Paul Dini's work on Detective Comics / What is Your Verdict ?

[sabongero]

It has been a couple of years since Paul Dini has assumed the helm on Detective Comics. Those one and done issue stories were good. A throwback to old fashioned comic book writing. And I mean that in a positive way.

I think the memorable things he's done on the title is his interpretation of The Riddler. I never ever thought of thinking of The Riddler in such a way. That was absolutely fantastic. At the same time, a female Scarface was introduced as well. What other memorable items could you say happened during Dini's run?

[earl]

Dini's issue with The Joker and Robin in the stolen car was a classic. I think it was one of the best single issue Batman related stories of the last 20 years. That thing will eventually end up getting reprinted over again as the years go on.

I think being able to craft a tight one issue story is pretty difficult. It seems to be a lost art in a lot of super hero comics, many of which seem to be caught in a never ending soap opera storyline.

[Ferrian]

Dini has done a great job on Detective Comics. I loved the Zatanna/Joker arc.

[pariah-1972]

Dini's issue with The Joker and Robin in the stolen car was a classic. I think it was one of the best single issue Batman related stories of the last 20 years. That thing will eventually end up getting reprinted over again as the years go on.

I think being able to craft a tight one issue story is pretty difficult. It seems to be a lost art in a lot of super hero comics, many of which seem to be caught in a never ending soap opera storyline.Give this man a cookie !

[vazel]

It's good although I wish DC would stop with all those damn crossovers muddying up the title.

[Paul Dee]

It started off exceptionally with the JH Williams IIII issue. The art took a slight downturn after that although since this is a Dini thread that's irrelevant and the stories were still great overall. I really iked his use of the Riddler and the new Ventriloquist and the done-in-one style of the stories. However, since the Zatanna/Joker story I've really lost interest in Detective Comics. It hasn't helped that it's been ruined by the insertion of crossover stories (The Resurection of Ra's Al Ghul, Countdown Athenian Woman's Shelter etc) but especially since the new artist took over I've been getting them with the intention of reading them later at some point and just never bothering. Whilst obviously editorially mandated to a large extent the issue where Batman puts Ra's away in Arkham was without a doubt the sloppiest thing Dini has done on Detective since he started


I'll try and give the last few months a go soon

[Cornelius Stirk]

it's been good, rather than spectacular. I've liked a few of the issues unreservedly, Slayride and the new Ventriloquist origin issue-the last issue was good too. There have been some out and out duds though, the Mad Hatter issue was a waste and the Riidler/Harley issue was also terrible.

[pariah-1972]

It started off exceptionally with the JH Williams IIII issue. The art took a slight downturn after that although since this is a Dini thread that's irrelevant and the stories were still great overall. I really iked his use of the Riddler and the new Ventriloquist and the done-in-one style of the stories. However, since the Zatanna/Joker story I've really lost interest in Detective Comics. It hasn't helped that it's been ruined by the insertion of crossover stories (The Resurection of Ra's Al Ghul, Countdown Athenian Woman's Shelter etc) but especially since the new artist took over I've been getting them with the intention of reading them later at some point and just never bothering. Whilst obviously editorially mandated to a large extent the issue where Batman puts Ra's away in Arkham was without a doubt the sloppiest thing Dini has done on Detective since he started


I'll try and give the last few months a go soonWhat issue was the zantanna/ joker story?

[matthewaos]

Dini's run is amazing! I love everything he did.

[Schornforce]

I like that Dini reformed Riddler and Harley and hope both stay that way.

I liked the new Ventriloquist and the Zatanna/Batman issues as well.

[Paul Dee]

What issue was the zantanna/ joker story?

It's a two-part story in #833 and #834

[Mia]

It has been a couple of years since Paul Dini has assumed the helm on Detective Comics. Those one and done issue stories were good. A throwback to old fashioned comic book writing. And I mean that in a positive way.



I disagree, I find nothing about Dini's run that is a 'throw' back to anything but recent stuff.


Frankly it's no different than what Beatty, Gabrych, Willinghham and Lapham runs on the book during this decade. Just boring a tedious, nothing that makes me anxious for the next issue or makes me want to run down to the comic book shop the day it's released. There is no drama or character development in this issue whatsoever. The conversation between Batman and Catwoman in the last issue is a tired re-tread that's been done a million times

I can see why Morisson's Batman's almost double that of Dini's and why it certainly garners more chatter from fans on various message boards.

[stealthwise]

I disagree, I find nothing about Dini's run that is a 'throw' back to anything but recent stuff.


Frankly it's no different than what Beatty, Gabrych, Willinghham and Lapham runs on the book during this decade. Just boring a tedious, nothing that makes me anxious for the next issue or makes me want to run down to the comic book shop the day it's released. There is no drama or character development in this issue whatsoever. The conversation between Batman and Catwoman in the last issue is a tired re-tread that's been done a million times

I can see why Morisson's Batman's almost double that of Dini's and why it certainly garners more chatter from fans on various message boards.

Have you actually read all of Dini's run, or are you basing this on the recent issue?

[LukeRed5]

For me there have been some really good issues, but I don't think it's the greatest ever.

[sabongero]

I disagree, I find nothing about Dini's run that is a 'throw' back to anything but recent stuff.

Frankly it's no different than what Beatty, Gabrych, Willinghham and Lapham runs on the book during this decade. Just boring a tedious, nothing that makes me anxious for the next issue or makes me want to run down to the comic book shop the day it's released. There is no drama or character development in this issue whatsoever. The conversation between Batman and Catwoman in the last issue is a tired re-tread that's been done a million times

I can see why Morisson's Batman's almost double that of Dini's and why it certainly garners more chatter from fans on various message boards.

Hi ya Mia. Welcome to the thread, as usual, your discussion will always be entertaining.

You have the right to disagree with me of course.

When I mentioned "throwback", it was meant as old-school comic book writing, wherein single issue stories are done, with rarely two-issue storyarcs. I haven't read one in a while, so it was good to see Paul Dini using that format.

Morrison threads will certainly double or triple, etc any Dini threads in regards to Batman, because they hype is all Morrison at this time.

Let me point out that I have never followed the Batman in comic books, whether it was Batman or Detective Comics. What made me like Batman, was the Batman, The Animated Series.

This made me start buying Detective Comics at issue #821 and Batman at issue #655.

And the only Batman/Catwoman banter I have seen is from the animated feature, so for a newbie in the Batman comic book world, anything Bats is pretty cool to me. And I can enjoy it for the sole purpose of entertainment only.

By the way, how's your Batman story coming along ? Why don't you PM me a link so I can read it.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

His run's dull as hell.

Dini's often lauded for his use of single issue stories, but he doesn't deserve credit when they're this boring.

That Ivy S&M issue still irks me, and his Ventriloquist pales in comparison to the original (so far. I'll give any new character a chance, but the mystical implications for Scarface in her origin story are just ridiculous).

[Choppa]

Dini's issue with The Joker and Robin in the stolen car was a classic. I think it was one of the best single issue Batman related stories of the last 20 years. That thing will eventually end up getting reprinted over again as the years go on.

It's also a big continuity glitch. Batman tells Tim that he was able to handle the Joker on his own. But what about this story from when Tim first started? I guess Dini doesn't read Batman?

http://www.mjcomicsandcollectables.com/comics/Collections/collections%20006.jpg

[dancj]

Looks like someone got suckered by variant covers...

Personally I'm findin his run pretty dull. I'm most of the way through the 2nd TPB and TBH I enjoyed the Stuart Moore story more than the Dini ones.

I voted 2, in the poll, but really I fall between a 1 and a 2 out of the choices given.

[dancj]

Double Post

[LEADER DESSLOK]

It's The (best) *G.D.mn* Batman I've read in a LO-ONG time! What was his first issue, I want to get a complete collection!

[BrikHed21]

Dini's Batman is a nice compliment to Morrison's Batman and allows DC to play both sides of the fence. I like it and enjoy most of the issues. There are some that I open and run through and at the end feel like I got nothing out of the story.

I give him a solid "B"

[carabas]

What? Nothing inbetween 'okay' and 'so bad I quit DC comics altogether' ?

I think his run is considerably less than okay, but quite that awful.

[AlistairCrane]

I'm pretty satisfied with Dini's run, but I very much prefer Don Kramer's art to Dustin Nguyen's.

[carabas]

I disagree, I find nothing about Dini's run that is a 'throw' back to anything but recent stuff.


Frankly it's no different than what Beatty, Gabrych, Willinghham and Lapham runs on the book during this decade. Just boring a tedious, nothing that makes me anxious for the next issue or makes me want to run down to the comic book shop the day it's released. There is no drama or character development in this issue whatsoever. The conversation between Batman and Catwoman in the last issue is a tired re-tread that's been done a million times

I can see why Morisson's Batman's almost double that of Dini's and why it certainly garners more chatter from fans on various message boards.I completely subscribe this post, except to add that while Gabrych was similar in style, his stories were a lot better plotted out (didn't read Lapham).

It's gotten slightly better since he stopped doing mystery stories with one or less suspects, but it's still dull as dishwater.

Slayride was awesome though.

[AlistairCrane]

I completely subscribe this post, except to add that while Gabrych was similar in style, his stories were a lot better plotted out (didn't read Lapham).

It's gotten slightly better since he stopped doing mystery stories with one or less suspects, but it's still dull as dishwater.

Slayride was awesome though.

I agree about the lack of character development and intrigue. It really reads as a slightly-less watered-down episode of BTAS, but there's nothing really propelling the book other than the desire to see a neoclassic take on Batman.

[Tanjint]

I love it, but I wish he he would get a Tony Daniel/Andy Kubert level artist.

I only have read Detective, Death and the City and Resurrection of Ra's (the collections) but based on what I've been hearing about the more recent parts of the run and my curiosity about Nguyen's art, I think I'll like the rest at least as much if not more.

I also think it's a nice compliment to Morrison's run. We have one big epic story unfolding and another with relatively self contained adventures.

-T

[Mr. Palmer]

I've really enjoyed the title. It's a nice companion to the main book.

The only thing that I don't dig is a good guy Riddler. I'd really like to see him become a villain, again.

[brundlefly]

it's been good, rather than spectacular. I've liked a few of the issues unreservedly, Slayride and the new Ventriloquist origin issue-the last issue was good too. There have been some out and out duds though, the Mad Hatter issue was a waste and the Riidler/Harley issue was also terrible.

I agree with you on Dini's high (Slayride, new Ventriloquist) and low (Mad Hatter/Tweedledee/Tweedledum & Riddler/Harley stories) points. I also thought that the epilogue to 'Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul' was one of his run's big low points, too. But I rather like a lot of other aspects of Dini's run, such as Edward Nigma, PI (however temporary that is), the recurring Criss Angel-analogue character Loxias that was revealed to be the Joker in disguise, & Marchetti & Mr. Zzzz fleecing the Penguin. I think Dini's wasting his time trying to work magic with a scrub like Hush in the coming months (better off revitalizing Scarecrow or Hugo Strange instead, imo), but we'll see how that plays out. If nothing else, I assume that Hush will be the catalyst for Nigma regaining his memory, including his knowledge of Batman's secret ID.

Overall, I voted it a 4. Very Good, but a handful of flop issues keep it from being Great.

[Tanjint]

in retrospect, i only voted 4 because I don't feel Dini has gotten a Daniel/Kubert level artist consistently. The best drawn issue of his run (in the trades) that I've seen so far was the Joe Benitez Ivy ish.

have someone like a Kubert, Daniel, or Benitez drawing the whole thing and it'd be a 5. once more, i haven't seen Nguyen's art yet

-T

[Choppa]

It'd be nice if he paid attention to continuity!

[stealthwise]

It'd be nice if he paid attention to continuity!

Bogus argument.

Welcome to New Earth. There's no way of knowing if Robin II is still in continuity or not. A somewhat annoying after-effect of Infinite Crisis.

[Choppa]

Bogus argument.

Welcome to New Earth. There's no way of knowing if Robin II is still in continuity or not. A somewhat annoying after-effect of Infinite Crisis.

That's BS. Everything pre-IC still happened on New Earth.

Besides, does it make any sense that after being Robin for so long, he never encountered teh Joker solo until now?

[AlistairCrane]

That's BS. Everything pre-IC still happened on New Earth.

Besides, does it make any sense that after being Robin for so long, he never encountered teh Joker solo until now?

Not necessarily. For starters, now Batman knows Joe Chill killed his parents; Superman never killed the Phantom Zone criminals, and Superman may have been Superboy. Stealthwise is right--unless it's specfically stated in a book, pre-IC events may not be in continuity anymore.

[carabas]

I think it is the other way around: unles it is specifically stated that it didn't happen, it's still in continuity. There is simply no reason for that robin mini to be removed from continuity.

[AlistairCrane]

I think it is the other way around: unles it is specifically stated that it didn't happen, it's still in continuity. There is simply no reason for that robin mini to be removed from continuity.

No, but the writers could come out at anytime and say that it's not in continuity and drop the "New Earth" bombshell on us.

The whole creation of New Earth served the purpose of allowing the creators to easily retcon pre-IC events at the drop of a hat. Because of its openendedness, this can happen at any time.

[BrikHed21]

That's BS. Everything pre-IC still happened on New Earth.

I have taken a new approach to continuity - if I haven't read it then it didn't happen. I am not reading IC so therefore it does not exist :wink:

[AlistairCrane]

I have taken a new approach to continuity - if I haven't read it then it didn't happen. I am not reading IC so therefore it does not exist :wink:

LOL me too! I've applied that reasoning to Countdown, its tie-ins, and and FC.

[Choppa]

No, but the writers could come out at anytime and say that it's not in continuity and drop the "New Earth" bombshell on us.

The whole creation of New Earth served the purpose of allowing the creators to easily retcon pre-IC events at the drop of a hat. Because of its openendedness, this can happen at any time.

I'll haev to find it, but someone at DC said in an interview that everything pre-IC except for the stuff stated in IC did still happen.

[carabas]

I'll haev to find it, but someone at DC said in an interview that everything pre-IC except for the stuff stated in IC did still happen.
This is how I recall it as well.

They undid killer Superman, brought back the Clark Kent Superboy (but without actually having a Superboy in the books for legal reasons), reretconned Wonder woman into a JLA founding member, and fixed the Joe Chill thing, and that's pretty much it.

[AlistairCrane]

This is how I recall it as well.

They undid killer Superman, brought back the Clark Kent Superboy (but without actually having a Superboy in the books for legal reasons), reretconned Wonder woman into a JLA founding member, and fixed the Joe Chill thing, and that's pretty much it.

All those changes were unnecessary and IC just made a mess of things.

[Choppa]

All those changes were unnecessary and IC just made a mess of things.

That's what DC Crisises do :biggrin:

[sabongero]

That's what DC Crisises do :biggrin:

Well let's see what happens after Final Crisis this time. Hopefully it doesn't make a mess of things.

[jgiannantoni05]

I think it is the other way around: unles it is specifically stated that it didn't happen, it's still in continuity.
I strongly agree with this. I think someone at DC did say this.

It's also a big continuity glitch. Batman tells Tim that he was able to handle the Joker on his own.
I don't think that line has to be read so narrowly. Batman didn't necessarily say that Tim never handled The Joker alone before. Could read what Batman said as just saying that Tim handled him alone..again, which is always a nice feat for a young crimefighter, to take out Joker like that.


But, I love Detective #826. I myself think it is the best OYL/recent Batman story. Better than anything Morrison has written so far IMHO. Simple, smart, innovative.

[Choppa]

Well let's see what happens after Final Crisis this time. Hopefully it doesn't make a mess of things.

I hope so, but I don't see how it can possibly clean up the current mess unless everything is rebooted or we get a clear history for Batman (which I doubt will happen)

[jv2k]

I personally find the book to be fantastic. The stories are well done and Dini has a great grasp on the character. I'd say the best thing about Dini's run is the books episodic nature that allows for many stories to be told in fewer issues. So far the book is miles ahead of Morrison's Batman which has been mostly forgettable in my opinion.

The only stinker in the run is the poison Ivy story.

The art is inconsistent. It's never been bad, but the book also never had a really good artists. One of the things that bugged me the most in the books run was how young Tim was drawn in some issues despite the fact that he's around 18 now.

Another problem the book has is since Dini isn't a big name writer, his book tends to be fodder for crossovers. I'm just glad that Dini is allowed to do his own thing while this whole R.I.P. stuff is going on, although in the most recent issue we got a reference to that new girl he is dating.

[Pyro]

I voted "It was okay, it could have been better," because I think that most adequately describes how I feel, yet 2 stars sounds a bit too low. I have been consistently disappointed with Detective Comics. Compared to the innovative brilliance of his work on BTAS, It's curious how dull and uninteresting I find this book. I don't know if I can describe what's missing, but as long as I'd rather watch an old episode of BTAS, I know I'm not enjoying the comic.

[Cornelius Stirk]

Bogus argument.

Welcome to New Earth. There's no way of knowing if Robin II is still in continuity or not. A somewhat annoying after-effect of Infinite Crisis.

That'd be the ultimate cheap trick to foist on a story a writer convienently forgot about now wouldn't it? :wink:

[sabongero]

I stopped purchasing Paul Dini's work on Detective Comics recently. It's not because of the stories he wrote. I thought they were still very good. But it's because Dustin Nguyen's art did not do it for me in the recent issues of Detective Comics. Maybe it was because of Dustin's work on Superman/Batman late last year. It didn't work for me.

[Vidocq]

I stopped purchasing Paul Dini's work on Detective Comics recently. It's not because of the stories he wrote. I thought they were still very good. But it's because Dustin Nguyen's art did not do it for me in the recent issues of Detective Comics. Maybe it was because of Dustin's work on Superman/Batman late last year. It didn't work for me.

So true. Nyugen's art is too cartooney for that type of stories. Not that Detective is like Punisher MAX but Dini creates this Detective at work feeling that fitted perfectly with Kramer's art (plus the amazing covers by Simone Bianchi), and Nyugen's art is more for a Superhero-fights-monthly-supervillain kind of book. Also the Ra's Al Ghul crap (which could've easily be resolved in five issues of Batman) really made it lose momentum.

[SpawnOfJon]

Dini's issue with The Joker and Robin in the stolen car was a classic. I think it was one of the best single issue Batman related stories of the last 20 years. That thing will eventually end up getting reprinted over again as the years go on.

I absolutely loved that story. I read the TPB that I borrowed from the library, but I will probably end up buying it.

[Libaax]

I voted 5 because some issues has been great. Specially the one issue about a guy taking revenge on The Riddler for what he did years ago. A great issue about how reforming to become better doesnt change anything about the crimes,people you killed.


The Hush arc has been good so far too.

[carabas]

So true. Nyugen's art is too cartooney for that type of stories. Not that Detective is like Punisher MAX...
There is a collosal difference between stylised and cartoony. Nguyen's art is very stylised, but I think it has a level of grim and gritty that most artists with a mor realistic style can't even approach.

[tfresca]

Dini is the only guy writing Batman in anyway that makes sense and this is the only book were Batman actually "solves" a crime. He's really living up to the title of book by making Bats a real detective again. As far as I'm concerned they should wipe this whole RIP storyline now and give the book to Dini. Maybe he can salvage it somehow. I find it to be a muddled mess.

[Libaax]

There is a collosal difference between stylised and cartoony. Nguyen's art is very stylised, but I think it has a level of grim and gritty that most artists with a mor realistic style can't even approach.

Exactly the style fit in.

I like his gritty look for Batman and the way he use shadows.

[HaroldAllnut]

I've definitely enjoyed some of his stuff, particularly issue 845-- the stand-alone featuring the Riddler. I thought that entire mystery set-up was great stuff.

That having been said, I can't tell if it's Dini himself or the editorial heads at the DCU that are responsible for the shoddiness that is "The Heart of Hush." This past issue (#847) was quite boring, with a last page that made me yawn as opposed to shivering in fear (or perverse joy, if you're into that sort of thing).

I like the concept of the Sacred Heart Convalescent Hospital, far-fetched as it is, because, after all, it's a freaking comic book. It's just that, Hush's "alliance" with his mentor is inspired, but feels somewhat forced. Maybe I'm just being picky. Overall, I'm sticking with it, because I've subscribed, and because Dustin Nguyen still busts out awesome art month after month (not to say that Dini is shoddy; he's the master of the done-in-one, I'm just irritated by these seemingly unnecessary R.I.P tie-ins).

[Libaax]

Is Hush story RIP tie in ? Other than mentioning Black Glove there wasnt much RIP. Did i miss anything ? Of course i dont read Batman main anymore so i wouldnt really know.

I enjoyed the first issue of Hush more than 847. Nice to see Hush and his twisted mind. Felt alittle sorry for after his sad childhood thanks to his really messed up mother.

[JohnShil]

Is Hush story RIP tie in ?

It's officially a tie-in, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the story. The only real connection I've seen is DC proposing, via pins or something at a convention, Hush as one of the replacements for Bruce as Batman.

[Drusilla lives!]

Dini's work has been excellent on Detective. IMO he's a master of the short story format and the discontinuity issues that crossover events introduce never got out of hand under his watch.

[Libaax]

Dini's work has been excellent on Detective. IMO he's a master of the short story format and the discontinuity issues that crossover events introduce never got out of hand under his watch.

Thats why i hope when there is a pause from Bat events like RIP. He can get a chance to do a story arc in Batman main.

He is great at one-shot like stories but i want to see him write Batman main and be about like Tec but not just the episodic crime stories but longer stories.

Maybe im crazy but the Bat stories of even the 90s that was good was more like Dini's run at Tec than people that has written Batman main in recent years...

[BigBoss]

Iam really likeing hi chracter interpatation of hush.

[Rabid Trekkie]

I've only got the first two trades (not enough money to get Resurrection yet) and I love them. Not exactly a story arc, more like a couple days in Batman's life, which allows for small arcs like Joker's while still allowing someone who hasn't read what came before to jump on.

Which is great so that there's something for everyone with Morrison doing the long interlocking story arc. I'm really looking forward to getting those trades too. Just wish my budget would allow it.