non-english language books

[mattx110]

I'm trying to find a french-language text (Histoire de ma Vie, Jacques Casanova, also known as Giacamo, I know).

I was wondering if anyone knew a good online source for this sort of thing, and maybe what other works of literature are out there. I'm trying to learn French by translating word for word a page a day until I get good at it (maybe use phonetic flash cards for pronunciation). Sort of, do the things I didn't have the intelligence or focus to do in high school.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Wikipedia's Histoire de ma vie page links to this (http://www-syscom.univ-mlv.fr/~vignat/Html/Casanova/) text in PDF format.

It's only on Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page) in English, but there's lots of texts in French (http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/fr) there. Click around. Or Cliquez autour, comme vous voulez.

[mattx110]

Thanks, I didn't even think of that. I kinda prefer reading in book format, and I'm not sure I can afford the ink to print all of it, but I'll try bits at a time. I'm going to be reading at a very slow speed. Don't know french at all, but I've got a dictionary!

[Sir Tim Drake]

You can order a reasonably priced copy here:

http://www.amazon.com/Histoire-ma-vie-Morceaux-choisis/dp/2070377601/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1215927149&sr=11-1

How did I find this? I went to fnac.com, which is kind of the French version of Borders and Barnes & Noble, and searched for a cheap edition of the book. Then I copied the ISBN number of that edition, and searched for it on Amazon.com.

As for other works of French literature, big chain bookstores often have them in stock, although the selection tends to be limited. Such books also sometimes show up at book sales or used bookstores. If you're looking for a list of what French literary texts are worth reading, then you could check out some of the lists on this page (http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/greatbks.html).

[mattx110]

You can order a reasonably priced copy here:

http://www.amazon.com/Histoire-ma-vie-Morceaux-choisis/dp/2070377601/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1215927149&sr=11-1

How did I find this? I went to fnac.com, which is kind of the French version of Borders and Barnes & Noble, and searched for a cheap edition of the book. Then I copied the ISBN number of that edition, and searched for it on Amazon.com.

As for other works of French literature, big chain bookstores often have them in stock, although the selection tends to be limited. Such books also sometimes show up at book sales or used bookstores. If you're looking for a list of what French literary texts are worth reading, then you could check out some of the lists on this page (http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/greatbks.html).
I was struggling with whether or not to get that, because the original is in 3500 pages, and there are 6to8 volume sets with 3-500 pages each volume. I can't tell if that's the full-text or just a volume in a larger series, because if you keep the font small and the pages big, it's possible. the Penguin edition is only 675 pages. This one is 373, which is possible, but not likely (it's only a 6X4 book).


That great book site will also pobably cause me to lose a few hours looking through, thanks. (this isn't facetious, losing hours into web site means they're good, but that sentence has the same structure as a backhanded compliment)

[berk]

The one Sir Tim linked to looks like a collection of excerpts ("morceaux choisi"). I think Casanova's a great read in English, but not sure it's a good choice for your project, because it is pretty massive, as you say.

I think I'd go with a series of shorter pieces. Some of Voltaire's stories and short novels like Candide, Zadig, Micromegas (early science fiction!), for example. They're easily found in French PPBs and I think Gutenberg has most or all of them in French as well. And you can get English translations of all three of those and a couple more collected in an Oxford PPB edition. I think it might be more useful to read the French along with an English translation for reference, rather than relying on a dictionary alone. I've tried that method with a few things (including Micromegas), and plan to do some more in the near future; it really helps, since a literal word-by-word translation often won't convey the sense of what's being said in the original language.

Another suggestion, along the same lines: there are at least a couple different anthologies of French poetry out there in the original language with English translations in prose at the bottom of the page. Penguin has one that covers the big names from 1820 through to the 20th century, for example. I have that one myself but haven't gotten round to looking at it yet.

And one last idea. If you know barely any French at all, the BBC languages site has a nice little beginners' tutorial series complete with dialogues and quizzes that should help give you a bit of a feel for how the language sounds (in France, at least). I'm sure there are lots of similar things available elsewhere on the web too, I just happen to know about this one.

Good luck - I've been trying hapharzardly for years to learn French and have never really gotten that far with it as far as my spoken word comprehension goes. But the reading skills are definitely easier to improve. Once you get going, try looking at a few news sites every day, stuff you're into, like sports or science or whatever it might be. I find that helps, too.

[mattx110]

Thanks, that's great advice, and not stuff that I'd think of. The internet is a better resource than I thought. And reading, well, apparently 60% of English is taken from French, so it's not that difficult, but the problem is I'm understanding it and not actually getting the French words down, just going "I understand that, we have words like that in English". Didn't know the BBC had that. I got an English translation of the Casanova Memoir today, so I'll sort of work through, understand a few pages in my native tongue, then try the French so I know what's going on. I've got a book on basic French and pronunciation (although reading it can't be as good as hearing), as my original plan of going through word by word with a dictionary seems rather stupid right now.

[berk]

I just remembered something else - music. For some reason it seems to be easier to learn the foreign language words to a song than to something spoken or read. Maybe the same reason they say people who stutter can sing without stuttering, and singers can memorize the lyrics to a song in a language they don't understand. Find some French music you like and start singing along.

[Roquefort Raider]

Great idea, Mattx110, and one I used to learn English and German.

This won't help you with Casanova, but just in case it's useful here's the strategy I used.

I had three types of reading material, and different approaches to each.

a) Language guides, the little booklets that tourists carry with them when spending four days in a foreign country. Most of these things contain day-to-day expressions and very, very useful expressions and full sentences. They help you get a feel of the language, have pronunciation guides, and will provide you with a useful basic vocabulary. These booklets I try to go through cover to cover, a few pages every day (it doesn't take long).

b) Comics. Indispensable in my view, because they bring in the feeling of fun that must be maintained when attempting something as hard as teaching yourself another language. It's not so much that the combination of images and text makes it easier to understand, but rather that you do get the impression of progressing since pages contain less material. To compensate for this aspect, I keep a dictionary at my side at all times and must understand each and every word, each and every sentence, before moving on.

With French, you have the advantage of an unbelievable selection.

c) Novels. In this case, I don't try to understand everything; I just have to get to the point where I don't see the text anymore and just start seeing the story. The dictionary is still there to help (and frequently!) but I don't make it a rule to "get" everything, the main goal being to absorb the language. I found that once you have enough vocabulary to follow the story, the rest just seeps in as if by osmosis. I would certainly pick as exciting a novel as possible, not necessarily one that seems worthier of being read in its original language. (I wouldn't have started German with Kant's Kritik der reinen Vernunft, for example; I started with a SF series I had started (in translated form) as a kid).

I think it might be more useful to read the French along with an English translation for reference, rather than relying on a dictionary alone. I've tried that method with a few things (including Micromegas), and plan to do some more in the near future; it really helps, since a literal word-by-word translation often won't convey the sense of what's being said in the original language.

That's a great idea. Edgar Allan Poe's works were translated by Charles Beaudelaire, one of the greatest French poets; that would be a great combination.


I just remembered something else - music. For some reason it seems to be easier to learn the foreign language words to a song than to something spoken or read.

I can vouch that that worked great for my dad, but unfortunately it doesn't for me. I still have a hard time understanding what people are saying when they sing, and that includes most French songs !!!

Good luck, Matt!

[mattx110]

Thanks. I realized that I'd go insane translating every single word and hoping I can form sentences with it. I have one of those books with the vowells, consonants and basic phrases. It's like taking 1st grade language arts in english again, I was good at that. It's pretty big for a language guide, but has some cultural and pictures of tourist sites and such to get you excited about being a tourist.

And, even if they're small pages, the idea of taking on 3500 of them seems to be making it difficult to see any headway as success. But I do have the translation and the original text, so I'll at least have one of them for regular enjoyment of reading, and I'll try to work through a fwe pages in French for each chapter I read in English.
I'm also trying to make other people learn with me, or people that sorta know how to start using it again, because apparently using a language is important in learning it. If anyone here wants to brush up on their writing and reading, Rita's could use some of that French wit:biggrin:

This French music thing might be fun. I'd like to sing in French. I guess I'll start with "Psycho Killer" and work my way up.

[berk]

b) Comics. Indispensable in my view, because they bring in the feeling of fun that must be maintained when attempting something as hard as teaching yourself another language. It's not so much that the combination of images and text makes it easier to understand, but rather that you do get the impression of progressing since pages contain less material. To compensate for this aspect, I keep a dictionary at my side at all times and must understand each and every word, each and every sentence, before moving on.

With French, you have the advantage of an unbelievable selection.This is something I have to get into more. Unfortunately, the comics shops and bookstores here in Ottawa don't have nearly as good a selection of French comics as you'd expect from a city that claims to be bilingual. I'll have to break down and start ordering from the web or something. Which German comics series do you recommend? I'm just getting into trying to learn to read that language. So far just (very slowly) going through one of those very basic grammar/vocab books, but I hope to star trying to read some simple things once I get through that.

c) Novels. In this case, I don't try to understand everything; I just have to get to the point where I don't see the text anymore and just start seeing the story. The dictionary is still there to help (and frequently!) but I don't make it a rule to "get" everything, the main goal being to absorb the language. I found that once you have enough vocabulary to follow the story, the rest just seeps in as if by osmosis. I would certainly pick as exciting a novel as possible, not necessarily one that seems worthier of being read in its original language. (I wouldn't have started German with Kant's Kritik der reinen Vernunft, for example; I started with a SF series I had started (in translated form) as a kid).

... Edgar Allan Poe's works were translated by Charles Beaudelaire, one of the greatest French poets; that would be a great combination.Oooh, good idea. I have a couple short French things lined up for the coming months, but that'll be a good addition. What was the German SF series you read?
I can vouch that that worked great for my dad, but unfortunately it doesn't for me. I still have a hard time understanding what people are saying when they sing, and that includes most French songs !!!

Good luck, Matt!Oh, I definitely need to have the words in front of me to follow along. Luckily you can usually find them on the web even if the cd packaging doesn't include them.

[Roquefort Raider]

Which German comics series do you recommend?

The German comics creators I know are better at cynical humor than anything else, and my favorite is "ein kleines Arschloch".

The series I followed avidly when living over there was a translation of Hal Foster's Prince Valiant ("Prinz Eisenherz"). It had the added advantage of lots of text!

What was the German SF series you read?

Perry Rhodan (die größte Weltraumserie der Welt)!

That series has them all beat; Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever... Perry Rhodan is a space opera published in weekly pamphlets since 1961. (The series is currently over 2400 issues long. Luckily, since the main characters are pretty much immortal by now (the plot demanded it at some point), the storyline can move on without becoming eternally repetitive.

It's often very corny, but over the past 48 years it had real moments of greatness.