Secret Invasion: Fantastic Four #2 *Spoilers*

[drwho]

This issue was way too short to read in my opinion . Sacasa is a great writer, but this writing seems 100% less in quality than what I was used to in his 4 series. The art does remain in decent quality. It just does not feel like the characters have any soul in this issue. Where things are supposed to come off emotional you get a ho hum feeling. Also Franklin has now been called a 7yr old WTF. I really hate how he can never stay the same age.

Anyway Lyja and Torch fight and we get the typical oh you did not care where I have been conversation. Lyja is not totally evil, but she is turned into a typical coookie cutter villain. Torch saves Lyja from space debris and she says oh you saved me. Then a negative zone squid jelly fish thing grabs Lyja and they work together and free Lyja who then passes out. Thing is busy fighting boring space bugs. Franklin and Valeria show up in some battle suit Reed designed for them. Also their idea for getting back to earth is going to Reed's 42 prison to break out a villain. Now why do that when they can just teleport from 42 to Earth?

I would not recommend it unless you are a die hard ff. fan.

[CMBMOOL]

All I can pray is a OMD story line to fully reboot the FF once and for all. :tongue:

[Pro]

Also Franklin has now been called a 7yr old WTF. I really hate how he can never stay the same age.

Franklin Richards' main mutant power is the ability to stay prepubescent for all eternity.

[CyberCoyote]

Franklin Richards' main mutant power is the ability to stay prepubescent for all eternity.

Franklin's controlling time throughout the whole MU, heck, he impregnated his own mother with his sister who's about his age now.I love the FF but those danged kids. Valeria should be named 'Seven' and vanish just like he did on Married with Children :)

[Alphaxman]

The issue starts off with Johnny remembering some of his past girlfriends witch brings us to where the last issue left off. Lyja is reacting like a scorn ex-wife and begins to attack Johnny. Johnny demands to know where Reed and Sue are.

In the Kitchen Franklin and Valeria comes out of hiding and see it trashed up. Franklin looks about right but 7 is way too young and Valeria is way too old. How can she be just a baby two years ago our time to about 4 or five years old? :mad:
Well anyway, they ran off to Reed’s lab so they can protect themselves.

Ben is still fighting Negative Zone Bugs.

Johnny and Lyja take the fight outside. Johnny learns that she is now immune to his flames. Then she tells him that Reed and Sue are alive and they are too valuable to the Skrulls.
A cop car came flying towards Lyja and Johnny saved her life to her surprise. She is in his arms all flustered and Johnny admits to being an idiot because even though he should be saving his family and getting back to NYC, he has to kiss her “for old times’ sake”.

That’s when a giant energy Jellyfish attacks and grabs Lyja. Johnny tells her he has to let her go but she is hysterical and calling out his name. He tells he to calm down and grab a tentacle and she does. They uses both of there maximum powers to beat the beast.


Thing is about to fight an armored squid and said, “Sigh, Where’s an alien sperm-whale when you need one?”, when Frank and Val comes up from behind him in a 10 ft suit of armor and blast the squid.

They talk a bit about how Reed made the suit for them to protect themselves but Sue yelled at him and he never gave it to them, but Franklin knew where to find it.

Johnny flies back in with an unconscious Lyja and explain ever thing he knows up to this point. Ben and Johnny wonder how they will get out of the Negative Zone and Franklin said that his father has a prison and here and maybe they can get home that way.

Don’t like that Lyja would be with the Skrulls after all this time but its good to see her again. Johnny was written right especially compared to Millar. Plot is thin but it explains why the FF is not in the main story.

Kitson does a great Johnny and Lyja but his Ben is funny looking.

Story: 6
Art: 7

[Samuraixsithlord]

ok here we go

Johnny does a quick recap of all his "important" relationships. Back to the present Johnny and Lyja start to fight. Lyja does the whole "u forgot about me, u don't really love me, u never tried to find be after blah, blah, blah thing".

Franklin and Val come out of hiding after counting to 100 and Franklin carries Val to the FF storage units.

Ben fights and kills a bunch of bugs.

More verbal banter between Lyja and Johnny. Lyja assures Johnny that Sue and Reed are still alive and that they will prove useful to the skrulls after the invasion is over. Johnny tries to warn Lyja about some debri hurtling her way but she doesn't believe him. Johnny save her and they have a moment when they look into each others eyes and start to kiss.

Lyja gets attacked by a large N-Zone native. Lyja and Johnny combine their powers and destroys it. Johnny then knocks Lyja out after the thing is dead.

Val and Franklin show up co-piloting a suit of battle armor that reed made for them in case they came under attack and blast a monster attacking Ben.

Johnny shows up with an unconcious Lyja and explains to everyone what is going on. No one knows what to do until Franklin comes up with the idea of going to the N-Zone prison and finding someone to take them back to earth (Which is obviously going to be Dr. Doom)

[Expletive Deleted]

I've had to delete a few posts, here. Please keep discussion to the issue at hand.

As a statement of policy, I would remind everyone that my only restriction for the starting of threads is a prohibition on stake claiming. If you have objections to the way another poster is starting threads, start some of your own and either beat them to the punch or lead by example. Of all the Marvel Universe releases in a given week, it's rare that all of them get threads.

In any case, if you want to discuss posting etiquette, please do so via PM.

-------

Anyway, I liked the issue. There was some good soap opera for Johnny, a few fun bits of dialogue, and some nice art from Kitson. I'd really like to see this creative team get a shot at the main book at some point.

[Flinkman]

this "review" was nothing more than biased BS IMO.

the issue was great, if you're one of the thousands of people who read the 90s FF run with Lyja like I was, you'll be jumping for joy to be finally getting some form of closure.

not to mention the fact that Aguirre-Sacasa captures the voices of the FF members better than any other writer in the last decade...one can only hope that he'll finally be given his dues and be placed on the FF title proper once the alleged "high profile run" is done.

[Elitehaxxor]

I am a new comic book reader, I basically started picking up books again with the start of "Secret Invasion" and I have to say I enjoyed the FF SI #2 book. Val is clearly not 4 or 5 though based on the way she talks, she strings together 2-3 word sentences ("Daddy Mad?", "Daddy Lab Smashed"). I would say two years old seems right for her.

I enjoyed it, they did a good job of the fill in since I had no idea who Liljya(?) was. I will agree that it was a short read, part three should be interesting though.

[Dr. Chaos]

Don’t like that Lyja would be with the Skrulls after all this time but its good to see her again.
I don't mind it at all.

What attachments does she have other than Johnny? From her POV, she could believe the skrulls have the interests of both races in mind.

Veranke doesn't seem to be a ego serving ruler like Dorrek, if Bendis is to be believed, her plans for Earth aren't completely self serving. I don't have much of a hard time believing that her vision could sway someone like Lyja.

Of course, if you look at it from the " big scary alien invaders coming to destroy the earth and human race" view, it's a lil harder to see.

[mikekerr3]

This is the best FF since well before the CW.:biggrin:

I Like the characterization and even the preternaturally young kids, this is the FF I used to love.

A bit of a short read though:frown:

[SeritoNiN]

I'm surprised so many people found the issue disappointing. I enjoyed it a lot. Heck of a lot more than I thought I would. I loved Sacasa on "4" and now I miss him writing FF, period. Maybe he can fill in after Millars weak run.

Good issue. Curious to see how it ends.

[Spiffy]

I don't mind it at all.

What attachments does she have other than Johnny? From her POV, she could believe the skrulls have the interests of both races in mind.

Veranke doesn't seem to be a ego serving ruler like Dorrek, if Bendis is to be believed, her plans for Earth aren't completely self serving. I don't have much of a hard time believing that her vision could sway someone like Lyja.

Of course, if you look at it from the " big scary alien invaders coming to destroy the earth and human race" view, it's a lil harder to see.
Part of my problem with SI is that the element that the Religo-Skrulls actually think they are doing good isn't being used consistently. It's like certain writers didn't get the memo.

I mean it would have been NATURAL for Lyja, of all Skrulls, to blurt out something like "Johnny, this is for Earth's own good" or some junk like that. And she didn't.

I guess what needs to be discussed is whether or not the last segment in the "Secret Invasion: Who Do You Trust" book, where Venus can't attack the Skrulls because "they aren't Evil" is supposed to be important to the overall plot or not.

[tornshattered]

This is WAY better than World's greatest, plus the art's awesome! They should've done this into the book, not as a limited series. I wish Kitson and Sotomayor were FF regular artist and colorer. It's warmer and friendlier, not some cold army-like like on World's Greatest.
P.S. Val is 4. A 2 yr old talks a lot more limited!

[worstblogever]

I am a new comic book reader, I basically started picking up books again with the start of "Secret Invasion" and I have to say I enjoyed the FF SI #2 book. Val is clearly not 4 or 5 though based on the way she talks, she strings together 2-3 word sentences ("Daddy Mad?", "Daddy Lab Smashed"). I would say two years old seems right for her.


So she sounds slightly more coherent than the first summary listed here? Huh. :biggrin:

This miniseries seems to just be a way to use some old FF continuity, and reintroduce the long-forgotten Lyja while explaining outside of Secret Invasion, proper, why the Fantastic Four aren't getting too involved (outside of them getting pwned in issue #1). It's simplistic enough, and I almost wonder if it really needed to be a three issue series. I think they could tell this whole story in two issues, had they wanted to.

It's not bad, but the pacing has been a trifle slow. Plus, it just keeps coming back to Johnny & Lyja, while Ben fights off Negative Zone inhabitants for the kids. Still no real mention of Reed and Sue this issue, and what their abduction truly means...

[Magneto Rocks]

This is WAY better than World's greatest,

Wow. Really? I know some people don't like World's Greatest (personally, I loved it), but worse than this drivel?

Issue one was okay, but this issue was yawn inducing for me. I read FF in the 90s, I hated Lyja then (Which, to be fair, makes me prejudiced) and she's no deeper or more interesting a character now. Again, I'm probably prejudiced as well due to the fact Johnny is my least favourite FF-er and there's a big focus on him this issue, but it couldn't escape just being a filler story which can't even use half the Four. Nice art, but it reminds me why I dropped Marvel Knights 4... and I guess it reminds me as well why so many people say the FF are boring. After Millar, McDuffie, Waid (Heck, even JMS was poor, but not *BORING*) I'd kinda forgotten the 90s FF. :frown:

[drwho]

This is WAY better than World's greatest, plus the art's awesome! They should've done this into the book, not as a limited series. I wish Kitson and Sotomayor were FF regular artist and colorer. It's warmer and friendlier, not some cold army-like like on World's Greatest.
P.S. Val is 4. A 2 yr old talks a lot more limited!

That is not a hard order these days to fill with Millar butchering the main title. :biggrin: I was a fan of the 90s F.F. and the only thing is the nostalgia of seeing Lyja. To me this reads like the writer brought on his C game and not A. Also as I said in my first post why is the first thing that comes to their minds to break a villain out when the prison can just teleport them back to Earth. That does not make sense to me.

[CyberCoyote]

So when Johnny kisses Lyja does she ask why his lips taste like criminal skank? :)

This is what.. three issues long? Sounds like RAS is being forced to condense things so it can't move along as fluid as it should. Too bad, the story sounds good (and I adore Lyja and want her back in the fold something awful) SOmeone said it'd be Doom in the prison, but solicits indicated a confrontation with the U-Foes.

Hmm.. if the prison's there and everyone's in it then this is before SI.. err.. after.. wait.. when's the regular title if Doom..

it'll pan out. :confused:

[Magneto Rocks]

(and I adore Lyja and want her back in the fold something awful)

...I'm glad someone does. :tongue:



Hmm.. if the prison's there and everyone's in it then this is before SI.. err.. after.. wait.. when's the regular title if Doom..

Doom was in the Raft, not the Negative Zone Prison. As far as we know, the Neg Zone prison wasn't broken open in Secret Invasion #1 whereas the Raft and other mainland prisons were.

...Though there does remain the excellent question as to why they can't just use the giant Negative Zone portal at the prison to transport them to any of the Fifty States but must instead seek help of a villain from the prison.

[Mr.EZ]

That is not a hard order these days to fill with Millar butchering the main title. :biggrin: I was a fan of the 90s F.F. and the only thing is the nostalgia of seeing Lyja.

Is your LCS on Bizarro World? Miller's ruining the FF and the 90's FF were good?

Wha... how... why... huh?

[CyberCoyote]

Is your LCS on Bizarro World? Miller's ruining the FF and the 90's FF were good?

Wha... how... why... huh?

Different strokes for different folks, that's all. Millar got me to stop collecting the FF after over 30 dedicated years, but he's also bringing in new fans. No one can please all the people all the time.

As for Doom on the Raft.. makes more sense. Too bad the awesome RAFT can be busted out of by a power outage :) 42 could have some 'good guys' too that might be able to figure out how to.. you know, point them to the two way transporters :)

[drwho]

Is your LCS on Bizarro World? Miller's ruining the FF and the 90's FF were good?

Wha... how... why... huh?

Millar is the most gimmick filled F.F. writer I have ever read that does dumb simple stories.

1. Uses giant robot in tradition of power rangers.
2. Has Johnny date a villain which he kind of did in Mark Waids run.
3. Has Reed and Sue have their anniversary.
4. Future solicits show alternate Marvel characters
5. Future solicits mention the death of the Invisible Woman
6. Cliche characters like Johnny's agent

Millar is pretty much taking every freaking story idea and cramming it in his run. Seems like the writers following it will have nothing left to be able to write about since Millar will have put together some shoddy story telling with every imaginable plot done in his run. Same here I wont buy F.F. again till Millar is gone and I have been buying forever.

[Mr.EZ]

I haven't been reading Millar's FF, to be honest. I just readily assumed that it would be top notch. I did read the 90's FF and that was God awful, imo.

I stopped readin FF after Waid and Ringo left, figured I'd go back eventually, but I never did.

I'm going to give Millar's FF a shot now though.

[Magneto Rocks]

Ummmm....



1. Uses giant robot in tradition of power rangers.

And the tradition of... oh, I dunno... Lee and Kirby?


2. Has Johnny date a villain which he kind of did in Mark Waids run.

Not even vaguely the same. That was the daughter of the Wizard and she was herslef just a standard, cliché girl. She was not a super-villain and really nothing like Psionics.


3. Has Reed and Sue have their anniversary.

Yup, every writer ever does this. Do you pick on them for the same? Does that make it bad automatically?


4. Future solicits show alternate Marvel characters

Err.... again, so? Sure, it's been done before, so that means it can't be done well? Alternate worlds are a rich part of FF tapestry, that's like sneering that it's ridiculous Millar has used the Baxter Building!


5. Future solicits mention the death of the Invisible Woman

Umm.... yes? I'm not really seeing the huge cliché here, the fact that the story is called it already indicates she's not staying that way. Again, did you call out Waid on the death of the Thing when it led to a great story?


6. Cliche characters like Johnny's agent

He's not even a character, he's a background guy who has appeared like twice! If you want to apply this level of detail to everything, then can I call Ed Brubaker's Cap rubbish because that guy at the bar in Cap #26 who called Cap a traitor was a cliché?


Seems like the writers following it will have nothing left to be able to write about since Millar will have put together some shoddy story telling with every imaginable plot done in his run.

First you complain Millar is using old ideas, then you complain that this means other writers can't use them? If a writer isn't imaginative to come up with something that hasn't just been done in only 14 issues, I'm not sure I want them on FF. There are plenty of legitimate complaints to be made about Millar's FF, but most of what you said is just nitpicking for the skake of nitpicking.


42 could have some 'good guys' too that might be able to figure out how to.. you know, point them to the two way transporters

Actually, naa, the good guys left 42 at the end of the Civil War. It's only been home to villains ever since.

[Mr.EZ]

There are plenty of legitimate complaints to be made about Millar's FF, but most of what you said is just nitpicking for the skake of nitpicking.

Which is why I'm hitting up my LCS this afternoon and picking up Millar's FF run so far. If Dr.Who has problems with it, it must be really, really good.

[drwho]

Oh I also forgot to mention how Millar likes to over inflate his threats such as his uber unstoppable robot created from a bunch of scientist that the world has never heard of that was able to wipe the floor with the whole super hero community. :tongue:

[Magneto Rocks]

Haha, yeah! Cos again, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby never tried to make each threat seem to top all the previous ones....

...every...
..single....
...issue...


Millar got me to stop collecting the FF after over 30 dedicated years

That's something I still find interesting, CC. IIRC, you never had huge problems with the first two issues of Millar's run- you didn't like them at all, but you didn't hate them. But then one bad issue and you were gone? (I wouldn't even call it a bad issue, but different strokes, as you say...) And yet you stuck through the JMS run, when Reed became a Nazi and an idiot and where the FF broke up in the most feeble way in 40 years of breaking up and getting back together again back in 540? Not to mention four straight issues with nary a Johnny in sight...

[drwho]

Sorry but an anti galactus robot suit is a big freaking joke. Reed is not dumb enough to create something like that and actually think it can take on galactus

[Magneto Rocks]

But... er... it didn't take on Galactus. And we don't know how it would have. You're assuming he was just going to punch Galactus with it, but there was nothing to indicate that at all. We know virtually nothing about the Anti-Galactus, other than the appearance, and I doubt all that power was simply so that it could move. Does it really make sense to assume it had absoilutely no other weapons? Not to mention that Galactus can be held off, even beaten, with physical force when particularly hungry and drained, as has been previously demonstrated by John Byrne, no less.

[drwho]

In my opinion you give the writer way too much leeway and for all we know all that thing was built for was an attempt to duke it out with the big G. Tom Defalcos F.F. was a lot more creative storywise in my opinion and he also handled the characters a lot better. Millar's characterization is like reading not so right copies of the F.F. I thought JMS was a lot better also. Millar is the worst F.F. writer I have read in ages. :wink:

[CyberCoyote]

Haha, yeah! Cos again, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby never tried to make each threat seem to top all the previous ones....

...every...
..single....
...issue...



That's something I still find interesting, CC. IIRC, you never had huge problems with the first two issues of Millar's run- you didn't like them at all, but you didn't hate them. But then one bad issue and you were gone? (I wouldn't even call it a bad issue, but different strokes, as you say...) And yet you stuck through the JMS run, when Reed became a Nazi and an idiot and where the FF broke up in the most feeble way in 40 years of breaking up and getting back together again back in 540? Not to mention four straight issues with nary a Johnny in sight...

Well to be honest I pledged long ago that if Millar (at the time it was a gag) ever took over the FF I'd not buy it anyway. I do not like his portrayal of established comic characters (in the MU.. never read his DC stuff) for all the reasons fans go around and around for. And the fact is it wasn't just him, it was the combo of his FF stories.. the whole Bendisverse thing, price of comics, cost of living, etc. His wasn't the knockout blow, just the last knee to the groin in a dark alley way beating that finally put me down :)

I did try to quit when JMS was on board though.. those were absolutely boring comics, but there was light at the end of the tunnel. There's a light now, but it's about 12 or 13 months away so it's a good time to rest :wink: And JMS was actually trying, although not very successfully, to shed a finer light on Reed despite the Civil War stuff, it just wasn't working. And Civil War.. well.. I hated that with a burning white hot passion beyond description. Once again going back to my dislike of Millar's methods of writing established characters. But hey, that's just me. I don't hold anything against anyone else for seeing things differently.

[Magneto Rocks]

In my opinion you give the writer way too much leeway and for all we know all that thing was built for was an attempt to duke it out with the big G. Tom Defalcos F.F. was a lot more creative storywise in my opinion and he also handled the characters a lot better. Millar's characterization is like reading not so right copies of the F.F. I thought JMS was a lot better also. Millar is the worst F.F. writer I have read in ages. :wink:

We must be literally polar opposites on everything FF, because I have never been able to read all of Tom DeFalco's FF, so terrible did I find it, and JMS was to me what Mllar was to CC- he got me to stop reading FF for the first time since I started collecting. (Though I was lured back in by Civil War)

And okay CC, most illuminating- just something I was curious about. :biggrin:

[worstblogever]

I think a better question is... why are we talking about dr. who's opinion of Millar's FF run... when it has little to do with this issue, which was written by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa... don't see what one has to do with the other.

Can we talk about the work at hand?

Like does Lyja give any hint as to the fate of Reed or Sue when she mentions they're captives? Any specifics?

[Mr.EZ]

Like does Lyja give any hint as to the fate of Reed or Sue when she mentions they're captives? Any specifics?

No new info on Reed or Sue as I recall.

[Magneto Rocks]

Like does Lyja give any hint as to the fate of Reed or Sue when she mentions they're captives? Any specifics?

No, but if you look at Tom Brevoort's blog, you can see a page from Secret Invasion #4 which indicates what happens to Reed next. Suffice to say, it ain't good.

[CMBMOOL]

That is not a hard order these days to fill with Millar butchering the main title. :biggrin: I was a fan of the 90s F.F. and the only thing is the nostalgia of seeing Lyja. To me this reads like the writer brought on his C game and not A. Also as I said in my first post why is the first thing that comes to their minds to break a villain out when the prison can just teleport them back to Earth. That does not make sense to me.

What if Tom Defalco uses Lyja in the MC-2 universe/ Spider-girl world ? :redface:

[worstblogever]

No, but if you look at Tom Brevoort's blog, you can see a page from Secret Invasion #4 which indicates what happens to Reed next. Suffice to say, it ain't good.

Could you hook me up w/ a link? That'd be awesome, man.

[CyberCoyote]

Like does Lyja give any hint as to the fate of Reed or Sue when she mentions they're captives? Any specifics?

That is a good question. They've got Reed all stretched out and Sue on ice. They can obviously copy their abilities, so there's more to it that a powerhouse (Sue) and a a stretchy guy. As far as Reed. whatever they want from him must be incredibly important because he's one of the most dangerous enemies they've ever had and dead is the best place for someone of his stature. Sue.. I dunno. What could she have to offer that would make her so valuable? My first guess would be using her as leverage against Reed to get him to comply, but the children would be just as usable there (and theoretically easier to contain)

[CMBMOOL]

Millar is the most gimmick filled F.F. writer I have ever read that does dumb simple stories.

1. Uses giant robot in tradition of power rangers.
2. Has Johnny date a villain which he kind of did in Mark Waids run.
3. Has Reed and Sue have their anniversary.
4. Future solicits show alternate Marvel characters
5. Future solicits mention the death of the Invisible Woman
6. Cliche characters like Johnny's agent

Millar is pretty much taking every freaking story idea and cramming it in his run. Seems like the writers following it will have nothing left to be able to write about since Millar will have put together some shoddy story telling with every imaginable plot done in his run. Same here I wont buy F.F. again till Millar is gone and I have been buying forever.


I agree with everything you just said as Miller's FF is a mess right now, and with Doom on the loose again, it just feels like BND Spider-man without the deal with the devil. In other words it full of rehashed storylines that we have seen before, but with a slight twist in some of them. :mad:

[CMBMOOL]

Actually, naa, the good guys left 42 at the end of the Civil War. It's only been home to villains ever since.

Where was that being told ? :frown:

[CMBMOOL]

No, but if you look at Tom Brevoort's blog, you can see a page from Secret Invasion #4 which indicates what happens to Reed next. Suffice to say, it ain't good.

You got that right. :frown:

[Magneto Rocks]

Could you hook me up w/ a link? That'd be awesome, man.


http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/1182new_storyimage3137416_full.jpg

There you go, direct link to the page in question.


Where was that being told ?

Indicated in Civil War #7, confirmed in a few places including by Tom Brevoort, in Avengers: The Initiative #2, in Frontline #11, in this issue (Where it's referenced as a prison for villains) and in a few other places I can't remember.

[worstblogever]

http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/1182new_storyimage3137416_full.jpg

There you go, direct link to the page in question.



Indicated in Civil War #7, confirmed in a few places including by Tom Brevoort, in Avengers: The Initiative #2, in Frontline #11, in this issue (Where it's referenced as a prison for villains) and in a few other places I can't remember.

Thanks!!!

Man, Yu's art is outstanding...

[mikekerr3]

Thy should give the FF to this writer, and send Millar back to the ulimates, which I don't read:biggrin: :biggrin: :eek:

[mikekerr3]

That is a good question. They've got Reed all stretched out and Sue on ice. They can obviously copy their abilities, so there's more to it that a powerhouse (Sue) and a a stretchy guy. As far as Reed. whatever they want from him must be incredibly important because he's one of the most dangerous enemies they've ever had and dead is the best place for someone of his stature. Sue.. I dunno. What could she have to offer that would make her so valuable? My first guess would be using her as leverage against Reed to get him to comply, but the children would be just as usable there (and theoretically easier to contain)

The Skrull probably want Reed alive until they can converting him to something to feed people, after all that would be fair. Sue helped so why would they not feel the same way about her. Turn about is fair play you know.:smile:

And if they push franklin the writer might give him back his power and the Skrull lose in2 seconds.:biggrin:

[Gaastra]

I liked the 90s fantastic four. I really liked ant-man with with team and got mad when he was killed in avengers.

How did Lyja get her laserblast powers back anyways?

Did she kill laserblast, the doctor who got the powers from her after she had her baby?

It looked like he was going to join the fantastic four then heroes reborn hit and he was forgotten.

Did they tell what happened to him? He had her powers so how did she get them back?

[CyberCoyote]

I liked the 90s fantastic four. I really liked ant-man with with team and got mad when he was killed in avengers.
How did Lyja get her laserblast powers back anyways?
Did she kill laserblast, the doctor who got the powers from her after she had her baby?
It looked like he was going to join the fantastic four then heroes reborn hit and he was forgotten.
Did they tell what happened to him? He had her powers so how did she get them back?

I think the jist of it is that Lyja's 'New' powers were given to her in the same way all the new power Skrulls were made, whatever that process will turn out to be.

I enjoyed the FF in the 90's, too. It was a fun ride with some uncomfortable bumps here and there (Dreadface.. *shudder*) They attempted to make some real changes in the team but in the end everything of course just sifted back to the same old status quo.

[Loner]

Val seems to have jumped to age three with this issue. Given Franklin was 5 before she was even conceived (back in Byrne's run) he should be 8 or 9 now, his aging and deaging notwithstanding - there was no indication he made himself younger than he had been before that timejump.
In fact, I could swear they said he was 8 in one of the Marvel Knights issues. And hey, normal 9 year-olds are doing long division. Shouldn't Reed's kid be able to do some of the repairs himself? ;)

[Samy]

It was an okay issue, but Lyja not being forthcoming with any kind of an explanation seemed off -- she should have tried to explain what was going on to Johnny.

But the worst was Franklin "7 years old"? He was around that old, if not older, during the mid-90s -- BEFORE Val's birth. And Val seems like 4 years old or something, so Franklin should be at least 10-11 or so. That totally dropped me out of the story. 7 is totally implausible.

[scouse mouse]

Does anybody know if this book will be released in the UK this week? Diamond didn't deliver it to any British stores.

[Lupek]

I liked this. More than Secret Invasion actually.

But this all seemed like it should have taken place in the main FF book. Normally I dislike tie ins to big events but the Skrull invasion is so organic to the FF, it seems weird SI hasn't been reflected in the main series yet.

I shouldnt complain, I am liking Millars FF and I am liking this. I will shut up now.

[jackolover]

I just read this and what I find disturbing is that after Johnny Storm finds out there is a major Skrull Invasion, from a Skrull, (his former partner Lyja), by her telling him his sister is captured, and his brother in law is captured, then, instead of Johnny flying into a rage, and going all stone cold on her, he saves her life and they kiss. Is the Torch a total ding bat?

Maybe this happens to the FF every day. I don't know. But if someone told me the world is coming to an end, my family was attacked, and I am being transported to the Negative Zone, I wouldn't be exchanging pleasantries with a Traitor to the family, like Lyja.

And even when Johnny put Lyjas body down on the couch and Ben asked what was going on, why didn't they lock her in a prison cell or at least lock her in restraints. The bitch doesn't care about their welfare. Why should they care about hers.

[Expletive Deleted]

Maybe this happens to the FF every day.Alien invasions, unplanned jaunts to other dimensions, impersonated loved ones, and general mayhem?

Yeah, pretty much.

Honestly, I'm disturbed that you think Johnny going berserk on Lyja would be at all in character.

[jackolover]

Alien invasions, unplanned jaunts to other dimensions, impersonated loved ones, and general mayhem?

Yeah, pretty much.

Honestly, I'm disturbed that you think Johnny going berserk on Lyja would be at all in character.

I know they were lovers in the past, but wouldn't it set off at some sort of alarm bells when Lyja sends the Baxter Building and the kids into the Negative Zone. I mean, the last time the FF saw NZ bugs, you couldn't kill them, so there was a good chance the family were going to get eaten, and here's this bitch cooperating with the Skrulls in creating this situation? I still think the Torch losses his priorities far too easily.

I would think Torch going all berserk on Lyja was well within character in this situation. Did you see how Torch reacted when his sister died in Death in the Family? I think Johnny could lose it for this situation.

[Expletive Deleted]

Did you see how Torch reacted when his sister died in Death in the Family? I think Johnny could lose it for this situation.All he knows is that Lyja was impersonating her. The two situations aren't on the same level.

Johnny's a hothead, but he's not Wolverine. He's not going to try to kill a woman he loves on the basis of a little alien invasion action, property damage, and some suspicious shapeshifting.

And, incidentally, you'll note that she ends up on his side (more or less). Johnny's not a fool, either.

[jackolover]

All he knows is that Lyja was impersonating her. The two situations aren't on the same level.

Johnny's a hothead, but he's not Wolverine. He's not going to try to kill a woman he loves on the basis of a little alien invasion action, property damage, and some suspicious shapeshifting.

And, incidentally, you'll note that she ends up on his side (more or less). Johnny's not a fool, either.

Yeah, Johnny keeps saying he's not a genius. I tend to agree with him.

As to Lyja impersonating his sister, that' wasn't the issue, because she shaped back to Lyja and Lyja told him his sister was captured. Maybe this does happen too often, and Johnny has to see his sister die in front of him for him to get serious. But does he still really love Lyja? I thought that was all past. I don't think he could let Lyja die by being hit by a car, either, but it still warrants a suspicion on the part of Johnny towards Lyja. Hell, the woman went along with the plan to neutralise the FF, whether she changed sides later is immaterial. But as she did later, you can say Torch had some affection for her after, but in this issue, Lyja was a jerk, and she should have been treated like a jerk.

[Frank]

The little discussion about Millar's run and this book etc...I think my opinion is that regular books should have main stay teams that takes time to develop things, that gets to be with a book for the long haul and sometime gets thrown in a big event and embrace it. And there could have a second book(a la Astonishing X-Men, All Star Superman) where a top writer comes in to do something wild with the character(s) for a short while. Because somebody like Millar for instance works on his own beat without caring for the consequences and it can hurt those characters to build long time plans. For instance he comes in and say he's gonna revamp Marvel with Civil War right. But then after doing all this he leaves without his guiding hand to continue what he had done, so the writers are not sure what he wanted to do or do not care for it so what he did was for nothing. Same with the FF: Millar comes in wanting to do what the Hell he wants without regards for anything while the FF should have been important to the Skrull invasion! They are the damn FF! The FF book should in fact have been the mother book for the event but Millar does his own thing and hurts the FF in the process. And I haven't mentioned the way he writes the characters in a shocking manner because he doesn't care about the consequences since he's always only there for just a short while. He doesn't have to live with these characters for three years; he doesn't have to be a caretaker.