Superman: God, Man, Both, or Neither?

[Assassin Spider]

The question of Superman's nature that has been oh-so-hotly debated among fans since sometime after Crisis on Infinite Earths is, quite simply, "How do you see Superman? Do you see him as a god in humanlike flesh? Do you see him as a man with the power of a god? Do you see him as both man and god? Do you see him as neither, due to his alien origin?"

I have heard it said, again and again, that a writer who claims that he will try to make Superman "relatable," i.e. emphasize what makes him human or, rather, "more like you and me," is watering down --- if not neutering --- Superman. I didn't use to give it much thought, but the endurance of such claims and sentiments was something that I was compelled to ponder out of sheer boredom. Then I started asking myself questions about that particular sentiment.

Superman is already a physical god, with the strength to move mountains (if not planets), the swiftness to circle the planet within less than a minute, the ability to soar above us all like a bird, borderline invincibility, eyes that stream fire and see far more than we can, ears that can hear things that we cannot, and a mind sharper than anything we can imagine. However, despite these grand abilities, he prefers to think of himself as merely a man who happens to have great talents and who feels morally obligated to use those talents to do right by humanity even if he is truly not part of it. In fact, it is that very humility that proves his strength of character, far more so than someone like Lex Luthor, who feels that his own not-inconsiderable talents give him the right of rulership over us "mere mortals."

The problem, as I see it, lies more with certain "fans" of Superman than it does with the writers, no matter how mediocre. (After all, an inadequate writer can be replaced if editorial eventually decides that his direction is no longer the direction it wants.) Superman is an inspiration because with all his power, he chooses to use it to serve mankind rather than rule mankind, eschewing "godhood." Unfortunately, certain so-called fans believe that it is that physical godhood that should be emphasized, in the sense that Superman should have the mindset of a "truly enlightened, superior being," that he shouldn't be "afflicted" by "mortal" (human) frailties.

What these fans are forgetting is that gods are very fickle and often very cruel creatures. Because these gods have nigh-infinite power over the physical world and over the mortals inhabiting that world, they often feel empowered to demand worship and fealty and any slight on the mortals' part (real or perceived) is excuse for a retaliation nothing short of utterly devastating to those mortals' lives. Even the Christian God, particularly in the Old Testament, is not immune to this; how many times did he empower a particular people to utterly annihilate another culture and then revoke his "divine empowerment" in the face of an enemy threat to punish them for turning their backs on him? Do you really want Superman to be that kind of god?

[caboose]

I never understood the point people make when they say Superman is not identifiable enough. I thought the whole part about Clark Kent was that when he can't use his powers or readily display them he is as human as anyone.

That being said, Superman very much is a God who loves the people more than his own stature. Like modern interpretations of Herakles perhaps. He could very easily rule Earth like a God but has no inlcination to do so.

[Flash's Lightning]

Opening dialogue from Superman: The Man of Steel #2; doesn't answer the question entirely, but I thought it might help. :wink: It's a conversation between Keith and Myra. (I miss both Keith and Myra, btw, but that's not here or there.)

"An' thank you God 'cause Cerberus is stopped an'...Oh yeah, I forgot. Thank you Superman for stoppin' him."

"Now wait just a minute, Keith! Superman ain't God! You don't go thankin' him on your knees."

"But Myra, you said God hears everything I say to him...even a whisper. An' you said Superman's got super ears an' he can hear me too, even if I whisper. You said he'd hear me say thank you."

"Yeah, sure I did, honey. But Superman ain't like God. God's in heaven and he knows everything and he made everybody. Even Superman. But Superman...he's just one man strugglin' like the rest of us 'gainst the evil here on earth."

[Bored at 3:00AM]

There's many different interpretations that work for me, but the one I like the best is that Superman is a God who thinks he's a Man.

[BYC]

There's many different interpretations that work for me, but the one I like the best is that Superman is a God who thinks he's a Man.
Bingo. Which is one of his greatest flaws.

[KryptonianFan315]

Superman is a God among men. He is the exception to every rule, he defies gods "plans" or mans Fate (one in the same). But he is not God or even A God, Gods have always been, and Superman was born.

[Tetsuo_man]

I'm sorry for the religious connotation but like i like my jesus i like my superman being both man and god. Man i hope that didn't sound sacriligious.

[KryptonianFan315]

Can Jesus fly? Does Jesus have the ability to shoot fire from his eyes? Does Jesus have super strength? How good is Jesus' hearing?
Now on the flip side Superman can't turn water into wine and thats a pretty cool trick. But Superman also can't get nails stuck through his hands and even if he did he would find a way out of it, can Jesus do that?

[Xybernauts]

I don't think Supermans a god (SMALL CASE) at all. I mean based on that logic, all the DC superheroes are gods. Should we also worship Zod, Bizzaro, or even Brainiac?


I prefer to think of Superman as a man who is from a society who achieved a heighten state of spiritual evolution; Krypton. So yes he is a human being, just like you and me, but he is just ascended. His mindset is more evolved; but instead of using that intelligence for scientific pursuits like the rest of his people, he uses that intellect for moral pursuits.

I think anyone of us could ascend to such heights. What makes him great has nothing to do with his powers. It's his morality that makes him great. Any of us can reach such heights. I think that's what makes him so special, Superman inspires other heroes to strive such moral uprightness. Like Batman, you don't need powers to be as great as Superman, all you need is a sense of true "justice". He inspires heroes to use their powers responsibly to better mankind. I think the graphic novel "Kingdom Come" best illustrates this aspect of Superman. He's a man who strives to rise to god like standards of righteousness. And like Jesus he sets an example that tells us that any of us can do the same.

But don't get me wrong, Superman isn't Jesus, theirs only one true Savior.



Can Jesus fly? Does Jesus have the ability to shoot fire from his eyes? Does Jesus have super strength? How good is Jesus' hearing?
Now on the flip side Superman can't turn water into wine and thats a pretty cool trick. But Superman also can't get nails stuck through his hands and even if he did he would find a way out of it, can Jesus do that?

Originally Superman couldn't fly either. If Jesus had as many stories and writers constantly rewriting his history I'm sure he'd have heat vision, super-strength and a lot more. But for the record, Jesus can hear your prayers, so I guess he does have superhearing and Jesus did ascend into heaven body and soul, and he did walk on water; so technically he can fly.

[MaxofSteel]

I'm gonna say both man and god.

[Joe Acro]

I see him as neither. He's not a god. There are plenty of those in DC. Greek Pantheon, New Gods, the mystic order the current Shazam works under, etc. If he's to be compared to God, he's not all-seeing, omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent (or at least shouldn't be, in my estimation). If he's to be compared to a god of a pantheon, he doesn't really fill a specific niche.

But he is an alien. A powerful alien at that. And although he hides in the disguise of a man, he isn't a man. He knows this. He knows in his heart that he doesn't quite fit with the rest of society, but this won't stop him from using his alien nature to better that society as best he can.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I see him as a god among men. A god trying to live the life of man, and enjoying it while at it.

My Superman is a guy who can move planets, destroy them with a single punch, hold black holes in his hand, ignite stars with his Heat Vision and blow them off with his Super-breath. But even though he's got all of these powers, and he could rule Earth if he so desired, he has chosen to protect us and lead us to a better tomorow by example. A god whose hand doesn't shake when it's time to get his hands dirty, and who loves to help everyone: From rescuing cats from trees, to avoiding the total dstruction of the universe. A god who lives among us as a mild-mannered reporter, and enjoys it.

A god who loves pretzels. :biggrin:

[Tetsuo_man]

I'm gonna say both man and god.

I want to shake your hand.

[KryptonianFan315]

I don't think Supermans a god (SMALL CASE) at all. I mean based on that logic, all the DC superheroes are gods. Should we also worship Zod, Bizzaro, or even Brainiac?


I prefer to think of Superman as a man who is from a society who achieved a heighten state of spiritual evolution; Krypton. So yes he is a human being, just like you and me, but he is just ascended. His mindset is more evolved; but instead of using that intelligence for scientific pursuits like the rest of his people, he uses that intellect for moral pursuits.

I think anyone of us could ascend to such heights. What makes him great has nothing to do with his powers. It's his morality that makes him great. Any of us can reach such heights. I think that's what makes him so special, Superman inspires other heroes to strive such moral uprightness. Like Batman, you don't need powers to be as great as Superman, all you need is a sense of true "justice". He inspires heroes to use their powers responsibly to better mankind. I think the graphic novel "Kingdom Come" best illustrates this aspect of Superman. He's a man who strives to rise to god like standards of righteousness. And like Jesus he sets an example that tells us that any of us can do the same.

But don't get me wrong, Superman isn't Jesus, theirs only one true Savior.





Originally Superman couldn't fly either. If Jesus had as many stories and writers constantly rewriting his history I'm sure he'd have heat vision, super-strength and a lot more. But for the record, Jesus can hear your prayers, so I guess he does have superhearing and Jesus did ascend into heaven body and soul, and he did walk on water; so technically he can fly.

my original post was a bit tounge and cheek. I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying, its not like Superman demands us to kneel before him and worship him. But if he wanted to we would have no choice in the matter

[Tetsuo_man]

my original post was a bit tounge and cheek. I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying, its not like Superman demands us to kneel before him and worship him. But if he wanted to we would have no choice in the matter

YOu know what i'm thinking about now? Kneel before me son of...well you get the point:tongue:

[BYC]

I think the problem is that many people confuse that God is infallible and gods are infallible. I'm more surprised that comic fans like us have that confusion. Gods like Thor, Darkseid, Metron, Mr. Miracle, etc, make mistakes all the time. Greek gods of myth make mistakes. But somehow, many people believe Superman is infallible, whether or not he's considered a god or not. Superman to the people within the fiction might believe he's infallible, but fans in real life should know better.

Superman is often considered a god because of what he can do, and what he does do (without mixing too much real life problems into the comics world). He helps the helpless, he gives without asking in return. People associate those traits while forgetting gods have negative traits as well such as oppression, hatred, cruelty, pettiness, etc..

It shows how popular and well-known Superman is that people in real life compare him to a god while not associating the negative things gods can represent.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

YOu know what i'm thinking about now? Kneel before me son of...well you get the point:tongue:

You better listen to him, KryptonianFan. Didn't you watch Akira????:tongue:

[Tetsuo_man]

Any day now i'll become some big gigantic blob because of some drugs.:tongue:

[666MasterOfPuppets]

LOL. I'll be sure to keep them away from you.

[rZi]

Superman to me was always someone who had the physical powers of a god and the heart of a human, if you understand my meaning.

He does not consider himself high or mighty, and it would be so easy for him to do so

[AdamYJ]

I think of him as just being a man with a whole lot of power, really.

It really puzzles me that we can refer to someone as being like a god when they're really just very powerful. Shouldn't there be some sort of higher, more spiritual factor in determining that someone is "godlike"?

[KryptonianFan315]

I think of him as just being a man with a whole lot of power, really.

It really puzzles me that we can refer to someone as being like a god when they're really just very powerful. Shouldn't there be some sort of higher, more spiritual factor in determining that someone is "godlike"?

It really depends on your definition of God. It my opinion God is someone that gives hope, honor, protects "his/her" people. All of which is Superman. Whether its the bible, coran (sorry don't know how to spell that) or a comic book its all about mythology...

[AdamYJ]

It really depends on your definition of God. It my opinion God is someone that gives hope, honor, protects "his/her" people. All of which is Superman. Whether its the bible, coran (sorry don't know how to spell that) or a comic book its all about mythology...

A god can do that, but so can a man. Especially a hero.

I've never been particularly religious. And while I like mythology, I was never as interested in the gods lounging around on Olympus as I was the mortal and half-mortal heroes. Perseus, Theseus, Jason, Hercules (before he got "promoted") and guys like that.

[KryptonianFan315]

A god can do that, but so can a man. Especially a hero.

I've never been particularly religious. And while I like mythology, I was never as interested in the gods lounging around on Olympus as I was the mortal and half-mortal heroes. Perseus, Theseus, Jason, Hercules (before he got "promoted") and guys like that.

Thats my point, Superman will never be a God to a person that goes to church every week and defines themself by the God they believe in, but to someone like you and me he is the equivelent. Its all about morality, and the Superman Mythology has great lessons. Its like the bible without the claim that God himself dictated it to a bunch of men in caves.

[AdamYJ]

I'm afraid that this conversation's just a little too heavy for me. I'm going to back out now.

[NotSuper]

He's both.

Superman's desire is to help humanity and set an example. He's a god who walks among us, a benevolent deity who would give his life to save Earth. And he asks for nothing in return. He's a god who doesn't need worshipers, rituals, sacrifices, nor does he impose his own moral code on the world with the threat of punishment. He's here to help without controlling others.

He's the ultimate god, and the ultimate man.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

That was a really good post, NotSuper.

[Surtur]

Bingo. Which is one of his greatest flaws.

Flaw? No, I'd say it's one of his greatest strengths.

[MaxofSteel]

I want to shake your hand.

*Shakes hand* :tongue:

[KryptonianFan315]

He's both.

Superman's desire is to help humanity and set an example. He's a god who walks among us, a benevolent deity who would give his life to save Earth. And he asks for nothing in return. He's a god who doesn't need worshipers, rituals, sacrifices, nor does he impose his own moral code on the world with the threat of punishment. He's here to help without controlling others.

He's the ultimate god, and the ultimate man.

NotSuper, I believe you have found the essence as to why I am such a Superman fan. Very well put!

[Xybernauts]

So when the lot of you mean god, do you mean like the next Olympian god, or do you mean "the" definitive god? I do see Superman as the modern version of an angel, but I think calling him a god might be taking a little too far. I mean it's not like he created the universe....or did he? :biggrin:

He's both.

He's a god who doesn't need worshipers, rituals, sacrifices, nor does he impose his own moral code on the world with the threat of punishment. He's here to help without controlling others.




That's the thing, he does impose his own moral code. For example in Kingdom Come he forces the next generation superheroes who follow Magog's no-hold-bar definition of what it means to be a superhero to follow his definition of what it means to be a hero. Anyone who didn't reform he threw in a super-prison out in Kansas.

I mean Superman is a great mythical character, but let's not mistake him for a god. If we prescribe to such a standard then we would end up worshiping Doctor Who, Spiderman, Yoda, Optimus Prime, Neo of the Matrix, etc. It's a radical idea, but I think it's merit is questionable.

[Xybernauts]

I found something that technically proves that Superman wasn't meant to be interpreted as god as some people suggest.

I was on another thread 'Should I name my son 'Clark'?' While on the thread I was compelled to look up the meaning of the name Kal-El.

Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El," resembles the Hebrew words קל-אל, which can be taken to mean "voice of God".[34] [35]. The suffix "el", meaning "(of) God"[36] is also found in the name of angels (e.g. Gabriel, Ariel), who are flying humanoid agents of good with superhuman powers.

As the quote from a Wiki points out; El is a suffix given to angels. For example Gabriel or Gabri-El. So the El in Kal-El's name confirms that Superman is meant to be interpreted as an angel not a god. Also, as the quote above points out, 'el' means "of God". Superman comes from God but he isn't meant to replace God. Remember that Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were Jewish so God most likely is a reference to the Hebrew God.

So please stop it with this "He's a god who doesn't need worshipers, rituals, sacrifices, nor does he impose his own moral code on the world with the threat of punishment." nonsense.

[delsin2]

For me he is a man gifted with super powers which r given to him by God.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

So when the lot of you mean god, do you mean like the next Olympian god, or do you mean "the" definitive god? I do see Superman as the modern version of an angel, but I think calling him a god might be taking a little too far. I mean it's not like he created the universe....or did he? :biggrin:

As an olympian god, if anything. I think none of us meant what you say, Superman being "the" god. We are aware he's not a god, in the sense of being able to alter reality or stuff like that. But he does have immense power.

Although he DID create a world once. Or something close to that (Metropia).

That's the thing, he does impose his own moral code. For example in Kingdom Come he forces the next generation superheroes who follow Magog's no-hold-bar definition of what it means to be a superhero to follow his definition of what it means to be a hero. Anyone who didn't reform he threw in a super-prison out in Kansas.

I mean Superman is a great mythical character, but let's not mistake him for a god. If we prescribe to such a standard then we would end up worshiping Doctor Who, Spiderman, Yoda, Optimus Prime, Neo of the Matrix, etc. It's a radical idea, but I think it's merit is questionable.

The Kingdom Come Superman is different from the mainstream version of Superman. In KC, we dealt with a tired, older Superman. A Superman who almost had given up hope on mankind.

I found something that technically proves that Superman wasn't meant to be interpreted as god as some people suggest.

I was on another thread 'Should I name my son 'Clark'?' While on the thread I was compelled to look up the meaning of the name Kal-El.

As the quote from a Wiki points out; El is a suffix given to angels. For example Gabriel or Gabri-El. So the El in Kal-El's name confirms that Superman is meant to be interpreted as an angel not a god. Also, as the quote above points out, 'el' means "of God". Superman comes from God but he isn't meant to replace God. Remember that Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were Jewish so God most likely is a reference to the Hebrew God.

So please stop it with this "He's a god who doesn't need worshipers, rituals, sacrifices, nor does he impose his own moral code on the world with the threat of punishment." nonsense.

It's not only because he's powerful, but because there are religious allegories in his backstory.

Like I said, he's not a god, in the sense of being able to alter time and space, but his powers do have god-like levels.

And of course, this possible future version of Superman in the 853rd century IS indeed a god.

[Xybernauts]

And of course, this possible future version of Superman in the 853rd century IS indeed a god.

What comic and issue is the 853rd century Superman god in?

Do you mean a civilliatation worship him like a god or do you mean he's even more powerful to god like propotions?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

He's more powerful. Waaaaaaaayyyyyy more powerful. It was an arc called DC One Million.

[WyldCard4]

He is probably closest to an Angel or Demigod, a child or servent of a god sent to guide mankind, closer to Jesus than his Father, I don't think there is a really good mythical precursor to him that I can think of, Jesus was a God himself while mythical gods were nothing like him and far worse, heroes no better.

[pakx]

Grant Morrison said it best:

"Superman is a god who thinks he's a man.

Lex Luthor is a man who thinks he's a god."

[J. Robb]

There's many different interpretations that work for me, but the one I like the best is that Superman is a God who thinks he's a Man.
I like that one as well.

[Damiean Dark]

No way is he a god for all his power he can die and if where basing it on power Mr. Myxyzptlk (who will always be more powerful then superman) is god himself. Superman is an alien from an advanced culture who came to earth and was raised in the right way by his parents the yellow sun is still his source of power although he has stored loads of energy over the decades he will still be reduced to a normal mortal if away for a (really) long time. kryptonite is thwe big weakness of course but superman cant even hold his breath indefinately to long underwater or in space and he is toast.

[BYC]

Some people are taking the term "god" far too seriously. It's merely a term to describe another's ability whose far outstrips our own. I'm sure all of us have heard it used in every terms.

"Kobe Bryant is a basketball god"
"That guy is a god at Unreal tournament"
"Daigo is a god at Street Fighter"
"Tiger Woods is the god of golf"
"This guy has the micro skills of a god at Starcraft"
"Angelina Jolie is a goddess"

Superheroes are already greater than ordinary people, but Superman outstrips most of them. Therefore, he is called a god. In Superman's case, his origin and creation by Shuster and Siegel is an allegory to the Abrahamic "God" and later, Jesus Christ.

Beings with abilities that outstrips our own are often asked to do more for us. Depending on how good that being is, they are asked ridiculous things. Tiger Wood is often asked to stop racism and to support the fight against racism. Angelina Jolie traveled the world as an ambassador to try and bring attention to certain problems. And etc. Often, those do it becase it shows their humanity. Some do it because they actually care. Others do it because it helps their career for a purely selfish reason.

My point is simply since Superman is so powerful in the realm of comics, in addition to being created by Jewish immigrants as a means for acceptance, he is saddled with this question. Superman's background in real life and in comics history makes this question much more unique to him. We don't ask if Reed Richards is a god, even though he can clearly create machines and solutions to almost every problem known to man, but we ask Superman instead.

[mgs]

There's many different interpretations that work for me, but the one I like the best is that Superman is a God who thinks he's a Man.

I like that one. Though I, personally, don't like to think of Superman as a god.

I think Morrison has it right in his way of explaining things. (Check out his CBR boat show interview on this). He says that while supes is this way, Lex is all messed up b/c he's a man who thinks he's a god, and that's why he'll always fail. Their juxtaposition is something I never thought of before hearing Grant say this.