you there. I thought that was all poorly executed. It almost seems like the X-editors have something planned for the future and had to stretch things out a bit. It would have been better to me if they had MC end an issue or two before Uncanny #500.

[Scavenger]

It will never be portrayed like that. High Evolutionary got embarassed by Mr. Sinister in 2000. Magneto is the key point to the ENTIRE X-Line. Nick Lowe himself just SAID it last week. High Evolutionary has no such roles. Him even getting this much discussion is because he's involved in a Magneto storyline.

Well, it likely will get portrayed that way, with Mageto turning on him or something...
storywise, Magneto is the focal character. In Universe, though, HE is far smarter and more powerful.

He's also more boring.

[Hi-Fi]

LOL I barely believe that's a real drawing, let alone the real Rogue.
I love how she waves!

She sure likes her liquor!

[$5 Milkshake]

I love how she waves!

She sure likes her liquor!

That's our girl!

On further inspection, I think that's Jessica Alba as Rogue..

[RolandJP]

I liked the issue!! And I have warmed to the new direction. Matt fraction and Brubaker make a great team. Chris Yost has raised his writing game to a whole new level.. X-force being, fresh and exciting. PAD is PAD! Guggs is getting his feel for the X-universe--Im psyched!

[KiplingKat]

The end of House of M hurt him but nothing "twisted his soul" more than when his first daughter died in the fashion she did.

You and I have differing opinions on the exact emotional impacts in that event.

But that still does not explain why the near death of Kitty Pryde had such a profound impact on him, and Genoshan Massacre/M-Day did not.

That's not torture. Just asking his enemy how he's feeling to be attacked when he's not prepared..an honor he didn't get 3 years ago while Cyclops was ranting and raving demands by using his optic beams.;

Uhm, from the expression in Magneto eyes, I don't think "concern" was the emotion he was feeling.

Pietro set the whole thing up. He was the mastermind. How can one dare say he didn't know they were coming for him? He made Magneto the scapegoat and as soon as he figured it out after the Layla confrontation, Pietro turned on him with ease, as he always planned to. He was the same traitorous Pietro Maximoff he always was.

Uh..I think you may need to re-read the series. Peitro got Wanda to remake the world in a panic. I don't think he had anything in mind beyond saving his sister and making everyone happy enough they wouldn't question it.

Magneto came away from meeting Layla and attacked Pietro. The only way Pietro "turned" on him was to point out that the Avengers/X-Men were going to kill Wanda. He didn't have the opportunity to say or do anything beyond that because Magneto promptly beat him to death.

Wanda chose to react that way.

Well, her father had just killed the only constant in her life.

It not like doing that was going to make Wanda calm and happy.

It's not Magneto's fault she has mental issues that didn't correctly get dianosed and addressed. She was coddled by a mad brother and that led to the whole thing.

She was coddled by everyone around her...

But while Magneto did try to help her in Exaclibur Vol. 3, in the sincerest way possible, and unlike what Wanda said in House of M, he did not even meet the twins until they were well into their teens and did not know they were his until they were in their twenties, Magneto had also manipulated her rather mercilessly in the past. Both when she was in the Brotherhood, and her early days in the Avengers.

I'm not saying the twins were blameless in that relationship, far from it. But Magneto was far from innocent.

His murder of Pietro did set her off.

As much as you or I may want to excuse him of this blame that incident, Magneto is a control freak.

And one of the disadvantages of being a control freak is you feel responsible for everything, whether you are nor not. So whether or not he is responsible, he would certainly feel responsible. If for no other reason than it was his children that did it.

[darknessatnoon]

I liked the issue!! And I have warmed to the new direction. Matt fraction and Brubaker make a great team. Chris Yost has raised his writing game to a whole new level.. X-force being, fresh and exciting. PAD is PAD! Guggs is getting his feel for the X-universe--Im psyched!

That's the sanest response to the issue so far in this thread.

[KiplingKat]

You see, I suspect it's all leading to one ending and one ending alone: Magneto being the mutant responsible for repowering mutantkind. Quicksilver tried and he failed. Apocalypse tried and he failed. Sinister and Exodus tried and they failed. Cyclops is obsessed with creating killer squads to take out the "bad guys". He gave the only hope the X-teams had to resolve the ordeal to Cable and that was a colossal waste of time. Magneto is the greatest hope left and now more than ever, I'm sure that's what the X-writers were leading to with him all this time. It's gonna be beautiful once everyone has to acknowledge Magneto as the legitimate savior of mutantkind. Not just because of the Acolytes sentiments but in actuality.

There is another alternative. One that has quietly been in play since M-Day.

X-Factor.

In the very first issue of X-factor, it was said that X-Factor held the key to re-powering mutant kind. And I think that, if he is allowed, PAD may be quietly building towards that.

And as much as I love the Magneto as a character, I think it would be pretty fun to see the Red Headed Step-Child of the X-Verse be the savior of them all. :wink:

[KiplingKat]

Personally killing a child is detestable. Magneto has always reacted strongly to children being harmed. Even human ones or have you forgotten a "A Fire in the Night"? He first was satisified with knowing that those trapped in that hotel weren't mutants and it wasn't his concern but then when he thought of his own plight and trama in a similar instance, he couldn't let that mother and her daughter die. He may be a "terrorist" to the human eye but he couldn't allow himself to be an outright monster.

How many children died in the Genoshan Massacre?

How many kids died because of M-day?

All an act. A plan. He didn't come to kill anyone.

Really, that's why he set mutant killing robots on them? He tortured Peter, he endangered the lives of a group of the few remaining mutants. And he did it while acting like...well, "a douche" as someone put so eloquently. Rabid, over the top, more factionalist than he has been in decades...he did not have to be that way to accomplish the goals of "distracting the X-Men."

Reread it? I'll pass. Pietro was the culprit. There is no denying this or running from this fact. Magneto was the victim. Spider-Man had already vowed death on who was responsible so what did you think Magneto's reaction was gonna be? He's not really close with Pietro as it is and it's not the first time he's tried to kill Magneto to save his own skin.

Actually, Spider Man knows who is responsible and saved Pietro when Pietro tried to commit suicide in Son of M.

Magneto was the victim, up until he beat his own son to death.

And whether or not you think he had the right to do that, there is no running from the fact that that act set Wanda off.

Pietro remade the world without Magneto's first daughter and coldly left out Luna. He was beyond reasonable at that point. He was gonna pay one way or another. There was no getting out of it.

That was..odd. As was the absence of Magda and Anya. But was that Pietro, or was that Wanda?

Wanda brought Pietro back and still she doomed mutantkind for reasons beyond comprehension.

They were very comprehensible and made quite clear: She did it to get back at Daddy. She had the most important things in her life taken from her, culminating in Magneto trying to take the only emotional constant in her life: Her Brohter. She took away the most important thing in his in revenge.

[$5 Milkshake]

There is another alternative. One that has quietly been in play since M-Day.

X-Factor.

In the very first issue of X-factor, it was said that X-Factor held the key to re-powering mutant kind. And I think that, if he is allowed, PAD may be quietly building towards that.

I assumed that meant Pietro and the crystals, and now that's been proven to be false hope.

[Alphaxman]

I’m kinda late to the party but I was not impressed with this issue. But I do agree with Erik. The X-Men acted like armatures. And when could Angel disarm a Sentinel by himself? And why didn’t he answer Emma. But I can’t blame him. I would do my best to ignore her too.

I don’t like this whole new direction the X-titles are going though right now only because each book seem to be follow completely different paths. The X-Men are all happy-go-lucky in Uncanny but Cyclops will have you killed if you get in his way over in X-Force. And I do mean his because I don’t think the other X-Men that are not on X-Force realize what old One Eyes is doing. But I’m in love with X-Force right now.

And here is Sam flying to save the day and doesn’t mention that some old students of their tried to kill him and his best friends. It would have been better if he didn’t show up.

And Storm had the worst portrayal in fifteen years. All she did was fly around hurling Lightning at Magneto knowing that old trick never worked on him and then doing recon. She didn’t have one opinion this whole issue.

Kurt was even worst then Storm. It was all about Scott and Emma.

Land art was OK but I did see recyoled tracing here and there. Dodson was a lot better but he made the Dream Celestial too small. These things should be as tall as mountains.

Story 4
Art (Land) 7; (Dodson) 8

[KiplingKat]

I assumed that meant Pietro and the crystals, and now that's been proven to be false hope.

No. It was something to do with Siryn. Remember, Tryp tried to kidnap/murder her.

And now she's preggers.

[DeadXMan]

Logan said it best:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1179/26112067pq8.png

and to nick pick
Mark one sentinels were 10 ft high

those are mark III

[darknessatnoon]

For Christopher. Sexy...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/legs.jpg

Apotemnophilia.

[KiplingKat]

The X-Men acted like armatures.

As someone in the LCBS said this afternoon, "What the F&*$ was the point of the Danger room if they are not going to use tactics?"

Compare this X-Men vs. Magneto fight to the X-Men vs. Magneto fight in Uncanny #113. Cyclops should be mortified.

[DeadXMan]

For Christopher. Sexy...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/legs.jpg

Apotemnophilia.

Oh, God.

Please Send Jack Kirby & Dave Cockrum down to kick Land's ass.

[darknessatnoon]

Oh, God.

Please Send Jack Kirby & Dave Cockrum down to kick Land's ass.

I actually like the flair he gives her hands. On the other hand, it would have killed him to draw a foot somewhere behind her.

[worstblogever]

I actually like the flair he gives her hands. On the other hand, it would have killed him to draw a foot somewhere behind her.

No kiddin'. She's "Queen Stumpy of Wakanda".

[frog]

Her legs! What happened to Storm's legs?!?

[frog]

No kiddin'. She's "Queen Stumpy of Wakanda".

You'd think BP could have afforded to buy her some prosthetics.

[KiplingKat]

That brings to question another inquiry: Is Storm the tallest X-woman in history?

She's 5' 11". Unless you want to count the time Polaris' secondary mutation kicked in, I think that makes her the tallest X-Chick.

Can't think of anyone taller.

[Mitsaso]

I LOVED LOVED LOVED IT!

Issue #500 just screamed "FRESH!" to me!
Exceptionally happy and worshipped/accepted X-Men? Check!
The "Mutant Kitsch" art concept made me LOL!

DAZZLER IS BACK!artwise. Making a comeback in her career is even more important than actually showing up in a book IMHO!

Didn't mind Land's pornfaces, LOVED the Dodsons! Gimme a Dodson Iceman cameo with lots of booty and bulgilicious grotch! The concept with the movie director intrigues me... as does the HE/Mags team-up with Erik being the High Evolutionary's little betch!

Who cares about power-wise nitpicking? This is the most high-concept X-Men we've seen since Morrison's first arcs! I'm already seeing a pop culture status quo for SanFran based X-Men and I love seeing them happy and confident for once!

Other notes;
The SF mayor SO WANTS to bang Warren!! What a hoe!
Emma's "banal" reaction at the Sentinel Art Show news..!
People dressing up as X-Men in a gala party! That was the real homage IMO.
Mags did seem a little "off" but it makes sense if we take into account what his new role is. He's a "has-been" who is now presented with a chance to go back to glory for him and mutantkind, and he HAS FUN when given the chance to fight the X-Men once more, like the old times, and without caring much for the result cuz he's just a red herring. Hence the Silver Agey behavior! He just tries to diss Cyke and team and only reveals some real sentiment and anger once he loses the battle (btw, Immortal Invulnerable Cannonball TOTALLY PWNS suit-powered Mags, don't pretend it doesnt make sense!)


In general, I found the issue awesome, not in the quality it had by itself, but more in the sense of the new, fresh ideas it presents and the new perspectives we are going to see the X-Men through!:biggrin:

[$5 Milkshake]

No. It was something to do with Siryn. Remember, Tryp tried to kidnap/murder her.

And now she's preggers.

Ah, ok. I started in on X-Factor late.

[darknessatnoon]

DAZZLER IS BACK!artwise. Making a comeback in her career is even more important than actually showing up in a book IMHO!


And this was clearly a shout-out to the CBR Dazzler Gays.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/CBRGAYS.jpg

[Shade101]

You'd think BP could have afforded to buy her some prosthetics.

LOL

She's not the tallest X-Woman anymore...

[worstblogever]

Reading it again...when the High Evolutionary speaks to Kingo Sunen and tells him, "continue to sleep your Eternal life away..."

He's one of the Eternals that Sprite made forget who they were, right? Any theories about which one?

On another note, the Trask family tree does, in fact, have a Simon Trask on it:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=8&fldAuto=338

But he's listed as deceased. But he did have a distaste for the idea of the Sentinels, and wanted to subvert mutants through media paranoia. Considering he touches the hand of the security guard working the velvet rope outside the Dazzler concert, and seems to transfer some sort of circuitry to him... is he going to be another human who's infected by Bastion with the Transmode Virus, like we've seen in X-Force? Is that what we were looking at? I remember an interview where they said the characters like Donald Pierce, Leper Queen, and Rev. Stryker wouldn't be the last brought back from the grave by Bastion...

Just food for thought.

[jester1436]

And this was clearly a shout-out to the CBR Dazzler Gays.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/CBRGAYS.jpg

OMG!

Pixie's best friend is Affinity! <3

[Maestro]

I love that the X-Men have their own city to rule. No more Avengers to butt in!

Armor should have been included

[Monty_Cristo]

i'm not a big fan of Magneto using technology to mimick his mutant abilities, already. but him turning to the High Evolutionary to achieve it is pretty lame. where's that intellect of his? why rely on a human for anything?

[david r]

I just read Brian Cronin's review of UNCANNY X-MEN #500! Wait a minute, this landmark issue is just a "Set-Up" issue? You are kidding, right?

[Maestro]

Set-up issues only introduce the characters. Here everyone is introduced and they fight Magneto.

[KiplingKat]

I just read Brian Cronin's review of UNCANNY X-MEN #500! Wait a minute, this landmark issue is just a "Set-Up" issue? You are kidding, right?

Well, that is the only way to read the issue and see it as "good", expecting it to be incomplete with many flaws.

[david r]

Well, that is the only way to read the issue and see it as "good", expecting it to be incomplete with many flaws.

What kind of flaws? Does this issue live up to a 500th issue celebration? Or more like just another issue of UNCANNY X-MEN to you?

[$5 Milkshake]

Well, that is the only way to read the issue and see it as "good", expecting it to be incomplete with many flaws.

I didn't expect that, and I thought it was "good".

Mostly.

They mostly come out at night. Mostly.

[KiplingKat]

What kind of flaws? Does this issue live up to a 500th issue celebration? Or more like just another issue of UNCANNY X-MEN to you?

It was just another issue of Brubaker's Uncanny X-Men, only drawn out. I know Faction is also in the credits, but he doesn't seem to have had much of an effect in this issue.

It does set up some new story-lines, but that is about all that can be said for it. The characterizations run from O.K. to really, really horrible, the dialog is horrendous at points, the fight choreography and pacing is atrocious, and the entire set-up that created the fight is...to me it reads as nonsensical, but at a more unbiased way to say it would be "there are a ton of plot holes in it".

I can go on for a page with errors and bad writing, but I won't subject the board to that again.

[Nite-Wing]

I don't want to say I was dissapointed so ill just say I'm underwhelmed.That being said.
My complaints and there are alot
storm wtf
angel wtf
Cyclops to me my x-men to every mutant left on the planet is stupid
I didn't see Iceman anywhere
Pixie going to nightclubs
The hellfire cult shouldn't they be rich,snobby and preppy
Cyclops not in control of his emotions
Magneto resorting to synthetic means to get mutant powers would never happen hes to smart for that.

I liked that this issue showed the city of san francisco as the new home of the X-men and thats the only thing I liked. I hope Fractions arc is alot better than this.

[Quinnhop]

I loved it.

[Deus ex Chris]

For Christopher. Sexy...
LOL

I guess African legs are the most difficult to draw!

[david r]

Underwhelmed? Uncanny X-Men #500?? Those words shouldn't connect.

Comparing this to Jim Lee's X-Men #1, how does it compare?

[Comet Man]

i'm not a big fan of Magneto using technology to mimick his mutant abilities, already. but him turning to the High Evolutionary to achieve it is pretty lame. where's that intellect of his? why rely on a human for anything?

Not even close to lame. High Evolutionary is no ordinary human, hell, he's pretty much a god. I'm not even going to get into the mind boggling stuff he's done in his long and illustrious Marvel career. It would take too long.

Anyway, I haven't bought an X-Men book in ages, and I mean ages. I picked this up today just because it was a landmark issue, and boy, was I so pleasantly surprised. I'm actually interested in the X-Men again. I actually care llike I did in the Cockrum and Byrne days.

I will be getting it from now on.

[KiplingKat]

Underwhelmed? Uncanny X-Men #500?? Those words shouldn't connect.

Comparing this to Jim Lee's X-Men #1, how does it compare?

Oh, compared to that? They aren't even on the same planet. Adjectiveless #1 out performs Uncanny #500 on so many levels...

[Toboe]

I really like the new status quo for the X-Men. Setting up a sort of embassy in a city that embraces them is quite cool. The alternative protest against mutants in the form an passé art instalation featuring Sentinels was a neat concept and a rest from the angry mobs. Emma's reaction to it is priceless.

But I was expecting way more from the story. It's just... meh. I dig that it was Cannonball who defeated Magneto, but the fact that he was shown only on that panel makes it feel like an extremely forced deus ex machina.

Artwise, I would have prefered the whole thing had been done by Dodson, his pages were beautiful. Greg Land was... his usual self.

And is it me or some dialogue keeps repeating itself sometimes? Magneto said "now then, where were we?" twice in one page for no particular reason. It seems like "predictable" and "banal" are the new it word for Emma and Magneto. I also remember Cyclops kept saying the same thing over and over in his discussion with Iron Man a few issues back. What the heck? At least the damn its are gone, in exchange for a few suck its (Loeb must have made an impression of sorts).

So it was entertaining, but I'm kinda dissapointed with the whole thing.

[Comet Man]

Artwise, I would have prefered the whole thing had been done by Dodson, his pages were beautiful. Greg Land was... his usual self.



Hmmm, I felt just the opposite.

[pariah-1972]

Thought this was pretty good even with the two rotating artists.
Thoughts.
I was expecting Magneto to be an illusion by either the celestial or lady mastermind.
or her sister (i get them confused)

Why is Magneto acting evil again when he was being nice in legacy?

Didn't Angel just get his wings torn off again in X-force?

And when did Emma get powerful enough to reach around the globe mentally without any help?

[Novaya Havoc]

Oh, compared to that? They aren't even on the same planet. Adjectiveless #1 out performs Uncanny #500 on so many levels...

Let's see.

While still a milestone issue, one is still #500 in an ongoing serial.

The other was a brand new #1 issue.

Srsly.

It maintained the serial, but set up an entirely new status quo. While a "MILESTONE" issue, it is -- at the end of the day -- still just another issue of the Uncanny X-Men.

C'mon.

[sneggz]

And when could Angel disarm a Sentinel by himself? And why didn’t he answer Emma. But I can’t blame him. I would do my best to ignore her too.

Warrens exact quote " I think after last months fiasco, im all done with freak flags for now"
And when he's flying from the sentinel, wires are in his hands. Archangel has like razor fingers. (or something, to lazy to bust out the issue)
As in (the way I read it) He can switch from Angel to Archangel.


Besides that, are Land and Dodson going to be rotating issues from now on? Or sharing books like this issue? If Land is gonna Photoshop I see no reason why I cant just download his issues.

[Pyro]

I can't remember what issue it was, but didn't someone say relatively recently that putting all the mutants in one place wasn't the greatest of ideas?

I also don't quite understand why Cyclops went from "X-Men, NO MORE!" to "Every mutant in the world is now an X-Man" so quickly. He's a flip-flopper.

[DeadXMan]

so they set up X-Corp after shutting them down
and instead of the mansion being an a safe haven they made all of San Fransisco

Why is Scott in command? he's making the same mistakes again.

And Mags using artificial means to replicate his power is beneath him and is that the best they can do?

So far that's 10 characters that they did it to.

so far they only ones that have been repower interestingly is Chuck being thrown into the Crystal and Pietro's being a mental block.

[KiplingKat]

Let's see.

While still a milestone issue, one is still #500 in an ongoing serial.

The other was a brand new #1 issue.

Srsly.

It maintained the serial, but set up an entirely new status quo. While a "MILESTONE" issue, it is -- at the end of the day -- still just another issue of the Uncanny X-Men.

C'mon.

I think the point that david r was trying to make was that, as Brain and some others have tried to claim #500 was a "set-up issue", even as a "set-up issue", it fails.

I agree that #500 is not a "set up" issue. But even if it is changing the status quo, despite the fact it has more to work with as a serial than a title that is starting out completely cold like Adjectiveless #1, it's still a lousy read.

It's a lousy read as a "set up issue", it's a lousy read as a "changing the status quo issue", it's a lousy read as a "milestone issue", it's a lousy read as a "regular issue".

It's just not good no matter what way you slice it.

[jmc247]

And Mags using artificial means to replicate his power is beneath him and is that the best they can do?


Polaris is machine powered today as well, the sooner that changes for both of them the better.

[drwho]

So is Dazzler still going to be coming to the x-title full time, or will we see lame things like this issue where they were walking out of her concert? Was that supposed to be Dazzler's big come back to the xbooks?Dazzler will be in the hood, but still in limbo. I dont know what is worse or better. Being somewhere unknown, or being in the same neighborhood as your old team mates and they dont give a damn about you.

[DeniseXfrost]

For Christopher. Sexy...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/legs.jpg

Apotemnophilia.
GOD LOL LOL
Why does Land never trace Storm's legs? Look at the pic above and the one panel during the fight where Storm created lightning- no legs!

[Deus ex Chris]

It's just not good no matter what way you slice it.
No matter how you slice it. Some of us enjoyed it, despite the flaws.

[KiplingKat]

No matter how you slice it. Some of us enjoyed it, despite the flaws.

And you are entitled to enjoy it.

Just as I am entitled to criticize it.

[pryde15]

LOL. Did anyone else notice how tight that costume is, on Storm's crotch?

[jester1436]

So is Dazzler still going to be coming to the x-title full time, or will we see lame things like this issue where they were walking out of her concert? Was that supposed to be Dazzler's big come back to the xbooks?Dazzler will be in the hood, but still in limbo. I dont know what is worse or better. Being somewhere unknown, or being in the same neighborhood as your old team mates and they dont give a damn about you.

It's long since been declared she actually debuts in the book in 501.

[Novaya Havoc]

And this was clearly a shout-out to the CBR Dazzler Gays.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/CBRGAYS.jpg

This is clearly me and Jim McCann's love child.

[Deus ex Chris]

And you are entitled to enjoy it.

Just as I am entitled to criticize it.
You're absolutely right, but you keep saying the same things over and over. That's what has everyone annoyed.

[Slung]

This is clearly me and Jim McCann's love child.

Where are there faces? They look like they have some kind of Cher's The Mask thing going on. Weird.

[Shade101]

LOL. Did anyone else notice how tight that costume is, on Storm's crotch?

What are you trying to say Pryde? BLACK people can't wear crotchtastic swimsuits?!

[Hakael]

I was a bit underwhelmed with this issue... but I like the new status quo.
Magneto was a bit out of character, I wonder what the High Evolutionary told him to have him even consider making such an ass out of himself in an electronic suit. The only part where he was in character was when he said he despised himself for it.

I'm all for whatever plan Erik and H.E. have cooked up, but couldn't he have used a lackey for a diversion just the same? Having Magneto sink this low was sad to read, but it does shine focus on his desperation...

[Omega Alpha]

High Evolutionary is being pushed as being extremely intelligent but that's not really in his background. He has done nothing of note. Sinister has always been ahead of all the geneticists on the planet. He even taught HE for a time. And we'll see how powerful HE is once this concludes..

You don't know that much about HE's backstory, or so it seems from your post. Sinister has been ahead of all geneticists on the planet because the Evolutionary lives for most of the time on his own planet, with species he created himself. He's a cosmic entity, both power and intelligence wise, and that comes from his experimentations. Sinister thought him only when he was young and unexperienced.


I also don't quite understand why Cyclops went from "X-Men, NO MORE!" to "Every mutant in the world is now an X-Man" so quickly. He's a flip-flopper.

Nope. He "disbanded" the X-man for one clear reason, and couldn't have done anything else at that point.

As for now, yeah, I can't really think of a good reason. My guess either is:

1) He believes that one thing is to attack a mansion, another one is to go against an entire city. Specially considering the government there is at their side.

2) They are deliberately setting up for this mysterious 2009 event, and by doing so are simply ignoring what happened in the last 2 or 3 years.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, but my guess is more of the #2 than of the #1.

[DeadXMan]

and since when dose Magneto quote Robocop?

[pryde15]

What are you trying to say Pryde? BLACK people can't wear crotchtastic swimsuits?!

NOT WHEN I CAN SEE HER VAGINA SO VIVIDLY.

[KiplingKat]

You're absolutely right, but you keep saying the same things over and over. That's what has everyone annoyed.

If I am, and I don't think I am, why do people keep arguing against what I am saying over and over?

I'm not sitting here just hitting cut n' paste and repeat of my own volition (you'll note in my post to david r. I did not repeat all my criticism verbatim). I am discussing it with people.

The annoyance seems to start when some people run out of viable arguments. That's when the insults start flying.

[sneggz]

I was a bit underwhelmed with this issue... but I like the new status quo.
Magneto was a bit out of character, I wonder what the High Evolutionary told him to have him even consider making such an ass out of himself in an electronic suit. The only part where he was in character was when he said he despised himself for it.

I'm all for whatever plan Erik and H.E. have cooked up, but couldn't he have used a lackey for a diversion just the same? Having Magneto sink this low was sad to read, but it does shine focus on his desperation...

Lackeys? What Lackeys??:confused:

Magneto + No Powers = Exodus telling him he has no place with mutants.

[DeadXMan]

If I am, and I don't think I am, why do people keep arguing against what I am saying over and over?

I'm not sitting here just hitting cut n' paste and repeat of my own volition (you'll note in my post to david r. I did not repeat all my criticism verbatim). I am discussing it with people.

The annoyance seems to start when some people run out of viable arguments. That's when the insults start flying.

but that's when you know your winning.

[Deus ex Chris]

If I am, and I don't think I am, why do people keep arguing against what I am saying over and over?

I'm not sitting here just hitting cut n' paste and repeat of my own volition (you'll note in my post to david r. I did not repeat all my criticism verbatim). I am discussing it with people.

The annoyance seems to start when some people run out of viable arguments. That's when the insults start flying.
You've been doing it for a week. It got old in the last thread--the one that got closed. That's the problem. Also, notice that I'm not hurling insults. I'm just letting you know.

[KiplingKat]

but that's when you know your winning.

I know. :biggrin:

It's just I've just been on the internet for so long, I get bored when people lose it like that.

[DeadXMan]

Lackeys? What Lackeys??:confused:

Magneto + No Powers = Exodus telling him he has no place with mutants.

but Skids said he was repowered in the same book Bru's writing.

[rwsmith]

Seemed pretty standard for a big anniversary issue to me. You've got your obligatory appearance by and fight with Magneto. You've got some Sentinels. And you've got a very vanilla core team of longstanding X-men.

Not a bad issue by any means, rather it was just "okay." I was hoping for something a little more fresh, though. Like Morrison's first issue (New X-men #114) or even Mike Carey's (X-men #188).

[Shade101]

NOT WHEN I CAN SEE HER VAGINA SO VIVIDLY.

Oh please Pryde! You know you love her vajayjay so much, that you're tempted to give it a kiss!

[Novaya Havoc]

but that's when you know your winning.

No. That's when you know you are petulant and unreceptive to criticism.

[KiplingKat]

You've been doing it for a week. It got old in the last thread--the one that got closed. That's the problem. Also, notice that I'm not hurling insults. I'm just letting you know.

If it got old, why did people keep discussing/arguing it with me? Why do they continue now?

You had better look to yourselves before placing all the blame on me.

[DeadXMan]

after all the care free sex in Wakanda?

it be like a 747 landing in the Grand Cannon

[DeadXMan]

No. That's when you know you are petulant and unreceptive to criticism.

Thanks for the example, Novaya. :cool:

[KiplingKat]

but Skids said he was repowered in the same book Bru's writing.


Shhh! We're supposed to forget that. :wink:

*waves hands in the air dramatically*

"It didn't happen, It didn't happen, It didn't happen..."

[sneggz]

but Skids said he was repowered in the same book Bru's writing.

Then why's he using a suit to simulate his powers?
Why did he use a surgical laser to take out Frenzy?

[Deus ex Chris]

If it got old, why did people keep discussing/arguing it with me? Why do they continue now?
I don't know. Ask them. I stopped early on.

You had better look to yourselves before placing all the blame on me.
Darling, you better do a little looking too.

[Deus ex Chris]

Shhh! We're supposed to forget that. :wink:

*waves hands in the air dramatically*

"It didn't happen, It didn't happen, It didn't happen..."
Considering Magneto's response, I don't think you have to forget anything. He neither admitted nor denied it.

[DeadXMan]

1. I can't hear you over the plot hole :wink:
2. cause he a bad ass nazi hunter. He could kill you with a tooth pick if he wanted to. :cool:

[Shade101]

after all the care free sex in Wakanda?

it be like a 747 landing in the Grand Cannon

:eek: *dies*

[DeadXMan]

:eek: *dies*

* in Scottish Accent
we haver a poster down! We have a poster down!

[Scavenger]

High Evolutionary is being pushed as being extremely intelligent but that's not really in his background. He has done nothing of note. Sinister has always been ahead of all the geneticists on the planet. He even taught HE for a time. And we'll see how powerful HE is once this concludes.


Sinister plays with his genetics so he can stretch and not die.

HE evolves himself into an energy being, creates planets, and makes new species.

Sinister hangs out with Gambit. HE hangs out with Galactus.

Sinister is older...HE is far more knowledgeable and powerful.



In the very first issue of X-factor, it was said that X-Factor held the key to re-powering mutant kind. And I think that, if he is allowed, PAD may be quietly building towards that.


I think it's safe to say that X-Factor won't have anything to do with it.

This is a book who's goal at the start was to try to figure out what caused M Day while it was a mystery that no other book even mentioend as they were all going about as if they knew already.

Only Claremont is further away from getting to do meaningful stories than PAD is.

[KiplingKat]

I don't know. Ask them. I stopped early on.


Darling, you better do a little looking too.

No, I'm good. I'm fine with discussing/debating these things. If people don't want to discuss it, then they should not discuss it. Then I have nothing to respond to.

[KiplingKat]

Considering Magneto's response, I don't think you have to forget anything. He neither admitted nor denied it.

See...? :wink:

It doesn't matter whether Magneto confirmed or denied. It was a book of prophecy that said he was "still a mutant".

[Shade101]

* in Scottish Accent
we haver a poster down! We have a poster down!

Oh lawd! Jesus! PRAISE HIM, PRAISE HIM! I've fallen Jesus, but I got right back up!

[Deus ex Chris]

No, I'm good. I'm fine with discussing/debating these things. If people don't want to discuss it, then they should not discuss it. Then I have nothing to respond to.
Well, OK, then.

See...? :wink:

It does matter whether Magneto confirmed or denied. It was a book of prophecy that said he was "still a mutant".
Did you read the story, dear? It was all about interpretation. That's how Skids interpreted it. Of course, within a short amount of time he does get his abilities back--albeit through artificial means--and that was very possibly what the book was referring to.

[KiplingKat]

I think it's safe to say that X-Factor won't have anything to do with it.

This is a book who's goal at the start was to try to figure out what caused M Day while it was a mystery that no other book even mentioend as they were all going about as if they knew already.

Only Claremont is further away from getting to do meaningful stories than PAD is.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but Old Tryp said that X-Factor held the key to mutant regaining their powers, and young Tryp tried to kidnap and murder Siryn...who is now pregnant.

Now it might not go any further than that. I'm sure if there is a grand "repower the mutants arc", editorial wants one of the big titles as the center piece...

But still...it's a lovely thought.

[KiplingKat]

Did you read the story, dear? It was all about interpretation. That's how Skids interpreted it. Of course, within a short amount of time he does get his abilities back--albeit through artificial means.

But he isn't a mutant. Not "You have your powers", but you are "still a mutant". Big difference.

I did the read the story, but I think it is safe to say that Skids interpretation is a little less biased than Masques' was.

[jester1436]

but Skids said he was repowered in the same book Bru's writing.

Skids used to live in a sewer - while I'm sure she can read at this point, I question her reading comprehension level. I doubt it's acceptable for a woman of her age.

[DeadXMan]

Oh lawd! Jesus! PRAISE HIM, PRAISE HIM! I've fallen Jesus, but I got right back up!

no you won't, you'll be stone dead in any mintue
Come off to the cart.

[KiplingKat]

Skids used to live in a sewer - while I'm sure she can read at this point, I question her reading comprehension level. I doubt it's acceptable for a woman of her age.

She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, I don't think they graduate functional illiterates from the S.H.I.E.L.D. training program. :wink:

[Deus ex Chris]

But he isn't a mutant. Not "You have your powers", but you are "still a mutant". Big difference.

I did the read the story, but I think it is safe to say that Skids interpretation is a little less biased than Masques' was.
I don't think it's safe to assume anything. Skids isn't an expert on prophecy. It shouldn't be surprising to discover that she doesn't quite comprehend the full meaning of the scraps and scribbles of a woman pushed to insanity by her knowledge of the future.

You're just looking for any excuse to punch holes in this development. You'll have to do a little better than that.

[Pyro]

Nope. He "disbanded" the X-man for one clear reason, and couldn't have done anything else at that point.Are you referring to Xavier's death? I haven't read X-Men 205(?) since it came out and I don't have the issue on me, but I don't see how situations have changed enough for Scott to change directions. Perhaps the Mayor's help in SF, but Scott had pretty much planned to move there whether she got involved or not.

As for now, yeah, I can't really think of a good reason. My guess either is:

1) He believes that one thing is to attack a mansion, another one is to go against an entire city. Specially considering the government there is at their side.

2) They are deliberately setting up for this mysterious 2009 event, and by doing so are simply ignoring what happened in the last 2 or 3 years.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, but my guess is more of the #2 than of the #1.Mansion, City, Island nation... Any one of them can be a target. I suppose Cyclops is just planning to defeat anyone who attacks them from now on.

[DeadXMan]

She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, I don't think they graduate functional illiterates from the S.H.I.E.L.D. training program. :wink:

Though you wouldn't know it from the look of things.

Way to protect us Stark. :rolleyes:

[KiplingKat]

no you won't, you'll be stone dead in any mintue
Come off to the cart.

I think I'll go for a walk!

[Shade101]

no you won't, you'll be stone dead in any mintue
Come off to the cart.

LOL

You'll have to catch me first...

[DeadXMan]

I think I'll go for a walk!


Your not fooling anyone. :mad:

[jester1436]

She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, I don't think they graduate functional illiterates from the S.H.I.E.L.D. training program. :wink:

Please, anyone can be an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., they once employed Texas Twister.

[KiplingKat]

I don't think it's safe to assume anything. Skids isn't an expert on prophecy. It shouldn't be surprising to discover that she doesn't quite comprehend the full meaning of the scraps and scribbles left by a woman pushed to insanity by her knowledge of the future.

You're just looking for any excuse to punch holes in this development. You'll have to do a little better than that.

Oh, I don't need to bother with that to punch holes in his characterization in this issue. I didn't even think of it until DeadXMan brought it up/

But that starts us off on yet another "Magneto was portrayed badly in this issue" debate.

You see what I mean?

[KiplingKat]

Though you wouldn't know it from the look of things.

Way to protect us Stark. :rolleyes:

It's Tony. I'm sure S.H.I.E.L.D. as a "casting couch" by now.

[KiplingKat]

Your not fooling anyone. :mad:

I feel happyyy, I feel happyyyy...

[DeadXMan]

LOL

You'll have to catch me first...

Cue Yankety Sax

http://youtube.com/watch?v=spz8_rpE0e0

[Deus ex Chris]

Oh, I don't need to bother with that to punch holes in his characterization in this issue. I didn't even think of it until DeadXMan brought it up/

But that starts us off on yet another "Magneto was portrayed badly in this issue" debate.

You see what I mean?
So are you conceding that the whole "but Skids said" argument isn't much of an argument?

[DeadXMan]

It's Tony. I'm sure S.H.I.E.L.D. as a "casting couch" by now.

and a "Debriefing" Bed

[KiplingKat]

So are you conceding that the whole "but Skids said" argument isn't much of an argument?

Argument about what?

[Shade101]

Cue Yankety Sax

http://youtube.com/watch?v=spz8_rpE0e0

:eek: *gulp*

[KiplingKat]

and a "Debriefing" Bed

"Oh yeah. Restrict that data baby...restrict it!"

[DeadXMan]

I feel happyyy, I feel happyyyy...

*CLUNK!!!!*

Right, see you tomorrow.


(Night)

[Omega Alpha]

Are you referring to Xavier's death? I haven't read X-Men 205(?) since it came out and I don't have the issue on me, but I don't see how situations have changed enough for Scott to change directions.


The reason for why Scott falsely disbanded the team (which wasn't for real) was to get Stark and the Initiative out of their backs and then plan on what to do next while they had a break.

[KiplingKat]

*CLUNK!!!!*

Right, see you tomorrow.


(Night)

'Night.:smile:

[DeadXMan]

"Oh yeah. Restrict that data baby...restrict it!"

Nick didn't need a bed, he got his data hard and fast aginst the bulkhead.

[Deus ex Chris]

Argument about what?
That Magneto was re-powered and that this creates a glaring plot-hole or whatever. Isn't that what you were just arguing? I know it didn't start with you, but you certainly jumped on.

[KiplingKat]

That Magneto was re-powered and that this creates a glaring plot-hole or whatever. Isn't that what you were just arguing? I know it didn't start with you, but you certainly jumped on.

I never said he was repowered (Actually, depending on how much weight you want to give "Still" the passage may infer that he was never depowered to begin with), only that Brubaker has certainly forgotten, and wants us to forget, that little tid-bit he dropped. There was nothing definitive that said he was repowered, and his following appearance in Legacy proved that. There is no way Magnetro would let himself get knocked around by former underlings if he had the power to fight back.

[Deus ex Chris]

I never said he was repowered (Actually, depending on how much weight you want to give "Still" the passage may infer that he was never depowered to begin with), only that Brubaker has certainly forgotten, and wants us to forget, that little tid-bit he dropped.
Well, you're hardly in a position to assume what Brubaker has forgotten and what he wants. For all you know, that last scene with Skids was meant to tease Magneto's current developments. Also, we all know that Magneto was certainly depowered--including Bru. Bendis touched on it in House of M and New Avengers. Plus, we never saw what the passage actually said. We got an interpretation by Skids who is hardly an authority.

There was nothing definitive that said he was repowered, and his following appearance in Legacy proved that.
Yeah, I know this.

There is no way Magnetro would let himself get knocked around by former underlings if he had the power to fight back.
Of course not, dear.

Anyway, I've had enough for tonight. Kisses.

[Hakael]

Lackeys? What Lackeys??:confused:

Magneto + No Powers = Exodus telling him he has no place with mutants.

just because he doesn't have Exodus and the Acolytes doing what he wants doesn't mean he can't find a desperate depowered mutant to suit up and create the exact same diversion. It's Erik Magnus Lensherr... he is/was a very influential man.

[pryde15]

Oh please Pryde! You know you love her vajayjay so much, that you're tempted to give it a kiss!

I am not interested in getting an exotic STD.

[podmark]

I wasn't impressed with this issue at all. Liked Dodson's art though.

[tunasammiches]

I can't believe Bru or Fraction used the word "Retarded" like that. Isn't that word like, PC-off limits?

Its official:Land is afraid to draw Nightcrawaler and Beast. He tried cause he had to, but knew he would fail.

[MuhollandDriver]

EXCUSE ME!

THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT ALI BLAIRE IS BACK AND SO GOOD AND PIXIE HAS GAY DAZZLER FAN FRIENDS THAT ARE NOT ANOLE!

Anole wouldn't listen to Dazzler on his life.

*ducks*

[Wolvieman]

When magneto got repowered?

[ZeoVGM]

I can't believe Bru or Fraction used the word "Retarded" like that. Isn't that word like, PC-off limits?

Thankfully, it's not. That's how people actually speak. I'm sure mutants use it too. :P

Anyway, fantastic issue. Yes, the Magneto thing felt a little off, but when you realize he was trying to keep the X-Men at bay for a little while, it makes more sense.

But really, a great introduction to San Francisco.

[pryde15]

Thankfully, it's not. That's how people actually speak. I'm sure mutants use it too. :P

Anyway, fantastic issue. Yes, the Magneto thing felt a little off, but when you realize he was trying to keep the X-Men at bay for a little while, it makes more sense.

But really, a great introduction to San Francisco.

Just look above to see an example of the word being used. So you do have proof.

[pariah-1972]

Anyone notice on page 22 that Nightcrawler looks a little bit like the guy who played him in the movie in the face?

Maybe i'm imagining things?

anyways why is everyone so completely positive that Mags and H.E want to rebuild the mutant race?
It wasn't completely explicit tho thats what i assumed too.

After re-reading it i understood why Mags was acting like his crazy ole silver age self,
but i still don't like it .
i prefer how Magneto has been lately more normal and conflicted and depressed about how everything has turned to shit for him when in his mind he has had nothing but good intentions and such.

It makes him seem more like a normal person and not a cookie cutter villian.

[metalgorgomon]

Anyone notice on page 22 that Nightcrawler looks a little bit like the guy who played him in the movie in the face?

Maybe i'm imagining things?


No you're not. I also thought the same when I saw that panel. It definitely looked like the actor from the X-2 movie.

I never read any comic book with Land's art (except the FCBD one) and I fully understand now why some of you hated it.

I thought his art is beautiful, but looked completely traced from someone's picture. And it bugged me a lot. The characters also seems too happy and it's creepy.

I think this issue is quite entertaining. But I'm not THAT impressed since this is THE #500th issue of the book. It supposed to be great. It has so many WTF moments. But you guys pretty much said it all already.

I really wanted this book to be good... Hopefully next issue will be better.

[Quinnhop]

What the hell did people expect issue 500 to be like? There were only two options really...

a) A set-up issue for a new direction/all-new, all-different interpretation of the series.

b) A pay-off issue that had years of CLAREMONT building up to it; the result of which would be a poorly-written rehash of ideas, themes, and characters that have been done to death by now. "The Marriage of Scott and Emma!" or "Rachel Grey: PheonixMS"...

Either way, one issue of a comic book isn't going to be a standalone 'ah mah gahd'. This was well-written, fun, nostalgic, and (best of all) gives us direction. A solid 500th issue.

[DasPoppen]

Please hand Uncanny to Mike Carey immediately and give him a decent artist. Whoever had the idea of pairing Land with Dodson should be fired...

[Magneto Rocks]

Ugh. This makes no sense to me. Brubaker had a fine handle on the character back in "Extremists"- okay, we saw very little of him, but he was more quiet, more introspective- more like you'd imagine Magneto *should* be these days. Then we saw him in "Legacy" and it was the same character, similarly well played, acting as you'd imagine he would. And with Brubaker's experience making Doctor Doom sympathetic in "Books of Doom" and in general writing a pitch perfect deep character study on him, I had high hopes here.

But this... this silver age ranting lunatic more befitting to Morrison than two such great writers? There better be a really, REALLY good explanation or I'm gone from X-Men again.

[Sandy Hausler]

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/uxm500a.jpg

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/uxm500b.jpg


To their credit, Brubaker and Fraction are really seeming to try a new approach with this title. The attitudes of the X-Men are so different from what we’re used to, mostly because they are actually, for the first time in a long while, HAPPY. Whether they will stay happy will be the point of Brubaker and Fraction’s run on the book, but the new status quo certainly is an interesting one - the X-Men have now been accepted by the city of San Francisco, and for the first time in a long time, the X-Men are not being treated like freaks at all. So the X-Men build a big mutant haven in San Fran, and that is where the future conflicts will arise.

It’s a good idea, and the issue is filled with good ideas for future stories, but for this one issue, it is not a particularly great story.

The plot revolves around a controversial art exhibit involving Sentinels. While at the exhibit, Magneto shows up and turns the Sentinels on the X-Men. This all turns out to be a big diversion to distract from a plot Magneto has cooked up with the High Evolutionary where Magneto distracts the X-Men while the High Evolutionary collects some sort of data/materials from the Celestial that is sitting in Golden Gate Park (it is a nice touch of continuity by Brubaker and Fraction to work in the Celestial plot from Gaiman’s Eternals storyline - I wonder if we’ll see any crossovers between the books?).

Brubaker and Fraction take an interesting approach with Magneto. Remember, in some way, due to the events of House of M and the fact that the Scarlet Witch is his daughter, Magneto is perhaps kinda sorta sorta kinda indirectly responsible for the almost extermination of his entire species. For a man whose life has been built around the preservation of that species - this has got to be a devastating blow for him. Remember how freaked out he was when he hurt Kitty Pryde in Uncanny X-Men #150? Well, imagine the guilt he must feel about THIS! It has to be tremendous, and Brubaker and Fraction play upon that guilt well, as Magneto does many things he would not ordinarily do in this issue, just because nothing else matters to him as much as the gambit he and the High Evolutionary have cooked up to hopefully restart the mutant race. So we get a Magneto who SEEMS like a standard villain in the issue, especially with his interactions with Colossus and the Sentinels, but really, what we have is a man consumed with guilt who would do anything, even make himself look like a mockery of his former self, just to help mutantkind (something that he, currently, is not even a member of!).

That was a great idea by Brubaker and Fraction.

However, that was only one part of the issue, and most of the rest of the issue was just exposition for the new mutant status quo and setting up of future plot lines. I like how they used the epilogues of the comic to set up future stories - that makes the comic work really well as a jumping on point, as it establishes all the future stories that readers are hopefully intrigued by (including what’s the deal with this Simon guy? What’s the deal with the Hellfire Cult? What’s the deal with that Guy guy? When will we see Dazzler?!?). It doesn’t do much for THIS issue, though.

The artwork, meanwhile, was not great. Greg Land’s characters were generally weak, especially the way they changed looks from page to page. The Dodsons, who I am not a huge fan of, were SOOO much better than Land. Still, their art styles are not similar at all, so having them alternate every few pages was pretty jarring. Having the Dodsons do a full issue in the future will be nicer.

Anyhow, for a jumping on point, this was a good issue. Brubaker and Fraction have come up with a good new status quo and their upcoming stories sound intriguing. This issue, by itself, though, did not have enough “meat” on the story, spending more time on set-up (both for the status quo and for future story arcs). And while that may be a necessary evil, it still results in a comic that was only “okay,” so one that I would slightly not recommend.

-Brian

I had dropped most of the X-books a while ago, but I had to buy #500. This book is not going to change my buying habits. I don't buy the "San Francisco is a new mutant sanctuary" idea. And I certainly don't think that San Francisco would go along with it. Super heroes attract super villains. And think of what that would do to property values.

Fred Dukes is a movie star? Last I saw him, he was on death's door. He had lost his fat and was sick with multiple diseases. I find it hard to believe that he somehow turned that around.

The Magneto/High Evolutionary/Celestials connection is interesting, but I haven't seen enough to hook me. So I won't be back next issue.

The art was great though. But I buy my comics more for the story than the art.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Say what you will but is was nothing like the garbage Morrison wrote. Not even in the same realm. Back stories are coming to this alliance and what not anyway. People just want answers right now. It's rather funny.

You know, you're right, but not that right. Both Morrison and Brubaker do not have a feel for the X-Men. Even where the story is interesting, it feels hollow. But Morrison was worse in this way.

Sandy Hausler

[LawGiver]

I had dropped most of the X-books a while ago, but I had to buy #500. This book is not going to change my buying habits. I don't buy the "San Francisco is a new mutant sanctuary" idea. And I certainly don't think that San Francisco would go along with it. Super heroes attract super villains. And think of what that would do to property values.

Fred Dukes is a movie star? Last I saw him, he was on death's door. He had lost his fat and was sick with multiple diseases. I find it hard to believe that he somehow turned that around.

The Magneto/High Evolutionary/Celestials connection is interesting, but I haven't seen enough to hook me. So I won't be back next issue.

The art was great though. But I buy my comics more for the story than the art.

Sandy Hausler

Why wouldn't San Fran accept mutants? They let illegal immigrants in there, don't do crap to them when they commit crimes. SF is laughs in the face of Government and it's petty laws!

As for Fred Dukes, if Star Jones can be thin, why can't he? A couple tummy tucks, some Tums, some other medical procedures and BAM he's Brad Pitt. How is it a shock?

You're last line about great art and no story is really funny.

[LawGiver]

Let's face it..people are still mad they got sucked into that Shiar story with Vulcan that went for a whole year but I can't relate to that because I didn't buy those issues. I don't buy Summer-centric stories unless it somehow involves Stryfe returning or Rachel really getting the spotlight.

What a shame, missed a great story.

[Sandy Hausler]

Why wouldn't San Fran accept mutants? They let illegal immigrants in there, don't do crap to them when they commit crimes. SF is laughs in the face of Government and it's petty laws!

As for Fred Dukes, if Star Jones can be thin, why can't he? A couple tummy tucks, some Tums, some other medical procedures and BAM he's Brad Pitt. How is it a shock?

You're last line about great art and no story is really funny.

I'm not saying they wouldn't accept them. They just wouldn't be wild about setting up a mutant sanctuary in their backyard. Unless that's just a metaphor.

The last time we saw Dukes, he had lost his fat, but not his skiin. He was sick from a number of diseases, and looked like he was on death's door. That's why it's a surpirse.

I gather you like the story and hate the art? Well, different strokes for different folks. I perfer Brubaker's work on Captain America (though I still don't cotton to the Bucky retcon). That book's more suited to his strengths.

Sandy Hausler

[Red Orion]

Because it's been set up that way. Everyone else have failed while Magneto was left out of all the decision making. It's time for the most influential mutant of all time to make his move, powers or not.

Erik_Lensherr is that you?

[claimtosubclaim]

Why wouldn't San Fran accept mutants? They let illegal immigrants in there, don't do crap to them when they commit crimes. SF is laughs in the face of Government and it's petty laws!

The amount of property damage incurred alone would cause us to protest for them to go back to NY where the buildings get destroyed and rebuilt like Lego pieces.

Erik_Lensherr is that you?

Oh snap! I hope not. I don't miss that guy one bit.

[ProfeZZor X]

Just my damn luck.... They sold out of the Turner cover before I could even buy it. All they had left was the covers above.

To make things worse, they also sold out of Ultimate X #96... So I pretty much came home empty handed. :frown:

[DDM]

Oh, compared to that? They aren't even on the same planet. Adjectiveless #1 out performs Uncanny #500 on so many levels...

Uncanny X-Men #100, #137, #150, #193, #196, #198, #200, #229, #242, & #275 along with the already mentioned X-Men #1 (1991 series) are superior to Uncanny X-Men #500. This story is all smoke & mirrors, style without substance. The whole point of the story really does not have enough substance to sustain a single issue.

[DDM]

When magneto got repowered?

Magneto supposedly got his powers back in an issue of another decompressed comic, Brian Michael Bendis' The New Avengers.

[tetragene]

wow, pages upon pages of posts that make me want to go "OMG, STFU!"
it was set-up for future stories, it wasn't the climax/finale of a year or more's build-up of stories. Looking at it with that in mind, it really wasn't bad. This was setting up what's to come, which I'm pretty excited about. I liked Dodsons art a lot and Land wasn't that bad--but in the same issue the differences in the art styles is pretty jarring. Thankfully from here on out they'll be alternating arcs/issues though.

[KiplingKat]

wow, pages upon pages of posts that make me want to go "OMG, STFU!"
it was set-up for future stories, it wasn't the climax/finale of a year or more's build-up of stories. Looking at it with that in mind, it really wasn't bad. This was setting up what's to come, which I'm pretty excited about. I liked Dodsons art a lot and Land wasn't that bad--but in the same issue the differences in the art styles is pretty jarring. Thankfully from here on out they'll be alternating arcs/issues though.

Compared to a a real set-up issue. like Adjectiveless #1, it's still really lame.

[KiplingKat]

Either way, one issue of a comic book isn't going to be a standalone 'ah mah gahd'. This was well-written, fun, nostalgic, and (best of all) gives us direction. A solid 500th issue.

Wow. Has comic book writing gotten so bad that people don't expect single issues to be well-written?

Wow.

[Novaya Havoc]

I felt that the BLOB panel was an homage to this:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/Dazzler/BTM_6.jpg

[LawGiver]

Uncanny X-Men #100, #137, #150, #193, #196, #198, #200, #229, #242, & #275 along with the already mentioned X-Men #1 (1991 series) are superior to Uncanny X-Men #500. This story is all smoke & mirrors, style without substance. The whole point of the story really does not have enough substance to sustain a single issue.

This post makes me wonder if you read the story. There were plenty of plot points in this whole thing.

-Who is Kingo Sunen and what does he have to do with the Celestial?
-Does the High Evolutionary's dialogue with Kinjo Sunen hint that this guy is an Eternal?
-What is Simon Trask doing with Sentinels? How did he get them and what was the techno-organic plot at the end of the issue involving him about?
-What is the High Evolutionary's plan and how does Magneto fit in? How did they meet?
-Who is the Hellfire Cult? What association do they have with the original Hellfire Club?
-Why is Dazzler back in San Fransisco?
-Who killed the director of the movie starring Fred Dukes?

Oh yea, also all that stuff with the X-Men.

So seriously, your "analysis" seems null and void.

[KiplingKat]

-Why is Dazzler back in San Fransisco?

Scott invited all the mutants to come to San Fransisco.

-Who killed the director of the movie starring Fred Dukes?

As far as I know he is still alive. It was the artist who set up the exhibit that was killed.

[Red Orion]

This post makes me wonder if you read the story. There were plenty of plot points in this whole thing.

-Who is Kingo Sunen and what does he have to do with the Celestial?
-Does the High Evolutionary's dialogue with Kinjo Sunen hint that this guy is an Eternal?
-What is Simon Trask doing with Sentinels? How did he get them and what was the techno-organic plot at the end of the issue involving him about?
-What is the High Evolutionary's plan and how does Magneto fit in? How did they meet?
-Who is the Hellfire Cult? What association do they have with the original Hellfire Club?
-Why is Dazzler back in San Fransisco?
-Who killed the director of the movie starring Fred Dukes?

Oh yea, also all that stuff with the X-Men.

So seriously, your "analysis" seems null and void.

Guy wasn't the director of Fred Dukes movie, Kingo was. Guy was just the shock artist who brought the sentinels.

[LawGiver]

Scott invited all the mutants to come to San Fransisco.



As far as I know he is still alive. It was the artist who set up the exhibit that was killed.

Guy wasn't the director of Fred Dukes movie, Kingo was. Guy was just the shock artist who brought the sentinels.

My bad, misunderstood that part.

So strike director from my statement and insert artist. Small gaffe. Sit and spin.

[frog]

I felt that the BLOB panel was an homage to this:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/Dazzler/BTM_6.jpg

You mean the Blob is going to end up changing X-baby diapers?

[Joe Acro]

Issue #500 is special. I don't agree with that sentiment, but it's an idea that plagues all of comicdom. So, since you've established that it's something special going in (even giving it four covers!), you might as well make the story special.

I think they failed. The entire team dropped the ball. It was not a bad issue. Fun X-Men downtime, a cool battle sequence, nice teamwork, a sub-plot involving villains, a few nice twists, and somewhat of a cliffhanger ending. But this is issue #500. It shouldn't just be another issue. And even if it is just going to be another issue, they should make sure it's near-perfect in its own right.

First of all, Dodson's art and Land's art don't go well together. And I can't say I prefer either of them. So I really don't know why they had both of them do the issue. I can understand, perhaps, there being a different artist for the prologues (Dodson tackles them here). But why does Dodson draw the Sentinel fight and Land draw the Magneto fight? Doesn't really make sense. Maybe someone could argue that Land wasn't a fast enough artist, but then why not have Dodson do the whole thing? It's all very odd.

Related to that, the art direction seems off. This is probably a writing/editing problem, but it might not be. We've got the X-Men taking the mayor on a tour. It seems, to me at least, like the tour pretty much starts with the main story. But it apparently didn't, as Scott and Hank explain all the stuff they showed the mayor a little later. It would've been nice if we could've been given the same tour. There's also supposedly a really great view. We don't get to experience it. So, all in all, we end up with a shot of a giant warehouse-esque room and a few shots from outside. Woo.

I'm not exactly sure what could've been improved in the writing department. I know where the issue failed, but don't know myself how it could've been fixed. For example, I never had a sense of peril. They build us up to expect the Sentinels to activate. Then, not surprisingly, the Sentinels are activated. Then the X-Men take care of them, like we'd expect. No trouble. No danger. Magneto was a slight surprise, but even he seemed to be fighting defensively (save that initial strike at Colossus). That's explained, sure, but the fight against him seems, I dunno, stale in that regard.

It's not a great issue. It's definitely not special. It's just flawed and okay. Ah well.

[KiplingKat]

Uncanny X-Men #100, #137, #150, #193, #196, #198, #200, #229, #242, & #275 along with the already mentioned X-Men #1 (1991 series) are superior to Uncanny X-Men #500. This story is all smoke & mirrors, style without substance. The whole point of the story really does not have enough substance to sustain a single issue.

Agreed with all of those. I went through and scanned through my back issues and...most of Claremont's original run is better than this. To the point it almost feels unfair to compare them.

But Uncanny #300 was definitely better than this issue as well, and it was also a "transforming the X-paradigm" issue.

[darknessatnoon]

Claremont's run is better than almost any run in Marvel history. It's not even on the same wavelength.

I wonder if the Hellfire Cult is a metaphor for the Claremont Cult. Brainwashing methods are clearly highly advanced in both groups.

[jarrod]

I wonder if the Hellfire Cult is an metaphor for the Claremont Cult. Brainwashing methods are clearly highly advanced in both groups.
You might be on to something with the mind control parallels, as a nuClaremont fan I'm certainly into complete domination... but then the whole idea seems far too subtle for BruFrac to manage. Not green enough, babe.

I think you should be writing Uncanny. <3 <3

[Scavenger]

I
Related to that, the art direction seems off. This is probably a writing/editing problem, but it might not be. We've got the X-Men taking the mayor on a tour. It seems, to me at least, like the tour pretty much starts with the main story. But it apparently didn't, as Scott and Hank explain all the stuff they showed the mayor a little later. It would've been nice if we could've been given the same tour. There's also supposedly a really great view. We don't get to experience it. So, all in all, we end up with a shot of a giant warehouse-esque room and a few shots from outside. Woo.


EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!


I'm not exactly sure what could've been improved in the writing department. I know where the issue failed, but don't know myself how it could've been fixed. For example, I never had a sense of peril. They build us up to expect the Sentinels to activate. Then, not surprisingly, the Sentinels are activated.

For one, they could have not been real Sentinels, but Sentinel looking sculptures the artist made. That would solve a bit of the suspense (Rather than "How did the master of energy turn on the robots?" it'd be about how statues came to life.) and would solve the logic problems (anyone can build a statue of a nuclear bomb...no one is gonna "get a decommisioned one" to use as "art").

[nikbackm]

This post makes me wonder if you read the story. There were plenty of plot points in this whole thing.

-Who is Kingo Sunen and what does he have to do with the Celestial?
-Does the High Evolutionary's dialogue with Kinjo Sunen hint that this guy is an Eternal?
-What is Simon Trask doing with Sentinels? How did he get them and what was the techno-organic plot at the end of the issue involving him about?
-What is the High Evolutionary's plan and how does Magneto fit in? How did they meet?
-Who is the Hellfire Cult? What association do they have with the original Hellfire Club?
-Why is Dazzler back in San Fransisco?
-Who killed the director of the movie starring Fred Dukes?

Oh yea, also all that stuff with the X-Men.

So seriously, your "analysis" seems null and void.

Kingo Sunen is a sleeping (amnesiac) Eternal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingo_Sunen

[darknessatnoon]

LOL. If not for Claremont, this place would have no relevance.

I'm sure I could find another terrible writer to despise.

[Scavenger]

I wonder if the Hellfire Cult is a metaphor for the Claremont Cult. Brainwashing methods are clearly highly advanced in both groups.

You do understand that Claremont's run on X-Men has influenced just about every super-hero comic (and certainly every team book) since, right?

Has his style not evolved to keep up with the times? That's a matter of taste I suppose, but give the man his due. The reason we're talking about X-Men 500 is because of him.

[darknessatnoon]

You do understand that Claremont's run on X-Men has influenced just about every super-hero comic (and certainly every team book) since, right?

Has his style not evolved to keep up with the times? That's a matter of taste I suppose, but give the man his due. The reason we're talking about X-Men 500 is because of him.

Who???????????????????????

[Joe Acro]

For one, they could have not been real Sentinels, but Sentinel looking sculptures the artist made. That would solve a bit of the suspense (Rather than "How did the master of energy turn on the robots?" it'd be about how statues came to life.) and would solve the logic problems (anyone can build a statue of a nuclear bomb...no one is gonna "get a decommisioned one" to use as "art").That would be one route, I suppose. High Evolutionary-controlled Sentinels would've been an interesting twist. Maybe would've allowed for them to attack humans, even.

[Scavenger]

Kingo Sunen is a sleeping (amnesiac) Eternal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingo_Sunen

Oh! Good catch! (I'm not up on my Eternal lore).

[jarrod]

For one, they could have not been real Sentinels, but Sentinel looking sculptures the artist made. That would solve a bit of the suspense (Rather than "How did the master of energy turn on the robots?" it'd be about how statues came to life.) and would solve the logic problems (anyone can build a statue of a nuclear bomb...no one is gonna "get a decommisioned one" to use as "art").
A friend of mine in school who made non-explosive bombs for his thesis got investigated, held, questioned, and even had his work seized by the FBI. They were hott pink and baby blue "love bombs", and were inert but could've been functional if the proper materials were added. Our thesis advisor was also questioned and had a black van following him to and from school for about a week.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Oh! Good catch! (I'm not up on my Eternal lore).

Exactly, me neither. Not quite sure why Uncanny is now mining Eternal lore for material. Or bringin' High Evo into the mix. Now I dig cosmic Marvel as much as possible, but High Evo? In Uncanny? Unless there's previous precedent for the character being in the book i'm not aware of, I don't like it.

[Scavenger]

That would be one route, I suppose. High Evolutionary-controlled Sentinels would've been an interesting twist. Maybe would've allowed for them to attack humans, even.

Heck go with giant Sentinel banners or something. Them being true sentinels added nothing to the story other than a giant logic gap (you'd think O*N*E or SHIELD might have something to say about Sentinel tech, even older versions, being given out).

[Pixie_Solanas]

I felt that the BLOB panel was an homage to this:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/Dazzler/BTM_6.jpg

Frankly, this one panel was more interesting than #500 as a whole. So refreshing to hear Hank not bleating about his composting skills or his green initiatives. Give it a rest, mulchman.

[Vic Vega]

I thought it was only an average issue.

A good jumping on point for new readers.

I didn't have a problem with Magento's depiction. Remember, he's trying to distract the X-Men. Going at them like old school Magneto would only get an old school response from the X-men.

Also if he feels that HE has to be the saviour of the Mutant race. He's not going to keep the X-men in the loop. He NEEDS the High Evolutionary(whose forgotten more about Genetics that Mags will ever know). He doesn't need the X-men stealing his thunder.

Also remember that unless Mags is written by C.C. he's usually a @#$%. The only variation is how much of @#$% he is.

[Pixie_Solanas]

You know, you're right, but not that right. Both Morrison and Brubaker do not have a feel for the X-Men. Even where the story is interesting, it feels hollow. But Morrison was worse in this way.

Sandy Hausler

Here's the difference: Morrison's stories, while not continuity-directed, were INTERESTING, funny, and always a pleasure to read.. Besides, the editorial mandate was for Morrison to turn the x-world on its head, and he delivered (nevermind the eventual retconning of all his work). And damn if he didn't capture Emma's essence to a tee.

I can't say that about Brubaker's run. It's been a chore to plow through most of it, even in a slam-bang centennial issue. And that's a damn shame. I hate buying titles because I feel I have to, not because of any enjoyment I get from the story. And that's what i've been doing with Uncanny for quite some time now, if i'm being honest. I keep waiting for those hooks to grab me back in and slap me around like a Payless sandal-clad whore. Haven't had that, not even close. :(

[Scavenger]

Exactly, me neither. Not quite sure why Uncanny is now mining Eternal lore for material. Or bringin' High Evo into the mix. Now I dig cosmic Marvel as much as possible, but High Evo? In Uncanny? Unless there's previous precedent for the character being in the book i'm not aware of, I don't like it.

Oh I do. Mainly because The Dreaming Celestial is part of the landscape now, as are the sleeping Eternals. The X-Men have run into HE a number of times, most recently in the Wolverine First Class last month. He fits very well with the evolutionary next step stuff.

Marvel U stuff should be showing up in the books. Iron Man should be showing up next month concerned about the sentinel attack and the mutant influx into San Francisco. (that there isn't a SHIELD monitoring station at the park around the Sentinel defies belief, to be honest).

[KiplingKat]

I thought it was only an average issue.

A good jumping on point for new readers.

I didn't have a problem with Magento's depiction. Remember, he's trying to distract the X-Men. Going at them like old school Magneto would only get an old school response from the X-men.

Also if he feels that HE has to be the saviour of the Mutant race. He's not going to keep the X-men in the loop. He NEEDS the High Evolutionary(whose forgotten more about Genetics that Mags will ever know). He doesn't need the X-men stealing his thunder.

Also remember that unless Mags is written by C.C. he's usually a @#$%. The only variation is how much of @#$% he is.

Actually, all Magneto has to do is show up to get a "old school reaction" from the X-Men. House of M #8 proved their hatred for him has passed beyond anything rational.

And if he needed to distract the X-men (which I do not fully understand why he would need to distract them as beast applied to the H.E. for help during Endangered Species), there were a million different ways he could have done so. Using Sentinels, the machines who massacred Genosha, is especially nonsensical. It would be like Magneto using Hitler for something. He isn't going to use him, he's going to kill him on sight. That's how the fight should have played out: Magneto should have come in to destroy the Sentinels and gone after the artist, and then the X-Men tried to stop him.

By acting as a team, rather than everyone taking their turn like a bad martial arts film and the fight ending so anti-climatically with a duex ex machina.

And given that he is a failure as a Mutant Messiah twice over, and indirectly caused a passive mutant genocide, he should be a little beyond feeling jealous that someone else has hand in, or even leading, the salvation of the mutant species. Up until this issue, he was that character.

Now all of a sudden, he is not.

[nikbackm]

Exactly, me neither. Not quite sure why Uncanny is now mining Eternal lore for material. Or bringin' High Evo into the mix. Now I dig cosmic Marvel as much as possible, but High Evo? In Uncanny? Unless there's previous precedent for the character being in the book i'm not aware of, I don't like it.

Well, he did depower all mutants once upon a time. Not sure if it was in Uncanny but I guess so.
This also depowered the Neo (thankfully forgotten by now :smile: ) which caused several of them to die for which they later blamed X-Men and went after them.

H.E. was also the behind the Evolutionary War still earlier. This was mostly an Avengers event but the X-Men were also involved.

[MuhollandDriver]

*sighs*

i think the team is trying really hard on this book.

Brubakers runs is often just okay....and at best...pretty good. Not good, mind You. Just pretty good.

This issue had some pretty good moments. No good ones....and nevermind great ones!

i do not have anything to add that hasn't been said already.

The prologues and epilogues he is adding in....does it remind anyone else of Neil Gaiman's style?

[KiplingKat]

Well, he did depower all mutants once upon a time. Not sure if it was in Uncanny but I guess so.

It was a crossover between Uncanny and Adjectiveless, two issues each.

Its actually rather sad to compare how proactive the X-Men were depowered in that story arc (going to the H.E.'s satellite to confront him to get their powers back) and how apathetic they are now.

[nikbackm]

Marvel U stuff should be showing up in the books. Iron Man should be showing up next month concerned about the sentinel attack and the mutant influx into San Francisco. (that there isn't a SHIELD monitoring station at the park around the Sentinel defies belief, to be honest).

There's not much Shield could do against the Celestial. Not that they would ever admit this of course! We can explain it with the Eternals using their mind control to keep them out of the way.

[KiplingKat]

The prologues and epilogues he is adding in....does it remind anyone else of Neil Gaiman's style?

As a rabid fan of Neil Gaiman...no.

[Shypsi-Prime]

I loved the issue. There was alot of story there and I like the inclusion of High Evolutionary. For a second, it seemed like it was going to be a rehash of Magento vs. X-Men but it wasn't.

I am onboard.

[Vic Vega]

Actually, all Magneto has to do is show up to get a "old school reaction" from the X-Men. House of M #8 proved their hatred for him has passed beyond anything rational.

And if he needed to distract the X-men (which I do not fully understand why he would need to distract them as beast applied to the H.E. for help during Endangered Species), there were a million different ways he could have done so. Using Sentinels, the machines who massacred Genosha, is especially nonsensical. It would be like Magneto using Hitler for something. He isn't going to use him, he's going to kill him on sight. That's how the fight should have played out: Magneto should have come in to destroy the Sentinels and gone after the artist, and then the X-Men tried to stop him.

By acting as a team, rather than everyone taking their turn like a bad martial arts film and the fight ending so anti-climatically with a duex ex machina.

And given that he is a failure as a Mutant Messiah twice over, and indirectly caused a passive mutant genocide, he should be a little beyond feeling jealous that someone else has hand in, or even leading, the salvation of the mutant species. Up until this issue, he was that character.

Now all of a sudden, he is not.

Magneto isn't even indirectly responsible for M-day. Quicksilver should get most of the blame as he's the one who egged his sister on. Magento was actually a victim in a sense.

Hell, Wanda wasn't even really responsible for M-day( as she is so crazy even she doesn't know what she did or why she did it).

And I don't think Mags is above using Sentenels to attack a Scott Summers led X-team(after all-he only really worked with the X-er when Cyke was out of the picture). If Xavier was in the picture(or if Storm was in charge) it might be different.

[MuhollandDriver]

As a rabid fan of Neil Gaiman...no.

i am quite a fan also. When they started using those in the issues..i think they might have started with the Hippie arc....was a bit Gaimanish to me.

[KiplingKat]

Magneto isn't even indirectly responsible for M-day. Quicksilver should get most of the blame as he's the one who egged his sister on. Magento was actually a victim in a sense.

But it was Magneto's murdering Pietro that set Wanda off. He was the victim...up until that point.

Not to mention the guilt he feels for simply being the progenitor of the two mutants that caused M-Day (as we saw in New Avengers #20).

Hell, Wanda wasn't even really responsible for M-day( as she is so crazy even she doesn't know what she did or why she did it).

The fact that she A. stated her intent after a long rant at her father and B. created a little place where she could live out her fantasy life, and C.of all the mutants protected by Dr. Strange and Emma at the epicenter of the change, the ones that did lose their powers were: Wanda's family, all indicate that Wanda did know what she was doing. Even her conversation with Beast in Endangered Species indicates that she is still aware on some level of what she did...and is not feeling any remorse for it.

And I don't think Mags is above using Sentenels to attack a Scott Summers led X-team(after all-he only really worked with the X-er when Cyke was out of the picture). If Xavier was in the picture(or if Storm was in charge) it might be different.

After the Sentinels massacred 16 million people on Genosha, I do. The instant Magneto did not need Cortez any longer to boost his powers, he killed him. Magneto did not need the sentinels to attack the X-Men and I think he would find the idea of using them to attack a group of the few remaining mutants abhorrent.

You have to remember to Magneto the most important thing about the X-Men is: They're mutants.

[nikbackm]

Its actually rather sad to compare how proactive the X-Men were depowered in that story arc (going to the H.E.'s satellite to confront him to get their powers back) and how apathetic they are now.

You mean apathetic in regards to not trying to reverse M-day?

I thought this was "fully" settled in Endangered Species. Dr Strange showed Beast how Wanda's spell is now apparently tied to the fabric of reality itself and trying to undo it could have grave consequences. Like the end of the universe.

Joe Q made damn sure that the muties will stay out of the way for the forseeable future it seems. :evilsmile:

[Swashbuckler]

I see nothing wrong with the High Evolutionary being brought in. It's pretty damn logical if you ask me. He must have a motivtion though, and we don't know that yet. I don't think, unless it has to do with the Celestial which I am not that excited about. I think adding H.E. is a great idea though. And adding him in #500 just makes for something fresh and new, exactly what #500 wanted to be. And it was. It didn't want to be a stinky old CC issue, so get over the differences and embrace change freaks!

[KiplingKat]

You mean apathetic in regards to not trying to reverse M-day?

I thought this was "fully" settled in Endangered Species. Dr Strange showed Beast how Wanda's spell is now apparently tied to the fabric of reality itself and trying to undo it could have grave consequences. Like the end of the universe.

Joe Q made damn sure that the muties will stay out of the way for the forseeable future it seems. :evilsmile:

In the other storyline, ALL of the X-Men cared about getting their powers back. In Endangered Species, Beast seems to be the only one who cares.

I mean, after Xavier was repowered in the M'kraan crystal, the X-Men should have been making plans.

[KiplingKat]

My only issue with the H.E. is he may be playing Magneto.

It's obvious from what Magneto said to Scott after the fight that he thinks he is out to save mutant-kind.

But the H.E. never says so.

And I will embrace change when it is good change. I have been reading the X-Men for 24 years, change is not the problem.

Crappy writing is the problem.

[timbox]

High Evolutionary or not, I don’t think it’s very wise for him to be looting parts off the Dreaming Celestial, who isn’t exactly dreaming anymore.

[Swashbuckler]

In the other storyline, ALL of the X-Men cared about getting their powers back. In Endangered Species, Beast seems to be the only one who cares.

I mean, after Xavier was repowered in the M'kraan crystal, the X-Men should have been making plans.

Well, when the Maurders attack it makes it a little difficult to plan things out. They have been distracted and on the run, re-locating, and now that they are in San Fran it would seem the stortyline of re-powerment is getting taken care of.

[Swashbuckler]

My only issue with the H.E. is he may be playing Magneto.

It's obvious from what Magneto said to Scott after the fight that he thinks he is out to save mutant-kind.

But the H.E. never says so.

And I will embrace change when it is good change. I have been reading the X-Men for 24 years, change is not the problem.

Crappy writing is the problem.

Who cares if he's playing Magneto. It looks to me like that's just what he is doing and I love it. Magneto is a has been.

[KiplingKat]

Well, when the Maurders attack it makes it a little difficult to plan things out. They have been distracted and on the run, re-locating, and now that they are in San Fran it would seem the stortyline of re-powerment is getting taken care of.

Yeah, by someone else. :wink:

The X-Men seem more concerned with hunkering down and fighting clandestine wars than re-powering the mutant species.

[tunasammiches]

I'm not saying they wouldn't accept them. They just wouldn't be wild about setting up a mutant sanctuary in their backyard. Unless that's just a metaphor.

Sandy Hausler

People have nicknamed SF "The Gay Bay". Why wouldn't the concept of SF accepting mutants (who are just another minority/counter culture/comic book metaphor, that have similar issues and are a group of people that feel the need to keep their differences "in the closet" for fear of prejudice and persecution. It's also a city well known for its liberal legislation, progressive art movements, and currently, its endeavors for more 'greener' environmental endeavors. Marvel's decision to relocate the team to SF makes total sense to me. The idea is definitely current with the times.

Yeah, by someone else. :wink:

The X-Men seem more concerned with hunkering down and fighting clandestine wars than re-powering the mutant species.

I think they feel they've exhausted those options. We've had about 2 years of them trying to find ways to re-power and re-populate the mutant population. I think we're seeing the stage where they feel their only option is to do what they can or do the best they can for the remaining surviving populus.

In the other storyline, ALL of the X-Men cared about getting their powers back. In Endangered Species, Beast seems to be the only one who cares.

I mean, after Xavier was repowered in the M'kraan crystal, the X-Men should have been making plans.

Hmm....maybe Xavier doesn't remember how he was re-powered? Also, do they even know he's alive yet? I don't think they do.

[KiplingKat]

Magneto is a has been.

I think Carey proved that Magneto was definitely not a "has been".

And as long as murderous racial predjudice exists (and it has existed from the Old Testament to our own lifetimes), Magneto is still relevant.

[pariah-1972]

How can you ever tell if a Celestial is dreaming or not? those things never move or talk.

[Swashbuckler]

Yeah, by someone else. :wink:

The X-Men seem more concerned with hunkering down and fighting clandestine wars.

What, do you want Emma to host a charity event? The Beast handled that on the X-Men's front. They aren't all scientist. Teh X-Men's reaction to M-Day has not been to immediatly try and get everyone's powers back but that's because the world has been flipped around so many times since then. I don't think Hank Pym has a lot of time to consolt them on their issue, he's a skrull in case you didn't know. The MU Civil war-ed and then got Invaded so the help hasn't been there. The X-Men realize this. They don't have any options. They know where Wanda is, Beast talked to her. Beast handled it. Why does the whole team need to go repeat Beasts journey?

[Pixie_Solanas]

People have nicknamed SF "The Gay Bay". Why wouldn't the concept of SF accepting mutants (who are just another minority/counter culture/comic book metaphor, that have similar issues and are a group of people that feel the need to keep their differences "in the closet" for fear of prejudice and persecution. It's also a city well known for its liberal legislation, progressive art movements, and currently, its endeavors for more 'greener' environmental endeavors. Marvel's decision to relocate the team to SF makes total sense to me. The idea is definitely current with the times.

Frankly, the level of acceptance in San Francisco is just as much as in any major metropolitan North American city. They could have easily set up shop in NYC or LA and let the freak flag fly. Hell, Montreal, QC, if they really wanted a progressive, liberal town.

San Francisco, it's a paradox. It's known for its liberal acceptance, sure. It's also a city known for its stifling bureaucracy, inefficient government, and rather large homeless population. It's also fast becoming gentrification warzone, with most of the city only affordable to the bourgeosie elite. And I highly doubt they'd look too kindly to mutants invading and lower property values, benevolent sanctuary aside.

[Swashbuckler]

I think Carey proved that Magneto was definitely not a "has been".

And as long as murderous racial predjudice exists (and it has existed from the Old Testament to our own lifetimes), Magneto is still relevant.

Ugh, he's powerless and old. Go beat off some magnetic rays and chill out. Let the guard change. Magneto is now a pawn to someone. Get over it.

[timbox]

How can you ever tell if a Celestial is dreaming or not? those things never move or talk.

Different book spoilers!
It's talking plenty over in the Eternals series.

[nikbackm]

In the other storyline, ALL of the X-Men cared about getting their powers back. In Endangered Species, Beast seems to be the only one who cares.

I mean, after Xavier was repowered in the M'kraan crystal, the X-Men should have been making plans.

But then they knew what happened and who to turn to to reverse it. Not so this time. They could apply to Wanda I guess but who knows what that loony might do this time? No more ....

The M'kraan seems to be a special case, Xavier got lucky. It's not as if it comes with an instruction manual. Who's next to jump into it and see what happens?

Mephisto could an option but I think his boss would be against it.

[KiplingKat]

What, do you want Emma to host a charity event? The Beast handled that on the X-Men's front. They aren't all scientist. Teh X-Men's reaction to M-Day has not been to immediatly try and get everyone's powers back but that's because the world has been flipped around so many times since then. I don't think Hank Pym has a lot of time to consolt them on their issue, he's a skrull in case you didn't know. The MU Civil war-ed and then got Invaded so the help hasn't been there. The X-Men realize this. They don't have any options. They know where Wanda is, Beast talked to her. Beast handled it. Why does the whole team need to go repeat Beasts journey?

Why would anyone talk to Hank Pym about genetics? He's a physicist.

And actually, given the mutants who have regained their powers, I think the X-Men should see they do have options. They just don't seem that interested in exploring them.

I mean is anyone even following up on Baby Jane MacGuffin of Messiah CompleX, to figure out how she came into being?

[Bingo!]

I see nothing wrong with the High Evolutionary being brought in. It's pretty damn logical if you ask me. He must have a motivtion though, and we don't know that yet. I don't think, unless it has to do with the Celestial which I am not that excited about. I think adding H.E. is a great idea though. And adding him in #500 just makes for something fresh and new, exactly what #500 wanted to be. And it was. It didn't want to be a stinky old CC issue, so get over the differences and embrace change freaks!

You're right. High Evolutionary loves tinkering with the human genome. I wonder if his cryptic message to Beast in Endangered Species has anything to do with his appearance here. Perhaps Beast actually piqued HE's interest in the mutant gene that has disappeared from all but the 198.

Uncanny 500 was great. Could have done without Land's art, but the party and subsequent fight in Yerba Buena gardens was awesome! Love that the X-Men have moved to SF. :biggrin:

[Pro]

Marvel U stuff should be showing up in the books. Iron Man should be showing up next month concerned about the sentinel attack and the mutant influx into San Francisco. (that there isn't a SHIELD monitoring station at the park around the Sentinel defies belief, to be honest).

To be honest the entire san fran scene is going to be defying belief if the marvel Universe as a whole doesn't react to this. But let's face it Joe Q doesn't really want the rest of the marvel universe involved in the x-men, wasn't that the whole point of wiping out the mutant race with a less than subtle deux ex machina?
As is likely the move the san francisco. I mean it's not like the 50 state initiative produced a ton of stories set in cities other than New York. Most major superheroes are still tied to New York, everyone except mutants. So not holding my breath for any true interaction between x-men and the rest of the heroes.
It'll just be: westcoast: whacky mutants, eastcoast: everyone else, for the most part.

After destroying the mutant race, keeping them out of every crossover for the past couple of years, they've now moved them away from every other major superhero team. It just seems marvel is marginalising the x-franchise more and more.

I thought the comment Fraction made with regards to SI:x-men, probably unintentionally, illustrates the situation quite well: the rest of the marvel universe fights on the beaches in normandy while the x-men are barely a footnote in history holding off a german division. I'm sure he didn't mean it that way but boy does it hit the bullseye.

Not quite sure why Uncanny is now mining Eternal lore for material.

Celestials are the ones who introduced mutancy in the human genome to begin with. It's one of the few interesting things about the move to san francisco. Totally makes sense for mutants whose race is dying to camp around the feet of one of the "god" responsible for making their race. That the thing is just standing there with no real supervision or military presence to speak of is just ridiculous.

Or bringin' High Evo into the mix. Now I dig cosmic Marvel as much as possible, but High Evo? In Uncanny? Unless there's previous precedent for the character being in the book i'm not aware of, I don't like it.

Wanda and Pietro were born near wundagore and were hidden from Magneto by one of the High Evolutionary's creatures. The High Evolutionary also once wiped away mutants powers all by himself temporarily. Sounds like a project worth his time to figure out how to reverse Wanda's woogie, especially if his reward is celestial technology.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Different book spoilers!
It's talking plenty over in the Eternals series.

Too true, albeit to one guy though.

[Pro]

Magneto isn't even indirectly responsible for M-day.

He obviously wasn't wearing a condom some 30 odd years ago. That was pretty irresponsible :p.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I mean is anyone even following up in Baby Jane MacGuffin of Messiah CompleX, to figure out how she came into being?

That story's been relegated to Cable, and Cable only. Yeah, good point though. I forgot about that damn baby.

Apparently, the Uncanny crew are more interested in breaking up art shows and broadcasting mutant sanctuary calls off the Transamerica. WTF?

[darknessatnoon]

Why would anyone talk to Hank Pym about genetics? He's a physicist.


He's also a bio-chemist. Entymologist. Expert in AI and cybernetics.

[KiplingKat]

He's also a bio-chemist. Entymologist. Expert in AI and cybernetics.

True, true, but that's still along way from being true geneticist like the H.E. or Sinister. Hank Pym would not be the guy to help them.

[Bingo!]

He's also a bio-chemist. Entymologist. Expert in AI and cybernetics.

And currently a Skrull.

[jmc247]

He obviously wasn't wearing a condom some 30 odd years ago. That was pretty irresponsible :p.

Wanda and Pietro were born a few years after WW2, in order to explain why they aren't in their late 50s it was stated in one of the recient Marvel Encyclopedia's that the HE put them in statis for an extended period.

[darknessatnoon]

True, but that's still along way from being true geneticist like the H.E. or Sinister. Hank Pym would not be the guy to help them.

I don't care.

[tunasammiches]

Frankly, the level of acceptance in San Francisco is just as much as in any major metropolitan North American city. They could have easily set up shop in NYC or LA and let the freak flag fly. Hell, Montreal, QC, if they really wanted a progressive, liberal town.

It's also a city known for its stifling bureaucracy, inefficient government, and rather large homeless population. It's also fast becoming gentrification warzone, with most of the city only affordable to the bourgeosie elite. And I highly doubt they'd look too kindly to mutants invading and lower property values, benevolent sanctuary aside.

Frankly, that's untrue. California, as a whole, is repeatedly reputed to lobby for much more progressive legislation than any other state in the country, except maybe for Oregon. They could live in LA, but then you're splitting hairs. NY state... they've been doing that for their entire existence and the whole purpose of the editorial decision is to MOVE ON, not stay still. (Remember that one time when the X-Men lived in Westchester, NY for years and years since we've known them?!) And speaking of inefficient government and cities affordable to the bourgeosie elite, with Bloomberg as mayor, NYC's politics are clearly and just as (or more) blatantly financially motivated. Both cities are small and it's not a coincidence that Manhattan is more of a concrete jungle and SF exhibits more natural resources. How would migrated mutants lower property value? True, the city's black population (in the city of SF proper) itself has declined, but gentrification is occuring at a more rapid rate in lots of Amercian cities, for example NYC and Chicago. To say a mutant population would lower property value, would you equate that statement to any cultural or ethnic minority that lives there (ie-asians or gays?) Cause if that's the case, then SF demographic statistics prove you wrong. That seems like an inaccurate assessment. Plus the X-Men are living outside of SF. Where the rent is cheaper.

Actually, now that I think about it, they should just live in Chicago. Even though we're officially the highest taxed and financially (and legislatively) conservative city in the country. But the rent's way cheap.

As for Canada as an alternative, that's true. But then that would make them a Candian team, and that would be a bad decision for Marvel, as it might influence sales negatively and serve to disenfranchise the American market. And what's X-Men, if not a franchise?

[Swashbuckler]

The point is, the baby is being dealt with in Cable. You can't have EVERY X-Book dealing witht he stupid baby. The X-Men are workign to gather their resources, they are putting themselves together so they can re-build the mutant race. You guys really can't see this? Issue after issue of them trying to regain their powers would be senseless. We can't have check-ins on every damned character. And besides, your honestly just mad because Magneto has no powers and the X-Men aren't helping him get them back. Boo-hoo, you're lord and savior is now barely able to function without a diaper (aka power suit).

[Swashbuckler]

Wanda and Pietro were born a few years after WW2, in order to explain why they aren't in their late 50s it was stated in one of the recient Marvel Encyclopedia's that the HE put them in statis for an extended period.

The whole time element is comics is f-ed. It's not even worth debating or arguing about.

[Vic Vega]

He obviously wasn't wearing a condom some 30 odd years ago. That was pretty irresponsible :p.

Magneto's faith in the pull out method was gravely misinformed.:biggrin:

[KiplingKat]

But Marvel could at least have some X-Men (Gawd knows there are enough of them left) dedicated to trying to reverse M-Day. They could at least deal with the topic intermittently in the multiple X-Titles that come out every month.

Cable isn't even really dealing with it. He's just locked in this never ending battle with Bishop.

[KiplingKat]

Magneto's faith in the pull out method was gravely misinformed.:biggrin:

Why should he? It was his wife.

He was gettin' laid with a license.

[Anna]

LOL. Did anyone else notice how tight that costume is, on Storm's crotch?

Yeah. Not much left to the imagination is there?

[KiplingKat]

As for Canada as an alternative, that's true. But then that would make them a Candian team, and that would be a bad decision for Marvel, as it might influence sales negatively and serve to disenfranchise the American market. And what's X-Men, if not a franchise?

Not entirely true, the Australian Outback years were pretty popular.

Honestly, I never understood why the X-Men didn't leave the country after O:ZT. I mean, when your own country is sanctioning the hunting you and throwing everyone like you in death camps...

It's time to go.

[Pro]

But Marvel could at least have some X-Men (Gawd knows there are enough of them left) dedicated to trying to reverse M-Day. They could at least deal with the topic intermittently in the multiple X-Titles that come out every month.

Far be it from me to yet again point out the obvious (ehem): Joe Q doesn't want mutants repowered, he just wants you to buy books about mutants wanting to be repowered. Anything else is just excuses wrapped in a flimsy storyline.

[nikbackm]

But Marvel could at least have some X-Men (Gawd knows there are enough of them left) dedicated to trying to reverse M-Day. They could at least deal with the topic intermittently in the multiple X-Titles that come out every month.

Cable isn't even really dealing with it. He's just locked in this never ending battle with Bishop.

Who knows? Maybe some X-Men are dealing with it. But since the editorial apparently(?) does not want M-Day reversed nothing will ever come of it and it is thus not displayed.

[KiplingKat]

Far be it from me to yet again point out the obvious (ehem): Joe Q doesn't want mutants repowered, he just wants you to buy books about mutants wanting to be repowered. Anything else is just excuses wrapped in a flimsy storyline.

I know, I agree. I'm just pointing out how flimsy the storylines are. It is possible to be hamstrung by editorial mandate, and still write great stories. DPS came out of editorial mandate.

[tunasammiches]

Not entirely true, the Australian Outback years were pretty popular.

Honestly, I never understood why the X-Men didn't leave the country after O:ZT. I mean, when your own country is sanctioning the hunting you and throwing everyone like you in death camps...

It's time to go.

True dat. But the Outback years took place in the 80's, when Marvel's editorial decisions weren't totally driven by strategic marketing tactics that they're blatantly employing now. It's a different business world. I'm just hypothesizing here, but the way the Marvel books seem to be driven, and observing the editorial content of the different books, a lot of emphasis is being put on concepts like patriotism, anti-war commentary, political satire and mainstream cultural observations.