WizardWorld Chicago: Yost on "Storm-Worlds Apart"

[CBR News]

Storm may currently a member of the X-Men and Queen of Wakanda, but that may change come October when "X-Men: Storm-Worlds Apart" begins. CBR News spoke with writer Christopher Yost about the mini-series.

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16991

[RafiShai]

Although she did have that garden in the attic of the old X-Mansion. Storm's a softie.

He even remembers her garden in the attic, where she would communicate with her plants!!! This is such a beautiful moment in life, to see a writer who actually remembers Ororo like a fan would.

IM NOT CRYING DAMNIT.

[Anna]

I'm glad to see that she'll have a reaction to the loss of her "child" Kitty other than that blank look in AXM. She should have been depicted mourning with the Astonishing team.

[CMBMOOL]

I can see this as a way for Storm to question her Husband over his history with the Avengers and compare that to her current situtation or ask Wolverine for some advice of how to multi-task. :tongue:

Also I can find some funny moments if Yost has Storm meeting the new students in Xaiver and for her to go back to the former X-men home in New York as a way to find some former connections. :frown:

To me Storm could have been a useful help to the X-men when M-day struck, still I can see it as while she confronts Cyclops over his recent decisions with the team, I can see Cyclops questioning her how would she handle the situtiation if she stayed with them. :redface:

I'm so excited for this mini series that I cannot wait for it to start. :biggrin:

[Saturius]

The under New York bit has me a bit worried. I swear, I don't want to see ANYTHNG Morlock related in this story. I hope that that's not what that line was referring/hinting at. Storm with Morlocks is so overplayed.

[drwho]

I would really like Storm to maybe take more of a teacher role like Xavier and less violent. Maybe have Storm open up a school for mutants in Wakanda. THough it is nice that Marvel finally stopped ignoring this about Storm. Too bad this means she is not a skrull. :mad:

[nikbackm]

I can see this as a way for Storm to question her Husband over his history with the Avengers and compare that to her current situtation or ask Wolverine for some advice of how to multi-task. :tongue:


Wolverine's secondary mutation is obviously making duplicates like Madrox. Either that, or he cut a deal with Sinister for some left-over clones.

[pryde15]

I would really like Storm to maybe take more of a teacher role like Xavier and less violent. Maybe have Storm open up a school for mutants in Wakanda. THough it is nice that Marvel finally stopped ignoring this about Storm. Too bad this means she is not a skrull. :mad:

There were only whats, 20 or so students in New X-Men. There aren't enough teenage mutants left for this idea to work. Especially when they revealed the school is starting back up in San Francisco.

[Pro]

There were only whats, 20 or so students in New X-Men. There aren't enough teenage mutants left for this idea to work. Especially when they revealed the school is starting back up in San Francisco.

Why in gods name would the kids want to return to the school? They were ditched.

[pryde15]

Why in gods name would the kids want to return to the school? They were ditched.

As you can see from the FCBD X-Men comic, Pixie missed her life with the X-Men. And you can probably expect the same from others. Either way the school aspect is coming back, so it's not like it really matters.

[nikbackm]

As you can see from the FCBD X-Men comic, Pixie missed her life with the X-Men. And you can probably expect the same from others. Either way the school aspect is coming back, so it's not like it really matters.

That was Pixie being her usual cheerful self, the others were more a bit more resentful. At least those we saw in the mini.

But it's not like they have a whole lot of other options.

[pryde15]

That was Pixie being her usual cheerful self, the others were more a bit more resentful. At least those we saw in the mini.

But it's not like they have a whole lot of other options.

Mini? Oh DW. Blah. Either way, they are going to want to reintroduce the school aspect, and they will come up with some way to get them back into the book.

[LordAllMighty]

I'm glad to see that she'll have a reaction to the loss of her "child" Kitty other than that blank look in AXM. She should have been depicted mourning with the Astonishing team.

I thought the same thing.

[nikbackm]

I thought the same thing.

Better to show it her in own book so they can give it the space it will require.

If it had been included in the Giant-Size they could not have have reprinted all the alternative covers.

[nikbackm]

Mini? Oh DW. Blah. Either way, they are going to want to reintroduce the school aspect, and they will come up with some way to get them back into the book.

But will we see much of this now that there is no longer any separate "school" title like New X-Men?

Young X-Men seems to more about a team of young mutants going on various missions instead of going to school.

[Samuraixsithlord]

damn it. They could have just made Storm into a Skrull and had her move back in withthe x-men after Secret Invasion

[drwho]

damn it. They could have just made Storm into a Skrull and had her move back in withthe x-men after Secret Invasion

I bet the moment Hudlin is gone from the BP book for good and the BP cartoon is over then Marvel will break the couple up. This is a marriage of convenience in more way than one.

[CMBMOOL]

damn it. They could have just made Storm into a Skrull and had her move back in withthe x-men after Secret Invasion

Amen, another wasted chance for Marvel to include the X-men in a BIG EVENT that could affect them as heroes in the Marvel Universe , and I'm not mentioning HOM or M-day becuase they affected only Mutants. :frown:

[RafiShai]

damn it. They could have just made Storm into a Skrull and had her move back in withthe x-men after Secret Invasion

You have no idea how many times ever since the wedding fiasco I prayed for a solution like that...

But this mini is a step in the right direction. And it's much better than things just going on at the moment, which is just plain horrible.

[Samuraixsithlord]

I hope that "hard choice" that she has to make is breaking up with BP and coming back to the X-men where she belongs.

I mean is Black Panther even that good?

[RafiShai]

I mean is Black Panther even that good?

The book? It's awesome! That is, if you enjoy seeing Storm's personality being butchers, and if you enjoy a writer who turns everyone into racist pricks.

[RolandJP]

The book? It's awesome! That is, if you enjoy seeing Storm's personality being butchers, and if you enjoy a writer who turns everyone into racist pricks.
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee, he writes a couple of white villians, and it gets blown out of proportion. I could understand the charge if all Panthers rogue baddies were white, but..give me a break.

[RafiShai]

Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee, he writes a couple of white villians, and it gets blown out of proportion. I could understand the charge if all Panthers rogue baddies were white, but..give me a break.

He made the mistake of making Doctor Doom racist, and that's the prime example of him making people racist. Dr. Doom? NOT RACIST.

[drwho]

There is a new temp writer during the secrect invasion tie in issues. If you dont like hudlin its an opportunity to read someone else write the guy. Hudlin always includes race one way or another in his stories plus he cant seem tp have his own. the bp book tends to latch on to everyone elses stories.

[frog]

He made the mistake of making Doctor Doom racist, and that's the prime example of him making people racist. Dr. Doom? NOT RACIST.

True. Doom finds everyone inferior!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

True. Doom finds everyone inferior!

Beat me to it, damnit. :biggrin:

[RafiShai]

True. Doom finds everyone inferior!

Seriously though, Doom was never racist, he's quite the opposite. He made the mistake of turning Doom, of all people, into a racist. Hack writer :mad:

[frog]

Seriously though, Doom was never racist, he's quite the opposite. He made the mistake of turning Doom, of all people, into a racist. Hack writer :mad:

Wasn't there a story in which he wanted Storm?

[RafiShai]

Wasn't there a story in which he wanted Storm?

Uncanny 145-147... Amazing story. Too bad it was later retconed to be Doombot :rolleyes:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Wasn't there a story in which he wanted Storm?

The unholy alliance with Arcade thingy? Yup. :biggrin:

Uncanny 145-147... Amazing story. Too bad it was later retconed to be Doombot :rolleyes:

That was a *good* retcon. Doom allying himself with Arcade? Come on. :eek:

This is just as insane as Emma Frost being pals with Rachel Grey. Oh, wait.

[frog]

Those Doombots must be a good way to cop out of any story. Hopefully racist Doom will turn out to be one.

[RafiShai]

Those Doombots must be a good way to cop out of any story. Hopefully racist Doom will turn out to be one.

A-fucking-men.

And yeah on the Doombots thing... Too bad, it was a really lovely story too, they interacted wonderfully.

[Grunty]

The under New York bit has me a bit worried. I swear, I don't want to see ANYTHNG Morlock related in this story. I hope that that's not what that line was referring/hinting at. Storm with Morlocks is so overplayed.

Well even i admit that its overplayed. But maybe it can be used to put a finish under that Storm/Morlock thing.
By showing how really "everyone" has left it, this time for real. Following the X-men example.
Ironical this would mean that New York really became a mutant free zone finaly. Something even the Government and Sentinels didn't manage to do. Which would add an intresting meaning to the X-men (making the X-men the cause of mutant problems for citys).

While i know it won't happen i would really like it if she had a short run in with Marrow during her possible visit in New York. In which she could be reminded about her last time she tried to be there for two groups at the same time.
However even with mister Yost not disliking her its simply that while Storm is a big factor in Marrows backstory, Marrow is only a small footnote in Storms (the Storm Vs. Callisto battle is also more famous and i guess some fans of the peacefull Storm would not like to be reminded about one of Storms most gruesome actions).

[Omegastorm]

Chris Yost likes Storm. Color me a happy fan. I want to cry. I have been missing her garden for ever. I hope he brings it back or something similar. I don't know what else to say I want Storm to blow up into the most important female character in Marvel and right now it looks like that might just be happening. Even though I really dislike much of Hudlin's writing I am glad that the marriage has made her more open to the regular universe. I want to see more of that, mutant, queen (of her own African nation- she is a princess after all) and woman. I look forward to seeing Storm interacting with her the other X-men. I also look forward to a possible conversation about X-force.

o

[Samuraixsithlord]

The book? It's awesome! That is, if you enjoy seeing Storm's personality being butchers, and if you enjoy a writer who turns everyone into racist pricks.

How does he butcher Storms personality?

[Legend437]

Thank goodness, while I was never the biggest Storm fan, it always bothered me that she practically forgot where she came from, so it'll be nice to read this one, I just might pick it up.

[Pro]

How does he butcher Storms personality?

Storm (paraphrasing): "It is not my place to question my king".

[Anna]

Storm (paraphrasing): "It is not my place to question my king".

Marriage does that to some people.

[RafiShai]

Marriage does that to some people.

Yeah, but it was her that stated in the 2006 UXM Annual:

"If I accept his proposal, I will face him as his equal. And I will be accepted as his equal by all, as far as it goes."

And then she was turned into a wallflower, and most notably a CHEERLEADER during a Civil-War fight.

And that's just a small bit of character assassination. I intend on compiling all those horrible moments - soon enough. Just need to get my Photoshop back and working!

[HepOne]

HAHAHAHAHA

Hudlin wins again, a whole thread discussing Black Panther

[RafiShai]

Hudlin wins again, a whole thread dissing Black Panther

There you go, fixed that one for you. Now, what were you saying about Hudlin winning something?

[Jase Q]

Uncanny 145-147... Amazing story. Too bad it was later retconed to be Doombot :rolleyes:

yes...it was retconed to be a Doombot, but Claremont retconed that retcon not too long ago when that encounter was mentioned as an encounter with Doctor Doom himself. I will have to go back and look for #'s

[RafiShai]

Seriously? That's awesome! I'd love to know when it happened so I could look it up myself! It was one of my favorite stories and I was rather disappointed when I saw it being retconed.

[bluedmighty]

He made the mistake of making Doctor Doom racist, and that's the prime example of him making people racist. Dr. Doom? NOT RACIST.

I can't beleive people are still salty about this.

Doom is an ASS and a Narci-Supremist.
It fits PERFECTLY into the scope of his character to make that comment.
Especially if he's trying to goad T'challa.

They were playing the dozens (look it up)

The question here shouldn't be why Hudlin did that to Doom.

The question should be, what in Doom's character makes this particular comment ridiculous?

And why you're so mad about it.

[Beast]

So Hudlin writes while flying cross country. Now I guess we know the truth.

It's the complimentary booze and jetlag that makes Huddy's Black Panther so awful.

[Shade101]

The only thing that I don't understand is why there's a major uproar with some issues of Black Panther involving race and conflict, when the X-Men have been going through it for years. I don't hear too much opposition towards the X-Men for being victims of racism or involving tales of racism in their storylines. But when a few issues of Black Panther involves racism, then that's when the fur starts to fly.

What's the difference between racism used against mutants in the X-Men, and racism used against blacks in Black Panther? I don't understand that.

[bluedmighty]

The only thing that I don't understand is why there's a major uproar with some issues of Black Panther involving race and conflict, when the X-Men have been going through it for years. I don't hear too much opposition towards the X-Men for being victims of racism or involving tales of racism in their storylines. But when a few issues of Black Panther involves racism, then that's when the fur starts to fly.

What's the difference between racism used against mutants in the X-Men, and racism used against blacks in Black Panther? I don't understand that.


It's all about perspective.

To elaborate, would be to shame the Devil.

And I've just been informed that it's quitin time :biggrin:

I'll holla

[Beast]

The only thing that I don't understand is why there's a major uproar with some issues of Black Panther involving race and conflict, when the X-Men have been going through it for years. I don't hear too much opposition towards the X-Men for being victims of racism or involving tales of racism in their storylines. But when a few issues of Black Panther involves racism, then that's when the fur starts to fly.

What's the difference between racism used against mutants in the X-Men, and racism used against blacks in Black Panther? I don't understand that.
Because in X-Men it's well done. In Black Panther, the same can not be said.

Whitey is the devil there.

And it's not a few issues of Black Panther. It's every issue of Black Panther.

[Shade101]

Because in X-Men it's well done. In Black Panther, the same can not be said.

Whitey is the devil there.

And it's not a few issues of Black Panther. It's every issue of Black Panther.

How is racism well done? And there were plenty of white antagonists to the X-Men.

And it's every issue of X-Men as well...is it not? What, nearly 500 issues now? Compared to Black Panther's thirty some odd issues?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

How is racism well done? And there were plenty of white antagonists to the X-Men.

And it's every issue of X-Men as well...is it not? What, nearly 500 issues now? Compared to Black Panther's thirty some odd issues?

It's the Supremacist angle that's annoying. From ANY perspective. I mean, Race Wars? Really?

Create a caucasian-populated utopia a la Wakanda and then have the exact storylines only with the races reverted. Exactly. :eek:

[Beast]

How is racism well done? And there were plenty of white antagonists to the X-Men.

And it's every issue of X-Men as well...is it not? What, nearly 500 issues now? Compared to Black Panther's thirty some odd issues?
You can use and explore racism to make a point or to open people's eyes.

That's how it was and is still done in the X-Men books.

In Huddy's Black Panther, you have racism simply for the sake of racism.

[Beast]

It's the Supremacist angle that's annoying. From ANY perspective. I mean, Race Wars? Really?

Create a caucasian-populated utopia a la Wakanda and then have the exact storylines only with the races reverted. Exactly. :eek:
Exactly! Thank you!!

And that's without mentioning stuff like the Wakandans speaking like stereotypical african-americans.

They're in Africa. So what's with the Ghettoization of what was such a highly developed country.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

They're in Africa. So what's with the Ghettoization of what was such a highly developed country.

When keepin' it real goes wrong.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[Shade101]

It's the Supremacist angle that's annoying. From ANY perspective. I mean, Race Wars? Really?

Create a caucasian-populated utopia a la Wakanda and then have the exact storylines only with the races reverted. Exactly. :eek:

There wouldn't be a difference in my mind. A white dominated society with a black villain that made racist remark to the caucasian race.

I'm not seeing how that's different from a black dominated society with a white villain making a racial remark. Racism is racism. Whether the person was black, white, blue, red, polk a dotted, or striped.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

There wouldn't be a difference in my mind. A white dominated society with a black villain that made racist remark to the caucasian race.

That's the whole point. No diff.

It iwould be JUST AS BAD and people would be EQUALLY annoyed/appalled/revulsed.

[Shade101]

You can use and explore racism to make a point or to open people's eyes.

That's how it was and is still done in the X-Men books.

In Huddy's Black Panther, you have racism simply for the sake of racism.

Ok, I understand that. But racism is a real world issue. Black Panther implemented a real world problem in the series. But it wasn't the focus of series. It wasn't a plot device or anything, it was just an issue that T'Challa and Ororo had to overcome at the time. Like I'm sure they have to on a daily basis.

[Shade101]

Exactly! Thank you!!

And that's without mentioning stuff like the Wakandans speaking like stereotypical african-americans.

They're in Africa. So what's with the Ghettoization of what was such a highly developed country.

What do you mean stereotypical African-Americans and ghettoization?

[Shade101]

That's the whole point. No diff.

It iwould be JUST AS BAD and people would be EQUALLY annoyed/appalled/revulsed.

Ok, so is there a problem with the X-Men and the Homo Sapien supremists they encounter? I still don't see what the difference is besides the fact of using the racism as a plot device.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Ok, so is there a problem with the X-Men and the Homo Sapien supremists they encounter? I still don't see what the difference is besides the fact of using the racism as a plot device.

But mutants are a *fictional* race. And the intolerance they faced was more often than not universal. SYMBOLISM.

Huddy is flat out saying caucasian people are the Devil.

[Beast]

What do you mean stereotypical African-Americans and ghettoization?
Hudlin writes the Wakandans like bad sterotypes of African-Americans.

[Shade101]

But mutants are a *fictional* race. And the intolerance they faced was more often than not universal. SYMBOLISM.

Huddy is flat out saying caucasian people are the Devil.

That's a big leap.

But it's an easy one. Take a guy who produces a black entertainment t.v. station, writes a caucasian villain saying racist remarks to black characters, having said characters experience real life issues like racism, and has a few white antagonists.

Well good golly Miss Molly. We have ourself a case!

[Shade101]

Hudlin writes the Wakandans like bad sterotypes of African-Americans.

So I'm guessing that would be referred to as "ghetto".

And since I haven't read the issue you've seen this in, care to give me an example of what was said. You've peaked my curiosity.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well good golly Miss Molly. We have ourself a case!

But see, that's the thing. We *do* have a case. It's not ONE isolated incident. It's the tone and themes.

[Beast]

That's a big leap.

But it's an easy one. Take a guy who produces a black entertainment t.v. station, writes a caucasian villain saying racist remarks to black characters, having said characters experience real life issues like racism, and has a few white antagonists.

Well good golly Miss Molly. We have ourself a case!
It wouldn't be a major thing, if it wasn't prevelent in EVERY issue.

It always comes back to whites being the devil.

Even the white Skrulls were the evil ones. It's a major theme of his work.

[Shade101]

It wouldn't be a major thing, if it wasn't prevelent in EVERY issue.

It always comes back to whites being the devil.

Even the white Skrulls were the evil ones. It's a major theme of his work.

If I recall correctly, there was a traitor "black" skrull amongst them. And I've read a big bulk of the Black Panther issues. And I can't seem to remember racism taking the spotlight of the storyline in EVERY issue. Perhaps my mind is failing me...

And even IF Hudlin's true intentions were to antagonize all whites in his storylines, you may have just experienced your first bit of racism towards your race. And I'm assuming you're white.

But of course, a little bit of racism in dialogue in a comic book doesn't compare to the real thing at all. Something that me and my "kind" have had to deal with on a daily basis.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

And even IF Hudlin's true intentions were to antagonize all whites in his storylines, you may have just experienced your first bit of racism towards your race. And I'm assuming you're white.

But of course, a little bit of racism in dialogue in a comic book doesn't compare to the real thing at all. Something that me and my "kind" have had to deal with on a daily basis.

You just don't get it. You keep saying racism is unacceptable in any shape or form. But a 'Black Supremacist' motif is just fine?

Don't get me wrong, we *do* get why it's a lot easier for caucasians to be more philosophical about the whole thing. We've had it easy. Hell, our ancestors were the bad guys.

Still. Have Cyclops and Emma utter N-word in the next issue of AXM. Repeatedly.

You won't think it's ok. And neither will we. Please do undersand we're not so much outraged as just rolling our eyes at Hudlin's monthly words of wisdom.

[Shade101]

You just don't get it. You keep saying racism is unacceptable in any shape or form. But a 'Black Supremacist' motif is just fine?

Don't get me wrong, we *do* get why it's a lot easier for caucasians to be more philosophical about the whole thing. We've had it easy. Hell, our ancestors were the bad guys.

Still. Have Cyclops and Emma utter N-word in the next issue of AXM. Repeatedly.

You won't think it's ok. And neither will we. Please do undersand we're not so much outraged as just rolling our eyes at Hudlin's monthly words of wisdom.


No, no, no. That's not what I said. I said a white supremist is just like a black supremist. At the end of the day, theyr'e both supremists. If a white supremist was in a story, I would feel exactly the same way had it been a black supremist.

There's not a difference to me about that. They're both scum. And they're both villains. The X-Men deal with white and black supremists all the time.

But I also don't understand what you're meaning. What do you mean Emma and Cyclops using the N word in an issue of Astonishing X-Men? Storm and T'Challa never used a racial word towards caucasians. At least I don't recall.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

No, no, no. That's not what I said. I said a white supremist is just like a black supremist. At the end of the day, theyr'e both supremists. If a white supremist was in a story, I would feel exactly the same way had it been a black supremist.

And yet you're still not SEEING Huddy's agenda.

But I also don't understand what you're meaning. What do you mean Emma and Cyclops using the N word in an issue of Astonishing X-Men? Storm and T'Challa never used a racial word towards caucasians. At least I don't recall.

I was indulging in an hyperbole. Thought it was obvious, but oh well.

[Shade101]

It wasn't an "obvious" hyperbole, because there was never a time when Storm and T'Challa used a racist term about caucasians.

So I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say by saying that.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Reversal of roles. You having a lot easier time 'seeing' and being annoyed by such themes.

I can't put it any simpler.

[Shade101]

Reversal of roles. You having a lot easier time 'seeing' and being annoyed by such themes.

I can't put it any simpler.

I don't need "simpler" terms. All I need you to do is stop beating around the bush and just say what you need to say.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, most brides have doubts and cold feet. It just made her human.

Just so we're clear, I tiotally would've bought had it anyone but him writing the scene. You know what, come to think of it, I *do* think Storm must've had some "WTF am I even doing?" moments.

Still. Claremont. Having Storm taken away from him.

The bitterness is written in the stars, baby.

[rage6839]

But mutants are a *fictional* race. And the intolerance they faced was more often than not universal. SYMBOLISM.

Huddy is flat out saying caucasian people are the Devil.

So with the above statement, you are saying Hudlin has written every write person as racist? That is not the case. He has written some stories with racists and some fans make it seem as if that is all 30+ plus issues deal with. Sometimes I think people have read one arc, and condemned the entire run.

[Shade101]

So with the above statement, you are saying Hudlin has written every write person as racist? That is not the case. He has written some stories with racists and some fans make it seem as if that is all 30+ plus issues deal with. Sometimes I think people have read one arc, and condemned the entire run.

Exactly.

I admit, his writing isn't too much to get excited over, but it's far from white devil this, and white devil that.

[Beast]

So with the above statement, you are saying Hudlin has written every write person as racist? That is not the case. He has written some stories with racists and some fans make it seem as if that is all 30+ plus issues deal with. Sometimes I think people have read one arc, and condemned the entire run.
"White People are the Devil" is a major theme running through his entire run.

[Shade101]

"White People are the Devil" is a major theme running through his entire run.

No, it's really not...

[Beast]

No, it's really not...
Yes, it really is. But I tire going around in circles on this.

[Shade101]

Yes, it really is. But I tire going around in circles on this.

No, it's really not...:tongue:

[Lucky Luciano]

That interview indicates good things for the series. Tough choices and some "big villian" that is out of her league. Couldn't be Mephisto playing around again, right?

[Shade101]

That interview indicates good things for the series. Tough choices and some "big villian" that is out of her league. Couldn't be Mephisto playing around again, right?

Does she have any history with him?

[jester1436]

Does she have any history with him?

http://i32.tinypic.com/f2vmh4.gif

The X-Men were lining up at Mephisto's kissing booth, obviously.

[Shade101]

Thanks Jester! ^_^

[Fatguy]

No, it's really not...

I actually agree, really.

The problem is, Hudlin is not good at writing comics. Like...at all. Race controversy aside, he's not shown to be a very popular writer, which I like to think is because of his lack of ability.

[Shade101]

I actually agree, really.

The problem is, Hudlin is not good at writing comics. Like...at all. Race controversy aside, he's not shown to be a very popular writer, which I like to think is because of his lack of ability.

I kind of agree. I'm not trying to bash the guy or anything, because there have been some moments that have been memorable and entertaining. But as of late, his issues have been really boring. Perhaps this short break he's taking will enlighten him to new storylines.

[Fatguy]

I kind of agree. I'm not trying to bash the guy or anything, because there have been some moments that have been memorable and entertaining. But as of late, his issues have been really boring. Perhaps this short break he's taking will enlighten him to new storylines.

There's been light rumor that he won't be returning after SI, and I honestly hope that's true. Panther is one of my favorite characters, but I'm not at all a fan of Hudlin's stories, I really want to put BP back on my pull list!

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1156/pantheroo0.jpg

I miss my badass Panther!

[Shade101]

There's been light rumor that he won't be returning after SI, and I honestly hope that's true. Panther is one of my favorite characters, but I'm not at all a fan of Hudlin's stories, I really want to put BP back on my pull list!

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1156/pantheroo0.jpg

I miss my badass Panther!

Ou, great artwork. I'm loving that. Who's the artist?

[Fatguy]

I don't remember lol

I found it online a long time ago and saved it into my computer. It's one of my favorites.

[Shade101]

It's fantastic! The artist needs to do one of Storm too, with a pet panther cuddling on her ankles. XD

[Brian Cronin]

If you actually read Black Panther and think that the major theme of the work is "white people are the devil" then, wow, that's some poor reading right there.

If you don't actually read the book, or read an issue or two here and there (perhaps where it ties in with a book you do read), then I guess I can see you maybe sorta kinda making the case.

But certainly not if you have actually read the whole series. I mean, there's a decent amount of "the United States is uncool" throughout the series, I'll certainly allow that, but even that, I wouldn't note as a MAJOR theme of the series.

They just went on a multi-issue journey to the world of the zombies and the gangster Skrull world, plus on their return, Black Panther has fought Killmonger (a black guy).

The honeymoon story arc - not about white people being the devil.

The Civil War tie-ins - not about white people being the devil.

The X-Men crossover - not about white people being the devil.

So, yeah, where is this "major theme" coming from?

Feel free to dislike Hudlin, but don't misconstrue the guy's stories.

-Brian

[HepOne]

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1156/pantheroo0.jpg


Gabrielle Dell'Otto art. there is more in a series somewhere on the internet

I'm glad Brian weighed in on this because people were getting carried away. I know for a FACT that Beast has been complaining about Black Panther for YEARS. I would be shocked to hear you have been buying a comic book you hate so much. I would also like to know the last issues Frog and DarthCyclopsRLZ picked up because they sound so knowledgable about the "racism" in the issues.

[Optic Rage!]

If you actually read Black Panther and think that the major theme of the work is "white people are the devil" then, wow, that's some poor reading right there.

If you don't actually read the book, or read an issue or two here and there (perhaps where it ties in with a book you do read), then I guess I can see you maybe sorta kinda making the case.

But certainly not if you have actually read the whole series. I mean, there's a decent amount of "the United States is uncool" throughout the series, I'll certainly allow that, but even that, I wouldn't note as a MAJOR theme of the series.

They just went on a multi-issue journey to the world of the zombies and the gangster Skrull world, plus on their return, Black Panther has fought Killmonger (a black guy).

The honeymoon story arc - not about white people being the devil.

The Civil War tie-ins - not about white people being the devil.

The X-Men crossover - not about white people being the devil.

So, yeah, where is this "major theme" coming from?

Feel free to dislike Hudlin, but don't misconstrue the guy's stories.

-Brian

Brian, it may not have been the MAIN theme, but it sure has been a strong one.

If you deny that this book has gone out of its way to make white people look bad then i think you may not be reading the same book.

[HepOne]

Brian, it may not have been the MAIN theme, but it sure has been a strong one.

If you deny that this book has gone out of its way to make white people look bad then i think you may not be reading the same book.

Have YOU been reading the book. Doom acting as a villain does not make white people "look bad".

[nikbackm]

Have YOU been reading the book. Doom acting as a villain does not make white people "look bad".

But Doom acting as a racist maybe?

[Optic Rage!]

Have YOU been reading the book. Doom acting as a villain does not make white people "look bad".

Yes, i have actually...but i dropped it like most people but still read it in the shops now and again for a good laugh.

And please, the whole Doom thing was one out of MANY moments.

Also, in his entire history Doom has never said a racist comment, sure he has been a Villain, but i think it speaks volumes that the first person to have him say something racist was hudlin.

Also, from the sound of things, it looks like we wont have to put up with Hudlin for much longer.....

I know this is imature but i can not WAIT to go over to the hudlin forums and rub it in after the way they acted over here.

[HepOne]

But Doom acting as a racist maybe?

because Doom is representative of white people?


I know this is imature but i can not WAIT to go over to the hudlin forums and rub it in after the way they acted over here.

Yes it is immature to troll another forum because of the actions of one person (sinjection)

[timbox]

Guys, I have good news. Chris Yost is writing this mini-series.


He's good.

[HepOne]

Guys, I have good news. Chris Yost is writing this mini-series.


He's good.

David Yardin said he did a cover for it see his art here http://davidyardin.deviantart.com/art/Storm-Con-Sketch-89490801

I hope this has good art

[timbox]

David Yardin said he did a cover for it see his art here http://davidyardin.deviantart.com/art/Storm-Con-Sketch-89490801

I hope this has good art

Yardin is awesome, I wonder who's doing interiors.

[worstblogever]

If you actually read Black Panther and think that the major theme of the work is "white people are the devil" then, wow, that's some poor reading right there.

If you don't actually read the book, or read an issue or two here and there (perhaps where it ties in with a book you do read), then I guess I can see you maybe sorta kinda making the case.

But certainly not if you have actually read the whole series. I mean, there's a decent amount of "the United States is uncool" throughout the series, I'll certainly allow that, but even that, I wouldn't note as a MAJOR theme of the series.

They just went on a multi-issue journey to the world of the zombies and the gangster Skrull world, plus on their return, Black Panther has fought Killmonger (a black guy).

The honeymoon story arc - not about white people being the devil.

The Civil War tie-ins - not about white people being the devil.

The X-Men crossover - not about white people being the devil.

So, yeah, where is this "major theme" coming from?

Feel free to dislike Hudlin, but don't misconstrue the guy's stories.

-Brian

Actually, Cronin... wasn't there an assembled group of U.S. government guys during BP's Civil War issues trying to manipulate the U.S. media to put the screws to T'Challa? And all of "the Man" present were quite Caucasean.

From the honeymoon through Civil War, T'Challa did have a "White Bum of the Month" thing going. He bested some of the most formidable characters in the Marvel U for a stretch, Doom, Namor, Black Bolt & the Inhuman nation, Captain America, Tony Stark, and oh yeah... Storm was revealed to have totally softened up Thor so Hercules had a cake walk to finish him off. That year did raise my eyebrow a bit, especially when each win for T'Challa got heralded by a now-banned poster who proclaimed, "TAKE THAT, *Caucasean epitath here*" with each issue in turn.

And until Killmonger this past month, alnone of the action even took place anywhere near Wakanda. In spite of just after the honeymoon, all the Wakandan elders demanding T'Challa focus on problems at home, rather than try to police the whole world.

I guess what happened 'round these parts is... we just got an earful about how T'Challa was so undoubtedly righteous for beatin' up whitey during the honeymoon/Civil War arcs from posters who shall not be named. We also heard a lot about Storm being "oppressed" by Xavier and the X-Men, and Hudlin was making a point of "showing her liberated".

Which is frustrating, for me, and why the hardest obstacle I face being a Black Panther fan seems to be other Black Panther fans who miss the point, and try to make race vs. race the point. Hell, casual BP readers might see a discussion of the work and start believing that's what the book is actually about if they hear it with great passion and at endless length.

In effect... the lunatic fringe made enough noise that it's gotten hard for some of us to just read the issue at face value without the whole thing becoming. It's almost like I want to collect sane BP fans and Storm fans in a place so I can talk to them and cleanse the palate to enjoy the book without reading it as it would be by Hooper X from "Chasing Amy".

Now we're being shown a Storm who's as sick and tired of being the Queen of Wakanda as we are of reading it... and well... we're glad to see her again for the first time.

Just my $0.02, Overlord Cronin.

[Slung]

Yes it is immature to troll another forum because of the actions of one person (sinjection)

It wasn't just one person. He was an emissary that would then go back and forth to laugh at us and talk about how horrible and misguided we are. And that this board is full of racists and "the gays". Seriously.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It wasn't just one person. He was an emissary that would then go back and forth to laugh at us and talk about how horrible and misguided we are. And that this board is full of racists and"the gays". Seriously.

Being a jaded hetero caucasian and all, those always cracked me up.

Not being a black supremacist? RACIST!
Being gay? ABOMINATION!

I mean, 'appaling' doesn't even begin to cover this crap which suspiciously sounds like hate speech. Irony alert.

[HepOne]

It wasn't just one person. He was an emissary that would then go back and forth to laugh at us and talk about how horrible and misguided we are. And that this board is full of racists and "the gays". Seriously.

Sinjection isn't a representative of the people on that forum, half the people there are already commenting here about comic issues and not sinjections highly questionable views.

I just dont want to see petty gloating if/when there is a change in Black Panther writers. Their discussion about Storm and Black Panther are often more constructive than ones over here.

[Optic Rage!]

Love you, buddy, seriously.

But I still don't get how you ended up declaring the cease-fire in the Storm vs Cyke thread, lol. :wink:

LOL.

Yeah, i suprised myself even, but i have done the Scott vs Storm thing so many times i have lost count.

And when i join the hudlin forum when he gets the boot i think i will title the thread something along the lines of..

''A messege from your good friends the gays and the racists of CBR''

......

LMAO

''

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I just dont want to see petty gloating if/when there is a change in Black Panther writers. Their discussion about Storm and Black Panther are often more constructive than ones over here.

Please. There is nothing more constructive than the 'Storm: Awesome or Writer Gone Mad' debate.

Ok, constructive might be the wrong word.

LOL.

Yeah, i suprised myself even, but i have done the Scott vs Storm thing so many times i have lost count.

Well, the thread felt like a poorly disguised direct attack against Cyke, but, yeah, I suppose peaceful cohabitation is healthy once in a while.

Still, I couldn't help but feel like 'OMG, this is like Steven freakin Seagal telling us to TALK THINGS OUT, lol!!!'. :wink:

[bluedmighty]

Mornin Folks :biggrin:

OK

But mutants are a *fictional* race. And the intolerance they faced was more often than not universal. SYMBOLISM.

Huddy is flat out saying caucasian people are the Devil.

There you have it in a nutshell Shade, perspective.

The X-men give people a playroom, were they can act out the "what if I was descriminated against" scenario ini a "Safe" environment (Think dolls for mollested Children).

Mr. Hudlin's approach, however, is unabahsed (interprited by some as "Ham fisted"). He doesn't ascribe racism to one particular group of people (Make shift organizations) calling them evil. Instead, he's had a few bad men make some racially charged statements.

Statements, that other characters have made before (in one shape, form, or fashion)

The Differance:

Other writers have the protagonists (Majority white mind you) "check" the "ignorant racist" (I have a HUGE problem with the term "ignorant" racist, but that's another issue).

This reafirms that not all white people are racist.

PRESTO:
Story over. We talked about race. Struck a blow for freedom. No body but the bad guy feels like an ass.

Compare that to the recent black Panther.

There are seldom any White Protagonists (minus the FF issues).
There are, however, White villains.
The Black Panther "don't take no shit off Nobody" :biggrin:
His stories do not go out of their way to reafirm that not all white people are racist.

PRESTO:
Story over. Race may have been mentioned. White people feel bad :frown:. Hudlin is a hack and a racist. How dare he.

Now for the theory:

White people consider themselves to be "Universal".

Whenever you put forth an image or idea that contradicts that beleif there is going to be friction.

I think that some (not all) White readers feel alienated when the issue is touched upon by some one who doesn't take their feelings about it into consideration. It's too black for their tastes (may admit it may not).

Tradtionally, by having the Black Hero be partnered with or mentored by a White Hero, (New 3-D Man, Patriot, The Falcon, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Cloak, X-people, etc.) the issues and appearance of race seem to be dealt with. It also gives the majority of writers a window of perspective into said Black characters (many have Black friends, but may never have experienced being black themselves.)

IMOP Priest made a BOLD move when he revealed that T'challa became an Avenger to spy on them. But constant Ross took away from that.

The character Ross's sole purpose in being was to give "Universal" (White) poeple someone to conect to. You can read it in one of his interviews. Now he SAYS that he needed a character that could help narrate, and show the inner workings of the Panther. But if that's the case, why couldn't he have been black?

Also, there has been an abuse of the term "Streotypical".

While yes, Mr. Hudlin has given all of Wakandans a "Western Urban" feel.
I can't say that's any worse than a Yellow disco shirt, a Tiera, and the phrase "Sweet Christmas". Or parents that are L.A. Gangsters while everbody else's parents are Scientists, Aliens, Magicians, and Time Travelers. Respectively.
I've got more, I'm just stopping.

Also, Racists aren't necessarily ignorant.

HATEFULL, but not exclusively ignorant.

[Shade101]

Actually, Cronin... wasn't there an assembled group of U.S. government guys during BP's Civil War issues trying to manipulate the U.S. media to put the screws to T'Challa? And all of "the Man" present were quite Caucasean.

Ok, but honestly, most of the people working for the government are white men.

[bluedmighty]

If you actually read Black Panther and think that the major theme of the work is "white people are the devil" then, wow, that's some poor reading right there.

If you don't actually read the book, or read an issue or two here and there (perhaps where it ties in with a book you do read), then I guess I can see you maybe sorta kinda making the case.

But certainly not if you have actually read the whole series. I mean, there's a decent amount of "the United States is uncool" throughout the series, I'll certainly allow that, but even that, I wouldn't note as a MAJOR theme of the series.

They just went on a multi-issue journey to the world of the zombies and the gangster Skrull world, plus on their return, Black Panther has fought Killmonger (a black guy).

The honeymoon story arc - not about white people being the devil.

The Civil War tie-ins - not about white people being the devil.

The X-Men crossover - not about white people being the devil.

So, yeah, where is this "major theme" coming from?

Feel free to dislike Hudlin, but don't misconstrue the guy's stories.

-Brian

MAN I wish I would have read through the thread first.

I could have kept my "Crazy" to my self :redface:

Well said sir. Well said.

[Fatguy]

Also, Racists aren't necessarily ignorant.


How can you be racist and not ignorant?

To be racist, that means you hate an entire people based upon what they look like or their country of origin. To believe that all people of a certain race are the same and should be treated as a whole, instead of individually, is the very definition of ignorance.

You cannot be wise and racist, it makes no sense. To be racist is to be WILLFULLY ignorant.

[Shade101]

How can you be racist and not ignorant?

To be racist, that means you hate an entire people based upon what they look like or their country of origin. To believe that all people of a certain race are the same and should be treated as a whole, instead of individually, is the very definition of ignorance.

You cannot be wise and racist, it makes no sense. To be racist is to be WILLFULLY ignorant.

Correct. Sorry Blue, but I didn't understand where you were getting with that one either, lol.

[Daouda]

If you actually read Black Panther and think that the major theme of the work is "white people are the devil" then, wow, that's some poor reading right there.

If you don't actually read the book, or read an issue or two here and there (perhaps where it ties in with a book you do read), then I guess I can see you maybe sorta kinda making the case.

But certainly not if you have actually read the whole series. I mean, there's a decent amount of "the United States is uncool" throughout the series, I'll certainly allow that, but even that, I wouldn't note as a MAJOR theme of the series.

They just went on a multi-issue journey to the world of the zombies and the gangster Skrull world, plus on their return, Black Panther has fought Killmonger (a black guy).

The honeymoon story arc - not about white people being the devil.

The Civil War tie-ins - not about white people being the devil.

The X-Men crossover - not about white people being the devil.

So, yeah, where is this "major theme" coming from?

Feel free to dislike Hudlin, but don't misconstrue the guy's stories.

-Brian

Well said Brian.

I swear people must be reading a different BP then me.

I've posted previously on the topic.

Suffice to say Black Panther is one of the few comics I buy every month and I love Ororo's presentation in the series.:smile:


Excelsior!

Daoud

[bluedmighty]

Actually, Cronin... wasn't there an assembled group of U.S. government guys during BP's Civil War issues trying to manipulate the U.S. media to put the screws to T'Challa? And all of "the Man" present were quite Caucasean.

Like that's never been the case

http://www.finalcall.com/MEMORANDUM-46.htm

www.lifesitenews.com/waronfamily/nssm200/nssm200.pdf

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/COINTELPRO/gjp3.html

King Alfred aka Rex-84 aka Operation Garden Plot:

A major law firm for the Gehlen Organization is Sinsheimer, Schiebelhut, and Baggett.

The Gehlen Organization, copying Hitler's New Order, established a concentration camp system in San Luis Obispo County. It was called the California Specialized Training Institute. It developed plans called the *King Alfred Plan, Operation Cable Splitter, Operation Garden Plot,* and *REX-84* and was later renamed as the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). You can get more information on these subjects from Militia of Montana, Bo Gritz, *Spotlight Newspaper,* etc.

http://hometown.aol.com/TruthCenter/KingAlfredPlan.html


From the honeymoon through Civil War, T'Challa did have a "White Bum of the Month" thing going. He bested some of the most formidable characters in the Marvel U for a stretch, Doom, Namor, Black Bolt & the Inhuman nation, Captain America, Tony Stark, and oh yeah... Storm was revealed to have totally softened up Thor so Hercules had a cake walk to finish him off. That year did raise my eyebrow a bit, especially when each win for T'Challa got heralded by a now-banned poster who proclaimed, "TAKE THAT, *Caucasean epitath here*" with each issue in turn.

I will over simplify the matter here, and call it backlash.

The Black Panther was anything but "Cool" until the Priest run.

He did not WANT to write a Black Superhero.

Mr. Hudlin, on the other hand, WANTED to write a Black Superhero.


And until Killmonger this past month, none of the action even took place anywhere near Wakanda. In spite of just after the honeymoon, all the Wakandan elders demanding T'Challa focus on problems at home, rather than try to police the whole world.

It's a comicbook hommie "ish" happens


I guess what happened 'round these parts is... we just got an earful about how T'Challa was so undoubtedly righteous for beatin' up whitey during the honeymoon/Civil War arcs from posters who shall not be named. We also heard a lot about Storm being "oppressed" by Xavier and the X-Men, and Hudlin was making a point of "showing her liberated".

Fair. But how does beef with a poster translate into beef with the book?


Which is frustrating, for me, and why the hardest obstacle I face being a Black Panther fan seems to be other Black Panther fans who miss the point, and try to make race vs. race the point. Hell, casual BP readers might see a discussion of the work and start believing that's what the book is actually about if they hear it with great passion and at endless length.

That's what I mean about perspective.

It seems to me that race isn't brought up in a Panther descussion unless a poster brings it up.

And then it's usaully to call Hudlin a racist. At which point another person feels compelled to deffend a book that he likes and a wariter he apprieciates.


In effect... the lunatic fringe made enough noise that it's gotten hard for some of us to just read the issue at face value without the whole thing becoming. It's almost like I want to collect sane BP fans and Storm fans in a place so I can talk to them and cleanse the palate to enjoy the book without reading it as it would be by Hooper X from "Chasing Amy".

Fair.

But "Sane" doesn't HAVE to mean "On the same page"

On that note, were you a BP fan before Priest?

Are you a Panther fan, or a fan of what you consider to be good writing?


Now we're being shown a Storm who's as sick and tired of being the Queen of Wakanda as we are of reading it... and well... we're glad to see her again for the first time.

She was being sarcastic.

How do I know?

Of the 5 names and titles she gave for herself,

"Storm" was not one of them.

Take from that what you will. :biggrin:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She was being sarcastic.

How do I know?

Of the 5 names and titles she gave for herself,

"Storm" was not one of them.

Take from that what you will. :biggrin:

OFFICIAL titles.

It wasn't something *she* chose for a goof. Nice try. :tongue:

[bluedmighty]

How can you be racist and not ignorant?

To be racist, that means you hate an entire people based upon what they look like or their country of origin. To believe that all people of a certain race are the same and should be treated as a whole, instead of individually, is the very definition of ignorance.

You cannot be wise and racist, it makes no sense. To be racist is to be WILLFULLY ignorant.

Correct. Sorry Blue, but I didn't understand where you were getting with that one either, lol.

Don't worry guys, I've got you :biggrin:

It is my belief that this is one of the reasons racism exists today.
We (people in general) have a preconcieved notion of what racism is (To the majority, Racists wear suspenders and plaid shirts when they're not dressed in Hoods and robes).

Let's start by defining "Ignorance"

is the state or fact of being ignorant;

It implies, lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

The racists of yesteryear did NOT lack knowledge, had ample opportunities to learn, and a wealth of sources for information.

In truth, many of them feined ignorance once slavery was a wrap (CYA)
But got right back to their hateful ways just in time to have us drink out of water hoses and swing us from trees (Monkies, swinging from trees Must have been hilarious. At that time for those poeple of of course :rolleyes: )

"We didn't know any better."
"We thought they liked it."

Would you say that the whole of the United Sates between the years of 1619-1964
were ignorant?

Also, what is Racism?

rac·ism –noun

1. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. Hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

As I said before, lack of knowledge, learning, and information is NOT a prerequisite to being a racist.

Would you say that Hitler lacked Knowledge, learning, and information?
Henry Kissenger
JD Rockerfeller
JP Morgan
Margaret Sanger
etc.
etc.

Racism has been ascribed to the ignorant the same way ignorant was ascribed to the term "Nigger" which was southern slang for a term that origially meant "Black" (in some languages and "Guerilla" in Portuguese) with a little bit of a "non-person" flavour (Our "John" and "Jane doe" if you will) thrown in for kicks.

OFFICIAL titles.

It wasn't something *she* chose for a goof. Nice try. :tongue:


OFFICIAL, as in what do we call you.

"Storm" was not given as an exceptable "OFFICIAL" title.

Whether it was intentional or not, she did not say "Yeah, just call me Storm".

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

As much as it pains me, bluedmighty is kinda right.

Racists aren't necessarily ignorant.

They're just HORRIBLE human beings.

[Fatguy]

Yeah, they don't lack the INFORMATION, they just choose to ignore it, they discard the logic. It's like if I read a book that said the world is round, and I just shook my head and said "No! It's flat!". There's a lot of info out there, but I wouldn't accept it because as far as I care? Flat.

Willful ignorance. It's burying your head in the sand. And yes, Hitler was clearly ignorant in thinking that the blond haired, blue eyed white man was a superior species. That's a clear lack of knowledge, and a ton of arrogance.

We redheads are obviously the superior people.

[bluedmighty]

As much as it pains me, bluedmighty is kinda right.

Racists aren't necessarily ignorant.

They're just HORRIBLE human beings.

SKADOOSH!!!!! :biggrin:

Yeah, they don't lack the INFORMATION, they just choose to ignore it, they discard the logic. It's like if I read a book that said the world is round, and I just shook my head and said "No! It's flat!". There's a lot of info out there, but I wouldn't accept it because as far as I care? Flat.

Willful ignorance. It's burying your head in the sand. And yes, Hitler was clearly ignorant in thinking that the blond haired, blue eyed white man was a superior species. That's a clear lack of knowledge, and a ton of arrogance.

We redheads are obviously the superior people.

Fair.

LOL GINGER POWER :biggrin:

[Fatguy]

Err, I mean if I read a book that said the world is ROUND. I must learn to proof read!

[bluedmighty]

Err, I mean if I read a book that said the world is ROUND. I must learn to proof read!

No worries cheif.
I got you :biggrin:

[Daouda]

Don't worry guys, I've got you :biggrin:

It is my beleif that this is one of the reasons racism exists today.
We (people in general) have a preconcieved notion of what racism is (To the majority, Racists wear suspenders and plaid shirts when they're not dressed in Hoods and robes).

Let's start by defining "Ignorance"

is the state or fact of being ignorant;

It implies, lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

The racists of yesteryear did NOT lack knowledge, had ample opportunities to learn, and a wealth of sources for information.

In truth, many of them feined ignorance once slavery was a wrap (CYA)
But got right back to their hateful ways just in time to have us drink out of water hoses and swing us from trees (Monkies, swinging from trees Must have been hilarious. At that time for those poeple of of course :rolleyes: )

"We didn't know any better."
"We thought they liked it."

Would you say that the whole of the United Sates between the years 1619-1964
were ignorant?

Also, what is Racism?

rac·ism –noun

1. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. Hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

As I said before, lack of knowledge, learning, and information is NOT a prerequisite to being a racist.

Would you say that Hitler lacked Knowledge, learning, and information?
Henry Kissenger
JD Rockerfeller
JP Morgan
Margaret Sanger
etc.
etc.

Racism has been ascribed to the ignorant the same way ignorant was ascribed to the term "Nigger" which was southern slang for a term that origially meant "Black" (in some languages and Guerilla in Portuguese) with a little bit of a "non-person" flavour (Our "John" and "Jane doe" if you will) thrown in for kicks.



Outstanding bluedmighty!

There is a strain of thought that "intelligence" is a kind of thing that applies to all things and if you have it in one sphere, you have it in all. The idea is exemplified in comic book geniuses like Reed and Doom who apparently are scientific experts in everything.

Real life isn't like that.

People can be well read, clever, smart and even genius in certain fields and still be utterly, uncomprehendingly wrong about something else.

Re: Doom, He was calling Wakandans savages and shocked at T'Challa's "nobility" way before Hudlin wrote him. I guess some people don't know that.
Reggie wrote Doom more subtly in Black Panther #19 than Doom's initial encounter with T'Challa in the 70's.
BP# 19 is one of my favorite issues. Storm even saves T'Challa and it ends with a kiss and laughter! I loved it!

SKADOOSH!!!!! :biggrin:


BlueD your like Obama! You give me the courage to hope.:smile:


Excelsior!

Daoud

[RafiShai]

And when i join the hudlin forum when he gets the boot i think i will title the thread something along the lines of..

''A messege from your good friends the gays and the racists of CBR''


I've known you for about three years, and I can clearly declare, that if you actually do that - I will love you more than I usually do. I fucking swear.

Also, I just quoted a post from page back. I studied all day long. So there :tongue:

[Imraith Nimphais]

David Yardin said he did a cover for it see his art here http://davidyardin.deviantart.com/art/Storm-Con-Sketch-89490801

I hope this has good art

I hope so too...I just gander Yardin's site...really good stuff there.

[Brian Cronin]

Brian, it may not have been the MAIN theme, but it sure has been a strong one.

If you deny that this book has gone out of its way to make white people look bad then i think you may not be reading the same book.

I think it often goes out of its way to make the US government look bad. Or, rather, I suppose, in Hudlin's view, he is going out of his way to show the US government's failures for what they are.

If you're going to do a big thing about how the government is lame, you're going to be having a lot of white guys as the "bad guys," because most of the US government is run by white guys.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

Actually, Cronin... wasn't there an assembled group of U.S. government guys during BP's Civil War issues trying to manipulate the U.S. media to put the screws to T'Challa? And all of "the Man" present were quite Caucasean.

From the honeymoon through Civil War, T'Challa did have a "White Bum of the Month" thing going. He bested some of the most formidable characters in the Marvel U for a stretch, Doom, Namor, Black Bolt & the Inhuman nation, Captain America, Tony Stark, and oh yeah... Storm was revealed to have totally softened up Thor so Hercules had a cake walk to finish him off. That year did raise my eyebrow a bit, especially when each win for T'Challa got heralded by a now-banned poster who proclaimed, "TAKE THAT, *Caucasean epitath here*" with each issue in turn.

And until Killmonger this past month, alnone of the action even took place anywhere near Wakanda. In spite of just after the honeymoon, all the Wakandan elders demanding T'Challa focus on problems at home, rather than try to police the whole world.

I guess what happened 'round these parts is... we just got an earful about how T'Challa was so undoubtedly righteous for beatin' up whitey during the honeymoon/Civil War arcs from posters who shall not be named. We also heard a lot about Storm being "oppressed" by Xavier and the X-Men, and Hudlin was making a point of "showing her liberated".

Which is frustrating, for me, and why the hardest obstacle I face being a Black Panther fan seems to be other Black Panther fans who miss the point, and try to make race vs. race the point. Hell, casual BP readers might see a discussion of the work and start believing that's what the book is actually about if they hear it with great passion and at endless length.

In effect... the lunatic fringe made enough noise that it's gotten hard for some of us to just read the issue at face value without the whole thing becoming. It's almost like I want to collect sane BP fans and Storm fans in a place so I can talk to them and cleanse the palate to enjoy the book without reading it as it would be by Hooper X from "Chasing Amy".

Now we're being shown a Storm who's as sick and tired of being the Queen of Wakanda as we are of reading it... and well... we're glad to see her again for the first time.

Just my $0.02, Overlord Cronin.

If annoying posters had influence over how we read comic books, I'd never enjoy most comics.

Especially ones featuring Magneto. :wink:

Anyhow, like I told Optic Rage, there is definitely a string of stories in Black Panther knocking the US government, which is fair enough. And if you're going to do that, it's going to involve mostly white dudes being the bad guys.

As for the Doom stuff, as we saw from Bendis in Mighty Avengers, Doom's characterization is hardly consistent. Him being racist is no less out of character than him calling Ms. Marvel a tramp or whatever he called her.

This doesn't mean that Hudlin doesn't make mistakes - I think he makes a lot of them. I think the early issues are kinda painful to read, especially compared with his later ones.

But my problems with his work are not due to any racism stuff, as I don't think it's a major issue in the book.

Panther being better at robots than Doom, okay, now that I had a problem with. :wink:

-Brian

[Yogaflame]

I hope so too...I just gander Yardin's site...really good stuff there.

He drew BP 8-9 when Storm and the X-Men visited Africa, and he did the Storm mini series with Storm and BP as kids. He's good, solid style, but I hope they have someone else, if not just for the sake of novelty.

[Imraith Nimphais]

yes...i concur...I would prefer an entirely new and interesting artist too.