What X-Men arc is the Best to give to a new reader?

[Bamf25]

If a friend says they are willing to give the X-Men a try, what story arc is the best to get them into it?

[Quinnhop]

Morrison's New X-Men or Carey's X-Men.

[Jake V]

Morrison's New X-Men or Carey's X-Men.

Uh, no. New readers will become ex-readers once they realize it's all downhill from there.

Start them with something mediocre from the 90's. If they can tolerate that they'll be readers for life.

[Brett P]

I'm considering giving Whedons Astonishing to someone to try who liked BKV's Runaways when she borrowed it

[Victorious]

Whedon's Astonishing & Morrison's New X-Men are great for an introduction to the X-Men. Great minis like X-23, NYX or Maddox too.

[KiplingKat]

I also agree that Whedon's Astonishing is probably the best choice for modern readers. You don't have to know a ton of back story to pick it up and enjoy it.

Balancing not needing to know a lot of back story to enjoy it, great storytelling, characters that are still active in the books, and a wide range of stories with dramatic high notes with the widest variety of characters...

From The Ashes. (Which is Uncanny #'s168 to 176)

That is not just Scott and Madelyn's story, but Rogue joining the X-Men, Kitty Pryde forcing her way back onto the X-Men, Storm becoming leader of the Morlocks, and Logan's aborted wedding to Mariko.

Dark Phoenix Saga it an amazing story, but I think if you want to sell the person on these characters, they get a better showcase in From the Ashes.

A lot of the later stuff would be impossible to follow if you didn't know the characters or what was going on. Handing someone who had never read the X-Men before Inferno or Messiah CompleX would just leave them utterly confused.

[Affinity]

I said Morrison's but I don't know if I agree with that anymore.

I would give a friend Morrison's. A new reader I don't know would be harder.

[ClanAskani]

The God Loves Man Kills graphic novel is a great place to start for new readers.

[Wind-Breaker]

Well for the most recent status quo I'd pick Messiah Complex, its a good story that gives them of taste of what each X-Book has to offer. New X-Men is pre-M Day, and that would take crap load of collecting for them to get up to speed. Plus the Planet X/Xorneto fiasco and all the other things Marvel reversed in Morrison's run, they could avoid that confusion all together. Uncanny X-Men #500, Astonishing X-Men#26, and X-Factor #33 are good start off points to give them a fresh start if they just want to jump in.

[KiplingKat]

The God Loves Man Kills graphic novel is a great place to start for new readers.

Yes, good call.

That IS the X-Men in a nutshell.

[xgeek52]

depends on how new they are...

if they're just starting out, definantly messiah...

if they're returning after a long time i must reluctantly say morrison...

[B. Kuwanger]

The current books would be good, but Astonishing is the clear winner. It depends on the person, though. If they're already into Marvel you could go with Messiah Complex, if they're looking for classic stuff the Phoenix saga is a no-brainer. I would only recommend New X-Men to people who are already into Morrison, since all of the extinction rambling, Scott/Jean complications, and terribly drawn issues might disinterest anyone else. Also not the best way to meet Magneto.

[rwsmith]

Morrison's run. It's pretty much the coolest the X-men have ever been, and very accessible for mainstream audiences.

[Gene M.]

I said Morrison, too, even though I would only give them E is for Extinction. Those three issues have a similar enough "feel" to the movies that it might hook a new reader.

[rwsmith]

Yeah, give them 'E is for Extinction' for sure. That ought to get them hooked, then give them the Uncanny X-men Omnibus so they can read a bunch of the history. After that, Astonishing X-men. Then he or she will be a full-fledged X-fan for life. Guaranteed.

[Bamf25]

I said Dark Phoenix because I got my wife to read that story a few years back and she proceeded to read the next 100 issue or so.

[Gene M.]

Yeah, give them 'E is for Extinction' for sure. That ought to get them hooked, then give them the Uncanny X-men Omnibus so they can read a bunch of the history. After that, Astonishing X-men. Then he or she will be a full-fledged X-fan for life. Guaranteed.
That would do it. Maybe throw in CC and Miller's Wolverine for good measure. Still the best thing CC's ever written, IMO.

[Omega Alpha]

Most of the ones on the list are crossovers, which are not usually a good place to begin with.

I'm thinking Grant Morrison or Joss Whedon's runs or God Loves, Man Kills are the ideal starting points.

[Christopher O]

"E is for Extinction" is the way to go. It's a great story, and it doesn't have clunky, forced dialogue that makes you want to shoot yourself in the head like most of the choices listed.

[Slung]

Morrison's run was great, but not at all a good call for new readers. Those are issues where characters change from what they were for years. You have to see the characters before you can appreciate the changes.

Astonishing might work better, because its so self-contained.

Dark Phoenix Saga might be a good place for many start, but whoever said God Loves Man Kills I think was on the money.

[Dreighton]

I voted Dark Phoenix Saga, as I think it's classic super heroes. Morrison's run was great, but a little out there. I'm not sure some of the stuff would have much impact for a new reader not having a feel for the characters.

But the one book I'd give em on 2nd thought would be....God Love Man Kills...for sure. It's THE X-men story. If they like that, then you can go from there.

[frog]

I'll add my vote for God Loves, Man Kills. It best expresses what the X-Men are all about.

[DeniseXfrost]

Grant morrison's run for sure....why's there no AXM option?

[metalgorgomon]

For a new reader, I would recommend Astonishing X-Men (Whedon), although it's a self contained series it's quite close to current status of the X-Men.

Followed by Messiah Complex for the most recent status quo of the X-Men.


If he/she also interested in classic stuff, I would recommend the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus (Claremont) since it introduced the first appearance of 2nd Generation of X-men (some of them are also very popular via Video Game/Movies, eg. Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler). Dark Phoenix Saga and Mutant Massacre are also classic must-haves.

[em4r1z]

Byrne and Claremont's issues, it all started there.

[Vegetarian Goat]

I chose "From the Ashes"- I've had quite a few friends become fans after reading that. There are enough separate stories contained within those issues, and enough themes that are mirrored in the movies that a new fan wouldn't become overwhelmed. There are recognizable characters, and spot-on characterization and art. Plus, it's got the classic lineup that most people will find familiar.

On the other hand, i think that while it's easily an example of the best X-Men has had to offer in some time, Morrison's run wouldn't be something i'd give to a brand new fan. It can feel disjointed while reading it, even if it isn't actually disjointed by the time it ends, and the theme of the story is more about deconstructing the x-men, as opposed to celebrating what they're all about. It's grade A material, but i'd say more for a seasoned fan, or at least one who's more than mildly interested.

[Novaya Havoc]

Essential Dazzler Vol. 1.

[Dagger]

Essential Dazzler Vol. 1.
Plus Dazzler: The Movie GN.

[rZi]

Astonishing X-Men #1-25+Giant size would work nicely.

Get a sense of the characters without being too held down in continuity.

Morrison's run kinda sets that run up though....

[timbox]

Morrison's run followed closely by God Loves, Man Kills.

Also, Astonishing.

[insidemyhead]

I lent a Whedonite friend Morrison's run to read and get some background before she started Astonishing, and she really enjoyed them both.

[Mister Mets]

The Wizard X-Men Masterpiece Edition is probably the best introduction.
http://www.amazon.com/Wizard-X-Men-Masterpiece-Chris-Claremont/dp/0974325317/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216651272&sr=8-4

It pretty much has the best of Claremont/ Byrne, in addition to an excellent Magneto fight (the first time Magneto was portrayed in a sympathetic manner.)

God Loves, Man Kills is also exceptional and accessible, in addition to the similarities with X-Men 2.

Morrison's run suffers from inconsistent art, though it is excellent.

Whedon's run is best enjoyed by those who have read Claremont/ Byrne, Claremont/ Smith and Morrison.

[valechan]

X-Men 70, the best single-issue story EVER

[darknessatnoon]

Tell us which you gave your friend, Bamf, and if he/she enjoyed it.

[Dagger]

I enjoyed From the Ashes the most from all of those titles. We got some excellent Kitty moments, featured the most exciting Storm I have ever read, got bland, boring Carol Danvers away from this book, and added Rogue to the roster. Plus, had the awesome Wolvie/Silver Samurai fight, which still to this day remains one of my favorite fights involving Wolverine.

[Xoote]

I would say Dark Phoenix Saga

[Arrogantcur]

For me there is no question at all: Dark Phoenix Saga. It's a very good story and you don't have to be aware of all the history to fully understand what's going on (as you do with, say, Inferno).

I read the Dark Phoenix Saga reprinted in Classic X-Men shortly after I started reading Uncanny X-Men and was confused by the latter title. "Who's this Banshee guy? Who was Roma? What's a Morlock? Who are these Freedom Force people? What's the deal with this Shadow King?" And so on. I enjoyed the story well enough, but I didn't know any of this, I didn't have any friends who were familiar with the history that I could ask, and this was before the internet and even longer before Wikipedia.

I had a lot fewer questions with the reprinted story, almost none in fact. Everything was pretty self-explanatory and back then CC put more expositionary captions and recapping into his stories, making them very new-reader friendly.

[Pro]

back then CC put more expositionary captions and recapping into his stories, making them very new-reader friendly.

Typical Claremont script:

Banshee flies over the brotherhood.

Banshee thinks:"I am Banshee, an irishman who used to be a thief and now i'm an x-man with sonic powers. I hope we'll win this battle or i won't see my daughter Syrin again which would be bad seeing how i lost my wife already. Oh yea Black Tom is my cousin and i feel like eating a potato .. ".

Banshee plunges into battle.

:p

[Flâneur]

Messiah Complex would be one of the worst possible choices to give to a new reader. Crossovers are generally designed to boost sales from fans who want to follow their characters, not so much new readers.

I also realised, when I was trying to get my sister into it, that going from A to B isn't necessarily the best thing to do. It's too meticulous, too much bother and just too intimidating for someone with a casual interest. You don't need to and really shouldn't start someone on CC's old stuff because that's not what the comics are right now. Reading CC's run was fine for people who learned about the X-men from the old 90s cartoon because it used some of his old plots so you could hit the ground running (or if you were around when it came out and have read since then) but for the people who know from the movie ... not really.

If you're looking to hook someone up to modern X-men, work through the Morrison/Whedon bubble. It has an all star and distinct cast where people won't get too confused and someone new to comics won't really notice the shift in tone, so it'll feel continuous. E for Extinction, the first arc of Morrison's run, is also very close to the movies in its way.

Summary: Morrison/Whedon. Stay away, far away, from anything else until you've read that.

[newscott]

Dark Phoenix Saga is easy to approach, has easily recognizable characters, and clean, clear art.

It has high drama, good action, and isn't bogged down by clones, alternate histories, uncertain futures or convoluted histories.

It's the best choice.

[Christopher O]

Dark Phoenix Saga is easy to approach, has easily recognizable characters, and clean, clear art.

It has high drama, good action, and isn't bogged down by clones, alternate histories, uncertain futures or convoluted histories.
It just has some of the worst dialogue ever.

[Arrogantcur]

Typical Claremont script:

Banshee flies over the brotherhood.

Banshee thinks:"I am Banshee, an irishman who used to be a thief and now i'm an x-man with sonic powers. I hope we'll win this battle or i won't see my daughter Syrin again which would be bad seeing how i lost my wife already. Oh yea Black Tom is my cousin and i feel like eating a potato .. ".

Banshee plunges into battle.

:p

Still better than thinking "WTF?" every five pages. :wink:

[newscott]

It just has some of the worst dialogue ever.

I disagree. It's not art, but it's fine.

The characters come off in their purest forms. Wolverine is gruff, Scott's stuck up, Kitty's a little whiny but a good person.

All of the characters are easily recognizable from their dialogue, even if it is a bit wooden.

I think if you're trying to get someone into X-Men (not comics in general), then you're doing them a disservice by not starting with Dark Phoenix.

[Agent_Torpor]

Typical Claremont script:

Banshee flies over the brotherhood.

Banshee thinks:"I am Banshee, an irishman who used to be a thief and now i'm an x-man with sonic powers. I hope we'll win this battle or i won't see my daughter Syrin again which would be bad seeing how i lost my wife already. Oh yea Black Tom is my cousin and i feel like eating a potato .. ".

Banshee plunges into battle.

:p



Claremont's over-the-top explanations grew tiresome the second time you read about "Wolverine's adamantium-laced skeleton, indestructible, la la la la".

How 'bout not catering to the newbies that need every single thing spelled out for them at the expense of long-term readers? That's one great thing about the current comic milieu.

As far as the original query, Morrison's run. For sure.

[Arrogantcur]

Claremont's over-the-top explanations grew tiresome the second time you read about "Wolverine's adamantium-laced skeleton, indestructible, la la la la".

How 'bout not catering to the newbies that need every single thing spelled out for them at the expense of long-term readers? That's one great thing about the current comic milieu.

He's far from the only guy to do that, though. Like they say, every issue is somebody's first.

[Christopher O]

He's far from the only guy to do that, though. Like they say, every issue is somebody's first.
And yet television has managed to get by just fine without explaining every single thing every single episode. Imagine that.

[newscott]

And yet television has managed to get by just fine without explaining every single thing every single episode. Imagine that.

Have they? You want to recommend what's the best jumping on point for Lost, or Battlestar Galactica, or Heroes?

I wouls say: the first episode, otherwise you'll get a little lost. *heh*

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Gonna have to go with UXM 100-107. Good stories that weren't too long or too crazy/convoluted.

That being said, about any 10 random consecutive issues ranging from UXM 96 to 133 (before DPS made it to space, eh) could do the trick.

[Dagger]

Have they? You want to recommend what's the best jumping on point for Lost, or Battlestar Galactica, or Heroes?

I wouls say: the first episode, otherwise you'll get a little lost. *heh*
Plus Desperate Housewives have a little re-cap at the beginning of each show to show the viewers what had happened previously, so even television shows have recap pages.

[Flâneur]

Have they? You want to recommend what's the best jumping on point for Lost, or Battlestar Galactica, or Heroes?

I wouls say: the first episode, otherwise you'll get a little lost. *heh*
Not the most valid comparison:

This generation is practically trained in watching television and people have no problem playing catch up if they start in the middle, I know that I don't.
TV shows also cover a smaller amount of time and don't change stylistically or thematically to any great degree between episodes, as opposed to entire runs on a comic book.
There is no point whatsoever in telling them to start in the middle if they can start at the beginning of a season because there are only about 20 episodes in a season.
As TV shows cover smaller periods, the reveals and gags are more important so spoilers are an issue. Not so much in comics where the set up only spans one run which is simply a small portion of the thousand + issues available.
TV shows have recaps at the beginning of most episodes, anyway.


Your suggestion is more akin to making someone watch the old Battlestar so as to understand the re-imagined version currently being shown. They're so far apart stylistically that it doesn't matter and you can't exactly spoil the old version by watching the new

[newscott]

Not the most valid comparison:
[...]
Your suggestion is more akin to making someone watch the old Battlestar so as to understand the re-imagined version currently being shown. They're so far apart stylistically that it doesn't matter and you can't exactly spoil the old version by watching the new

Except that it wasn't my comparison, it was Christopher O's, when he said:


And yet television has managed to get by just fine without explaining every single thing every single episode. Imagine that.

I agree that it's a faulty comparison. I think a recap page or in-story exposition is a good thing.

I also think that if you wanted to interest someone in the X-Men, that the best place to start is with the Dark Phoenix Saga. The characters are all pretty recognizable, they don't deviate too far from what people may have learned about them from the cartoon or the movies, it's a good story and it really lays all the groundwork for reading more of the X-Men later.

That's not to say I don't love other X-Books. My favorite time was the Outback X-Men, and I like Morrison's run an awful lot, but I would (and have) choose to give someone new to the x-verse Dark Phoenix to start off.

[Flâneur]

Except that it wasn't my comparison, it was Christopher O's, when he said:
You must've missed the part where you used the example of starting from the beginning so as to not be 'lost'. You don't need to start from the beginning to keep up in your example and starting at the beginning means something entirely different for a TV show than a comic.

I agree that it's a faulty comparison. I think a recap page or in-story exposition is a good thing.
It's a comparison in your use of it where someone maybe 'lost' without starting from the beginning. Hence my Battlestar Galactica point.

With the lengthy in-story exposition, we have visuals, like we do with film and other narrative techniques. We don't need Warren flying around while the exposition says something like 'and Warren flew into the air.' It' superfluous and clunky. Visual mediums have long done without it.

It also caters to current audiences - I mentioned people are trained into watching TV. They understand the visual cues much more easily. Prose on the other hand gives an unfortunate amount of people a headache.

[darknessatnoon]

Prose on the other hand gives an unfortunate amount of people a headache.

It does. I was only able to skim this discussion.

[Christopher O]

I think a recap page at the beginning is fine--and comic books are doing that now anyway--but clunky exposition given by someone who is already terrible with dialogue in the first place is NOT fine. I would never start anyone off with Claremont--and I haven't. I recently got a friend into the X-Men via Morrison and Whedon, and now he's ready to navigate Claremont.

[Flâneur]

It does. I was only able to skim this discussion.

LOL

I love your posting style. Teach me!

[Siddon]

I voted X-cutioners song, it's an opus that's new reader friendly fairly exciting and indicative of the X-Universe. A number of other choices are great stories but they are to unique, God Loves Man Kills is a great story but the X-men don't really tell those major one-shot sort of stories anymore (I think X-men Prime was the last). Morrison's New X-men is great Morrison work but that hyper dense formatting is even rarer. Messiah Complex is a good story but it needs way to much back story, I don't think you can go into that story cold especially with the characterizations of New X-men and X-factor.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I find that not letting a person read anything about the conventional X-Men teams and rather giving them the address to web summaries about the oldie moldie mutants best. I'd rather give them something that is newer or something that they can grow along side is better. Say New X-Men, and possibly Young X-Men. Anything where you don't see the old characters in it nearly as much as the new ones is the way to go. :biggrin:

[Arrogantcur]

I think a recap page at the beginning is fine--and comic books are doing that now anyway--but clunky exposition given by someone who is already terrible with dialogue in the first place is NOT fine. I would never start anyone off with Claremont--and I haven't. I recently got a friend into the X-Men via Morrison and Whedon, and now he's ready to navigate Claremont.

Okay, tell me if you consider the following "clunky exposition"...

But even as deadly machinations are set in motion a half a world away--in New York, all is not as it seems. The Thunderbolts are not the heroes their admirers and enemies think them to be. In actuality, they are the Masters of Evil, an elite cadre of super-villains posing as saviors to win the world's confidence, and worm their way past its defenses. Still, on a gorgeous spring day in Manhattan, schemes and disguises seem somehow irrelevant.

I don't think there's any problem with that at all. If you do, take it up with Kurt Busiek. He should be around here somewhere...

EDIT: Typical Claremont script:

Banshee flies over the brotherhood.

Banshee thinks:"I am Banshee, an irishman who used to be a thief and now i'm an x-man with sonic powers. I hope we'll win this battle or i won't see my daughter Syrin again which would be bad seeing how i lost my wife already. Oh yea Black Tom is my cousin and i feel like eating a potato .. ".

Banshee plunges into battle.

:p

Judging by other stuff Claremont wrote, it'd probably go more like this...

Banshee flies over the Brotherhood.

Caption: His name is Sean Cassidy. He's been many things in the course of his life: criminal, law enforcement officer, and now X-Man. He's also a mutant, born with abilities that set him apart from his fellow man. While this is a double-edged sword, he's grateful for it right now. Those abilities may just allow him to save the lives of his friends today...

Banshee plunges into battle.

[Flâneur]

Someone needs to post that panel where Psylocke talks for three paragraphs, telling us she's been mind blasted by the incredible focused totality of a diabolical telepathic opponent with malicious intent etc. She's standing there, in the midst of falling over with a grimace of pain and she gives this extended soliloquy. Fucking lol.

[Christopher O]

I do think it's clunky--not nearly as clunky as Claremont who we're actually discussing--but yeah, it's clunky. Of course, I don't think Busiek is very good at dialogue either. His strengths are in other areas. Then again, that out of context example is a bit of narration I assume and not a speech delivered by a character. Narration gets a little more leeway when it comes to that--a little.

[Arrogantcur]

I do think it's clunky--not nearly as clunky as Claremont who we're actually discussing--but yeah, it's clunky. Of course, I don't think Busiek is very good at dialogue either. His strengths are in other areas. Then again, that out of context example is a bit of narration I assume and not a speech delivered by a character. Narration gets a little more leeway when it comes to that--a little.

Characters shouldn't be thinking, much less saying, stuff that they already know (the exception being when the character is narrating). I agree.

There's nothing wrong with narration. It's an effective tool for letting us know things that we can't see on-panel. Also, in both of the examples I posted it took up, what, a couple of paragraphs? That's nothing.

[Christopher O]

There's nothing wrong with narration. It's an effective tool for letting us know things that we can't see on-panel. Also, in both of the examples I posted it took up, what, a couple of paragraphs? That's nothing.
Well, the example you posted could also be revealed through the story. If it has already been revealed, then it belongs on a recap page. That kind of thing takes up unnecessary space, which is why you don't see it much anymore.

[newscott]

You must've missed the part where you used the example of starting from the beginning so as to not be 'lost'. You don't need to start from the beginning to keep up in your example and starting at the beginning means something entirely different for a TV show than a comic.

It's a comparison in your use of it where someone maybe 'lost' without starting from the beginning. Hence my Battlestar Galactica point.

[...]

It also caters to current audiences - I mentioned people are trained into watching TV. They understand the visual cues much more easily. Prose on the other hand gives an unfortunate amount of people a headache.

Sure, you don't NEED to start from the beginning, but that's not the question I asked.

Where would you recommend a new viewer start? I would, for my examples, say episode 1.

Regardless, I still stand by my suggestion. If I were to try to get a reader into X-Men, I would use Dark Phoenix Saga. There's very little that could dissuade me from that choice, even my preferences for later stories. I would not recommend my favorite issues because I think that DPS is the best place to jump on.

[streator]

i would say morrison's 'e is for extinction' or whedon's 'gifted'. both are great opening arcs in my mind.

[darknessatnoon]

Sure, you don't NEED to start from the beginning, but that's not the question I asked.

Where would you recommend a new viewer start? I would, for my examples, say episode 1.

Regardless, I still stand by my suggestion. If I were to try to get a reader into X-Men, I would use Dark Phoenix Saga. There's very little that could dissuade me from that choice, even my preferences for later stories. I would not recommend my favorite issues because I think that DPS is the best place to jump on.

DPS if you're trying to convince new readers to join SM societies. E is for Extinction if you want to appeal to their good taste.

[jarrod]

The Arena.

[newscott]

DPS if you're trying to convince new readers to join SM societies. E is for Extinction if you want to appeal to their good taste.

S&M Societies? Really?

Thanks darknessatnoon. You criticism of my choice is both eloquent and thought provoking.

E is for Extinction is very good. I like Morrison and I like Quitely, but I think that the book is a little weird, that the storytelling relies on the reader having some knowledge of the x-verse before delving into it, and that a new reader would be more likely to be turned off by it.