MTV: DC Comics’ Hollywood Crisis: Our Unsolicited Advice

[4PointOh]

MTV has plenty of problems of it's own, but it sees fit to pontificate on DC's lackluster films as compared to Marvel's. Check it out:

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/06/23/dc-comics-hollywood-crisis-our-unsolicited-advice/

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Oh yay, advice from MTV, the music channel that doesn't play music, and thinks that rap and hip-hop are two different genres.

[Sabrinaset]

MTV? I remember hearing about that ... I think my grandpa used to watch it when it first started up.

[4PointOh]

Oh yay, advice from MTV, the music channel that doesn't play music, and thinks that rap and hip-hop are two different genres.

LOL! Rap and Hip-Hop are two different genres--or more accurately, rap is a sub-genre of Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop is the broader category and includes a style of dress, artists like Floetry, Erykah Badu and Lauryn Hill.

Hip-Hop is a culture. Rap refers solely a style of lyricism set to a beat within that culture.

[TCJohnson]

I agree with everything they have said.

[Evan Waters]

Really, it just boils down to "get these goddamn projects moving." Start up MAN OF STEEL, get somebody on WONDER WOMAN- there's really no reason for Warner Bros. to be sluggish about this. The real problem is that they're so behind in quantity- I loved both BATMAN BEGINS and SUPERMAN RETURNS, but that's TWO movies since the entire superhero revival began. Going on three.

[Grazzt]

I agree with everything they have said.

Yeah, it's hard to disagree with "make more movies". Especially the non-superhero comic properties: those are cheaper to make and can be surprisingly successful (see Blade and MiB). And DC has a far superior line-up of non-superhero properties to exploit. I may be willing to see Death: The High Cost of Living in theatres, and I haven't seen a film in theatres in ages.

[Tom-El]

MTV has plenty of problems of it's own, but it sees fit to pontificate on DC's lackluster films as compared to Marvel's. Check it out:

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/06/23/dc-comics-hollywood-crisis-our-unsolicited-advice/

That's pretty funny, considering the difficulty Paramount/CBS (MTV's parent) had getting the latest Star Trek movie made.

Glass houses, don'tcha know...

Tom

[Charles RB]

Oh yay, advice from MTV, the music channel that doesn't play music

Pretty much what I was thinking!

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Odd. I was expecting something along the lines of, "Have more drunk, naked teenagers..."

[4PointOh]

I loved both BATMAN BEGINS and SUPERMAN RETURNS.

You...loved Superman Returns?

:eek:

[Charles RB]

Odd. I was expecting something along the lines of, "Have more drunk, naked teenagers..."

"Don't show any superheroes in your superhero film."

[Sabrinaset]

Odd. I was expecting something along the lines of, "Have more drunk, naked teenagers..."

Is Winnick writing for the WB now? :eek:

[Astonishing X-Fan]

LOL! Rap and Hip-Hop are two different genres--or more accurately, rap is a sub-genre of Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop is the broader category and includes a style of dress, artists like Floetry, Erykah Badu and Lauryn Hill.

Hip-Hop is a culture. Rap refers solely a style of lyricism set to a beat within that culture.

They are not two different genres because rap is part of hip-hop. Hip-hop contains other musical genres besides rap, but it is not a seperate musical genre on it's own.

Some people, like MTV, incorrectly label some rap as "rap" and some as "hip-hop". They might call 50 Cent "rap" and Nas "hip-hop", when in reality they are both rap and they are both hip-hop.

[Crowley]

They are not two different genres because rap is part of hip-hop. Hip-hop contains other musical genres besides rap, but it is not a seperate musical genre on it's own.

Some people, like MTV, incorrectly label some rap as "rap" and some as "hip-hop". They might call 50 Cent "rap" and Nas "hip-hop", when in reality they are both rap and they are both hip-hop.

that's pretty ridiculous.

Could we make the same argument that Manga isn't a different genre of Comics... because Manga is part of comics?

Seems your logic falls apart here.

[Grazzt]

that's pretty ridiculous.

Could we make the same argument that Manga isn't a different genre of Comics... because Manga is part of comics?

Seems your logic falls apart here.

That's a bad example. Comics are a medium. Manga is an art style. Neither are genres.

[4PointOh]

They are not two different genres because rap is part of hip-hop. Hip-hop contains other musical genres besides rap, but it is not a seperate musical genre on it's own.

Some people, like MTV, incorrectly label some rap as "rap" and some as "hip-hop". They might call 50 Cent "rap" and Nas "hip-hop", when in reality they are both rap and they are both hip-hop.

I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn where you would get punched in the face for even insinuating that 50 Cent was hip-hop (Bedford-Stuyvesant).

[4PointOh]

They are not two different genres because rap is part of hip-hop. Hip-hop contains other musical genres besides rap, but it is not a seperate musical genre on it's own.

Some people, like MTV, incorrectly label some rap as "rap" and some as "hip-hop". They might call 50 Cent "rap" and Nas "hip-hop", when in reality they are both rap and they are both hip-hop.

And did you not read the part where I wrote, "more accurately, rap is a sub-genre of hip-hop"?

[Astonishing X-Fan]

that's pretty ridiculous.

Could we make the same argument that Manga isn't a different genre of Comics... because Manga is part of comics?

Seems your logic falls apart here.

Manga, superhero comics, horror comics, comic strips...they're all subgenres of "comics".

If you were to say "manga isn't comics", you would be wrong. They aren't different genres, "comics" is a genre that contains many subgenres.

Same goes for this. Rap, breakdancing, DJing, graffiti art, etc. are subgenres of "hip-hop". So saying that rap isn't hip-hop is wrong.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn where you would get punched in the face for even insinuating that 50 Cent was hip-hop (Bedford-Stuyvesant).

Well he is. He might not be GOOD hip-hop but he is. Every rapper is part of hip-hop.

[4PointOh]

Well he is. He might not be GOOD hip-hop but he is. Every rapper is part of hip-hop.

It's unfortunate, but you're correct.

[TCJohnson]

Yeah, it's hard to disagree with "make more movies". Especially the non-superhero comic properties: those are cheaper to make and can be surprisingly successful (see Blade and MiB). And DC has a far superior line-up of non-superhero properties to exploit. I may be willing to see Death: The High Cost of Living in theatres, and I haven't seen a film in theatres in ages.

Well, there is also try to follow the source material more closely, try to hold onto people like Joss Whedon.

[Gail Simone]

Look, we all know Marvel has done a GREAT job with its last couple movies. And we know that WB can sometimes be a bit of a red tape thing, apparently.

BUT.

We have The Dark Knight, The Spirit, and the Gotham Knight movies all coming out very shortly and a bunch of stuff for next year.

It's not completely one-sided.

[Crowley]

I wouldn't be so quick to check off The Spirit into the win column.

[Crowley]

That's a bad example. Comics are a medium. Manga is an art style. Neither are genres.

Manga isn't really an art style though as within Manga there are several different styles of art.

But that's a topic for another thread really.

[Gail Simone]

I wouldn't be so quick to check off The Spirit into the win column.

Sin City

300


We'll see.

[4PointOh]

The part that gets me is when some writer comes on board and imagines that they have to reinvent the wheel. That is, diverge so incredibly far from the source material that the hero and her story are barely recognizable. Then, when the movie is released and flops miserably, they have the audacity to be incredulous.

If Warner cannot see how a Wonder Woman film--following George Perez's play book--has the potential to be a female Lord of the Rings, then they're stupid, plain and simple.

[Magneto_X]

That's a bad example. Comics are a medium. Manga is an art style.

Manga is an art style and a medium. Manga is merely the Japanese name for comics.

Neither are genres.

Yup, this is right.

[TCJohnson]

Look, we all know Marvel has done a GREAT job with its last couple movies. And we know that WB can sometimes be a bit of a red tape thing, apparently.

BUT.

We have The Dark Knight, The Spirit, and the Gotham Knight movies all coming out very shortly and a bunch of stuff for next year.

It's not completely one-sided.

Just to point out something..

The Spirit is not really a part of the DCU, despite a few crossovers. Also, The Spirit is not being made by Warner Bros. It is being made by Lionsgate.

It looks like the Dark Knight is the only win on the side of Warners...and I hope they learn a lot from that movie.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

MTV? I remember hearing about that ... I think my grandpa used to watch it when it first started up.





....I'm ready for my walker now, Mr. DeMille.

[Kid Omega]

Manga, superhero comics, horror comics, comic strips...they're all subgenres of "comics".

If you were to say "manga isn't comics", you would be wrong. They aren't different genres, "comics" is a genre that contains many subgenres.

Same goes for this. Rap, breakdancing, DJing, graffiti art, etc. are subgenres of "hip-hop". So saying that rap isn't hip-hop is wrong.

I all seriousness, I'm not sure you know what "genre" means.

You are saying very confused things.

[The Xenos]

That's pretty funny, considering the difficulty Paramount/CBS (MTV's parent) had getting the latest Star Trek movie made.

Glass houses, don'tcha know...

Tom
Yeah. Ha. A Paramount network lecturing DC. They say that Iron Man did wlel and DC is in the dumps. Oh wait.. who did Iron Man? Oh yeah. Paramount. What a co-ink-ee-dink.
that's pretty ridiculous.

Could we make the same argument that Manga isn't a different genre of Comics... because Manga is part of comics?

Seems your logic falls apart here.
That's a bad example. Comics are a medium. Manga is an art style. Neither are genres.

Must.. remember... to.. breathe. :mad:

No manga is a medium too. It's just the damn Japanese word for comics. There are many different styles within manga just like there are in comics. There is no one American art style is there? I've heard unexperienced manga fans spout such ill informed nonsense too.

And yeah, comics and manga aren't a genre. They are a medium. Though genre is a tough definition to nail down, comics are best called a medium that can use many genres. I saw Neil Gaiman give a lecture in memory of Julie Schwartz at MIT about the concept of genre. It's tough to easily describe it. There was talk at length about comparing musicals and hardcore pornography. Yet it made total sense. The man really is a magician.

Sign up Shia LeBeouf.
Well, not that I expected anything from it, but that tosses out this MTV blog's credibility right out the window for me. Though I kinda like the Juno reaction suggestion. Though I never cared for Juno one way or another. Plus they're damn right Fables would be awesome. Hell, most Vertigo is untapped. Then again, I think a number of those are thankfully creator controlled to the chagrin of the suits at AOL Time Warner. This blog acts as if they're another corporate icon like Spider-man or Batman. WRONG.

Sin City
300
We'll see.
Um.. Gail, what about All Star Batman and Robin?
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4697/0002pyfphj0.jpg

[Evan Waters]

You...loved Superman Returns?

:eek:

Uh, yes.

It's beautifully made, superbly constructed, the thematic stuff is terrific, the art style and cinematography are wonderful, Kevin Spacey kicks several varieties of ass- apart from Bosworth's casting I don't see much of anything wrong with it.

[AllisterH]

Sin City

300


We'll see.

Er, I'm not sure people really consider those superhero movies. Hell, how many people know those were originally comic books?

Same thing with WANTED and the MEN IN BLACK films. Not what I would consider "triumphs" for the superhero comics.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I all seriousness, I'm not sure you know what "genre" means.

You are saying very confused things.

While I admittedly may have misused terminology, the point remains: Rap is hip hop. Manga is comics. Hip Hop is not always rap. Comics aren't always manga.

My original comment about MTV was born from seeing them classify some rap as "rap" and some rap as "hip hop" when in reality, ALL rap is hip hop. There are different kinds of rap, and there are other kinds of music that fall under the hip hop category, but rap as a whole is always hip hop.

Some people have the idea planted in their heads that "rap" is exclusively gangsta rap and stuff like 50 Cent, and that "hip hop" is stuff like Common or Mos Def or Kanye West. The actual correct definitions would place both groups as "rap" AND "hip hop".

[stamen]

Did Warner make V for Vendetta? I know it was a DC book.

All in all, I thought the link was spot on. Marvel doesn't necessarily get everything right in their films, but they do get the most important thing right: stick as close as you can to the comics people love. The last thing you want are a quarter of million fanboys seeing the movie on opening day and trashing it to everyone else afterward, as happened with Superman Returns.

Yet Warner Brothers just can't get even that much right. The idea that Superman is too "good" for modern audiences was even mentioned in one of the responses on the thread. What they didn't get was that was Supes' appeal, and they undermined it right off the bat with the kid storyline, which again doesn't stick to any form of the comic.

SuperMaxx may be the greatest movie since sliced bread, but don't go calling it a Green Arrow picture for the love of all that's holy. Another example of the execs at Warner Brothers who don't understand how to properly use a comic icon. That would be like setting a Human Torch movie underwater (except for the first 10 minutes in which Johnny would be the Torch, afterward he'll just wander the ocean floor with some lesser known Marvel Villians).

[4PointOh]

Uh, yes.

It's beautifully made, superbly constructed, the thematic stuff is terrific, the art style and cinematography are wonderful, Kevin Spacey kicks several varieties of ass- apart from Bosworth's casting I don't see much of anything wrong with it.

Remind me never EVER to see a film you've recommended.

:wink:

[Kal L]

MTV still play music videos.

But only in that parallel universe I occasionally visit.

[MPagar]

I'm liking Neil Gaiman’s “Law of Superhero Movies”. I get tired of movie execs going wild with their reimaginings.

[JKCarrier]

The last thing you want are a quarter of million fanboys seeing the movie on opening day and trashing it to everyone else afterward, as happened with Superman Returns.

I don't think the general public needed the fans to tell them to avoid a movie about a superhero who knocks up his girlfriend, leaves town for five years, and then comes back and stalks her.