Please Explain - Howard Chaykin

[rick196436]

why do people consider howard chaykin to be a good artist , please explain it to me. i think he is horrible and cant fathom how he gets jobs. the characters look lumpy and fat and have huge chins , its very hard to look at . the punisher is being ruined by him. PLEASE tell me why he is liked.

[Spiffy]

why do people consider howard chaykin to be a good artist , please explain it to me. i think he is horrible and cant fathom how he gets jobs. the characters look lumpy and fat and have huge chins , its very hard to look at . the punisher is being ruined by him. PLEASE tell me why he is liked.

HE SUCKS.

But everytime I've ever brought it up, I tend to get booed and heckled by some insane fan base who say I "don't get it".

Heck, I remember seeing an issue of Hawkgirl, where he drew both eyes on the same side of her face. I am not kidding.

[HeckBoy]

Beats me. I just chalk it up to fan preference/loyalty. Some people who liked his past work just continue to defend it. I've seen some (not a lot) of his less mainstream work and it's alright, it fits the story. I personally don't feel his style works w/ a lot of the tights-wearing heroes though.

[Will.S]

Howard's current art is certainly what I would call unappealing but at the same time I don't know if I can bring myself to hate it.

It seems like his older artwork is much more revered than his current one which isn't drastically different but his proportions in his older work was a bit less freakish looking. There are also people that just like his artwork no matter what because of it's quirky style.

I fall somewhere in the middle.

[Ghost Shark]

I liked his art on AMERICAN FLAGG, THE SHADOW and BLACKHAWK. I checkd out his work on HAWKGIRL... Eesh!

[Greg Anderson]

I've actually only seen his art on Blade and I love it. There's just something about it that just appeals to me. His Blade run has definitely made me a fan. But I do know many people hated his art on Blade and dropped it. Art is a weird subject.

[RedRonin]

He's an awesome storyteller. More better than a lot of big artists.

His style has gotten a lot looser, but can fit certain stories. I thought it worked on Blade, but not so much on New Avengers.

He's a groundbreaking artist, and I still thik his black and white stuff looks good.

[Expletive Deleted]

His style has gotten a lot looser, but can fit certain stories. I thought it worked on Blade, but not so much on New Avengers.Ditto. His work fits the current Phantom Eagle mini perfectly.

[seven7VII]

I like his art due to the fact that its so different from other artists, but like some have said before it only works on certain books, and those type of hero's are more the street hero's such as blade,punisher,moonknight,etc

but thats just my opinion

[Taskmaster]

Is old work was good, his recent work like Wolverine and especially Blade made me want to cry because I really wanted to enjoy Blade, I REALLY REALLY did. Marvel Comics Presents has convinced me that it wasn't the writing that made me dislike the Blade series, just the inappropriate art

[Chris Heide]

I'll agree that his work at Marvel really hasn't fit the product, but I wouldn't say he's gone downhill, I mean his art in City Of Tomorrow was really excellent just a couple years ago...

[Billage]

acquired taste,I personally am enjoying his woek in PWJ

[DeadXMan]

Ditto. His work fits the current Phantom Eagle mini perfectly.

Yes, period peices seem to work for him. I like his WWI flashbacks in the death of Logan, but not the modern part of the story.

but he makes a good Jigsaw

[pariah-1972]

I'm not well versed in his stuff but i didn't like his Wolverine arc i could barely tell the difference between Wolverine and Dr Strange.

[Valen]

I'm not a fan of the work he is currently doing for Marvel There is something about his faces that is just hideous. His one issue of New Avengers is my least favorite version of Captain America ever. I dropped PWJ when he came aboard that title as well. I liked his older style of art, but something has been thrown off in his current method that makes his art hard to stomach for me.

[Mr. Earl Brooks]

why do people consider howard chaykin to be a good artist , please explain it to me. i think he is horrible and cant fathom how he gets jobs. the characters look lumpy and fat and have huge chins , its very hard to look at . the punisher is being ruined by him. PLEASE tell me why he is liked.

Honestly I dropped Punisher: War Journal because of Olivetti. Chaykin doesn't exaclty inspire me to pick it up again. The Maleev covers are tempting though. I would love to see Maleev as a regular Punisher artist though.

Anyway I'm really not into Chaykin either. All his faces look exactly the same. He did one issue for Ennis' Punisher and I hated it. Punisher + Mustache + Deep Tan = Blade. There just wasn't enough distinction between any of his characters in my opinion.

[rick]

Howard Chaykin is a brilliant writer and brilliant artist who has been putting out extremely lush and detailed drawings with a 1930's pulp feel to them since the early 1970's.

Either you get his work or you don't, but I will say that considering the utter crap that gets called great comic art these days, it doesn't surprise me for a minute that good layout, interesting and distinctive expressions and an actual sense of movement would come across to some people these days as "bad" art.

[pariah-1972]

Howard Chaykin is a brilliant writer and brilliant artist who has been putting out extremely lush and detailed drawings with a 1930's pulp feel to them since the early 1970's.

Either you get his work or you don't, but I will say that considering the utter crap that gets called great comic art these days, it doesn't surprise me for a minute that good layout, interesting and distinctive expressions and an actual sense of movement would come across to some people these days as "bad" art.Condescending much?

[rick]

Condescending much?

Yep.

But hey, it's not my fault you guys have no taste in art. :biggrin:

[pariah-1972]

Yep.

But hey, it's not my fault you guys have no taste in art.Or possibly its the other way around hrrmmm?

[rick]

Or possibly its the other way around hrrmmm?


No, I've read enough of your posts to have a pretty good idea about what you consider good.

I'll stand by my original statement.

[pariah-1972]

No, I've read enough of your posts to have a pretty good idea about what you consider good.

I'll stand by my original statement.Oh yeah well what about all the other people on this thread who disagree with you?

[josh straightedge]

I got nothing against his art. There's worse out there. I do think his artistic style fits a lot of the work he does, like Punisher and War Is Hell.

[rick]

Oh yeah well what about all the other people on this thread who disagree with you?

You really need to learn to tell when somone is just screwing around with you, it will lead to less trouble for you in gym class.

Honestly Howie has always had a blocky style that is more than capable of turning off people who are used to a smoother style of comic art, and his art most definitely isn’t for everyone.

However he is a master of layout, his page movement is superior and he is second only to Dave Sim in the use of “sound effects” in his art to move the story along.

The man does deserve his reputation.

[jdwrocks]

You really need to learn to tell when somone is just screwing around with you, it will lead to less trouble for you in gym class.

Honestly Howie has always had a blocky style that is more than capable of turning off people who are used to a smoother style of comic art, and his art most definitely isn’t for everyone.

However he is a master of layout, his page movement is superior and he is second only to Dave Sim in the use of “sound effects” in his art to move the story along.

The man does deserve his reputation.
I agree that Howard excels w/ layouts and page movements. Aesthetically(sp?) it can turn people off; I have trouble with it at times. But I never have read a comic w/ his artwork that failed to tell the story visually, and that's more important than splashy artwork IMO.

[rick]

I agree that Howard excels w/ layouts and page movements. Aesthetically(sp?) it can turn people off; I have trouble with it at times. But I never have read a comic w/ his artwork that failed to tell the story visually, and that's more important than splashy artwork IMO.


The other thing about Chaykin's art that I think throws off so many people these days is that he has always been much more attached to the traditional "pulp" style of story telling and that really shows in his art. Even his science fiction stuff has that 1930's sensibility to it, and I can see where that is not going to appeal to everyone.

But for me anyway, Chaykin, while more than capable of making a misstep is still a vibrant, highly talented artist and storyteller.

[DeadXMan]

I'm not well versed in his stuff but i didn't like his Wolverine arc i could barely tell the difference between Wolverine and Dr Strange.

Dr Strange had clothes on

[DeadXMan]

Oh yeah well what about all the other people on this thread who disagree with you?

I'll take Chaykin over Hich any day of the week

[pariah-1972]

I'll take Chaykin over Hich any day of the weekI liked Hitch on authority and the first volume of Ultimates.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Chaykin's art wasn't great nor was it bad during his run on Hawkgirl, but his current Marvel output really isn't my thing. I'm guessing he had a more traditional style back in the day?

[rick]

I liked Hitch on authority and the first volume of Ultimates.

Hitch does decent enough faces, but his layout work is crowded and his over-all art style is just too derivative of early Sienkiewicz, which was derivative of Adams for me to take too seriously.

[DeadXMan]

I liked Hitch on authority and the first volume of Ultimates.


if you wantted to wait 18 months for an issue. (Jack Kirby would pistol whip him for that if he was alive)

[rick]

Chaykin's art wasn't great nor was it bad during his run on Hawkgirl, but his current Marvel output really isn't my thing. I'm guessing he had a more traditional style back in the day?

You'd be guessing wrong.

Chaykin has more or less had that same style for almost 40 years now.

[Slaymaster]

The subject of comics artists is always fun for me.

I like Chaykin's style, it's his own, like Jim Lee/ McFarlane (who I can't stand)/ Romita Jr./ Alan Davis/ Marc Silvestri/ etc. etc. etc. A lot of the artists in the 90's started copying Lee and Silvestri, made me sick, one of the reasons I stopped reading comics. (Numero uno was the amazingly stupid stories going on in Marvel.)

Chaykin's art isn't my favorite, I don't think its great, but its still pretty good. I used to have the hardcover graphic novel 'Scorpio Connection' or some such with Wolverine and Nick Fury, it was a good story and the art was really good.

Speaking of Silvestri and other artists while on the subject of Chaykin, artists styles do change. Silvestri's artwork on Uncanny X-Men got me hooked on comics; his work a short time later on Wolverine made me wonder if artists were like rockstars, maybe he started snorting the 'fine white stuff', maybe LSD, but his art wasn't getting better, but the opposite. I've seen it get better again, but thats how it goes...

This is all, of course, subjective to my opinion and in no way definitive.

Slaymaster

*Frank Quitely's artwork sucks and he should never again be allowed to hold a pencil, pen, or any other drawing instrument on pain of death.*

[TheGreatest]

I'm not a fan of his art, but I like it better than what Marco Turini is doing on the new volume of Squadron Supreme that Chaykin is writing.

And on that point, what on Earth is Chaykin doing to that title? I don't understand why Marvel has pushed so hard to ruin a title that was doing so well.

[Libaax]

Whenever i read him meaning when i have to cause of his work like Punisher issue,Blade,War is Hell etc i wonder what he did in the past to give him his big rep.

I cant see more one of the worst face,body artist i have ever seen.....

I have seen artist that dont fit in superhero but look good in others like Steve Dillion but i have read several comics of Chaykin that wasnt superhero and they still sucked....

What is the black and white art and noir style works that made his name ?

[Ghost Shark]

As I said above, I was a fan of his older stuff. My first taste of his art came from THE SHADOW mini he did in the mid-80's. I freakin' loved it, and it made me an instant fan. I immediately began picking up everything I could by him. But his later stuff, HAWKGIRL in particular, turned me off. I never read his BLADE or WOLVERINE stuff, so I can't comment on that, but I can say, even if his latest stuff doesn't seem to measure up to the old, his reputation has been earned tenfold.

[TF_loki]

The subject of comics artists is always fun for me.
Speaking of Silvestri and other artists while on the subject of Chaykin, artists styles do change. Silvestri's artwork on Uncanny X-Men got me hooked on comics; his work a short time later on Wolverine made me wonder if artists were like rockstars, maybe he started snorting the 'fine white stuff', maybe LSD, but his art wasn't getting better, but the opposite. I've seen it get better again, but thats how it goes...

This is all, of course, subjective to my opinion and in no way definitive.


I too loved Silvestri on X-men (and wolverine) but to me everything he's done since is awful. His work has gotten over stylized to the point of absurdity. He's not the only one though.

As for Chaykin, I find some of his stuff hard to follow sometimes but his stylization isn't as annoying as, say, Rob L and can work great on stuff like The Shadow.

[Excelsior]

why do people consider howard chaykin to be a good artist , please explain it to me. i think he is horrible and cant fathom how he gets jobs. the characters look lumpy and fat and have huge chins , its very hard to look at . the punisher is being ruined by him. PLEASE tell me why he is liked.


http://www.planetacomic.net/imagenes/comics/blackkiss01g.jpg


http://www.acomics.com/92.jpg

http://www.pinkraygun.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/51f2fckfkvl.jpg


I really think Chaykin is a great artist, His style is more suited for mature titles- Fantastic Four, Black Panther, Iron Man, Captain America, Moon Knight, New Avengers, etc.

[Mr. Earl Brooks]

I really think Chaykin is a great artist, His style is more suited for mature titles- Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Captain America, Moon Knight, etc.

Ive never thought of Fantastic Four as a mature title.

[Excelsior]

Ive never thought of Fantastic Four as a mature title.

that is why it lanquishes in the sales department. It should be Marvels smartest and most mature title.

[Jim Thompson]

I really think Chaykin is a great artist, His style is more suited for mature titles- Fantastic Four, Black Panther, Iron Man, Captain America, Moon Knight, New Avengers, etc.I agree. It's hard to say he's under-rated as an artist, but I think a lot of the time that's exactly what he is. His work is darker, and, as you say, better suited to mature material -- and perhaps that's part of the reason I like him. His Hawkgirl was wonderful!

[Jim Thompson]

that is why it lanquishes in the sales department. It should be Marvels smartest and most mature title.Completely agree with this as well. FF should not only be one of Marvel's smartest and best titles, it also ought to be treated as one of it's premier titles. That really hasn't happened for a while (though I'm sure there are those who look ate the Millar/Hitch outing as such treatment).

[jpk]

HE SUCKS.

But everytime I've ever brought it up, I tend to get booed and heckled by some insane fan base who say I "don't get it".

Heck, I remember seeing an issue of Hawkgirl, where he drew both eyes on the same side of her face. I am not kidding.

QFT. When he comes on board a title I read I drop it like it's radioactive.

[Rock It Raccoon]

*Frank Quitely's artwork sucks and he should never again be allowed to hold a pencil, pen, or any other drawing instrument on pain of death.*

irony? am i missing something?

Quitely's storytelling ability is, in my opinion, near if not the best in the industry now. his distinct style is complemented by his use of aesthetically dense narratological devices. have you looked at the art in WE3? so many pages of awesome. he experiments so much... and it all works so well.

of course this stuff is subjective, but i can't let Quitely go undefended from such an egregious attack. as far as Chaykin goes, i definitely liked his challengers of the unknown series, but as for his rececnt marvel work it really hasn't clicked with me. guess i'm not alone in that.

[FanboyStranger]

I am one of the biggest Chaykin fans on this site, but even I have to admit that he's been coasting since he returned to his drawing board a few years ago. Yes, faces have never been his thing, but he used to be the best in the business as far as choreography of movement, page design and layout for maximum dramatic effect, and the ability to convey an amazing amount of information in ways that actually enhanced the storytelling. Now, it's as if he's fallen back to a "stock style" of having a large panel featuring action coupled with an inset of a character's face, a great cinematic effect when he first popularized it back in the '80s, but extremely quaint (and even boring) these days, especially since he does pretty it much on every page now. (It's akin to Byrne's technique of having floating heads deal out the exposition, which was somewhat cool when he started really utilizing it back in She-Hulk, but then he beat it to death, which just smacks of laziness.) Man, it used to be downright impressive when Chaykin used to divide the action up into several panels-- that build-up to the first encounter with the GoGangs in AF! has to be one of the greatest "scenes" in the history of comics-- but he's scrapped it all for what seems to be an emphasis on background patterns, another element of his work that was so innovative back in the day, but sort of lost in this day of computer coloring and elaborate separations. (Where's Ken Brunzieak's typography work as well? That was a huge part of Chaykin's innovative period that doesn't get as much recognition as it should.)

I think we're just going to have to accept that Black Kiss was his last truly great artistic work, and unless he brings some of his mojo back to the page, he's just a shadow of his former self. And this is coming from a guy who is willing to throw down with anyone who doesn't consider American Flagg! 1-12 the greatest, most absolutely perfect run in the medium's history!

[vazel]

His art used to be good(although as a writer I think he's always sucked) but his recent art has degenerated to the quality of his writing.

[Herr Mike]

His art in American Flagg was great, unique and bold, with great experimentation with the panels. His recent superhero work, ugh.

[fuerstma]

Every time I see his name is conjures the images from the Shadow Miniseries (which was from what, 86 or something?) which I enjoyed greatly.

Then I pick up the modern book and simply groan. Man, it's awful.

Everything is so sketchy in his Punisher War Journal run I am having trouble figuring out who is Frank and who is Jigsaw!

I have the same sort of reaction to Dan Jurgens art. At one point I found something he did pleasing enough that when I see his name in the solicits I think "Ok, that should be good" and then every time I pick up his new stuff it pains me.

[B. Kuwanger]

Check out the Scorpio Connection and then immediately look at New Avengers #21. Maybe he did it left handed.

[RaulTheCat]

I am a huge Chaykin fan (well, my avatar and handle, duh!). That said, I wish he would stop doing these superhero crapfests and get back to doing the funny, sexy, smart work he did in the '80s and '90s. I wasn't a fan of Hawkgirl, but Blade was great, his sense of storytelling with Guggenheim's script was perfect.
So, yeah, when you say, 'He sucks', and praise crap from the flavor of the month, I'm gonna pretty much say you don't know what you're talking about.
I really wish Chaykin posted on message boards. If you think the little meltdowns from Waid and David were funny...hoo boy.

[B. Kuwanger]

I'll always give him props for being from Newark, but I can't say his Marvel work has been looking nice. Maybe he should try a different art team.

[rick196436]

then you must like your heroes to be fat and lumpy with funky looking faces

[Joe Franklin]

I have never liked the look of Chaykin's current Superhero comic book art, but he is a comic book legend no doubt, and the stuff he did in the 1980's was groundbreaking in many ways.

Young comic book readers just don't understand anything about the industry. This is not an insult to them, just the truth.

[FanboyStranger]

Every time I see his name is conjures the images from the Shadow Miniseries (which was from what, 86 or something?) which I enjoyed greatly.

Then I pick up the modern book and simply groan. Man, it's awful.

Everything is so sketchy in his Punisher War Journal run I am having trouble figuring out who is Frank and who is Jigsaw!

I have the same sort of reaction to Dan Jurgens art. At one point I found something he did pleasing enough that when I see his name in the solicits I think "Ok, that should be good" and then every time I pick up his new stuff it pains me.

Y'know, it's kinda funny, but the first two names I thought of when I heard that DH had the rights to new IIndiana Jones stories were Chaykin and Dan Jurgens, but maybe I'm just a hopeless old-timer...

[Leebenhouse]

Maybe its a process of finding the right inker? When Jurgens did the Hyperion mini a couple years back i thought his art was terrible, but his new Booster Gold has been good, though not up to Jurgens' Superman heydey.

I remember the Chaykin issue of New Avengers, and that was bad too.

I think its common for older artists to get looser with their pencils, so it becomes more imperative for a good inker to be on the job.

I've never read Chaykin's older stuff, but from his pinup work from that period, I was severely disapointed in the NA issue.

[Subotai]

His Phantom Eagle stuff has been great. Too bad few people are reading it.

[B. Kuwanger]

That was a story I felt he was suited for, but unfortunately I'm not really into most Ennis stuff.

Who normally does his inking, the same guy that did Man Who Laughs with Mahnke?

I have never liked the look of Chaykin's current Superhero comic book art, but he is a comic book legend no doubt, and the stuff he did in the 1980's was groundbreaking in many ways.

Young comic book readers just don't understand anything about the industry. This is not an insult to them, just the truth.
It's not about understanding the industry so much as it is opinion.