Heroes with Mental Health issues

[Post-It]

Aside from Moon Knight, Deadpool, all of Magneto's kids and Pym are there any big name heroes who have suffered or are currently suffering from mental health issues? By issues I don't mean characters who have snapped when angry but those who have suffer from delusions, depression, or another mental illness.

[Dr. Ghost]

Legion from X-Men.

[Beast]

Magneto himself. The powers he wields effects his mind. The more that he uses them, the crazier he gets.

Sentry. Not much to say there other than the guy's Superman who's kryptonite is psychological.

[Ghost Shark]

Namor was diagnosed as manic depressive, which accounted for some of his erratic behaviour in the past, although I believe that's pretty much ignored now.

[worstblogever]

Aurora from Alpha Flight has multiple personalities.

Daredevil's been going through chronic depression for awhile now.

Anole from New X-Men had Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

The Hulk has not only personality disorders, but obviously rage epilepsy. That's a gimme.

And both Tony Stark and Ms. Marvel are alcoholics.

And the Punisher... talk about obsessive.

[Beast]

Anole just needs a good beating. Then he'll be back to normal.

[DDM]

David Haller was autistic; whereas, he possessed very powerful telepathy, telekinesis, & pyrokinesis, but splinted from three other personalities. Two of the three were absorbed by his telepathy & gained specific powers. For instance, Jack Wayne gained David's telekinesis while the bomber received David's telepathy. Cindy, a female aspect created by David's own mind, possessed pyrokinesis. Therefore, David Haller suffers from austism with multiple personality disorder. See The New Mutants #26-28 & The New Mutants #44 for details.

Carol Danvers also suffered from multiple personality disorder when the Psyche-Magnitron rebuilt Carol's body & mind into a perfect Kree-human hybrid as Ms. Marvel; Carol would often suffer blackouts when Ms. Marvel manifested herself. However, Ms. Marvel's personality is no different from Carol's personality except it had fragmented from Carol's own psyche. Over time, Carol reintergrated the Kree aspect of herself back into her own mind by Ms. Marvel #19 (1977 series).

Rogue also suffered from multiple personality disorder as Carol Danvers' memories would confuse Rogue; Carol's personality came out completely in Uncanny X-Men #235-247 after briefly emerging in Uncanny X-Men #182. Carol Danvers could also control Rogue's mutant absorbtion power. Rogue had her final confrontation with "Ms. Marvel" in Uncanny X-Men #269.

Aurora of Alpha Flight suffers from a split personality disorder.

The original Jean Grey/Phoenix had some kind of disorder; as Phoenix, Jean was less inhibited as her powers made her feel better the more she used them. Dark Phoenix is a split personality from Jean Grey (she initially had no memory of Dark Phoenix's actions), although Jean Grey is Dark Phoenix.

[mcgaffer]

Obvious one, Wolvie's anger issues.
Cyke's obsession with telepaths, that's got tobe bad for the old mental health long term.

[Guest_1001]

Jack Monroe and the Grand Director both went insane because of their version of the Super-Soldier Serum. Oh, and some people say Hulk has anger problems but I've never noticed . . .

[Sentinel K]

The Sentry is as mad as a bag of hammers.

[Ghost Shark]

Spidey really needs to get over that whole Oedipal thing with Aunt May. It's creepy.

Luke Cage, before he settled into fatherhood, used to bed any and every super heroine he could.

She-Hulk was doing the same thing during Dan Slott's run. Well, everyone except Juggernaut, that is. Heh.

The Watcher is a Peeping Tom. Durned cosmic voyeur!

[Peeps]

i thought namors affliction was caused by an unbalance of oxygen in his blood between breathing above water and below

[Monty_Cristo]

Punisher's a psychopath.

[Ghost Shark]

i thought namors affliction was caused by an unbalance of oxygen in his blood between breathing above water and below

Y'know, that could very well be. It's been so long, I forget most of the details, but manic depressive stuck in my head for some reason.

[Ruki]

Peter claimed Norman Osborn is crazy.

[Monty_Cristo]

Peter claimed Norman Osborn is crazy.

he takes anti-hallucinogens and mood stabilizers.

[ivesaidway2much]

Peter claimed Norman Osborn is crazy.Clearly Peter has lost touch with reality. Norman Osborn is the world's greatest hero. He'll tell you that, himself, after he's done viciously beating complete random strangers for crimes they probably committed or will at some point in time.

[RedRonin]

Anyone who puts on a costume probably has sort of mental issue.

[jackolover]

The original Jean Grey/Phoenix had some kind of disorder; as Phoenix, Jean was less inhibited as her powers made her feel better the more she used them. Dark Phoenix is a split personality from Jean Grey (she initially had no memory of Dark Phoenix's actions), although Jean Grey is Dark Phoenix.

If you consider that a problem, then Sue Storm had the same problem with her split personality, Malice.

[Monty_Cristo]

Anyone who puts on a costume probably has sort of mental issue.

no wonder people are afraid of clowns.

[Peeps]

Y'know, that could very well be. It's been so long, I forget most of the details, but manic depressive stuck in my head for some reason.

it was namor #1 from the early 90s i believe, or was it the early 00's?

the older gentleman who helped him found Oracle had a theory that was the reason sometimes he would be completely reasonable and the next on the edge of lunatic fringe

he even made a sort of dialysis machine for Namor to oxygenize his blood properly

[carswell13]

Madcap.


Poor, poor crazy Madcap.

[joemagnum611]

Doesn't Colosuss have some kind of brain damage?

[Peeps]

Doesn't Colosuss have some kind of brain damage?


he did, but that was resolved by kitty phasing him enough that cyclops optic blast worked to heal his head tramau

[Shellhead]

Storm was claustrophobic. Vision too, at first.

Silver Surfer is probably clinically depressed, unless maybe his whole race is just naturally a bunch of whiny, emo nancyboys.

Adam Warlock had some major multiple personality issues back in the day.

Thanos has at times behaved heroically, and definitely has displayed a fear of success.

Ben Grimm has self-esteem issues.

Sheesh, it's a wonder that Marvel hasn't made a serious attempt at a Doc Samson monthly... all these patients, plus there's plenty of crazy villains.

[Post-It]

Storm was claustrophobic. Vision too, at first.

Silver Surfer is probably clinically depressed, unless maybe his whole race is just naturally a bunch of whiny, emo nancyboys.

Adam Warlock had some major multiple personality issues back in the day.

Thanos has at times behaved heroically, and definitely has displayed a fear of success.

Ben Grimm has self-esteem issues.

Sheesh, it's a wonder that Marvel hasn't made a serious attempt at a Doc Samson monthly... all these patients, plus there's plenty of crazy villains.


Now that would make for a good comic. If they wanted to inject humor into it they could have be a radio personality like Frasier.

[bushboy]

Doesn't Doc Samson have an inferiority complex?

[mikekerr3]

he takes anti-hallucinogens and mood stabilizers.

Now he is sane, not any less a villian though just calmer about it.:biggrin:

[Seo-optimizer]

Carol Danvers also suffered from multiple personality disorder when the Psyche-Magnitron rebuilt Carol's body & mind into a perfect Kree-human hybrid as Ms. Marvel; Carol would often suffer blackouts when Ms. Marvel manifested herself. However, Ms. Marvel's personality is no different from Carol's personality except it had fragmented from Carol's own psyche. Over time, Carol reintergrated the Kree aspect of herself back into her own mind by Ms. Marvel #19 (1977 series).

[StoneGold]

it was namor #1 from the early 90s i believe, or was it the early 00's?

the older gentleman who helped him found Oracle had a theory that was the reason sometimes he would be completely reasonable and the next on the edge of lunatic fringe

he even made a sort of dialysis machine for Namor to oxygenize his blood properly

That's it. Basically the half-breed Atlantean version of being bi-polar.

[Peeps]

Now that would make for a good comic. If they wanted to inject humor into it they could have be a radio personality like Frasier.

they did this with xforce. i believe the only way to truly do this correctly would be to have peter david write it and larry strogham (sp) on pencils

[Mississippienne]

Punisher's a psychopath.

Punisher is not a psychopath. He's a murderer, yes. People throw around 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' so much that the terms have almost lost their meaning. Psychopathy is a personality disorder with specific behaviors and mental psychology. Besides that, psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder are not synonymous, although they are related. Here's the checklist for psychopathy:

Factor1: Aggressive narcissism

Glibness / superficial charm Frank fascinates people, but he makes little to no effort to charm them.
Grandiose sense of self-worth He considers himself a soldier in an ongoing war, not a god or even neccesarily a hero.
Pathological lying Frank doesn't lie to get himself out of trouble, he lies to get closer to his targets.
Cunning / manipulative Frank is certainly cunning.
Lack of remorse or guilt Frank's monologues dwell often on his own bloody part in his private war and the personal toll thereof. He doesn't excuse what he does, but he does believe it must be done.
Shallow Frank is a deeply complex and emotional individual.
Callous / lack of empathy Frank has empathy for the victims of violent crime that he encounters, and he puts his own life on the line to protect innocents.
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Frank accepts himself as a killer and soldier.

Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle

Need for stimulation / proneness to boredom You could argue that his need to hunt down criminals is motivated at least in part by restlessness and a need to be proactive.
Parasitic lifestyle Frank depends on almost no one.
Poor behavioral control Frank is tightly controlled in everything he does.
Lack of realistic, long-term goals Frank's goals are probably unattainable.
Impulsivity Frank is premeditated and thinks out everything he does.
Irresponsibility Frank does everything possible to reduce collateral damage.
Juvenile delinquency As far as I know, he has no history of this.
Early behavior problems None known to me.
Revocation of conditional release None known to me.

Traits not correlated with either factor

Many short-term marital relationships Negative.
Promiscuous sexual behavior Negative. He's had, what, one lover since Maria died? Maybe two?
Criminal versatility Frank tends to be creative with what he does, but single-minded. He isn't out scamming elderly widows or molesting children.

Of all the characters in comicdom, Doctor Doom comes closest to being a textbook psychopath. Red Skull hits hard on a number of traits as well. Psychopaths utterly lack a conscience. They care about no one, they feel no empathy, and have no remorse. They use and abuse and manipulate to get what they want. They will do anything, including lying, cheating, stealing and killing, to avoid the consequences for their actions. Boredom drives their impulsive and thoughtless actions. As far as they're concerned, nothing is ever their fault, and anyway they're special snowflakes and the rules don't apply to them. They're not insane, they don't hear voices, they're capable of understanding what they do is wrong, they just don't care.

A few sociopaths become serial killers, but most make their way through life without much incident, using and abusing everyone in their path. Almost none of the 'sociopaths' and 'psychopaths' you see on television or movies are actually psychopaths or sociopaths -- the real ones are much, much scarier.

[Post-It]

Punisher is not a psychopath. He's a murderer, yes. People throw around 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' so much that the terms have almost lost their meaning. Psychopathy is a personality disorder with specific behaviors and mental psychology. Besides that, psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder are not synonymous, although they are related. .

Agreed. Cap said it best in the latest run in Moon Knight when he stated that while Frank belonged in prison, Spector belongs in a psycho ward.

[StoneGold]

Grandiose sense of self-worth He considers himself a soldier in an ongoing war, not a god or even neccesarily a hero.He also considers himself the only one who can get the job done. He's totally above the law, and has a tendency to kill similarly-minded vigilantes.
Pathological lying Frank doesn't lie to get himself out of trouble, he lies to get closer to his targets.I'm not sure what the distinction there is.
Lack of remorse or guilt Frank's monologues dwell often on his own bloody part in his private war and the personal toll thereof. He doesn't excuse what he does, but he does believe it must be done.I dunno, he seems to excuse what he does a lot. It's what they deserved.
Shallow Frank is a deeply complex and emotional individual.That really depends on the writer. And even then, 99% of the times the emotions, if he isn't just being a callous, emotionless machine, are anger and occasionally outrage.
Callous / lack of empathy Frank has empathy for the victims of violent crime that he encounters, and he puts his own life on the line to protect innocents.[/quote]Although it could be argued that it is mostly a mechanism to allow him to kill the bastards who did it. He does project an utter callousness to his own victims.
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Frank accepts himself as a killer and soldier.On the other hand, he doesn't seem to care much about the after effects. He kills a guy, and his son comes after him?


Poor behavioral control Frank is tightly controlled in everything he does.Most of the time, but not always. Get him riled up enough, he'll kill a guy.
Impulsivity Frank is premeditated and thinks out everything he does.See above. Although admittedly, it's the exception to the norm.
Juvenile delinquency As far as I know, he has no history of this.
Early behavior problems None known to me.It's never been brought up in the MAX books, but while he also studied to be a Catholic priest, he was also something of a hellraiser in his younger days. Not like killing animals or anything, more trespassing, vandalism, criminal mischief.

Revocation of conditional release None known to me.Closest he ever got to a conditional release was the original miniseries. That's because the guys who did it were evil, and he killed them. Frank's version of a conditional release is breaking out of prison.
Promiscuous sexual behavior Negative. He's had, what, one lover since Maria died? Maybe two?OK, off the top of my head, there was the hooker from Big Nothing, the butch chick from the regular series, the ninja, the mafia boss' daughter, O'Brien, Painkiller Jane, potentially Elektra, did he do that messed up girl from the wives run? and I think there's been a few others along the way, this is totally off the top of my head.
Criminal versatility Frank tends to be creative with what he does, but single-minded. He isn't out scamming elderly widows or molesting children.
That depends a lot on how you want to define criminal versatility. In addition to all kinds of murder charges, he's got weapons violations, grand theft just about everything, multiple prison escapes, assaults on officers, various illegal border crossings, what have you. They're all to aid in his war, but they're separate crimes.

[Cthulhudrew]

Captain Ultra used to suffer from pyrophobia, but was cured of it by Doc Samson.

[madrox1977]

Surely Frank is a victim of post truamatic stress disorder......just notched up to about 1,000,000 % above what most others go through, would also say he has survivor issues.

[Mississippienne]

Most of the time, but not always. Get him riled up enough, he'll kill a guy.

When has Frank ever killed anyone for just being annoying? He kills in self-defense or to get rid of someone who poses a physical threat to other people. He does not go around shooting little old ladies for driving slowly.

OK, off the top of my head, there was the hooker from Big Nothing, the butch chick from the regular series, the ninja, the mafia boss' daughter, O'Brien, Painkiller Jane, potentially Elektra, did he do that messed up girl from the wives run? and I think there's been a few others along the way, this is totally off the top of my head.

Painkiller Jane is out of continuity, isn't she? He was fascinated by Elektra, but it's not outright implied they got together, and honestly I doubt it.

[theardri]

Obvious one, Wolvie's anger issues.
Cyke's obsession with telepaths, that's got tobe bad for the old mental health long term.

Lets add in X-23's lack of Moral compas, and trigger scent problem.

I think Cyke also is depressive (given on several occasions Hank alludes to it (a) In one of the X annuals (the first one with Xorn, that was printed sideways) Hank says "Shh he's good with depressed people" and in Astonishing Xmen 25 he gives him a lecture over self sabotage!)

[MuhollandDriver]

Well....i do think Anole is a good case for PTSD.

As for multiple personalities....the official term is Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Many superheroes have had situations or states of mind that resemble multiplicity. Superheroes who have the disorder proper are:

Typhoid Mary
Legion
Moon Knight
Aurora

[Monty_Cristo]

Punisher is not a psychopath. He's a murderer, yes. People throw around 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' so much that the terms have almost lost their meaning. Psychopathy is a personality disorder with specific behaviors and mental psychology. Besides that, psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder are not synonymous, although they are related. Here's the checklist for psychopathy:

Factor1: Aggressive narcissism

Glibness / superficial charm Frank fascinates people, but he makes little to no effort to charm them.
Grandiose sense of self-worth He considers himself a soldier in an ongoing war, not a god or even neccesarily a hero.
Pathological lying Frank doesn't lie to get himself out of trouble, he lies to get closer to his targets.
Cunning / manipulative Frank is certainly cunning.
Lack of remorse or guilt Frank's monologues dwell often on his own bloody part in his private war and the personal toll thereof. He doesn't excuse what he does, but he does believe it must be done.
Shallow Frank is a deeply complex and emotional individual.
Callous / lack of empathy Frank has empathy for the victims of violent crime that he encounters, and he puts his own life on the line to protect innocents.
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Frank accepts himself as a killer and soldier.

Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle

Need for stimulation / proneness to boredom You could argue that his need to hunt down criminals is motivated at least in part by restlessness and a need to be proactive.
Parasitic lifestyle Frank depends on almost no one.
Poor behavioral control Frank is tightly controlled in everything he does.
Lack of realistic, long-term goals Frank's goals are probably unattainable.
Impulsivity Frank is premeditated and thinks out everything he does.
Irresponsibility Frank does everything possible to reduce collateral damage.
Juvenile delinquency As far as I know, he has no history of this.
Early behavior problems None known to me.
Revocation of conditional release None known to me.

Traits not correlated with either factor

Many short-term marital relationships Negative.
Promiscuous sexual behavior Negative. He's had, what, one lover since Maria died? Maybe two?
Criminal versatility Frank tends to be creative with what he does, but single-minded. He isn't out scamming elderly widows or molesting children.

Of all the characters in comicdom, Doctor Doom comes closest to being a textbook psychopath. Red Skull hits hard on a number of traits as well. Psychopaths utterly lack a conscience. They care about no one, they feel no empathy, and have no remorse. They use and abuse and manipulate to get what they want. They will do anything, including lying, cheating, stealing and killing, to avoid the consequences for their actions. Boredom drives their impulsive and thoughtless actions. As far as they're concerned, nothing is ever their fault, and anyway they're special snowflakes and the rules don't apply to them. They're not insane, they don't hear voices, they're capable of understanding what they do is wrong, they just don't care.

A few sociopaths become serial killers, but most make their way through life without much incident, using and abusing everyone in their path. Almost none of the 'sociopaths' and 'psychopaths' you see on television or movies are actually psychopaths or sociopaths -- the real ones are much, much scarier.


Punisher is a psychopath.

[Big Fresh]

Someday Daredevil will be the first major hero to commit suicide.

[IronPalm]

Typhoid Mary-multiple personality disorder (mpo)

[IronPalm]

Nova - (PE)

[Thomas Uk]

The portrayal of mental health in comics is so daft sometimes. Can't believe theres been so many 'Multiple personality disorder' cases. Its actually really rare in real life, well some people disagree that it even exists. It often gets confused with schizophrenia as well especially with Aurora but they are very different.

Another massive issue I have is how many characters in comics are killers because they are schizophrenic or mentally ill, it does happen but most schizophrenics aren't dangerous.

Sorry if it seems like a rant, I love comics for their campness sometimes but mental health is really mis-represented sometimes. I do think moon Knights been pretty good from what I've seen recently and the original isues of Pym with the whole domestic abuse and self destruction was done very well.

[jam]

Wendell Vaughn -- Quazar -- didn't he suffer from depression?

[MuhollandDriver]

The portrayal of mental health in comics is so daft sometimes. Can't believe theres been so many 'Multiple personality disorder' cases. Its actually really rare in real life, well some people disagree that it even exists. It often gets confused with schizophrenia as well especially with Aurora but they are very different.

Another massive issue I have is how many characters in comics are killers because they are schizophrenic or mentally ill, it does happen but most schizophrenics aren't dangerous.

Sorry if it seems like a rant, I love comics for their campness sometimes but mental health is really mis-represented sometimes. I do think moon Knights been pretty good from what I've seen recently and the original isues of Pym with the whole domestic abuse and self destruction was done very well.

Yes i'd agree :)

As for Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly called Multiple Personality Disorder).....there are many examples of multiplicity..or aspects of separate identities...without the person having the actualy disorder. Legion, Typhoid Mary, Moon Knight, and Aurora are the ones who have it proper. Even then...writers often get things wrong.

The diagnosis is controversial to this day. While rare, there is evidence coming out that it is a legitimate disorder. Some tests were done with those with the disorder. Brain activity would go into tension or trauma mode when a certain alter remembered childhood abuse. When the "core" persona showed up....who didn't remember the abuse...the brain activity went back to normal.

Even actors cannot do this. i found it quite interesting.

Anyway....comics often get labels mixed up..diagnoses wrong..all sorts of things!

[Hypestyle]

if the Sentry's sickness is cured.. does he lose his powers?

[Mississippienne]

The portrayal of mental health in comics is so daft sometimes. Can't believe theres been so many 'Multiple personality disorder' cases. Its actually really rare in real life, well some people disagree that it even exists. It often gets confused with schizophrenia as well especially with Aurora but they are very different.

Another massive issue I have is how many characters in comics are killers because they are schizophrenic or mentally ill, it does happen but most schizophrenics aren't dangerous.

Oh yeah, I have big issues with schizophrenia (or "shizophrenia" with quotes, because a lot of the time it doesn't resemble real schizophrenia) in comics. Schizophrenia isn't DID (multiple personalities), it's seeing and hearing things that aren't there. They might see a door where there is no door, or hear garbled voices. My brother, who suffers from schizophrenia, would do things like come into my room in the middle of the night, shake me awake, and demand to know why I was crying. "But I'm asleep! I'm not crying!" I'd tell him, and he'd get angry and say, "I heard you crying. I heard you!"

Punisher is a psychopath

No, he is not. If anything, Frank's capacity for empathy, careful forethought and planning, and self-introspection completely defies the psychopathy diagnosis. Psychopaths aren't introspective, and they don't struggle with their choices: why should they, they're special. You may not like the Punisher, but that doesn't make him a psychopath. You may think he's a murderer, and that's true, but that doesn't make him a psychopath. You may disagree with every aspect of the character's existence, but that doesn't make him a psychopath.

Although it could be argued that it is mostly a mechanism to allow him to kill the bastards who did it. He does project an utter callousness to his own victims.

This I must disagree with. Frank will go out of his way to protect victims, and even follow-up on them later (as he did with the former sex slaves in Slavers) to see how they're doing. He may be gruff and callous, but that's just his personality. And he is capable of tenderness, for example whenever he's with Joan the Mouse.

A sidenote on what I said before regarding Frank and sexual promiscuity: the psychopathic trait of sexual promiscuity isn't just sleeping around with a lot of people. You could find dozens of sorority chicks on any college campus with daddy issues who sleep around, and that doesn't make them psychopaths. What we're looking for when diagnosing a psychopath is someone who makes promises to someone, or many someones, and then continues to sleep around behind their backs because they don't care about hurting the people who love them. It's another manifestation of their lack of empathy. Normal people will feel bad about screwing around on their husband or wife who loves and trusts them. Psychopaths don't, because to them their husband or wife only exists to satisfy their needs whenever they want.

[Thomas Uk]

Yes i'd agree :)

As for Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly called Multiple Personality Disorder).....there are many examples of multiplicity..or aspects of separate identities...without the person having the actualy disorder. Legion, Typhoid Mary, Moon Knight, and Aurora are the ones who have it proper. Even then...writers often get things wrong.

The diagnosis is controversial to this day. While rare, there is evidence coming out that it is a legitimate disorder. Some tests were done with those with the disorder. Brain activity would go into tension or trauma mode when a certain alter remembered childhood abuse. When the "core" persona showed up....who didn't remember the abuse...the brain activity went back to normal.

Even actors cannot do this. i found it quite interesting.

Anyway....comics often get labels mixed up..diagnoses wrong..all sorts of things!

It is a controvertial disorder thats for sure, I think in America its been much more widely discussed and more willingly identified, I'm not sure whether its considered a proper disorder by the British Psychological Association, from my experience at University its definately something looked at rather skeptically over here.

I've heard talk of some of those more neurological disscusions of its occurance but never read any of the journals, you got any copies or links to em mate?

I think that sometimes there is a natural duplicity of characters personalities in comics. You do afterall have characters becoming other people and wearing other personas as they do costumes, hiding behind masks and having secret identities is all part of the charm and characters like the Hulk who have distinctly identifiable seperate personalities in the tradition of books like Jekyl and Hyde. They are interesting to read about. I think the danger comes in when conditions like those have been attempted to be medicalized, perhaps in attempt to make the comic more realistic or grounded. Even good writers can perpetuate misconceptions in this way!

Its really cool to see some decent discussion around these issues!

[Red Orion]

Thor suffered a psychotic break during the "Blood & Thunder" storyline brought on as a result of Odin merging him with mortals, giving others his identity, imprisoning him in mortals minds, exiling him, taking away his powers (which ended up killing him once), and other things.

[MuhollandDriver]

Yes, Thomas UK! Check out the book "Multiplicity: The New Science of Personality, Identity, and the Self" by Rita Carter. The studies were discussed in that book. There are likely citations. The entire book is not about Dissociative Identity Disorder..but a section does discuss it in detail. According to the author..the answers over the controversy are in between. While the disorder was very overdiagnosed during the craze, it is still a legitimate, if rare, disorder.
i belief falls in line with her thinking.

Mike Carey had a character call Aurora "Schizophrenic" i believe....and i was thinking "No Mike! Nonononono! She has Dissociative Identity Disorder!"

He did write her dissociative states quite accurately tho.

[Thomas Uk]

Yes, Thomas UK! Check out the book "Multiplicity: The New Science of Personality, Identity, and the Self" by Rita Carter. The studies were discussed in that book. There are likely citations. The entire book is not about Dissociative Identity Disorder..but a section does discuss it in detail. According to the author..the answers over the controversy are in between. While the disorder was very overdiagnosed during the craze, it is still a legitimate, if rare, disorder.
i belief falls in line with her thinking.

Mike Carey had a character call Aurora "Schizophrenic" i believe....and i was thinking "No Mike! Nonononono! She has Dissociative Identity Disorder!"

He did write her dissociative states quite accurately tho.

Ahh thanks mate I'll try and track that book down, that chapter in particular sounds really interesting. her conclusion does sound sensible, Ive heard of people faking the disorder or it being over-diagnosed in its early days. Thanks a lot for that.

The example with carey you were talking about stood out for me as well, it was well written just the classification was a bit wrong! I suppose its an easy mistake to make though if your research is based on older comics which made the same mistake.

[StoneGold]

[When has Frank ever killed anyone for just being annoying? He kills in self-defense or to get rid of someone who poses a physical threat to other people. He does not go around shooting little old ladies for driving slowly.
He used to. And jaywalkers and litterbugs. Course, he was drugged at the time. That said, just off the top of my head, he blew off Microchip's skull with a shotgun, and Chip didn't pose much of a threat. But that wasn't what I was referring to. Get Frank angry enough, and he'll go impulsive, off plan. Not because someone was annoying. I never mentioned annoying.


Painkiller Jane is out of continuity, isn't she? He was fascinated by Elektra, but it's not outright implied they got together, and honestly I doubt it.

Even if I grant you those, he's hardly a neuter.

[StoneGold]

This I must disagree with. Frank will go out of his way to protect victims, and even follow-up on them later (as he did with the former sex slaves in Slavers) to see how they're doing. He may be gruff and callous, but that's just his personality. And he is capable of tenderness, for example whenever he's with Joan the Mouse.Again, I restate, he does project an utter callousness to his victims. You're filling in words I didn't write

A sidenote on what I said before regarding Frank and sexual promiscuity: the psychopathic trait of sexual promiscuity isn't just sleeping around with a lot of people. You could find dozens of sorority chicks on any college campus with daddy issues who sleep around, and that doesn't make them psychopaths. What we're looking for when diagnosing a psychopath is someone who makes promises to someone, or many someones, and then continues to sleep around behind their backs because they don't care about hurting the people who love them. It's another manifestation of their lack of empathy. Normal people will feel bad about screwing around on their husband or wife who loves and trusts them. Psychopaths don't, because to them their husband or wife only exists to satisfy their needs whenever they want.

Thing is, a good chunk of Frank's sexual conquests have been "for the mission." It's purely what he gets out of it.

[madrox1977]

I work in the mental health sector and in 12yrs i have only seen 2 cases of Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Would agree that Carey's protrail of Aurora's situation was very good, and completely agree with the talk about marvel [and other companies] use of DANGEROUS SCHIZOPHRENICS most i know couldn't muster the motivation to even leave their house let alone plot an elaborate plan to kill and maim people [realise i have just jinxed my next week in work but what the hell]

[Schuimend Mormel]

I haven't read a lot of Legion (David Haller) appearances. How did the writers handle his autism?

[DDM]

I haven't read a lot of Legion (David Haller) appearances. How did the writers handle his autism?

Chris Claremont handles it really well by having David Haller just really zone out the rest of his personalities within his head. Read The New Mutants #26-28. David Haller seems to be in control at the end of the storyline; however, he still has 3 other multiple personalities within his mind.

[Zero Hunter]

Someday Daredevil will be the first major hero to commit suicide.


I don't know is you would call him a major character, but the second Vigilante over at DC beat him to it years ago. In the 50th (and last) issue of his own series he comitted suicide.

[MuhollandDriver]

Ahh thanks mate I'll try and track that book down, that chapter in particular sounds really interesting. her conclusion does sound sensible, Ive heard of people faking the disorder or it being over-diagnosed in its early days. Thanks a lot for that.

The example with carey you were talking about stood out for me as well, it was well written just the classification was a bit wrong! I suppose its an easy mistake to make though if your research is based on older comics which made the same mistake.

You are welcome! Let me know what You think.

If You type her name in a search engine..You can find articles by her on the topic also.

[RaulTheCat]

The Punisher is a murderer whose uses the death of his family to kill people. Not exactly mentally stable.
Peter Parker must have some sort of Oedipal issue, in regards to Aunt May. He gave up his marriage to save her life, even though it was probably her time to go.

[Monty_Cristo]

Someday Daredevil will be the first major hero to commit suicide.

isn't suicide a big no-no in Catholicism? if Murdock really wanted to die, i think he'd just throw a fight with Bullseye.

[Monty_Cristo]

No, he is not. If anything, Frank's capacity for empathy, careful forethought and planning, and self-introspection completely defies the psychopathy diagnosis. Psychopaths aren't introspective, and they don't struggle with their choices: why should they, they're special. You may not like the Punisher, but that doesn't make him a psychopath. You may think he's a murderer, and that's true, but that doesn't make him a psychopath. You may disagree with every aspect of the character's existence, but that doesn't make him a psychopath.


i don't disagree with his existence. i'm just not the kind of person who goes out of their way to justify a character's bad behavior. Frank's a psycho. he just focuses it in a way that some people find "heroic." i don't believe for one second that he doesn't get off on killing. a person who can kill as frequently as he does and sleep at night is, at the very least, a sociopath. empathy can be faked.

[Mississippienne]

i don't disagree with his existence. i'm just not the kind of person who goes out of their way to justify a character's bad behavior. Frank's a psycho. he just focuses it in a way that some people find "heroic." i don't believe for one second that he doesn't get off on killing. a person who can kill as frequently as he does and sleep at night is, at the very least, a sociopath. empathy can be faked.

Pardon me, but don't call me an apologist. What's the first thing I said when I questioned your diagnosis of Frank as a psychopath? That he's a murderer. That's indisputable. Frank takes the law into his own hands (mind you, dozens of superheroes prior to Civil War were vigilantes) and he kills. Wolverine does too, as has Colossus, and Iron Man, and quite a few others. Wolverine's body count is probably vastly bigger than Frank's. Whether Frank is even a superhero is worth debating. But he's not a psychopath -- have you ever read an issue of Punisher and seen his internal monologue? His introspection? He could fake out other characters, but not the readers. He is empathic, to the point of following up on victims of violent crime to see how they're doing, to saving babies and children (including his own infant daughter), people who could do nothing to further his mission. Psychopaths are notoriously disinterested in the welfare of children.

I'm not even the world's biggest Punisher fan, it's not like I own every single issue he appears in, but I do not believe that he's a psychopath, and every trait someone brings up is either flawed, or grossly exaggerated.

He used to. And jaywalkers and litterbugs. Course, he was drugged at the time. That said, just off the top of my head, he blew off Microchip's skull with a shotgun, and Chip didn't pose much of a threat. But that wasn't what I was referring to. Get Frank angry enough, and he'll go impulsive, off plan. Not because someone was annoying. I never mentioned annoying.

The hell? Have you read the Max issues with Barracuda? Even when Barracuda killed his friend, kidnapped his infant child, beat the ever-living hell out of him, and just kept getting up and coming back for more punishment, Frank never flipped out and became a kitten-eating maniac. After the ordeal was over, Frank just picked up his daughter and took her to a safe place. If he didn't crack under that pressure, nothing'll do it.

Even when Cavella dug up his dead wife and children's graves and pissed on their remains, Frank cooly channeled his anger into methodically taking Cavella down. Was he angry? Hells yes. Was he impulsive? Stupid? Knee-jerk? NO.

He was DRUGGED when he killed those jaywalkers and litter-bugs. I mean, should we call Jessica Jones a masochistic slut because Purple Man mind-controlled her? Should we say Spider-Man's a cold-blooded murderer because in the heat of battle with Wolverine, he accidently punched Logan's girlfriend who dove in to suicide-by-superhero?

Microchip was involved in shady dealings involving drug smuggling and arms dealing. It's hardly like Frank just showed up and capped him on a sadistic whim. Frank offered him the chance to flee with his life. Stupidly thinking Frank could never bring himself to kill him, Microchip declined. Game over.