Why did I not realize it before?! : Sage : Diana Fox = Magneto : Xorn

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

http://marvellegends.net/MarvelLegends/HML02/Xorn01.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/GoldBlade6/zcustomsnotforsale/XORN.jpg

http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/news/marvel-diorama//xorn_un.jpg



later...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/outsider506/home%20made%20comics/xorn-001-1.jpg

[Joe Acro]

Words fail me.

[Mr.EZ]

I would read a comic with that lineup, and I don't know why.

[timbox]

I am very interested in this topic, however, I do not know what the title means, nor do I comprehend the overall purpose. I also do not see any Sage, which I require, especially since her name is in the title. If that photobucket is an image of Sage, I apologize, my orphanage does not approve of photobucket, unfortunately.

[darknessatnoon]

I am very interested in this topic, however, I do not know what the title means, nor do I comprehend the overall purpose. I also do not see any Sage, which I require, especially since her name is in the title. If that photobucket is an image of Sage, I apologize, my orphanage does not approve of photobucket, unfortunately.

There is no Sage imagery or content here, timbox. This thread needs deletion.

[timbox]

There is no Sage imagery or content here, timbox. This thread needs deletion.

reported...

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

Sage

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/76865-23798-sage_super.jpg

Sage's Split Personality : Diana Fox

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/224192-158648-sage_super.jpg

=

Magneto

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/jayskywalker01/magneto.jpg

Magneto's Split Personality : "Kwan-Yin" Xorn

http://www.reappropriate.com/aaheroes/images/kuanyinxorn.jpg

[Michael Sean]

It's all starting to make sense now....!

[darknessatnoon]

Sage's Split Personality : Diana Fox = Magneto's Split Personality : "Kwan-Yin" Xorn

I see the 'theoretical' comparison, but it's very insulting to Sage to compare her to Magneto.

[timbox]

Do you have any scans of Britannia that I can use as a comparison?

[Joe Acro]

Sage's Split Personality : Diana Fox = Magneto's Split Personality : "Kwan-Yin" XornExcept Xorn isn't a split personality.

I mean, the explanations include Magneto being Xorn, Xorn being a Magneto imposter and twin to another Xorn, and Xorn being some sort of cosmic entity that tried to rally the mutants in Magneto's place.

No split personalities.

[darknessatnoon]

Except Xorn isn't a split personality.

I mean, the explanations include Magneto being Xorn, Xorn being a Magneto imposter and twin to another Xorn, and Xorn being some sort of cosmic entity that tried to rally the mutants in Magneto's place.

No split personalities.

Xorn was always meant to be Magneto. I will not buy his magnetic lies about there being some "cosmic entity" or a "twin." Just admit that Magneto is mentally ill and move on.

Sage on the other hand does not have a split personality. She was infected by a magical computer virus.

[Seikun21]

I see the 'theoretical' comparison, but it's very insulting to Magneto to compare him to Sage.

Fixed that for you :wink:

[darknessatnoon]

Fixed that for you :wink:

You have a computer virus, too.

[Seikun21]

You have a computer virus, too.

Is it the same magical one that made Diana Fox? I always wanted a crazy split personality.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

No split personalities.

Which is the whole point of this thread: It provides what I think is the best solution to the continuity catastrophe that is Xorneto !

http://www.cagle.com/working/061206/stantis.gif

[darknessatnoon]

Is it the same magical one that made Diana Fox? I always wanted a crazy split personality.

Possibly, for you are saying crazy things.

[darknessatnoon]

No split personalities.

Which is the whole point of this thread: It provides what I think is the best solution to the continuity catastrophe that is Xorneto !



Don't try to make Sage responsible for solving Magneto's problems.

[timbox]

I appreciate Xorn's hamburger.

[darknessatnoon]

I appreciate Xorn's hamburger.

He is frustrated because his magnetic powers do not control hamburgers.

[Joe Acro]

Sage's Split Personality : Diana Fox = Magneto's Split Personality : "Kwan-Yin" Xorn

No split personalities.
I am definitely lost.

[timbox]

He is frustrated because his magnetic powers do not control hamburgers.

Magneto's powers would though!

[darknessatnoon]

Magneto's powers would though!

Post a scan where Magneto is able to control a hamburger, please. I need to see it to believe it.

And the scan can't be from out of continuity stories!

[frog]

Post a scan where Magneto is able to control a hamburger, please. I need to see it to believe it.

And the scan can't be from out of continuity stories!

Beef is full of iron. Magneto can wield a Whopper like nobody's business.

[darknessatnoon]

This thread is not only insulting to me as a Sage fan, it is making me sad to realize how much I miss Xorn.

http://www.imagebucket.net/bucket/is.php?i=487&img=Ernst2.jpg

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

Don't try to make Sage responsible for solving Magneto's problems.

After becoming Omniversal Guardian, in CC's own words, Sage is now god or the closest analogue there is in MU-616

In other words : SAGE IS YOUR GOD NOW

[Novaya Havoc]

I think I just dropped an acid tablet because this is making no sense.

[Mr.EZ]

This thread is making me hate Xorn and Sage more, and I didn't think that was possible.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

I bet you'd hate them even more if they got together and had a baby no?

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/2/27/XornApoc442.jpg/440px-XornApoc442.jpg

[Michael Sean]

This thread is not only insulting to me as a Sage fan, it is making me sad to realize how much I miss Xorn.

http://www.imagebucket.net/bucket/is.php?i=487&img=Ernst2.jpg

If anyone figured out a way to have sex with a comic book I'd do that issue. Hell all of Grant's X-men work :biggrin:

[timbox]

If anyone figured out a way to have sex with a comic book I'd do that issue. Hell all of Grant's X-men work :biggrin:

I'm appalled that Magneto outsourced Xorn to Red China.

[psycwave]

I bet you'd hate them even more if they got together and had a baby no?

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/2/27/XornApoc442.jpg/440px-XornApoc442.jpg

O My:eek: ....what the hell is that?

[Swashbuckler]

AOA Xorn, who turned out to be Husk I think. Lame. Xorn and Sage should totlaly date though. He's be all xen like and she'd just steal his debit card and buy lots of wine.

[Guest_1001]

Don't try to make Sage responsible for solving Magneto's problems.

After becoming Omniversal Guardian, in CC's own words, Sage is now god or the closest analogue there is in MU-616

In other words : SAGE IS YOUR GOD NOW

Yeah but considering CC's disregard for continuity -- even continuity that he wrote -- I would ignore that. In fact, I would pretend it never happened.

I am definitely lost.

You're not the only one.

[darknessatnoon]

Yeah but considering CC's disregard for continuity -- even continuity that he wrote -- I would ignore that. In fact, I would pretend it never happened.




No. It happened. And it's STILL happening.

[matthewaos]

I liked Xorn, up to the point where his creator screwed him. I like Saga in two or three random X-Treme X-Men issues I remember her. Nothing more.

Who is this white guy with Shazam's thunder on his chest?

[Joe Acro]

Who is this white guy with Shazam's thunder on his chest?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman

[matthewaos]

Oh yeah, I forgot about him... I didn't know there was a Xorn/Magneto action figure...

[KiplingKat]

Except Magneto lived through an entire Holocaust, four years of watching millions die, without showing any signs of MPD, drug abuse, or pedophilia, for 40+ years of comics. Magneto has emotional issues (Chemically induced bi-polar disorder, PTSD, survivors guilt, control issues, intimacy issues, etc.), but these are not them.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/analysis/hes-got-issues-a-dime-store-psychology-look-at-the-character-of-magneto-in-the-616.php

Sorry Morrison lovers, Magneto is NOT Xorn.

Perhaps had Morrison deigned to read a single comic with Magneto is it rather than fixating on Ian McKellen's version of him in the movie, he might have written something more viable. But we all know Morrison had a hate-on for Magneto the instant he walked into the title (can you think of any other writer run in which a single character was killed twice?) and wasn't mature enough to keep his personal feelings about the character to himself.

The retcon may have been sloppy, but in fact it made a lot more sense. A. Why would Magneto give up Genosha when there were still survivors on it, "His people", in order to go slumming in China and B. How the heck did Magneto hide out under Xavier and Wolverine's noses for a year without them noticing?

[Rachel Grey]

Is it the same magical one that made Diana Fox? I always wanted a crazy split personality.

ZOMG HAX!!

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

Magneto has no MPD? He himself said that he considered himself to be brainwashed during his time with the xmen in the 1980s.

Magneto has no drug problems? Magneto became dependent on Fabian Cortez, and then Polaris, before his powers were restored to normal in the DS LS.

Magneto is not a pedophile? For starters, Esme was already an adolescent/teenage femme fatale, and so would not fall under the strict definition of pedophilia, and Magneto was raised Jewish in pre-WW2/WW2 Eastern Europe, in a culture where traditionally it was considered that people already sexually came of age when they hit puberty ( which is why it has always had lower ages of consent than the US ) . Remember AoA where he romanced and married an obviously teenage Rogue?

Why did he leave his people in Genosha? Because as it was shown in New Xmen, the entire island had become dangerously radioactive, and he was already perilously weakened since he was not only recovering from being nearly killed by Wolverine, but because he was also drained from putting the souls of all the victims of the Genoshan massacre into a black box.

How did he evade detection for over a year? Seriously , do you have to even ask? The Xorn helmet was built with the same psychic-proof technology that his usual helmet was made from, and it has long been firmly established in the x-titles that energy powers always scramble psionic reception ( like with Gambit ) . And as how he could evade Wolverine, well, if he can actually manipulate his own personal bio-EM field to be able to come into direct physical contact with Rogue, surely he can prevent his own personal scent from being detected by others.

The only thing that went wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it offended the deluded devotion of Magneto's fanatical groupies, which was the whole point of the storyline all along. I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation ( he regularly bullied his loyal subordinate Toad, and even killed a faithful follower, Senyaka, whose only offense per se was that he failed to get permission for killing humans from Magneto, who stated that he approved of it anyway, but who was considered dead at that time the killing happened so obviously Senyaka could not have asked him ), but looking at you fanboys/fangirls ( much more the latter than the former, the mark of the classic silver haired evil bishonen) I wonder no more.

[MartinRedmond]

Sage's Split Personality : Diana Fox

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/224192-158648-sage_super.jpg


Who drew this? Her boobs look sentient.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation, but looking at you fanboys/fangirls ( much more the latter than the former, the mark of the classic silver haired evil bishonen) I wonder no more.

It was mostly the outfit. That color scheme and the cape were just freakin glorious.

Seriously... Overthinking = BAD.

[darknessatnoon]

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

Magneto has no MPD? He himself said that he considered himself to be brainwashed during his time with the xmen in the 1980s.

Magneto has no drug problems? Magneto became dependent on Fabian Cortez, and then Polaris, before his powers were restored to normal in the DS LS.

Magneto is not a pedophile? For starters, Esme was already an adolescent/teenage femme fatale, and so would not fall under the strict definition of pedophilia, and Magneto was raised Jewish in pre-WW2/WW2 Eastern Europe, in a culture where traditionally it was considered that people already sexually came of age when they hit puberty ( which is why it has always had lower ages of consent than the US ) . Remember AoA where he romanced and married an obviously teenage Rogue?

Why did he leave his people in Genosha? Because as it was shown in New Xmen, the entire island had become dangerously radioactive, and he was already perilously weakened since he was not only recovering from being nearly killed by Wolverine, but because he was also drained from putting the souls of all the victims of the Genoshan massacre into a black box.

How did he evade detection for over a year? Seriously , do you have to even ask? The Xorn helmet was built with the same psychic-proof technology that his usual helmet was made from, and it has long been firmly established in the x-titles that energy powers always scramble psionic reception ( like with Gambit ) . And as how he could evade Wolverine, well, if he can actually manipulate his own personal bio-EM field to be able to come into direct physical contact with Rogue, surely he can prevent his own personal scent from being detected by others.

The only thing that went wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it offended the deluded devotion of Magneto's groupies, which was the whole point of the storyline all along. I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation, but looking at you fanboys/fangirls ( much more the latter than the former, the mark of the classic silver haired evil bishonen) I wonder no more.

This is a wonderful post and needs to be quoted. I take back every thing bad I said about this thread.

[Leirus]

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

Magneto has no MPD? He himself said that he considered himself to be brainwashed during his time with the xmen in the 1980s.

Magneto has no drug problems? Magneto became dependent on Fabian Cortez, and then Polaris, before his powers were restored to normal in the DS LS.

Magneto is not a pedophile? For starters, Esme was already an adolescent/teenage femme fatale, and so would not fall under the strict definition of pedophilia, and Magneto was raised Jewish in pre-WW2/WW2 Eastern Europe, in a culture where traditionally it was considered that people already sexually came of age when they hit puberty ( which is why it has always had lower ages of consent than the US ) . Remember AoA where he romanced and married an obviously teenage Rogue?

Why did he leave his people in Genosha? Because as it was shown in New Xmen, the entire island had become dangerously radioactive, and he was already perilously weakened since he was not only recovering from being nearly killed by Wolverine, but because he was also drained from putting the souls of all the victims of the Genoshan massacre into a black box.

How did he evade detection for over a year? Seriously , do you have to even ask? The Xorn helmet was built with the same psychic-proof technology that his usual helmet was made from, and it has long been firmly established in the x-titles that energy powers always scramble psionic reception ( like with Gambit ) . And as how he could evade Wolverine, well, if he can actually manipulate his own personal bio-EM field to be able to come into direct physical contact with Rogue, surely he can prevent his own personal scent from being detected by others.

The only thing that went wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it offended the deluded devotion of Magneto's groupies, which was the whole point of the storyline all along. I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation, but looking at you fanboys/fangirls ( much more the latter than the former, the mark of the classic silver haired evil bishonen) I wonder no more.

Do you realise that talking about a fictional character as he were real is also quite Fanboyish, do you?

He is not real... he has been depicted differently through the years... But I think the Iconic Magneto character is not a psycophatic druggie...

The real appeal of the character is the possibility that he is right... and that was lost with Morrison. And was lost becasue he brought the X-men to their last consequences. If that was not retconned, they could have also burn and bury the whole franchise...

BTW... The right boob is trying to flee...

[darknessatnoon]

Do you realise that talking about a fictional character as he were real is also quite Fanboyish, do you?

He is not real... he has been depicted differently through the years... But I think the Iconic Magneto character is not a psycophatic druggie...

The real appeal of the character is the possibility that he is right... and that was lost with Morrison. And was lost becasue he brought the X-men to their last consequences. If that was not retconned, they could have also burn and bury the whole franchise...

BTW... The right boob is trying to flee...

There is a difference between a willing suspension of disbelief (which ReturnoftheComeback) was practicing, and being a Magnetic Obsessive (the group of people ReturnoftheComeback will purge us of).

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

He is not real... he has been depicted differently through the years... But I think the Iconic Magneto character is not a psycophatic druggie...

Mags is a psycho. He's also right about some things. Still a psycho.

The Magneto Army isn't too keen on these two notions coexisting. Something that people like Return are allowed to address. Snark or not.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newxmen149planetx0404hy2.jpg

[psycwave]

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newxmen149planetx0404hy2.jpg

:eek: Remind me to never say the wrong fuit/vegetable around ole Xorneto. You get smacked silly.

[darknessatnoon]

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/darknessatnoon/newxmen149planetx0404hy2.jpg

I would like to see Magneto give his mutant followers a lecture on the true nature of the tomato.

[timbox]

Magneto's mutant powers give him full control over fruits and vegetables.
This makes the Sage analogy even stronger.

[brundlefly]

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

Have you been reading comics for very long? In terms of howl-inducing retcons throughout the years, "Xorn wasn't Magneto" is a minor blip on the radar. It wasn't even the "retcon to end all retcons" in the X-Universe alone, much less "of all time" or whatever hyperbole you're getting at there. You seem awfully worked up about a minor retcon from four years ago.

[darknessatnoon]

Have you been reading comics for very long? In terms of howl-inducing retcons throughout the years, "Xorn wasn't Magneto" is a minor blip on the radar. It wasn't even the "retcon to end all retcons" in the X-Universe alone, much less "of all time" or whatever hyperbole you're getting at there. You seem awfully worked up about a minor retcon from four years ago.

He is upset because it was the most disgusting and cowardly of the retcons.

[Rivka]

Have you been reading comics for very long? In terms of howl-inducing retcons throughout the years, "Xorn wasn't Magneto" is a minor blip on the radar. It wasn't even the "retcon to end all retcons" in the X-Universe alone, much less "of all time" or whatever hyperbole you're getting at there. You seem awfully worked up about a minor retcon from four years ago.

Absolutely.

This whole thread is insane.

I almost don't take it seriously, but there is a lot of vindictive, bigotted, and ignorant stuff being said.

darknessatnoon said: "He is upset because it was the most disgusting and cowardly of the retcons."

Sweetie, if you and "ReturnoftheComeback" (whoever he is) don't like Magneto, don't read about him. Your obsessive hatred of the character, your constant crying about Marvel's totally necessary restoration of their most famous and important villain, is seriously the problem.

Fans love their favorite characters, and post about them, and defend them, and we're all in this together. Nut-jobs go out of their way to attack fans who love characters they (the nutters) hate. Nut-jobs obsessively complain about developments with characters they hate. Nut-cases want characters dead that they hate. It's not normal, it's abnormal, to be so obsessed about Magneto's return, and the fact that Xorn is not Magneto, and never was Magneto, if your only reason for doing so is that you want the character dead, and you hate him. Or you reject what is in fact his characterization for the last 27 years.

I think you, darkness (great name by the way, based on a great book), are a highly intelligent guy. I think you have a wicked sense of humor sometimes, and an even more wicked sense of irony, which often goes over my head. But this "ReturnoftheComeback" is serious, and his posts are disturbing. I don't get why you would say something like:

There is a difference between a willing suspension of disbelief (which ReturnoftheComeback) was practicing, and being a Magnetic Obsessive (the group of people ReturnoftheComeback will purge us of).

I hope you were joking. Why do you read X-Men comics anyway, if you think like this? People who you don't agree with, who love a character, have to be "purged"? What kind of attitude is that?

Like I said, the only obsessive people I see who are disturbing in comic book fandom are the ones who obsessively attack characters and fans of the characters they DON'T like, saying that if THEY don't like a character, or character developments, then no one else can. That's crazy stuff.

ReturnoftheComeback doesn't suspend disbelief, he's totally obsessed with a character he hates. He displays dismal ignorance of the character, includes a disturbing comment on the Jewish people, ignores the truth to spin and patch together a diatribe, all to eliminate a character, and "purge" the fans of this character? "Purge" from what? The world? The message boards?

You know, if you don't like someone's posts, just put them on ignore. Geez. No sense getting genocidal about it. (Why does it seem so appropriate you are a Grant Morrison's fan?)

And I know you were probably joking with that very dry sense of humor and irony you have, but it was still upsetting to read.

[darknessatnoon]

But this "ReturnoftheComeback" is serious, and his posts are disturbing.

I apologize but I just can't bring myself to take ReturnoftheComeback as seriously as you do.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

But this "ReturnoftheComeback" is serious, and his posts are disturbing.

Return ain't *that* serious.

[timbox]

I'd like to personally purge the world of nutters.

[timbox]

The Magneto haters just can't get past the fact that he can control water and the molecular level, and thus has complete control over everything.

Seriously, get over it, Magneto was right.

[darknessatnoon]

The Magneto haters just can't get past the fact that he can control water and the molecular level, and thus has complete control over everything.



Except hamburgers, apparently.

[timbox]

Except hamburgers, apparently.

I proved your hamburger argument wrong yesterday!!!!

[brundlefly]

He is upset because it was the most disgusting and cowardly of the retcons.

Pfft. Just to name one, the return of Aunt May in the Spidey books was far more disgusting and cowardly.

And so he's been "upset" about this for four years now? :rolleyes: Give me a break.

[KiplingKat]

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

You're joking right? BND means nothing to you? How about Deadly Genesis?

Magneto has no MPD? He himself said that he considered himself to be brainwashed during his time with the xmen in the 1980s.

No, he hasn't. He resents Moira's manipulting his DNA, but after the initial reveal he got over the shock of it and has never suggested that he Reformation Period was anything but sincere since.

Magneto has no drug problems? Magneto became dependent on Fabian Cortez, and then Polaris, before his powers were restored to normal in the DS LS.

Sorry, but there is no evidence that he became addicted to Fabien's power boost (he didn't even know what they were, he thought he was being healed) or Polaris' abilities. As soon as he was repowered he dumped Polaris like a hot rock. Polaris was the one who became addicted to the heights of power he helped her reach, not vice versa.

Magneto is not a pedophile? For starters, Esme was already an adolescent/teenage

Stop right there. End of topic. Magneto would have been in his 70's by that point, and he was dating a 14 year old (actually younger considering she was a clone). I don't care where you are from, that's pedophilia in anyone's book.

femme fatale, and so would not fall under the strict definition of pedophilia, and Magneto was raised Jewish in pre-WW2/WW2 Eastern Europe, in a culture where traditionally it was considered that people already sexually came of age when they hit puberty ( which is why it has always had lower ages of consent than the US ) .

Wow...that's...I don't know what to say to that kind of racism and ignorance.

Remember AoA where he romanced and married an obviously teenage Rogue?

Beside being an alternate timeline, most Magneto fans have issues with that too.

Why did he leave his people in Genosha? Because as it was shown in New Xmen, the entire island had become dangerously radioactive, and he was already perilously weakened since he was not only recovering from being nearly killed by Wolverine, but because he was also drained from putting the souls of all the victims of the Genoshan massacre into a black box.

Why would radiation mean anything to someone who had deflected the radioactive energies of two tactical nukes?

And if Magneto was so "depowered", A. why was he even walking again and B. How did he hide from Xavier and Logan?

How did he evade detection for over a year? Seriously , do you have to even ask? The Xorn helmet was built with the same psychic-proof technology that his usual helmet was made from, and it has long been firmly established in the x-titles that energy powers always scramble psionic reception ( like with Gambit ) . And as how he could evade Wolverine, well, if he can actually manipulate his own personal bio-EM field to be able to come into direct physical contact with Rogue, surely he can prevent his own personal scent from being detected by others.

So he never took the helmet off the entire time he was in the mansion?

And bio-magnetic fields are not scents, which are chemical, pheromones. And Logan would have smelled the air ionizing around him whenever he used his powers, which would be rather familiar to him.

The only thing that went wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it offended the deluded devotion of Magneto's fanatical groupies, which was the whole point of the storyline all along. I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation ( he regularly bullied his loyal subordinate Toad, and even killed a faithful follower, Senyaka, whose only offense per se was that he failed to get permission for killing humans from Magneto, who stated that he approved of it anyway, but who was considered dead at that time the killing happened so obviously Senyaka could not have asked him ), but looking at you fanboys/fangirls ( much more the latter than the former, the mark of the classic silver haired evil bishonen) I wonder no more.

No, the only thing wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it was written by a man who had a hate-on for a character he was completely ignorant of, as well as being ignorant of history itself (the Nazi's did not heard people into "crematoriums", they went through gas chamber first, which just shows how much Morrison was talking out his backside).

And how did Magneto gain a cult following? He's never been what Morrison made him out to be, even in the Silver Age, that's how.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

Pfft. Just to name one, the return of Aunt May in the Spidey books was far more disgusting and cowardly.

And so he's been "upset" about this for four years now?



For starters, I'm not really that much of a Spider-fan as an X-fan, so it should be understood that I am referring to X-stuff here, and furthermore, while yes I am furious indeed about "Xorneto" , I am just so livid about the absolute trashing they did to GM's run on Xmen , not just Xorneto , but everything else as well.


includes a disturbing comment on the Jewish people

Ah-ha,I knew it, you must be Patty Cockrum, who accused GM and several other people of anti-semitism simply because they dared to even portray that Magneto had become like the Nazis simply because he was a survivor of the holocaust ( abused victims grow to become abusive victimizers after all) , never mind that Israel itself is commonly accused of doing the same.

ignores the truth to spin and patch together a diatribe

Yes, the truth of the current Idiotor-in-chief of the MU, the very same individual whose response to the continuity mess that is Brand New Day was " It's magic, we don't have to explain anything!", who is currently one of the two most-hated people in american mainstream comics at the moment ( the other is his colleague at the Distinguished Competition ), and whose reputation for truthfulness is as much of a joke as that of Faux News.

Apparently , Magneto is truly the Master of the Fatal Attraction like he once claimed, to have got such followers as yourselves.

http://iputatextonimage.com/wp-content/song-of-my-people.jpg

[KiplingKat]

Ah-ha,I knew it, you must be Patty Cockrum, who accused GM and several other people of anti-semitism simply because they dared to even portray that Magneto had become like the Nazis simply because he was a survivor of the holocaust ( abused victims grow to become abusive victimizers after all) , never mind that Israel itself is commonly accused of doing the same.

No, were accusing you of antisemitism for making that "They all date young teenage girls!" comment. WTF was that? What they're Jewish/Slavic, so they never left the Middle Ages?

[Rivka]

Wow, seriously, one of the most ignorant posts I've read in 13 years of being on internet message boards.

Say what you want, it won't change the fact that Xorn was still the RETCON to end all retcons.

Settle down, my friend. It was really a blip on the radar screen. Magneto is one of Marvel's most well-known characters, and they had to bring him back. Xorneto's portayal in the "Planet X" storyline was incompetent, damaging to the character, and anti-Semitic as well.

Magneto has no MPD? He himself said that he considered himself to be brainwashed during his time with the xmen in the 1980s.

It's called DID now (dissociative identity disorder), and no, Magneto does not have this. What does his paranoid and enraged anger at what Moira did to him as a baby have to do with the talking Xorn-mask? As Moira tried to point out to him, she did not "brainwash" him. Magneto accused her of it, but it was a false accusation. No one "brainwashed" him. But in any case, how does that relate to dissociative identity disorder? The latter is a disorder where a horribly abused child will form several alters, or alternate personalities, that handle different aspects of their lives.

Xorn and his inner-star, his true self, (because Kuan Yin Xorn was actually basically a good person being controlled by Sublime), had a dialogu in "Planet X." That's called talking to himself.

Magneto has no drug problems? Magneto became dependent on Fabian Cortez, and then Polaris, before his powers were restored to normal in the DS LS.

That wasn't a "drug problem." That was Magneto's loss of powers, and his desperate need to have power, in order to keep Genosha stable. In his mind, POWER and powers mean he can keep his nightmares away. Without his powers, in his mind, he is nothing. He used Lorna, and Cortez, who he killed as soon as he didn't need him any longer, to help him function as president of Genosha.

Magneto is not a pedophile? For starters, Esme was already an adolescent/teenage femme fatale, and so would not fall under the strict definition of pedophilia, and Magneto was raised Jewish in pre-WW2/WW2 Eastern Europe, in a culture where traditionally it was considered that people already sexually came of age when they hit puberty...

Do you think you could apologize for this statement? Are you saying that the Jewish people, in Eastern Europe or anywhere, consider that children are already "sexually of age" when they hit puberty? There is no more strict and structured control of the "coming of age" and sexuality than in orthodox Judaism. And modern Conservative and Reform Jews love and protect their children, and our religion commands us to love and protect our children, and your comments are insulting in the extreme. And no, the Bar Mitzvah does not mean the 13-year old is ready for sex and therefore Jewish people condone pedophila.

In ancient times, as in all ancient socieities, girls were married off as early as 11 or 12. In Europe during the Middle Ages, girls were married off when they were children. But Judaism for the last 1000 years has in fact rejected this ancient practice, along with taking multiple wives. In any case, you are saying that Magneto is a pedophile, for which you have no comic book evidence, just because he's Jewish. That is ignorant and insulting.

You make this ignorant statement about the Jewish people to support some contention about Magneto that has never been shown in the comic books, while we've seen ample evidence of such questionable relationships and longings with Wolverine, Xavier, and Warren Worthington....

Why did he leave his people in Genosha? ....

He didn't leave his people in Genosha. He was killed in the Sentinel Attack. It looks highly likely that Wanda brought him back. He did fail his people of Genosha totally, by going psychotic and paranoid again, and declaring war on the world, and being therefore completely unable to defend the island from the mega-sentinel attack. Magneto is immune to radiation, by the way, as it is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

As to who put the recordings of the last thoughts and words in the black box, we don't know. My theory is, that Magneto did do this as he was really dying, and the box was real, and it was legitimate, and either Xorneto/Sublime lied about how the "technology virus" was released, or Sublime was responsible. A "technology virus" seems something Sublime, the sentient bacteria, would do. On the other hand, Mags might have actually contrived something like that, as a last attack on earth as he was dying, and Sublime/Xorneto took advantage of it.

It remains to be explained.

Otherwise, it makes no sense whatsoever that Magneto would leave Genosha and hide among the X-Men for a year, when he could be doing a hundred other things to get his power back, rebuild his bases, and start over again. Why waste the time, why spend the effort on the Chinese prison, which seems to have been a real prison in China, anyway, so Xorneto was lying about that. It was nothing but a hackneyed plot device, to sit on the character Magneto for 2 years, degrade and destroy him, and it is illogical in the extreme.

How did he evade detection for over a year? Seriously , do you have to even ask? ...

Yes, we have to ask, because it's one of the plot holes of Morrison's "intent." Xorn didn't keep the helmet on, even in the comics, all the time. And as for his scent, Magneto has to eat, he had to bathe, he had to use the bathroom, there was no way that Wolverine would not pick up his scent. Xorn was Xorn, and that's why no one detected that he was "Magneto."

The only thing that went wrong with the Xorn storyline was that it offended the deluded devotion of Magneto's fanatical groupies, which was the whole point of the storyline all along.

Interesting that you say that. "Which was the whole point of the storyline all along." Are you agreeing with me that Grant Morrison went out of his way to degrade and destroy this character in a petty, unprofessional hissy fit that should have been beneath him? Because that is what you are saying. No, it's not the job of the Marvel writer to offend the fans of a character, honestly, it's not.

But I think Morrison just was ignorant of the character, and didn't -- as usual -- think things through.

As to what "went wrong" with "Planet X" -- why dozens of problems. Plot holes, lapses in logic, incompetent writing, including the writer forcing his real-world beliefs and prejudices down readers' throats by having characters repeat them every few panels, just to make sure we GET IT. Silly plotting, no consistency. And anti-Semitism -- showing a Jewish character, one that was just profiled in a major Jewish magazine that same month -- building gas chambers and crematoria when he was never genocidal before in Marvel history.

I always used to wonder how Magneto could inspire a cult in MU-616, considering his villainous personality and reputation

Are you John Byrne? Seriously, dude, have your read the comics in the last 27 years? I always wonder how Magneto could inspire such a cult of fanatical fanboys who want to destroy the character just because they don't want him to be a Holocaust survivor, and want him to be a one-dimensional generic villain. I do wonder, many thoughtful people, not just Magneto fans, have wondered, why all the hate? Why the obsessive attempts to remove Magneto's history and make him into a monster, for all these years.

Magneto has loyal fans, so do many other characters. I'm not part of a cult, thank you. I don't do cult-like thinking. I leave that to you Morrison groupies.

As for the rest:

I know nothing of silver-haired "evil bishonen" -- I've been reading X-Men comics for 40+ years. I have talked to the people who were involved in giving Magneto his backstory, and I have read interviews, and I know how important and serious Claremont was about this character. And how inspired it was, to make Magneto a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz, and the Auschwitz Sonderkommando in particular. I love this character. I don't interfere with fans who love other characters that I hate, why do you find it necessary to insult and stalk fans of Magneto?

As to Magneto's behavior, he spent most of his life as a good man, trying to stay on the path of righteousness. He's only been Magneto in the costume and helmet for the past 13 years or so, Marvel time. His behavior when psychotic and manic was rotten. But even then, even in his "Silver Age" times, he never killed anyone. And in fact, at least one of his battles with the X-Men was controlled by Xavier, secretly hiding in the minds of his X-kids, whom he sent into battle against an old friend who he knew was crazed and powerful. Magneto himself acknowledges that he has done and seen terrible things, that can never be forgotten or forgiven.

The attraction, for just as many male fans as female, is to a 3-dimensional and complex character, who strides the border between good and evil, who is constantly faced with making the right choice, and too often -- for a number of psychological and historical reasons -- makes the wrong choice. This is the most complicated and sophisticated character in comics, with the most poignant and important backstory. Magneto is vital to the core concept of the X-Men, and to the philosophy of Marvel.

You want all the villains to be EVIL and heroes to be GOOD, go to DC and read their books. Marvel is more complex than that. Some Marvel characters are pure good, the Galahads, but most heroes have flaws. Some of Marvel's villains are pure EVIL, like Red Skull, but most are complex. None so interesting, so intriguing, so important in the current world than Magneto.

[KiplingKat]

The attraction, for just as many male fans as female, is to a 3-dimensional and complex character, who strides the border between good and evil, who is constantly faced with making the right choice, and too often -- for a number of psychological and historical reasons -- makes the wrong choice. This is the most complicated and sophisticated character in comics, with the most poignant and important backstory. Magneto is vital to the core concept of the X-Men, and to the philosophy of Marvel.

You want all the villains to be EVIL and heroes to be GOOD, go to DC and read their books. Marvel is more complex than that. Some Marvel characters are pure good, the Galahads, but most heroes have flaws. Some of Marvel's villains are pure EVIL, like Red Skull, but most are complex. None so interesting, so intriguing, so important in the current world than Magneto.

Quoted for truth.

And to add to it:

I think that part of the appeal of Marvel comics (and to a lesser extent, the entire superhero genre entirely) is that it allows its readers to participate in a wish fulfillment fantasy where the reader witnesses a formerly powerless and sympathetic individual attain great power suddenly or even accidentally. In this narrative, the protagonist’s ascension is seen as being largely positive; he/she becomes a superhero and works to help the lives of others, while still dealing with the problems of his/her everyday life. The most obvious example of this scenario is Peter Parker, but most Marvel superheroes are a variation on this scenario in one form or another. I think most readers of comics buy into this theme; I enjoyed it as a kid, and I'm not afraid to admit that I enjoy it now.

Yet Claremont’s vision of Magneto takes this archetype and twists this theme—ever so slightly. A formerly powerless and very sympathetic individual suddenly gains great powers, but his transformation is seen as being much more ambiguous than Peter Parker's or Steve Rogers'. Magneto attempts to use his powers for good (or at least what he perceives as being good), but the results are much more realistic than in most superhero narratives. This reversal makes Mags one of Marvel’s best characters creatively; but reading a good Magneto story can also be a little disturbing because it questions conventions that we have grown to accept. I think this explains a lot of the anxiety that Magneto fosters among both creators and readership. In Marvel’s universe, Magneto exists alongside the old archetype, but also calls it into question.

While a character like Mags might not be that unusual in dystopian sci-fi setting or even in a more creative graphic novel such as the Watchmen, he stands out in this milieu. I sometimes get the feeling that readers, writers, and editors don’t always know what to do with him. They try to fit Mags in labels such as good/evil, hero/villain, etc, but he doesn’t always fit into these easy categories. Take away his powers and his mutanthood and he is like a real person, in many respects.

I like the comparison to “Munich and Syriania,” by the way. Perhaps Mags fits into these film's historical and cultural contexts more than he fits into the same world as the average super hero comic. But of course, we wouldn’t really want Mags to not stand out. What makes him so discomforting also makes him so interesting. ~ CandidI, Marvel.com X-Men Board

[timbox]

Wow, seriously, one of the most ignorant posts I've read in 13 years of being on internet message boards.


It's really going to be hard to pick who to vote for this month.

[darknessatnoon]

It's really going to be hard to pick who to vote for this month.

I think you just won.

[brundlefly]

I am just so livid about the absolute trashing they did to GM's run on Xmen , not just Xorneto , but everything else as well.

Oh, I agree with you on some of the rollbacks post-Grant, like the mutant population boom being all but ignored (and then later undone via House of M), representing some wasted opportunities. But Marvel was obviously going to undo Morrison's petty burn-job and burial of Magneto at the first opportunity. That was a given. So I've never quite understood the up-in-arms furor from the small-but-vocal contingent who got so riled up over the "that wasn't him" explanation. Particularly since the majority of them don't seem to be fans of the character anyway. It's equivalent to me getting disproportionally furious over a story that casts, say, Sunspot in a negative light, mocks him, and then kills him off being retconned later so that the character can return. Then railing on and on about it being a "disgusting and cowardly" move by Marvel, even though I don't care about that character and it was pretty obvious that the story would eventually be retconned. I can see getting upset about a number of the other post-Morrison rollbacks, but the Magneto/Xorneto thing really isn't the one to get hung up on, imo. It was never going to stand.

[Rivka]

Ah-ha,I knew it, you must be Patty Cockrum, who accused GM and several other people of anti-semitism simply because they dared to even portray that Magneto had become like the Nazis simply because he was a survivor of the holocaust ( abused victims grow to become abusive victimizers after all) , never mind that Israel itself is commonly accused of doing the same.

No, I am not Paty, but thanks for the compliment. I just talked to her a couple of hours ago, I'll be sure to let her know.

And yes, showing Xorneto as Magneto putting New Yorkers in gas chambers and ovens was anti-Semitic, given that he is a Jewish Holocaust survivor and a survivor of the Auschwitz Sonderkommando. And as Magneto himself said, he may have done some violent and terrible things in his time, but he would never do that. That was going too far, and it was deliberately done by Morrison to make some kind of quasi-political statement.

And are you now accusing the Israelis of putting people in gas chambers and crematoria?

You are just hitting on all cylinders, today, aren't you.

ignores the truth to spin and patch together a diatribe

Yes, the truth of the current Idiotor-in-chief of the MU, the very same individual whose response to the continuity mess that is Brand New Day was " It's magic, we don't have to explain anything!", who is currently one of the two most-hated people in american mainstream comics at the moment ( the other is his colleague at the Distinguished Competition ), and whose reputation for truthfulness is as much of a joke as that of Faux News.

Joe Quesada is possibly the greatest EinC that Marvel has had. And I find no evidence that he is "hated" except by a few die-hard fanboys on the internet. Again, if you don't like the direction of the comics, don't buy them. Why spend hours and hours going all over the internet attacking the editor in chief, or editors, or writers? That's nutty, that's obsessive.

Marvel right now is at the top of their game, (even though some of my comics this week weren't very good -- certainly not worth 4-bucks -- >ahem<ULTIMATES>ahem<).

Apparently , Magneto is truly the Master of the Fatal Attraction like he once claimed, to have got such followers as yourselves.

Magneto is a fictional character. The character is fascinating, and I adore him. I am a fan. I have been reading Marvel comics for 40+ years, and I love Marvel. If it ever gets to the point that I think Marvel has destroyed their Universe and continuity and crapped on themselves so horribly that it is a crime, I'll quit reading. Right now, (with one exception) I think Marvel is doing a good job balancing the various interests of their readership, young and old, new and old readers, readers who follow characters, or creators, or books. (The one exception is female fans -- Marvel remains too slow in bringing back and showcasing their powerful female characters and doing more to attract female readers.)

[KiplingKat]

And yes, showing Xorneto as Magneto putting New Yorkers in gas chambers and ovens was anti-Semitic, given that he is a Jewish Holocaust survivor and a survivor of the Auschwitz Sonderkommando. And as Magneto himself said, he may have done some violent and terrible things in his time, but he would never do that.

Which BTW, was proven by Magneto's reaction to what Xorn did in Excalibur Vol. 3 #2. And again in New Avengers #20, in which Magneto asked the Avengers to kill him rather than be taken over by Xorn and risk another genocide would be enacted in his name.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

No, he hasn't. He resents Moira's manipulting his DNA, but after the initial reveal he got over the shock of it and has never suggested that he Reformation Period was anything but sincere since.

Quote from Uncanny 304: "I am not the preening fawning man that I once was , when my mind was altered by your beloved Moira McTaggert".

Stop right there. End of topic. Magneto would have been in his 70's by that point, and he was dating a 14 year old (actually younger considering she was a clone).

Yes, a 70 year old man with the physical body of someone half his age due to Mutant Alpha. And Esme was already 16 at that time. And clones are supposed to be children now, even if they are already at an adult level in both physique and psyche?

I don't care where you are from, that's pedophilia in anyone's book.

Now that is hyperbole. Are you aware that 16 is the legal age of sexual consent in most places , including such as English-speaking First World nations like Canada, the UK, and even your own US? But if you want to be pedantic about it, use the correct clinical term hebephilia .

Wow...that's...I don't know what to say to that kind of racism and ignorance.

Do you even know what racism means? So I am automatically a racist merely for stating a fact about a particular ethno-cultural group. And as for ignorance: Jewish age of consent:
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:kNRJE9Luq_0J:www.openintegral.net/blog/%3Fp%3D36+jewish+13+age+of+consent&hl=tl&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ph&client=firefox-a
Polish age of consent:
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:qy9X09oAIiMJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe+polish+age+of+consent&hl=tl&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ph&client=firefox-a

Why would radiation mean anything to someone who had deflected the radioactive energies of two tactical nukes?

Are you saying that Magneto is IMMUNE to radioactivity? And that particular instance you are citing , in the Magneto War, Magneto was connected to a giant power BOOSTER.


A. why was he even walking again

Wow, so Magneto's power is to walk on 2 legs. I thought that he was born bipedal, like all sapiens.

So he never took the helmet off the entire time he was in the mansion?

Did Xorn ever take off his helmet in the mansion pre-Planet X?

And bio-magnetic fields are not scents, which are chemical, pheromones. And Logan would have smelled the air ionizing around him whenever he used his powers, which would be rather familiar to him.

Are you saying that Magneto, at Xorn-power levels could not be able to shield his pheromones with his own bio-EM force field? And did we ever see Xorn actually use his powers in Wolverine's immediate presence?

the Nazi's did not heard people into "crematoriums", they went through gas chamber first, which just shows how much Morrison was talking out his backside


When and where was it stated in his run that the Nazis did such a thing. Beak merely noted that they had "such total Nazis", which obviously meant, given the circumstances, a comparison in essence, not procedure.

[I]And how did Magneto gain a cult following? .

Magneto gained a cult following largely for the same reasons that women usually date bad boys.

He's never been what Morrison made him out to be, even in the Silver Age, that's how.

Hah, all you have to do is look back at all those early issues. Anyway, aside from that time with CC , he's never really been what you fanatics made him out to be either.

Quote from Uncanny 304: "For every dead mutant, I will take ten thousand human lives as penance!". Yeah, that's one non-genocidal hero all right.

[timbox]

Sage fails trying to call upon the powers of magnetism that she has tried to learn from her mentor, Magneto. She almost died here, forever.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7298/162851-149910-sage_super.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

Do you even know what racism means? So I am automatically a racist merely for stating a fact about a particular ethno-cultural group.

???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are supposed to get intimidated and reflexively apologize when people accuse you of racism.

[Rivka]

Sage fails trying to call upon the powers of magnetism that she has tried to learn from her mentor, Magneto. She almost died here, forever.

What? Am I missing something here? When did Sage get magnetic powers?




http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7298/162851-149910-sage_super.jpg[/QUOTE]

[timbox]

What? Am I missing something here? When did Sage get magnetic powers?


dn@n will fill you in on all the details, I can't be bothered.

[psycwave]

Sage fails trying to call upon the powers of magnetism that she has tried to learn from her mentor, Magneto. She almost died here, forever.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7298/162851-149910-sage_super.jpg

The color of Lifeguard's costume is different than the actual cover(or at least the cover i have)

[matthewaos]

This thread evolved into something completely different than what I left it.

I just think that Morisson's run was great, up to attack on weapon plus. I also think that it was pretty easy to understand that he didn't like editorial, or something behind the scenes, and did one of those no brainer stories, a stupid story, just to fuck everything up. It's like the "invisibles" all over again, if anyone knows what happened...

[KiplingKat]

Quote from Uncanny 304: "I am not the preening fawning man that I once was , when my mind was altered by your beloved Moira McTaggert".

A. Magneto was on a power high, which still does not even come close to approaching what Morrison did to him. B. If he feels he was forced into his reformation, he follows that statement by asking a legitimate, yet incongruous question: "..do you have the courage to do what I had done? Are you willing to walk down my path for a while?" If Magneto truly felt he had been brainwashed, why did he say it took "courage" to do it? Seems as though Magneto himself does not actually believe he was brainwashed, just making a spurious accusation.C. He may be trying to separate himself from Charles in that issue, but he never made such a claim again, even when he ran into the Ex-New Mutants in that same crossover, or later on Genosha.

And finally: Brainwashing is NOT an MPD.

Yes, a 70 year old man with the physical body of someone half his age due to Mutant Alpha.

And that makes a difference how? Mentally, he is still a 70 year old man, she's still a teenager, younger really considering she only had a few years of real life experiences.

And Esme was already 16 at that time. And clones are supposed to be children now, even if they are already at an adult level in both physique and psyche?

I think Esme's actions prove she did not have the "psyche" of a 16 year old.

Now that is hyperbole. Are you aware that 16 is the legal age of sexual consent in most places , including such as English-speaking First World nations like Canada, the UK, and even your own US? But if you want to be pedantic about it, use the correct clinical term hebephilia

Magneto has never shown interest in teenage girls, and I don't care what the "age of consent is" for two teenagers, everyone is going to look at a 70 year old man and a 16 year old girl crosseyed and call it pedophilia.

Do you even know what racism means?

Obviously. Since you keep insulating insulting things about Jews, I am forced to question if you do.

So I am automatically a racist merely for stating a fact about a particular ethno-cultural group. And as for ignorance: Jewish age of consent:
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:kNRJE9Luq_0J:www.openintegral.net/blog/%3Fp%3D36+jewish+13+age+of+consent&hl=tl&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ph&client=firefox-a
Polish age of consent:
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:qy9X09oAIiMJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe+polish+age+of+consent&hl=tl&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ph&client=firefox-a

That nice, now show me how many 70 year old men get away with sleeping with 16 year old girls on those cultures? Just because the "age of consent" is set low for two teenagers, that does not mean the culture look s approvingly on older men taking advantage of teenage girls.

Are you saying that Magneto is IMMUNE to radioactivity?

Uhm yeah, because the radioactive by-products of nuclear explosions, Gamma and X-Rays, are part of the EM spectrum which Magneto controls.

This would be something you might know about the character had you actually...well, known about the character.

And that particular instance you are citing , in the Magneto War, Magneto was connected to a giant power BOOSTER.

A BOOSTER, not something that gave him powers he did not already have. Magneto could walk in to a nuclear reactor in full meltdown and not be affected.

Wow, so Magneto's power is to walk on 2 legs. I thought that he was born bipedal, like all sapiens.

After Wolverine had severed his spine in Eve of Destruction? That why he was powerless to stop the Mega-Sentinel, remember?

Did Xorn ever take off his helmet in the mansion pre-Planet X?

Doesn't matter what it showed on panel, you are talking about a physical impossibility. Magneto would have never been able to take a shower, get completely clean, sweat, skin cell, they all would have been rotting on his body. The smell would have been indescribable. And to keep it in, he would have had to keep an extremely fine turned bio-electric field up 24/7 in order to break down the chemical bonds of the pheromones.

It's just not possible. Not 24/7. He would have had to take the helmet off at some point, and Xavier would have detected him.

Are you saying that Magneto, at Xorn-power levels could not be able to shield his pheromones with his own bio-EM force field?

Yes! Because pheromones are not electromagnetic in nature.

And did we ever see Xorn actually use his powers in Wolverine's immediate presence?

Yeah, a number of times if I remember.

When and where was it stated in his run that the Nazis did such a thing. Beak merely noted that they had "such total Nazis", which obviously meant, given the circumstances, a comparison in essence, not procedure.

You need to read Planet X again I see. Magneto talked about putting humans into "crematoriums", not gas chambers.

Magneto gained a cult following largely for the same reasons that women usually date bad boys.

And now you insinuate that every man who enjoys Magneto as a character must be gay...

Keep diggin' that hole buddy.

Hah, all you have to do is look back at all those early issues. Anyway, aside from that time with CC , he's never really been what you fanatics made him out to be either.

Yeah, I have actually.

http://www.magnetowasright.com/pages/analysis/genocide-or-acts-of-war-magnetos-brand-of-terrorism.php

Have you? Because Morrison certainly had not.

Quote from Uncanny 304: "For every dead mutant, I will take ten thousand human lives as penance!". Yeah, that's one non-genocidal hero all right.

I have to ask, is that the only Magneto issue you have read? Because I got a lot more issues backing up my claims in that essay I wrote on my site, mostly focused on Magneto actions.

It should be noted that Magneto only made that threat AFTER the X-Men attacked him. Up until that point, he was just talking about removing mutants from harm's way by relocating to Avalon. Nor is it threat he followed up on until the U.N. made the opening aggressive moves in blockading the planet and even them, the EMP was indiscriminate, mutants as well as humans probably died in its after effects. So was that really "genocide" or an act of war?

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

I think Esme's actions prove she did not have the "psyche" of a 16 year old.

Silly me, and here I thought the whole " seductive femme fatale/rebellious bad girl" phase was typical teenage behavior.

Magneto has never shown interest in teenage girls, and I don't care what the "age of consent is" for two teenagers, everyone is going to look at a 70 year old man and a 16 year old girl crosseyed and call it pedophilia.


So he was not interested in Magda, he was not interested in Rogue either, who as we all know, he made the Queen of his own team of Xmen in the AOA? Yeah right!

Since you keep insulating insulting things about Jews

Wow, you Jews are apparently so sensitive, I state a fact about 1930s/40s Eastern European Jewry, and you take it as a slur on the entire Jewish nation.

That nice, now show me how many 70 year old men get away with sleeping with 16 year old girls on those cultures?

Let's see, how about Woody Allen and Roman Polanski.

Just because the "age of consent" is set low for two teenagers, that does not mean the culture look s approvingly on older men taking advantage of teenage girls.

Traditionally all over the world, young girls were married off to much older men when they came of age. Just look at the Polygamy sect scandal in your country.
Have you watched the film "Fiddler in the Roof",which featured traditional Eastern European/Russian Jewish culture in the late 19th/early 20th century? I'd imagine the culture was still not that much different yet during Magneto's own youth.

Uhm yeah, because the radioactive by-products of nuclear explosions, Gamma and X-Rays, are part of the EM spectrum which Magneto controls.

Controlling something and not being affected by it are 2 different things. If he was immune to radioactivity, why does it give him bi-polar disorder then eh?

Magneto could walk in to a nuclear reactor in full meltdown and not be affected.

Now this I have got to see for real. Why does he even bother diverting nuclear missles whenever they target him , why not just bask in them, since anyway, he won't be affected.

That why he was powerless to stop the Mega-Sentinel, remember?


What does that have to do with being powered or not? So you're saying if he can walk, he should not be weakened, is that it?

It's just not possible. Not 24/7.

If we did not see it happen on panel, it is not canon, remember?

And to keep it in, he would have had to keep an extremely fine turned bio-electric field up 24/7 in order to break down the chemical bonds of the pheromones.

And here I thought you were the one boasting how Magneto can stand at ground zero in a nuclear meltdown without suffering any harm whatsoever. Surely , for such a superman , controlling his own bio-electric field, even 24-7 is no big deal.

You need to read Planet X again I see. Magneto talked about putting humans into "crematoriums", not gas chambers.

So just because Magneto chose crematoriums instead of gas chambers, no Nazi analogy is ever possible?

And now you insinuate that every man who enjoys Magneto as a character must be gay...

I said largely did I not , not solely, since a majority of Magneto fans tend to be women after all. And are you saying that sheer physical attraction/sexual desire is the only reason why women date bad boys? No, based on observation and experience, it's also because of the whole delusion that "he may be a jerk/bastard but he really has a heart of gold" , or as they say, the story trope of "patting the dog".

Keep diggin' that hole buddy.

What hole? I have managed to refute all points in argument, and it seems that all the fanatics can do to retort is to rely on the religious rhetoric of the Church of Erik.

So was that really "genocide" or an act of war?

Haw, semantics, genocide is war for Magneto since after all the Geneva Conventions don't apply to him, and that IS his whole raison de retre after all, quoted time and again: Mutants and Humans will never be able to live in peace so they can never co-exist.

[KiplingKat]

Silly me, and here I thought the whole "femme fatale bad girl" thing was typical teenage behavior.

I call it the actions of a child who thinks she is mature enough to be an adult.

So he was not interested in Magda, he was not interested in Rogue either, who as we all know, he made the Queen of his own team of Xmen in the AOA? Yeah right!

In the 616, Magda was only a couple years younger than him at the most, 16 to his 18. Not 16 to his 70. And in the 616, Rogue was in her twenties when he experienced that flash of lust in Uncanny #274.

Again, AoA is an alternate reality story and many fan take issue with that very creepy relationship.



Wow, you Jews are apparently so sensitive, I state a fact about 1930s/40s Eastern European Jewry, and you take it as a slur on the entire Jewish nation.

Guess what buddy, I'm not even Jewish and I see it as a slur when you insinuate that the Jews and Poles approve of 70 year old men taking advantage of 16 year old girls.

Let's see, how about Woody Allen and Roman Polanski.

Both of whom were condemned by society and had to go to court, one of whom fled the country.



Traditionally all over the world, young girls were married off to much older men when they came of age. Just look at the Polygamy sect scandal in your country.

Aaaand, you just refuted you own point thanks.

Have you watched the film "Fiddler in the Roof",which featured traditional Eastern European/Russian Jewish culture in the late 19th/early 20th century? I'd imagine the culture was still not that much different yet during Magneto's own youth.

Oh...my....gawd.

You think?...Seriously?

HA-hahahahaha!

Oh...Oh...

Ohmygawd.

AH-hahahaha!

He-hehe...*wipes tear from eye* ...Poland was the Jewish intellectual capital (at least in Europe), and as well as being a very vibrant artistic community. Jazz was a huge influence there (the Tango was also quite popular), many of the musicians being Jewish. I know Germany and Russia loved to paint it as a backwater before they invaded, but the fact was in many ways, Poland had the jump on them culturally.

If you want a more realistic look at Jewish culture in Poland at the time of WWII, I suggest reading Mandlekern's "Escape From the Nazis". There are also a series of film made in 1938 that show that the Jews in Poland were not "Fiddler on the Roof". http://www.wickedlocal.com/brookline/archive/x1611222177

Controlling something and not being affected by it are 2 different things. If he was immune to radioactivity, why does it give him bi-polar disorder then eh?

It doesn't. Radioactivity is not the reason for his bi-polar disoder, but the fact that he routes too much of the Earth's EM field through his nervous system, throwing the chemical balances of his brain out of whack.

Now this I have got to see for real. Why does he even bother diverting nuclear missles whenever they target him, why not just bask in them, since anyway, he won't be affected.

First of all, he wouldn't "bask in them", he would be reflecting the massive amount of energies they put out. Secondly, He didn't divert the two in Magneto War, they exploded right over him and he reflected their physical blasts as well as the radiation.

What does that have to do with being powered or not? So you're saying if he can walk, he should not be weakened, is that it?

Magneto's ability to use his power is dependant on the integrity of his nervous system. If he is injured, such as breaking an arm, it is difficult for him to route the earth's EM field through his body without pain. Wolverine severing his spinal chord in Eve of Destruction almost depowered him completely.

So IF Magneto was Xorn, who did he regain his powers and ability to walk after the massacre?

If we did not see it happen on panel, it is not canon, remember?

Right, and since we never see a superhero on the toilet, they must never have to pee. :rolleyes:

And here I thought you were the one boasting how Magneto can stand at ground zero in a nuclear meltdown without suffering any harm whatsoever. Surely , for such a superman , controlling his own bio-electric field, even 24-7 is no big deal.

For one thing there is that little matter of sleep. Or are you proposing Magneto never slept the entire time he was pretending to be Xorn?

Secondly, there is a difference between a shield to keep energies he readily controls out vs. a shield to keep something he does not readily control in.

So just because Magneto chose crematoriums instead of gas chambers, no Nazi analogy is ever possible?

No, its just further proof of Morrison's ignorance.

I said largely did I not , not solely, since a majority of Magneto fans tend to be women after all.

Prove it.

And are you saying that sheer physical attraction/sexual desire is the only reason why women date bad boys? No, based on observation and experience, it's also because of the whole delusion that "he may be a jerk/bastard but he really has a heart of gold" , or as they say, the story trope of "patting the dog".

A strawman should at least have something to do with what I said.

What hole? I have managed to refute all points in argument, and it seems that all the fanatics can do to retort is to rely on the religious rhetoric of the Church of Erik.

You know, the neo-con argumentative tacitcs are quite passe' by this point. Declaring victory when you have in fact lost quite badly may make you feel better, but people reading the thread can make up their own mind without you telling them "I won!"

BTW-His name is not Erik.

Haw, semantics, genocide is war for Magneto since after all the Geneva Conventions don't apply to him, and that IS his whole raison de retre after all, quoted time and again: Mutants and Humans will never be able to live in peace so they can never co-exist.

Actually they do. Magneto was declared a country in the conclusion of his trial in X-Men vs. the Avengers.

England and France did not think they would ever be able to co-exist in peace, and yet they were never genocidal...

A little more than "semantics" I think.

[brundlefly]

Magneto gained a cult following largely for the same reasons that women usually date bad boys.

since a majority of Magneto fans tend to be women after all.

:confused: Do you have numbers, citations, or anything factual that supports this drivel? I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt before, but you're just inventing stuff wholesale now simply to back up your endless ranting.


I have managed to refute all points in argument, and it seems that all the fanatics can do to retort is to rely on the religious rhetoric of the Church of Erik.

In your own mind, you may have. It's quite easy when you just make stuff up out of thin air to back up your points, then declare yourself the "victor" and everyone who disagrees with you "fanatics." :rolleyes: I think that someone still ranting and crying about a comicbook retcon over four years after it took place better fits the bill of a "fanatic." Get. Over. It.

*sigh* Kipling, Rivka? Let's stop feeding this troll, please.

[lockerogue]

Why isn't this closed yet?

[darknessatnoon]

Why isn't this closed yet?

I feel this thread has started to make a lot of sense, actually. I now support it.

[Rivka]

*sigh* Kipling, Rivka? Let's stop feeding this troll, please.

For my part, I completely agree.

"Woody Allen," "Roman Polanski," and "Fiddler on the Roof" have pretty much done me in.

[KiplingKat]

*sigh* Kipling, Rivka? Let's stop feeding this troll, please.

Excellent suggestion.

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

For my part, I agree that we will all have to disagree since it is obvious that like so many other demagogues through history, Magneto's acolytes will never stop making excuses to justify whatever he does , until it becomes too egregious for even they to rationalize, at which point fan pressure will be applied for yet another retcon to continuity ( sighs ) .

I think that someone still ranting and crying about a comicbook retcon over four years after it took place better fits the bill of a "fanatic." Get. Over. It.

Hehehehehehe, Pot calling Kettle Black! You're just able to say that simply because it's your side that benefited from the retcon, if it had never happened, you'd be the ones complaining right now about it. After all, it was the collective failure of Magneto's fans to get over everything that happened after CC left the x-books that ultimately led to Excalibur Volume 2 or " Charles and Erik in Genosha " .

That said : a final response to some points raised:

I call it the actions of a child who thinks she is mature enough to be an adult.

And how else are teenagers usually characterized?

Again, AoA is an alternate reality story and many fan take issue with that very creepy relationship.

An alternate reality which was basically MU-616 until the point of divergence when David Haller accidentally killed his own father.

So IF Magneto was Xorn, who did he regain his powers and ability to walk after the massacre?

As he himself stated in Planet X, he recovered with the help of his followers in China. And he did have a Chinese ex-fangirl after all, Astra, who was once in love with him, who desired to control him enough that she created her own clone of him, and who has access to advanced alien technology thanks to her own celestial-teleportation powers, which she had already used before to CURE him after Xavier mindwiped him. Of course, we never saw this happen on-panel but then again, we never saw Wanda supposedly resurrect Magneto ( according to your theories ) in Genosha did we now ?

For one thing there is that little matter of sleep. Or are you proposing Magneto never slept the entire time he was pretending to be Xorn?


Magneto's supposed to be such a force of nature that it has been stated that like his supposed daughter Polaris ( another retcon I hate, but that's a thread for another time ) , he can draw sustenance from the Earth's EM field itself. For all we know, he doesn't may not need to actually sleep anymore, and even if he still does, surely he can still manipulate his own bio-EM field even while asleep, since like you yourself said, he channels the planet's EM energy 24-7 through his body.

Prove it.

Ok , I will correct that, the majority of his fanatics ( not just ordinary fans ) are women . After all, how many characters do you see with such obsessed female devotees like Patty Cockrum and Rivka, among others? Not even Gambit fans are that over-the-top!

BTW-His name is not Erik.

Wow, so if his name is not Erik , who is this Erik that we have all been referring to all this while ? You should say , his name is not just Erik, but to say that his name is not Erik, why , you are contradicting the canon of not only the comics, but also the novels, cartoons , the movies, the videogames, etc.

Actually they do. Magneto was declared a country in the conclusion of his trial in X-Men vs. the Avengers.


If I recall, that exactly was the reason why he was able to escape being punished for crimes against humanity, because he had not signed the Geneva Conventions ( and he apparently still has not signed them yet ).

England and France did not think they would ever be able to co-exist in peace, and yet they were never genocidal...

Tell that to Magneto , he's the one who always goes on and on about the practical impossibility of human-mutant co-existence , like in the prologue to the Magneto War. After all, this is why he sought to finally conquer the world once and for all in Eve of Destruction.

[KiplingKat]

Wow, so if his name is not Erik , who is this Erik that we have all been referring to all this while ? You should say , his name is not just Erik, but to say that his name is not Erik, why , you are contradicting the canon of not only the comics, but also the novels, cartoons , the movies, the videogames, etc.

X-Men #72. The "Erik Lehnsherr, Sinte Gypsy" I.D. was revealed to be a forgery.

Cannon.

Which is why you might actually want to read about the character, and history in general for that matter, before arguing about them.

Buh-bye now!:biggrin:

[just another user]

He's always been Erik or Magnus to me. What are we meant to be calling him?

[KiplingKat]

He's always been Erik or Magnus to me. What are we meant to be calling him?

He was just "Magnus" (which is how he was introduced to Xavier in Israel in Uncanny #161) up until the retcon I.D. reveal in X-Men Unlimited #2 in1993 ( I say "retcon" because while his name had not been established, his ethnicity had). It was only after that everyone started calling him "Erik".

The I.D. was retconned again in 1998 to be a forgery, but it was too late. The name had stuck with lazy writers (Heck, Reginald Hudlin still thought Magneto was a Gypsy at the time of House of M), and characters still call him "Erik", though sometimes "Magnus" pops up with more conscientious writers.

I call him "Magnus", because "M" seems to be an important part of his name and may have some root in his real name. And we know for sure that "Erik" is a forgery. However, the only time I'm going to be nitpicky about it is with Trolls who act like they know so much more than I, when they clearly do not. :wink:

Magneto: Testament is supposed to answer the question of what his real name is once and for all.

[darknessatnoon]

He was just "Magnus" (which is how he was introduced to Xavier in Israel in Uncanny #161) up until the retcon I.D. reveal in X-Men Unlimited #2 in1993 ( I say "retcon" because while his name had not been established, his ethnicity had). It was only after that everyone started calling him "Erik".

The I.D. was retconned again in 1998 to be a forgery, but it was too late. The name had stuck with lazy writers (Heck, Reginald Hudlin still thought Magneto was a Gypsy at the time of House of M), and characters still call him "Erik", though sometimes "Magnus" pops up with more conscientious writers.

I call him "Magnus", because "M" seems to be an important part of his name and may have some root in his real name. And we know for sure that "Erik" is a forgery. However, the only time I'm going to be nitpicky about it is with Trolls who act like they know so much more than I, when they clearly do not. :wink:

Magneto: Testament is supposed to answer the question of what his real name is once and for all.

I'll be heartily entertained if it turns out that the numb-nut, Magneto, really is named Erik and, being totally paranoid, had his own name forged as a double-feint.

[KiplingKat]

I'll be heartily entertained if it turns out that the numb-nut, Magneto, really is named Erik and, being totally paranoid, had his own name forged as a double-feint.

Given that they have made Magneto's father German rather than Polish (which the way he always talked he was raised and living in Poland when WWII started), I have a awful feeling that might be the case: That they are trying to re-legitimze the "Erik Lehnsherr" name, which would make no sense whatsoever, not only logically, but given the things Magneto said in that issue, and the fact that he was also trying to find his wife, who was running from him. Also that is quite the Scandinavian & Germanic name for a Jewish family.

Wouldn't surprise me, but I really hope that is not the case. It would be a dumb thing to do that would make Marvel look really foolish.