Viewing

[Mr. Palmer]

I've often noticed that the Superman forum lacks in viewing. Aside from the imprint forum (which averages 6 users), Supes is the lowest in this category.

Batman usually has over 10 visitors, while the main DCU forum and FC are bogged down with constant viewings.

I wonder why Supes is trailing them? Is there that little to talk about concerning the Man of Steel?

[DonC]

I'm viewing this thread right now.

[Mr. Palmer]

HA!

I made this thread when my meds were initially kicking, so I have an excuse for such a lame idea, I tell ya! :biggrin:

[JCAll]

It's been about forever since Superman has had as many fans as Batman.
Damned if I can explain it.

[Mon-el]

I've often noticed that the Superman forum lacks in viewing. Aside from the imprint forum (which averages 6 users), Supes is the lowest in this category.

Batman usually has over 10 visitors, while the main DCU forum and FC are bogged down with constant viewings.

I wonder why Supes is trailing them? Is there that little to talk about concerning the Man of Steel?

I think (now mind you, it's a catastrophe when I do that) that as bad as I hate to say it Superman isn't relatable to this current generation that's reading comics.

Now I have read Superman Forums for years, and I always gritted my teeth(maybe even chipped a tooth once or twice in doing so) when someone came in said that Superman wasn't relatable. I really disagreed with them I usually just brushed it off to them being impetuous and them not knowing any better.

Superman really shouldn't be relatable. He's freakin Superman. All you have to do to relate to Superman is to believe. You have to have an imagination to read about Superman. I think that what the heart of problem with today's Superman that many readers are so bogged down with realism in the comics that it has carried over that you cannot believe about a man that can fly.

How often have we seen the phrases like these:

Superman is too nice of a "Boy Scout" that a poster can't relate. (somehow being Nice all the time is a concept that has left today's society.) I want to be Evil! being nice is for wimps.

I hate Superman's outifit because he wears underwear on the outside.(Nevermind the fact that he can shoot laser beams out of his eyes, instantly freeze stuff with his breath, yadda, yadda, yadda......nope its those dam underwear.)

I dislike Krypto because he's a dog with super powers.( this is one is my personal favorites because If you do not like Krypto then you really shouldn't be reading comics in the first place.)

I can list references I have seen a mile long that I have seen in this very Superman forum.

I also think that many readers don't go out in search of older material from when they came onto the comic scene. How often do you see a 20's something go read Superman comics Pre COIE. The exceptions are very rare, and thats not even considering if a Teenager goes out and does it. If a poster talks about Superman pre-COIE it has greater weight in my eyes.

Most of the past generation of 20's somethings have come from the Bryne generation and they are just now getting a taste of having that Superman era being dissected into something that isn't necessarily theirs anymore.

Superdickery.com is also to blame......as funny as it is to the newer generation I think many dismiss it as it being a great laughable site(hey I can't blame them it's for laughing and laughing is perfectly fine outlet), but doing it for too long somehow makes the character himself just as laughable. Many don't understand the time and concept in which it was wrote.

Probably one of the best Superman threads on CBR(In My Opinion) is not even in the Superman forum its in the Classic Comics forum.Who is your Superman (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=225353)
Personally these are my own flaws about Superman.

I can't really relate to the Bryne generation of readers of the comics. Its a big flaw of mine, but everytime I see how wonderful the triangle era was, or how great the 90's Superman was, I usually dismiss it immediately. Now not that those comics of that period wasn't great but they are really dated now. That Superman is long gone in my eyes.

If I see a thread about religious aspects to Christianity or other allegories. I really dislike talking about religious themes and in comparison I just really don't like equating the two together. The same way with Politics. Whoever came up with the idea of bringing Politics Superman Red and Blue into the the DCU must be the same guy that thought Countdown Arena must have been a great idea.

Actually I tend to shy away from the Movies(especially that Uber Superman movie news thread after last weeks postings), TV shows, Cartoons threads in the Superman forum too. I really don't know why. I have everything related to Superman in dvd form, and some that hasn't even been processed yet. I have seen these episodes time and time again. Here's an instance that I can bring up that Dc doesn't even know about. They made a mistake in the The New Adventures of Superman cartoon Dvd.....They had cut out all the Superboy Adventures right. They are still listed in the credits after the end of the show. Well towards the end of the show whomever made the dvd actually left one of the Superboy (when they cut out the rest of the excerpts)excerpts from it towards the end of the first dvd(second to last episode on the dvd). Funny I haven't seen the very first thread about that Series on the Superman forums. The Fleischer cartoons pop up a time or two a year.

I personally tend to gravitate to the older reader(and this is my flaw). For one instance I came into first starting reading when Superman seen late in the bronze age of the character, but in all instances I instantly (thanks to my big brother and his collection) fell in love with the Silver Age Superman and mainly the Silver Age Superboy.

I tend to respond/reply to just the single issues of the comics. Most collections of Superman are in trade nowadays. I think almost all elseworlds and collections are avaliable to trade, and that market is pretty much what reads the comics in todays society.

Edit: Also I tried to talk about Supergirl a few times in the past few years on the Superman forum. Everytime I did it was in utter failure. I will not even attempt to respond to a Supergirl thread. It's completely useless.

[Mr. Palmer]

Wow... I never thought my goofy little thread would attract such a fanastic post.

That was a great read!

[Damiean Dark]

Superman ISNT relatable anymore imo he is an icon and will always probably be the most recognised hero in comics but the time of the square jawed infallible american hero who reads completely in black and white is gone. Captain America was like Superman the early days he read all things in black and white was strckly by the book ect but Marvel where mart to make him more jaded as time progressed thogh he always loves america he started to distrust in part what they where capable of doing to achieve thier aims cultivating in the Civil War storyline and subsequent death which is still imo the worst mistake ever in comics.

Supermans power is also a factor fans of his may hate this argument but if a hero is virtually indestructible and can do almost anything how long does it take for him to become uninteresting as he beats someone like darksied into submission for the tenth time? I will always prefer a hero who can come to harm saving someone from a burning building then someone who can only be made slightly uncompftable by blows from the mightyist of cosmic villains great writing can overcome this but we dot have the luxury of great writing all the time.

[JCAll]

That's the thing I don't get. Superman is somehow unrelatable because he's a decent person?

[Mon-el]

Wow... I never thought my goofy little thread would attract such a fanastic post.

That was a great read!

Thank you Mr. Palmer.

Superman ISNT relatable anymore imo he is an icon and will always probably be the most recognised hero in comics but the time of the square jawed infallible american hero who reads completely in black and white is gone. Captain America was like Superman the early days he read all things in black and white was strckly by the book ect but Marvel where mart to make him more jaded as time progressed thogh he always loves america he started to distrust in part what they where capable of doing to achieve thier aims cultivating in the Civil War storyline and subsequent death which is still imo the worst mistake ever in comics.

Supermans power is also a factor fans of his may hate this argument but if a hero is virtually indestructible and can do almost anything how long does it take for him to become uninteresting as he beats someone like darksied into submission for the tenth time? I will always prefer a hero who can come to harm saving someone from a burning building then someone who can only be made slightly uncompftable by blows from the mightyist of cosmic villains great writing can overcome this but we dot have the luxury of great writing all the time.

Damiean Dark....props to you....but to further illustrate my point.

Why should Superman be relatable in the first place?

I mean it's not often that we have a strange visitor on the Planet Earth that can have incredible powers: like faster than a speeding bullet(or in todays time faster than cable connection, More powerful than a locomotive(or powerful than a missle.)

Most of the very things that you stated in your very post, the reader will have suspend his disbelief and use his imagination at his fullest.

Why is it that hard for today's readers to actually do that anymore?

That's the thing I don't get. Superman is somehow unrelatable because he's a decent person?

I don't get it either JCAll.

[DonEMC]

Why is Superman so hard to relate to?
Well, for one thing, the simple Boy Scout routine was made for a different time with a different set of sensibilities. Look at TV... shows that I grew up watching, like Gilligan's Island, Dobey Gillis, I Married Joan and others aren't enjoyed by today's crowd like they were mine. Different times and a different world.
Superman's story is hard to write. They married him and took away a lot of the sex appeal of the character, which took some of the soap opera away and made Superman and Lois Lane seem like a mom and pop instead of the cool, young singles flirting with love. Superman is also unbeatable, virtually, which makes it hard for people to get wrapped up in a storyline where they worry he MIGHT get hurt or killed. People have become apathetic to a character who can't get hurt or killed. Another big problem for Big Blue is that there really aren't any challenges for him. Even Darkseid, the baddest of the bad, has been beaten like a drum by Superman ... over and over and over...
Don

[Slaughter]

I'm a new fan, since 2003. I'm a more of a Byrne Superman reader, although I respect the whole Golden/Silver Age Heritage thing. Byrne's still the true origin, though.

I dislike Krypto because he's a dog with super powers.( this is one is my personal favorites because If you do not like Krypto then you really shouldn't be reading comics in the first place.)

Well, I dislike Krypto, because I've never found a reason for that dog to exist.

And Superman is a great character when in the hands of good writers: Byrne in the old times, Jurgens, Johns, Rucka, Busiek... unfortunately, I think it's the whole gritty'n grim feel of the 90s that kinda weakened Supes. Maybe because he was one of the only heroes who never went into the whole gritty'n grim wave of the 90s, unlike other heroes which embraced it. That, and the fact that after the 90s, the comic book market declined too much, so there aren't too many comic fans around.

[CBikle]

I've often noticed that the Superman forum lacks in viewing. Aside from the imprint forum (which averages 6 users), Supes is the lowest in this category.

Batman usually has over 10 visitors


Most of Batman's supporting cast have been or are troubled, crime-fighting superheroes (Tim Drake, Hush, Jason Todd, Azrael, Cassandra Cain, Spoiler, Huntress, Catwoman, Damian and maybe Batwoman) and a few who are less troubled (Nightwing, Oracle), but there always seems to be something going on with Batman's "high-maintenance" sidekicks. In many ways, it kind of resembles the X-Men framework of soap-opera angst nonsense.

Also, Batman had the momentum of the '89 movie, Frank Miller's Dark Knight and Alan Moore's Killing Joke which pushed his popularity into the 90's where the
Bat-event comics (Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc.) kept the momentum going.

Most of Superman's support cast are the same classic Daily Planet characters or dumb 90's characters, many of whom are no longer in continuity or if they are, no one cares.

Both Superman and Batman had some promising, but often poorly-written crossover events, but the Batman ones don't seem to have as bad an aftertaste as the Superman ones (Death Of Superman, Reign Of The Supermen, etc).

[JCAll]

Why is Superman so hard to relate to?
Well, for one thing, the simple Boy Scout routine was made for a different time with a different set of sensibilities. Look at TV... shows that I grew up watching, like Gilligan's Island, Dobey Gillis, I Married Joan and others aren't enjoyed by today's crowd like they were mine. Different times and a different world.
Superman's story is hard to write. They married him and took away a lot of the sex appeal of the character, which took some of the soap opera away and made Superman and Lois Lane seem like a mom and pop instead of the cool, young singles flirting with love. Superman is also unbeatable, virtually, which makes it hard for people to get wrapped up in a storyline where they worry he MIGHT get hurt or killed. People have become apathetic to a character who can't get hurt or killed. Another big problem for Big Blue is that there really aren't any challenges for him. Even Darkseid, the baddest of the bad, has been beaten like a drum by Superman ... over and over and over...
Don

There are people that don't love Gilligan's Island!? :eek:
:tongue:

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to your complaints. You say Superman in invincible and never gets hurt, yet I can count on one hand the time he HASN'T been beaten to a pulp before winning, especially since every Earth shattering disaster lands straight on his doorstep. You say the marriage weakened his appeal, but you also admit he was a boyscout to begin with and thus shouldn't have HAD sex appeal, to anyone but Lois at least. Darkseid is a joke, we've all be laughing at Darkseid for a decade. Frickin' Batman beat up Darkseid. STAIRS beat up Darkseid.

No matter how often I hear the same arguments I just can't wrap my mind around them. It's always the same, and I read enough Superman to know it's not true. Just like the people that read enough Batman can say that he's not just about mindless shock value and constantly trying to out grim and gritty itself, but has some depth behind it too.

But tastes have shifted. People just prefer the grim and gritty "realistic" feel to comics, that never seems to be able to stick to Superman. Which isn't so bad, since Superman is supposed to be about bizarre fantastical stories that should be kept as far away from realism as humanly possible, though are still anchored to real life by better writers.

[Mon-el]

Why is Superman so hard to relate to?
Well, for one thing, the simple Boy Scout routine was made for a different time with a different set of sensibilities. Look at TV... shows that I grew up watching, like Gilligan's Island, Dobey Gillis, I Married Joan and others aren't enjoyed by today's crowd like they were mine. Different times and a different world.

I can see that, but at what point did the readers lose much of their imagination in the process when it came to Superman?

I believe that their never will be long runs like Superman Family, Superman's girl friend Lois Lane, Superman's pal Jimmy Olson, anymore.

I don't think that this society can accept those titles in the marketplace of today.


Superman's story is hard to write. They married him and took away a lot of the sex appeal of the character, which took some of the soap opera away and made Superman and Lois Lane seem like a mom and pop instead of the cool, young singles flirting with love.

This I don't agree with so much. I think if it's one person that deserves a happy marriage in today's society it's at least Superman. Sorry, I never seen much of a sex appeal about Superman, soap opera moments yes though. In today's society a divorce is a common occurance. Personnally I believe if actually desolved the wedding at some point, it would be somehow just seen to me as a gimmick.

Now I hate to do this, but if we are comparing Brand New Day (I haven't read it yet, but I know the ending), I see the only way out of the marriage is to actually kill Lois at some point, or make an excuse such as she was a robot when they got married, Neron or the Devil change history, or the thousand reasons that could be worked to actually destroy the wedding. I hope I never live to see that day though.


Superman is also unbeatable, virtually, which makes it hard for people to get wrapped up in a storyline where they worry he MIGHT get hurt or killed. People have become apathetic to a character who can't get hurt or killed. Another big problem for Big Blue is that there really aren't any challenges for him. Even Darkseid, the baddest of the bad, has been beaten like a drum by Superman ... over and over and over...
Don

It's funny that in all my years of reading Superman I don't believe I was worried about the defeat or worried about Superman. Even in the Death of Superman I wasn't. I don't know how to react to the statement people actually want to hurt a character, I always seen the best scenerio in hurting Superman wouldn't be through a punching contest, but emotionally.

[Mon-el]

I'm a new fan, since 2003. I'm a more of a Byrne Superman reader, although I respect the whole Golden/Silver Age Heritage thing. Byrne's still the true origin, though.

First off Excellent that you responded Slaughter.

You came from a time from when Birthright was just being instigated, but you still fall back on the previous times. Interesting.

Though I will disagree about your comment though about Byrne being the true origin, It's not for me, it was good for it's time, but I have hated the reprecussions that has followed.



Well, I dislike Krypto, because I've never found a reason for that dog to exist.

Tell me something.....Why does Krypto even need a reason to exist?

He's a dog, he has super powers, why does he need a reason to simply exist?

See that's the main problem I have with the Byrne generation. They need reasoning to explain different attributes.

Example: Superman's costume isn't indestructible anymore, though with Superman's Aura around his body means it doesn't cause to tear or rip usually.

I don't need scientific mumbo jumbo to explain Superman and his supporting cast to be grounded in reality.

Unfortunately, I think it's the whole gritty'n grim feel of the 90s that kinda weakened Supes. Maybe because he was one of the only heroes who never went into the whole gritty'n grim wave of the 90s, unlike other heroes which embraced it. That, and the fact that after the 90s, the comic book market declined too much, so there aren't too many comic fans around.

I think explaining how everything works and trying so hard to be damn relatable to viewers hurt Superman, not to mention the spectator market when it came to the Death of Superman.

[DonEMC]

There are people that don't love Gilligan's Island!? :eek:
:tongue:

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to your complaints. You say Superman in invincible and never gets hurt, yet I can count on one hand the time he HASN'T been beaten to a pulp before winning, especially since every Earth shattering disaster lands straight on his doorstep. You say the marriage weakened his appeal, but you also admit he was a boyscout to begin with and thus shouldn't have HAD sex appeal, to anyone but Lois at least. Darkseid is a joke, we've all be laughing at Darkseid for a decade. Frickin' Batman beat up Darkseid. STAIRS beat up Darkseid.

No matter how often I hear the same arguments I just can't wrap my mind around them. It's always the same, and I read enough Superman to know it's not true. Just like the people that read enough Batman can say that he's not just about mindless shock value and constantly trying to out grim and gritty itself, but has some depth behind it too.

But tastes have shifted. People just prefer the grim and gritty "realistic" feel to comics, that never seems to be able to stick to Superman. Which isn't so bad, since Superman is supposed to be about bizarre fantastical stories that should be kept as far away from realism as humanly possible, though are still anchored to real life by better writers.

I'm making points about WHY Superman is so unrelatable to today's audience.
Comics are soap operas, plain and simple. Each month we come back to get out next installment, or fix, and sex appeal is a big part of that pathos, or hook, to get you coming back.
I grew up reading the old Curt Swan Superman and loved the fact that him and Lois were always flirting around, because it always gave me hope that, in the next episode, they'd get together.
It's the same thing with a TV sitcom, like, say, The Office, where people are rooting for Jim and Pam to be together, but we all know they can't really stay together because that would get boring.
Same thing with Superman and Lois Lane. To me, the characters are at a point where it's understood that they're married and never going to be separated, so it becomes boring.
To many young readers, a book like Robin is more easily relatable than Superman because you have his love interests and the threat of danger to him.
In Superman, neither of those REALLY exists. He can't go to another planet and have a love affair with a pink or yellow alien woman like in many of the old Gil Kane-drawn stories, because he has a wife at home and how would it look for Superman to be stepping out on the missus? That's not very Superman-like, now, is it?
And your statement that Darkseid is a joke is ... well, I'm assuming that you're JOKING, right? Because, of course, it is Darkseid who's behind a lot of what's going on in Final Crisis right now, so, obviously, he's not a joke, like, say, Prankster or countless others in the DCU that are never going to be a threat to the cosmos. C'mon, a joke? I think that's a statement made by someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Mr. Palmer]

Sorry, but I had a giggle at your "married Lois Lane as a robot" statement. Strangely, should the need ever occur, I could see that being pulled as a stunt.

Oh, do I hope we never see that day...

[JCAll]

I'm making points about WHY Superman is so unrelatable to today's audience.
Comics are soap operas, plain and simple. Each month we come back to get out next installment, or fix, and sex appeal is a big part of that pathos, or hook, to get you coming back.
I grew up reading the old Curt Swan Superman and loved the fact that him and Lois were always flirting around, because it always gave me hope that, in the next episode, they'd get together.
It's the same thing with a TV sitcom, like, say, The Office, where people are rooting for Jim and Pam to be together, but we all know they can't really stay together because that would get boring.
Same thing with Superman and Lois Lane. To me, the characters are at a point where it's understood that they're married and never going to be separated, so it becomes boring.
To many young readers, a book like Robin is more easily relatable than Superman because you have his love interests and the threat of danger to him.
In Superman, neither of those REALLY exists. He can't go to another planet and have a love affair with a pink or yellow alien woman like in many of the old Gil Kane-drawn stories, because he has a wife at home and how would it look for Superman to be stepping out on the missus? That's not very Superman-like, now, is it?
Personally, I watch the soaps for my soap opera fix. I read the comics for entirely different reasons.

But even taking that into account, you seem to prefer Superman stay stotic in some sort of time lock than actually *GASP* change. You say that Superman became stale after he got married, but the same arguement could be made that seeing him NOT marrying Lois for 60 years had gotten stale. I would disagree with that too, but the arguement could be made.

So Superman is married, and barring Mxy zapping it away it's going to be that way forever. But the universe is probably going to get rebooted some time in the next decade anyway, and then writers can play with a completely different Status Quo.

Until then, save the hot green alien women for Captain Kirk. Or Hal Jordan.
Not that I remember Superman EVER going after the hot alien chicks...

And stop saying that nobody can hurt Superman. It sounds dumb. Virtually, for example, the entire Kurt Buseik run on Superman has him bleeding out his bum. So go read it.

And your statement that Darkseid is a joke is ... well, I'm assuming that you're JOKING, right? Because, of course, it is Darkseid who's behind a lot of what's going on in Final Crisis right now, so, obviously, he's not a joke, like, say, Prankster or countless others in the DCU that are never going to be a threat to the cosmos. C'mon, a joke? I think that's a statement made by someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about.

Really? You're defending Darkseid? He finally gets one good story, which he has appeared in all of ONE scene of, and you're suddenly willing to overlook a decade of unreadable drek? Darkseid, from shortly after the first Crisis to shortly before the latest Crisis, was more of a running gag than a super-villain.

STAIRS!

[Beta Ray Bill]

That's the thing I don't get. Superman is somehow unrelatable because he's a decent person?You nailed it. I don't understand it though. Well, I do understand it but I guess it all just seems so silly to me. Comics fans are an odd bunch...

[Damiean Dark]

Not because he is decent the vast majority of heros are decent its just there is no other side to him imo all you get is the decent farm boy for the 60+ years of his existence he has gone through no really major changes in the characters personality he is frankly one dimensional imo.

[Mon-el]

Sorry, but I had a giggle at your "married Lois Lane as a robot" statement. Strangely, should the need ever occur, I could see that being pulled as a stunt.

Oh, do I hope we never see that day...


:biggrin:

Actually, what was running through my mind when I said that was an episode of "Lois and Clark" where Clark had married a Clone of Lois(I believe that ate frogs), so the marriage wasn't exactly correct until later.

[JCAll]

:biggrin:

Actually, what was running through my mind when I said that was an episode of "Lois and Clark" where Clark had married a Clone of Lois(I believe that ate frogs), so the marriage wasn't exactly correct until later.

Considering that the frog-eating clone story pretty much killed Lois and Clark, I don't think we'll be seeing the wedding fake-out again.

[Solaris01]

Ok, I'm practically a newbie in the comics, but I've always liked Superman because he is a nice and decent guy that always tries to do the right thing. And I relate to those types of values and virtues in people. Superman is someone I look up to and admire. He is my biggest fantasy. And like Mon el said, I guess I still have a sense of wonder and lots of imagination to be in awe at Superman. I think he rocks, as well as his iconic suit. And when written well, his stories are the best. I find lots of depth in the character; being the last of his kind, and even though he lives among us, he really isn't one of us. He will always be different. He is a man of two worlds. Also, no matter how powerful he is, he can't be in two places at the same time. He is the most powerful character, therefore he has the most responsibility. I just find the character fascinating. He is a god but he is also a man.

I also find it very sexy that he is married to Lois, and that he is faithful to her. And that can't be that easy, especially with people like Wonder Woman around.. lol.

I definitely don't relate to the dark and gritty 'heroes', like Batman or Wolverine, for instance. They are too cynical to my tastes. But I think they are alright, cool and interesting in their own right, but I don't buy their comics or spend my $ in them in any way other than watching their movies.

[Solaris01]

double post

[Mon-el]

I guess I still have a sense of wonder and lots of imagination to be in awe at Superman.

Whatever you do Solaris01 in your life, Please, Please never lose that imagination, it's such a terrible thing to waste.

I found great joy from reading your post, many thanks to you.

Maybe their is hope, just yet.

[Mon-el]

Not because he is decent the vast majority of heros are decent its just there is no other side to him imo all you get is the decent farm boy for the 60+ years of his existence he has gone through no really major changes in the characters personality he is frankly one dimensional imo.

Sorry about this I skipped over this yesterday....I wanted to reply and everytime I did the server was down, so this is the short gist of it.

Ya know keeping him all wholesome and honest and true and all those things....one would think that he's been written "in character" all those years.

And I have to ask just how many of those 70 years have you actually read?

Not to discredit your opinion, but I have seen Superman written with major changes in personality and more than one dimensional than what you have stated.

[Solaris01]

Whatever you do Solaris01 in your life, Please, Please never lose that imagination, it's such a terrible thing to waste.

I found great joy from reading your post, many thanks to you.

Maybe their is hope, just yet.

My pleasure. I was just being honest.

[Chino]

People think Superman is lame because DC lets that happen. Read Johns action comics and tell me he isn't the greatest.

I don't feel the need to relate to Superman anymore than I do Batman or Daredevil or whoever. Superman is still unique IMO. He stands out as the big blue boyscout while everyone else is written in shades of gray.

[Supermancho]

That's the thing I don't get. Superman is somehow unrelatable because he's a decent person?

And that's exactly the reason I like Superman: because he is a decent person.:smile:

[Mr. Palmer]

Currently the FC forum only has 11 viewers, while Supes has 13!

Whee! A small victory for the Man of Steel! :biggrin:

[Supermancho]

Right now:
Supeman 11
Batman 10
Final Crisis 5

http://www.yelims.com/IPB/Invision-Board-France-234.gif

[Solaris01]

^^Funny!

I found this yesterday and wanted to share it here with you guys. I found it really inspiring, especially coming from a 27 year old male. I wish more people thought the way he does; this would be a better world, imo.

http://musicmanmihir.blogspot.com/2006/10/superman.html

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It's funny that in all my years of reading Superman I don't believe I was worried about the defeat or worried about Superman. Even in the Death of Superman I wasn't. I don't know how to react to the statement people actually want to hurt a character, I always seen the best scenerio in hurting Superman wouldn't be through a punching contest, but emotionally.

Indeed. What's the deal with wanting to see Superman "in danger" or "with the possibility of him being defeated"?

Seriously, I mean, what the hell?!?!?

This is SUPERMAN, for the love of Rao. It's not about him being in danger, it's about US being in AWE at his mere presence, for not only he's EXACTLY that: An uber-powerful demi-god, but he is the world's GREATEST Superhero. The one whose symbol has been used in REAL LIFE to inspire hope in people all around the world.

Superman is NOT about being "realistic", for Pete's sake. It's about a guy that can freaking fly. Just by going that way, you have got to have your suspension of disbelief engines at maximum capacity. So no, it's not about being realistic, but JUST THE EXACT OPPOSITE. It's about having amazing adventures from the deepest places under the sea to the farthest reaches of space. It's about seeing Superman doing things that only he can do. Yes, it's about IMAGINATION, as Solaris and you have said.

And not only that, but it should call everyone's attention that a demi-god has chosen to protect us instead of ruling with an iron fist (or in this case steel), NOT because he's ridden by guilt or revenge, but because it's the right thing to do.

So, my friends, the only thing we all have to do is to believe. Look up to the skies, for he will be there, watching over us.


SUPERMAN FOREVER!!!!!!

[Mon-el]

^^Funny!

I found this yesterday and wanted to share it here with you guys. I found it really inspiring, especially coming from a 27 year old male. I wish more people thought the way he does; this would be a better world, imo.

http://musicmanmihir.blogspot.com/2006/10/superman.html

I did in fact read it. It was enjoyable Solaris01. Thank you.

and I also would like to thank 666 for his post.

[Tetsuo_man]

Nevermind the fact that he can shoot laser I also think that many readers don't go out in search of older material from when they came onto the comic scene. How often do you see a 20's something go read Superman comics Pre COIE..

WEll i do and so do my friend ian and we'r both in are twenties. We love the superman showcase stuff, particually the otto binder stories. ON top of that we both really love the art of Curt Swan. We also love elliot s! maggins stuff but then again i would bet we are the exception not the rule.

It also seems those who argue Superman isn't relatable are the same people who seem to want to return supes back to Byrne-man supes which honestly was hit or miss (like most of Byrne's writting).

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I did in fact read it. It was enjoyable Solaris01. Thank you.

and I also would like to thank 666 for his post.

You're always welcome.

[Supermancho]

It was hard to find this thread. Since TDK debut, the Batman Forum got bigger, almost four times more than Superman in visitors.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Sad, isn't it?

[Mat001]

I can see that, but at what point did the readers lose much of their imagination in the process when it came to Superman?

When the people began to see the world wasn't black and white, which started in the 70's and got worse in the 90's. When everyone began to use the works of Frank Miller, Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman during the 80's as an example of how to tell stories. When people saw that grim n gritty is how the world really is, that's when people lost their imagination and lost faith in Superman. In other words, the world grew up. The world became a cynical place and Superman, who is about hope, is seen as the problem and not the solution like Batman or Wolverine. When people started perfering "The Empire Strikes Back" over "Return Of The Jedi" or even "A New Hope". Because the story ended on a series of down notes and life is like a series of down notes. Where the good guy doesn't always win because the good guy is also the bad guy.

In other words, there is truth about the change in society between 1938 and 2008. Before you salute the flag by putting your hand across your heart. Nowadays, you flip the bird at the flag.

[Xybernauts]

And that's exactly the reason I like Superman: because he is a decent person.:smile:

It was hard to find this thread. Since TDK debut, the Batman Forum got bigger, almost four times more than Superman in visitors.

I thought the reason that Superman isn't relate-ability was obvious? It's bad PR plain and simple. Since the 1990's Batman has had about 6 movies. Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, Batman Begins, and TDK. Of those movies 4 of them were received well by the public. Superman has had only one movie, Superman Returns, and two shows Lois & Clark, and Smallville. SR, Lois & Clark, and Smallville are all in general considered lackluster. As a consequence the failure of the movies and shows have reflected badly on the comics book version of the character. Bad PR. People can't relate to the character cause no one has a vision of the character that is as perfect as the one presented to us in Superman '78. With Batman, every couple of years, people are re-inspired. DC constantly is revitalizing Batman with new movies. When DC creates a movie as good as TDK for Superman and stop paying attention to Batman you'll see Superman's relate-ability rise and Batman's relate-ability fall.

[Solaris01]

I did in fact read it. It was enjoyable Solaris01. Thank you.

and I also would like to thank 666 for his post.

Your welcome!

And yeah, great post, 666Master! Supes forever! :smile:

[666MasterOfPuppets]

You're very welcome, Solaris01. :smile:

[Sanlear]

I must be strange. Lately I've found Superman to be a far more interesting character than Batman.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Welcome to the club, then. :smile:

[Sanlear]

Welcome to the club, then. :smile: Thanks. :)

[bw38]

It's funny that in all my years of reading Superman I don't believe I was worried about the defeat or worried about Superman. Even in the Death of Superman I wasn't. I don't know how to react to the statement people actually want to hurt a character, I always seen the best scenerio in hurting Superman wouldn't be through a punching contest, but emotionally.
This remark caught my eye. I can see why that would be the best way to attack him, and it would be awesome if that were the case. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I don't follow Superman like I do Batman, but has Superman ever lost anyone in his life due his crime-fighting? I ask this because I would think that's the best way you can hurt Superman emotionally speaking, at least I think so. I mean most superheroes lose something which causes them to become what they are (bruce wayne: his parents, peter parker: his uncle, kal-el: his planet), but that doesn't count as much I'd say. it would have to be something after the fact, like say Batman losing one of his sidekicks in battle or Spider-man losing Aunt May or MJ. I don't know what's in continuity with Superman, are the Kents still alive? i know in some versions his dad is dead, but the mom is alive.

I think it would make a great story if Superman lost someone close assuming they stay dead. And if you want to go even bigger, how crazy would it me if Superman lost Earth ( of course he wakes in the end to find out he was having a bad nightmare b/c destroying earth means killing every superhero on it and that just won't stick).

[Xero]

For your punishment, Indian Superman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Pjo0WjBcs&feature=related

[Supermancho]

For the first time in my eyes, since TDK premiere, Superman is winning right now 15-13 in visitors!

[666MasterOfPuppets]

For the first time in my eyes, since TDK premiere, Superman is winning right now 15-13 in visitors!

That´s right. We´re making progress.