WWC: The Wonder Woman Panel

[4PointOh]

I wish I was there!:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080629-Wonderwomanpanel.html

[K26dp]

I wish I was there!:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080629-Wonderwomanpanel.html

Nice that Wonder Woman got her own panel.

It's also nice to see that Rucka is still passionate about the character. I wish he was writing All-Star Wonder Woman.

[Chiroptera]

I'm still bitter about the editorial mandate to remove him... For me he was the first person to ever really get Wonder Woman, and even with Gail I don't feel like the characters quite hit the height of her Rucka glory. He made her so much more than she'd ever been before that, and I really worry she may never reclaim what she had with him after the way he was yanked off in the midst of stories that were still in the worksfor her at the time.

[KevinTBrown]

I wish I was there!:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080629-Wonderwomanpanel.html

I was.

It was a great panel. Informative, without revealing much of what's to come beyond Genocide and a few plot points. It was great to get each creator's take on Wonder Woman.

Oh, and the panel was standing room only. It was a smaller panel room, but enough to fit a good 100-150 people I would think.

[Alexx1]

It's nice that Donna Troy will be included at some point. Can't wait to see Aaron's interpertation of her. He draws some beautiful women.

[4PointOh]

There another, more comprehensive article at our very own CBR:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17018

Interesting excerpts:

-Creators that have a hard time writing her have a tendency to write her as a female Superman, Rucka said, but to write an effective Wonder Woman story you have to embrace the fact that Diana is inherently political.

-"She supercedes ego, which is unique in this industry," Rucka said. When he took over writing on Batman and Superman, Rucka said creators were actively hostile going as far as trying to screw up things for when he took over.

-Simone praised her rogues gallery, but stressed that Wonder Woman needed some new ones. She said she is creating Wonder Woman's "Doomsday," named Genocide, which she is excited about.

-The next fan asked Rucka about his "Sacrifice" storyline and if he thought that DC has ignored the ramifications of Diana killing Max Lord?

Rucka said that was his biggest heartbreak.

He animatedly talked about how he didn't think the story was given a proper resolution. He felt DC editorial used the one year later jump to sweep Diana's actions under the carpet, after they had been pushing for it to happen in the story. He thought the whole thing was a disservice to fans since there was a huge story to be told.

"Which Gail has no obligation to follow-up," he said, making it clear that it was an editorial decision and that people were told - no one touches the stuff that Rucka did.

"It bugs me," Rucka said. "She killed a guy and that's a huge deal."

Gail responded that she wasn't given any mandate by DC editoral to not work with any of that.

"They did it to the two before you," Rucka said.

[titanfan]

It's nice that Donna Troy will be included at some point. Can't wait to see Aaron's interpertation of her. He draws some beautiful women.

Me too. I can't wait to see Gail write Donna. She's definitely a character that I feel has been written poorly over the years.

[Lester C.]

1. As much as I loved Rucka's run, from the point of selling a product, dumping Rucka for Heinburg and the Dodsons made dollars and sense.
2. It's not much but DC did (kinda) examine the ramifications in the fourth Manhunter trade.

[Sabrinaset]

1. As much as I loved Rucka's run, from the point of selling a product, dumping Rucka for Heinburg and the Dodsons made dollars and sense.

Serious question for Lester here (believe it or not!) ... how did it make sense, considering there was a twelve-year gap between issues when Heinburg took over? :confused:

[Lester C.]

Serious question for Lester here (believe it or not!) ... how did it make sense, considering there was a twelve-year gap between issues when Heinburg took over? :confused:

I haven't read the Heinburg stuff because, other than the Rucka stuff, I've never collected Wonder Woman. And I only collected the Rucka stuff because Rucka was on it. To be honest I'm luke warm on the character and on her mythology and only collect her when she part of another book that I happen to be collecting.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

-Creators that have a hard time writing her have a tendency to write her as a female Superman, Rucka said, but to write an effective Wonder Woman story you have to embrace the fact that Diana is inherently political.

This I disagree with.

I certainly LIKE stories where Diana is political. I find it an interesting TAKE on the character..... But to say that she MUST be written that way to make a story effective? Sorry; no. I don't buy that. She had a 60 year-plus publishing history before Rucka came on the story. Some of her stories were great and sad many were stinkers, but to divide the good from the bad, along the lines of a political theme seems really quite shortsighted.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Serious question for Lester here (believe it or not!) ... how did it make sense, considering there was a twelve-year gap between issues when Heinburg took over? :confused:

Well, in fairness, the decision may have been made without knowing that it would be blue moons between issues.

[Lester C.]

Serious question for Lester here (believe it or not!) ... how did it make sense, considering there was a twelve-year gap between issues when Heinburg took over? :confused:

I can answer your question now. Chronology speaking Manhunter issues took place before Wonder Woman was relaunched. :cool:

[Major Comma]

the fact that Diana is inherently political is something thats thrust upon her
more then it is a reflection of her character .

[Sabrinaset]

Heinberg writing Wonder Woman ... if he was any slower, they'd put him on Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine!

[Pink Bat Maxine]

the fact that Diana is inherently political is something thats thrust upon her
more then it is a reflection of her character .

In which case, the word 'inherently' doesn't apply.

[Sabrinaset]

Well, she does wear star spangled panties!

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Well, she does wear star spangled panties!

Yeah, but so am I, and I'm not inherently political!

[Chiroptera]

Hmm.. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to see a complete break away from the Greek mythology aspect of her character. The more I read the more I get an inkling that's what they're moving toward.

If that's the case, I'll be rather sad, the mythology aspect of her character was always one of the coolest things about her to me. I liked seeing someone who had strong faith, but not focused on a mainstream religion.



I also gotta say this whole manazon thing and the idea of a "male wonder woman" just... It just sounds so CORNY! I loved the goofy silver age stories, but I really hope that's not what we're gonna get here. I just can't conceive a means of making this storyline any good.

If it's written to be comical I suppose it could be entertaining, but I'd be left wishing I could've had something with more substance.
If it's written to be serious I fear it'll come off seeming even more goofy and ridiculous.

*sigh* You know, I may just have to stop reading these sneak peek interviews and stuff; whenever I read them I end up paranoid of something stupid or horrible happening.
Of course, on the other hand, reading ahead saved me from having to purchase Final Crisis #1 and braced me for the bizarre circumstances of Batman RIP so maybe I need to keep reading sneak peeks.

I just don't know anymore!!! =(

[TheOceanic7th]

They didn't know he was gonna be so late with the issues. Didn't he write the last JLA arc before it ended and was relaunched as Justice League of America. I know he wrote JLA at one point.

He was a hot name at the time and getting A homosexual man to write a gay icon kinda makes since. That said while the beginning of his arc was well done the rest of it fizzled out dramaticly. Much like Joss Whedon's Astonishing.

[Magneto_X]

Hmm.. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to see a complete break away from the Greek mythology aspect of her character.

The more I read the more I get an inkling that's what they're moving toward.

I doubt this is permanent.

Marvel & DC always turn the clock back to the status quo eventually.

Even if Gail isn't the one to do it in her run.

I do enjoy where Gail is going with the character. New directions which seem incredibly logical with great execution.



If that's the case, I'll be rather sad, the mythology aspect of her character was always one of the coolest things about her to me. I liked seeing someone who had strong faith, but not focused on a mainstream religion.

It looks like Gail's setting up a confrontation between Diana and the Greek gods. Perhaps this will occur with the Rise of the Olympian storyline.

They definitely won't be happy when they discover Diana's worshiping a different god.

I'm looking forward to this.



I also gotta say this whole manazon thing and the idea of a "male wonder woman" just... It just sounds so CORNY! I loved the goofy silver age stories, but I really hope that's not what we're gonna get here. I just can't conceive a means of making this storyline any good.

Gail's one of the few writers I'd believe could do this well.

[Tyr]

It would have been nice to see this panel at the ECCC, oh well, guess we Northwesterners will have to settle for a whole day for Wonder Woman instead. :wink:

[scout1279]

Heinberg writing Wonder Woman ... if he was any slower, they'd put him on Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine!

I think he's still faster than Kevin Smith's Spider-Man/Black Cat run. And doesn't he still have an unfinished story for Marvel? I want to say that Joss Whedon's Fray and Runaways runs were slower too, but I'm not sure. But there you go. Two, possibly three, writers that are slower than Allan Heinberg.

As for why it may have made sense to replace Rucka with Heinberg and the Dodsons, a new creative team is more likely to pull in new readers. I know that personally, I am always hesitant to jump into the middle of a run. And Heinberg and Dodson are certainly a "hot" creative team, the kind that's going to get a lot of people talking.

Also, I know that it's not so popular with many WW fans, but Heinberg, for all his delays, writes really good comics. He is one of the few, if not the only, chronically delayed writers that I have always found to be worth the wait, and I felt the same about his WW comics.

I do think the fact that there was an editorial mandate for Heinberg and Piccoult to stay away from Rucka's stuff is interesting. I wonder why it wasn't given to Gail. Did they decide it wasn't a good idea, or did they decide that there had been enough time past to revisit it? It does suck for Rucka that he was pushed off the series when he still had stuff to say about the character though.

[Tyr]

I do think the fact that there was an editorial mandate for Heinberg and Piccoult to stay away from Rucka's stuff is interesting. I wonder why it wasn't given to Gail. Did they decide it wasn't a good idea, or did they decide that there had been enough time past to revisit it? It does suck for Rucka that he was pushed off the series when he still had stuff to say about the character though.

Yeah it does suck, not surprised by his reaction, he told me as much when I talked to him in Seattle. Don't get me wrong, I love what Gail is doing with Wonder Woman, and pratically stalked her for a whole day at the ECCC telling her so. But I do wish that Rucka had been able to tie up the lose ends, that and I miss Ferdinand, he rocked.

Speaking of Rucka I noticed he signed each of my Wonder Woman trades with his sig and a differently little sentence in them without me even asking him too...that Rucka, he rocks. :biggrin:

[4PointOh]

This I disagree with.

I certainly LIKE stories where Diana is political. I find it an interesting TAKE on the character..... But to say that she MUST be written that way to make a story effective? Sorry; no. I don't buy that. She had a 60 year-plus publishing history before Rucka came on the story. Some of her stories were great and sad many were stinkers, but to divide the good from the bad, along the lines of a political theme seems really quite shortsighted.

She's an Amazon from an island of warrior women who want men to behave like human beings and she was sent from that island as an emissary to spread the ideals of love, peace and harmony. And she does so while hiding in the US Military. That is most certainly inherently political.

But I think you misunderstand Greg's point. He's not saying that you can't write a Wonder Woman story unless it's political. He's saying the character HERSELF is inherently political and is written most effectively, in his opinion, when that's kept in mind. And that, quite simply, is a fact that her creator, with all of his flaws, gleefully acknowledged and intended.

You can even see it in Lynda Carter's portrayal. Shit, even when she's a drag queen's fashion model or a little girl's fantasy that, in itself, is political.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

She's an Amazon from an island of warrior women who want men to behave like human beings and she was sent from that island as an emissary to spread the ideals of love and peace. And she does so while hiding in the US Military. That is most certainly inherently political.

But if you read the Golden Age stories, you find that all of this is just the backdrop to the stories actually being told; the themes of the stories aren't about politics.... except insomuch as politics intersect with sociology and gender archetypes, which you can effectively argue can't be divorced from the above, I'll concede. But the main 'politics' of the Golden Age stories aren't about 'Wonder Woman teaching Man's World to live in peace'; they're about her aiding the Americans, because America's cause is considered to be just. Once again, that's political, but not in line with her use by contemporary writers including Rucka, and certainly it's not a deeply explored theme. Fascism represents the unjust control over others, and Wonder Woman, under Marston, is advocating submission to loving authority. Which, once again, I guess can be argued as being primarily political even though I see his concerns as being about the psychological good. At ant rate, it's not until later decades with more cynical views of the American Government becoming prevalent that she's seen as really being an ambassador from Paradise Island to the greater world. These themes really started with the Perez reboot; a good 40 plus years after the inception of the character. And if you look at the adventures she had post-Marston and pre-Perez..... there's occasional flirtings on the side of feminism, to be rebuked by other writers arguing against it, but most of what you find is fanciful adventures (which were delightful), or middle-of-the-road superhero fare (which often missed the mark.)

So okay, in the ways mentioned above, I can see an argument being made that THOSE things made her intrinsically political. However, if you break down Superman, you can come to the same conclusions about that character, and I think that misses the mark as well. I believe that's missing the forest for the trees. Marston tried to use her to expound new gender and psychological archetypes. Subsequent writers batted her hither and yon for decades after, and it's really only in the more modern incarnations that her role as ambassador have taken the fore.

[4PointOh]

Even if you argue that the peace and love stuff was just backdrop, you'd have to acknowledge that what was completely foregrounded was the reverse Cinderella story, where the princess actually saves and protects the knight. That, too, is political; it's a feminist tale.

And she did all that saving while getting tied up and tying up others in a rope that forces whomever is ensnared to obey her and tell the truth. Wonder Woman's political layers are simply too numerous to ignore--unless you're seeking to make her just another superhero in a star-spangled outfit (and, as someone else pointed out, the outfit itself is political); in other words, some writers write her as though she's a Wonder Woman simply because she has superpowers. But I, like Greg, think that "Wonder Woman" means so much more than that and wonder if the attempt to ignore her inherent politics serves the character.

I think the reason WONDER WOMAN #19 is one of my favorites from Gail's run is because of the scene with the extended hand. No other character in comics could pull that off effectively, not even Superman.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

unless you're seeking to make her just another superhero in a star-spangled outfit (and, as someone else pointed out, the outfit itself is political); in other words, she's Wonder Woman simply because she has superpowers. But I, like Greg, think she means much more than that.

C'mon. You know that's not what I'm saying, and it's kinda beneath you to imply that.

And actually...... Steve Trevor was more often a two-fisted partner than a helpless ingenue. If you want to find the feminist parable there, it's in her refusal to marry him and be Mrs. Trevor.

[4PointOh]

C'mon. You know that's not what I'm saying, and it's kinda beneath you to imply that.

And actually...... Steve Trevor was more often a two-fisted partner than a helpless ingenue. If you want to find the feminist parable there, it's in her refusal to marry him and be Mrs. Trevor.

Ooh, Pink I'm sorry! That was a collective "you're" not "you're" as in "Pink Bat." My bad. I wasn't clear.

And even when Steve was her sidekick as opposed to ingenue, she will STILL saving his butt.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Ooh, Pink I'm sorry! That was a collective "you're" not "you're" as in "Pink Bat." My bad. I wasn't clear.

And even when Steve was her sidekick as opposed to ingenue, she will STILL saving his butt.

Ah, gotcha, no worries.

Really, I think our only disagreement is that I think the psychological elements trump the political, and you seem (?) to see the reverse, anyway, which ain't all that big a difference in opinion to begin with. :wink:

[4PointOh]

Ah, gotcha, no worries.

Really, I think our only disagreement is that I think the psychological elements trump the political, and you seem (?) to see the reverse, anyway, which ain't all that big a difference in opinion to begin with. :wink:

You love her as much as I do. Which is really all that matters.

:biggrin:

[d newton]

The interview was good. The follow-up wasn't. :frown:

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Re: The Wonder villains. Yeah, they're a problem. A lot of them are redundant, many of them are wrecks continuity-wise, and they do tend to be easily forgotten.
And those are just the ones in continuity. (Out of continuity, same problems, plus most of them are kinda goofy.)

One big problem --And no, this has nothing to do with Gail-- is that often a writer will create a new villain as 'Wonder Woman's new arch-enemy.' That character will be run into the ground as long as that writer's on the title. Then the new writer comes in, that character's tossed, and we never see her again.

Genocide, 'Wonder Woman's Doomday', kinda makes me wince. Maybe it's the Image-esque name or my aversion to "Big tank that runs over people" villains, whom I find boring. But honestly, the character hasn't even appeared yet so I'm being ridiculous. We'll see what Gail comes up with.

[4PointOh]

Re: The Wonder villains. Yeah, they're a problem. A lot of them are redundant, many of them are wrecks continuity-wise, and they do tend to be easily forgotten.
And those are just the ones in continuity. (Out of continuity, same problems, plus most of them are kinda goofy.)

One big problem --And no, this has nothing to do with Gail-- is that often a writer will create a new villain as 'Wonder Woman's new arch-enemy.' That character will be run into the ground as long as that writer's on the title. Then the new writer comes in, that character's tossed, and we never see her again.

Genocide, 'Wonder Woman's Doomday', kinda makes me wince. Maybe it's the Image-esque name or my aversion to "Big tank that runs over people" villains, whom I find boring. But honestly, the character hasn't even appeared yet so I'm being ridiculous. We'll see what Gail comes up with.

Some of Wonder Woman's foes ARE goofy, but most of them have tremendous potential:

The Mask, Silver Swan, Osira, Angle Man, Gundra the Valkyrie, Minister Blizzard are just a few who I think are eligible for an awesome makeover.

And hoenstly, I think Circe, Cheetah, Dr. Posion and Dr. Psycho are perfect the way that they are.

[Tyr]

Some of Wonder Woman's foes ARE goofy, but most of them have tremendous potential:

The Mask, Silver Swan, Osira, Angle Man, Gundra the Valkyrie, Minister Blizzard are just a few who I think are eligible for an awesome makeover.

And hoenstly, I think Circe, Cheetah, Dr. Posion and Dr. Psycho are perfect the way that they are.

Now I am intrigued, tell me more of this said villainous valkyrie, and Gail tell me we shall see this said valkyrie make an appearance.

[4PointOh]

Gundra the Vaklyrie is the champion of the Norse pantheon:

http://a312.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_cd1532aa9facf4067db86373bb0994df.jpg

http://a222.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/10/l_11633a0451e299fa14144de06f2f8bcd.jpg

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Gundra is the leader of a troop of Valkyrie warriors inadvertantly willed into existence by the Nazis. They flew around on winged horses abducting people to Valhalla, whether they wanted to go or not. Appeared a couple of times in the 40's WONDER WOMAN stories.

She was later reinvented as Gudra, Valkyrie Nazi warrior with the touch of death, and a member of Axis Amerika by Roy Thomas in YOUNG ALL-STARS.

Aside from a brief appearence as one of crowd of villains in a Heinberg story, she hasn't been re-established as a Wonder-villain, though I like to think she at least fought Hippolyta back in World War Two. Whether Gail uses her or not is up to Gail. As far as I know, she hasn't said anything about doing so, so I doubt it's in her immediate plans.

[Tyr]

Gundra the Vaklyrie is the champion of the Norse pantheon:

http://a312.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_cd1532aa9facf4067db86373bb0994df.jpg

http://a222.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/10/l_11633a0451e299fa14144de06f2f8bcd.jpg


Gundra is the leader of a troop of Valkyrie warriors inadvertantly willed into existence by the Nazis. They flew around on winged horses abducting people to Valhalla, whether they wanted to go or not. Appeared a couple of times in the 40's WONDER WOMAN stories.

She was later reinvented as Gudra, Valkyrie Nazi warrior with the touch of death, and a member of Axis Amerika by Roy Thomas in YOUNG ALL-STARS.

Aside from a brief appearence as one of crowd of villains in a Heinberg story, she hasn't been re-established as a Wonder-villain, though I like to think she at least fought Hippolyta back in World War Two. Whether Gail uses her or not is up to Gail. As far as I know, she hasn't said anything about doing so, so I doubt it's in her immediate plans.

Interesting....maybe she could be reinvented as Norse Valkyrie minus the Nazi, we could have a greek vs norse culture clash oppertunity. Maybe instead of a bitter enemy Gail could reinvent her as a sometimes friend sometimes foe of Diana, like how Lady Shiva is a sometimes friend sometimes foe of Black Canary.