The moral compass is a little off today!!!

[mcgaffer]

Basically what is the coldest thing you've seen a hero do, whether the person deserved it or not. What scenes have really shocked you, leaving you thinking, 'That ain't the person i know.'

This is kind off inspired by Cyclops forming a secret team of X-Men and sending them out as a hit squad.

One of the things that made me think, ok , that's cold, was when Wolvie told Magneto Geist's address. Ok, Geist was a nazi, but that ending where Magneto turns up on his doorstep in civilian clothes and puts an arm around Geists shoulders, guiding him back inside. That sent a shiver down my spine, you just know that Geist screamed for a very long time.

[Monty_Cristo]

Basically what is the coldest thing you've seen a hero do, whether the person deserved it or not. What scenes have really shocked you, leaving you thinking, 'That ain't the person i know.'

This is kind off inspired by Cyclops forming a secret team of X-Men and sending them out as a hit squad.

One of the things that made me think, ok , that's cold, was when Wolvie told Magneto Geist's address. Ok, Geist was a nazi, but that ending where Magneto turns up on his doorstep in civilian clothes and puts an arm around Geists shoulders, guiding him back inside. That sent a shiver down my spine, you just know that Geist screamed for a very long time.


Ant-Man attempted to screw his dead best friend's girlfriend on his dead best friend's fresh grave. in the same issue, he punched through the neck of a guy beating his wife, next door. then he burnt the face off of one of his poker buddies; sending him into early retirement. he also punched an elderly man in the nuts.

[Guest_1001]

I could say but it'd give away the ending of the Wisdom mini-series. Anyone who has read it will know though.

[phantom1592]

Just off the top of my head, I didn't care for Daredevil taking a shard of glass and carving a bullseye into .... Bullseye's forehead. Damn, I thought DD was better than THAT! That's like Punisher stuff there.

[Jake V]

Just off the top of my head, I didn't care for Daredevil taking a shard of glass and carving a bullseye into .... Bullseye's forehead. Damn, I thought DD was better than THAT! That's like Punisher stuff there.

um. Wouldn't the Punisher have just killed him?

[Monty_Cristo]

Just off the top of my head, I didn't care for Daredevil taking a shard of glass and carving a bullseye into .... Bullseye's forehead. Damn, I thought DD was better than THAT! That's like Punisher stuff there.

it was a decent carving. i don't think Bullseye has anything to complain about. now, if he had carved PWNED or something...

[phantom1592]

um. Wouldn't the Punisher have just killed him?

Usually, but Jigsaw got away with just a messed up face quite a few times. (don't know if ever did get killed yet or not.) Once in a while... a GREAT while Frank wants to send a message ;)

[CyberHubbs]

um. Wouldn't the Punisher have just killed him?

AFTER carving the bullseye into the dude's forehead.

I remember an old issue of Punisher where he tied a woman's hair to a ladder in a pool and left her there to drown. Pretty sure she deserved to die, but not sure if drowning was the way to go. That's a nasty way to kill someone.

Also, in before Iron Man/Civil War tears the thread apart!

[Monty_Cristo]

AFTER carving the bullseye into the dude's forehead.

I remember an old issue of Punisher where he tied a woman's hair to a ladder in a pool and left her there to drown. Pretty sure she deserved to die, but not sure if drowning was the way to go. That's a nasty way to kill someone.

Also, in before Iron Man/Civil War tears the thread apart!


drowning's supposed to be kind of peaceful. being fed to bears on the other hand...

[CyberHubbs]

drowning's supposed to be kind of peaceful. being fed to bears on the other hand...

Has any villains ever been fed to a bear(s)?

[Agent_Torpor]

Ant-Man attempted to screw his dead best friend's girlfriend on his dead best friend's fresh grave. in the same issue, he punched through the neck of a guy beating his wife, next door. then he burnt the face off of one of his poker buddies; sending him into early retirement. he also punched an elderly man in the nuts.

I really, really, really have to collect all the issues of that series.

Anyway, for sheer brutality, that Ennis-penned climactic battle between Punisher and Barracuda, just disgusting.

[Monty_Cristo]

Has any villains ever been fed to a bear(s)?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/magnucci.htm

[Siddon]

There was this one time when this major hero to win made his plucky sidekick engage in unhealthy activities with a monkey.

But who remembers Superman and Jimmy Olson anyways.

[Zel]

The recent issue of Ms. Marvel. She flies a superskrull up into orbit so it'll suffocate, then just floats there watching it die with a little smile on her face. Way creepy.

[Alex Scott]

I thought it was kinda dickish for Spider-Man to fight Rhino at his (Rhino's) mother's grave, even after he figured it out, in Fallen Son. Seems to me the right thing to do is back off and apologize as best you can... and then run like hell.

[Abrojo]

I really, really, really have to collect all the issues of that series.

Anyway, for sheer brutality, that Ennis-penned climactic battle between Punisher and Barracuda, just disgusting.

most of Ennis arcs in Punisher usually involve something brutal :P

[RedRonin]

Punisher once shot someone for jaywalking. Kind of funny though.

[jackolover]

Tony Stark, in any of his incarnations:

His discard of Spiderwoman in CW NA
His thrashing of Cap in CW #3
His murder of Avengers in "Crossing"

[Monty_Cristo]

Tony Stark, in any of his incarnations:

His discard of Spiderwoman in CW NA
His thrashing of Cap in CW #3
His murder of Avengers in "Crossing"

uhh, didn't Captain America beat him up too? and didn't Spider-woman betray him?

[jackolover]

uhh, didn't Captain America beat him up too? and didn't Spider-woman betray him?

So Cap punked out Tony?

And how exactly did SW betray Tony?

[Monty_Cristo]

So Cap punked out Tony?

And how exactly did SW betray Tony?

by being a spy for Nick Fury and Hydra. she obviously wasn't slick enough to hide her knowledge of the super-adaptoid, as well. Tony suspected her at that point too.

[Kevinroc]

by being a spy for Nick Fury and Hydra. she obviously wasn't slick enough to hide her knowledge of the super-adaptoid, as well. Tony suspected her at that point too.

And her Secret Invasion connections... Turns out that was one character that Tony was inadvertently right about being a **** to.

[Omega Alpha]

I think it's funny people are whining about Tony treating Spider-Woman badly now. And then many complain that I say people are just looking for excuses to whine about Tony. What's next? "That Stark bastard, how dare him kick Kang's ass?".

But overall, the moral compass isn't off. The world is pretty different from the 60's, when the first moral guidelines for Marvel heroes were established. Plus, there isn't the code anymore.

[Sean Whitmore]

Also, in before Iron Man/Civil War tears the thread apart!

Tony Stark, in any of his incarnations:

His discard of Spiderwoman in CW NA
His thrashing of Cap in CW #3
His murder of Avengers in "Crossing"

Damn, Cyber, you made that by the skin of your teeth.


SEAN

[B. Kuwanger]

That scene with the Rhino in Fallen Son was terrible. That is probably the only time I can remember feeling awkward reading a comic.

This may be more of a "wtf" moment, which are kinda common with the character, but Wolverine ripping into the LMD in Secret War? I'd hate to see Logan in jail.

[jackolover]

I think it's funny people are whining about Tony treating Spider-Woman badly now. And then many complain that I say people are just looking for excuses to whine about Tony. What's next? "That Stark bastard, how dare him kick Kang's ass?".



I base my moral compass for Tony on how he treated people before CW, and after, he turned into Saddam Hussein. Before CW, he treated everyone fairly. How can he turn like he did?

[Sean Whitmore]

Before CW, he treated everyone fairly.

Not entirely accurate. He has a history of putting his belief that what he's doing is right ahead of his friends' and teammates' feelings.


SEAN

[ivesaidway2much]

I thought it was kinda dickish for Spider-Man to fight Rhino at his (Rhino's) mother's grave, even after he figured it out, in Fallen Son. Seems to me the right thing to do is back off and apologize as best you can... and then run like hell.That one really bothered me, too.

[CyberHubbs]

Damn, Cyber, you made that by the skin of your teeth.


SEAN

I use my powers only for good. And chicks.

Mostly for chicks.

[Arrogantcur]

I HATED what Penance did to Nitro.

I've already written my reasons on ComiXfan, so will copy what I wrote there into this post...

I found the part of Civil War: Frontline where he had the iron maiden suit put on him hard to get through. It would've been a lot worse if he'd been an unwilling victim, though.

And an unwilling victim is exactly what Nitro was.

I've read about how Penance beat him, then took off the suit, then put it on Nitro and continued to beat and torture him. It literally gives me a sick feeling in my stomach just to think about.

I read about this in a CBR thread where only one person said it was awful. Everybody else was taking sadistic pleasure in it, one guy going so far as to say that this should be standard operating procedure with all villains.

Baldwin's gone too far, and if this is Jenkins' idea of justice then he doesn't belong in the industry.

AdamWarlock responded...

I didn't read it, I don't read anything by Paul Jenkins anymore. Not since he wasted half of a Silver Surfer book talking about how he came up with the Sentry as a six year old.

Umm why didn't Nitro just explode and obliterate the Penence armor? And then reform healed and leave? Sounds almost as bad as what occured in the Wolverine Civil War storyline... no continuity at all with Nitro's powers.

Then me again...

Wish I had an answer for you, but I'm relying on second hand information. Maybe when the trade comes out I'll flip through it in the store.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the reason is that the powers that be at Marvel really do think that things like being tortured indefinitely by the Atlanteans and being locked into a suit that pierces every part of your flesh are "justice". It seems that since Civil War, Nitro only shows up when somebody wants to take another pound of flesh for Stamford. Never mind that his target was Namorita and he didn't consciously decide "hey, you know what would would be really fun? Blowing up a lot of schoolchildren!" Never mind that he was first trying to run away before Namorita tackled him and removed "flight" as an option, making his only option "fight", resulting in the explosion. Never mind that in The Civil War Files it says that Nitro's powers have affected his mental faculties over time. Never mind that his transgression pales beside other villains' body counts. No, he deserves to be punished over and over again in increasingly horrible ways.

Now, before he was locked into the armor Baldwin apparently beat him into submission, so maybe he was too weak to activate his powers or something. But I find it more likely that the reason he didn't explode was because TPTB at Marvel didn't want him to. They wanted him to suffer.

And finally Adam again...

Sadly that seems the most likely explanation. Considering it takes but a thought to trigger the explosion (though Iron Man once figured out the radiological trigger that caused him to explode and continously sent it over and over again so that he exploded upon reforming untill he eventually reformed unconcious.

I absolutely loathe what has been done to Speedball by Jenkins or whoever had this idea. I don't care how many people Nitro has killed. NOBODY deserves that shit. Anybody who thinks Baldwin did the right thing here, that it's something all villains deserve...Jesus, I don't know whether to be angry at people like that or scared that we live in a society which spawns them.

[Wind-Breaker]

The recent issue of Ms. Marvel. She flies a superskrull up into orbit so it'll suffocate, then just floats there watching it die with a little smile on her face. Way creepy.

I wish Wonder Woman was more like that sometimes :tongue: Carol pulled a Wayne Brady "choked a b*tch".

But seriously nobody tops Eric O'Grady in this for the reason's Monty stated.

[mikekerr3]

I HATED what Penance did to Nitro.

I've already written my reasons on ComiXfan, so will copy what I wrote there into this post...



AdamWarlock responded...



Then me again...



And finally Adam again...



I absolutely loathe what has been done to Speedball by Jenkins or whoever had this idea. I don't care how many people Nitro has killed. NOBODY deserves that shit. Anybody who thinks Baldwin did the right thing here, that it's something all villains deserve...Jesus, I don't know whether to be angry at people like that or scared that we live in a society which spawns them.


The essential point is Baldwin was insane. But, I will agree thinking that torture is OK is just plain sickening.. Just killing the SOB would have been fine with me though.

[Cyclopsj316]

What Moon Knight did to Bushman.

Drove him to new heights.. and I loved it. :evilsmile:

Other than that, whoever brought up Punisher's "Ma Gnucci" Is a G. :cool:

[Mississippienne]

it was a decent carving. i don't think Bullseye has anything to complain about. now, if he had carved PWNED or something...

There was a case a year or two ago, where a murderer who'd killed a little girl happened to be sent to the same prison as his victim's cousin. The cousin got ahold of him and carved his victim's name into his forehead. No matter where he goes or what he does, everytime he shows his face, there she is.

Punisher shooting jaywalkers happened when he was drugged or mind-controlled or something, I don't remember. He wasn't in his right mind (or what passes for right for Frank).

[TeamED209]

What about wolverine he's always killing ppl for about the same reasons as punisher but no one labels him a criminal....also i think it's pretty immoral when he kills security guards and stuff that are just employee's.

[StoneGold]

Remember when Punisher started shooting at jaywalkers and litterbugs?

[Guest_1001]

I absolutely loathe what has been done to Speedball by Jenkins or whoever had this idea. I don't care how many people Nitro has killed. NOBODY deserves that shit. Anybody who thinks Baldwin did the right thing here, that it's something all villains deserve...Jesus, I don't know whether to be angry at people like that or scared that we live in a society which spawns them.

I didn't read the Penance/Nitro book where that happened but I agree with you. Just reading it on Wikipedia left a bad taste in my mouth. If there was some grander plan to make Penance and Nitro into nemeses, I'd have been okay with it but as it was, it was just some petty and downright sick and disturbing way of giving Penance his pound of flesh. And more than that, you were exactly right, Arrogantcur, it was made disturbing because Nitro was an unwilling victim.

Which is why I don't read Ghost Rider. That book is based around a character who is an unwilling victim . . .

[RedRonin]

His thrashing of Cap in CW #3

HAHAHA

Iron Man is a jerk for kicking the crap out of Cap after Cap sucker punched him? Gotta love the internet.

And let's not forget Rogers watching the Punisher kill two people and doing nothing about it.

[Sean Whitmore]

And let's not forget Rogers watching the Punisher kill two people and doing nothing about it.

Didn't he...beat him up?


SEAN

[HepOne]

I could say but it'd give away the ending of the Wisdom mini-series. Anyone who has read it will know though.

I thought this was an anti-climatic and bad ending to the series.

The recent issue of Ms. Marvel. She flies a superskrull up into orbit so it'll suffocate, then just floats there watching it die with a little smile on her face. Way creepy.

She did a similar thing with Puppet Man but she was soo broken up about it. Brian Reed has trouble writing consistant characterisation for Ms Marvel.As a former Air Force agent I dont expect Ms Marvel to shy away from killing but she shouldnt be so sadistic.

[hawkeye comeback]

[QUOTE=RedRonin;7114306]HAHAHA

Iron Man is a jerk for kicking the crap out of Cap after Cap sucker punched him? QUOTE]

No iron man is a jerk for giving more power to the facistic U.S. goverment, to register people for a reson they have no control about is just plain wrong

[RedRonin]

Didn't he...beat him up?


SEAN
Not quite the same as turn him in.

Vulture steals stiff gets beaten and left for the cops.

Punisher kills 2 people for nothing and he gets smacked around a little and then let go.

[RedRonin]

No iron man is a jerk for giving more power to the facistic U.S. goverment, to register people for a reson they have no control about is just plain wrong

Except Iron Man didn't give them that power.

[rZi]

Spider-Man hitting mary-jane sticks out to me.

Also when Peter bashed the scorpion (mac) just because he wanted to.

[hawkeye comeback]

Except Iron Man didn't give them that power.

yeah he did he let them use stark tech and he helped create the negative zone prison that gave them the power to implement the shra

[B. Kuwanger]

Not quite the same as turn him in.

Vulture steals stiff gets beaten and left for the cops.

Punisher kills 2 people for nothing and he gets smacked around a little and then let go.
Thing is, Cap was mad at him because he killed bad guys. Killed bad guys. The Punisher.

And honestly you're not gonna punk Frank Castle like you would the Vulture.

[RedRonin]

Thing is, Cap was mad at him because he killed bad guys. Killed bad guys. The Punisher.

And honestly you're not gonna punk Frank Castle like you would the Vulture.
Punisher let him beat him and wasn't fighting back. So yeah, he could he punked him more easily than the Vulture.

Rogers let him walk, after murdering 2 people, regardless of who did it, he should have turned him in. If you except the Punisher kills badgusy as that's his thing, then you have to do that for the Vulture too.

[RedRonin]

yeah he did he let them use stark tech and he helped create the negative zone prison that gave them the power to implement the shra
Just want to be clear, you said:

No iron man is a jerk for giving more power to the facistic U.S. goverment, to register people for a reson they have no control about is just plain wrong I took this as Iron Man gave them power to pass the SHRA, which he didn't that happened completely independently of him. He didn't give the government the power to make superhumans register.

Or did you mean he gave them the power to enforce the law? Because even then they already had SHIELD, which granted uses Stark tech, IIRC.

[mcgaffer]

Stark knew the SHRA was coming in and he tried to stop it. The only thing he did that he can be completely blamed for is that he only discussed it with two other people, Pym and Richards. These three decided to run this thing themselves. If they had thought this through properly then Cap would have been in on the meeting, Cyclops should have been there. In fact the leaders of all the teams should have been at that meeting, where they would have been debriefed and could have been prepared for it.

[Alan2099]

um. Wouldn't the Punisher have just killed him?

I remember Punisher once beat Bullseye and blew huge holes though both of the guys hands and left him there to suffer.

Not quite the same as turn him in.

Vulture steals stiff gets beaten and left for the cops.

Punisher kills 2 people for nothing and he gets smacked around a little and then let go.

Bullseye, Green Goblin, and Venom kill a bunch of people, they're given a cushy government job.

[B. Kuwanger]

Punisher let him beat him and wasn't fighting back. So yeah, he could he punked him more easily than the Vulture.
"Let [Rogers] beat him" contradicts "punked him." Cage present or not, the whole plot would have been derailed if they tried to leave the Punisher for the police because he just wasn't going down like that.

Rogers let him walk, after murdering 2 people, regardless of who did it, he should have turned him in. If you except the Punisher kills badgusy as that's his thing, then you have to do that for the Vulture too.
Rogers isn't guilty of letting him go, he's guilty of letting him in. The two cases aren't quite the same because Cap didn't let Vulture into the store and set the items in front of him. The whole Punisher thing is more similar to Bullseye killing those T-Bolt guards and how Stark is directly responsible.

[RedRonin]

Bullseye, Green Goblin, and Venom kill a bunch of people, they're given a cushy government job.

No one said that was right, but it sure is entertaining.

[RedRonin]

"Let [Rogers] beat him" contradicts "punked him." Cage present or not, the whole plot would have been derailed if they tried to leave the Punisher for the police because he just wasn't going down like that. Well now we're just splitting hairs.


Rogers isn't guilty of letting him go, he's guilty of letting him in. The two cases aren't quite the same because Cap didn't let Vulture into the store and set the items in front of him.

You're right they are not the same, in one case some money was stolen, in the other, 2 lives were ended. But they are similar in that in both cases Rogers witnessed a crime, in one of those he did something.

[B. Kuwanger]

Well, as far as murder goes, I don't think that if two people are involved one has the right to turn in the other and keep on the run. If an outlaw rebel superhero did that it'd be some real half assed justice. Thinking back now, I still enjoy CW as an action story, but the characterization really was off more than I'd thought. Those deaths should have been the turning point for the whole thing.

And it's not really splitting hairs, I'm just saying that I think the fact that they probably couldn't stop the Punisher if they'd wanted to adds to the fact that they didn't.

[Magneto Rocks]

No! No no no no no no no! I read through 3 pages of this thread and it was SO close to not just being another Civil War-esque argument (aside from Jackolover's bizarre assertion that Iron Man's a jerk for hitting someone who smashes him in the face in a truce two minutes earlier and for being suspicious of the Skrull Queen. I mean, of all the shady things he did, THOSE ones are picked?) and it cannot be derailed now!

So in an effort to willfully ignore that....

... I suppose it's not fair to say WWH was the Hulk's moral compass straying, he's never really had it so much as some characters.

Have the FF ever had their moral compasses SERIOUSLY wander? I'm talking big time, not just Johnny letting a bank robber go and sleeping with him. (That's pretty standard Johnny fare.) In Authoritive Action, Reed was a total dick to the others but that was just so he could go sacrifice himself. I suppose there's something kind of warped about driving your family away to trap your arch-foe in an inescapable dimension with you for eternity.

[Push You Down]

drowning's supposed to be kind of peaceful. being fed to bears on the other hand...

....................whoever told you that is f-ing liar. It is not peaceful. Your body overrides any mental sense of calm you might be trying to feel. Breathing is an involuntary action and your body struggles with all available power to get air. If someone looks peaceful drownging. It's because they are already dead.

[Arrogantcur]

The essential point is Baldwin was insane. But, I will agree thinking that torture is OK is just plain sickening.. Just killing the SOB would have been fine with me though.

I agree, and while I know some people would think that even a quick death would be too extreme it's still certainly a lot more merciful than what's been done to him.

I didn't read the Penance/Nitro book where that happened but I agree with you. Just reading it on Wikipedia left a bad taste in my mouth. If there was some grander plan to make Penance and Nitro into nemeses, I'd have been okay with it but as it was, it was just some petty and downright sick and disturbing way of giving Penance his pound of flesh. And more than that, you were exactly right, Arrogantcur, it was made disturbing because Nitro was an unwilling victim.

Which is why I don't read Ghost Rider. That book is based around a character who is an unwilling victim . . .

Thanks. Knowing that I'm not the only one who felt that way about it does make me feel a little better.

Bullseye, Green Goblin, and Venom kill a bunch of people, they're given a cushy government job.

Bullseye and Osborn are both pretty evil guys from what I've seen.

Mac Gargan as Venom is a little different. I might be biased because the very first story featuring Gargan I ever read was in Spectacular Spider-Man, shortly before the Clone Saga began. Gargan was trying to give up being the Scorpion and was about to go straight.

What ended up happening was that he bumped into Spidey at a time when Spidey was semi-insane and full of rage and wanted an outlet for that rage. Gargan was out of costume and told Spidey he didn't want to fight him, that he was done being the Scorpion, that he just wanted to be left alone. This pissed Peter off and he began beating on Gargan anyway.

Gargan didn't even try to fight back, and by the time Peter was stopped he was bruised and swollen and limping away in terror.

So I felt sorry for the guy then, and I've wondered ever since whether his life would have turned out differently if Spider-Man hadn't given him such a savage beating.

I don't read Ellis' Thunderbolts so I haven't seen this for myself, but I recall reading that the symbiote has screwed Gargan up, that he's eaten human flesh while under its influence and then had a "oh my god what have I DONE?!!!" kind of reaction afterwards when he wasn't under its influence.

As for Eddie Brock, he's not entirely bad. Usually he's killed bad guys and he's done it pretty quickly instead of making them suffer. Then again, maybe he's routinely tortured people and I just haven't got the stories in which it's happened.

There's one time I know of where he did make his victims suffer, in the first issue of the Venom: Sinner Takes All limited serires. He dragged two guys down a subway tunnel into the dark and we could only guess what he was doing to them by the sound effects and their screams on the page.

Ordinarily I'd say this was going too far.

But he was doing this to them because they found him sleeping on the subway and decided--for fun--to douse him in lighter fluid and throw a match on him, thinking he was just some bum. Plus, their dialogue up to that point indicated that this was something they'd done before, to other people.

[Alan2099]

... I suppose it's not fair to say WWH was the Hulk's moral compass straying, he's never really had it so much as some characters.
I'd say though the majority of his career, Hulk's had a childlike sense of right and wrong, and children can throw quite a tantrum when they feel like they're not being treated fairly.

[CyberHubbs]

No! No no no no no no no! I read through 3 pages of this thread and it was SO close to not just being another Civil War-esque argument (aside from Jackolover's bizarre assertion that Iron Man's a jerk for hitting someone who smashes him in the face in a truce two minutes earlier and for being suspicious of the Skrull Queen. I mean, of all the shady things he did, THOSE ones are picked?) and it cannot be derailed now!

So in an effort to willfully ignore that....

... I suppose it's not fair to say WWH was the Hulk's moral compass straying, he's never really had it so much as some characters.

Have the FF ever had their moral compasses SERIOUSLY wander? I'm talking big time, not just Johnny letting a bank robber go and sleeping with him. (That's pretty standard Johnny fare.) In Authoritive Action, Reed was a total dick to the others but that was just so he could go sacrifice himself. I suppose there's something kind of warped about driving your family away to trap your arch-foe in an inescapable dimension with you for eternity.

Civil War is in ur compooter, hackin ur threads.

[Arrogantcur]

I'd say though the majority of his career, Hulk's had a childlike sense of right and wrong, and children can throw quite a tantrum when they feel like they're not being treated fairly.

There have also been a lot of different Hulks. There's been the green Hulk with Banner's mind, the stupid green Hulk, the grey "Mr. Fixit" Hulk, etc. So when we're talking about many different personalities over the history of the character it's difficult to say what "the Hulk" believes.

Not being totally familiar with all of the different Hulks, I need to ask whether the one we saw in WWH was a new variation or one that's appeared before.

[Will.S]

Just off the top of my head, I didn't care for Daredevil taking a shard of glass and carving a bullseye into .... Bullseye's forehead. Damn, I thought DD was better than THAT! That's like Punisher stuff there.
What issue did that happen in again?

I can only recall seeing Bullseye having the target carving on his forehead in Kevin Smith's The Target and going wtf, is this because of the movie?

[yadadaimhollaing]

Mac Gargan as Venom is a little different. I might be biased because the very first story featuring Gargan I ever read was in Spectacular Spider-Man, shortly before the Clone Saga began. Gargan was trying to give up being the Scorpion and was about to go straight.

What ended up happening was that he bumped into Spidey at a time when Spidey was semi-insane and full of rage and wanted an outlet for that rage. Gargan was out of costume and told Spidey he didn't want to fight him, that he was done being the Scorpion, that he just wanted to be left alone. This pissed Peter off and he began beating on Gargan anyway.

Gargan didn't even try to fight back, and by the time Peter was stopped he was bruised and swollen and limping away in terror.

So I felt sorry for the guy then, and I've wondered ever since whether his life would have turned out differently if Spider-Man hadn't given him such a savage beating.
.

peters been in bad moods before and beaten the crap out of crooks before that as well. peter was beating the crap out of some stupid crook in an issue of amazing spiderman i was reading the other day. a girl he rescued had to get his attention to stop beating the guy or he might kill him.

[B. Kuwanger]

What issue did that happen in again?

I can only recall seeing Bullseye having the target carving on his forehead in Kevin Smith's The Target and going wtf, is this because of the movie?
Ah, somewhere in "Hardcore." I would check around issues #44-47.

[Will.S]

Ah, somewhere in "Hardcore." I would check around issues #44-47.
Thanks.

Man I have got to re-read the Bendis run again, hopefully when the Omnibus comes out I don't have to keep digging out the books in my long box.

[Seo-optimizer]

if you would have read it , it is obvious you will know it!

[IronPalm]

Yellowjacket....pretty much his whole life.
'Nuff Said

[StoneGold]

The day Howard the Duck started wearing pants.

[yadadaimhollaing]

if you would have read it , it is obvious you will know it!

ive read when that happened and i forgot as well. i know i have a hard time remembering what happened 2 months ago let alone something ive read at least over a year ago.

[Wild Card13]

Getting back to the original prompt...

I'd have to say what Wolverine did to the man who killed his wife, Mariko Yashida. Kept him chained up, and every year on the anniversary of Mariko's death he would show up and cut off another body part, and he would refuse to kill the assassin. Cold stuff.

[yadadaimhollaing]

in case anybodys wondering what i was refering to of spiderman beating a guy up heres the page from amazing spiderman 154

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7700/amazing154mt4.jpg

[rZi]

Getting back to the original prompt...

I'd have to say what Wolverine did to the man who killed his wife, Mariko Yashida. Kept him chained up, and every year on the anniversary of Mariko's death he would show up and cut off another body part, and he would refuse to kill the assassin. Cold stuff.

Thats pretty impressive =D

[Omega Alpha]

I base my moral compass for Tony on how he treated people before CW, and after, he turned into Saddam Hussein. Before CW, he treated everyone fairly. How can he turn like he did?

I see you complaining about "The Crossing" (mind-control and whatever, and pre-CW), about Cap in Civil War #3 (Cap started) and about his treatment of Skrull Queen. So, I'm sticking with what I said before, if you don't mind.

[jackolover]

HAHAHA

Iron Man is a jerk for kicking the crap out of Cap after Cap sucker punched him? Gotta love the internet.

And let's not forget Rogers watching the Punisher kill two people and doing nothing about it.

Gee Iron Man suit protects him and he hears clanging sounds from Shield hitting him, versus broken bones and a jaw hanging off, you do the math.

Rogers did send Punisher packing after the killings, so he didn't do nothing.

[jackolover]

I see you complaining about "The Crossing" (mind-control and whatever, and pre-CW), about Cap in Civil War #3 (Cap started) and about his treatment of Skrull Queen. So, I'm sticking with what I said before, if you don't mind.

That's what the threads about - moral compass. I give examples and you call it whining? That's a moral judgment on your part.

Other people have said Tony Stark was selfish with his associates anyway, but I don't see that. He is just like a typical individual, but he never smacked his friends around and discarded them, like he did in CW. That was unconscionable.

[Arrogantcur]

in case anybodys wondering what i was refering to of spiderman beating a guy up heres the page from amazing spiderman 154

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7700/amazing154mt4.jpg

Yeah, I agree that my example is not the only time when Peter's lost control.

I felt that the timing of it was important, though.

Gargan was about to try and turn over a new leaf. That was the course he was on. Earlier in the story he's thinking about how being the Scorpion has caused him nothing but frustration, and how happy he is to be leaving it behind, etc.

He might have continued on that course if not for his run-in with Spidey, doing the same kind of thing the Sandman did.

But what would being beaten up by Spidey have done to him?

At first he'd probably feel terrified and shook up.

After the fear passed, maybe he'd feel humiliated.

Maybe that humiliation would turn into hatred for Spider-Man, who had injured him without provocation.

Maybe he would also be thinking that there was no point in trying to go straight if guys like Spidey were still going to think of him as a criminal and show him no mercy.

I've seen Gargan as a decent guy and that gives me faith that he can be one again if he tries, if he's given positive reinforcement the way the original Thunderbolts were when they were posing as heroes, and if he either finds a way to keep that symbiote in line or ditches it altogether.

[Slaymaster]

No one brought it up, so I'll say Colossus grabbing Riptide by the neck and then breaking it was 'losing his moral compass'. (I thought it was one of comicdoms greatest moments, art was great... and don't EVER mess with Kitty while the big guys around!:evilangry: )

*This was X-Men #211 or thereabouts, 'The Mutant Massacre', one of the best story arcs in comicdom as well.

[Arrogantcur]

No one brought it up, so I'll say Colossus grabbing Riptide by the neck and then breaking it was 'losing his moral compass'. (I thought it was one of comicdoms greatest moments, art was great... and don't EVER mess with Kitty while the big guys around!:evilangry: )

*This was X-Men #211 or thereabouts, 'The Mutant Massacre', one of the best story arcs in comicdom as well.

Yeah, I think Colossus'd had pretty much all he could take and lost all restraint.

He hadn't killed very often before that (I think the only other person he had killed to that point was Proteus).

But the Marauders had invaded the Morlock tunnels, were brutally slaughtering innocent mutants (including some he probably knew), and Riptide might've very well been the Marauder with the most blood on his hands. Plus he was trying to kill Colossus at the time.

What the Marauders were doing was horrible (hell, even after their reasons were retconned it's still horrible if only for how much fun they were having), and there was no question of their guilt. I freely admit that after seeing what they did to all of those Morlocks and how much glee Riptide was taking in it, I felt like cheering when Peter broke his neck. Riptide was a bastard and I'm sure all of his clones were bastards too.

[Arrogantcur]

Here's one I can't believe I forgot to mention earlier, since I've brought it up before. From the bio of USAgent here. (http://www.projectfanboy.com/vb/glossary.php?do=viewglossary&term=161)

During the public ceremony that announced the appointment of a new Captain America, Walker's former associates, two "Buckies" now calling themselves the Left-Winger and Right-Winger, publicly revealed the new Captain America's true identity.

As a result, the right-wing vigilantes called the Watchdogs, who sought vengeance on the new Captain America, murdered Walker's parents. Driven temporarily insane with rage, Walker brutally killed many of the Watchdogs in retaliation. Holding the Left-Winger and Right-Winger responsible for his parents' deaths, Walker captured his two former comrades...

The first link doesn't describe in sufficient detail what Walker did to them as his revenge, so I'll quote from this site now (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/l/leftwinger.htm)...

He tied them to an oil tank and handed Left-Winger his torch, challenging him to burn through the cables before Right-Winger's torch ignited the tank. They failed to do so and the oil tank exploded, leaving Left-Winger and Right-Winger near dead.

Whereas a normal, unprotected human being would have surely died from the explosion, it is believed that the Power Brokers strength augmentation process also increases the subject's resistance to injury.

Walker was later told the two took their own lives in the hospital, rather than live in agony. Walker investigated the claim by exhuming their bodies and discovered it was true.

To summarize: Walker set them on fire because they didn't keep his secret. I don't think they intended for Walker's parents to be killed, but even if they had it looks like Walker went easier on the Watchdogs--the ACTUAL killers--than on Right-Winger and Left-Winger.