Just something I was wondering.... [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

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Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 12:13 AM

....Was there a law that black male characters created during the Bronze Age had to have necklines plunging to their belts?

http://www.megomuseum.com/wgsh/images/falcon_comic.jpg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/c/cb/Black_lightning_nowlan.jpg/200px-Black_lightning_nowlan.jpg

http://www.amazingco.com/amazingco.com/comics/marvel/items/ma582.jpg

It's like there was an African-American Beefcake Act goin' on. Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome; just wonderin'. :biggrin:

Any other examples?

The Ray

07-06-2008, 12:15 AM

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/i/IronFist.jpg

I dunno

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 12:18 AM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/MarvelCovers/1448_4_087.jpg

Poor John Stewart. It's not really injustice that's gettin' him so angry. He just wanted to be allowed to show his belly button too. :frown:

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 12:19 AM

[EDIT: never mind. He's Iron Fist, I just remembered who he was]

But in all seriousness, it seems that black male characters at the time were allowed to be..... perhaps in some ways required to be..... sexy in ways that only heroines and villiannesses had been before. In short, they could show some SKIN.

Or am I wrong...? I know Cosmic Boy wore that pretty skin-revealing costume, and Iron Fist too....

Was it a coincidence of ethnic diversity increasing during a time where sexual revolution was hitting comics?

Am I overthinking it?

scout1279

07-06-2008, 09:45 AM

Maybe it at something to do with the way black men were being presented in other popular media. Wasn't Luke Cage was created to try and capture some of the popularity Blacksploitation movies?

Cam63

07-06-2008, 10:36 AM

Maybe it at something to do with the way black men were being presented in other popular media. Wasn't Luke Cage was created to try and capture some of the popularity Blacksploitation movies?

It would seem to be the case.

Major Comma

07-06-2008, 10:36 AM

Sam Wilson was later revealed to be "Snap" Wilson a pimp,
so there is definitely a sexual component there .
I hate to be ignorant but what time period covers The Bronze Age?
early70s?

JKCarrier

07-06-2008, 10:47 AM

Sam Wilson was later revealed to be "Snap" Wilson a pimp,
so there is definitely a sexual component there .

"Snap" was a racketeer (numbers runner), IIRC, not a pimp.

I hate to be ignorant but what time period covers The Bronze Age?
early70s?

Pretty much. Starts somewhere around the time Kirby left Marvel (1970), and ends at Crisis on Infinite Earths at the latest (1986).

Another skin-showin' brother of the era was Black Goliath:
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2343/200/2343_2_1.jpg

Infra-Man

07-06-2008, 10:50 AM

Hey, don't forget the Schoolhouse Rock classic, "Verb: That's What's a'Happenin'":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4GomSmWZs4

bert

07-06-2008, 10:54 AM

Good lord woman!

you call yourself a Legion fan, yet forgot:

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/4000/3620/66508-tyroc_150.jpg

http://www.gpdesenhos.com.br/imagens/dccomics/tyroc.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Tyroclosh.png/180px-Tyroclosh.png

Major Comma

07-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Does Black Lightning fit this pattern?

Major Comma

07-06-2008, 11:09 AM

oh yes, i see him now in maxines original post, my bad .
I always prefered the original costume to the new version.

Michael P

07-06-2008, 11:10 AM

Does Black Lightning fit this pattern?

More or less. Tony Isabella tried to break the mold a bit, but wasn't entirely successful (and after Lightning's series was cancelled, no one else had much interest in doing so).

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 12:16 PM

Charles RB

07-06-2008, 12:23 PM

After seeing that costume, I wish I could forget Tyroc.

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 12:27 PM

After seeing that costume, I wish I could forget Tyroc.

Tyroc's buffed abs, healthy bulge, and pixie boots won't LET you forget!

Charles RB

07-06-2008, 12:54 PM

Get that man a burkha, stat!

ElvisGuy

07-06-2008, 01:57 PM

Man , I miss the 70s !!..we need to bring back plunging necklines for men !
...and why is every thread Pink Bat creates awesome?!!

Grazzt

07-06-2008, 02:00 PM

Man , I miss the 70s !!..we need to bring back plunging necklines for men !
...and why is every thread Pink Bat creates awesome?!!

So, should they create more new characters with plunging necklines, or incorporate them into classic costumes? Or both?

Corrina

07-06-2008, 02:03 PM

Nightwing originally had a plunging neckline.

I'm all for having that back. The disco shirt collar, not so much.

ElvisGuy

07-06-2008, 04:09 PM

Nightwing originally had a plunging neckline.

I'm all for having that back. The disco shirt collar, not so much.

I LOOOVE the disco collar..but then again look at the way I dress ! LOL !

Spike-X

07-06-2008, 05:00 PM

Matt Algren

07-06-2008, 05:11 PM

(Just for some reason, it said I had posted four pictures when I had posted three....)
Smilies count.

How about Brother Voodoo and Cyborg?

http://www.marveldirectory.com/pictures/individuals/b_1d/brothervoodoo.gif

http://www.titanstower.com/assets/gallery/perezgallery/model_style/cyborgmod.jpg

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 06:27 PM

Cyborg had an arrow to the crotch, but it was a touch more modest.

On the other hand, Perez DID design Houngan...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/3/3c/Brotherhood_of_Evil_1.jpg/250px-Brotherhood_of_Evil_1.jpg

Second from the left.

Perez had a thing for villians dressed like male versions of Vegas showgirls.

http://www.titanstower.com/assets/whos%20who/aamembers/whoswho80/trigonwho.jpg

That's right, Trigon. Work it, girl.

Pink Bat Maxine

07-06-2008, 06:28 PM

Man , I miss the 70s !!..we need to bring back plunging necklines for men !
...and why is every thread Pink Bat creates awesome?!!

Awww, thanks!

CutterMike

07-06-2008, 08:00 PM

Now, I'm no sociologist, so I'm not speaking anywhere NEAR authoritatively, but it's pretty clear to me that the trend that PB points out (which I certainly hadn't noticed, as it happens) has to do with the creators' desire to try to find a middle ground between the two most prevalent depictions of black males in media up 'til that point.

In general (Note, please, the word "general" -- this is going to be a gross oversimplification and I'm going to backpedal, somewhat, further along...) black men have been portrayed as either infantilized or over-sexualized. Examples of the former would be the roles that Stepin Fetchit and Mantan Moreland played in the movies, the good-natured but superstitious comedy relief. One could also, arguably, include the "friendly natives" of many jungle-adventure movies who needed the firm hand of the white man to solve their problem for them. On the other side of the coin, the hyper-sexualized black man appears, of course, in the fantasies of every white-supremacist who imagines that "they all want our women"; an image of the wide-eyed, lust-crazed savage not infrequently used in anything from Conan novels to Tarzan movies.

The open-to-the-waist shirt of the black heroes of the '70s, then, can be seen as a middle ground between these extremes written by -- predominantly -- white, middle-class males who chose to err on the side of leaning slightly towards the sexualized black man, rather than risking accidentally leaning towards the infantilized.

A case can, I think, be made that the open-shirt look was (consciously or unconsciously) intended to act as counterpoint to the generally full-body-coverage costumes of white male heroes -- implying that the white hero was more "strait-laced" while the black man was "freer". And if he is freer in his clothing, it is to be assumed that he is "freer" in his nature, as well. In many ways, this ties in with a third -- and the least frequent -- portrayal of black males in popular media: "the Noble Savage".

The Noble Savage borders on the infantilized portrayal, but the Noble Savage is proud to face the white hero as an equal (as long as the hero allows it, of course), and wouldn't THINK of looking lustfully upon the White Woman -- not because he is so far her inferior, socially, of course, but because he is too Noble to even consider such a thing. Note that T'Challa, the Black Panther -- the western-educated, charming and urbane Noblest of a tribe of Noble Savages -- wore a full-coverage suit; no naked savage, he, but a full-fledged "civilized" man!

The open-shirt look among black superheroes of the '70s, then, becomes a visual shorthand that these are emotionally freer souls, closer to their "nature" (as befits the middle-class, buttoned-down, white writer's view of "ethnics"*) but not so driven by their passions that they become the hyper-sexualized threat.

They become the Noble Savages of our Urban Jungles, neither the shirtless savage nor the completely clothing-enwrapped "uptight".

Expanding from this view of black heroes, it is even possible, in popular media, to see the degree of "shirtedness" as a signifier of any male character's degree of "civilization".

In the comics, Marvel has, off the top of my head, the shirtless Crusher Creel (the Absorbing Man), the Hulk, and the Sub-Mariner -- all of whom are known for having... well... anger-management issues. (Curiously, the period when Subby was wearing a shirt -- albeit a sleeveless, open-to-the-waist job -- his magazine was titled "The Savage Sub-Mariner"!) We can also see how characters who are otherwise (at least semi-) civilized become less so and become more savage fighters as their shirts get shredded. Two examples here would be Nick Fury in his "Howling Commando" days, and that all-time shirt-shredding master, James T. Kirk!

Meanwhile Reed Richards, Clark Kent and the young Peter Parker favor white, buttoned-down shirts and ties. (This would also be the period when Steve Rogers had a day job as a New York beat cop, with his uniform jacket buttoned all the way to the top.)

Note, also, the portrayals of the 19th- and 20th-century versions of the Native American hero "Red Wolf" in his stories in the 1970s who, in both incarnations, went shirtless. The only other Native American male hero that I can think of from that period -- the FF's Wyatt Wingfoot -- seemed, as I recall, to have a thing for crew-necked white t-shirts, and tended to be as buttoned-down as most white characters. The later Thunderbird character also had short-sleeves and a crew-neck. And like Wyatt, was something of a stiff-necked tight-ass.

What all of this says about Cyborg with his pecs-revealing scoop-neck, tighty-whiteys, and stainless-steel chaps and garters is left as an exercise for the student.

Class dismissed.:tongue:

Matt Algren

07-07-2008, 06:42 AM