Anyone else underwhelmed by Hush?

[b..]

If anyone's not read it - spoilers ahead














ok, we still in, good, then i'll begin.
right, i'll lay my cards down straight off, i'm not the biggest loeb fan; i think he's just raping the marvel universe at the moment and showing no respect to any sort of continuity at all. but that's by the by.
i bought the absolute edition of hush because i heard it was really good and an integral piece of batman folklore. plus, i've always kinda had a soft spot for gotham's favourite son - even when buying all marvel, i'd still pick up trades and one shots. so i came into hush expecting a lot and on first glance i got it; the art work is stunning, but that's jim lee for you - especially during the flashback sequences. so the writing, the story starts off well enough and the dialogues engaging but it's the little things with loeb that always get me - having tommy actually say 'hush' at the opera is just clumsy but, what really got me was the ending. with absolutley no clues or warning whasoever, aparently, the riddler did it, i mean, the the hell did that come from? apparenly batman knew because of a clue about a crossword, but there's no nod to the reader. part of the enjoyment of a crime thriller/ sleuth is that the reader can go back and see wht they've missed - it provides that 'ahhh' moment; but this, nadda. you're just told. i think it would have been better if it was tommy, putting the riddler in there just seems a bit forced.
anyway, i'll probably still pick up long halloween next month and hopefully that does live up to the hype. rant over.

[pariah-1972]

If anyone's not read it - spoilers ahead














ok, we still in, good, then i'll begin.
right, i'll lay my cards down straight off, i'm not the biggest loeb fan; i think he's just raping the marvel universe at the moment and showing no respect to any sort of continuity at all. but that's by the by.
i bought the absolute edition of hush because i heard it was really good and an integral piece of batman folklore. plus, i've always kinda had a soft spot for gotham's favourite son - even when buying all marvel, i'd still pick up trades and one shots. so i came into hush expecting a lot and on first glance i got it; the art work is stunning, but that's jim lee for you - especially during the flashback sequences. so the writing, the story starts off well enough and the dialogues engaging but it's the little things with loeb that always get me - having tommy actually say 'hush' at the opera is just clumsy but, what really got me was the ending. with absolutley no clues or warning whasoever, aparently, the riddler did it, i mean, the the hell did that come from? apparenly batman knew because of a clue about a crossword, but there's no nod to the reader. part of the enjoyment of a crime thriller/ sleuth is that the reader can go back and see wht they've missed - it provides that 'ahhh' moment; but this, nadda. you're just told. i think it would have been better if it was tommy, putting the riddler in there just seems a bit forced.
anyway, i'll probably still pick up long halloween next month and hopefully that does live up to the hype. rant over.LoL even tho he has a horrible horrible origin/ back-story theres something really engaging about him that i really like and i can't quite put my finger on it.

[AlistairCrane]

The only thing that I hated was the final issue---making Tommy Hush was too obvious and uncreative. They should've made him Jason Todd. Luckily Winick fixed that mistake.

[Dr. Ghost]

What did you expect from Jeph Loeb?
Haha.

[AlistairCrane]

I don't get the hate for Jeph Loeb. My only qualm is, he writes a very good story and then pansies out on the ending. For example:
-Why make Jason Todd Clayface? (Luckily Winick undid that mistake)
-Why make someone so obvious as Tommy Hush? (Lieberman almost fixed that in Gotham Knights but also pansied out)
-Why make progress with the Bruce/Selina relationship only to try to revert it to the status quo? (Luckily Brubaker fixed that as well)

Another thing that bugged me, although it's not Loeb's fault at all: Why bother fixing Harvey's face and then NEVER USE HIM as Harvey? Seriously. After Hush, he wasn't seen again until the One Year Later "Face the Face" arc when he re-scarred himself. Dude, seriously. How lame.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

If anyone's not read it - spoilers ahead

anyway, i'll probably still pick up long halloween next month and hopefully that does live up to the hype. rant over.

"Long Halloween" is better. Don't expect one of the greatest comic storylines you've ever read, but rather a solid storyline you should be satisfied with.

Like yourself, I didn't like "Hush" that much. The artwork was pretty, but I've felt for a long time that Jim Lee's artwork is better suited for posters & covers rather than interior art. His panel-work isn't up to par with some of the other artists out there in that you don't really see the story flow with him. It all ends up kind of disjointed.

As for Loeb's writing in "Hush", I thought it was average at best. All those characters being included was cool, but it all felt empty to me.

I almost forgot to mention this......I'm surprised you've had people telling you "Hush" is integral to Batman folklore. It could have been, if it was done better, but really it almost seems to have been ignored. One example would be the Catwoman relationship not really being expanded upon afterwards.

[juggling man]

My favorite from Loeb is "Catwoman When in Rome". Hush was allright but not that great to me. I liked long halloween and dark victory though.

[Earl of the RCs]

but, what really got me was the ending. with absolutley no clues or warning whasoever, aparently, the riddler did it, i mean, the the hell did that come from? apparenly batman knew because of a clue about a crossword, but there's no nod to the reader. part of the enjoyment of a crime thriller/ sleuth is that the reader can go back and see wht they've missed - it provides that 'ahhh' moment; but this, nadda. you're just told. i think it would have been better if it was tommy, putting the riddler in there just seems a bit forced.


Um, not meaning to brag or anything, but when Ir ead this story, as it came out, I picked the `true villain of this story is the Riddler' twist by the end of the 5th issue. That `Hush' was just a front man and really is who he obviously seamed to be (remember that we, the reader, saw alot more evidence than Batman the character) just seamed really obvious. (The idea that Loeb would create an all new villain who could set all the other rogues gallery members jumping through hoops was just ridiculous).

Then again, im a total Riddle fan boy, so maybe I got lucky on a wish fulfillment fueled thought.

That they chumped him out after that (Riddler's way to smart to not be prepared for `hush's revenge' or to think Ivy would help him out after what he did) really gets me. I have a plot in ym head that'd write him out of such stupidity though. And I like him as a detective, for now... Hey DC how about it?

Anyways, I think it sucks that they reverted the Clayface was Jason and Hush really just is Tommy (but who cares) `reveals'. Bringing Jason back later, inserting him into the Hush story, really weakens it retrospectively.

Although I'll also admit to being one of the few people that finds Jason being alive again- NOT THE METHOD OF HIS RESURECTION THOUGH!- interesting and possibility filled. He could be Riddler's body guard.

[b..]

[Um, not meaning to brag or anything, but when Ir ead this story, as it came out, I picked the `true villain of this story is the Riddler' twist by the end of the 5th issue. That `Hush' was just a front man and really is who he obviously seamed to be (remember that we, the reader, saw alot more evidence than Batman the character) just seamed really obvious. (The idea that Loeb would create an all new villain who could set all the other rogues gallery members jumping through hoops was just ridiculous).

Then again, im a total Riddle fan boy, so maybe I got lucky on a wish fulfillment fueled thought.

That they chumped him out after that (Riddler's way to smart to not be prepared for `hush's revenge' or to think Ivy would help him out after what he did) really gets me. I have a plot in ym head that'd write him out of such stupidity though. And I like him as a detective, for now... Hey DC how about it?

Anyways, I think it sucks that they reverted the Clayface was Jason and Hush really just is Tommy (but who cares) `reveals'. Bringing Jason back later, inserting him into the Hush story, really weakens it retrospectively.

Although I'll also admit to being one of the few people that finds Jason being alive again- NOT THE METHOD OF HIS RESURECTION THOUGH!- interesting and possibility filled. He could be Riddler's body guard.

I see what you mean about hush being a front man for a more established villain, i guess i had hopes of loeb making a new villain who could exist on his own. i know, i'm foolish, but a boy can dream. but how did you deduce it was the riddler? is it, like you say, a guess based on you're riddler fan boy-ism and getting lucky, or did you spot something else? i mean, could it have not been another one of rogues? i agree that as the reader, we're allowed to see more than bats, but i still couldn't find anything that implicitly implicates the riddler apart from the end where he goes 'it was you' - so, ironically, although we see more, it's bats who ultlimately sees the key bit without us being privy to it. and i was always told to share...

about jason todd, when he was originally up and running, i was a total marvel fan boy, i could only afford a few comics and i'd thrown my lot in with the x-men, as was the trend at the time, but when i got a job and could afford more, i decided on dc as well - both houses have a great cast and good writters, so why allege with any particular one? anyway, the result is, i don't care that he's back, or the manner in which he came back - hell, there's been more ridiculous resurrections - and i also think it could make for an interesting character playoff.

[Lorendiac]

For what it's worth -- I bought "Hush" in the skinny little issues as it came out, and I kept telling myself optimistically, "Most of the plot twists that don't seem to make sense will surely be cleared up in the Grand Finale."

Of course I was wrong!

I have since reached the conclusion that Jeph Loeb is great at humor and snappy dialogue and building suspense and so forth -- but when it comes to creating and resolving a "logical mystery" for Batman to investigate and solve in a way that doesn't leave an embarrasing number of loose ends and contradictions, Loeb is totally incapable of getting the job done. I don't know why; it's like he has a huge blind spot when it comes to asking himself, "Will this lengthy plot actually make sense to the intelligent reader after he's read the final chapter?"

Four years ago I was inspired to write, and to post (here on CBR, and on other forums), what I intended as a scathing parody of "Hush," written more-or-less in the Mad Magazine style, with humorously distorted versions of everybody's names, and with some of the characters blatantly pointing out one another's bizarre behavior patterns (and various plot holes) in dialogue. As I recall, a fair number of my fellow Batman fans seemed to enjoy my efforts!

If you want to examine my parody, you can follow these links:

Batman: Shush (Part 1) (http://www.geocities.com/lwhomer.geo/LorendiacSuperheroWritings/BratmanShush1.html)
Batman: Shush (Part 2) (http://www.geocities.com/lwhomer.geo/LorendiacSuperheroWritings/BratmanShush2.html)

[Choppa]

The only people who like HUSH are new readers because it serves as a nice primer to what's been going on the comics. It's basically a guide with a "story" tacked on.

Read "The Long Haloween" isntead. And read it before seeing "The Dark Knight."

[Sir Roman Frost]

It had the same problem as Long Halloween. The mystery wasn't really a mystery. You never have any clue of who it can be. Bats just really walks around and gets into fights the whole time. So many people were unhappy with the ending because their was no real build up to it. Your just given a resolution that doesn't ring true. Hush is also full of all the Batman cliches: Batman fights Superman proving how awesome he is, Batman almost crosses the line and kills the Joker, and Batman dueling Ra in the desert.

However it wasn't all bad. Jim Lee was at the top of his game. He is definitely a top 10 Batman artist. There are also some fun moments which makes the book good, but not great.

[Pól Rua]

Hated it.
Basically an extended excuse for Jim Lee to draw pin-ups of the extended Batman cast.
I'm probably alone in this, but I really don't like Jim Lee at all. He's got some flash here and there, but he's all style, no substance.
He's like the guy who shows his portfolio to a pro at a convention and it's full of pictures of Batman, Spider-Man and Hulk, ninjas, explosions and attack helicopters, but ask him to draw a normal human being, or a normal street scene, or, christ, anything that hasn't been pulled out of Jerry Bruckheimer's playbook of 'exciting stuff' (tm), and he flounders.

The 'mystery' was laughable.
Hey, look, here's a character we've never seen in... oh... almost seventy years of Batman stories, and we're expected to believe he and Bruce are bestest pals ever. And then, at the same time, a new mystery man appears... golly, I wonder who HE could be?

Unutterable rubbish from start to finish.

[Schornforce]

I did enjoy Hush, mostly due to the cool moments. I see the criticisms brought up and understand. Yes, it's not a true mystery. Yes, writing and art are subjective to one's tastes.

I don't mind Jim Lee or Jeph Loeb. But understand that some do.

Yeah, Hush as a super secret villain?

Yeah... no.

I enjoyed the exciting and spiffy-cool ideas presented and the fact that Riddler actually did something. I also liked that Selina finally and definitively found out Batman was Bruce Wayne. Took bloody long enough.

It was enjoyable but not my favorite story ever.

[Chachi]

I have heard rumors and talk around the LCS that the original plan was for Hush to be Jason Todd, and that DC changed their minds half way thru the storyline. They decided to stay with the issue that Jason Todd was revealed to be Hush, but the change was made to make Hush Tommy Elliot, and thats why Jason Todd was made to be a clayface. Jason Todd was supposed to be behind it all, not the riddler. Anyone else remember those rumors?

[Tanjint]

those rumors would make some sense because Hush kicked ASS until the last issue. It didn't explain things nicely, I wasn't convinced of Hush/Eliot's motives, and there was no real resolution (we never got to see his FACE!).

-T

[Tanjint]

I think Dini's arc will fix the motivation-less aspect of Eliot.

-T

[AlistairCrane]

I have heard rumors and talk around the LCS that the original plan was for Hush to be Jason Todd, and that DC changed their minds half way thru the storyline. They decided to stay with the issue that Jason Todd was revealed to be Hush, but the change was made to make Hush Tommy Elliot, and thats why Jason Todd was made to be a clayface. Jason Todd was supposed to be behind it all, not the riddler. Anyone else remember those rumors?

The only problem I have with that is why would DC let a lesser writer like Winick bring Jason back later on in his "Under the Hood" arc?

[Choppa]

I have heard rumors and talk around the LCS that the original plan was for Hush to be Jason Todd, and that DC changed their minds half way thru the storyline. They decided to stay with the issue that Jason Todd was revealed to be Hush, but the change was made to make Hush Tommy Elliot, and thats why Jason Todd was made to be a clayface. Jason Todd was supposed to be behind it all, not the riddler. Anyone else remember those rumors?

I do. I also rememeber the picture floating around the Internet with Tommy's face at the end of Batman #616 instead of Jason's (because Jason would be revealed later).

If it was Jason a great story could have been written.

[Sanagi]

I thought it was pretty fun, for the most part, but Loeb needs to familiarize himself with the concept of the red herring. You're supposed to make a character seem like the obvious guilty party, and then defy that expectation.

[Choppa]

I thought it was pretty fun, for the most part, but Loeb needs to familiarize himself with the concept of the red herring. You're supposed to make a character seem like the obvious guilty party, and then defy that expectation.

Read Long Halloween. Loeb has talent, but HUSH was just one big cash grab...

[HaroldAllnut]

As for Hush... I'm hoping that Dini gives him some spice in the upcoming "Heart of Hush" arc over in Detective Comics.

Hush was allright but not that great to me. I liked long halloween and dark victory though.

Yeah... Sometimes I think people forget that Loeb wrote those. They were both quite excellent.

[Chachi]

I do. I also rememeber the picture floating around the Internet with Tommy's face at the end of Batman #616 instead of Jason's (because Jason would be revealed later).

If it was Jason a great story could have been written.

Now that I think about it......

Didnt the picrure of Jason as Hush surface a couple of weeks before issue #616shipped, and then a week or so after #616 shipped the picture of Tommy as Hush surfaced. I believe thats when the rumors started.?

[AlistairCrane]

I thought it was pretty fun, for the most part, but Loeb needs to familiarize himself with the concept of the red herring. You're supposed to make a character seem like the obvious guilty party, and then defy that expectation.

Unless his logic was he knew that by making Tommy *so* obvious that we wouldn't suspect him, so when Hush's identity as Tommy was finally revealed, we'd be surprised because we *weren't* expecting him.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Ahh, Ed Brubaker's "Dead Reckoning" was a way better story by a country mile (better plotted, no fanfic). Too bad about the art, though; if J.H. WiIliams III had drawn that one, we very well might all be going "Hush who?" today.

[TROUBLEZ]

As a TPB HUSH isn't good because the "mystery" isn't a really good one. Tommy was hinted at being Hush very early on, and very strongly to the point it looked like a red herring. To find out he really was the main villain, and that he killed his own parents and hated Bruce was lame.

As a monthly comic, for me, it was very fun. The flashbacks really added to the story and helps get immersed into the world of Batman. Showcasing each villain while having an underlining mystery lying ahead, with a mystery man lurking in the background was very cool too. It was a fun ride, with only the last issue being crap.

My problems with it as a TPB, monthly or just as a story is this:


Tommy Elliot as Bruce's friend

I wasn't crazy about Bruce having this child hood friend that we never heard of, but I liked him, because Bruce doesn't have many friends, he was interesting, and he would make a nice occassional supporting cast character. But instead he just turns out to be the villain. Loeb should have kept him as Bruce's friend, instead of retconning him in, only to sweep him under the rug as a villain.


Hush is NOT Jason

I don't like the idea of bringing back Jason Todd, nor did I like Winnick's story arc. But having Jason be Hush would have been a better choice, a much better reveal, and possibly made the last few issues, alot more interesting.


Batman and Superman Battle

I was looking forward to this issue but didn't buy it because it's a typical supervillain turns heroes against each other.


The Finale

All that had been built up in the previous 11 issues, I just knew that a regular sized issue wouldn't be able to adequetely tie it all together. Having Tommy be Hush was lame, and even though I believe that the Riddler has alot of potential to be a great villain (I hear the Dark City storyline is good) him being the mastermind was a let down. Also, after this story arc finished up I heard that Lee and Loeb wanted to return for 6 issues somewhere down the line and tie up all the loose ends. Unfortunately that never happened and Hush got worse.

[carabas]

The only problem I have with that is why would DC let a lesser writer like Winick bring Jason back later on in his "Under the Hood" arc?Once upon a time, maybe.
But Under The Hood was tons better than Hush. It's only flaw was the Superboy Prime Plot Device Punch.

Hush already had all the flaws that are no so apparent in Ultimates 3: no plot, utter disdain for previous characterisation and continuity, extreme cliched story-telling, a scripts that amounts to little more than checking off the fan moments from a list, a mystery that does not work in any conceivable way, and an overreliance on the artist.
Even The Long Halloween already had hints of this.

Jeph Loeb is very good at making commercially succesfull trash, but he is not a good writer. Winick can write circles around him.

[dancj]

i'll probably still pick up long halloween next month and hopefully that does live up to the hype. rant over.
It doesn't.

The art is sublime, but the story is so-so much like Hush. The big difference is that Tim Sale is a master of the art form and can make a so-so story look great, where as Jim like is a stiff all-flash no-substance artist.

[pariah-1972]

Even tho it has its faults i still like Hush.
I think Loeb should have never left DC mostly cause DC knows that he needs a strong storyteller and a book thats not beholden to continuity.

[carabas]

Even tho it has its faults i still like Hush.
I think Loeb should have never left DC mostly cause DC knows that he needs a ... book thats not beholden to continuity.So they put him on the main Batman title, and let him resolve the President Lex story, bring back Supergirl...

[pariah-1972]

So they put him on the main Batman title, and let him resolve the President Lex story, bring back Supergirl...When did this happen ? was it our worlds at war?

[carabas]

They put him on the main Bat-title, where he wrote a 12-issue story now known as 'Hush'.
Then they put him on Batman/Superman, where in his first arc he resolved the President Lex story by having the American president mainline carcinogenic liquid Kryptonite and don silver age power armour for a fistfight with superman whilst ranting like a lunatic for the cameras. Smartest man indeed...
And in his second arc he brought back Supergirl as a clothing-phobic lolita.

[b..]

It doesn't.

The art is sublime, but the story is so-so much like Hush. The big difference is that Tim Sale is a master of the art form and can make a so-so story look great, where as Jim like is a stiff all-flash no-substance artist.

dagnabbit! i'll still read it, but i hear what you're saying and, to be honest given loeb's track record, i'm not surprised - although it has to be said, from the one book (i know, great sample group) i've read, his dc work is infinitely better that his marvel work where he just seems intent on disregarding everything that's gone before and doing whatever the hell he wants. in part, i blame the editors for letting him steamroll them.
so any other suggestions from you long term bat readers on what to read? i've got or read the one's you'd expect - tdkr/ arkham/ year one/ killing joke/ knightfall/ all the nml stuff - and the mani bat title's been on my pull list since morrision, so i'm looking for something a bit more 'historic' to build up a better history of the bat, thanks.

[Choppa]

^Pretty much everything is self-contained with very little reference to previous events, so I would read those stories with the mindset that they are stand-alones.

Also, Fugitive was resolved in Leob's S/B arc. It was all of one panel.

[Tanjint]

i also read these issues as they came out and that enhanced the experience.

also, though the mind control device that allowed the supes/bats fight was cliche, you can't say that Batman wasn't clever as shit in that fight against supes.

I thought the characterizations were over-all decent too.

It's just that frickin' end. I have almost no problems with the story up until the end. Hell, even showing Tommy's face as Hush (which we never saw) would have helped.

Someone said that Brubaker resolved the Catwoman relationship stuff...what trade could I find this in?

-T

[AlistairCrane]

Someone said that Brubaker resolved the Catwoman relationship stuff...what trade could I find this in?

-T

Unfortunately, the last 12 issues of Brubaker's run aren't collected in trade. :( You'll want to check out #34 if you can find it in the back issue bin (or Ebay).

[Tanjint]

#34 of what title?

and most of what I'm asking about is in that ish?

also, not in trade meaning not in any collected format including hardcover?

-T

[AlistairCrane]

#34 of what title?

and most of what I'm asking about is in that ish?

also, not in trade meaning not in any collected format including hardcover?

-T

Oh sorry, it's Catwoman #32, not 34!! But yeah, it's not collected anywhere, in any form.

[pariah-1972]

They put him on the main Bat-title, where he wrote a 12-issue story now known as 'Hush'.
Then they put him on Batman/Superman, where in his first arc he resolved the President Lex story by having the American president mainline carcinogenic liquid Kryptonite and don silver age power armour for a fistfight with superman whilst ranting like a lunatic for the cameras. Smartest man indeed...
And in his second arc he brought back Supergirl as a clothing-phobic lolita.I didn't know batman/superman was in continuity...

[pariah-1972]

dagnabbit! i'll still read it, but i hear what you're saying and, to be honest given loeb's track record, i'm not surprised - although it has to be said, from the one book (i know, great sample group) i've read, his dc work is infinitely better that his marvel work where he just seems intent on disregarding everything that's gone before and doing whatever the hell he wants. in part, i blame the editors for letting him steamroll them.
so any other suggestions from you long term bat readers on what to read? i've got or read the one's you'd expect - tdkr/ arkham/ year one/ killing joke/ knightfall/ all the nml stuff - and the mani bat title's been on my pull list since morrision, so i'm looking for something a bit more 'historic' to build up a better history of the bat, thanks.Get O'neils beginning stories were he introduced the "dark" Batman again.

[brundlefly]

I didn't know batman/superman was in continuity...

Oh, how I wish it weren't, but I'm afraid so....

[flapjaxx]

Looking back on it all, I'm astonished that Lee could have pencilled a MONTHLY series. Does anyone know if he had two years' lead-in time or what?

I've read most of Hush and skimmed the rest. At first I thought it was good, especially with the Jason/Clayface stuff, then I sort of lost interest.

It always bugs me that they released this as two separate trades when they easily could have been collected in a single softcover volume. It really adds insult to injury that Vol. 1 is about half the size of Vol. 2, since I'd rather have the first volume, but wouldn't be getting as much. Just for the artwork and the not-horrible Loeb story, it'd be worth it to own a collected edition, but not two separate volumes or an overblown absolute edition, imo.

[Lorendiac]

I have heard rumors and talk around the LCS that the original plan was for Hush to be Jason Todd, and that DC changed their minds half way thru the storyline. They decided to stay with the issue that Jason Todd was revealed to be Hush, but the change was made to make Hush Tommy Elliot, and thats why Jason Todd was made to be a clayface. Jason Todd was supposed to be behind it all, not the riddler. Anyone else remember those rumors?

I remember the rumors, all right, but frankly I never saw any reason to take them seriously! As far as I know, neither Jeph Loeb or Jim Lee nor any other "insider" has ever said anything to support any such rumor, and you'd think they ought to know!

I figured early on that Tommy Elliot was headed for a "very important role" in the Grand Finale of "Hush." Otherwise, why did Loeb keep hitting us over the head with all those childhood flashback sequences showing us (among other things) how clever Tommy was at outwitting Bruce in games with toy soldiers? When Tommy got killed in the middle of the arc, I was stunned because there had never been any follow-up "in the present" to that one flashback in which Tommy went into a rage because Bruce had been idiotic enough to "promise" that Bruce's daddy could save Tommy's daddy's life in the surgery room, and it hadn't worked out. The only reason to include that scene in the first place would be if it served as "motive" for something big that would happen "today" to finally "resolve" that sense of betrayal between childhood friends. That doesn't mean I had decided, by the time Tommy died, that Tommy absolutely positively "had to be" the Mysterious Bandaged Trenchcoat Guy who was lurking in the shadows muttering weird quotations for most of the story arc -- I didn't even realize, until toward the end, that Mysterious Bandaged Trenchcoat Guy was supposed to be using the name "Hush" -- but I was convinced Tommy was meant to play a more central role to the plot than just conveniently dropping dead in the middle of it so Batman could have an almost-lethal temper tantrum! (Yeah, like we never saw that schtick before . . . )

Right after Part 11 came out, though, which ended with Mysterious Bandaged Trenchcoat Guy shooting Harold dead and confronting Batman directly for the first time, I visited DC's own website and saw they were holding some sort of contest on "Who is Hush?" There was a pulldown menu with dozens of characters we could pick as our prime candidate, including lots of old villains, and even such longshots as "Alfred Pennyworth" and "Jim Gordon," but as soon as I saw the name "Tommy Elliot" I knew it had to be him, for reasons outlined in my previous paragraph. At this point, with only about 22 pages left in the entire epic, he had to "return from the dead" soon if he hadn't already, and I didn't see any other good way for him to be shoehorned into Part 12 when it would come out a month later, so I picked him as my choice. The idea was that of all the people who picked the right candidate for Hush, one of them would win a grand prize in a drawing, or something along those lines. I never did hear who won, but at least I was an eligible contender since I picked it right!

To me, Loeb's maneuvers with "seeming to bring Jason back" at the end of Part 10, and then revealing in Part 11 that somebody else (who probably knew Batman's secrets) had simply recruited a Clayface to play nasty mind games by giving Batman a terrible shock for a few minutes (and keep the readers of the monthly title in terrible suspense for a solid month! :biggrin: ), constituted one of the strongest ideas of the entire 12-part epic.

Actually bringing Jason back would have been totally lame. (As indeed it proved to be, later!) He is a much more effective character in Bat-continuity when he's stone cold dead and leaving Batman with bitter memories: "If only I had done this or that differently . . . if only I hadn't left him there near his long-lost biological mother when the Joker was prowling around . . . if only I'd been tougher in teaching him discipline so he'd follow orders instead of biting off more than he could chew . . ."

But hinting, and then briefly pretending, that Jason was coming back from the dead in "Hush," struck me as a very good example of how to play the game properly, keeping the readers on the edge of their seats without actually doing anything so stupid as raising Jason from the dead for real!

[Seraku]

i liked the Hush arc fine not bad but not as good as his Halloween epic (Long Halloween/Dark Victory + When in rome for good measure)

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

I remember feeling all this through Hush's run:

#608: Alright, I guess, but we'll see.

#609: Picking up, but still not really a white-knuckle thrillride. Can't decide whether new Huntress looks hawt or goofy.

#610: Okay, I think I'm starting to get bored.

#611: Cool 'paint' effect sequences, still not as thrilled as I could be.

#612: Cool art, as always, can't shake the feeling of fanwank (that's only grown in the years since).

#613: Last page? Okay, now I'm gettin' interested.

#614: This shakes Batman & Joker's relationship?

#615: Meh. 'Tec & Catwoman are still awesome, at least.

#616: Harvey Dent?! What's going on here?

#617: Jason Todd? Whoa.

#618: Another fake-out I kinda fell for (God, was I ever young!). Poor Harold, though.

#619: A year of hype & press & whatnot for: a thin plot for a mystery, a Secondbanana-Killing Joke/A Death In The Family, a Secondbanana Batman vs. Superman, a now unusable Two-Face, another Bat/Cat romance that leads nowhere 'cuz Bat is too cold, with some fairly cool-- if slick-- artwork on top of it all. Awesome.

[carabas]

Rumours aside, there is one good reason to assume that Hush really was intended to be Jason Todd.

There is a hulking claymonster in the story and Jim Lee did not get to draw him. Clayface is only in the captions, never in the art.
Considering how Jeph Loeb's method of writing consists of littme mor than giving great artisis cool stuff to draw, I can only conclude that the decision to use Clayface was made after Lee had already done the art, and that in the original version Jason Todd indeed did show up alive only to slip away in the night (perhaps to return in Loeb/Lee's never materialised six-issue follow-up story.

[Seraku]

#618: Another fake-out I kinda fell for (God, was I ever young!). Poor Harold, though.


Read Winnick's run of Batman, that actually was Jason Todd,Jason sided with Hush to screw around with Bruce's head then he switched out with Clayface to fool Batman into thinking it wasn;'t him.

[Choppa]

Read Winnick's run of Batman, that actually was Jason Todd,Jason sided with Hush to screw around with Bruce's head then he switched out with Clayface to fool Batman into thinking it wasn;'t him.

That was because of a retcon that happened later. At that time that was Clayface.

[AlistairCrane]

That was because of a retcon that happened later. At that time that was Clayface.

Key phrase: "At the time". Now you can re-read Hush with the full knowledge that it WAS Jason Todd in the cemetery after all.

[Bat-Reader]

After "Batman: Broken City" it just goes down and down... there are some exceptions like clown at midnight, batman issue 666. And clup of heroes was ok. oh and i haven't read Rip yet so i hope it will turn out good.

[Tanjint]

I loved Hush(cept the last chapter), Broken City, Clown at midnight, 666, and club of heroes.

waiting for the trade on RIP
-T

[AlistairCrane]

Judd Winick's entire run on Batman is fantastic. I love it.

[Choppa]

Key phrase: "At the time". Now you can re-read Hush with the full knowledge that it WAS Jason Todd in the cemetery after all.

And since he was describing his experience reading the story issue by issue at the time, he couldn't have reacted to something that hadn't happened yet.

[carabas]

Judd Winick's entire run on Batman is fantastic. I love it.What? Even the Scare-Beast? He did do the best Jason Todd ever though.

[AlistairCrane]

What? Even the Scare-Beast? He did do the best Jason Todd ever though.

Yeah, I didn't mind the Scare-beast. But his arc really got running with the "Under the Hood" arc. And everything after that was awesome.

[Cornelius Stirk]

I personally remember reading it and thinking, hold on all the other big name villains have appeared or been hinted at (even Hush flipping Two Face's coin). Who's missing? Riddler.

[Choppa]

I personally remember reading it and thinking, hold on all the other big name villains have appeared or been hinted at (even Hush flipping Two Face's coin). Who's missing? Riddler.

Have you read Long Halloween or Dark Victory? In both of those stories Riddler gets pushed aside by all of the other villians, so the fact that he was behind it all in HUSH is sort of his revenge for what happened in the past.

[Jim Thompson]

I'm probably in the minority, but I really enjoyed Hush. Wasn't just the art (which was gorgeous), but I really thought the story was good, too.

[Dr. Ghost]

I read the first trade.
I like the art.
Hush has a cool design, but his background/story is retarded.

[Lorendiac]

I personally remember reading it and thinking, hold on all the other big name villains have appeared or been hinted at (even Hush flipping Two Face's coin). Who's missing? Riddler.

Just to mention in passing -- and you probably remember this, Cornelius, but I thought I'd set the record straight for anyone else who wasn't sure -- by the end of the story, I was fairly sure it had actually been Harvey Dent (with the bandages covering his healing face right after surgery) flipping his own two-headed silver dollar and saying, "He IS innocent. Get the joke?"

Although I admit that the distinction between "the Mysterious Bandaged Trenchcoat Guy Who Will Be Revealed as Harvey" and "the Mysterious Bandaged Trenchcoat Guy Who Will Be Revealed as Hush/Tommy" was not obvious to the reader at the time Harvey was flipping that silly coin at the end of one issue in the middle of the epic!

[Lorendiac]

Key phrase: "At the time". Now you can re-read Hush with the full knowledge that it WAS Jason Todd in the cemetery after all.

Actually, no. I reread "Hush" with the full knowledge that it was Clayface pretending to be Jason Todd at the time it first happened. That's what I keep at the front of my mind if I'm going to enjoy that scene at all. I try not to dwell on the painful concept of "Superboy-Prime's Retcon Punch rewrote this moment in history after the fact, so that Clayface and Jason Todd were switching places in the middle of a fight scene for no good reason without Batman having a clue that any such change had occurred in the guy (or guys) he was fighting, because he's such a lousy observer," or however it goes.

By the same token: When I reread "A Death in the Family" from 1988, I do my best to ignore the later Awful Retcon that was perpetrated in the "Deadman: Dead Again" miniseries, wherein I believe we were told that the spirit animating Jason's battered body in the last minute or so of his life, untying his long-lost biological mother and later throwing himself forward toward the Joker's time bomb in an effort (unsuccessful) to save her life, was actually the spirit of Boston Brand in temporary control of Jason's body.

(I flipped through #2 of that series in a comics shop once, and hated the concept enough that I realized I wasn't going to waste a dime on any of the issues. That Awful Retcon may have been retconned away itself, at some later date, for all I know. Just as I hope -- although I have no reason to believe it likely -- that the Awful Retcons about Jason's return from the grave will be swept under the rug by the end of Final Crisis.)

[BatWing]

I liked it. It was the first Batman comic I ever read. It was basically a tour guide of the Batman universe, disguised as a fairly decent detective story. The revealing was a bit lame, but the art and everything else really made up for it.

[Choppa]

I liked it. It was the first Batman comic I ever read. It was basically a tour guide of the Batman universe, disguised as a fairly decent detective story. The revealing was a bit lame, but the art and everything else really made up for it.

Fairly decent detective story?? You've gotta be kidding me. I think a decent story should have more than one and a half clues in it. (I only count the question mark on the screen as half a clue).

[Seraku]

Have you read Long Halloween or Dark Victory? In both of those stories Riddler gets pushed aside by all of the other villians, so the fact that he was behind it all in HUSH is sort of his revenge for what happened in the past.

yeah he was punk in TLH. Also reading When in Rome is a tad helpful, in that mini it's established that Nigma is obsessed with finding out "Gotham's #1 mystery", Bat's identity (#2 mystery is who the Joker was before he was Joker)

[Tanjint]

yeah he was punk in TLH. Also reading When in Rome is a tad helpful, in that mini it's established that Nigma is obsessed with finding out "Gotham's #1 mystery", Bat's identity (#2 mystery is who the Joker was before he was Joker)

damn, i need to read that stuff.

i've been thinking lately that it's all about context. if i was to read ASBAR having not read other Miller Bats, I probably wouldn't dig it but in context it's brilliant.

it sounds like Loeb's Bat-work has similar contextual conditions. I love Haunted Knight and the first 11 issues of Hush. I have been waiting to have the cash to get the Long Halloween absolute edition but am looking forward to it, when in rome , and dark victory.

in when in rome, does riddler pursue finding out who the Joker was before he was the Joker? cause that actually seems like it'd be even harder to find out than finding outs Bats' identity.

-T

[Choppa]

it sounds like Loeb's Bat-work has similar contextual conditions. I love Haunted Knight and the first 11 issues of Hush. I have been waiting to have the cash to get the Long Halloween absolute edition but am looking forward to it, when in rome , and dark victory.

in when in rome, does riddler pursue finding out who the Joker was before he was the Joker? cause that actually seems like it'd be even harder to find out than finding outs Bats' identity.

-T

Then you've probably noticed that Loeb reuses stuff in his stories. Some of the lines in HUSH are taken directly from TLH and there was a scene in Haunted Knight that is repeated in HUSH, one of the flashbacks. One repeated line I remember is the one that he says when he is kissing Catwoman.

As for Rome, I can't remember to well that far back, but I don't think Riddler persues Joker's origins, he just mentions the question.

[Tanjint]

the riddler pursuing Joker's origins in a story would kick ass.

-T

[Super Buddies Forever]

I've been saying this since they brought Todd back for real: Doing it in Hush would have not only saved that storyline, but it would have spared us from the half-baked Red Hood, Superboy-Prime punching fiasco we were met with two years later.

[Tanjint]

Judd Winick's Red Hood story was a fun read I thought.

Same with his Titans...not brilliant works of intellect, but fun reads with good art.

Didn't Amazo fight Bats and Nightwing in his run? In the words of Gob Bluth, COME ON!

-T

[carabas]

Same with his Titans...not brilliant works of intellect, but fun reads with good art.I am one of the very few people here who'll agree with you on the merits of Winick's writing, but good art on Titans? Really?

[Tanjint]

Churchill and Benitez? Pshyeah.

Not my faves or anything, but I consider it enjoyable. I mean I know it's a little cheesecakey but so is the writing...it's just fun I guess.

-T

[dancj]

I've been saying this since they brought Todd back for real: Doing it in Hush would have not only saved that storyline, but it would have spared us from the half-baked Red Hood, Superboy-Prime punching fiasco we were met with two years later.

Red Hood was nothing special but it was way better than Hush

[Choppa]

I've been saying this since they brought Todd back for real: Doing it in Hush would have not only saved that storyline, but it would have spared us from the half-baked Red Hood, Superboy-Prime punching fiasco we were met with two years later.

I don't think it would have spared us from the Superboy punch. That probably still would have been the method of resurrection.

[worldknits]

did enjoy Hush, mostly due to the cool moments. I see the criticisms brought up and understand. Yes, it's not a true mystery. Yes, writing and art are subjective to one's tastes.

I don't mind Jim Lee or Jeph Loeb. But understand that some do.

Yeah, Hush as a super secret villain?

[Doc Goblin]

I liked most of Hush. It was this fun tour through the Bat-universe. But unfortunately that tour had to go to its conclusion and ruin everything. The worst part about Hush was ironically... Hush. What a weak reveal that was. It turned out Hush was Mr. Most Likely Suspect, who wasn't even an interesting character with his ambiguous motivation and everything. Hush was just "this guy."

All Hush really did was feel out whether people were ready for Jason Todd to actually be back. But it really hurt the story that it wussed out of actually doing that. I don't mind it too much though, because I really prefer Jason as Red Hood instead of Hush. Red Hood is more interesting and has more story mileage. I just try to ignore how Superboy-Prime factors into it. I tend to try to ignore how Superboy-Prime factors into anything in DC.

The one thing that came out of Hush that I thought was really great was the Riddler. He figured out the big riddle, but like the narcissist he is, couldn't share the answer. I thought that was great idea and opened up all these new possibilities with the Riddler. But then DC quickly smacked him on the head and made him forget, or however they accomplished that. At least Dini seems to have a fresh idea for the character since that one got aborted.

[jesse_custer]

Haha, waitaminute. Loeb actually had Batman and Superman fight each other?

What a hack.

[Splatt]

To me, it felt like Loeb just used his "magic" formula.

Step 1: Get Tim Sale, Jim Lee, Joe Mad or Ed McGuiness as an artist.
Step 2: Introduce a mystery villain or a supporting character.
Step 3: Make the main hero fight every past villain, maybe a hero or two, for no apparent reason.
Step 4: Chicken out near the end, and put a retarded twist on mystery villain's identity.
Step 5: Reveal at the end that it wasn't the mystery villain pulling the ropes, but a well known character. Also, remember to not put any clues that might indicate that a well known character was behind it all.

[rZi]

I didn't think it was bad at all, not without it's flaws though.

Sometimes it was too confusing...both Harvey Dent and hush dress the same, i.e. bandages and trench coat...and ontop of that Hush or Dent flips a coin...now which is it ment to be?

The fact that the riddler masterminded it all too didn't over whelm me, as i thought hush would of been more appropriate.

But the art was fantastic so :cool:

[b..]

To me, it felt like Loeb just used his "magic" formula.

Step 1: Get Tim Sale, Jim Lee, Joe Mad or Ed McGuiness as an artist.
Step 2: Introduce a mystery villain or a supporting character.
Step 3: Make the main hero fight every past villain, maybe a hero or two, for no apparent reason.
Step 4: Chicken out near the end, and put a retarded twist on mystery villain's identity.
Step 5: Reveal at the end that it wasn't the mystery villain pulling the ropes, but a well known character. Also, remember to not put any clues that might indicate that a well known character was behind it all.

what an absolute perfect summation of loeb's writting. any shorter and it'd be my new sig.

[Choppa]

To me, it felt like Loeb just used his "magic" formula.

Step 1: Get Tim Sale, Jim Lee, Joe Mad or Ed McGuiness as an artist.
Step 2: Introduce a mystery villain or a supporting character.
Step 3: Make the main hero fight every past villain, maybe a hero or two, for no apparent reason.
Step 4: Chicken out near the end, and put a retarded twist on mystery villain's identity.
Step 5: Reveal at the end that it wasn't the mystery villain pulling the ropes, but a well known character. Also, remember to not put any clues that might indicate that a well known character was behind it all.

That's a bit harsh don't you think? There was a reason that he had to fight past all his villians in HUSH and there were clues for the Riddler from the beginning. But other than that I'd say that's spot on.

[Tanjint]

what was the clue in regards to riddler?

also, while I agree that the ending to Hush was 'eh'

I think the Bats/Supes battle was great just because it was so damn clever. Bats uses a lot of really smart methods to survive that fight...cause that's all he was really trying to do: survive that fight.

i'll be the first to point out a gratuitous fight scene as I am a huge lover of talking heads/dialogue filled books rather than action-filled books BUT I can appreciate a well done fight scene, especially since there's so many weakly done fight scenes *cough*superhero movies*cough*world war hulk 5 sentry vs hulk*cough*
-T

[carabas]

what was the clue in regards to riddler?Iam told that the big Riddler clue was that he was obviously behind Hush because it really seemed like he was the only Rogue not involved at all.

Loeb Bizarro logic.

[pariah-1972]

Iam told that the big Riddler clue was that he was obviously behind Hush because it really seemed like he was the only Rogue not involved at all.

Loeb Bizarro logic.There were lots of rogues left out but obviously the Riddler was the one of the big ones.

sort of.

[Captain Jim]

Of course there's that old rumor that Jason was originally supposed to be Hush, but that DC nixed it at the last minute. Don't know whether to put any stock in that or not. Anybody ever hear anyone "official" verify this?

[Lorendiac]

Of course there's that old rumor that Jason was originally supposed to be Hush, but that DC nixed it at the last minute. Don't know whether to put any stock in that or not. Anybody ever hear anyone "official" verify this?

I have seen that rumor come up again and again.

But I've kept my eyes open, and I've never yet come across any evidence -- such as an online report of an interview, or a panel discussion, or anything else -- that Jeph Loeb had ever said anything to encourage that rumor. Nor Jim Lee, nor their editor Bob Schreck, nor any other "insider" at DC who might be in a position to know (such as Dan DiDio or Paul Levitz). The rumor seems to be one of those wild ideas that spring out of nowhere and then refuse to go away again!

Likewise, I've said before that if Tommy was only going to operate on Bruce's head, and then die, in the "present day" of "Hush," it made no sense to keep hitting us over the head with all those flashback sequences of when Tommy and Bruce were childhood friends -- especially the flashback in which Bruce stupidly promised Tommy that Bruce's daddy would be able to save Tommy's daddy, and then it didn't work out that way and Tommy threw a fit. I'm confident that Loeb got to do exactly what he wanted with "Hush." (Unfortunately. Better editing might have plugged some of the holes in it.)

[Choppa]

what was the clue in regards to riddler?



The clues were-

1. The kidnapped kid was named Edward.
2. There was a green question mark on Bruce's screen in the batcave :confused:
3. Riddler was the only one who didn't have his tactics evolved.

Bruce kept saying that the explanation is always in the details, hence 1 and 3.


Of course there's that old rumor that Jason was originally supposed to be Hush, but that DC nixed it at the last minute. Don't know whether to put any stock in that or not. Anybody ever hear anyone "official" verify this?

There was a screenshot of the last page of Batman #618 with Tommy revealed as the Trench Coat man instead of Jason (because Jason would later be revealed to be HUSH) on the DC forums, but I don't have it anymore.

[carabas]

The clues were-

1. The kidnapped kid was named Edward.
2. There was a green question mark on Bruce's screen in the batcave :confused:
3. Riddler was the only one who didn't have his tactics evolved.

1 is a really shallow clue. Might as well be Poison Ivy because the kid's father is into defoliants.
As for 3, a great many Bat-villains didn't have their tactics and powers evolved, a few of them even appearing in Hush.

Concerning Todd/Clayface, I find it hard to believe that in a Jim Lee book you can have Clayface not appearing on panel. Hush having always been Todd, untoil Loeb got cold feet after the art was already long done seems more likely. I mean, look how their showdown ended in #18. That is simply not art of Todd turning into clay, that is art of Todd rapidly decomposing and turning to dust because whatever effect that was reanimating him wore off.

[ZombieHavoc]

I read the first 6 issues of the Hush storyline, then dropped the title for the first time since I had started reading Batman.

Picked it back up right after the Hush story finished, but unfortunately the Bat titles, except All-Star Batman and Robin, have never been of the same quality since prior to the Loeb/Lee run.

[Tanjint]

i'm glad you like all-star too. i feel like there's too few of us in the online fan community that do.

-T

[Choppa]

1 is a really shallow clue. Might as well be Poison Ivy because the kid's father is into defoliants.
As for 3, a great many Bat-villains didn't have their tactics and powers evolved, a few of them even appearing in Hush.

Concerning Todd/Clayface, I find it hard to believe that in a Jim Lee book you can have Clayface not appearing on panel. Hush having always been Todd, untoil Loeb got cold feet after the art was already long done seems more likely. I mean, look how their showdown ended in #18. That is simply not art of Todd turning into clay, that is art of Todd rapidly decomposing and turning to dust because whatever effect that was reanimating him wore off.

Hey man, I didn't write it, I'm just relaying what people had said at the time. As for the timing thing, I really can't remmeber that far back to comment.

Oh and I meant to say "the answer is always in the details."

[Slackjaws_ate_my_brain]

I actually dug t, but i do think it was a bit over-hyped. I loaned out the 2 TPBs to a friend of mine that's into Batman as well, and he told me that he hated it, that he just couldn't get into it (which is a shame, since he loved Loeb and was the one that turned me onto Haunted Knight/Long Halloween/Dark Victory).

I wasn't a big fan of either twist, to be honest, because the new character that turned out to be Hush was simply to convenient for me, and I'm not a fan of the Riddler, so to have him as the mastermind behind it all kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

In any case, like i said, Dug it, but found it to be a bit over-rated.