Incredible Herc #118 *spoilers*

[CaptainCanada]

2008: A Space Odyssey:

* We open with Ajak narrating a history of how "He" (Kly'bn the Eternal Skrull, the All-Father), and how they conquer various peoples and enslave their gods, making them into mere demonstrations of Kly'bn's power.

* Faced with having to navigate through the Dreamtime, which cannot be traversed using logic (as Cho finds out), they decide to barter with Nightmare for the information.

* Herc is enjoying himself, recalling how it's like they're on the Argo: Ajak is Orpheus (no, Herc, he was Ajax:wink:), Atum is Pollux, Snowbird is Atalanta, Mikaboshi is Pericymenus ("...who I had the pleasure of gutting at the Battle of Pylos."); Ajak asks who that makes Cho, and Herc demures on this.

* Snowbird enquires after Cho's dog, and is told it's a coyote named Kirby (short for Kerberos/Cereberus); Snowbird remarks that the coyote she's familiar with is a trickster, and wonders if Cho isn't being obstructive. Cho says Mikaboshi is the one they need to keep an eye on.

* They arrive at Nightmare's HQ, and agree to exchange insight into their fears (since Nightmare normally has no access to the fears of gods, and he's curious) for the information they require: Nightmare then hooks them up to these tubes:

Herc's fear is being unable to do anything to help himself and others, symbolized by the disappearance of his companion Hylas (Cho's analogue on the Argo).

* Nightmare reveals that with access to the fears of Gods, he will be able to take over the entire waking world. Cho objects, so Nightmare imprisons him too; Cho fears that everything bad that's happened in his life (his parents' death, the Hulk's betrayal, his pup's crippling, Herc's doom) is all his fault. Snowbird big fear is survivor's guilt over not being at Alpha Flight's side in New Avengers #16. But what Nightmare really wants to know is the fear of Atum, the Elder God. The answer: Eternity, since he embodies the prospect of the world never ending, and Atum cannot abide that. Nightmare then finds that the Mikaboshi he ensnared is just a dupe, and then hears Kirby howling; Herc hears it inside his dream, breaks out of Nightmare's clutch, and punches him right in the face ("I ****ING HATE MAGIC!!!"). The others are freed, and Nightmare unleashes everything that any rational mind has ever feared (including an IRS man), prompting them to flee quickly.

* Herc's plan was that while Nightmare was busy betraying them, Mikaboshi would rummage through his lair for a map of the Dreamtime (which he found), so they have their info, and plot a course for the realm of the Skrull Gods.

* Snowbird retreats to her quarters to weep over everyone she knows being dead. Herc arrives to talk with her, leading to hot "I don't want to be alone" sex, which is being watched by...Kirby, who eyes are glowing green.:eek:

---------------

I love this book so, so much. It just continues to be really awesome.

There's no follow-up to Mikaboshi's question about Athena here, at least that we're shown, which is kind of off, since that would seem to be the sort of question that Herc would want to answer.

Pak and Van Lente continue to do an awesome job at portraying gods here; in particular, Atum's fear is utterly brilliant (and makes neat use of an extant Marvel character in a logical way).

Oh, and Herc's a stud.

[wolvie616]

sweet to the bamf degree

[drwho]

This issue was awesome and I love the writers are able to continue to blend in past Hercules mythology into this storyline. All the gods are likable. It was interesting seeing them mention Alpha Flights death here. As for Kirby yeah that was a surprise. So Kirby is either a skrull, or possessed by some other being. I am really excited also how the writer is developing the story as well by showing what happens to gods that have been defeated by Skrulls in the past. I really like how the dialogue is so complex also as you mentioned the trickster coyote by snow bird and at the end Kirby may in fact be a trickster coyote.

[CMBMOOL]

Something that I was hoping that Pak and Van Lante can cover at the end of this arc is that not all of Alpha Flight is dead as there is still Sasquatch and Tailsman who are the only remainding AF members that are still alive besides Snowbird. :frown:


Also nice move by Herc anyway. :redface:

And the ending WOW, didn't see that coming. :frown:

[Drdmx]

Who was it an issue before that asked about Athenas eyes being green?

If it was Kirby, then perhaps he's the actual skrull. If not, then how many could be on the team? OR, posession was mentioned earlier too. These are Skrull (Shapeshifter extrordinaires) Gods right? It wouldnt be out of the realm of thought that they may be expecting an attack from the God Squad. I dont have the money to follow this series like I want, but wow, this sounds like the best ongoing out there. Kudos to the IH Team.

[drwho]

Mikobushi is a dark god that mentioned Athena's eyes were green. Thing is he could have been doing that just to mess with the group.

[Dorsai]

Snowbird: I just needed to be held.
Hercules: (In his best Andrew Dice Clay voice) You got the bonus plan...

I am really enjoying this series so far. The last page was indeed a WTF!? kind of moment.

People may say SI is predictable, a bit silly, and not very cerebral. Yeah, that may be true. But so far, books like this one are making it a really fun summer read. I don't think it will get an Eisner award but I am definitely looking forward to most of the SI stuff that ends up in my file.

"Immortalizing" the person that named Kirby was a nice touch. I'm sure in addition to the mythical reference and technology reference, I'm sure an homage to The King was a part of it.

[Drdmx]

Around my neck of the woods, SI is an AWESOME Arc. I'm converting DC followers like crazy. Take the Crisis storylines that are happening over in DC. Friends that like DC are freaking out over the straight issues of SI. They like the feeling of un-predictability. You as the reader REALLY dont know who to trust. That's awesome in a story, and I'm sure it's what Marvel was going for. More power to them.

[protege]

I'm sorry- but is herc going to be sleeping his way around the marvel Universe?

[Kevinroc]

I'm sorry- but is herc going to be sleeping his way around the marvel Universe?

That's not so different from how he normally acts. Though he's still got a long way to go if he's going to compete with Tony Stark and Matt Murdock on that front. :tongue:

[protogarrett]

Puppy + Skrull = Skruppy!

[Chino]

is 110 the best place to start on this book or should I go back to WWH or what?

[protege]

That's not so different from how he normally acts. Though he's still got a long way to go if he's going to compete with Tony Stark and Matt Murdock on that front. :tongue:

Have we ever seen him bed a marvel heroine before?

[Shyft]

sounds awesome, although im a little dissapointed that ANOTHER book has ended with

"Character xyz who you thought was a good guy has green eyes, so may be a Skrull!ooooooooooh!"

i know we are in the middle of Secret Invasion, but its hardly a cliff hanger any more.

[PaintballKobold]

Wait... so the Puppy is a Skrull?

People turning out to be skrulls isn't much of a twist at this point, but I have got to admit... I doubt ANYONE say that coming...

[CaptainCanada]

is 110 the best place to start on this book or should I go back to WWH or what?
#112 is the best place to start (or, if you just want to try it out first, #116 to the current issue). The first four issues, plus the Hulk vs. Herc special (which is basically a Herc Annual) are collected in hardcover coming out in early July (http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Hercules-Against-World-Premiere/dp/0785133127/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213834007&sr=8-1).
Have we ever seen him bed a marvel heroine before?
Black Widow, back in the 70s.

[Drdmx]

I disagree with regards to people turning out to be skrulls. I think it's the whole premise of the event. It's not about WHO turns out to be a skrull, but what effect that has on the story. The queen approaching Stark calling him a skrull comes to mind.

If it's the green eye thing that bugs you, it's simply the writers/artists way of prefacing plot development. I dont see why that's so bad, especially since you can only do that in a story where you dont know who's who.... like Secret Invasion.

[Venom Melendez]

I'm sorry- but is herc going to be sleeping his way around the marvel Universe?


No one complains when Tony Stark does it.

[Tobias Drake]

This raises so many questions. It's awesome.

The puppy hasn't really left Cho's sight much. If the puppy is the Skrull, it kinda implies that the puppy has been a Skrull since Cho first found him. Which in turn implies that the Skrulls have been playing Cho since day one. Which raises some interesting questions about who killed Cho's parents.

[Peter F.]

This raises so many questions. It's awesome.

The puppy hasn't really left Cho's sight much. If the puppy is the Skrull, it kinda implies that the puppy has been a Skrull since Cho first found him. Which in turn implies that the Skrulls have been playing Cho since day one. Which raises some interesting questions about who killed Cho's parents.

Nick Fury killed them because the Skrulls had replaced them. The real Chos have been in hiding with only Fury knowing where they are.

[Dr. Chaos]

I'm sorry- but is herc going to be sleeping his way around the marvel Universe?
We can only hope.

And no, I don't think Kirby is a skrull, he's running on Warbound tech and he was healing in fluid of the same nature, theres no telling what effect that might have had on him but I'm guessing one of those aftereffects would be the green eyes which are an allusion to The Hulk (This is "Incredible" after all, cute references and old villians are bound to pop up, the latter we see in this very issue).

[Elitehaxxor]

is 110 the best place to start on this book or should I go back to WWH or what?

I started with 112, I felt a little lost at first because I didn't know who Cho was or how Herc came to be on earth, but after some wikipedia and browsing at the LCS I picked it up fine.

[ivesaidway2much]

is 110 the best place to start on this book or should I go back to WWH or what?I would advise starting with 106. It's the first WWH tie-in. I believe that's when Cho and Herc first met. So starting from there should give you all the background you need.

[Dr. Chaos]

I would advise starting with 106. It's the first WWH tie-in. I believe that's when Cho and Herc first met. So starting from there should give you all the background you need.
I don't think he needs to go that far back.

I think the start of Incredible Hercules and a quick five minute character read on Wikipedia to familarize yourself with the two will work fine.

I don't think the series requires any real backtracking beyond the starting issue of the title change to enjoy, thats where I started myself, the book feeds you the rest as you need it, including Herc's massive history.

[mikekerr3]

Wait... so the Puppy is a Skrull?

People turning out to be skrulls isn't much of a twist at this point, but I have got to admit... I doubt ANYONE say that coming...

Coyote eyes Glow green when the are in the dark and have a light sining in them? Maybe its just a twist to mess with us.

, Either that or a very small Skrull. A ten pound or so Skull seems pretty strange,

SI in the main book is kind of "meh' but the cross-over books have been great even the FF which havent had a really good story in years. This a GotG both kicked my ass with surprises.

[Dr. Chaos]

It's a shame we didn't get to see Mika-Boshi's fears...I was practically salivating for that one.

What was with Nightmare's reaction to Kirby howling? Is there something I'm missing?

[Skrulk]

I'm sorry but everyone in this thread is ignoring the blatant clues being thrown at us left and right. Open your minds a little more people, not everyone is a skrull. Think about the clues that we have been given thus far. So both Athena and the Puppy have green eyes. Could they both be skrulls? Sure why not. My theory is that one is a skrull and one is our favorite trickster. Who recently was resurectted as a woman? Who's got bright green eyes? Who's a TRICKSTER? Loki my friends. Athena was very against going to recruit Thor for this little suicide mission. Wonder why? We know that Loki has formed an alliance with Doctor Doom who has in turn formed alliances with Namor and the Red Skull. Thats 4 badass villians that would definetly have something to say about a Skrull takeover. Who's to say that Loki isn't trying to sabotage the God Squad or better yet try to form an alliance with the Skrulls? After all he's not the god of trickery for nothing. Mark my words. This new Masters of Evil group thats been slowly building over the last 2 years is going to have a big impact on this Secret Invasion.

[drwho]

Loki seems way too farfetched just because the Thor title is still getting rolling. Interesting theory, but I am more likely to think that Nightmare possessed the coyote, or if I recall correctly dont some of the newer solicits mention [spoil]the mindless ones[/spoiler] Perhaps Dormamu possessed the coyote and will be working behind the scenes until that storyline shows up.

[PatchMadripoor]

I'm sorry but everyone in this thread is ignoring the blatant clues being thrown at us left and right. Open your minds a little more people, not everyone is a skrull. Think about the clues that we have been given thus far. So both Athena and the Puppy have green eyes. Could they both be skrulls? Sure why not. My theory is that one is a skrull and one is our favorite trickster. Who recently was resurectted as a woman? Who's got bright green eyes? Who's a TRICKSTER? Loki my friends. Athena was very against going to recruit Thor for this little suicide mission. Wonder why? We know that Loki has formed an alliance with Doctor Doom who has in turn formed alliances with Namor and the Red Skull. Thats 4 badass villians that would definetly have something to say about a Skrull takeover. Who's to say that Loki isn't trying to sabotage the God Squad or better yet try to form an alliance with the Skrulls? After all he's not the god of trickery for nothing. Mark my words. This new Masters of Evil group thats been slowly building over the last 2 years is going to have a big impact on this Secret Invasion.

Loki is too busy planning the fall of resurrected Asgard.

Next.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Arrrr! Not the puppy! Never would have I accused Kerberos of being a skrull. loved the final part.

[Dr. Chaos]

I don't know whats weirder.

The sole prospect of a skrull turning into a coyote pup in it's self or a skrull turning into a coyote pup to watch Hercules have sex.

[Tobias Drake]

I don't know whats weirder.

The sole prospect of a skrull turning into a dog in it's self or a skrull turning into a dog to watch Hercules have sex.

He's curious. The Skrulls have always wondered how Hercules manages not to break the women he's with. It's vital research for the invasion!

[mikekerr3]

I'm sorry but everyone in this thread is ignoring the blatant clues being thrown at us left and right. Open your minds a little more people, not everyone is a skrull. Think about the clues that we have been given thus far. So both Athena and the Puppy have green eyes. Could they both be skrulls? Sure why not. My theory is that one is a skrull and one is our favorite trickster. Who recently was resurectted as a woman? Who's got bright green eyes? Who's a TRICKSTER? Loki my friends. Athena was very against going to recruit Thor for this little suicide mission. Wonder why? We know that Loki has formed an alliance with Doctor Doom who has in turn formed alliances with Namor and the Red Skull. Thats 4 badass villians that would definetly have something to say about a Skrull takeover. Who's to say that Loki isn't trying to sabotage the God Squad or better yet try to form an alliance with the Skrulls? After all he's not the god of trickery for nothing. Mark my words. This new Masters of Evil group thats been slowly building over the last 2 years is going to have a big impact on this Secret Invasion.

Maybe the Cutote is the America Coyote spirit/god that would explain a lot and not require a minature Skrull. The pup is too well liked to dispose of that way. and I think Loki is too smart to anger another trickster by using his totem.

Loki want power over Asgard, a Skrull takeover involve the killing of the gods so why would she want to help them kill her.

I think Loki is making plans despite the invasion or for after it. On the invasion she has as much reason to fight the Skrulls as Tony Stark or anyone else

[Somebody]

Wait... so the Puppy is a Skrull?

People turning out to be skrulls isn't much of a twist at this point, but I have got to admit... I doubt ANYONE say that coming...
Heh. Yup - I certainly didn't.

This raises so many questions. It's awesome.

The puppy hasn't really left Cho's sight much. If the puppy is the Skrull, it kinda implies that the puppy has been a Skrull since Cho first found him. Which in turn implies that the Skrulls have been playing Cho since day one. Which raises some interesting questions about who killed Cho's parents.
Cho has to sleep SOMETIME...

[voltron]

but what is with the dogs legs?
they looked like wheels

[Somebody]

but what is with the dogs legs?
they looked like wheels

Black Widow broke Kirby's back in the last arc. It's a doggy- (well, coyote-) wheelchair.

[Dr. Chaos]

Cho has to sleep SOMETIME..
Actually he doesn't, the minute he sleeps, he knows the man will once again try to get him down and force him to become a part of their neo con fascist machine.

Destroying SHIELD was a cry for help and Tylenol PM.

[Scott Taylor]

Ok great issue, but enough with the green eyes cliffhangers! These guys at Marvel are killing me here.

Skruppy, heh.

[Loner]

Well, puppies grow really fast, and this one hasn't in what has to be at least a month or two of running around with Cho, so it might be a Skrull.

[PaintballKobold]

I highly doubt that Kirby is Loki... It really doesn't seem to fit. I would Assume Loki would appear in Secret Invasion: Thor with Baldur and Beta Ray Bill.

And no, I don't think Kirby is a skrull, he's running on Warbound tech and he was healing in fluid of the same nature, theres no telling what effect that might have had on him but I'm guessing one of those aftereffects would be the green eyes which are an allusion to The Hulk (This is "Incredible" after all, cute references and old villains are bound to pop up, the latter we see in this very issue).

Are you sure that the pup is running around with Warbound Tech? I though Cho tossed him in the tube after they jacked the hellicarrier.

While I LOVE the idea of a Hulked out Kirby saving the day... I don't think it's gonna happen.


At this point I see four possibilities on what could be going on with Kirby.

1: Kirby is a Skrull.
-This would be one hell of a twist... I mean come on... The PUPPY is a Skrull?

2: Kirby is the Native American God, Coyote, in Puppy form.
-Considering what Snowbird said I think this is quite possible. If Kirby is the trickster god, then he probably joined Cho in the beginning to make mischief. If Kirby IS Coyote, I wouldn't be surprised if Coyote has grown attached to Cho by now, which could lead to him staying on the cast later on after it is revealed.

3: Kirby is Actually Cerberus in Puppy form.
-It is possible that Kirby is in fact Cerberus itself. If so, the he could have been sent to Cho by one of the Olympians to watch over Cho, and serve as a moral compass. Chances are if this is it, then it will be revealed is a awesome two page spread of Kirby going Cerberus and saving the God Squads collective butts in the battle against the Skrull Gods.

4: Kirby is a puppy of Cerberus.
-You never know... He could have inherited some of his father s power if this is the case.

5: Kirby has become Gamma Infused.
-Kirby could theoretically be Gamma infused like the Hulk or Samson. If so, this could manifest in a Gamma Transformation later on in the story arc leading to Kirby hulking out in the Skrull god battle and saving the Squads collective butts.



...Then again I could be reading WAY to much into this, and Kirby is just a normal coyote pup...

[SeritoNiN]

Skrull dog....yep...done with this book till after invasion.

Part of me feels the smart kid is a skrull too, either way, haven't been feeling this book since it went into invasion tie-in mode.

[Dr. Chaos]

5: Kirby has become Gamma Infused.
-Kirby could theoretically be Gamma infused like the Hulk or Samson. If so, this could manifest in a Gamma Transformation later on in the story arc leading to Kirby hulking out in the Skrull god battle and saving the Squads collective butts.
This is basically what I was getting at so if these are the possibilities, minus any transformations (which I don't see happening), I think we actually agree on this one.

I think the puppy's enhanced in other ways than mechanical, whatever Cho did to him, I'm convinced thats the answer behind the eyes.

Not unlike my stance where fans thought Amadeus was going to go supervillian in the first arc when they teased that, I'm not convinced he's a skrull in the slightest, if this wasn't Incredible maybe I'd see it a lil differently but as of now, I definitely don't see it. Though I do love them playing up that aspect of the event.

[mikekerr3]

I highly doubt that Kirby is Loki... It really doesn't seem to fit. I would Assume Loki would appear in Secret Invasion: Thor with Baldur and Beta Ray Bill.



Are you sure that the pup is running around with Warbound Tech? I though Cho tossed him in the tube after they jacked the hellicarrier.

While I LOVE the idea of a Hulked out Kirby saving the day... I don't think it's gonna happen.


At this point I see four possibilities on what could be going on with Kirby.





...Then again I could be reading WAY to much into this, and Kirby is just a normal coyote pup...

The coyote god is not like Loki, he often tricks people to help them learn, he is not a malevolent figure in the myths.

Kind of freindly and wise with a wicked and rough sense of humor.

I hope its him or a coyote not a skrull, I like the pup as Cho's sidekick.

[Dr. Chaos]

Who else thinks we'll go through Sacred Invasion without a single skrull reveal?

I honestly don't think there will be one at this point, not every tie-in has to have one.

If I had to put money on one I'd like to see though, it would be Mika-Boshi or Ajak (one of the two being one of the skrull gods).

[PaintballKobold]

The coyote god is not like Loki, he often tricks people to help them learn, he is not a malevolent figure in the myths.

Kind of freindly and wise with a wicked and rough sense of humor.

I hope its him or a coyote not a skrull, I like the pup as Cho's sidekick.


I never said Coyote was Loki... I said that Kirby would not be Loki... But Kirby MAY be Coyote. Please read my whole post next time...


And in all seriousness... It would be impossible for Loki to be the puppy. Cho got the puppy before Thor brought back the other Norse Gods.

[mikekerr3]

I never said Coyote was Loki... I said that Kirby would not be Loki... But Kirby MAY be Coyote. Please read my whole post next time...


And in all seriousness... It would be impossible for Loki to be the puppy. Cho got the puppy before Thor brought back the other Norse Gods.

Yuo wer impliing that the Coyote trickster was like Loki's brand of trickster. If that was not what you meant i apologise.

I was pointing out that the two trickster gods were very different.

[Pixie_Solanas]

My first issue and i'm shocked at how good this is. I just added this s.o.b. to my pull list (goodbye Uncanny, i've gotta drop someone and you've been boring me for far too long).

[Pixie_Solanas]

Around my neck of the woods, SI is an AWESOME Arc. I'm converting DC followers like crazy. Take the Crisis storylines that are happening over in DC. Friends that like DC are freaking out over the straight issues of SI. They like the feeling of un-predictability. You as the reader REALLY dont know who to trust. That's awesome in a story, and I'm sure it's what Marvel was going for. More power to them.

Frankly, it's the side books like Herc and Captain Britain that have me even remotely interested in SI.

If I went strictly on Bendis's series, and in the Avengers books, i'd rightfully lambast the story as contrived b.s. Unpredictability?

It's telling that writers like Pak and Cornell are simply running circles around Bendis in his "magnum opus" crossover extravaganza. Hmm, Savage Land? Still???! ZZzzzzZZZ

[Drdmx]

All I saw was you saying it was contrived B.S., and some statement about how Pak is running circles around Bendis.

Not that I disagree with the Pak as a writer statement, but do you actually have a reason you feel that way about the story, or are you just kinda saying that? I only ask cause I felt I conveyed why I thought it was a good story. You honestly dont think that the possibilities of Tony turning out to be a skrull coupled with the obvious ramifications that realization would have throughout the MU is just a tiny bit interesting?

[Rock It Raccoon]

everything on this book is clicking like magic.

first i thought the whole kirby reveal was a red herring, meant to throw some doubt on cho's actions (snowbird makes some statements alluding to this), but frankly the development was so perfectly executed that it could completely go either way. athena did tell cho he'd have to do the hardest thing he'd ever done, and killing kirby just might be it. then again, the actual way the eyes glowed made me think otherwise. looking at the cover for the next issue, its not like he has green eyes, he has GREEN EYES shining like freakin signal flares. i kinda like the gamma theory, but i feel like i would've noticed if kirby took a gamma dose.

can't wait til the next ish.

[Rock It Raccoon]

oops, just noticed that kirby's eyes weren't glowing in the image on marvels website, just the one in the back of the book. probably doesn't mean anything.

[mikekerr3]

everything on this book is clicking like magic.

first i thought the whole kirby reveal was a red herring, meant to throw some doubt on cho's actions (snowbird makes some statements alluding to this), but frankly the development was so perfectly executed that it could completely go either way. athena did tell cho he'd have to do the hardest thing he'd ever done, and killing kirby just might be it. then again, the actual way the eyes glowed made me think otherwise. looking at the cover for the next issue, its not like he has green eyes, he has GREEN EYES shining like freakin signal flares. i kinda like the gamma theory, but i feel like i would've noticed if kirby took a gamma dose.

can't wait til the next ish.


HAve yo never seen a dog looking into the light, from the dark? Glowing eyes are the norm.

Could means something could mean nothing

[mikekerr3]

All I saw was you saying it was contrived B.S., and some statement about how Pak is running circles around Bendis.

Not that I disagree with the Pak as a writer statement, but do you actually have a reason you feel that way about the story, or are you just kinda saying that? I only ask cause I felt I conveyed why I thought it was a good story. You honestly dont think that the possibilities of Tony turning out to be a skrull coupled with the obvious ramifications that realization would have throughout the MU is just a tiny bit interesting?

I think that the tie ins have all been much better than the main series for the Silent Invasion.

I don't think that there is any drama with the Tony might be a Skrull bit because Marvel would not touch that with a pole. More guts than they have ever shown would be required, so there is no drama there.

[Drdmx]

I dont think anyone's made the statement that the tie-in books/storys might not be better than the series. It wouldnt be out of character for Marvel to do it like that (reference: WWH). That said, as a writer for a different book that ties into the event, isnt that the challenge? If I'm not on the main story, I would assume that any writer would go out of their way to make their book so damn interesting to keep the consumer purchasing your title while the event is taking place.

No drama in the main though? I still gotta disagree with that. I feel like you're saying that Tony ending up a skrull, or even the POSSIBILITY of it wouldn't rock the Super Hero community, with long lasting effects. Lines have been crossed, people have died. This is stretching back a long time in the MU, prior to the dramatic Civil War. I have a hard time believing that everything would just fall back to the old status quo, with no long lasting effects that could produce some potentially excellent stories.

[mikekerr3]

I dont think anyone's made the statement that the tie-in books/storys might not be better than the series. It wouldnt be out of character for Marvel to do it like that (reference: WWH). That said, as a writer for a different book that ties into the event, isnt that the challenge? If I'm not on the main story, I would assume that any writer would go out of their way to make their book so damn interesting to keep the consumer purchasing your title while the event is taking place.

No drama in the main though? I still gotta disagree with that. I feel like you're saying that Tony ending up a skrull, or even the POSSIBILITY of it wouldn't rock the Super Hero community, with long lasting effects. Lines have been crossed, people have died. This is stretching back a long time in the MU, prior to the dramatic Civil War. I have a hard time believing that everything would just fall back to the old status quo, with no long lasting effects that could produce some potentially excellent stories.

I don't see even the slightest possiblity of Tony being a Skrull or any character with their own book, or a large fan base. There is no drama when there is not even the slightest possibility that it will happen.

And an alien force led bu the Hulk invaded and smashed much of NYC and the damage was repaired without anyone noticing it had happened outside of the mini.

If I though that Marvel had the guts to make any dramatic changes there would be a lot more drama, but even the SHRA is fading away as it interferes with too many books and is too cumbersome to continue.

[Drdmx]

I feel like you're missing the point. It's not whether or not you as the reader believes Tony may or may not be a skrull, it's what the potential for that plot element lays out to the rest of the MU.

An example that comes to mind is Reed's collaboration on creating a Thor Clone during the Civil War era. Reeds done some things with Starks collarboration over the last few years that would seem out of character. There's story there, similar to the way things played out between Reed and Sue when they disagreed on the Registration Act. What about others? What about the relationship between pro/anti registrates? This doesnt need to take place during SI, but this is good story fodder that can be used after the event takes place.

I dont understand your persistance with calling out Marvel on it's guts. I get that you apparently dont have high expectations for the company and plot developments. But if you're still reading it's books, something must keep you coming back. I was highly skeptical on the idea of Planet Hulk, and we all know the effect that arc had on many readers. I'm not gauranteeing any story tie in's to SI will be great, I'm just saying the potential is there.

[Pixie_Solanas]

You honestly dont think that the possibilities of Tony turning out to be a skrull coupled with the obvious ramifications that realization would have throughout the MU is just a tiny bit interesting?

No, I don't. Tony as a Skrull would be a retcon on the most ridiculous level this side of Xorn/Magneto. Or Mary Jane never marrying Peter Parker. If that's the big denouement, an easy papering-over the complexity brought to the Tony Stark character since "Civil War", then sign me off for this insulting tripe.

And have we seen anything remotely interesting in NA, MA, or SI yet? A lot of innuendo (who's the Skrull) and some overly-long Savage Land battlescenes.

Anyway, Secret Invasion can be boiled down to one overly-simplistic idea: Whose recent continuity can we successfully disregard, ignore and redo, all under the guise of some skrull skullduggery? Yeah, let's guess who.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I feel like you're missing the point. It's not whether or not you as the reader believes Tony may or may not be a skrull, it's what the potential for that plot element lays out to the rest of the MU.

.

So we're supposed to buy into this just based on the potential of it happening - even though if it did, it would be the biggest cop out ever? Sorry, I like my scripted drama with a bit more authenticity than some tacked-on deus ex machina like "hey, it was a skrull all this time! hee hee!"

[Drdmx]

So we're supposed to buy into this just based on the potential of it happening - even though if it did, it would be the biggest cop out ever? Sorry, I like my scripted drama with a bit more authenticity than some tacked-on deus ex machina like "hey, it was a skrull all this time! hee hee!"

Only reason I used the term "potential" is because it hasn't been confirmed on whether or not Tony is a skrull. It would be irresponsible of me to assume he is one yet, just like it would be irresponsible of you to call it "The biggest copout ever" just because you dont like it.

In your prior post you called it a retcon. That just seems so.... tunnel visioned to me. Other heroes have made decisions alongside Iron Man which could have some serious ramifications. That's a chance for character development for alot of different stories if done right. Why's that a bad thing? You seem to feel like alot of character development will be yanked out of Iron Man simply because Stark may turn out to be a fraud. I look at it as a chance for others to step up and shine just as well. Focusing alot of development on a limited amount of figures in the Universe can definitely be a bad thing. Look at DC with all the focus on Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Give it a chance before you knock it.. or at least dont automatically label something a flop just because you dont want that to happen to your favorite character.

[ANewHope]

I think you guys are thinking way too hard. Kirby could simply be Athena tagging along.

Yeah it could be anything, but I figured Iwould add this to the realm of possiblities. Sorry if its already been mentioned.

And yes, Incredible Herc 117 is a great jumping on point.

[Pyro]

I love this book so much! It's so much fun. Though if I had one complaint, it's that I'm not that fond of the way they write Herc's dialogue. I guess he's picked up a lot of modern sayings from Cho, but I think he was way more fun when he spoke in that ancient style.

first i thought the whole kirby reveal was a red herring, meant to throw some doubt on cho's actions (snowbird makes some statements alluding to this), but frankly the development was so perfectly executed that it could completely go either way. athena did tell cho he'd have to do the hardest thing he'd ever done, and killing kirby just might be it. then again, the actual way the eyes glowed made me think otherwise. looking at the cover for the next issue, its not like he has green eyes, he has GREEN EYES shining like freakin signal flares. i kinda like the gamma theory, but i feel like i would've noticed if kirby took a gamma dose.That's an interesting prediction, about Cho possibly having to kill Kirby. That would be sad seeing as how he just got such a cool name, but I think it has even nastier implications. Killing puppies was an important part of Hitler Youth training wasn't it? What if killing Kirby puts Cho on that dark path that's been hinted at?

I agree with you though, it could go either way, in terms of who's a threat right now.

[Pyro]

If I had to put money on one I'd like to see though, it would be Mika-Boshi or Ajak (one of the two being one of the skrull gods).I think Ajak actually has a chance of being a Skrull. At the moment he's one of the least likely, so that makes me suspect him. Also, we didn't get to see his fear, and for no good reason unlike Mikaboshi (unless it was simply page count).

Oh, and Sandoval's picture of Eternity was super cool.

[scouse mouse]

The latest Cup O Joe has previews of 119 that show when Kirby was replaced by Skrulls.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=411606972
I hope he is going to be all right!:frown:

[Flâneur]

The latest Cup O Joe has previews of 119 that show when Kirby was replaced by Skrulls.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=411606972
I hope he is going to be all right!:frown:

I don't see where Kirby is being replaced?

[Dorsai]

I don't see where Kirby is being replaced?

It is at the very bottom in the 3 scanned pages. From the scans, it looks like some Skrully-SWORD agents take Cho into a tent and gas him. You can see the arm of one of the agents lifting Kirby and taking it to a Skrull sitting behind the desk. You then see one of them say "He loves you."

The "Plains Lord" could refer to a coyote if you are talking about the American Plains and not the Veldt. "The least among them" line may be pointing to either Cho or Kirby.

[CMBMOOL]

I have to say I should have known that something was screwy in the aftermath of WWH with the first Incredible Hercules issue.

Now we have some prove. :tongue:

[crimson red]

I just looked at the preview for Eternals #2 and Ajak comes out...
His human form looks very different as he did in Incredible Hulk appearances...
uhm...so how many skrulls are actually on that ship?!@

[Push You Down]

I don't see where Kirby is being replaced?

http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vY3JlYXRpdmUubXlzcGFjZS5jb20vZ3JvdXBzL1 9tY2IvbXljdXBvam9lL3dlZWswMTYvSGVyYzExOXBnMy5qcGc

Really? Don't see it?