Supergirl´s new creative team.

[cpahl2000]

I just read an interview by Sterling Gate and jamal Igle are the new creative team on Supergirl.

here the link for the complete interview.


www.newsarama.com/comics/080627-wwwcsupergirlteam.html

[Jack Zodiac]

Who the hell's Sterling Gate?

But man, Jamal on pencils? I'd peek at it just for that. I love his art!

[sbcomics]

He wrote the back-up tale featuring Kryb, the Sinestro Corps member who steals the babies of Green Lanterns, in "Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Superman Prime." He also wrote "Green Lantern Corps" 21 and 22 and co-wrote the "Green Lantern/Sinestro Corps Secret Files" with Geoff Johns. I've known him for a while, since before he started writing comics, and he's a great guy.
I talked to him briefly today about Supergirl:
http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/2008/06/27/oklahomas-sterling-gates-to-write-supergirl/

[CMBMOOL]

Let's hope that this new creative team can work out the kinks in Supergirl. :rolleyes:

[Jack Zodiac]

He wrote the Kryb back up? Sweet! That was the only good thing about that awful Superboy Prime one-shot. Didn't care too much for his Green Lantern Corps stories, though, but given the subject matter, I'm not surprised. Well, I gave everyone else a shot, I might as well do him the same service.

Besides, Jamal on pencils? It's already at least visually appealing.

[Mr. Palmer]

I think this sounds like great news. I'm already enjoying the book, so to put someone like Jamal on pencils, mixed with a rather interesting writer, I can't wait!

[Sean Walsh]

Gates worked pretty close with Johns during SINESTRO CORPS WAR, and since they want SUPERGIRL more closely aligned with SUPERMAN and ACTION, it's a smart move.

And yes, Jamal Igle certainly makes this a dang nice lookin' book. :)

Sounds good.

[Azure Owl]

Well, At least she's finally getting a supporting cast. That alone is reason for optimism.

[cpahl2000]

I think this sounds like great news. I'm already enjoying the book, so to put someone like Jamal on pencils, mixed with a rather interesting writer, I can't wait!


That´s true. These new changes will bring Supergirl to a next level of excitement.The creative team is awesome both gates and Igle are great .I can´t wait either.

[Johnny_Luck]

glad I am dropping this soon, Jamal is extremely overrated. I should have dropped it with issue 19 anyways.

[krammocon]

Who did that cover? Jamal?

[torippu]

Who did that cover? Jamal?

Over on his blog (http://jamaligle.blogspot.com/), Jamal mentioned that the cover was by Joshua Middleton.

Here's Supergirl from Jamal:
http://bp1.blogger.com/_0ELZ9b065w8/SGVYEBX2KeI/AAAAAAAAAVA/ONKGW8w5ywA/s1600/Supergirlpromopencils2a.jpg

Looks really good - with Igle announced as the regular artist, there is definitely an excellent chance of me giving this book a chance.

[cpahl2000]

I loved the page, great to see his Supergirl.He´ll do an amazing job.

[cpahl2000]

Over on his blog (http://jamaligle.blogspot.com/), Jamal mentioned that the cover was by Joshua Middleton.

Here's Supergirl from Jamal:
http://bp1.blogger.com/_0ELZ9b065w8/SGVYEBX2KeI/AAAAAAAAAVA/ONKGW8w5ywA/s1600/Supergirlpromopencils2a.jpg

Looks really good - with Igle announced as the regular artist, there is definitely an excellent chance of me giving this book a chance.


AMAZING ART! Jamal will do an excellen job on Supergirl.

[CMBMOOL]

AMAZING ART! Jamal will do an excellen job on Supergirl.


I agree Jamal will do this book some good old fashion justice. :biggrin:

[cpahl2000]

That´s ture. jamal will bring a style to the tittle. Since Ian´s run that Supergirl needs a great artist.:cool:

[Jack Zodiac]

Yeah, definitely. Ian's was far too Nineties and unlikably stylized. Johnson's was serviceable. But Jamal is going to make this book look fantastic for once.

[David Atkins]

Who the hell's Sterling Gate?

But man, Jamal on pencils? I'd peek at it just for that. I love his art!

I echo these sentiments. I didn't even read the books Sterling Gate did that were listed in this thread. But Jamal rocks.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I hope he steps up his writing from that bland Broodika storyarc in Green Lantern Corps. That entire story just screamed "filler" with every line of dialogue.

[KET]

Wow...yet another c-list writer on this book, and has Ingle ever saved a series that was already failing? Looks more like DiDio and DC are ENTIRELY relying on the crossover gimmick to keep this book afloat.

[phantomblot]

Wow...yet another c-list writer on this book, and has Ingle ever saved a series that was already failing?

Firestorm he kept if going for two years , his Nightwing issues sold better than the issues before and after. So putting Jamal is more than a viable choice for the series and the man's name is Igle not Ingle.

[Mia]

MP: What are your favorite “Supergirl” comics?
SG: Y’know, I was a big fan of the Carmine Infantino-Paul Kupperberg “Daring New Adventures of Supergirl” comics in the mid-80’s. I loved loved loved Supergirl the movie when I was a kid, and I read that comic book adaptation they did so many times the staples fell out. I’m also a big fan of the Jeph Loeb-Michael Turner story in Superman/Batman that introduced this version of Kara Zor-El.




Okay...can someone fill me in on this?


Is Kara going to be cool again like she was under Loeb/Rucka/Kelly. Or will we be treated to another sachrine Beddard/Puckett version of 'Litte Shirley Temple'.

I need to know before I tell my guy to add this book to my play list.

Thanks.

[cpahl2000]

This new creative team is going to be totally different. I have high hopes.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Okay...can someone fill me in on this?


Is Kara going to be cool again like she was under Loeb/Rucka/Kelly. Or will we be treated to another sachrine Beddard/Puckett version of 'Litte Shirley Temple'.

I need to know before I tell my guy to add this book to my play list.

Thanks.

A little of both, it seems.

Give his first issue a shot and see if you like it before leaping to any conclusions.

[Jack Zodiac]

Is Kara going to be cool again like she was under Loeb/Rucka/Kelly.

I certainly hope not. If they wanna make her cool, they should give her a bomber jacket and motorcycle.

[Johnny_Luck]

Okay...can someone fill me in on this?


Is Kara going to be cool again like she was under Loeb/Rucka/Kelly. Or will we be treated to another sachrine Beddard/Puckett version of 'Litte Shirley Temple'.

I need to know before I tell my guy to add this book to my play list.

Thanks.

Seems like rather than making it 97 percent superman 2 percent other people and 1 percent Kara like the last 10 issues, its going to be about 95 percent supermans supporting cast, 2 percent superman and 3 percert her in her own title.

So no I don't expect to her to be the strong, kick ass, fun chick with a strong self confidence and backbone with the edhe that made her different.

I also don't expect to ever see a supergirl book about supergirl if they think the best way to go about her title is to have pretty much every superman character star in it more than her, rather than just have it be her in HER title.

[Sean Whitmore]

Is Kara going to be cool again like she was under Loeb/Rucka/Kelly.

Considering DC's track record for bad decisions? Yeah, probably.


SEAN

[Johnny_Luck]

Considering DC's track record for bad decisions? Yeah, probably.


SEAN

No the Bad decision is to make her cast all people Supes either knows, fucks or has fucked. Rather than fixing her friendship with Cassie, finding people like boomer, you know original people and she has proven she doesn't get along with normal folk outside of saving them and I see no reason she should be forced to.

Not to mention make her title be about fearing and needing him over her growing as a character, making mistakes, learning from them, being an individual and actually doing things people her age would do like have friends over to watch tv and movies or go out dancing during her down time.

I have no friggin doubt that Kara will be fucked up by being force feed some ridculous secret id so she can hang with the humans. You know rather than writers actually showing they can be creative and write a solid hero who doesn't need one without one.

[Jack Zodiac]

Boy am I glad Loeb, Rucka, and Kelly aren't touching this book anymore. I'll take boring over boring and awful any day of the week.

[cpahl2000]

Boy am I glad Loeb, Rucka, and Kelly aren't touching this book anymore. I'll take boring over boring and awful any day of the week.


Me too, specially Rucka and Kelly, those were the horrible runs, specially Rucka.:evilangry:

[Mia]

Me too, specially Rucka and Kelly, those were the horrible runs, specially Rucka.:evilangry:

Hmmm...too bad those 'horrible' runs were the highest sellers ever :wink: .

[Mia]

Me too, specially Rucka and Kelly, those were the horrible runs, specially Rucka.:evilangry:

And here are the sales figures...

SUPERGIRL #17 --50,429
SUPERGIRL #18---50,279
SUPERGIRL #19---48,576 *End of Kelley's Run
SUPERGIRL #20 (AA)---46,862
SUPERGIRL #29----30,192--Sales as of May


I don't know about you but that pretty much tells me that the current changes haven't really gone over very well with the majority of readers. The first rule of business is to make money and that can only be done by giving the readers what they want. Most readers want to read about a formidable Supergirl who is her own person. Not Pollyanna.

[WorstThingUS]

No the Bad decision is to make her cast all people Supes either knows, fucks or has fucked. Rather than fixing her friendship with Cassie, finding people like boomer, you know original people and she has proven she doesn't get along with normal folk outside of saving them and I see no reason she should be forced to.

Not to mention make her title be about fearing and needing him over her growing as a character, making mistakes, learning from them, being an individual and actually doing things people her age would do like have friends over to watch tv and movies or go out dancing during her down time.

I have no friggin doubt that Kara will be fucked up by being force feed some ridculous secret id so she can hang with the humans. You know rather than writers actually showing they can be creative and write a solid hero who doesn't need one without one.

That's one giant contradiction as the only way she can go out and do normal things is if she has a secret id, because it's kinda hard to do "things people her age would do" when you're wearing the most famous symbol in the universe or people know you're Superman's cousin. Not to mention "people her age" are minors and under adult supervision, which means more Superman. Has anyone considered that Superman's constant presence is somewhat necessary because Kara is teenager and a minor? Something they might have failed to take into account when they rebooted her. A good model for this book in the future should be Robin. An underage hero who can work on his own, but the Batman and his cast show up pretty regularly, because there is no Robin without Batman and there is no Supergirl without Superman.

Boy am I glad Loeb, Rucka, and Kelly aren't touching this book anymore. I'll take boring over boring and awful any day of the week.

Heh. I've been saying the opposite, that the only thing worse than just being bad is bad and boring. It's like being trapped in traffic (Kelly) as opposed to trapped in traffic and there's an car on fire (Loeb and Rucka), but it's all bad. Kelly jokingly said that he only took this book because no one else wanted it. I'm beginning to think he was more truthful than we initially realized. And if James Robinson's first issue of Superman was an indication, he's going to be no help whatsoever because it was awful. Maybe they should just cancel it and let her join a team. I like Tony Bedard's work. Maybe she could be a Bird of Prey.

[Jack Zodiac]

Hmmm...too bad those 'horrible' runs were the highest sellers ever :wink: .

Because we all know, sales equal quality. That's why the glut of Avengers and X-titles are clogging the sales chart. Because they're so well-written.

Heh. I've been saying the opposite, that the only thing worse than just being bad is bad and boring. It's like being trapped in traffic (Kelly) as opposed to trapped in traffic and there's an car on fire (Loeb and Rucka), but it's all bad. Kelly jokingly said that he only took this book because no one else wanted it. I'm beginning to think he was more truthful than we initially realized. And if James Robinson's first issue of Superman was an indication, he's going to be no help whatsoever because it was awful. Maybe they should just cancel it and let her join a team. I like Tony Bedard's work. Maybe she could be a Bird of Prey.

Yeah, that was a pretty bad first issue with some awful dialogue on his part. I really hope the next one comes across better. And I hope his editor stops being a wuss and starts calling him on stuff. That's the problem with big name creators working on flagship titles, their editors seem to just trust them too much, when I'd say the vets are the ones who need to be reined in even more. That's why I'm skeptical of pretty new talent like this new guy, Gate, because these editors gotta get paid to edit something, right? And they certainly aren't doing it with a lot of titles with writers like Johns and Winick and Morrison, so they must be wasting time on the newbies.

As for Supergirl on a team book, I'd rather see her show up in Teen Titans some more. I'd also like to see that title stop being a massive depressionfest, but hey, what the hell are ya' gonna do? Hopefully this new status quo of Superbooks brings in more sales and readers and this book won't have to be canned.

[Mia]

Because we all know, sales equal quality. That's why the glut of Avengers and X-titles are clogging the sales chart. Because they're so well-written..

Obviously they're 'clogging' up the sales chart because they contain stories and characterisations that the majority of readers like to read and enjoy.


Besides if most readers simply wanted 'quality' (which is a subjective term depending on the reader). They'd stick to reading Shakespeare, Dickens and Camus, and sure as hell wouldn't be reading comic books.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it's bad.

[DarkCrisis]

Yea this book has sucked for a long time now.

She needs a supporting cast and off doing her own thing.

The "I dont know who I am and don't know what to do" thing has been driven into the ground.

I was excited when Kara was coming back but now, I'd rather have PADs Linda back.

[Jack Zodiac]

Obviously they're 'clogging' up the sales chart because they contain stories and characterisations that the majority of readers like to read and enjoy.

There's an objective quality to be measured in any product, and almost one hundred percent of the time, popularity or financial success doesn't provide any basis of objectivity. Music, television, movies, novels, and of course, comic books.

Besides if most readers simply wanted 'quality' (which is a subjective term depending on the reader). They'd stick to reading Shakespeare, Dickens and Camus, and sure as hell wouldn't be reading comic books.

Or they could stop reading crappy comics and start reading comics that aren't about big, muscly men in colorful tights beating up other big, muscly men in colorful tights. Comic books are as valid a literary form as novels or plays.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it's bad.

Yes. Yes it does.

[The Batman]

Besides if most readers simply wanted 'quality' (which is a subjective term depending on the reader). They'd stick to reading Shakespeare, Dickens and Camus, and sure as hell wouldn't be reading comic books.

You know, I don't think the "it's just comic books" excuse gets to work anymore. Supergirl might not ranke with Oliver Twist but it doesn't mean it's okay for it to suck. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it sounds an awful lot like it.

As for the new team, who knows? The only thing that is for sure is that the stories will look good. (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080630-JamalSupergirl.html)

[Jack Zodiac]

You know, I don't think the "it's just comic books" excuse gets to work anymore. Supergirl might not ranke with Oliver Twist but it doesn't mean it's okay for it to suck. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it sounds an awful lot like it.

Supergirl can suck all it wants. There's plenty of great comics out there that don't suck, like Optic Nerve, Love and Rockets, Transmetropolitan, Black Hole, Fun Home, plenty of books that I'd consider better than some of the best prose.

[Mia]

There's an objective quality to be measured in any product, and almost one hundred percent of the time, popularity or financial success doesn't provide any basis of objectivity. Music, television, movies, novels, and of course, comic books. .

And the objective quality, or standard what have you is in the eye of the reader and the beholder. However that still does not negate my point that comic books are produced and sold based on what a general audience wants to read and what the market supports.





Or they could stop reading crappy comics and start reading comics that aren't about big, muscly men in colorful tights beating up other big, muscly men in colorful tights. Comic books are as valid a literary form as novels or plays.
.

Of course comic books are a valid literary art form. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. If most readers want quality or to read high brow literarture they would be reading Shakepeare, Camus or Dickens. Or they would demand the version of those authors in a comic book narrative. But seeing that there has been no demand for those writers in the market place, then it says that comic book readers have no desire to read about them.



Yes. Yes it does.

Uh no it doesn’t. Sorry to disapoint, but your own personal tastes don’t speak for the majority and are certainly not universal.

[Jack Zodiac]

And the objective quality, or standard what have you is in the eye of the reader and the beholder. However that still does not negate my point that comic books are produced and sold based on what a general audience wants to read and what the market supports.

No, actually, objectivity flies in the face of what you're saying there. What you're describing is subjective quality, what readers like, not what it objectively good about a product.

Of course comic books are a valid literary art form. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. If most readers want quality or to read high brow literarture they would be reading Shakepeare, Camus or Dickens. Or they would demand the version of those authors in a comic book narrative. But seeing that there has been no demand for those writers in the market place, then it says that comic book readers have no desire to read about them.

Wrong. You're arguing for superhero comics, whether you mean to or not. One of the highest-selling comic books to date has been Jeff Smith's Bone, several million copies worldwide. Two years ago, Time's "book of the year," and I'd like to note book, not comic book, was Alison Bechdel's Fun Home. A comic book took an award from a prose category. The Sandman #19 won the World Fantasy Award for "Best Short Fiction" in 1991. They had to change the rules the next day to make sure a comic book would never win that award again.

Superhero comics are not the only market for comic books. Readers of superhero comics generally do not want anything more highbrow than, say, Supergirl or X-Factor, but plenty of comic fans enjoy reading books that are much, much better.

Uh no it doesn’t. Sorry to disapoint, but your own personal tastes don’t speak for the majority and are certainly not universal.

Nope. Sorry. It's tough to get used to at first, but it's better to just accept it. If I don't like it, it sucks.

[Mia]

You know, I don't think the "it's just comic books" excuse gets to work anymore. Supergirl might not ranke with Oliver Twist but it doesn't mean it's okay for it to suck. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it sounds an awful lot like it.

As for the new team, who knows? The only thing that is for sure is that the stories will look good. (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080630-JamalSupergirl.html)


No I never said that it was okay for Supergirl to 'suck'. If I did I would have been content with the current creative team. But the fact of the matter is the book has plunged by 20K units. In little over a year. I hardly think that if there was even a semblance of quality or if people had enjoyed it sales would have remained stable.

[The Batman]

Supergirl can suck all it wants. There's plenty of great comics out there that don't suck, like Optic Nerve, Love and Rockets, Transmetropolitan, Black Hole, Fun Home, plenty of books that I'd consider better than some of the best prose.

So basically what I said, only with some good recommendations?

[The Batman]

No I never said that it was okay for Supergirl to 'suck'. If I did I would have been content with the current creative team. But the fact of the matter is the book has plunged by 20K units. In little over a year. I hardly think that if there was even a semblance of quality or if people had enjoyed it sales would have remained stable.

That's great, but it's also a different line of thought than the "if people wanted quality they wouldn't be reading comic books" comment you seemed to make that I was referring to.

[Mia]

No, actually, objectivity flies in the face of what you're saying there. What you're describing is subjective quality, what readers like, not what it objectively good about a product..


Turn it whatever way you want to. But I adhere to my point above:

"Comic books are produced and sold based on what a general audience wants to read and what the market supports. "

And I stick by it.




Wrong. You're arguing for superhero comics, whether you mean to or not. One of the highest-selling comic books to date has been Jeff Smith's Bone, several million copies worldwide. Two years ago, Time's "book of the year," and I'd like to note book, not comic book, was Alison Bechdel's Fun Home. A comic book took an award from a prose category. The Sandman #19 won the World Fantasy Award for "Best Short Fiction" in 1991. They had to change the rules the next day to make sure a comic book would never win that award again.

Sorry but you're wrong. My argument, is based on what the market supports and what the majority of fans want to read. That's what is has always been.






Superhero comics are not the only market for comic books. Readers of superhero comics generally do not want anything more highbrow than, say, Supergirl or X-Factor, but plenty of comic fans enjoy reading books that are much, much better..

Thank you for making my point. I have eclectic tastes in reading and they are certainly not limited to superheroes. And I have no doubt that the same holds true for most readers.



Nope. Sorry. It's tough to get used to at first, but it's better to just accept it. If I don't like it, it sucks.

Naw, I just prefer to accept it for what it is. Narcisism:wink:

[Mia]

That's great, but it's also a different line of thought than the "if people wanted quality they wouldn't be reading comic books" comment you seemed to make that I was referring to.

Sorry, I thought that you would have gotten the term 'quality'. In quotes which was a ephemism for books that did belong to superhero comics or comics in general.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

... Sorry to further derail this topic, but seriously, one day I want to write a superhero comic that can be considered a great piece of literature... I don't want to believe that the genre is inherently flawed to the point where no high-brow stories can be created.

Maybe it's because I love the genre so much, but I want to create superheroes stories that can garner acclaim like stories like Bone and Fun Home and many Vertigo books do... I don't think it's impossible, but it'll definite take some hard work. Work I'm willing to accomplish...

Back on topic (sorry for the sappy moment), I'm kinda not happy about this. I mean, Supergirl, as a title, and a character, has gotten so many chances to become universally loved like DC wants her to be. Way more than practically any non-Big 7 character (heck, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman were never such a high priority).

It annoys me that many other characters, like Stargirl, Zatanna, Batgirl, Power Girl, Blue Beetle III, Simon Dark, etc., aren't given so much attention (like their books NEED to be good, like how they are treating the Supergirl title). I mean, they are all very marketable characters too, why not push them?

It's frustrating to see a character who has been pushed over and over again, with not much success, keep on getting more and more attention while others aren't being given the light of day.

I mean, it seems like editorial couldn't give a hoot about Blue Beetle, or Simon Dark, they only care about the upcoming Zatanna ongoing because Dini is on it, the writers of the upcoming PG title are the only ones talking about it, and Batgirl was practically ruined by editorial, and the only way to "fix" it, instead of giving her back her title, or something around that range, is by letting the person who ruined her in the first place a second chance to "finish the job" .

But when Supergirl is brought up, people like Johns and Waid and practically every DC writer and editor are like "Oh, we're gonna make the title better than ever. Oh, everyone will love her now. " and such.

It bothers me, that's all.

[Mia]

... Sorry to further derail this topic, but seriously, one day I want to write a superhero comic that can be considered a great piece of literature... I don't want to believe that the genre is inherently flawed to the point where no high-brow stories can be created.

Maybe it's because I love the genre so much, but I want to create superheroes stories that can garner acclaim like stories like Bone and Fun Home and many Vertigo books do... I don't think it's impossible, but it'll definite take some hard work. Work I'm willing to accomplish...

Back on topic (sorry for the sappy moment), I'm kinda not happy about this. I mean, Supergirl, as a title, and a character, has gotten so many chances to become universally loved like DC wants her to be. Way more than practically any non-Big 7 character (heck, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman were never such a high priority).


Awards are nice. However it still is a matter of someone (usually a handful of people's) opinion. And more often than not 'office politics' factor into it. Sometimes things will not be considered due to the 'snob' factor--and the fact that it appeals to a general or mass audience. So I take the notion that a book/movie is good due to the fact that it was given an award by some pannel, with a huge grain of salt.

Normally I will decide to see a film based on the reviews it gains from the reviews on Amazon. Or I will pick up a comic book due to the opinions I read on threads from various fans.

[WorstThingUS]

And here are the sales figures...

SUPERGIRL #17 --50,429
SUPERGIRL #18---50,279
SUPERGIRL #19---48,576 *End of Kelley's Run
SUPERGIRL #20 (AA)---46,862
SUPERGIRL #29----30,192--Sales as of May


I don't know about you but that pretty much tells me that the current changes haven't really gone over very well with the majority of readers. The first rule of business is to make money and that can only be done by giving the readers what they want. Most readers want to read about a formidable Supergirl who is her own person. Not Pollyanna.

Be careful how you throw around numbers because both Bruce Jones and Devin Grayson sold better on Nightwing than Marv Wolfman and I think we know it's better they not be on the book ever again than him.

[The Batman]

Sorry, I thought that you would have gotten the term 'quality'. In quotes which was a ephemism for books that did belong to superhero comics or comics in general.


Yeah, it didn't read that way at all.

[Johnny_Luck]

That's one giant contradiction as the only way she can go out and do normal things is if she has a secret id, because it's kinda hard to do "things people her age would do" when you're wearing the most famous symbol in the universe or people know you're Superman's cousin.

Not a contradiction at all. Famous sports players, Actors, Actresses, pro wrestlers, yeah they are very well known and have photos taken of them and are asked for autographs all the time. They do however manage to regularly go out to eat, go shopping, go dancing, go bowling whatever without hiding themselves and pretending to be someone they are not just to go and do those things.

Are we to believe real people are capable of it all the time, but writers cannot put the effort into making it more realistic and doing it with heroes who are not even real to begin with.

I think its completely retarded that supergirl and other heroes should be forced to create people who they are not just to hang with us humans, they should be able to be themselves. Otherwise it makes us look like selfish aholes who they shouldn't even be saving let alone friends with if we cannot accept them for who they are.


Not to mention "people her age" are minors and under adult supervision, which means more Superman. Has anyone considered that Superman's constant presence is somewhat necessary because Kara is teenager and a minor?

There are plenty of healthy, strong independent people who grow up without parents raising themselves. Not every single person on earth has adult supervision while growing up and more then plenty of them end up being better adults than the people who are actually adult aged.The first 18 issues showed Kara was doing fine by herself. Sure she had her problems and made mistakes but she learned from them.

Now while I really don't care to see superman in her book at all period, him appearing one or two issues every 20 or so issue3s I would have no problem with, but with her book becoming more about him making her his bimbo boneless bitch, then helping her become a strong, confident hero.

She was much better when she had her independence.

[WorstThingUS]

Not a contradiction at all. Famous sports players, Actors, Actresses, pro wrestlers, yeah they are very well known and have photos taken of them and are asked for autographs all the time. They do however manage to regularly go out to eat, go shopping, go dancing, go bowling whatever without hiding themselves and pretending to be someone they are not just to go and do those things.

Are we to believe real people are capable of it all the time, but writers cannot put the effort into making it more realistic and doing it with heroes who are not even real to begin with.

At his peak and before the child scandals, Michael Jackson could not go out in public without a disguise or he'd be mobbed. And even when celebs do go our for "normal" things they are surrounded by fans and the press and what's normal about that?

I think its completely retarded that supergirl and other heroes should be forced to create people who they are not just to hang with us humans, they should be able to be themselves. Otherwise it makes us look like selfish aholes who they shouldn't even be saving let alone friends with if we cannot accept them for who they are.

You do realize that the costume is the false identity, right? There was Clark before Superman, Bruce before Batman, etc. Very few showed up as superheroes first. And even she was Kara before she was Supergirl. Everyone is a person first.

There are plenty of healthy, strong independent people who grow up without parents raising themselves. Not every single person on earth has adult supervision while growing up and more then plenty of them end up being better adults than the people who are actually adult aged.The first 18 issues showed Kara was doing fine by herself. Sure she had her problems and made mistakes but she learned from them.

Aside from being a complete load of crap, Kara didn't "raise herself." She had two normal, loving parents for 17 years, but this still doesn't make her an adult or capable of assuming the responsibilities of one, especially in the wake of losing everything she knew. She went from a life of total stability to one of utter unpredictability. Without some sort of a stable foundation, she's going to fall apart. Not ot mention, Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are legal adults and have been so for years. How much competent maturity do you see there?

[Jack Zodiac]

Sorry but you're wrong. My argument, is based on what the market supports and what the majority of fans want to read. That's what is has always been.

The direct market. Meaning superhero comics, again. Bone doesn't sell in the millions thanks to the direct market, and Fun Home wasn't even distributed by Diamond. Once again, superhero fans do not make up the entirety of comic readers, thankfully.

Thank you for making my point. I have eclectic tastes in reading and they are certainly not limited to superheroes. And I have no doubt that the same holds true for most readers.

Your point? You've been arguing the direct market- superheroes- this whole time. My point was, the shit that sells is often the worst stuff out there, the superhero stuff. The stuff that doesn't, but the stuff that gets more critical acclaim and most of the awards, is the small press stuff that's as far removed from spandex and superpowers as possible. And the "pretentious, office politics, elitist minority" stuff is crap people who read crappy comics say to keep from feeling bad about reading crappy comics.

Naw, I just prefer to accept it for what it is. Narcisism:wink:

It's elitism, which sounds much cooler than narcissism.

[Mia]

The direct market. Meaning superhero comics, again. Bone doesn't sell in the millions thanks to the direct market, and Fun Home wasn't even distributed by Diamond. Once again, superhero fans do not make up the entirety of comic readers, thankfully. Your point? You've been arguing the direct market- superheroes- this whole time. My point was, the shit that sells is often the worst stuff out there, the superhero stuff.



My point is what it has always been (which I've posted several times), The books which sell are the ones which are enjoyed and loved by a majority of the fans.


All the books that you mentioned above are available in comic book shops (I’ve seen them prominently displayed). If there was an appetite for them, there would be a demand for them and they would sell better. That’s basic economics.

If there were a large appetite for them there would be a greater demand for them and they would sell better. And they aren't. Just because they’ve gotten awards mean squat. Like I said in my post above, there are several reasons for books/movies or whatever get awards and not all of them have to do with quality





The stuff that doesn't, but the stuff that gets more critical acclaim and most of the awards, is the small press stuff that's as far removed from spandex and superpowers as possible. And the "pretentious, office politics, elitist minority" stuff is crap people who read crappy comics say to keep from feeling bad about reading crappy comics.

No it’s an argument put forward by people who are in denial that awards are given out for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work and to justify their own conceit and snobbery towards the reading tastes of the masses.




It's elitism, which sounds much cooler than narcissism.

No go with pretentious, that's far more apropos. :wink:

[Mia]

Be careful how you throw around numbers because both Bruce Jones and Devin Grayson sold better on Nightwing than Marv Wolfman and I think we know it's better they not be on the book ever again than him.


The sales numbers of Bruce Jones run was attritubuted to the whole year one kick off--which spiked the sales of most DC books.But as the story went on sales began to plummett. And readers never came back for Marv Wolfman (not that it was really worth returning for.


And Devin Grayson's sales plummetted after she took over from Chuck Dixon and only started to rise to the mid 30's towards the end of her run. But on average her sales were around 30K. A marked decline for where they had been under Chuck Dixon.


Tony Beddard and then Kelly Puckett came on Supergirl after Joe Kelley when sales on the book had tappered off at around 50K per month. And the book has lost 20K in less than a year.

[KET]

The direct market. Meaning superhero comics, again. Bone doesn't sell in the millions thanks to the direct market, and Fun Home wasn't even distributed by Diamond. Once again, superhero fans do not make up the entirety of comic readers, thankfully.

Indeed, but what does any of this have to do with the continuing dwindling sales on yet another corporate superhero property? :biggrin:


SUPERGIRL is mostly being kept on life support because of the character's licensing potential, because it sure ISN'T because her continued existence has been interesting. The DCU has PLENTY of other super-blondes flying around with arguably more engaging backstories.

[suttercain]

Let's hope that this new creative team can work out the kinks in Supergirl. :rolleyes:

Good luck. This series started of pretty good in Superman/Batman and even the early issues of Supergirl, but it's been soooo bad for a long while now, I don't know how they can recover. As soon as my subscription is up, in two months, I won't be reading it anymore.

Worst DC Title Out Right Now.

[WorstThingUS]

The sales numbers of Bruce Jones run was attritubuted to the whole year one kick off--which spiked the sales of most DC books.But as the story went on sales began to plummett. And readers never came back for Marv Wolfman (not that it was really worth returning for.

Bruce Jones started at 42,500 and ended at 40,000. Hardly a "plummet." Marv Wolfman, however, started at 38,200 and ended at 28,330, so he actually lost a helluva lot more than Jones, but I don't think anyone will every argue Jones was better on the book or better for the character. So again, throwing numbers around to support character interpretation isn't the way to go.

[md62]

Sounds interesting enough to give this title another try.

[drpblunt]

Sorry but you're wrong. My argument, is based on what the market supports and what the majority of fans want to read. That's what is has always been.

so, are you a market analyst at DC??

Comics are not often tailored to what fans want so much as what the internal fan boy editorial staff at whatever company wants then tells the rest of the comic buying public that their "doing it for the fans"

OMD-BND is the best current example, and DC's many missteps with the CoIE that were made strictly by editorial.

and Supergirls flagging sales??

there aren't many readers that will put up with revolving door creative teams and thats what doomed the book, not the fans.

[drpblunt]

Oh and one more thing.

as far as I remember there was a huge Fanbase for the PAD developed supergirl but DC decided to get rid of her for Kara and never bothered to plan and develope her because in truth they just thought the "character would sell" as is.

and what was so great about Loebs run? as far as I remember all she did was tour the DCU and twat people, 1st issue fight with PG and JSA, next the Outsiders and so on, but no character development and what little time used to develope her character just made her britney spears in a SG outfit, if thats fun for some thats kool, but for me I want a lil meat with my story.

[cpahl2000]

There is a new interview with Sterling Gates about his upcommig Supergirl run.



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