Cable 5 Preview

[streator]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=609&disp=table

the baby's eyes see the fire in an interesting way.

also, have they explained how bishop has these new powers? lifting trucks, breaking bones, etc. is the arm he took from forge responsible?

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

Bishop always had the power to enhance his own physical power with the energy he absorbs, and like Apocalypse himself stated , he absorbs ALL energies, which is why he is immune to even psychic probing, like when the Cuckoos tried to read his mind in Murder at the Mansion.

[timbox]

The arm is also some type of nuclear powered combat arm from the description on the plaque where he took it from Forge's garage. So it probably adds something besides just time travel and tentacle rape.

[Pro]

Bishop always had the power to enhance his own physical power with the energy he absorbs, and like Apocalypse himself stated , he absorbs ALL energies, which is why he is immune to even psychic probing, like when the Cuckoos tried to read his mind in Murder at the Mansion.

Well that was a pointless statement because clearly he is not enhancing his own physical power in that preview. He is using something akin to telekinesis, which is something i;ve never seen him do ever.
He's never absorbed psychic energy and used it to do psychic powertricks, or absorb heat and redirect it as heat, or absorb sound vibrations and redirect it as a sound attack. He just absorbs energy and directs it as a general type of energy beam.

[psycwave]

Every character in this book(except BIshop) needs to die especially the Phoenix fire seeing baby...

[streator]

Well that was a pointless statement because clearly he is not enhancing his own physical power in that preview. He is using something akin to telekinesis, which is something i;ve never seen him do ever.
He's never absorbed psychic energy and used it to do psychic powertricks, or absorb heat and redirect it as heat, or absorb sound vibrations and redirect it as a sound attack. He just absorbs energy and directs it as a general type of energy beam.

yeah. i've always seen him rechannel energies that he absorbs in generic blasts or through his weaponry. what i've seen him do here does seem like telekinesis, which he doesn't have (unless the arm somehow provides it).

edit: also, isn't this at least the second time they've shown the phoenix in the baby's eyes? i swear i remember seeing it before in messiah complex or something.

[frog]

Every character in this book(except BIshop) needs to die especially the Phoenix fire seeing baby...

Face facts, people. What does a phoenix do?

It comes back from the dead.

Over and over and over and over and over and over . . .

[Askani's Flame]

Bishop's powers are ridiculous in this book. He has never been able to do the s%&t he's doing here. The arm shouldn't be able to give him all of these stupid new powers. I understand the tentacles and stronger and other bits, but he is an energy channeller. He absorbs energy attacks, fuels his powers and rechannels them back as energy blasts. No TK. No magnetism. I am really disliking this book more and more.

[frog]

edit: also, isn't this at least the second time they've shown the phoenix in the baby's eyes? i swear i remember seeing it before in messiah complex or something.

I recall seeing it before as well. I can't remember when.

[RafiShai]

Is Marvel still claiming that the baby isn't Jean/Rachel?

I mean, it's just ANOTHER red headed, green eyed baby girl - who sees Phoenix raptors in a normal, daily blast of flames. That's VERY common, it could definitely by anyone other than Jean/Rachel....

:rolleyes:

One thing Marvel has done perfectly is turning Bishop into a villain, and they just keep making him more and more of a bastard.

[Pro]

edit: also, isn't this at least the second time they've shown the phoenix in the baby's eyes? i swear i remember seeing it before in messiah complex or something.

There was i think. I also think Joe Q is a lying twat and the baby actually is Jean despite everything they've claimed so far. Really what else would be the point of these blantantly obvious clues?

[HeckBoy]

Geez, Bishop just gets more and more bastardly. It's weird how he's been made into a villain so readily. I know Marvel has been "rationalizing" his behavior by saying that he's trying to save the future, blah, blah, blah, that but there really isn't any sympathy for his PoV.

[LawGiver]

Didn't Marvel claim that Cable would be linking up with the main X-Verse soon? Maybe the way it happens is the baby transforms into Jean and this fire in the eye is the first sign of her awakening?

[bluedmighty]

This has just gone from bad to CRAZY.

THIS is what they have to do in order to make it seem like Bishop can compete with Cable (iamjesus) Grey.

They have to make up powers for him so that we feel bad for Cable and a sense of reward when Cable finally overcomes and whips his Evil, backstabbing, baby killing ass :rolleyes:

I'll stick to spoilers and reviews while my wallet takes a break from this one.

[Pro]

Geez, Bishop just gets more and more bastardly. It's weird how he's been made into a villain so readily. I know Marvel has been "rationalizing" his behavior by saying that he's trying to save the future, blah, blah, blah, that but there really isn't any sympathy for his PoV.

Bishop's blatant disregard for life cannot be justified as a POV. He's a bastard, plain and simple.

[Rick Summers]

Could Bishop be displaying a secondary mutation? Are those still in vogue?

[rage6839]

Both Cable and Bishop have crossed lines they thought they’d never cross. There’s no going back now.

What line has Cable crossed exactly? Has he killed any X-Men lately?

I thought when Bishop lifted a semi in an earlier issue, it was because of the arm. But now, it seems he has full blown tk and the knowledge of a pro on how to use it. The arc is not over yet but some things need to be fleshed out or this book goes bye-bye.

[darknessatnoon]

What line has Cable crossed exactly? Has he killed any X-Men lately?


He killed Cannonball, the Collaborator, last issue.

Bishop is going to kick Cable's ass and smear that red-headed step child all over the sidewalk.

YAY!

[LawGiver]

Bishop's blatant disregard for life cannot be justified as a POV. He's a bastard, plain and simple.

His whole reason to do this is to save a million lives. How is trying to save a million lives a blatant disregard for life?

[rage6839]

He killed Cannonball, the Collaborator, last issue.

Bishop is going to kick Cable's ass and smear that red-headed step child all over the sidewalk.

YAY!

Bishop killed Cannonball, not Cable. What line has Cable crossed?

[darknessatnoon]

Bishop killed Cannonball, not Cable. What line has Cable crossed?

oops, sorry. misread. Cable is aiding and abetting a murderous baby. That's across the line.

[DeadXMan]

ReturnOfTheComeback may have something here
The arm is nuclar power
nukes give off radiation
radation is a form of energy
Bishop absorbs energy

so maybe the constint aborbtion is effecting his mind
and the armor plated chest holder for the kid rules

[rage6839]

oops, sorry. misread. Cable is aiding and abetting a murderous baby. That's across the line.

OK, I can get behind that :wink: . The baby must die!!

[Hi-Fi]

The baby saved Rogue when Mystique TOSSED her into her daughter's face, though. I OWE her.

[timbox]

The baby has our best intentions in mind. The baby is one of us, one of us.

[LawGiver]

The baby has our best intentions in mind. The baby is one of us, one of us.

I disagree, I'm on the fence here. If the kid is responsible/cause of 1,000,000 people dying, I could see justification for killing it.

[DeadXMan]

the kid must live
She and Madiox son shall save us

[timbox]

I disagree, I'm on the fence here. If the kid is responsible/cause of 1,000,000 people dying, I could see justification for killing it.

I am very confused by your position on this matter. Disagree or be on the fence! Not both!

Also, 1,000,000 lives was established as the bare minimum requirement for justification. Do you really feel that is enough, or are you simply checking boxes?

[DeadXMan]

I disagree, I'm on the fence here. If the kid is responsible/cause of 1,000,000 people dying, I could see justification for killing it.

let's wait till the other dupe comes back before we start bickering on who killed who.

[LawGiver]

I am very confused by your position on this matter. Disagree or be on the fence! Not both!

Also, 1,000,000 lives was established as the bare minimum requirement for justification. Do you really feel that is enough, or are you simply checking boxes?

I was disagree on the absolution of your statement.

I think less is required for justification of murder, but I presume to be in the minority on that area.

let's wait till the other dupe comes back before we start bickering on who killed who.

I was not bickering friendo. Just simply saying, according to one party she is responsible for the death of a million. Surely he's not lying. I could see him being wrong if it was say 1 person, but a million people? I think the cause of death would be pretty simple to find on that many folks.

[Askani's Flame]

ReturnOfTheComeback may have something here
The arm is nuclar power
nukes give off radiation
radation is a form of energy
Bishop absorbs energy

so maybe the constint aborbtion is effecting his mind
and the armor plated chest holder for the kid rules

I could almost buy that, but why then did Bishop need the other guys to beat him in order to power up a couple issues ago. I just think they have no clue about Bishop and his abilities.

[darknessatnoon]

I was not bickering friendo. Just simply saying, according to one party she is responsible for the death of a million. Surely he's not lying. I could see him being wrong if it was say 1 person, but a million people? I think the cause of death would be pretty simple to find on that many folks.

Of course, you aren't bickering. deadXman is just a drama queen. I wouldn't pay any attention.

[timbox]

1,000,000 is the minimum cut-off, it's canon, as shown here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6975520&postcount=59).

If the baby was given to Magneto to be raised properly, perhaps the correct million people could be killed, instead of just a random million. Then the baby would not have to be murdered for her future crimes.

[darknessatnoon]

1,000,000 is the minimum cut-off, it's canon, as shown here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6975520&postcount=59).

If the baby was given to Magneto to be raised properly, perhaps the correct million people could be killed, instead of just a random million. Then the baby would not have to be murdered for her future crimes.

Magneto would be a good parent. He would teach it to discern whether a carrot is a fruit or vegetable.

[frog]

Magneto would be a good parent. He would teach it to discern whether a carrot is a fruit of vegetable.

But imagine the horror if she grew up to say "no more veggies".

[darknessatnoon]

But imagine the horror if she grew up to say "no more veggies".

All the Acolytes would be wiped out of existence.

[frog]

All the Acolytes would be wiped out of existence.

That's cold!

[DeadXMan]

I was disagree on the absolution of your statement.

I think less is required for justification of murder, but I presume to be in the minority on that area.



I was not bickering friendo. Just simply saying, according to one party she is responsible for the death of a million. Surely he's not lying. I could see him being wrong if it was say 1 person, but a million people? I think the cause of death would be pretty simple to find on that many folks.

ok you missed the monty python referance

in bishop's timeline she murderd 1,000,000
but in Cable's time line she might of saved a 1,000,000

[LawGiver]

ok you missed the monty python referance

in bishop's timeline she murderd 1,000,000
but in Cable's time line she might of saved a 1,000,000

Ah, I've only seen one Monty Python movie, so yea, my bad.

[Beast]

Bishop's blatant disregard for life cannot be justified as a POV. He's a bastard, plain and simple.
Agreed.

No matter how many times Marvel says he's justified in what he's doing.... he's still a complete A-Hole. I didn't think he could get more 'Evil' after his actions in Messiah Complex, but when he murdered future Cannonball by tearing his heart out.... yeah. Someone put a bullet in his head.

[timbox]

Agreed.

No matter how many times Marvel says he's justified in what he's doing.... he's still a complete A-Hole. I didn't think he could get more 'Evil', but when he murdered future Cannonball by tearing his heart out.... yeah. Someone put a bullet in his head.

It's like the movie Groundhog Day. Bill Murray is able to kidnap Punxsutawney Phil and drive off a cliff completely guilt free, because when he wakes up the next morning, it never happened. Is Bill Murray evil? Of course not, he saved New York from a ghost invasion.

Same thing goes for Bishop whenever he fixes this whacked out alternate future.

[metalgorgomon]

With the way Bishop killing people in this series, it won't take a long time until his victims hits 1,000,000. Yeah.. it might be because of the baby, but Bishop might as well doing the job himself..

[Affinity]

Whaaaaat? Where is Bishop using telekinesis?

It's just another little energy laser ray trick. He's not picking them up and throwing them around, and I see the little laser too. Erf.

[HeckBoy]

With the way Bishop killing people in this series, it won't take a long time until his victims hits 1,000,000. Yeah.. it might be because of the baby, but Bishop might as well doing the job himself..Wouldn't that be ironic if Bishop was the reason for those 1 million dying because of [him trying to kill] the baby.

[DeadXMan]

Whaaaaat? Where is Bishop using telekinesis?

It's just another little energy laser ray trick. He's not picking them up and throwing them around, and I see the little laser too. Erf.

I think it he was using his powers in pinpoint locations to break thier bones

the artist is not suited for this book

[Askani's Flame]

Whaaaaat? Where is Bishop using telekinesis?

It's just another little energy laser ray trick. He's not picking them up and throwing them around, and I see the little laser too. Erf.

While it looks like a laser at first glance, a laser can't bend & break someone's neck. The energy display is what you're referring to as the "energy laser ray trick", and it's coming from his normal arm. So to me this is supposed to reflect his powerset, which is not to break necks and legs/ankles by pointing at them or have lasers from his normal arm. If so, show the whole display going from his arm to the guys bones.

[RafiShai]

I love it how people can just easily defend Bishop's murder spree by saying that 'The baby will cause the death of millions!!!!!!!!!!111!!'. First of all, it should be - the baby will supposedly cause the death of millions. There's no guarantee that it will or it won't. This is especially enhanced in a place like the Marvel Universe, where time travel and temporal anomalies are an unusual thing.

In Bishop's reality, the baby caused the death of millions. Who ever said that the 616's future will be the same as Bishop's? All it takes it the tiniest of changes for the future to completely change. Hasn't bishop ever heard of the butterfly effect? I'm pretty sure he has, but in his head he's just going 'LA LA LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!'. It is much like most ethical problems that relate to genetics. If you find, in a fetus, the genes that might give him a fatal disease at the age of forty - do you kill it to prevent its suffering? First of all, it doesn't HAVE to mean that he will become ill, you can never tell! And even if it is certain, that child could be a genius or great artist and achieve so much in those years that he is alive. Do you still have the right to kill him?
It may not align perfectly, but it fits this whole situation in my head.

Bishop is doing right now what he believes is the truth, but to me - he's just a madman on a murder spree; and Marvel is doing it really easy to hate him as a villain.

[DeadXMan]

I love it how people can just easily defend Bishop's murder spree by saying that 'The baby will cause the death of millions!!!!!!!!!!111!!'. First of all, it should be - the baby will supposedly cause the death of millions. There's no guarantee that it will or it won't. This is especially enhanced in a place like the Marvel Universe, where time travel and temporal anomalies are an unusual thing.

In Bishop's reality, the baby caused the death of millions. Who ever said that the 616's future will be the same as Bishop's? All it takes it the tiniest of changes for the future to completely change. Hasn't bishop ever heard of the butterfly effect? I'm pretty sure he has, but in his head he's just going 'LA LA LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!'. It is much like most ethical problems that relate to genetics. If you find, in a fetus, the genes that might give him a fatal disease at the age of forty - do you kill it to prevent its suffering? First of all, it doesn't HAVE to mean that he will become ill, you can never tell! And even if it is certain, that child could be a genius or great artist and achieve so much in those years that he is alive. Do you still have the right to kill him?
It may not align perfectly, but it fits this whole situation in my head.

Bishop is doing right now what he believes is the truth, but to me - he's just a madman on a murder spree; and Marvel is doing it really easy to hate him as a villain.

anit it great? I always thought Bishop would make a good villian.

[psycwave]

I still say that the little red headed reincarnation of that satanic fire bird should become cow paste. BISHOP WAS RIGHT!!!

[jarrod]

Is Marvel still claiming that the baby isn't Jean/Rachel?

I mean, it's just ANOTHER red headed, green eyed baby girl - who sees Phoenix raptors in a normal, daily blast of flames. That's VERY common, it could definitely by anyone other than Jean/Rachel....

:rolleyes:

One thing Marvel has done perfectly is turning Bishop into a villain, and they just keep making him more and more of a bastard.
I hope it's Maddie. <3 <3

[timbox]

I think they should send the baby back in time to be implanted in Bishop's mother's womb. Then the 2 babies could fight it out like little Cassie Nova and Xavier.

[RafiShai]

[QUOTE=RafiShai;7086440]anit it great? I always thought Bishop would make a good villian.

He actually is a very good villain, very dedicated to his cause. Thinking back at how he was introduced to the X-verse, I can't help but think we should've seen it coming, I mean, the first thing he did as an X-Men was try to convince the team that Gambit would betray them in the future.

He was sorta right, but y'know... :biggrin:

[rwsmith]

I was hoping we'd kind of be over the Cable vs. Bishop plot by the end of this issue, but it seems like that is going to continue into Giant-Sized Cable and Cable #7 (where X-Force shows up). I'm skipping Giant-Sized but will get the issues where X-Force shows up. After that, if it's still Cable vs. Bishop in the future I'm out.

[psycwave]

I hope it's Maddie. <3 <3

:eek: The baby must LIVE!!! BISHOP WAS WRONG!!!(Only if its Maddie though)

[DeadXMan]

[QUOTE=DeadXMan;7086448]

He actually is a very good villain, very dedicated to his cause. Thinking back at how he was introduced to the X-verse, I can't help but think we should've seen it coming, I mean, the first thing he did as an X-Men was try to convince the team that Gambit would betray them in the future.

He was sorta right, but y'know... :biggrin:

no the first thing he did was try and kill the x-men thinking they were imposters.
hired by frizroy
When he joined the X-men he tried to convince them Gambit was evil.

[RafiShai]

Heh, I actually forgot about that! Now I really think we should've seen this coming :biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

Heh, I actually forgot about that! Now I really think we should've seen this coming :biggrin:

the X-men arn't known for thier forshaddowing skills.

Look at Ms Raven and Sabertooth.

[MasterOdin]

I would love it if Marvel stayed true to there words and the baby is a whole new character that maybe has the Phoenix inside of her. I would find that more interesting than the alternatives.

[Bingo!]

Wouldn't that be ironic if Bishop was the reason for those 1 million dying because of [him trying to kill] the baby.

Bishop's gone mad trying to capture this baby. He probably does cause the death those million people.

Also, that baby must either be one of the two phoenix hosts reborn: Jean or Rachel.

Edit: or Maddie. shudder!

[Bingo!]

I would love it if Marvel stayed true to there words and the baby is a whole new character that maybe has the Phoenix inside of her. I would find that more interesting than the alternatives.

Maybe the Phoenix force itself, reborn in it's most familiar form?

[jarrod]

Maybe the Phoenix force itself, reborn in it's most familiar form?
That was basically Claremont's original plan for Rachel anyway. With so many Clarmaholics writing the books (Carey, Yost, etc) I kinda wonder if it won't turn out to be 616 Rachel...

[psycwave]

That was basically Claremont's original plan for Rachel anyway. With so many Clarmaholics writing the books (Carey, Yost, etc) I kinda wonder if it won't turn out to be 616 Rachel...

Ugh....i think im going to throw up

[Absolut_Fresh]

Ugh....i think im going to throw up

ill hold your hair back, if you do the same for me! *commense puke fest*

[psycwave]

ill hold your hair back, if you do the same for me! *commense puke fest*

agreed....

[jarrod]

I'll hold Rachel's mullet. <3 <3

[Pro]

His whole reason to do this is to save a million lives. How is trying to save a million lives a blatant disregard for life?

I doubt he does it for the million potential deaths. He does it prevent his own childhood. He does it to prevent seeing his parents die. He does it so he won't be born again. Read the bit in Messiah Complex with young Lucas again. He was not at all interested in saving a million lives. He just tells himself that as justification. His real motivation is far more personal. He's not driven by heroism or nobility, but rather selfishness.

I disagree, I'm on the fence here. If the kid is responsible/cause of 1,000,000 people dying, I could see justification for killing it.

Potentially responsible. And if potential deaths are justification for infanticide how does killing potential future friends and bystanders make Bishop anything but a murderer?
If potential is regarded as absolute certainty then Bishop is likewise absolutely a killer.

[Pro]

Also, that baby must either be one of the two phoenix hosts reborn: Jean or Rachel.

I hope Bri will keep his promise if it turns out to be Jean. :p

[Henry T.]

The preview looks a bit blurred on my computer and the fire in the babies eyes looks like general bird-like shapes...

But in the advanced preview, the lines in the birds wings and tails are more visible and they are definitely Phoenix effects.

I'm still not sure what to think of it. We have this red haired green eyed omega level psychic with Phoenix effects in its eyes who has survived a death touch and is destined to be some sort of Messiah character (for good or bad).

The Messiah Complex Hardcover says that when the baby fiddles with Scott's locket and he has those flashbacks he realizes who the baby really is.

Yet we have rumors that insiders say that originally the baby was Jean but they've since decided that she isn't. Then who the heck is it, why/how is it possible after M-Day, and why does it still have so many Jean attributes?

The Messiah Baby is already being rapidly aged as well. In this issue she crawls over to Cable at one point. She shouldn't be able to hold her head up by herself much less crawl. In an upcoming issue she will already be a Toddler.

So I guess it won't be too long until we find out where they are going with this.

Anyways spoilers for the issue...

The most fun beats from the issue are not about Cable, Bishop, or Messiah Baby but about the waitress. She gets a hold of some guns and goes crazy on some bad guys.

In the end Bishop almost has Cable and Baby but Cable teleports into the future. He can go into the future but not the past.

Last page Cable says that he is a soldier and is trained for anything even caring for a baby. He hands a toy that he made to the baby.

[RafiShai]

Yet we have rumors that insiders say that originally the baby was Jean but they've since decided that she isn't. Then who the heck is it, why/how is it possible after M-Day, and why does it still have so many Jean attributes?

Two words: Rachel Grey.

[psycwave]

Two words: Rachel Grey.

Please stop....im going to vomit again:frown:

[rage6839]

I doubt he does it for the million potential deaths. He does it prevent his own childhood. He does it to prevent seeing his parents die. He does it so he won't be born again. Read the bit in Messiah Complex with young Lucas again. He was not at all interested in saving a million lives. He just tells himself that as justification. His real motivation is far more personal. He's not driven by heroism or nobility, but rather selfishness.



Potentially responsible. And if potential deaths are justification for infanticide how does killing potential future friends and bystanders make Bishop anything but a murderer?
If potential is regarded as absolute certainty then Bishop is likewise absolutely a killer.

See, if Cyke went back and offed baby Sinister, I would not have any problem with it because he has seen what damage old diamond head has caused. Bishop knows the baby has caused a million deaths and must deal with it. By being a policeman in the future, that is how they rolled. He probably thinking its like busting a terrorist plot 6 months to a year in advance. Faulty logic maybe but when you live through enslavement, branding, and mass murder, he should be cut some slack.

[Henry T.]

I just can't believe its Rachel.

Rachel Grey is already around and with a spark of the Phoenix power.

616 Rachel would still have to be birthed from Jean wouldn't she? Or could White Phoenix/Jean birth Rachel meta-physically from the White Hot Room?

Maybe its Maddie, but I don't see them bringing her back either.

If its the Phoenix Force reborn into another green eyed red haired omega psychic thats not Jean/Maddie/Rachel wouldn't that be too convoluted?

If it is just a tease and the baby is a whole brand new character-- then aren't they just creating another character that is just like Jean/Maddie/Rachel in many respects?

Wouldn't that be pointless?

Or will many of the baby's attributes change once the tease is over?

[RafiShai]

Please stop....im going to vomit again:frown:

I'll hold your hair for you?

Think about it, they can turn it into a sitcom! "He's a future soldier, used to hopping through time and space - but how will he handle life when he has to raise the daughter of his father and the woman from whom his mother was cloned?! Babysitting, murder-sprees and time hopping all wrapped up into one bundle of laughter! Tune in for Cable, this Wednesday on ABC."

:confused:

I just can't believe its Rachel.

Rachel Grey is already around and with a spark of the Phoenix power.

616 Rachel would still have to be birthed from Jean wouldn't she? Or could White Phoenix/Jean birth Rachel meta-physically from the White Hot Room?

Maybe its Maddie, but I don't see them bringing her back either.

If its the Phoenix Force reborn into another green eyed red haired omega psychic thats not Jean/Maddie/Rachel wouldn't that be too convoluted?

If it is just a tease and the baby is a whole brand new character-- then aren't they just creating another character that is just like Jean/Maddie/Rachel in many respects?

Wouldn't that be pointless?

Or will many of the baby's attributes change once the tease is over?

My head hurts from reading that, can't we just agree on letting Bishop kill the little trouble maker?

[La Fea]

Not that I really care about Bishop, and despite the fact that I initially thought this was the most interesting place he's ever been----he's really been bastardized huh?? I really just don't buy the bs justification anymore. This dude's villainous. Like Darkholme syndrome.

[Gene M.]

Hmmm.. Looks to have lots of shootey-splodey, so I'll be buying it.

[DeadXMan]

Not that I really care about Bishop, and despite the fact that I initially thought this was the most interesting place he's ever been----he's really been bastardized huh?? I really just don't buy the bs justification anymore. This dude's villainous. Like Darkholme syndrome.

that explanes the bondage/ S&M bit a couple issues ago.
He loves those pontcho guys

[Gene M.]

that explanes the bondage/ S&M bit a couple issues ago.
He loves those pontcho guys
Everyone loves poncho guys!

[DeadXMan]

Damn you,Eastwood for making the Poncho lovible!!
DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Home made ectoplasm]

I wish Brian M was around for this.

[ClanAskani]

I don't think the baby is Jean or Rachel. Mike Carey admitted a while back that a lot of misdirection has been involved with the baby's identity. The baby started with blonde hair and her hair became redder and redder as the speculation built that the baby was Jean.

I think all the "hints" that the baby is Jean or Rachel is all trying to continue the speculation and build further interest in Cable. Look at how much discussion has been created about the new Cable series due to the identity of the baby. Sales are slipping so they add another clue that the baby is Jean.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if this all wasn't market research by Marvel trying to figure out how to bring Jean back and what the audience reaction would be if they did.

[La Fea]

I wish Brian M was around for this.

IF HE WAS I WOULD REFER TO HIM TO THIS QUOTE:

"I did a lot of lying in the promotion of this," Bendis said about an IGN interview that claimed no heroes were Skrulls. "We're lying now," Brevoort added.

But come back Bri.

[Bamf25]

There was i think. I also think Joe Q is a lying twat and the baby actually is Jean despite everything they've claimed so far. Really what else would be the point of these blantantly obvious clues?


And the Fan response to this being Jean will be...

1. Marvel %^%&^ lied to use again, sack Joe Q
2. Cool I knew it
3. Yeah Jean is back
4. I hate this

Let the flame wars begin.

[Bamf25]

I don't think the baby is Jean or Rachel. Mike Carey admitted a while back that a lot of misdirection has been involved with the baby's identity. The baby started with blonde hair and her hair became redder and redder as the speculation built that the baby was Jean.

I think all the "hints" that the baby is Jean or Rachel is all trying to continue the speculation and build further interest in Cable. Look at how much discussion has been created about the new Cable series due to the identity of the baby. Sales are slipping so they add another clue that the baby is Jean.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if this all wasn't market research by Marvel trying to figure out how to bring Jean back and what the audience reaction would be if they did.

This is all most likey true. Cable is doomed to be a short lived series (IMO), and has been plaqued so far by slow storytelling, and very stiff art.

BTW, bringing Jean back as a baby very unoriginal, have they not read Authority with Jenny Sparks, or even when Mags was made a baby for that matter?

[rwsmith]

This is all most likey true. Cable is doomed to be a short lived series (IMO), and has been plaqued so far by slow storytelling, and very stiff art.

BTW, bringing Jean back as a baby very unoriginal, have they not read Authority with Jenny Sparks, or even when Mags was made a baby for that matter?

Agreed on both counts. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but they really dropped the ball on Cable coming out of Messiah Complex. That series put the time-traveling mercenary cyborg front and center in the X-books (along with Cyclops and to a lesser degree Wolverine as leader of X-Force). Then, once the crossover wraps, they just ship him off into the future. :confused:

I'm guessing Marvel was afraid that if they kept Nate around he would steal some of Wolverine's spotlight or something, but would that really be a bad thing? And I say that as one of the bigger Wolverine fans on this board! The guy has so much going on with New Avengers, Secret Invasion, his solo books and all of the X-books he appears in. Surely the X-men could use another "spotlight grabbing badass" character somewhere? Put him in X-Force or Astonishing instead of Wolverine and it could work just fine IMO.

Cable, if done right, would be the ultimate X-man. A one man army with all sorts of weapons (e.g., guns, knives, psimitar, electric batons, grenades, etc.). As it stands now they are playing up the biggest aspect of the character that made me not care about him for the past 15 years or so: time-travel. :rolleyes:

[LawGiver]

I can understand how the baby could be Jean Grey reborn, but what I don't understand is how it could be Rachel? Could someone who is proposing that theory explain a little of the logic behind it.

I personally do not wish for it this Messiah child to be Jean Grey. I believe it weakens and cheapens the effects of Messiah Complex if the kid is just a previous mutant reborn, espically if it's with the aid of the Phoenix Force. The child must be someone new in order to justify this new "faith" Cyclops and Co. are going on regarding the mutant race and it's continuation.

[Pro]

I can understand how the baby could be Jean Grey reborn, but what I don't understand is how it could be Rachel? Could someone who is proposing that theory explain a little of the logic behind it.

Same reason: previous phoenix host. Also Claremont's idea behind Rachel i think was that she was the phoenix born in human form. Hence the reason why whenever CC writes Rachel she is unique in the entire multiverse.

I personally do not wish for it this Messiah child to be Jean Grey. I believe it weakens and cheapens the effects of Messiah Complex if the kid is just a previous mutant reborn, espically if it's with the aid of the Phoenix Force. The child must be someone new in order to justify this new "faith" Cyclops and Co. are going on regarding the mutant race and it's continuation.

I don't see how "just a baby being born" makes sense though without some undisclosed reason given that Scarlett Witch seemed to make it impossible for humans to conceive mutant babies. For that to happen the parents would have to have a latent x-gene which Wanda removed from all but a handfull of mutant.

On the other hand Phoenix being the representation of all life unborn (as mentioned in Excalibur when Phoenix (in Rachel's body) confronts Galactus) would make perfect sense as the harbinger of mutantkind's return, triggering the rebirth of the mutant race by being the first newborn mutant, thus breaking Wanda's curse. If anyone could jumpstart the resurgence of mutant births it would be Wellspring of all Life Unborn (Phoenix).

Not buying for a second it wasn't intended as such even if maybe they changed their minds halfway through MC (and possibly changed their minds again given the phoenix fire reflected in the baby's eyes). On the other hand a random mutant baby born after Wanda seemingly made that impossible to happen doesn't make much sense at all.

[LawGiver]

The child being Jean doesn't represent new mutant life and if I understood the purpose of Messiah Complex it was just that, this is a new mutant life being born, against all odds, against the effects of Wanda's M-Day wish. It defies all odds. Jean being the kid is just simply that, Jean Grey returning, nothing significant about that at all, it's happened before, it'll continue happening. The baby could be a sign that Wanda's spell is permenant, isn't as everlasting as they first assumed. We're going on the assumption that what she did was everlasting, that it was forever, why?

As for Phoenix jumpstarting the mutant species again, I can see it and it would be an easy way out, but I think it's kind of a weak fix. I also don't get your argument that the Phoenix being born, despite what we've read in the texts, makes more sense than a random, new mutant baby.

[frog]

A little tidbit from Newsarama's Marvel Panel:

With the Messiah Complex over, Brevoort wanted the fans to talk about what they think about the X-books. The first fan said “Uncanny is awesome, Cable sucks.” The next agreed, asking about the baby being strapped to his chest, to which Cebulski said it’s a “bulletproof bjorn.” It was confirmed for another fan that the baby’s red hair and green eyes is not a coincidence. That same fan also mentioned his love for Legacy to much agreement.

[LawGiver]

A little tidbit from Newsarama's Marvel Panel:

With the Messiah Complex over, Brevoort wanted the fans to talk about what they think about the X-books. The first fan said “Uncanny is awesome, Cable sucks.” The next agreed, asking about the baby being strapped to his chest, to which Cebulski said it’s a “bulletproof bjorn.” It was confirmed for another fan that the baby’s red hair and green eyes is not a coincidence. That same fan also mentioned his love for Legacy to much agreement.

That's interesting. I wonder how that statement mixes with the constant reply of "Jean Grey is still dead" that we always get. Brubaker and Fraction just said it and I believe it was in one of the recent X-Positions here at CBR that an editor said "Jean Grey is still dead". I wish they would make up their minds and just tell us if the kid is or is not Jean Grey.

[psycwave]

That's interesting. I wonder how that statement mixes with the constant reply of "Jean Grey is still dead" that we always get. Brubaker and Fraction just said it and I believe it was in one of the recent X-Positions here at CBR that an editor said "Jean Grey is still dead". I wish they would make up their minds and just tell us if the kid is or is not Jean Grey.

Jean Grey is dead. the baby can only be MADDIE!!!!!!:biggrin:

[kate-pryde]

The baby being a reborn character negates the Messiah baby being anything more one nominal blip on the radar for mutants. If the baby ends up being Jean, or Rachel for that matter, it makes Messiah Complex and anything related to the baby utterly pointless.

Then the baby's birth doesn't mean more mutants are going to be born. It's no different than the depowered mutants who have been repowered. Unless the Phoenix Force goes around impregnating women with mutants, mutants are doomed to extinction. What hope does that give?

[Pro]

The baby being a reborn character negates the Messiah baby being anything more one nominal blip on the radar for mutants.

The MC baby was never meant to represent a nominal blip on the radar for mutants. It shattered their radar :p. Have you even followed Messiah Complex where the baby is presented as either the solution to saving the mutant race or the end for one million humans? How is that "nothing more than a nominal blip"? Cable traveled with the baby to the future to raise her because he is convinced she is supposed to rescue the mutant race. The mutant race won't be rescued by simple breeding and they wasted 13 chapters of Endangered Species to point out ad nauseam that new mutants being born wouldn't save the mutant race because the mutant race had passed the red line. They have mutant genetic material. 198 mutants with the x-gene. It's not enough. If one more baby would make the difference they could have easily opened up a mutant sperm bank and mix and match to produce dozens of babies in a span of a year. But one more baby, even dozens of more mutant babies won't make the difference.
If the baby isn't assumed to rescue the mutant race why did Cable specifically take this baby to the future to raise her? Is he planning to do so for all mutant babies born in the next couple of decades? Open up a future time mutant creche? Regardless of whether the baby is a reborn character or not it is pretty clear the baby means more than just a nominal blip.

If the baby ends up being Jean, or Rachel for that matter, it makes Messiah Complex and anything related to the baby utterly pointless.

Anything related to the rebirth of the wellspring of all life unborn is utterly pointless? On the other hand the baby being a random nominal blip on the radar makes it important? How exactly do you figure that makes sense?

[rwsmith]

One important point you're overlooking, though, Pro. And that is that in the past two non-mutant parents often produced mutant offspring. There were active mutants and then passive carriers of the gene, so, in addition to all of the active mutations being wiped out except for a few hundred, the passive X-gene carriers suddenly no longer carried it. The latter is probably far more damaging to the continued survival of mutantkind than the former.

Thus if this baby was born of two baseline human/flatscan parents, then that is a huge deal for the future of mutantkind. Unfortunately we know zip about the kid's parents, but that's where this whole notion of faith comes in.

Basically, to further clarify, what Beast discovered is that there aren't enough mutants left to save mutantkind by simply reproducing among themselves (if it's even possible for two mutants to produce mutant offspring anymore due to Wanda's magics). Not enough genetic diversity left for this to be a viable option. However, if millions of humans started having mutant babies again then that's a very different scenario, and hence why the baby could be so important.

[Pro]

Thus if this baby was born of two baseline human/flatscan parents, then that is a huge deal for the future of mutantkind. Unfortunately we know zip about the kid's parents, but that's where this whole notion of faith comes in.

Oh i know. I didn't overlook that. I didn't mention it because it seemed selfevident. I did mention 198 mutants with an x-gene meaning there is supposed to be nobody else with an x-gene, active or latent.

I just find the plot twister of "the curse didn't stick" incredibly lazy and it doesn't fit what they told us about the MC baby. Cable was mentioned specifically keeping this baby save because it holds the key to saving the mutant race. If this baby is followed by hundreds of new mutant babies over the next year why not keep her save and in the present for a few months until there are enough mutant babies that the novelty of this baby wears off? Marvel said Cable is convinced she holds the key to saving the future of the mutant race. It seems pretty clear that she's intended as more than a nominal blip.

[Rick Summers]

It's the power of magic that's preventing further mutant births so what if the mother (may she rest in peace LOL) was, via magic, shielding herself from that chaos magic (or whatever it's called nowadays) therefore allowing her baby to be born a mutant?

[rwsmith]

Oh i know. I didn't overlook that. I didn't mention it because it seemed selfevident. I did mention 198 mutants with an x-gene meaning there is supposed to be nobody else with an x-gene, active or latent.

I just find the plot twister of "the curse didn't stick" incredibly lazy and it doesn't fit what they told us about the MC baby. Cable was mentioned specifically keeping this baby save because it holds the key to saving the mutant race. If this baby is followed by hundreds of new mutant babies over the next year why not keep her save and in the present for a few months until there are enough mutant babies that the novelty of this baby wears off? Marvel said Cable is convinced she holds the key to saving the future of the mutant race. It seems pretty clear that she's intended as more than a nominal blip.

Good point. If this baby is just the first of many, why is she so important in and of herself?

No, you're probably right in that this kid has the ability to trump Wanda's hex and jumpstart the mutant race again somehow. Perhaps through the Phoenix force? :wink:

Pretty lame either way IMO, though.

[jarrod]

Well, the baby may not be "the first of many", she may be a singular occurrence. But she might also be able to resist Wanda's magics, and reproduce mutants (which even the current remaining mutants can't do afaik now)... in a sense, she'll slowly restart mutation through breeding, but we wouldn't see the real results of that for generations, certainly not within most of the X-Men's lifetimes.

[Henry T.]

The MC baby was never meant to represent a nominal blip on the radar for mutants. It shattered their radar :p. Have you even followed Messiah Complex where the baby is presented as either the solution to saving the mutant race or the end for one million humans? How is that "nothing more than a nominal blip"? Cable traveled with the baby to the future to raise her because he is convinced she is supposed to rescue the mutant race. The mutant race won't be rescued by simple breeding and they wasted 13 chapters of Endangered Species to point out ad nauseam that new mutants being born wouldn't save the mutant race because the mutant race had passed the red line. They have mutant genetic material. 198 mutants with the x-gene. It's not enough. If one more baby would make the difference they could have easily opened up a mutant sperm bank and mix and match to produce dozens of babies in a span of a year. But one more baby, even dozens of more mutant babies won't make the difference.
If the baby isn't assumed to rescue the mutant race why did Cable specifically take this baby to the future to raise her? Is he planning to do so for all mutant babies born in the next couple of decades? Open up a future time mutant creche? Regardless of whether the baby is a reborn character or not it is pretty clear the baby means more than just a nominal blip.



Anything related to the rebirth of the wellspring of all life unborn is utterly pointless? On the other hand the baby being a random nominal blip on the radar makes it important? How exactly do you figure that makes sense?

I agree with you.

At first the X-Men and the villains were after the baby because she was the first mutant born since M-Day. They wanted to know how and why this happened and her very existence represented hope for the future.

As the story evolved, it was revealed that the baby will either save or doom mutant kind by either ushering in peace or cause a war where she will kill many humans and cause mutants to be persecuted even more.

She will either cause a good future or a bad one, depending on who raises her or controls her.

Cable views her as the last hope that saves them all and Bishop views her as bringing damnation and causing his horrible future.

So its not about the baby growing up and reproducing and creating more mutants that way anyways.

She has a special nature that allowed her to be born despite Wanda's woogey. And she is destined to be a powerful agent of change for mutants.