May Spidey sales ( Yes, it dropping again)

[philly]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080616-diamond-salescharts.html

20: Amazing Spider-man #558 75.56


21: Amazing Spider-man #559 72.85


23: Amazing Spider-man #560 72.66

Its out of the top ten and barley in the top 20.

[carabas]

It also seems to have dropped under that magical Amazing+Sensational+Friendly monthly sames number.

[matthewaos]

Still those numbers are not bad. I suspect this is the Gale issues? I heard it was not that good.

[philly]

Still those numbers are not bad. I suspect this is the Gale issues? I heard it was not that good.

The Gale issue was the one that sold the most that month. The other two are the Dan Scott issues.

It seems to me that Dan Scott will not keep his word on the bet he made in Newsarama.

[Matt Linton]

Based on chart postion, those are very bad. It depends on what the actual sales are, though, since this was a month that saw Secret Invasion #2, Final Crisis #1, Avengers/Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men, Batman RIP (two issues), three Avengers Secret Invasion tie-ins, and King's Dark Tower, all "big" books.

[philly]

Based on chart postion, those are very bad. It depends on what the actual sales are, though, since this was a month that saw Secret Invasion #1, Final Crisis #1, Avengers/Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men, Batman RIP (two issues), three Avengers Secret Invasion tie-ins, and King's Dark Tower, all "big" books.

That's still bad, no matter what came out that month.

[Matt Linton]

That's still bad, no matter what came out that month.

Not if most of those books sold over 100K. We have an index number, so at this point we don't really know the difference in issues sold from April to May. There's also the fact that they use Batman, I believe, to determine the index number, and it's one of the event books this month.

[Jake V]

Ouch. Can't say I'm surprised, as I dropped the book a month or so ago.

Though it's worth noting that the index is based on Batman's sales, and his RIP story just started, and a spike in Batman's sales would effect the index of all the other books.

Not an excuse, but it might be best to wait for the actual numbers to come out in a few days.

[Alpow]

Looking at how a range of titles sold the previous month I would say Batman sold roughly 100,000 copies meaning those index figures are going to approximate the actuals.

The last two issues probably sold about 73,000, we may see figures hit that 70,000 benchmark before the August event.

[philly]

Not if most of those books sold over 100K. We have an index number, so at this point we don't really know the difference in issues sold from April to May. There's also the fact that they use Batman, I believe, to determine the index number, and it's one of the event books this month.

And yet Captain America, Thor and Uncanny XMen beat it that month and nether has 100k. Even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and JLA beat it. Regardless of the event books, that's still a bad drop.

[Matt Linton]

And yet Captain America, Thor and Uncanny XMen beat it that month. Even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and JLA beat it. Regardless of the non-event books, that's still a bad drop. That's less than half a dozen event books. My point is that until we see the actual numbers, we don't even know for certain that there was a drop in sales, and if there was, we don't know how much of one.

[philly]

That's less than half a dozen event books. My point is that until we see the actual numbers, we don't even know for certain that there was a drop in sales, and if there was, we don't know how much of one.


There was a drop in sales and regardless again of the event books, that's not good.

[Matt Linton]

There was a drop in sales and regardless again of the event books, that's not good.

Oh, there WAS a drop in sales? Do you have a source for that, because no one else seems to have the actual numbers.

You might be right that there was a drop, and if there was, that's not good. But you don't know, and for some reason you seem unwilling to admit that no one knows yet.

[Maestro]

Things will pick up with the Thunderbolts/Symbiote arc, don't worry

[philly]

Oh, there WAS a drop in sales? Do you have a source for that, because no one else seems to have the actual numbers.

You might be right that there was a drop, and if there was, that's not good. But you don't know, and for some reason you seem unwilling to admit that no one knows yet.


Looking at what Newsarama has, its a drop and regardless of the actuals that will come out, its still looks below of the sales in April which means that the book has dropped again, right or wrong? You are saying that the events might have something to do with it but if that was the case, then why is the other books that don't tie into any of the events outselling it? Come on...you have the nerve to say I'm unwilling but yet you are not looking at what is right front of you, the book has dropped in sales again.

[Rahul]

Ouch. Can't say I'm surprised, as I dropped the book a month or so ago.

Though it's worth noting that the index is based on Batman's sales, and his RIP story just started, and a spike in Batman's sales would effect the index of all the other books.

Not an excuse, but it might be best to wait for the actual numbers to come out in a few days.
Off topic: Dude, where is that avatar from? Had me laughing!

On Topic: Well it was bound to happen (not because I dont think its great comics), but non event books generally tend to suffer in sales...

[Will.S]

Things will pick up with the Thunderbolts/Symbiote arc, don't worry
It's definitely going to hit big numbers during the John Romita Jr arc.

[Prof. Warren]

Based on chart postion, those are very bad. It depends on what the actual sales are, though, since this was a month that saw Secret Invasion #2, Final Crisis #1, Avengers/Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men, Batman RIP (two issues), three Avengers Secret Invasion tie-ins, and King's Dark Tower, all "big" books.

Yes, even though ASM is well out of the Top Ten this month, the fact that a number of major event titles and tie-ins that normally wouldn't be taking up chart space all hit the shelves in May means that something had to give. Given that, the drop down is disappointing but not worrisome. And while some would point to titles like Thor and so on ranking above Spidey, we're talking three issues of Spidey as opposed to one issue of Thor, Cap, and so on. That represents much less of a committment to the buyer who's already picking up extra titles. I imagine if Spidey was still three seperate books, you'd see the single issue of ASM charting higher but the two ancillary titles hanging somewhere outside the top thirty or lower.

[Matt Linton]

Looking at what Newsarama has, its a drop and regardless of the actuals that will come out, its still looks below of the sales in April which means that the book has dropped again, right or wrong? You are saying that the events might have something to do with it but if that was the case, then why is the other books that don't tie into any of the events outselling it? Come on...you have the nerve to say I'm unwilling but yet you are not looking at what is right front of you, the book has dropped again.

Okay, speaking entirely hypothetically, lets say Secret Invasion sold 200K, Final Crisis sold 195K, Avengers/Invaders sold 125K, Invincible Iron Man sold 100K, etc. When you have a higher ceiling, it's possible for a book to sell the same amount from one month to the next, and still be further down in the sales charts.

Again, hypothetically speaking, with the likely bump in Batman sales (the book that's used to determine the index number) it's even possible for ASM to have sold MORE than it did last month, and still drop in the overall charts, if the books ahead of it are simply selling more.

The difference is, I'm talking about things that are possible, and admitting that's all they are, while you're talking about something as if it's a definite fact when there's no real way to confirm that yet.

[gary]

Based on chart postion, those are very bad. It depends on what the actual sales are, though, since this was a month that saw Secret Invasion #2, Final Crisis #1, Avengers/Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men, Batman RIP (two issues), three Avengers Secret Invasion tie-ins, and King's Dark Tower, all "big" books.

think this is a really important point that most people seem to be overlooking. We are seeing late books shipping (Astonishing), new titles (Iron Man), double-shipping titles (Mighty Avengers), books moving up due to crossovers (Batman), and new miniseries (Final Crisis and Avengers/Invaders). With all this activity it's no surprise that Amazing has plummeted down the chart, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there has been a significant drop in sales.

The nature of the revolving creative teams will inevitably mean that some months will sell better than others. Even IF the book is losing sales every month, this is only normal. You only have to read Paul O'Brian's columns every month to see that the majority of titles decline month on month, spike up when an event occurs, and then continue their decline.

[StoneGold]

Looking at what Newsarama has, its a drop and regardless of the actuals that will come out, its still looks below of the sales in April which means that the book has dropped again, right or wrong? You are saying that the events might have something to do with it but if that was the case, then why is the other books that don't tie into any of the events outselling it? Come on...you have the nerve to say I'm unwilling but yet you are not looking at what is right front of you, the book has dropped in sales again.

Here's the problem. Answer this question: how much have the sales dropped? Until we can answer that, it's hard to discuss with any real level of discourse.

[philly]

Okay, speaking entirely hypothetically, lets say Secret Invasion sold 200K, Final Crisis sold 195K, Avengers/Invaders sold 125K, Invincible Iron Man sold 100K, etc. When you have a higher ceiling, it's possible for a book to sell the same amount from one month to the next, and still be further down in the sales charts.

Again, hypothetically speaking, with the likely bump in Batman sales (the book that's used to determine the index number) it's even possible for ASM to have sold MORE than it did last month, and still drop in the overall charts, if the books ahead of it are simply selling more.

The difference is, I'm talking about things that are possible, and admitting that's all they are, while you're talking about something as if it's a definite fact when there's no real way to confirm that yet.

Its a fact that the books are down from last month, that's a fact. If the actuals come in and even adds an extra 1000 to each title because of the bump in Batman sales, it still sold less than the month before, right or wrong? If it goes up the chart or not, the sales for the book has still decline from April, which continues the trend in the drop in sales.

[gary]

Its a fact that the books are down from last month, that's a fact.

It's a fact that their placement in the Sales Chart is down. It's currently impossible to tell if this is also the case with the sales

[Matt Linton]

Its a fact that the books are down from last month, that's a fact. If the actuals come in and even adds an extra 1000 to each title because of the bump in Batman sales, it still sold less than the month before, right or wrong? If it goes up the chart or not, the sales for the book has still decline from April, which continues the trend in the drop in sales.

It's not a fact. That's my point. Amazing Spider-Man could have the exact same index number it has, and the exact same chart position, whether it went up or down in sales. Why? Because the index chart is simply how the books sell in relation to each other, not how many actual comics were sold. It's an ESTIMATE based on ANOTHER ESTIMATE for how many issues Batman sold. If Batman sold a million copies, than a 72.5 for Amazing would be a hell of a lot more comics than if Batman sold 1000 copies.

Fact - We don't know how many copies Amazing sold in May.

Fact - We don't know how many copies Batman sold in May.

Without knowing one of those two numbers, we don't know if sales are up or down, and we don't know the degree.

[AbdulAziz]

To see John Romita jr. back to Amazing Spider-Man titles figures will hopefully rise.
I hate to miss a job done by John Romita jr.

[philly]

Here's the problem. Answer this question: how much have the sales dropped? Until we can answer that, it's hard to discuss with any real level of discourse.

But the book still dropped in sales, that's what is really the point, its not going up and its still losing readers (The venom storyline is where you will see a spike in sales) but so far, the book is still dropping month to month. Does anybody really think the actual sales will show that the book went up from April? I don't think so.

[drwho]

73000 three times a month is still more than what the other 3 were selling. Here is for hoping under 100000 for the month all together, :wink:

[Maestro]

Every title goes down in sales until another event or development comes along. The first issue is usually the peak

[Jake V]

But the book still dropped in sales, that's what is really the point, its not going up and its still losing readers (The venom storyline is where you will see a spike in sales) but so far, the book is still dropping month to month. Does anybody really think the actual sales will show that the book went up from April? I don't think so.

Saying that sales are dropping from month to month isn't really saying anything. Sales on every book drop from month to month unless they have something external (SI) propping them up or have a huge event (death of a character) giving them a spike that lasts for a few months.

What you're essentially saying is "Amazing Spider-Man is performing like every other comic book does" to which everyone else is saying "Yes, and?"

[StoneGold]

But the book still dropped in sales, that's what is really the point, its not going up and its still losing readers (The venom storyline is where you will see a spike in sales) but so far, the book is still dropping month to month. Does anybody really think the actual sales will show that the book went up from April? I don't think so.

Yeah, but if the book only bled 120 readers or whatever, it ain't that big a deal, is what I'm saying. Problem is, until we get actual numbers, it's all speculation.

I expect sales to dip between events. And right now, it's between events. Although I am kind of interested to see if the Double Spidey cover goes anywhere, despite it basically being Silver Age goofiness.

[drwho]

I'm disappointed with how many readers that claimed to not buy the thing are anyway. Really not a way to get what you want done. And no way will I believe most of the readers are new. Some of the OMd whiners sold out. Sheep for Joe to fleece.

[The Shadow]

Ouch. Can't say I'm surprised, as I dropped the book a month or so ago.

Though it's worth noting that the index is based on Batman's sales, and his RIP story just started, and a spike in Batman's sales would effect the index of all the other books.

Not an excuse, but it might be best to wait for the actual numbers to come out in a few days.

I hate the index number system. They should just hold off and wait.

[StoneGold]

I hate the index number system. They should just hold off and wait.

I'm sure they have some reason for existence in a sales capacity. They just don't do much good for us.

[ZT4]

To see John Romita jr. back to Amazing Spider-Man titles figures will hopefully rise.
I hate to miss a job done by John Romita jr.

Yeah, but John was illustrating crapola ten years ago and things didnt move dime one.

[The Shadow]

Some of the OMd whiners sold out. Sheep for Joe to fleece.
Or maybe they gave the books a chance, enjoyed them and then decided to keep reading them?

Is that maybe a possibly?

[drwho]

Or maybe they gave the books a chance, enjoyed them and then decided to keep reading them?

Is that maybe a possibly?

No not at all.

[The Shadow]

No not at all.

:rolleyes:

Oooookkkkaaaaay denial boy :wink:

[Will.S]

I'm disappointed with how many readers that claimed to not buy the thing are anyway. Really not a way to get what you want done. And no way will I believe most of the readers are new. Some of the OMd whiners sold out. Sheep for Joe to fleece.
I still haven't picked up any of the BND stuff. The HC looks tempting though.

I hate the index number system. They should just hold off and wait.
I don't know why they still use that thing either, one would think there would be a better way of judging sales at this point than comparing it to a Batman comic's sales.

[BlackToe]

Do we need another thread like this every month? This is just going to rehash where the other one fell off. Then when the Venom/ThunderBolts arc comes out, there's going to be a spike....there...I just predicted the next thread in the future. Who gives a crap?

[Maestro]

Do we need another thread like this every month? This is just going to rehash where the other one fell off. Then when the Venom/ThunderBolts arc comes out, there's going to be a spike....there...I just predicted the next thread in the future. Who gives a crap?

People are obsessed to find any reason, valid or not, to call BND a failure

[ZT4]

People are obsessed to find any reason, valid or not, to call BND a failure

The same with others obsessed with any reason, valid or not, to call BND a success:rolleyes:

[Will.S]

People are obsessed to find any reason, valid or not, to call BND a failure
Basically.

So far it looks to be a pretty successful relaunch sales wise regardless of how poorly I think it was handled in light of OMD. A dip in sales could mean trouble for the book's weekly status but again there's no hard data to really say that's the case.

[BlackToe]

People are obsessed to find any reason, valid or not, to call BND a failure

I cant believe how much time and energy is wasted on this. All of the arguments and all that crap, and for what? To boast and wave numbers that dont even have subscriptions, international, news stand etc in them?

[StoneGold]

I cant believe how much time and energy is wasted on this. All of the arguments and all that crap, and for what? To boast and wave numbers that dont even have subscriptions, international, news stand etc in them?

At the end of the day, it's a phallus-waving contest. "More people agree with me!" And that's on both sides.

[dcarner]

I cant believe how much time and energy is wasted on this. All of the arguments and all that crap, and for what? To boast and wave numbers that dont even have subscriptions, international, news stand etc in them?

Given how much cheaper it is to buy the book in subscription with the great deal marvel is given, and knowing you're gonna have to get the book three times a month to keep up with continuity, I would guess a lot of people would switch to subscription. Also a lot go the trade route. BlackToe is so right, I don't like BND, but these #s really mean nothing other than how many sales were at a comic book shop, that's it. It doesn't mean the book is a success or a faliure. It just means x amount of books were sold.

[dcarner]

At the end of the day, it's a phallus-waving contest. "More people agree with me!" And that's on both sides.

I could have gone all day without that one. :biggrin:

[Mako]

But the book still dropped in sales, that's what is really the point, its not going up...

You don't know that yet.
All you know from that chart is that the book dropped in rank.

Rank does NOT equal sales.

The chart you are looking at shows rank and the sales index. That is all.

This is also the month that BOTH Marvel and DC's big summer events and their crossovers come out. It was also the last month of one of Marvel's best selling X-titles, the end of Joss Whedon and John Cassidy's Astonishing X-Men. It also featured two issues of the much hyped Batman: R.I.P. It also featured the release of Invincible Iron Man #1 with 6 variant covers, while it was the #1 movie at the box office.

Many, many, many books moved down in rank.
That does not mean that they took a drop in sales.
For example, All-Star Superman is usually a top 10 book. In May it barely made it into the top 25. But if its fans still bought the same number of copies that wouldn't be reflected in its sales numbers, just its ranking when compared to bigger sellers.

[SkinFromBone]

I cant believe how much time and energy is wasted on this. All of the arguments and all that crap, and for what? To boast and wave numbers that dont even have subscriptions, international, news stand etc in them?

I'm sure some people know that these diamond chats aren't everything for sales month to month. To me, the release of monthly numbers is just a way for people to root for the book they like if it sells well, or complain when one they like doesn't give the numbers they expected. It gives people something to talk about, even if all real data isn't included. Fan stuff right?It does kind of show what people are buying at the stores though

I'm sorry to say ASM isn't something I kept up with before OMD and it looks like buyers just like the Avengers stuff more (like me). I don't see how ASM is supposed to keep up with the bigger Marvel books without some event going on when BND doesn't have writing/art that Avengers and x men books have. I do like Dan Slott though.

That said, anyone else surprised 560 sold less then 558? I thought it would bump sales up, but I guess not. 558 was a terrible issue except for Menace showing up. :confused: I wonder how well 561 sold.

[AC-WEB]

Do we need another thread like this every month? This is just going to rehash where the other one fell off. Then when the Venom/ThunderBolts arc comes out, there's going to be a spike....there...I just predicted the next thread in the future. Who gives a crap?

If you don't like the topic, there is no need to read it and much less to post, imo.

[mikekerr3]

There was a drop in sales and regardless again of the event books, that's not good.

Any drop in sales of ASM is good:biggrin: :biggrin:

Maybe they will fix what they broke if it drops enough.

[The Shadow]

That said, anyone else surprised 560 sold less then 558? I thought it would bump sales up, but I guess not. 558 was a terrible issue except for Menace showing up. :confused: I wonder how well 561 sold.

No because if you look at the actual monthly numbers the first issue from each month has outsold the second release and the third release of the month has always come in third.

[DarKye]

if (BND.support == true) {
exaggerate(denial);
predict(sales = sales++);
} else {
exaggerate(drop);
predict(sales = sales--);
}

// That's pretty much all there is about it. Every single month. //

[Dr. Chaos]

Well, thats abit disheartening.

I really love the thrice monthly issues but I'm starting to wonder if it could take it's toll on comic book fans (who are notoriously cheap like me :wink: ).

Although I am kind of interested to see if the Double Spidey cover goes anywhere, despite it basically being Silver Age goofiness.
I really hate it when they do stuff like that with the goofy captions and what have you.

Just let the art speak for itself.

[Shade 20x6]

In before the spin! :biggrin:

Oops, too late. :rolleyes:

With that said, I really am surprised sales dropped that much. I really thought they had started to level off, but it appears they haven't yet.

[Muscles Coleman]

What does it matter to comic readers how ASM sells? Is it that important to predict something so irrelevant to our lives just so we can say "I told you so!" when we're right?

I read BND whether or not it sells well or not. I enjoy the direction, as a matter of personal preference, not because I'm being "fleeced" by Joe Q. I wish some people on the internet could understand that.

Edit: Oh, and ban the "rolls eyes" emoticon. Nothing is more smug than that. Shoot me in the face if I ever need to use ASCII art to convey emotions.

[Will.S]

What does it matter to comic readers how ASM sells? Is it that important to predict something so irrelevant to our lives just so we can say "I told you so!" when we're right?

I read BND whether or not it sells well or not. I enjoy the direction, as a matter of personal preference, not because I'm being "fleeced" by Joe Q. I wish some people on the internet could understand that.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see how the title does either.

[Shade 20x6]

What does it matter to comic readers how ASM sells? Is it that important to predict something so irrelevant to our lives just so we can say "I told you so!" when we're right?

I read BND whether or not it sells well or not. I enjoy the direction, as a matter of personal preference, not because I'm being "fleeced" by Joe Q. I wish some people on the internet could understand that.

It's important because if sales fall far enough, maybe Marvel will reverse the terrible decision that is BND.

Btw, I told you so. :tongue:

[DarKye]

What does it matter to comic readers how ASM sells? Is it that important to predict something so irrelevant to our lives just so we can say "I told you so!" when we're right?

I read BND whether or not it sells well or not. I enjoy the direction, as a matter of personal preference, not because I'm being "fleeced" by Joe Q. I wish some people on the internet could understand that.

They don't care about your personal preference.
They care about their personal preference and whether there's a reason from a business' point of view to back it up.

[Mister Mets]

Some spin...

All three issues of ASM outsold the penultimate issue of Morrison/ Quitely's All-Star Superman, in addition to quite a few other notable titles, so Spider-Man's probably doing as expected.

Plus, the $50 subscription package is successful enough that Marvel's repeating the experiment with the X-titles.

[oldschool]

I realize that my request here is doomed to be ignored but can we just agree that the people who gleefully try to find bad news in supposed "research" just do not like BND and are trying to justify that feeling/hoping against hope that Marvel loses boatloads of money on a flagship title thereby reversing their decision and returning the title to what they prefer? No? Well, I tried.....

[Dr. Chaos]

Some spin...

All three issues of ASM outsold the penultimate issue of Morrison/ Quitely's All-Star Superman, in addition to quite a few other notable titles, so Spider-Man's probably doing as expected.

Plus, the $50 subscription package is successful enough that Marvel's repeating the experiment with the X-titles.
I forget when it's being released but I'm very interested to see how the TPBs do.

For as much venom that is passed around to OMD, the collected edition did surprisingly well for Marvel.

[JamesOliva]

I forget when it's being released but I'm very interested to see how the TPBs do.

For as much venom that is passed around to OMD, the collected edition did surprisingly well for Marvel.

Of course sales on the OMD trade would be great; sales of the OMD books were great, too. Trade number are like comic numbers, they're all pre-orders.

[DeadXMan]

Basically.

So far it looks to be a pretty successful relaunch sales wise regardless of how poorly I think it was handled in light of OMD. A dip in sales could mean trouble for the book's weekly status but again there's no hard data to really say that's the case.

not to mention how they process that data. Do they go by individual Sales, or average it on monthly, quarterly percentage, or in total orders made (which means in the month of May they sold roughly 220,000 of ASM in the direct market)

On a related note: when do they release subscription sales figures if at all?
and has the TPB figures came in yet?

[Cody H]

Wait for the numbers!!!

.....


Or don't.

[Muscles Coleman]

I'm as curious as the next guy which titles are selling well and which aren't, but some people get downright militant about it as if sales always equals quality and it validates some point they're trying to make. I'd prefer to talk about the comics I do read with others who read them, not discuss the merits of reading vs. boycotting. They're full of circular logic and feelings end up getting hurt, and I'm a big baby, and I just don't need that crap. ROLLS EYES.

[Dr. Chaos]

And on a sidenote, it's almost kind of funny to see Final Crisis at #2 after Morrison's comments earlier this year.

Thats one "ass kicking" quota that will go wanting.

[DeadXMan]

And on a sidenote, it's almost kind of funny to see Final Crisis at #2 after Morrison's comments earlier this year.

Thats one "ass kicking" quota that will go wanting.

what did he say?

[cpahl2000]

Awesome news! And Marvel´s EIC says everybody is loving it.

[mikekerr3]

What does it matter to comic readers how ASM sells? Is it that important to predict something so irrelevant to our lives just so we can say "I told you so!" when we're right?

I read BND whether or not it sells well or not. I enjoy the direction, as a matter of personal preference, not because I'm being "fleeced" by Joe Q. I wish some people on the internet could understand that.

Edit: Oh, and ban the "rolls eyes" emoticon. Nothing is more smug than that. Shoot me in the face if I ever need to use ASCII art to convey emotions.

Slowing sales give some of us hope that the BND garbage will be retconed. Every month there is a thread like this and we get a little more hopeful.

[Mister Mets]

And on a sidenote, it's almost kind of funny to see Final Crisis at #2 after Morrison's comments earlier this year.

Thats one "ass kicking" quota that will go wanting.
The first issue of DC's big event book finishing second (and not even that close) to the second issue of Marvel's big event book has to be an embarrassment.

[DeadXMan]

not from Marvel's point of veiw :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Muscles Coleman]

Slowing sales give some of us hope that the BND garbage will be retconed. Every month there is a thread like this and we get a little more hopeful.

If it does get retconned, I'll be along for that ride as well. Money permitting, I'll buy ASM because I'm a fan of the character and not a fairweather fan like some around these parts.

[Jim Thompson]

The first issue of DC's big event book finishing second (and not even that close) to the second issue of Marvel's big event book has to be an embarrassment.Why? Morrison's telling a far more intellectual story than Marvel is. Marvel's telling a typical action piece; DC's trying something that'll challenge the brain a bit. Is it surprising Marvel's approach is outselling DC's?

[Shade 20x6]

If it does get retconned, I'll be along for that ride as well. Money permitting, I'll buy ASM because I'm a fan of the character and not a fairweather fan like some around these parts.

You're completely off-base with your accusations of "fair weather fans."

Some of us simply want to see what's best for the character, and refuse to blindly support whatever garbage they shovel at us. "True fans" like that are doing more damage to the character than they'll ever know.

[cpahl2000]

Slowing sales give some of us hope that the BND garbage will be retconed. Every month there is a thread like this and we get a little more hopeful.


Indeed my friend. One day this whole OMD/BND will be retconed:wink:

[Shade 20x6]

Indeed my friend. One day this whole OMD/BND will be retconed:wink:

I'm not holding my breath, but every little bit helps.

[Mako]

Who here gets it?

The Diamond Chart has two basic pieces of information on it:
Ranking and sales index numbers.

It does not have the actual numbers of retailer orders.

It is possible for a book to go UP in rank and have less orders.
It is possible for a book to go DOWN in rank and have more orders.

Just because a book takes a LARGE drop in rank does NOT mean that it's taken a LARGE drop in orders.

This was the first month that BOTH Marvel and DC's SUMMER EVENT BOOKS were on the charts. These two mini-series AND their tie-ins will be the HIGHEST SELLING and HIGHEST RANKED books of the entire year. This month also saw two issues of the much hyped Batman: RIP event. There were also a number of #1 books that came out, including Invincible Iron Man #1 while the movie was #1 at the box office.

All of these books are going to push the rankings of EVERY OTHER book down.
That doesn't mean that those books are going to sell that much less for the drop in ranking. Because of these additions to the charts, THOR didn't place in the top ten, but it's a safe bet that it still sold its usual numbers. ALL-STAR SUPERMAN #11 barely made it into the top 25, but that is no reflection of how well it performed.

Who here doesn't get that?

Any drop in sales of ASM is good:biggrin: :biggrin:

Wait for the actual numbers. If there's a drop, it might not be that much. The percentage of the drop has been less and less each month. It appears to be leveling off.

I really am surprised sales dropped that much. I really thought they had started to level off, but it appears they haven't yet.

:rolleyes:

Wait for the numbers!!!

Okay, YOU get it. :wink:

[Muscles Coleman]

You're completely off-base with your accusations of "fair weather fans."

Some of us simply want to see what's best for the character, and refuse to blindly support whatever garbage they shovel at us. "True fans" like that are doing more damage to the character than they'll ever know.

If the overwhelming majority of fans agreed with one specific direction the character would take, that'd be one thing. But there's a slew of opinions out there, many like yours, many like mine, and one doesn't necessarily trump the other. There are several other ways of looking at the character. He's different things to different people, so please don't act like your views are superior. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect it. If you can't respect the fact that I take the "see-what-happens next" approach instead of mapping out in my head where I want him to go and then getting bitterly disappointed at the inevitable outcome, then what can I tell you, dude?

[mikekerr3]

If it does get retconned, I'll be along for that ride as well. Money permitting, I'll buy ASM because I'm a fan of the character and not a fairweather fan like some around these parts.

Read him for 43 years till they did this garbage, How is that fair weather?

They changed what I liked about him essentially killing off, what I liked about Peter Parker, the names the same but the character is much weaker

[Muscles Coleman]

Read him for 43 years till they did this garbage, How is that fair weather?

They changed what I liked about him essentially killing off, what I liked about Peter Parker, the names the same but the character is much weaker

Well perhaps my characterization was off. I'm sure there are a lot of loyal fans out there who are disgusted with this new direction. Hell, I dropped Spidey altogether right as the Clone Saga started (I was 11, though). You're not wrong, but I do disagree about Peter Parker being fundamentally different. JMS's Peter never jived with me, and I definitely like this direction better. Can I ask what you liked about him that's been killed off?

[cpahl2000]

I'm not holding my breath, but every little bit helps.


That´s true. One day this horrible thing will go away.:wink: :smile:

[Shade 20x6]

If the overwhelming majority of fans agreed with one specific direction the character would take, that'd be one thing. But there's a slew of opinions out there, many like yours, many like mine, and one doesn't necessarily trump the other. There are several other ways of looking at the character. He's different things to different people, so please don't act like your views are superior. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect it. If you can't respect the fact that I take the "see-what-happens next" approach instead of mapping out in my head where I want him to go and then getting bitterly disappointed at the inevitable outcome, then what can I tell you, dude?

There's no accounting for taste, but I know shoddy work when I see it.

[Muscles Coleman]

There's no accounting for taste, but I know shoddy work when I see it.

So what does that say about me, then? :wink: <----- shoot me

[Shade 20x6]

So what does that say about me, then? :wink: <----- shoot me

Sometimes, you just answer your own questions. :wink:

[Shade 20x6]

Btw, I misinterpreted the index numbers as sales numbers (they're getting pretty close, what with BND being in the 70K's now). Oops. :redface:

[Muscles Coleman]

Sometimes, you just answer your own questions. :wink:

Let's just agree to disagree.

[mikekerr3]

Well perhaps my characterization was off. I'm sure there are a lot of loyal fans out there who are disgusted with this new direction. Hell, I dropped Spidey altogether right as the Clone Saga started (I was 11, though). You're not wrong, but I do disagree about Peter Parker being fundamentally different. JMS's Peter never jived with me, and I definitely like this direction better. Can I ask what you liked about him that's been killed off?

Smart, made mistake but usally by not thinking things through, did not help evil and give evil more power.

This guy seems less like an experienced hero than he did in the late sixties to me.

They made him younger to the point where his 16 YO self would just slap him silly for poor judgement.

[Shade 20x6]

Let's just agree to disagree.

Sounds like a plan.

Ftr, I understand your stance, I just don't agree with it.

[DeadXMan]

That´s true. One day this horrible thing will go away.:wink: :smile:

like the marriage.

20 yrs it took, but thank Kirby it finally did.

[Mister Mets]

Why? Morrison's telling a far more intellectual story than Marvel is. Marvel's telling a typical action piece; DC's trying something that'll challenge the brain a bit. Is it surprising Marvel's approach is outselling DC's? Morrison's a bigger writer than Slott. Quitely's a bigger artist than Martin. All-Star Superman doesn't require fans to spend nine bucks an issue. And it's also one of the most acclaimed superhero comics being published right now.

So three issues of Spider-Man by Gale/ Kitson or Slott/ Martin each outselling All-Star Superman in the direct market is fairly impressive, especially considering how much more attractive Marvel's subscription deal for ASM than buying the thing at your lcs.

* Edit- Nevermind, I responded to an imaginary comment about All-Star Superman's sales relative to ASM.

[Matt Linton]

Why? Morrison's telling a far more intellectual story than Marvel is. Marvel's telling a typical action piece; DC's trying something that'll challenge the brain a bit. Is it surprising Marvel's approach is outselling DC's?

You're talking about quality, though, while Mets is talking about sales. Both Secret Invasion and Final Crisis are the big, tent pole, "summer event" books for their respective companies. From a sales perspective, it's definitely an embarrassment for the first issue of DC's much-hyped event to sell less than the second issue of Marvel's much-hyped event.

From a quality perspective I think you're wrong, too, but that's a bit more off-topic. :tongue:

[BlackToe]

If you don't like the topic, there is no need to read it and much less to post, imo.

So you want to boast and wave numbers without adding subscriptions, international, news stands, etc to the final, in faces of people who actually like this direction? Thats the only reason why these threads pop up every damn month. Imaginary stroke value.

And like I said, NWtD = inevitable spike. We already have the spike coming in front of us. Its here already. The next big "event". Will I post about their numbers? No. Because I dont care about the numbers, never have.

I still dont see the reason these arguments keep happening every month.

[ShaggyB]

Im just impressed that there is five pages of people saying spidey lost sales without the numbers to back it.

Its laughable really. We have all been in agreement that ranks are based on comparitive sales to BATMAN. WELL.......... What do you suppose happens when Batman is in an EVENT? Would batman's numbers not be inflated? RIP Batman is an event and its selling very well. Considering Batman may die. His parents may not have been what we have all thought they were. Alfred may be his dad. And Bruce may be the bats worst enemy. Hes in a GIANT EVENT. His sales will be up. Meaning the rankings wont mean squat in regards to sales numbers.

Batman in April at an index of 100 was at #20 now 103 index = #8??? Doesnt that throw up a flag when the former #20 is now #8 for the month?

Perhaps everyone should hold there opinions on months when the standard book for ranking is in an Event and has inflated sales. Would it really kill everyone to wait the 4 days or so for the numbers to land before they claim spidey has slipped?

[StoneGold]

Im just impressed that there is five pages of people saying spidey lost sales without the numbers to back it.


Technically there's seven, if you are set at default. Which oddly, I think actually helps your point.

[Muscles Coleman]

Wooo this is still going! Can we derail this thread finally?

[Dr. Chaos]

Wooo this is still going! Can we derail this thread finally?
Oh...this is far from over, my friend.

This sucker is going to go atleast twenty pages.

[Shade 20x6]

For the record, I find it pretty funny that those who have been touting rankings as the be-all-end-all are now changing course again and screaming "Wait for the numbers!" :rolleyes:

[Cyclopsj316]

Even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and JLA beat it. Regardless of the event books, that's still a bad drop.

Buffy beat it?

Dayum. That's all we need to know. :rolleyes:

[Muscles Coleman]

For the record, I find it pretty funny that those who have been touting rankings as the be-all-end-all are now changing course again and screaming "Wait for the numbers!" :rolleyes:
Numbers can't quantify my happiness with BND :smile:

[ShaggyB]

For the record, I find it pretty funny that those who have been touting rankings as the be-all-end-all are now changing course again and screaming "Wait for the numbers!" :rolleyes:

only time i tout rankings was when all of them were way down Shade, Specifically and i remember my quote, "If its sold under 90k and is still #4 for the month then its not doing that bad.... everything is down, not just ASM."

But you can think whatever you want, even if its a mis-quote of something i had said before :rolleyes:

[Shade 20x6]

only time i tout rankings was when all of them were way down Shade, Specifically and i remember my quote, "If its sold under 90k and is still #4 for the month then its not doing that bad.... everything is down, not just ASM."

But you can think whatever you want, even if its a mis-quote of something i had said before :rolleyes:

You're not the only one who has been screaming "All the books are still in the Top 10/20, so therefore it's a success!"

[Cyclopsj316]

Numbers can't quantify my happiness with BND :smile:

Lower numbers can help me cope with my unhappiness over BND. :evilsmile:

They continue to give me a larger shred of hope that this nightmare will finally be over sooner than the clone saga nightmare lasted...:rolleyes:

[ShaggyB]

Technically there's seven, if you are set at default. Which oddly, I think actually helps your point.

True. I do have a higher post to page set......

I just find it laughable for a thread to be calling the slip of ASM sales without actually having the figure to prove it.

Ironically its still Facts that seperate Fact from Fiction. This thread lacks the info it requires to support the claims it makes. Sadly, its probably due to the OP not wanting to look stupid by saying Spidey slips way down in ranks when compared to Batman. Clearly Batman RIP is labeled on the source and that indicates Event which means inflated numbers which means comparisons to Batman are off due to it selling more than normal.

I'll laugh so hard if spidey sells in the 75k and up range for the month. That would indicate leveling off not dropping and make this thread look even funnier.

[Cyclopsj316]

what's even funnier ?

Isn't BND supposed to be selling more, not; just as much as "normal"...??? or as some pro BND peeps would say, "leveling out" ???

where the hell are all these "new" generation readers that Joephisto said would come, when they sacrificed many of the long time "older" followers ??? :tongue:

yeah. I'm sure this is how well BND was supposed to do...:rolleyes:

[Shade 20x6]

what's even funnier ?

Isn't BND supposed to be selling more, not; just as much as "normal"...??? or as some pro BND peeps would say, "leveling out" ???

where the hell are all these "new" generation readers that Joephisto said would come, when they sacrificed many of the long time "older" followers ??? :tongue:

yeah. I'm sure this is how well BND was supposed to do...:rolleyes:

There will always be some sort of spin as the bar of expectation continues to lower.

[ShaggyB]

You're not the only one who has been screaming "All the books are still in the Top 10/20, so therefore it's a success!"

double edged sword i suppose. Yet if spidey sells 85k and is ranked #4 that means only three did better and therefore regardless of the numbers it sold better than all but three books. However if spidey Sells 85k and is ranked #50 then it doesnt loose customers it just means more books sold better. Thats the issue with rankings vs numbers.

Rankings can mean everything or nothing at all. Its all relative to the numbers. Without the numbers rankings mean nothing. With them it can say something or it can say nothing.

I think the claim "May Spidey sales ( Yes, it dropping again)" is laughable because the sales numbers are not avaliable to support it. Had it read "May Spidey Sales (Yes it dropped in rank again)" it would be much closer to what can be argued here. The topic creator didnt do that because its a stupid argument without the numbers.

remember in April Batman was like this

Rank: #20
Index:100
Name: BATMAN #675
Sold: 71,138

So either you believe that all those books after #8 Batman 676 at a index of 103 sold less than 71k or you are willing to believe that batman at an index of 103 sold well over 71k and thus explains the 12 ranking jump yet similar index value.

Just curious, does anyone really think RIP batman issue #1 and #2 didnt break the 80 to 90k mark?

Eitherway, this thread is nothing without the numbers. There is no proof of a sales drop and no one can show it till those numbers are posted. You say its funny to hear people say wait for numbers but i ask you, how can you do more than speculate that the numbers are lower based on the information at hand?

[The Shadow]

Of course sales on the OMD trade would be great; sales of the OMD books were great, too. Trade number are like comic numbers, they're all pre-orders.

Although, unlike the regular issues, trade numbers can remain consistent as they have a much longer shelf life because they can continually be reordered and reprinted.

[Matt Linton]

Buffy beat it?

Dayum. That's all we need to know. :rolleyes:

Buffy's been one of the best-selling comics in the entire industry since the new series started.

[Shade 20x6]

Buffy's been one of the best-selling comics in the entire industry since the new series started.

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.

[BlackToe]

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.

Why not? Its fanbase is huge, the demographic is largely female and the show was extremely popular enough to warrant another highly successful spin-off. Logically, the comic version should do just as well, if its well written.

[Matt Linton]

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.

Speaking generally, it's inevitable that someday Spider-Man will be overshadowed, just as overtime Spider-Man overshadowed Superman, and Superman overshadowed the pulp heroes.

[Matt Linton]

Why not? Its fanbase is huge, the demographic is largely female and the show was extremely popular enough to warrant another highly successful spin-off. Logically, the comic version should do just as well, if its well written.

Not to mention it's being written by the creator and best writer of the character, Joss Whedon, and it's written as "Season Eight" rather than the general untold tales approach the previous series took.

[StoneGold]

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.

And that's a separate problem for the comics industry, an inability to accept anything slightly out of the norm of buying patterns.

[Shade 20x6]

Why not? Its fanbase is huge, the demographic is largely female and the show was extremely popular enough to warrant another highly successful spin-off. Logically, the comic version should do just as well, if its well written.

By that logic, a new Buffy film would outsell any of the three Spider-Man films.

Buffy may have a large fanbase, but it's nowhere near on par with Spider-Man's fanbase in terms of quantity. And Buffy's target demographic being primarily female is actually a detriment when it comes to comics sales.

[StoneGold]

Why not? Its fanbase is huge, the demographic is largely female and the show was extremely popular enough to warrant another highly successful spin-off. Logically, the comic version should do just as well, if its well written.

Yeah, but icky, who let girls into the clubhouse?

[ReggieWhiteJr]

I'm not sure what the bigger shocker is, the decline in rank or that the Gale issue sold he most.

[mikekerr3]

By that logic, a new Buffy film would outsell any of the three Spider-Man films.

Buffy may have a large fanbase, but it's nowhere near on par with Spider-Man's fanbase in terms of quantity. And Buffy's target demographic being primarily female is actually a detriment when it comes to comics sales.

A Buffy film with the budget of a Spidey film might do very well, The fan base is bigger than any comic book has and not all female.

It would be a great date movie a chick flick with ass-kicking.:biggrin:

[Matt Linton]

I would be more excited about a big budget Buffy film than a Spider-Man 4. And I loved all three Spider-Man movies.

[Dr. Chaos]

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.
Considering how many people watched the show (and these numbers are less than 30% of that) are you really surprised that it's managed to do this well with the way they've presented it?

It's a comic designed specifically for fans to have a continued story of Whedon's buffyverse, they've gone so far as to even dub it the eight season, I know a ton of people that have no interest in comics outside of it that are picking this up like crazy for that very reason.

Buffy is just a whole nother area of pop culture that characters like Spider-Man will have a surprisingly hard time keeping up with in their own original medium.

[Matt Linton]

Considering how many people watched the show (and these numbers are less than 30% of that) are you really surprised that it's managed to do this well with the way they've presented it?

It's a comic designed specifically for fans to have a continued story of Whedon's buffyverse, they've gone so far as to even dub it the eight season, I know a ton of people that have no interest in comics outside of it that are picking this up like crazy.

Buffy is just a whole nother area of pop culture that characters like Spider-Man will have a surprisingly hard time keeping up with in their own original medium.

Exactly. Same thing with The Dark Tower. It's targeted at King's readers, and even though only a fraction of them are buying it, it's enough to push the series to the top of the charts every month.

[mikekerr3]

Exactly. Same thing with The Dark Tower. It's targeted at King's readers, and even though only a fraction of them are buying it, it's enough to push the series to the top of the charts every month.

We comics reader forget that our world is tiny compared to the Fan base of even an old TV show like Buffy. A meida powerhouse like King call sell in any medium. The Comic book world is a tiny subset of publishing and Publishing is not king.

The only name in comics that has a real large fan base in the rst of the world now is Wedon. and he is not all that big a player in TV.

[ShaggyB]

Buffy: The Vampire Slayer should never overshadow Spider-Man.

Because Spider-man will always be fresh and entertaining to everyone right?

Look, im a big spider-man fan but even I have grown tierd of him from time to time. Marvel as a company has to look to the future. Yes Spidey is a flag ship title but all of Marvels chips do not rely on ASM to preform. (not even Superman or Batman do that)

Is it suprising that Buffy beats ASM.... Well to me... I wouldnt have thought it would happen, considering i didnt thing that many Buffy fans would grace the LCS to pick it up, but ive been wrong before. Is it shocking that something is more popular that ASM?? Not really, Its happened before.... It was bound to happen again.

I think alot of this board forgets that ASM had such great sales because pete was at the heart of several big events.... dating back to House of M.... hes been in every one. Along with this he's had several other things happen such as the Other, New Avenger, Back in Black, Spider-man 3 Movie, and One More Day.... All these things have put spidey on a sales rollercoaster.


Buffy out selling ASM in a non event is no big deal. (BND isnt an event, NEw Ways To Die could be considered a mini event. BND according to Cup-o-joe week 12 is only being left on the top of the issues so retailers can steer people to the jump on point. To me it sounds like marvel is past the Event stage for BND and into the its business as usual stage.)

[Prof. Warren]

To say Buffy outsold Spider-Man isn't quite accurate. Yes, one issue of Buffy ranked slightly higher than three Spider-Man issues but collectively, ASM's numbers are higher. When comparing sales, many people are forgetting or ignoring the fact that there's three Spidey issues each month on the charts and that it's their total sales that matter. To point to the rankings alone doesn't address the fact that even when it's below other titles, more Spidey books are still being sold.

[Shade 20x6]

To say Buffy outsold Spider-Man isn't quite accurate. Yes, one issue of Buffy ranked slightly higher than three Spider-Man issues but collectively, ASM's numbers are higher. When comparing sales, many people are forgetting or ignoring the fact that there's three Spidey issues each month on the charts and that it's their total sales that matter. To point to the rankings alone doesn't address the fact that even when it's below other titles, more Spidey books are still being sold.

But that doesn't necessarily equate to more readers. Just the same readers buying three books a month.

[Hertz]

Getting in kinda late to this party but, let me see if I have a few things straight.

1. ASM didn't get higher than 20th in sales last month.
2. We don't have estimates yet so we really can't compare it to previous months.
3. The last Gale book outsold both Slott books.

[Cyclopsj316]

wow. did my buffy comment start all that ? :evilsmile:

anyways, buffy did have a movie... and the spidey films did way better than that buffy movie..... but i will give it this -

Kristy Swanson was better looking than Kirsten Dunst !!!

[BlackToe]

By that logic, a new Buffy film would outsell any of the three Spider-Man films.

Buffy may have a large fanbase, but it's nowhere near on par with Spider-Man's fanbase in terms of quantity. And Buffy's target demographic being primarily female is actually a detriment when it comes to comics sales.

How would it outsell any of the Spider-man films, (the 3rd being a world box office record holder)? I'm talking demographic success wise.

If Whedon decides to make a movie, I can bet alot of fans are going to see that movie and alot of actor fans will as well. Hell...look at the original. Its still a huge cult classic.

[The Shadow]

And Buffy's target demographic being primarily female is actually a detriment when it comes to comics sales.

And yet it outsold Spidey... maybe it's not so detrimental after all. :wink:

[The Shadow]

I would be more excited about a big budget Buffy film than a Spider-Man 4. And I loved all three Spider-Man movies.

Same!

I've met Giles (Anthony Head) and Xander (Nick Brendan) at cons too! Very nice fellows. Sadly this year I am unable to get to Toronto where Charisma Carpenter is appearing *sigh* :cool:

[The Shadow]

Kristy Swanson was better looking than Kirsten Dunst !!!

AMEN!

See, we CAN get along now and again!!

[ShaggyB]

wow. did my buffy comment start all that ? :evilsmile:

anyways, buffy did have a movie... and the spidey films did way better than that buffy movie..... but i will give it this -

Kristy Swanson was better looking than Kirsten Dunst !!!

im not a huge buffy fan but wasnt the tv show / comic set in a slightly different version of the buffy-verse?

The old movie was more of a comedy fighting movie than the tv show was.....

Also wasnt it out in the early 90s?

[Matt Linton]

The original Buffy movie came out first, and it didn't match Whedon's idea for the character much at all. He did the TV show somewhat in response, and it's that version that became popular.

Comparing the first Buffy film to the Spider-Man movies is like comparing the 70s Spider-Man tv movies to the newer films.

[Jim Thompson]

Comparing the first Buffy film to the Spider-Man movies is like comparing the 70s Spider-Man tv movies to the newer films.The 70s Spider-Man television show versus the current movies -- I suddenly understand why they went with organic webshooters! :biggrin:

[ShaggyB]

The 70s Spider-Man television show versus the current movies -- I suddenly understand why they went with organic webshooters! :biggrin:

Off topic but does anyone remember that japanese power rangers ish show with the giant skyscraper sized Spider-man?

[Shade 20x6]

And yet it outsold Spidey... maybe it's not so detrimental after all. :wink:

Or, it's a testament to how unpopular Spidey is becoming...

[ShaggyB]

Or, it's a testament to how unpopular Spidey is becoming...

i dont know, people around the world know three heroes...

Superman, Batman and Spider-man.

[Jim Thompson]

i dont know, people around the world know three heroes...

Superman, Batman and Spider-man.They may all be well known -- but I don't think any of their comic books are doing particularly well these days. Spidey's probably the best seller of the group, and that books numbers are falling.

[ShaggyB]

They may all be well known -- but I don't think any of their comic books are doing particularly well these days. Spidey's probably the best seller of the group, and that books numbers are falling.

batman's seem to be up this month... but i follow you.

Likewise superman first came out in the 30s and he doesnt sell that well monthly now..... Doesnt mean they wont print him anyway. Seems even with low sales the characters remain popular enough to warrant keeping them around.

[The Shadow]

Or, it's a testament to how unpopular Spidey is becoming...

LMAO :biggrin:

The box office grosses say different.

In North America (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/) the movie boxes office takes rank at #7, 10 and 15 all time.

And worldwide (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/)they rank #12, 17 and 23 in all time grosses.

I don't think Spidey's popularity is in question :wink:

[Mister Mets]

LMAO :biggrin:

The box office grosses say different.

In North America (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/) the movie boxes office takes rank at #7, 10 and 15 all time.

And worldwide (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/)they rank #12, 17 and 23 in all time grosses.

I don't think Spidey's popularity is in question :wink:

It's a trap!

This doesn't help your argument.

[Mister Mets]

For the record, I find it pretty funny that those who have been touting rankings as the be-all-end-all are now changing course again and screaming "Wait for the numbers!" :rolleyes:Ultimately most of the guys citing sales figures as going down significantly are making the argument that Amazing Spider-Man would be selling better if only it weren't for OMD.

In that case, you have to prove that Spider-Man's declining sales are unusual, relative to the rest of the industry. If for example, sales of most titles increased, while Amazing Spider-Man sales were steady/ slowly declining, Amazing Spider-Man would have a significant problem.

This month, the rankings are lower than they might otherwise be due to
- Secret Invasion, and three tie-ins by the writer of the Event.
- Batman: RIP (two issues)
- Debut of Final Crisis
- The debut of a new Iron Man title to coincide with the movie.
- Debut of a new Avengers mini series, at a time when the Avengers has become Marvel's hottest franchise.
- The final issue of Whedon/ Cassady's Astonishing X-Men.

A book coming out three times a month is going to have different rules in determining sales figures, but ASM still seems to be doing well. It's outselling All-Star Superman, Green Lantern, Millar/ Hitch's Fantastic Four, Wolverine, Loeb's King Sized Hulk special, Ultimate Spider-Man, the debut of 1985, the conclusion of Donner/ Johns/ Kubert's Action Comics arc and plenty of other titles. I suspect that next month it's going to outsell X-Men: Legacy too.

[The Shadow]

It's a trap!

This doesn't help your argument.

... I thought it did............ :confused:

[ShaggyB]

Ultimately most of the guys citing sales figures as going down significantly are making the argument that Amazing Spider-Man would be selling better if only it weren't for OMD.

In that case, you have to prove that Spider-Man's declining sales are unusual, relative to the rest of the industry. If for example, sales of most titles increased, while Amazing Spider-Man sales were steady/ slowly declining, Amazing Spider-Man would have a significant problem.

This month, the rankings are lower than they might otherwise be due to
- Secret Invasion, and three tie-ins by the writer of the Event.
- Batman: RIP (two issues)
- Debut of Final Crisis
- The debut of a new Iron Man title to coincide with the movie.
- Debut of a new Avengers mini series, at a time when the Avengers has become Marvel's hottest franchise.
- The final issue of Whedon/ Cassady's Astonishing X-Men.

A book coming out three times a month is going to have different rules in determining sales figures, but ASM still seems to be doing well. It's outselling All-Star Superman, Green Lantern, Millar/ Hitch's Fantastic Four, Wolverine, Loeb's King Sized Hulk special, Ultimate Spider-Man, the debut of 1985, the conclusion of Donner/ Johns/ Kubert's Action Comics arc and plenty of other titles. I suspect that next month it's going to outsell X-Men: Legacy too.

Along those lines i always have a chuckle when Icv2 even has reported on the downward slope in general on comic sales.

Here are the titles and such of the last three months of numbers


April 2008 (Actual):
"Top 300 Comics Actual -- April 2008"
"Top 100 Graphic Novels -- April 2008"
Over-view/Analysis: "'Secret Invasion' Launches at 250k"
Analysis/dollar trends: "Comic Sales Slip in April"

March 2008 (Actual):
"Top 300 Comics Actual -- March 2008"
"Top 100 Graphic Novels -- March 2008"
Over-view/Analysis: "'Dark Tower' Tops March Comics"
Analysis/dollar trends: "Comics Slip in Q1"

February 2008 (Actual):
"Top 300 Comics Actual -- February 2008"
"Top 100 Graphic Novels -- February 2008"
Over-view/Analysis: "Top Comic Weakness"
Analysis/dollar trends: "Comic and Graphic Novel Sales Dip in February"


Seems they have been acknowledging a slide in all books for three months of figures thats all Dated May 20th (which is the last time they added Actual Numbers of books sold (That would Be Aprils numbers btw) )

How can someone champion the slip of one book with numbers from an organization that recognizes the downward slope of all comics for the times in question?

[Jim Thompson]

... I thought it did............ :confused:Not when the original point was a character could be very well known, but still not have it's comic book sales reflect that. :tongue:

[Tetsuo_man]

Off topic but does anyone remember that japanese power rangers ish show with the giant skyscraper sized Spider-man?

That was awsome and even stan said it was a better interpertation of spidey than the american live action seventies series.

[The Shadow]

Not when the original point was a character could be very well known, but still not have it's comic book sales reflect that. :tongue:

... sometimes these forums get confusing with multiple threads and conversations. I don't even remember what my point was now. :redface:

[AC-WEB]

A book coming out three times a month is going to have different rules in determining sales figures, but ASM still seems to be doing well. It's outselling All-Star Superman, Green Lantern, Millar/ Hitch's Fantastic Four, Wolverine, Loeb's King Sized Hulk special, Ultimate Spider-Man, the debut of 1985, the conclusion of Donner/ Johns/ Kubert's Action Comics arc and plenty of other titles. I suspect that next month it's going to outsell X-Men: Legacy too.

This is where we disagree. I hold Amazing Spider-Man to high standard and considered it, like many others, flagship of Marvel comics. You show that Amazing is doing well because it is beating out said books. I say they should mop the floor with the likes of Green Lantern and the FF. Amazing should also be outselling Captain America, a first issue Iron Man, Buffy, and a final Whedon X-Men book. No matter what events come out, Amazing should not be under the top 15 books ever, and especially the top 20, no matter that the book is out thrice a month. I dont care how Joe Q and his crew try to spin this, I think this is evidence that this OMD/BND experiment is failing. I think Marvel needs Peter and MJ to get back together and tell stories that don't make a mockery of continuity, IMO, If that happens ,then the numbers should go back to where they should be.

AC

[Nick MB]

batman's seem to be up this month... but i follow you.


Batman's up in the May charts because it's the first issue of the heavily promoted "Batman RIP" storyline.

[ShaggyB]

Batman's up in the May charts because it's the first issue of the heavily promoted "Batman RIP" storyline.

yeah i know was just pointing out that batman is up when the topic was that characters with name cred have low sales due to lack in popularity but still have name recognition.

[Matt Linton]

This is where we disagree. I hold Amazing Spider-Man to high standard and considered it, like many others, flagship of Marvel comics. You show that Amazing is doing well because it is beating out said books. I say they should mop the floor with the likes of Green Lantern and the FF. Amazing should also be outselling Captain America, a first issue Iron Man, Buffy, and a final Whedon X-Men book. No matter what events come out, Amazing should not be under the top 15 books ever, and especially the top 20, no matter that the book is out thrice a month. I dont care how Joe Q and his crew try to spin this, I think this is evidence that this OMD/BND experiment is failing. I think Marvel needs Peter and MJ to get back together and tell stories that don't make a mockery of continuity, IMO, If that happens ,then the numbers should go back to where they should be.

AC

It's the first issue of Iron Man in a month when the hugely successful Iron Man film opened (and the first issue had three covers, including a photo cover from the film).

It's easy enough to say "ASM should outsell X no matter what, and because it isn't BND has failed", but it's also pretty easy to find examples where that's not the case.

May of 2006, the month Civil War started and Infinite Crisis ended, Amazing Spider-Man ranked #14, getting outsold by those two books, as well as Wolverine Origins, Supergirl, Superman/Batman (twice), 52 (four times), and All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder.

June of 2006, with a Civil War tie-in issue, Amazing Spider-Man still got outsold by DCU Brave New World, Wonder Woman, Flash, Astonishing X-Men, Civil War Frontline, and Wolverine Origins.

And that's just looking at Amazing Spider-Man. Factor in the books that outsold Friendly Neighborhood and Marvel Knights/Sensational in a given month, and the rankings are even better for the current Amazing.

[lazlo_toth]

Based on chart postion, those are very bad. It depends on what the actual sales are, though, since this was a month that saw Secret Invasion #2, Final Crisis #1, Avengers/Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men, Batman RIP (two issues), three Avengers Secret Invasion tie-ins, and King's Dark Tower, all "big" books.

Yeah, the chart position is bad, but three issues at 70k plus should still be better than the three separate pre-OMD titles, though, which is kinda what Marvel was banking on in the first place. The number of "big" books shouldn't matter all that much for a core character like Spider-Man, though. Spidey is one of those characters like Superman or Batman who have a large corps of fans who pick it up every month because that's their guy. With me, it's Superman and the LSH; no matter how many super-hyped titles are coming out in a given week, I simply do not miss Superman and the LSH (until DC reboots Superman and makes HIM single, too, in which case, screw it, I'll probably give up comics altogether and spend my money on something less frustrating, like heroin). If significant amounts of fans are skipping over your "flagship" title to buy this week's generic kill-all-mutants crossover tie-ins, it's probably not your flagship title or character after all. At least, that's the way I see it...

[Dr. Chaos]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16836

This seems to paint abit of a rosier picture, numbers closer to what I was expecting.

[StoneGold]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16836

This seems to paint abit of a rosier picture, numbers closer to what I was expecting.

Let the phallus swinging resume?

[Dr. Chaos]

Let the phallus swinging resume?
*shudders*

I'd rather keep mine in my pants, thank you..

[Matt Linton]

From the link:

Amazing Spider Man 558 85,050
Amazing Spider Man 559 82,000
Amazing Spider Man 560 81,786

Compare to CBR estimates from April 2008:

Amazing Spider Man 555 86,880
Amazing Spider Man 556 78,438
Amazing Spider Man 557 77,037

I'd call that "leveling off".

[ShaggyB]

lol i hope thats right

20. Amazing Spider Man #558 Estimated sales = 85,050
21. Amazing Spider Man #559 Estimated sales = 82,000
23. Amazing Spider Man #560 Estimated sales = 81,786

ouch that means its on an upward turn with all three books doing better than book 2 and 3 of last month but still a bit below book 1 from last month.....

Awaiting the actuals.

[gorthon616]

*shudders*

I'd rather keep mine in my pants, thank you..

You're no fun.

[AC-WEB]

While in 2006, Amazing did slide, it did not slide to the level Amazing is sliding now.

In regards to F'n Spidey, and MK Spidey, this is where we have a difference of opinion in that I see Amazing as Amazing even if it comes out three times a month. You see three times Amazing as a continuing of the other Spider-Man books.

My other question to everybody is how much does Amazing have to slip in order to say that OMD/BND impacted it negatively?



May of 2006, the month Civil War started and Infinite Crisis ended, Amazing Spider-Man ranked #14, getting outsold by those two books, as well as Wolverine Origins, Supergirl, Superman/Batman (twice), 52 (four times), and All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder.

June of 2006, with a Civil War tie-in issue, Amazing Spider-Man still got outsold by DCU Brave New World, Wonder Woman, Flash, Astonishing X-Men, Civil War Frontline, and Wolverine Origins.

And that's just looking at Amazing Spider-Man. Factor in the books that outsold Friendly Neighborhood and Marvel Knights/Sensational in a given month, and the rankings are even better for the current Amazing.

[ShaggyB]

Ive updated the chart i always post to reflect these new estimates. Actuals are coming but it seems spidey has turned around or leveled in the 80k's your call....


Here lets look at the numbers Apr02-Present

May08: ASM #560 BND = 81,786...#23 for the month (Estimate)
May08: ASM #559 BND = 82,000...#21 for the month (Estimate)
May08: ASM #558 BND = 85,050...#20 for the month (Estimate)
Apr08: ASM #557 BND = 77,057...#16 for the month
Apr08: ASM #556 BND = 78,458...#14 for the month
Apr08: ASM #555 BND = 86,902...#08 for the month
Mar08: ASM #554 BND = 81,072...#14 for the month
Mar08: ASM #553 BND = 82,648...#08 for the month
Mar08: ASM #552 BND = 89,835...#04 for the month
Feb08: ASM #551 BND = 88,084...#13 for the month
Feb08: ASM #550 BND = 90,874...#09 for the month
Feb08: ASM #549 BND = 101,112...#03 for the month
Jan08: ASM #548 BND = 97,959...#10 for the month
Jan08: ASM #547 BND = 101,213...#09 for the month
Jan08: ASM #546 BND = 127,958...#02 for the month
Dec07: ASM #545 OMD = 124,481...#02 for the month
Nov07: None
Oct07: None
Sep07: ASM #544 OMD = 146,215...#02 for the month
Aug07: ASM #543 BIB = 106,485...#07 for the month
Jul07: ASM #542 BIB = 105,715...#10 for the month
Jun07: ASM #541 BIB = 108,284...#08 for the month
May07: ASM #540 BIB = 119,662...#07 for the month
Apr07: No issue, only reprint of BIB issue
Mar07: ASM #539 BIB = 137,730...#03 for the month
Feb07: ASM #538 CW = 142,956...#03 for the month
Jan07: ASM #537 CW = 114,802...#04 for the month
Dec06: reprint of 4th CW issue
Nov06: ASM #536 CW = 118,833...#04 for the month
Oct06: reprint of 3rd CW issue
Sep06: ASM #535 CW = 117,056...#04 for the month
Aug06: reprint of 2nd CW issue Unmasking
Jul06: ASM #534 CW = 113,522...#06 for the month
Jun06: ASM #533 CW = 112,982...#10 for the month
May06: ASM #532 = 95,544...#14 for the month
Apr06: ASM #531 = 86,884...#08 for the month
Mar06: ASM #530 = 89,874...#07 for the month
Feb06: ASM #529 = 90,414...#06 for the month
Jan06: ASM #528 = 95,415...#04 for the month
Dec05: ASM #527 = 79,261...#10 for the month
Nov05: ASM #526 = 79,674...#12 for the month
Oct05: ASM #525 = 79,520...#09 for the month
Sep05: ASM #524 = 71,065...#25 for the month
Aug05: ASM #523 = 72,046...#21 for the month
Jul05: ASM #522 = 73,130...#21 for the month
Jun05: ASM #521 = 74,117...#19 for the month
May05: ASM #520 = 76,143...#14 for the month
Apr05: ASM #519 = 78,535...#14 for the month
Mar05: ASM #518 = 77,025...#22 for the month
Feb05: ASM #517 = 78,584...#15 for the month
Jan05: ASM #516 = 79,842...#09 for the month
Dec04: ASM #515 = 82,840...#12 for the month
Nov04: ASM #514 = 87,121...#15 for the month
Oct04: ASM #513 = 89,615...#11 for the month
Sep04: ASM #512 = 87,236...#14 for the month
Aug04: ASM #511 = 88,118...#13 for the month
Jul04: ASM #510 = 84,750...#11 for the month
Jun04: ASM #509 = 88,289...#13 for the month
Jun04: ASM #508 = 82,268...#16 for the month
May04: ASM #507 = 81,944...#12 for the month
Apr04: ASM #506 = 83,152...#15 for the month
Mar04: ASM #505 = 83,613...#11 for the month
Feb04: ASM #504 = 84,064...#11 for the month
Jan04: ASM #503 = 87,341...#12 for the month
Dec03: ASM #502 = 90,484...#12 for the month
Nov03: ASM #501 = 94,558...#09 for the month
Oct03: ASM #500 = 148,928...#02 for the month
Sep03: ASM #499 (58) = 92,294...#12 for the month
Aug03: ASM #498 (57) = 93,469...#09 for the month
Aug03: ASM #497 (56) = 92,277...#10 for the month
Jul03: ASM #496 (55) = 95,467...#08 for the month
Jul03: ASM #495 (54) = 95,173...#09 for the month
Jun03: Nothing
May03: ASM #494 (53) = 95,777...#07 for the month
Apr03: ASM #493 (52) = 96,624...#04 for the month
Mar03: ASM #492 (51) = 96,428...#05 for the month
Feb03: ASM #491 (50) = 100,439...#04 for the month
Jan03: ASM #490 (49) = 90,032...#06 for the month
Dec02: ASM #489 (48) = 93,867...#07 for the month
Nov02: ASM #488 (47) = 95,883...#05 for the month
Oct02: ASM #487 (46) = 98,001...#05 for the month
Sep02: ASM #486 (45) = 98,817...#04 for the month
Aug02: ASM #485 (44) = 100,070...#06 for the month
Jul02: ASM #484 (43) = 98,980...#07 for the month
Jun02: ASM #483 (42) = 96,537...#06 for the month
May02: ASM #482 (41) = 97,947...#04 for the month
Apr02: ASM #481 (40) = 99,273...#04 for the month


kinda makes the title of this thread funny considering Spidey sales are up in may. lol

[JCurwen]

Ive updated the chart i always post to reflect these new estimates. Actuals are coming but it seems spidey has turned around or leveled in the 80k's your call....



kinda makes the title of this thread funny considering Spidey sales are up in may. lol

Yup, says something about jumping to conclusions, doesn't it?

[Matt Linton]

While in 2006, Amazing did slide, it did not slide to the level Amazing is sliding now.

In regards to F'n Spidey, and MK Spidey, this is where we have a difference of opinion in that I see Amazing as Amazing even if it comes out three times a month. You see three times Amazing as a continuing of the other Spider-Man books.

My other question to everybody is how much does Amazing have to slip in order to say that OMD/BND impacted it negatively?

I agree, it depends on how you look at BND. I've always looked at it as three Spidey books (Amazing 3X a month) vs three Spidey books (ASM/FNSM/SSM), but I know others feel as you do.

As for what I'd consider a negative impact, it's always been the thrice-monthly books selling less per month on average than the three Spidey books sold per month on average, or somewhere in the low 70K range, basically. BND is still above that, and it looks like the floor might be in the very high 70s, with bumps in sales from there (New Ways to Die will likely be much higher, for example).

That's assuming the sales estimates for this month are accurate.

[Matt Linton]

Going back to the rankings for a second, it's worth noting that every book in the top 10 sold over 100K copies, while every book in the top 15 sold over 90K. That's the reason for the low ranking.

[DeadXMan]

I think the SI, it's tie ins and GS AXM hurt it's postition

240,000 units sold is not bad for one month.

[lazlo_toth]

This is where we disagree. I hold Amazing Spider-Man to high standard and considered it, like many others, flagship of Marvel comics. You show that Amazing is doing well because it is beating out said books. I say they should mop the floor with the likes of Green Lantern and the FF. Amazing should also be outselling Captain America, a first issue Iron Man, Buffy, and a final Whedon X-Men book. No matter what events come out, Amazing should not be under the top 15 books ever, and especially the top 20, no matter that the book is out thrice a month. I dont care how Joe Q and his crew try to spin this, I think this is evidence that this OMD/BND experiment is failing. I think Marvel needs Peter and MJ to get back together and tell stories that don't make a mockery of continuity, IMO, If that happens ,then the numbers should go back to where they should be.

AC


Now I'm a big proponent of bringing back the marriage just as you seem to be (although I admit to liking the 3x schedule), but there's one thing in your argument I take objection to, namely the notion the Spider-Man, simply because he is Spider-Man, objectively must sell more copies than, say, Fantastic Four. Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character, but there is a difference between being a valuable property and a valuable publishing venture. One of the reasons Wonder Woman is considered part of DC's holy trinity is because over the years she has proven to be a revenue-generator based on her recognizability to the general public even though her title has rarely been a top-seller. The Avengers have been at or near the top of the lists for a few years now, but that's not going to last forever. When that point comes, and the X-books take those spots (or even, dare I say it, a DC title; what if the huge Green Lantern storyline planned for '09 or the revamped Superman titles suddenly catch fire? Stranger things have happened...), is somebody going to be saying that there's something wrong with the Avengers because they're not where they "should" be on the charts?

Superman has rarely cracked the top ten outside of huge events like Death of Superman, but there really is no doubt in anybody's mind that he's the flagship character for DC, or that he's still the most recognizable superhero on the planet. When you say the word "superhero" to somebody, probably 90% of the time Superman is the first image that pops into their heads. Wolverine probably sells four times as many comics each month, but I guarantee you that there are tens of millions more people all over the world who know who Superman is, even with the extra exposure Wolvie's gotten through the X-Men films. I would venture to say that Spider-Man is in that category as well, i.e. there are millions of people out there who immediately recognize Spider-Man and who could conceivably buy some product with his name or image on it without ever setting foot into a comic shop or even buying a comic book, and who wouldn't recognize Green Lantern or Wolverine or even the FF if their lives depended on it.


In a lot of ways, the actual chart performance of the comics are almost irrelevant, once the character reaches that "icon" status. I certainly think that because of OMD/BND, Amazing Spider-Man has lost readers (even though it might be making more money in the short term), but at this point, while I'd like to think that it's the moronic way in which it reboots continuity that drove those readers off, it could be the fact that it comes out 3 times a month that caused it. I don't know, but at this point neither do you. Or anyone else, for that matter. Spider-Man is an iconic character who should always be popular, but to say that his title should always be in the top 15 no matter what is a stretch. There are quite a few other characters with their own legitimate claims to "icon" status, and there's way too many books that get hyped to death, and comic fans have way too little patience and attention spans to be that consistently loyal to anything for that long.

Bottom line is, I like seeing ASM dropping on the charts every month because I want JQ to get some egg on his face, but even if it were to drop out of the top 50, it would have no bearing on Spider-Man's status as Marvel's flagship character. Perhaps it should, but the reality is that Spider-Man would still sell more T-shirts and DVDs and rake in more cash than most of the characters whose books outsold his. I don't think it would be close.

[TalesMN]

There's reason to frown over this report, I believe - the numbers in the 'previous issue estimated sales column' just don't match April's report. Some examples:

Secret Invasion previous issue (#1) estimated sales: 267,697
Secret Invasion #1 actual estimated sales: 250,200

New Avengers previous issue (#40) estimated sales: 116,123
New Avengers #40 actual estimated sales: 110,442

Justice League of America previous issue (#20) estimated sales: 90,197
Justice League of America #20 actual estimated sales: 85,785

Buffy the Vampire Slayer previous issue (#13) estimated sales: 87,857
Buffy the Vampire Slayer #13 actual estimated sales: 83,559

[StoneGold]

Now I'm a big proponent of bringing back the marriage just as you seem to be (although I admit to liking the 3x schedule), but there's one thing in your argument I take objection to, namely the notion the Spider-Man, simply because he is Spider-Man, objectively must sell more copies than, say, Fantastic Four. Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character, but there is a difference between being a valuable property and a valuable publishing venture. One of the reasons Wonder Woman is considered part of DC's holy trinity is because over the years she has proven to be a revenue-generator based on her recognizability to the general public even though her title has rarely been a top-seller. The Avengers have been at or near the top of the lists for a few years now, but that's not going to last forever. When that point comes, and the X-books take those spots (or even, dare I say it, a DC title; what if the huge Green Lantern storyline planned for '09 or the revamped Superman titles suddenly catch fire? Stranger things have happened...), is somebody going to be saying that there's something wrong with the Avengers because they're not where they "should" be on the charts? Superman has rarely cracked the top ten outside of huge events like Death of Superman, but there really is no doubt in anybody's mind that he's the flagship character for DC, or that he's still the most recognizable superhero on the planet. When you say the word "superhero" to somebody, probably 90% of the time Superman is the first image that pops into their heads. Wolverine probably sells four times as many comics each month, but I guarantee you that there are tens of millions more people all over the world who know who Superman is, even with the extra exposure Wolvie's gotten through the X-Men films. I would venture to say that Spider-Man is in that category as well, i.e. there are millions of people out there who immediately recognize Spider-Man and who could conceivably buy some product with his name or image on it without ever setting foot into a comic shop or even buying a comic book, and who wouldn't recognize Green Lantern or Wolverine or even the FF if their lives depended on it. In a lot of ways, the actual chart performance of the comics are almost irrelevant; once the character reaches that "icon" status. Yes, I think that because of OMD/BND, Amazing Spider-Man has lost readers (even though it might be making more money in the short term), but at this point, while I'd like to think that it's the moronic way in which it reboots continuity that drove those readers off, it could be the fact that it comes out 3 times a month that caused it. I don't know, but at this point neither do you. Or anyone else, for that matter. Spider-Man is an iconic character who should always be popular, but to say that his title should always be in the top 15 no matter what is a stretch. There are quite a few other characters with their own legitimate claims to "icon" status, and there's way too many books that get hyped to death, and comic fans have way too little patience and attention spans to be that consistently loyal to anything for that long. Bottom line is, I like seeing ASM dropping on the charts every month because I want JQ to get some egg on his face, but even if it were to drop out of the top 50, it would have no bearing on Spider-Man's status as Marvel's flagship character. Perhaps it should, but the reality is that Spider-Man would still sell more T-shirts and DVDs and rake in more cash than most of the characters whose books outsold his. I don't think it would be close.

Ack! Paragraphs!

[ShaggyB]

Yup, says something about jumping to conclusions, doesn't it?

Well in that line of thought i should edit to say are estimated to be higher in May than in April. Either way based on those estimates a case can be made for spidey leveling off at the uper 70k's and turning around.... Still a bit early to tell yet but hey... Thread creator jumped too soon with the title.

[ShaggyB]

There's reason to frown over this report, I believe - the numbers in the 'previous issue estimated sales column' just don't match April's report. Some examples:

Secret Invasion previous issue (#1) estimated sales: 267,697
Secret Invasion #1 actual estimated sales: 250,200

New Avengers previous issue (#40) estimated sales: 116,123
New Avengers #40 actual estimated sales: 110,442

Justice League of America previous issue (#20) estimated sales: 90,197
Justice League of America #20 actual estimated sales: 85,785

Buffy the Vampire Slayer previous issue (#13) estimated sales: 87,857
Buffy the Vampire Slayer #13 actual estimated sales: 83,559

very true estimates can be high or low. Awaiting actuals, Probably friday before those land

[philly]

Well in that line of thought i should edit to say are estimated to be higher in May than in April. Either way based on those estimates a case can be made for spidey leveling off at the uper 70k's and turning around.... Still a bit early to tell yet but hey... Thread creator jumped too soon with the title.

True, if I'm wrong, then i will admit i was wrong and i apologize for jumping the gun:tongue: But what if it turns out that i was right?:eek:

[ShaggyB]

True, if I'm wrong, then i will admit i was wrong and i apologize for jumping the gun:tongue: But what if it turns out that i was right?:eek:

Then i will humbly admit you were right but still request that you wait for actuals next time before you state something has shifted. (that being said if its a small slip, ill just call you lucky and still claim for a leveling off based on pattern. lol)

Eitherway Im hopen to see a leveling off in the actuals. (I believe the esitmates to be a bit high and therefore im expecting them to be near what last month was.)

Side note. Issue #1 was the freak issue and it out sold the two paperdoll issues, which were much better comics..... Id say thats proof that the first issue will always sell more than the 2 others do. (not counting if a Event or a mini-event starts mid month. I think NWTD is starting the second issue of august. It should be good in sales)

[philly]

Then i will humbly admit you were right but still request that you wait for actuals next time before you state something has shifted.

Eitherway Im hopen to see a leveling off in the actuals. (I believe the esitmates to be a bit high and therefore im expecting them to be near what last month was.)

Side note. Issue #1 was the freak issue and it out sold the two paperdoll issues, which were much better comics..... Id say thats proof that the first issue will always sell more than the 2 others do. (not counting if a Event or a mini-event starts mid month. I think NWTD is starting the second issue of august. It should be good in sales)

Fair enough:tongue:

[lazlo_toth]

Ack! Paragraphs!

Oops, my bad. I went back and edited a bit, hope it's actually comprehensible now...:redface:

[ShaggyB]

Fair enough:tongue:

done and done.

[Jake V]

There's reason to frown over this report, I believe - the numbers in the 'previous issue estimated sales column' just don't match April's report. Some examples:

Secret Invasion previous issue (#1) estimated sales: 267,697
Secret Invasion #1 actual estimated sales: 250,200

New Avengers previous issue (#40) estimated sales: 116,123
New Avengers #40 actual estimated sales: 110,442

Justice League of America previous issue (#20) estimated sales: 90,197
Justice League of America #20 actual estimated sales: 85,785

Buffy the Vampire Slayer previous issue (#13) estimated sales: 87,857
Buffy the Vampire Slayer #13 actual estimated sales: 83,559

Aprils numbers in the current chart could have been altered to reflect any additions that may's reorders and second printings would have given.

[Jim Thompson]

From the link:

Amazing Spider Man 558 85,050
Amazing Spider Man 559 82,000
Amazing Spider Man 560 81,786

Compare to CBR estimates from April 2008:

Amazing Spider Man 555 86,880
Amazing Spider Man 556 78,438
Amazing Spider Man 557 77,037

I'd call that "leveling off".Good thing they made all these sweeping changes. Well worth the effort so they could "level off". :rolleyes:

[Mako]

Good thing they made all these sweeping changes. Well worth the effort so they could "level off". :rolleyes:

Or, in the case of FNSM and SSM numbers, leveling UP. :wink:

[Jim Thompson]

Or, in the case of FNSM and SSM numbers, leveling UP. :wink:Maybe -- but the only real way to know if that would have been true or not would be if the same creative team told one story through ASM, FNSM and SSM. Then we would have had an accurate (or at least closer) basis for comparison. :eek:

[Jake V]

Maybe -- but the only real way to know if that would have been true or not would be if the same creative team told one story through ASM, FNSM and SSM. Then we would have had an accurate (or at least closer) basis for comparison. :eek:

"the other" did something close to this, but finding the numbers and comparing them is a bit much for my iPhone to handle, so I leave finding them up to someone with a real computer.

[Jim Thompson]

"the other" did something close to this, but finding the numbers and comparing them is a bit much for my iPhone to handle, so I leave finding them up to someone with a real computer.The other had a continuing story, but not with the same creative team throughout. Kraven's Last Hunt is more along the lines of what I'm thinking.

[Jake V]

The other had a continuing story, but not with the same creative team throughout. Kraven's Last Hunt is more along the lines of what I'm thinking.

If I'm remembering it right, each month of the other had the same writer on all 3 books, though they all had different artists.

[Jim Thompson]

If I'm remembering it right, each month of the other had the same writer on all 3 books, though they all had different artists.You might be right -- I don't remember, but regardless that's still not keeping the creative team constant.

[StoneGold]

Oops, my bad. I went back and edited a bit, hope it's actually comprehensible now...:redface: