Diggle leaving Hellblazer

[FanboyStranger]

I was looking at the DC solicits last night, and it appears that HB 249 will be Andy Diggle's last issue, which is a shame as I had hoped that he would have the full 40-issue run that most of the major HB authors have had. Diggle's run thus far has really elevated the title from a long period of relative complacentcy (for Hellblazer, at least), and in my mind, it's solidly in third place behind Delano's and Ennis' respective runs.

So, I guess that leads to the question of who is taking over HB, which I assume will announced at San Diego. Rumor has it that British novelist Ian Rankin would be writing an arc, but who takes it from there? Simon Oliver, who is currently writing Chas: The Knowledge (very good first issue), Jason Aaron, who just finished a good two-part fill-in, and Si Spenser (grown within the Vertigo system, but little success so far with Vinyl Underground ending with 12) would seem to me to be the most likely names on the list. Delano, of course, has a HB OGN coming out soon and says that John is never far from his mind, so it might be possible that he may return to HB for another go-round as the book hits the stretch towards #300. And then, just to be a jerk, you never know if Neil Gaiman is going to return to comics and write the book he wanted before he developed Sandman.

So, let the speculation start: who is going to take over Hellblazer, why do you think so, and do you feel he/she will be a good fit? (I remember thinking that Diggle was a poor choice, and man, was I ever wrong!)

[NathanBethell]

Disappointing news, to say the least. I've really enjoyed Diggle's run. I'm pretty sure Aaron's contract at Marvel would preclude him becoming the regular HB writer (his two issue arc was already contracted before he signed with Marvel, IIRC). I wouldn't object to seeing what Spenser could do with HB, although, obviously, a Delano comeback would be the thing to cheer for.

[Agent_Torpor]

Frankly, Si Spencer underwhelmed me with VU.

I'd rather see a topnotch yank like Jason Aaron get the gig instead of a brit that's put out middling stuff, contract mularkey notwithstanding.

[matthewaos]

OMG!! This is terrible! I love Diggle's run, and though Aaron's story was really interesting, I would not like to see Diggle leave... Delano's latest "Narcoolis" wasn't that great, from what I heard...

[Robo Ape]

I noticed this too & was confused when I didn't see more of a fuss being made about it, especially as to who is to replace him.

His run on the title hasn't been anywhere near as long as I was hoping it would be.

Are any circumstances of his leaving the title known?

[dancj]

Hmmmm....
Peter Milligan
John Wagner

Actually (and I know loads of people will scoff at this idea) after his excellent run on Swamp Thing I'd be interested to see what Mark Millar could do on the title.

[FanboyStranger]

Hmmmm....
Peter Milligan
John Wagner

Actually (and I know loads of people will scoff at this idea) after his excellent run on Swamp Thing I'd be interested to see what Mark Millar could do on the title.

I agree that Millar would be an interesting choice and probably a good one as well. First, his tone, which often feels awkward when shoehorned into Marvel's superheroes, would fit better with Constantine's world, and his "shock" plot developments would be a lot less polarizing on a book like Hellblazer. Second, he does have a fairly diverse worldview that rarely informs his more mainstream work-- he is a Catholic lay minister and very well read in political science and history, two elements that could add some new dimensions to HB beyond "organized religion is bad" (most simplistically, Ennis' run, but throughout the whole series) and "all people in authority are corrupt (or about to be corrupted)". Third, I've always wanted to read the Constantine joining the lodge story Millar alluded to in his final Swamp Thing arc.

Peter Milligan is absolutely a good choice.

[A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.]

I've never really followed Hellblazer, only odd issues and arcs here and there, although I think I've read arcs by pretty much everyone who's considered a major HB-writer (with the exception of Diggle). I liked what I read of Jenkins and Philips' run, but judging about how little I read about it, I guess I'm pretty much the only one.

The thing that's always annoyed me about Hellblazer is that John Constantine as a character doesn't really seem fit to carry a book by himself. He's always best when he's more of a secondary character or a device to move the story along. The character of John Constanine gets too cliche for my tastes when he becomes the focal point of a series.

However, chances are I haven't read the best stuff (actually, most of the older stuff I've read are Norwegian reprints, so I couldn't really tell you what arcs they are, other than that they were from pretty early on, and written by Delano and Ennis).
The last things I read were a story by Denise Mina and Leonard Manco (IIRC) and the All His Engines GN. Both were pretty lackluster in that they took what is essentially a very good set-up and just let it peeter out into nothing.

Sorry for rambling on. This is probably the wrong thread to ask this question anyway, but what Hellblazer books should I read?

As for a new writer, I would be curious to check out both Rankin (whose one of extremely few modern mystery writers that I have any time for) and Milligan (who needs to get back to his Vertigo roots and who, probably more than anyone in this business, deserves a hit) if they were given the job.

[Libaax]

You havent read any near the best if you think JC cant carry the book himself or is too cliche. Mina and Jenkins runs are one of the weakest. Read Ennis and co. Thats what HB is most famous for Ennis run.


Diggle revived HB after the horrible run of Mina, im very sad to see him go i was also hoping for 40 issues run by him.

Rankin is a very good crime novelist but that doesnt mean he knows how to write the supernatural horror of JC world.

[Robo Ape]

Hmmmm....
Peter Milligan
John Wagner

Actually (and I know loads of people will scoff at this idea) after his excellent run on Swamp Thing I'd be interested to see what Mark Millar could do on the title.

Wasn't another crime novelist supposed to be taking over the writing at one point?

[bookguy]

I asked that very question on the Vertigo creators blog "Standard Attrition" and Simon Oliver (Exterminators) was the reply.

Dunno if its true or not.

I was gunning for Jason Aaron, but he's exclusively for Marvel (except for Scalped).

:cool:

[FanboyStranger]

Sorry for rambling on. This is probably the wrong thread to ask this question anyway, but what Hellblazer books should I read?

.

I would suggest either Ennis/Simpson's Dangerous Habits or Diggle/Manco's Joyride as probably the best place to start, even though they are all over the map as far as continuity. Or, go back to the beginning with Delano/Ridgway's Original Sins, which is great stuff, but does read a bit dated. (Delano's best arc, The Family Man, will be available as a trade later this year.)

Jenkins' run is all over the place, mostly because Jenkins was still a bit green as a comics writer (I think he had been an editor at Tundra who got the call when Eddie Campbell left HB to self-publish Bacchus). In my opinion, Jenkins is responsible for some of the finest single issues in the series, but his arcs generally fell apart towards their conclusion.

Carey's run was solid, but mostly unspectacular, again, in my opinion. His last storyline with Nergal was pretty good, and if nothing else, finally Leo Manco got his chance to escape from Marvel purgatory and work on a book he was suited for.

[FanboyStranger]

I asked that very question on the Vertigo creators blog "Standard Attrition" and Simon Oliver (Exterminators) was the reply.

Dunno if its true or not.

I was gunning for Jason Aaron, but he's exclusively for Marvel (except for Scalped).

:cool:

I had a sense it would be Oliver with Chas: The Knowledge serving as a test drive.

[Robo Ape]

I asked that very question on the Vertigo creators blog "Standard Attrition" and Simon Oliver (Exterminators) was the reply.

Dunno if its true or not.

I was gunning for Jason Aaron, but he's exclusively for Marvel (except for Scalped).

:cool:

Interesting choice, I have been following the Exterminators & thought it was pretty good series. Hope he takes the artist from the Exterminators with him.

[FanboyStranger]

Looks like Leo Manco will be departing as well. He's working on a War Machine monthly for Marvel, which I have admit has piqued my interest, although Greg Pak is hit or miss for me.

So, let artist speculation begin as well: Giuseppe Cammicoli? Sean Murphy? Goran Sudzuka (or Parlov)? Cliff Chiang? Peter Gross has been quiet lately, but still DC exclusive, I believe.

[matthewaos]

Looks like Leo Manco will be departing as well. He's working on a War Machine monthly for Marvel, which I have admit has piqued my interest, although Greg Pak is hit or miss for me.

So, let artist speculation begin as well: Giuseppe Cammicoli? Sean Murphy? Goran Sudzuka (or Parlov)? Cliff Chiang? Peter Gross has been quiet lately, but still DC exclusive, I believe.

Those are some weird moments. I am so sad that Manco is leaving, but the news of a War Machine are great. When is it going to be published, have you any idea?

God, I hate that Diggle is out of Hellblazer...

[Robo Ape]

Surely Vertigo's flagship title needs a decent creative team on it, so I am surprised their hasn't been more news on it.

[mauisunset]

Actually (and I know loads of people will scoff at this idea) after his excellent run on Swamp Thing I'd be interested to see what Mark Millar could do on the title.

Hurm...Seems from what I've read (and enjoyed) of his, it sems like he likes to work on a much bigger "scale" than is "appropriate" for John. Think Moore's Crisis tie-in ST issues. Out of place, even from the very best.

he is a Catholic lay minister and very well read in political science and history, two elements that could add some new dimensions to HB beyond "organized religion is bad" (most simplistically, Ennis' run, but throughout the whole series) and "all people in authority are corrupt (or about to be corrupted)"...

Yeah, why not junk the whole "magic" angle while you're at it. Thanks, but those two pillars of HB's philosophy is what makes it different and what made it make it to #300.

The thing that's always annoyed me about Hellblazer is that John Constantine as a character doesn't really seem fit to carry a book by himself. He's always best when he's more of a secondary character or a device to move the story along. The character of John Constanine gets too cliche for my tastes when he becomes the focal point of a series.)

Read more. Read better. Leading to...

The last things I read were a story by Denise Mina and Leonard Manco (IIRC) and the All His Engines GN. Both were pretty lackluster in that they took what is essentially a very good set-up and just let it peeter out into nothing.

If you'd compar All His Engines w/ Mina's run, maybe this just isn't the book for you. Also: read and enjoy Claremont, Byrne, Lee, and all early image books. Avoid like the plague: Moore, Ennis, Ellis, Morrison and "that 'Watchmen' thing." Get mad at me for snarking, or go reread AHE.

I was gunning for Jason Aaron, but he's exclusively for Marvel (except for Scalped)[I had a sense it would be Oliver with Chas: The Knowledge serving as a test drive.

Too bad. HB deserves an author with the integrity and confidence to offer to personally return your money, if you didn't enjoy his work (Scalped Vol. 2 IIRC). P.S. I doubt he spent too much on that ballsy move,considering Scalped is excellent.

Had Mina been so gracious, I think she'd be the proud owner of about 500,000 HB issues and a few trades.

I had a sense it would be Oliver with Chas: The Knowledge serving as a test drive.

Have the issh. and am looking forward to it, but he seems a little too jocular on Exterms for HB. A bit like Ennis, but without the same "heart." Although he's a gifted and interesting author. We'll see on the dry-run?

Looks like Leo Manco will be departing as well. He's working on a War Machine monthly for Marvel, which I have admit has piqued my interest, although Greg Pak is hit or miss for me.

So, let artist speculation begin as well: Giuseppe Cammicoli? Sean Murphy? Goran Sudzuka (or Parlov)? Cliff Chiang? Peter Gross has been quiet lately, but still DC exclusive, I believe.

War Machine? "Ugg-lee!" I hope he makes mint riding the IM wave,though. Manco's the epitome of underrated and brilliant, an artists' artist who's continually improved and strived despite rarely being given credit due. Go put the kids through school and then come back home, Mr. Manco. Please?!?

finally Leo Manco got his chance to escape from Marvel purgatory and work on a book he was suited for.

Yep.

Moving along... Not mentioned: Frusin. The definative HB artist after Dillon and before Manco. Another underrated genius who I'd love to see come back. These three artists have defied conventions and invested in a great tradion... Had only more Vert. series strived to have such skilled artists.

Delano's latest "Narcoolis" wasn't that great, from what I heard...

And just about from what I've read (them all so far-he's had some goodies, but seems inconsistant. from what I've read. Personally I hope he slipsquirts his workjerk from this booklook. (And if you're gonna rip/"continue the tradition" of 1984/ Brave New World, don't fuck around. I'm not the biggest "V for Vendetta" fan, but Moore wasn't just phoning it in.


And yeah, too bad Diggle's leaving so soon. I was enjoying his stuff (lthough I'm not current-I've been waiting to read the full arcs lately.)


Are any circumstances of his leaving the title known?

Good call there, Mr. Ape. Rings of Ellis' far-too-short run (think they'd pay him in whichever suit's teeth made that decision to come back now?)


Must be the same guy who hand delivered an awesome 60-ish, damn-near-monthly, finite story from messirs Ennis and Robertson cause it "made fun of superman."

Sorry to say, but, as a diehard fan, and someone who's enjoyed and followed Vertigo as a great brand, despite it being owned by one of those soul-crushing mega-conglomerates, I'm finally convinced this is the twitching death of what was once a fine institution.

Maybe have anything to do with the "new contracts"? Yeh think? (circa LITG).

Ya know WB, if a third if your movies were a third as good as the bottom third of Vert's books, I'd buy nine times more of your product (good accounting, everyone?)

Look forward to lot's more "Madame-what's-her-fuck" and a whole lot less of:

Sandman
Invisibles
Preacher
Transmet
WE3
Exterminators
etc.
etc.
etc.

Great thinking WB. Put on some Brittney and feed me a gas-station hot-dog while you're at it. Or keep stepping on your toes via ElvesQuest.

What an amazing, original concept: if a creator actuially OWNS their properties (like in the book- sorry, real- world) they actually put more into it. I just feel sorry for poor Karen Burger whose been not only a trailblazer, but an unparalelled business woman, and a great ambassador for comics to the world. She's probably less-than-happy with the new "marching orders."

Image and Avatar are looking better and better...

[Libaax]

I really hope Manco isnt gone, he is by far the best artist i have seen draw HB and specially his awesome look for JC.

I think he could easily draw to comics monthly.

DC cant be stupid enough to lose both of them at the same time.... i hope....

It would be too much to lose the best artist and Diggle who revived HB :(

[FanboyStranger]

Those are some weird moments. I am so sad that Manco is leaving, but the news of a War Machine are great. When is it going to be published, have you any idea?
...

Planned for December, I believe.

[Libaax]

I will pick War Machine because Manco and Pak are new big favorits of mine after Hellblazer and Hulk but i will weep like a girl if Manco leaves HB.


I hope they announce something soon, if he will stay or go. Not knowing is annoying.

[matthewaos]

Other good news, though not for Hellblazer, is that Diggle will be writing Thunderbolts. So I think that after Ellis, this title will continue to be amazing.

[Libaax]

In this thread we are suppose to mourn losing Diggle and Manco not being happy that they go to marvel :wink:


DC letting all the good creators go over to Marvel is seriously bad bizz and annoying me.

[FanboyStranger]

I guess I jumped the gun on Manco leaving-- Karen Berger confirmed he will still be the artist when Simon Oliver takes over the title with #250. Now, whether or not he stays on once War Machine starts in December is anyone's guess. I've always thought of him as a "10 issues a year" artist, but he has worked on multiple books at once in the past. Plus, I think he may run a studio that includes his wife.

Ian Rankin is not writing HB, but a OGN for Vertigo Crime that will feature Constantine, which means we're essentially getting two HB OGNs in the near future.

Finally, Andy Diggle did not leave HB because he was dissatisified or "forced out by corporate", but felt he had told the story he wanted to tell and wants to move onto projects that could feature giant robots and explosions. He felt it was an honor to write Hellblazer, and is very proud of the work he did on the title.

[Libaax]

Still IMO if they were smart they shouldnt let him go this early in his HB run.


I know Rankin GN which other OGN HB is there in the near future ?

[Maestro]

pity pity. Vertigo's loss is Marvel's gain! :biggrin:

[bookguy]

It's been announced at the SDCC '08, that Leonard Marco will remain with Hellblazer (even though he's doing WAR MACHINE).

Rest easy Marco fans, rest easy. :biggrin:

[dancj]

Hurm...Seems from what I've read (and enjoyed) of his, it sems like he likes to work on a much bigger "scale" than is "appropriate" for John. Think Moore's Crisis tie-in ST issues. Out of place, even from the very best.

I don't know. He did some great small scale stories in his Swamp Thing run - particularly the Swamp Dog issue.

[Robo Ape]

Simon Oliver seems a natural choice considering his track record.

[matthewaos]

It's been announced at the SDCC '08, that Leonard Marco will remain with Hellblazer (even though he's doing WAR MACHINE).

Rest easy Marco fans, rest easy. :biggrin:

Oh, this is awesome! Manco on War Machine, AND not leaving Hellblazer?? GREAT!!!!

As for Diggle, it's nice that he ends his run whenever he sees fit. However, I am saddened to see him leave, his run is amazing.

[CoreyB]

Still IMO if they were smart they shouldnt let him go this early in his HB run.

What are they supposed to do, force him to stay on the book so that he forces out mediocre stories he doesn't want to write? It's crucial for creative people to know when it's time to go. If he's done what he wants to, he shouldn't be pressured to stay longer and put out stuff no one will be happy with.

[Robo Ape]

Thing is how did the writer of a series that got axed after only 30 issues, though it was a good series, get this new job?

Might they not be concerned it would affect sales if his track record shows his last title had trouble finding an audience?

[FanboyStranger]

Thing is how did the writer of a series that got axed after only 30 issues, though it was a good series, get this new job?

Might they not be concerned it would affect sales if his track record shows his last title had trouble finding an audience?

Hellblazer is an established book with an established fan base, and Oliver is having a try-out of sorts with Chas: The Knowledge. Historically, Hellblazer has featured newer talent (at least to American fans), and it's only been since Ellis' run that more established names have taken over the book.

This is a lot different than starting up a new series.

[Libaax]

I read Chas : The Knowledge 1 last night. He got the tone right. Cynical,dark enough to be a HB writer clearly. There were some lines that cracked up too which is always promising.

"Mocha-faggalatte " hahahaha :D


If he doesnt ruin the other issues of Chas he can be a good HB writer.

I also read his edioterial page, it was interesting seeing his connection to Hackney cab drivers and i agree its shocking it took 20 years for a Chas mini. I have always digged Chas :)

[cpahl2000]

It´s bad because Andy was doing an excellent job, he continue to portrait John the way I love. I hope Simon Oliver could make a good work, just like his Chas mini.

DC said Leonardo will stay but he will do War Machine. Who is right ?

[Libaax]

It´s bad because Andy was doing an excellent job, he continue to portrait John the way I love. I hope Simon Oliver could make a good work, just like his Chas mini.

DC said Leonardo will stay but he will do War Machine. Who is right ?


Both are right since both has officially confirmed that piece of news.

Its not impossible for an artist to work on two comics monthly.

War Machine wont be out for several months anyway. In that time he can prolly finish doing the art for 3-5 issues of HB.

[cpahl2000]

Both are right since both has officially confirmed that piece of news.

Its not impossible for an artist to work on two comics monthly.

War Machine wont be out for several months anyway. In that time he can prolly finish doing the art for 3-5 issues of HB.


It´s good because Leonardo has been doing an amazing job and find another terrific artist that fitted so well on Helblazer is hard.

[Agent_Torpor]

It´s good because Leonardo has been doing an amazing job and find another terrific artist that fitted so well on Helblazer is hard.

I'd love to see the guy (Camuncoli?) who's doing House of Mystery - but not at the expense of HoM!

[Libaax]

I'd love to see the guy (Camuncoli?) who's doing House of Mystery - but not at the expense of HoM!

I liked Camuncoli after his fill in issue in HB. He is my first back up for Manco if he leaves.

If he was the artist for the latest Aaron issues they would have been much better....

[stealthwise]

Hellblazer's monthly sales have been in the toilet for years and there hasn't been a writer of impact in even longer.

Vertigo should do something bold and get Neil Gaiman or Grant Morrison to do a long arc on the title.

[cpahl2000]

I liked Camuncoli after his fill in issue in HB. He is my first back up for Manco if he leaves.

If he was the artist for the latest Aaron issues they would have been much better....


I don´t like Camuncoli art but Sean Murphy was horrible.

[Libaax]

Hellblazer's monthly sales have been in the toilet for years and there hasn't been a writer of impact in even longer.

Vertigo should do something bold and get Neil Gaiman or Grant Morrison to do a long arc on the title.


Something bold ? Give me a break a-list names isnt guaranty for quality HB stories.


HB monthly sales arent important. It would have been canceled in the 90s if monthly was that important for Vertigo. It isnt worse than many vertigo comics that go on for years.


Neil Gaiman i would read but not GM after his ego run of Bats.

A Writer of impact ? Diggle was great. No A-list will ever make HB or other Vertigo sell well in monthlies.


Sorry but your post was ignorant to me. There have been great runs,sales doesnt mean quality. You should know by now if you are Vertigo fans.

Superhero will always sell 1000 times more than Gaiman like authors best works.

[Robo Ape]

Hellblazer's monthly sales have been in the toilet for years and there hasn't been a writer of impact in even longer.

Vertigo should do something bold and get Neil Gaiman or Grant Morrison to do a long arc on the title.

Surprised to hear that. I have always assumed because it's kept going so long that it had strong sales. I suppose sales of the trade paperbacks have been propping it up.

[Agent_Torpor]

Surprised to hear that. I have always assumed because it's kept going so long that it had strong sales. I suppose sales of the trade paperbacks have been propping it up.

I think that could be said of ANY vertigo title. TPB sales are what floats the boat. And it's been that way for pretty much ever.

[Libaax]

I think that could be said of ANY vertigo title. TPB sales are what floats the boat. And it's been that way for pretty much ever.

Yeah its always surprising to see Vertigo fans that dont know how bad the monthlies sales are.


Speaking about Camuncoli he doesnt DO the art of House of Mystery.

You confuse him with some other artist. You gave me false hope cause i would be glad to see him as a regular series of another Vertigo series.

[Robo Ape]

Yeah its always surprising to see Vertigo fans that dont know how bad the monthlies sales are.


Speaking about Camuncoli he doesnt DO the art of House of Mystery.

You confuse him with some other artist. You gave me false hope cause i would be glad to see him as a regular series of another Vertigo series.

It's a shame as the whole Vertigo line deserves a higher profile & better sales than it has at the moment.

[Libaax]

It's a shame as the whole Vertigo line deserves a higher profile & better sales than it has at the moment.

Im not worried about the high profile. Its just needs a new generation of awesome series. Like 100 Bullets,Y The Last etc

It deserves better sales but as long as the quality vertigo comics stay alive thanks to trades im fine.

[matthewaos]

I think that Scalped can be one of those great titles Vertigo is publishing at times. Other than that, I think Hellblazer was (is) a great title under Diggle, but most other titles are not that great.

[Robo Ape]

Be interesting to see how well the new series last as the last lot like Crossing Midnight & The Exterminators didn't do too well.

[dancj]

It's a shame as the whole Vertigo line deserves a higher profile & better sales than it has at the moment.
Well maybe, but we don't actually know the sales. All we see are the direct market sales and where Vertigo books are concerned they don't come close to giving the whole picture