What The Gay Brain Looks Like

[Lester C.]

According to this article, gay men have the brain of straight women and gay women have the brain of a straight man. The implications of this story, if true, scares me from a sociological point of view as I think this story gives fuel to bigots. I'm sure you will have idiots arguing that being gay is a birth defect similar to Downs syndrome and gay people need to be treated accordingly.



http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html?cnn=yes

[Pink Bat Maxine]

This is what the gay male brain looks like:

http://www.moma.org/images/collection/FullSizes/Minnelli_StLouis.jpg

This is what the lesbain brain looks like:

http://www.eastbrunswickinfo.com/ebdoc/2007_Fall/2007-09-08_Field_Hockey_large/Field_Hockey-3.jpg

Research is still pending on bisexual brains and transgender ones.

[WhiteRose]

No no no, I have the brain of a transvestite fella. I still love the ladies, but I want to dress up in skirts and play Hockey.

FIELD Hockey.

[Cam63]

It's a coincidence it's a sport where you get to hit balls ?

[Infra-Man]

The gay brain looks faaaab-u-luss.

This is what the lesbain brain looks like:

http://www.eastbrunswickinfo.com/ebdoc/2007_Fall/2007-09-08_Field_Hockey_large/Field_Hockey-3.jpg

It appears I'm also a lesbian.

[Buzz Dixon]

According to this article, gay men have the brain of straight women and gay women have the brain of a straight man. The implications of this story, if true, scares me from a sociological point of view as I think this story gives fuel to bigots. I'm sure you will have idiots arguing that being gay is a birth defect similar to Downs syndrome and gay people need to be treated accordingly. [/url]You mean like the way children with Downs syndrome or hairlips are aborted when discovered in pre-natal exams?

[Grazzt]

Having ripped out my brain and placed it into a super-powerful robot body, I can vouch for both sides being the same size.

[Gail Simone]

According to this article, gay men have the brain of straight women and gay women have the brain of a straight man. The implications of this story, if true, scares me from a sociological point of view as I think this story gives fuel to bigots. I'm sure you will have idiots arguing that being gay is a birth defect similar to Downs syndrome and gay people need to be treated accordingly.



http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html?cnn=yes

I would THINK this would be a powerful blow against those who want to believe that being gay is a behavioral choice, like the decision to eat marshmallow peeps every day.

Doesn't this add to the data that suggest there is a genetic component?

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I would THINK this would be a powerful blow against those who want to believe that being gay is a behavioral choice, like the decision to eat marshmallow peeps every day.

Doesn't this add to the data that suggest there is a genetic component?

You give too much credit to such people. Sure, some may see that as a blow to their stance on the issue, but most would probably forget their former argument (behavioral choice) and go for the birth defect route.

[Trey Krimsin]

You give too much credit to such people. Sure, some may see that as a blow to their stance on the issue, but most would probably forget their former argument (behavioral choice) and go for the birth defect route.

Some people will still rely on their ignorance and continue with that belief. Stubbornness can be a great hindrance to humanity and its progress.

[Matt Algren]

You mean like the way children with Downs syndrome or hairlips are aborted when discovered in pre-natal exams?
It's been suggested, and not that long ago.

[Red Jack]

I would THINK this would be a powerful blow against those who want to believe that being gay is a behavioral choice, like the decision to eat marshmallow peeps every day.

Doesn't this add to the data that suggest there is a genetic component?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads to a conclusion that isn't determinative in terms of a dogmatic outlook.

If I prove, conclusively, that the dominant determining factor that creates homosexuals is genetic, that's enough for me to say to folks, "See? They came out of the box that way, so it's all good."

But, as has been pointed out in this thread, if you conclude a priori that there's a set of minimum characteristics that add up to a "viable and healthy" human being- two working eyes, two working ears, all working limbs and digits, etc. it's not a big leap to look at brains that seem to go against the body's gender as "defective" and therefore worthy of correction.

With a world view like that there's no difference between tweaking your kid's genes to prevent his/her blindness (or whatever) and doing so to prevent his or her homosexuality. This was the central theme of the play THE TWILIGHT OF THE GOULDS but it's not fiction anymore. The average straight parent, while maybe accepting of a kid who turns out to be gay, would still act to prevent that "deviation" in advance if they could. Just as parents of a particular ethnicity would opt for their kids to look like them when they arrive if given the choice.

We have to make the social decision that homosexuality is natural and to-be-accepted because, the more science that's created on the subject, the more fuel the bad guys have for their position.

And there's no way to tell parents who now have the option of doing something they think is "corrective" for their baby not to do so. It would be impossible to police.

The more hard science there is about this subject (too early), the worse it will be for the future of homosexuals as a group.

The social change must come first.

[Flâneur]

Hmmm ... this doesn't establish a great deal. Most scientific studies upon homosexuality, even ones run by gay men like LeVay, usually have very poor procedure for population sampling. Many 'concrete' bodies of scientific data which are cited by both sides of the debate are surprisingly corrupt - even today.

The first question I'd ask is where they found their homosexual test subjects - how many of the subjects experienced 'gender non-comformity syndrome', what cultural context and also whether a clear distinction was drawn between transexuals and homosexuals (the latter has been a problem in quite a few studies).

My hackles also went up as soon as I read the headline for an article about this elsewhere - 'Gay men found to have brains like women' - which has so many embedded assumptions about gender in it that it's frightening (and apart from that, I can't help giggling at the idea that it could be scientifically proven that one day all us gay men think like Kylie ... not that that's relevant to my point but still). Normally I would attribute this kind of phrasing to the media but if you just browse through databases on JSTOR/Factiva etc. to have a look at the various scientific experiments then you see many scientists with almost identical outlooks. In the mid 90s for example, Hamer, a prominent theorist in this field, even reported single men who lived with their mothers after the age of 30 as closeted homosexual even if they identified as hetero. It sounds remarkably backward and unenlightened for a scientist but he did it all the same and despite this, Hamer's work (the twin studies) is still cited by gay advocacy groups as proof of our biology.

Also ... this kind of test has been done before over quite a few years ago, I think, by a guy called Dörner where he tested the brains of 21 homosexuals, 20 heterosexuals and 5 bisexuals (all male). He concluded that homosexuals possessed brains which a female differentiated brain. The problem with this however is that he didn't get the same findings from the bisexual men (which didn't change his conclusions nor its acceptance in the scientific community) who also experienced same sex desire. So while he has some of data which correlates the brain of the homosexual male to the female, it did not demonstrate whether same sex desire was located in the brain in the same way.

Not only is Dörner's study telling as to how scientific data can be mishandled due to social assumptions (male/female gender preconceptions) but it also causes one to consider something about this study - where are the bisexuals? They'd introduce a control which could determine as to whether same sex desire is actually located in the brain in this matter.

Ultimately this study says next to nothing for either side of the debate to use ... they will need to take it about a million miles further before it actually says anything about us.

[Timberoo]

I would THINK this would be a powerful blow against those who want to believe that being gay is a behavioral choice, like the decision to eat marshmallow peeps every day.

Doesn't this add to the data that suggest there is a genetic component?

I am, as you probably sussed out, a gay man. I don't believe that anyone is born gay or chooses to be gay. I don't believe anyone is born straight, either. I believe that our sexuality develops as part of our cognitive development and is just a part of what we find we like and what we find we don't. I think it is society that tries to force us into a box and 'pick one and stick to it.'

[Red Jack]

I am, as you probably sussed out, a gay man. I don't believe that anyone is born gay or chooses to be gay. I don't believe anyone is born straight, either. I believe that our sexuality develops as part of our cognitive development and is just a part of what we find we like and what we find we don't. I think it is society that tries to force us into a box and 'pick one and stick to it.'

The math doesn't support that. While it's not a "choice," using phrases like "no one is" when talking about biology is not sound.

In fact, the vast majority of humans, indeed all primates, are "born" heterosexual. A small subset are born homosexual. Hence the trouble with bigots.

Yes, there is some "nurture" involved in terms of how that sexuality is expressed but, for the most part, it's a "nature" issue.

[Cam63]

The math doesn't support that. While it's not a "choice," using phrases like "no one is" when talking about biology is not sound.

In fact, the vast majority of humans, indeed all primates, are "born" heterosexual. A small subset are born homosexual. Hence the trouble with bigots.

I thought the trouble with bigots was they're dumb, insensitive wankers.

[Red Jack]

I thought the trouble with bigots was they're dumb, insensitive wankers.

I think that's a bit shortsighted. A great many bigots are quite intelligent. Fearful. Deadly on occasion. But not invariably stupid.

[Chuck Dixon]

You mean like the way children with Downs syndrome or hairlips are aborted when discovered in pre-natal exams?

I can speak to both sides of this issue.
The tests for Downs syndrome for preborns are so unreliable and iffy that only the squirreliest mom and dad would opt for termination. I would imagine a test for "gay brain" would be even more dicey should anyone be Orwellian enough to come up with one and any parent be be pinheaded enough to request it (and worse, act upon it).
In both of my wife's pregnancy's the docs did everything they could to scare the living daylights out of us and kept bring up our "options." In the end we left it up to God and it's all worked out fine (until they start driving).
We saw ten fingers, ten toes, two eyes and went all in. I think if they'd asked me if I wanted to test my baby for gayness I'd have slugged someone.
And I was born with the wickedest harelip any of my doctor's had ever seen. Maybe it's the parents who'd pull the plug on their kid for an easily fixed defect that need the retrobortion.
Gail, in Bane's origin, I made it clear that his brain structure was very similar to the ones mentioned in the article; a symetrical brain with a deeply divided corpus collosum. Might want to think about that when writing him, hm?
Guess the joke's on me.

[Cam63]

Hairlips are buggers. How old were you when you had the surgery done, Chuck ?

[Chuck Dixon]

I was five weeks old.
I thank my mom; the most persistant woman on Earth. She pestered doctors until she found one at the Cleft Palate Clinic of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia who was performing a surgery that was experimental at the time but is the standard now. I recently ran into an ENT doctor in his eighties who assisted in my surgery! He remembered it all these years later!

[thespianphryne]

Oh lord, that article is so in the realm of speculation and "we really don't know what this data means, but we need more studies" that getting worked up over it is silly. What I find most interesting about this article is the sensationalist way in which the headline and article is phrased. Men who think and act like women. ONOES


-Das

[Cam63]

I was five weeks old.
I thank my mom; the most persistant woman on Earth. She pestered doctors until she found one at the Cleft Palate Clinic of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia who was performing a surgery that was experimental at the time but is the standard now. I recently ran into an ENT doctor in his eighties who assisted in my surgery! He remembered it all these years later!

That's one cool mum.

[Paul McEnery]

Gail, in Bane's origin, I made it clear that his brain structure was very similar to the ones mentioned in the article; a symetrical brain with a deeply divided corpus collosum. Might want to think about that when writing him, hm?
Guess the joke's on me.

Oh Chuck, one look at that outfit told us that a long long time ago.

Not to mention his crush on the bat.

[Chuck Dixon]

Oh lord, that article is so in the realm of speculation and "we really don't know what this data means, but we need more studies" that getting worked up over it is silly. What I find most interesting about this article is the sensationalist way in which the headline and article is phrased. Men who think and act like women. ONOES


-Das

Men who think like women!
Men who can still reason no matter how angry they are!
Men like that would win every argument and rule the world!

[Paul McEnery]

Oh lord, that article is so in the realm of speculation and "we really don't know what this data means, but we need more studies" that getting worked up over it is silly. What I find most interesting about this article is the sensationalist way in which the headline and article is phrased. Men who think and act like women. ONOES


-Das

My response was: I thought we already knew that.

So long as we remember we're talking about statistical variance.

[darkhanamaru]

Ok. all we know is that homosexual men and woman seem to share on average similarities in certain parts of the brain. But what drives me crazy is that the key takeaway is left to the end of the article: how the men and the women acted out their sexuality was completely different. So having these structures don't seem to be feminizing the men's sexuality - attraction to a man isn't enough to say a man has a feminine sexuality for me. Get back to me scientist when you determine what these shared structures are actually indicating if anything beyond maybe similar hormonal conditions during fetal development.

[Buzz Dixon]

I can speak to both sides of this issue...My point, exactly (and my wife and I have had the experience of a tactless doctor suggesting she abort "just to be on the safe side"). Children have been aborted for apparently having Down's syndrome and in at least one case for having a cleft palate. No matter how liberal and enlightened a lotta folks would like to believe they are, I fear too many of them would opt out if there was any evidence, no matter how flimsy, that their children would be less than perfect.

[Chuck Dixon]

The brain structure would probably deal with the desire/attraction factor alone, right?
The testosterone (and related chain of hormones) would determine feminine and masculine properties. It would certainly explain macho gay guys and effeminate straight guys and dispel unfair stereotyping. Same for the ladies, right?

[Paul McEnery]

The brain structure would probably deal with the desire/attraction factor alone, right?
The testosterone (and related chain of hormones) would determine feminine and masculine properties. It would certainly explain macho gay guys and effeminate straight guys and dispel unfair stereotyping. Same for the ladies, right?

That's exactly right.

Butch and femme are not the same thing as straight or gay are not the same as male and female are not the same as submissive and dominant are not the same as quite a lot of other things I should think.

[Red Jack]

There you guys go, thinking again.

[Hybrid2]

There you guys go, thinking again.

Next thing you know they'll be having ideas. :rolleyes:

[Chuck Dixon]

I guess it's just a big, wide, wacky world we live in.
It's safe to assume that, right?
The more we learn about ourselves the less linear and comprehensible it is.
Carl really is blessed by the knowledge that, on his deathbed, he will receive total enlightenment.

[darkhanamaru]

The brain structure would probably deal with the desire/attraction factor alone, right?
The testosterone (and related chain of hormones) would determine feminine and masculine properties. It would certainly explain macho gay guys and effeminate straight guys and dispel unfair stereotyping. Same for the ladies, right?

I am not entirely convinced they have proved that these shares brain structures are the cause of the attraction. From wiki: The amyglada is "shown in research to perform a primary role in the processing and memory of emotional reactions". If it is involved in the processing of memory than why couldn't the shared structures be a product of a lifetime of experience of being attracted to the same person. This calls for more and earlier testing. I would also would want to know if damage in this area can cause a switch in attraction.

[Gail Simone]

I can speak to both sides of this issue.
The tests for Downs syndrome for preborns are so unreliable and iffy that only the squirreliest mom and dad would opt for termination. I would imagine a test for "gay brain" would be even more dicey should anyone be Orwellian enough to come up with one and any parent be be pinheaded enough to request it (and worse, act upon it).
In both of my wife's pregnancy's the docs did everything they could to scare the living daylights out of us and kept bring up our "options." In the end we left it up to God and it's all worked out fine (until they start driving).
We saw ten fingers, ten toes, two eyes and went all in. I think if they'd asked me if I wanted to test my baby for gayness I'd have slugged someone.
And I was born with the wickedest harelip any of my doctor's had ever seen. Maybe it's the parents who'd pull the plug on their kid for an easily fixed defect that need the retrobortion.
Gail, in Bane's origin, I made it clear that his brain structure was very similar to the ones mentioned in the article; a symetrical brain with a deeply divided corpus collosum. Might want to think about that when writing him, hm?
Guess the joke's on me.


Huh. I might be missing the implication on that...can you further explain the Bane comment, Chuck?


My problem with the rest of the post is that we can't extrapolate much worthwhile from what WE would do from our own principled stance. The "squirrelly" parents are likely none too rare, in the real world, unfortunately.

But I agree with a previous poster that this isn't exactly a door-closer on the nature vs. nurture debate. Whatever way the science leads is what matters to me, whatever it might add up to be.

[Paul McEnery]

I am not entirely convinced they have proved that these shares brain structures are the cause of the attraction. From wiki: The amyglada is "shown in research to perform a primary role in the processing and memory of emotional reactions". If it is involved in the processing of memory than why couldn't the shared structures be a product of a lifetime of experience of being attracted to the same person. This calls for more and earlier testing. I would also would want to know if damage in this area can cause a switch in attraction.

Ah, well as my understanding goes, I think that's way more true for women-brain than man-brain. I think man-brain is less flexible and more focused on specific desires which then build into inflexible emotional aggregates, but woman-brain is more plastic and likely to form desire around emotional connotations.

It'll be interesting to see if they can show a connection between the imbalanced mutant brain of the heterosexual male and the one-track mind.

[Chuck Dixon]

Huh. I might be missing the implication on that...can you further explain the Bane comment, Chuck?


Bane has a woman's brain.
And LOTS of testosterone.

[Dazzler]

Come on. You don't need the brain evidence to prove that Bane likes to boogie down brown alley.

I mean. Come on. There's only one gayer character I have ever seen at DC comics, and that's Hawkman.


--Dazz

[Gilda Dent]

I would THINK this would be a powerful blow against those who want to believe that being gay is a behavioral choice, like the decision to eat marshmallow peeps every day.

Doesn't this add to the data that suggest there is a genetic component?

No. They're looking at the brains of adults divided by orientation. We know that life experience and learned behaviors make changes in the brain's structure and function, so it's possible that the experience of being gay changed the brain, and not the other way around.

In other words, we don't know whether this variance is the cause or the result of the subjects' sexuality, or a little of both.

What it does indicate, as do the brain imaging studies from a few years back indicating that the brains of gay men and straight women react to male pheremones in similar ways, and the brains of lesbians and straight men react to female pheremones in similar ways, is that there is like a biological component of some sort involved in homesexuality, probably several of them interacting in complex ways, which is why it's important to look at sexuality and gender as not one thing, but several related things.

JeffreyWKramer has posted many times what the science currently indicates, which is that males are born with their orientation fixed at birth, but for lesbians the causes are less clear and there's far less evidence of a prenatal cause in most and more evidence of life experience being a factor.

Personally, I think the brain structure acts as a positive feedback mechanism; the experience of being gay changes the brain, which in turn reinforces the attraction one feels.

And as others have pointed out, while learning about the causes and origins of human behavior is beneficial in that having more knowledge is better than having less, it's pretty much irrelevant to the bigger issue of how homosexuals should be treated.

How a person came to be homosexual is irrelevant to the question of how homosexuals should be treated by society. Because neither the orientation nor the behavior can be shown to be inherently harmful to either the individual or society as a whole, there is no reason to stigmatize or punish it.

[Red Jack]

No. They're looking at the brains of adults divided by orientation. We know that life experience and learned behaviors make changes in the brain's structure and function, so it's possible that the experience of being gay changed the brain, and not the other way around.

In other words, we don't know whether this variance is the cause or the result of the subjects' sexuality, or a little of both.

What it does indicate, as do the brain imaging studies from a few years back indicating that the brains of gay men and straight women react to male pheremones in similar ways, and the brains of lesbians and straight men react to female pheremones in similar ways, is that there is like a biological component of some sort involved in homesexuality, probably several of them interacting in complex ways, which is why it's important to look at sexuality and gender as not one thing, but several related things.

JeffreyWKramer has posted many times what the science currently indicates, which is that males are born with their orientation fixed at birth, but for lesbians the causes are less clear and there's far less evidence of a prenatal cause in most and more evidence of life experience being a factor.

Personally, I think the brain structure acts as a positive feedback mechanism; the experience of being gay changes the brain, which in turn reinforces the attraction one feels.

And as others have pointed out, while learning about the causes and origins of human behavior is beneficial in that having more knowledge is better than having less, it's pretty much irrelevant to the bigger issue of how homosexuals should be treated.

How a person came to be homosexual is irrelevant to the question of how homosexuals should be treated by society. Because neither the orientation nor the behavior can be shown to be inherently harmful to either the individual or society as a whole, there is no reason to stigmatize or punish it.

You go, girl.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I guess it's just a big, wide, wacky world we live in.
It's safe to assume that, right?
The more we learn about ourselves the less linear and comprehensible it is.
Carl really is blessed by the knowledge that, on his deathbed, he will receive total enlightenment.

I'm offended by what you said!

Wait, not offended..... what's the term?

I agree with you. (Except for the Carl bit. I got no idea who you mean there!)

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Come on. You don't need the brain evidence to prove that Bane likes to boogie down brown alley.

I mean. Come on. There's only one gayer character I have ever seen at DC comics, and that's Hawkman.


--Dazz

What of 'The Gay Ghost'? Sure, he hasn't really been seen since the Golden Age, but........

But, yeah, Bane's totally got the 'Roided-Out-Leather-Daddy/Gym-Queen thing down pat.

[JeffreyWKramer]

What of 'The Gay Ghost'? Sure, he hasn't really been seen since the Golden Age, but........

He eventually became the Grim Ghost.

Maybe that night with Bane was the cause of that change.

[Dazzler]

What of 'The Gay Ghost'? Sure, he hasn't really been seen since the Golden Age, but........

But, yeah, Bane's totally got the 'Roided-Out-Leather-Daddy/Gym-Queen thing down pat.

Right? Dude is a prime candidate for some forbidden love.

And as for the Gay Ghost...he doesn't count. He has the word "Gay" in his name, which can only mean he's straight. Don't ask me how that works.
Although, I did think of one gayer character than Bane and Hawkman....and that's Extrano!

--Dazz

[Dazzler]

He eventually became the Grim Ghost.

Maybe that night with Bane was the cause of that change.

Oh, snap. That's what I'm talking about.

--Dazz

[Pink Bat Maxine]

And as for the Gay Ghost...he doesn't count. He has the word "Gay" in his name, which can only mean he's straight. Don't ask me how that works.

Then, what of the good people of Gay City?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l39/Derak_P/GayCity1.jpg

Yes, Dazz. Your #1 lover from comics is ordering Clark Kent to go to Gay City. And..... Kent seems a little eager to go there, doesn't he?

[Dazzler]

Then, what of the good people of Gay City?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l39/Derak_P/GayCity1.jpg
Man. Clark sure is enthusiastic about "getting down there" and "covering" that "big story", isn't he?

In case you missed my subtle implications, I'm talking about oral sex. With men. By Clark Kent.

--Dazz

[Dazzler]

Yes, Dazz. Your #1 lover from comics is ordering Clark Kent to go to Gay City. And..... Kent seems a little eager to go there, doesn't he?
Perry White makes my panties go ping. I can't help it. I won't help it. He will be mine.

That big lug of sexy, sexy beast.

--Dazz

[Gilda Dent]

Right? Dude is a prime candidate for some forbidden love.

And as for the Gay Ghost...he doesn't count. He has the word "Gay" in his name, which can only mean he's straight. Don't ask me how that works.
Although, I did think of one gayer character than Bane and Hawkman....and that's Extrano!

--Dazz

The Gentleman Ghost, though, totally gay.

Wasn't the "gentleman" part of "gentleman bachelor" code for "gay" back in the day? If not, I'm hoping to start a rumor that it was, 'cause I think that would be cool.

[JeffreyWKramer]

In case you missed my subtle implications, I'm talking about oral sex. With men. By Clark Kent.


Hey, he's one of the World's Finest.

[Dazzler]

The Gentleman Ghost, though, totally gay.

Wasn't the "gentleman" part of "gentleman bachelor" code for "gay" back in the day? If not, I'm hoping to start a rumor that it was, 'cause I think that would be cool.
Oh, for real. The Gentleman Ghost was gayer than Ghandi. I don't know about the code part (confirmed bachelor, though....totally gayola), but if you decide to start that rumor, I would be with you 100%.

--Dazz

[Dazzler]

Hey, he's one of the World's Finest.
And who's the other? Oh YEAH, that's right.

Super Crazy Big Homo Batman. They trade tips!

--Dazz

[stealthwise]

Gail, in Bane's origin, I made it clear that his brain structure was very similar to the ones mentioned in the article; a symetrical brain with a deeply divided corpus collosum. Might want to think about that when writing him, hm?
Guess the joke's on me.

Bane's part of the new Secret Six?

What a scoop! *hits Rich Johnston's number on speed dial*

[Dazzler]

Bane's part of the new Secret Six?

What a scoop! *hits Rich Johnston's number on speed dial*

Lookit CHEW with your detective skills! I glossed right by that!

Nice! :biggrin:

--Dazz

[Pink Bat Maxine]

And who's the other? Oh YEAH, that's right.

Super Crazy Big Homo Batman. They trade tips!

--Dazz

And by 'tips' you mean....... ?

[Dazzler]

And by 'tips' you mean....... ?

Duh.

Prostate massages.

--Dazz

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Man. Clark sure is enthusiastic about "getting down there" and "covering" that "big story", isn't he?

In case you missed my subtle implications, I'm talking about oral sex. With men. By Clark Kent.

--Dazz

Oooooh..... I see what you did there. Dang!

[Dazzler]

Oooooh..... I see what you did there. Dang!

Some people complain my humor is too subtle. I just call it nuanced.

--Dazz

[Pink Bat Maxine]

The Gentleman Ghost, though, totally gay.

He's kinda the Tennessee Williams of the Supervillian set, isn't he?

[saintsaucey]

It appears I'm also a lesbian.


I was thinking that exact same thing

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I was thinking that exact same thing

You were thinking that Infra-Man's a lesbian? :confused:

[saintsaucey]

You were thinking that Infra-Man's a lesbian? :confused:
lol.......

[Flâneur]

No. They're looking at the brains of adults divided by orientation. We know that life experience and learned behaviors make changes in the brain's structure and function, so it's possible that the experience of being gay changed the brain, and not the other way around.

In other words, we don't know whether this variance is the cause or the result of the subjects' sexuality, or a little of both.

What it does indicate, as do the brain imaging studies from a few years back indicating that the brains of gay men and straight women react to male pheremones in similar ways, and the brains of lesbians and straight men react to female pheremones in similar ways, is that there is like a biological component of some sort involved in homesexuality, probably several of them interacting in complex ways, which is why it's important to look at sexuality and gender as not one thing, but several related things.

JeffreyWKramer has posted many times what the science currently indicates, which is that males are born with their orientation fixed at birth, but for lesbians the causes are less clear and there's far less evidence of a prenatal cause in most and more evidence of life experience being a factor.

Personally, I think the brain structure acts as a positive feedback mechanism; the experience of being gay changes the brain, which in turn reinforces the attraction one feels.

And as others have pointed out, while learning about the causes and origins of human behavior is beneficial in that having more knowledge is better than having less, it's pretty much irrelevant to the bigger issue of how homosexuals should be treated.

How a person came to be homosexual is irrelevant to the question of how homosexuals should be treated by society. Because neither the orientation nor the behavior can be shown to be inherently harmful to either the individual or society as a whole, there is no reason to stigmatize or punish it.

I ... I think I love you. You're like Foucault except that you actually make sense.

[Timberoo]

The math doesn't support that. While it's not a "choice," using phrases like "no one is" when talking about biology is not sound.

In fact, the vast majority of humans, indeed all primates, are "born" heterosexual. A small subset are born homosexual. Hence the trouble with bigots.

Yes, there is some "nurture" involved in terms of how that sexuality is expressed but, for the most part, it's a "nature" issue.

Math or no, it's still my opinion.