Back-peddling in the DCU

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Fanboys love to complain. It's what we do best. However, fanboys complaints are usually ignored unless sales take a nose dive. Lately, this seems to be changing. DC seems to be second-guessing decisions they've made in the past and correcting them. Here's a few examples:

The Kara Zor-El Supergirl is reintroduced with a radically different origin in which she was sent to Earth by her wacko father in order to murder Kal-El. Then some nonsense is added in about crystals inside her body and Phantom Zone whatzits. Fanboys proceed to bitch about her endlessly, calling her everything from anorexic to (shudder) Paris Hilton in a cape.

Fast forward a couple years, Kara Zor-El is now, more or less, the same character she was originally, minus the psycho dad and the crystal thingies coming out of her back.

Spoiler is murdered by Leslie Thompkins and Batman doesn't even set up a shrine for her in the Batcave. Fanboys throw a massive hissy-fit the likes of which the internet hasn't seen for at least five minutes.

Fast forward a couple years and, guess what, both Spoiler and Leslie Thompkins are back to normal, in the sense that one isn't dead and the other didn't murder her.

Max Lord is revealed to be a villain in Countdown to Infinite Crisis. His past history as a cyborg and pretty decent, though morally dubious, guy were ignored in favor of recasting him as out and out bastard who hated metahumans.

Fast forward a couple years and Geoff Johns ditches this and explains that Max's transformation into a cyborg and subsequent years of painful surgeries to reverse this and become human again was what warped him into the uber-douche who shot Blue Beetle in the head.

[Ghost Shark]

Pandering to the fans.

Fan pandering.

Fandering.


There. I made a new word. :tongue:

[DonC]

This isn't new. And in a few years I'd wager you'll be adding "DC killed the New Gods and introduced the Fifth World.

Fast forward a few years and it was all a plot by Darkseid. The Fourth World never died."

[Dard]

I have also noticed this recent trend.
And I am really torn here.
Normally, back-peddling is a sign of bad writing. The reason for the back-peddling may be an even worse story, but undoing doesn't make it any better.
So I usually say that the writers should deal with bad writings of the past, not ignore oder undoing it.

However...

In the last years, so much damage was done to the DC-Universe because of bad writing decisions that building it back up would simply take too long. So there are some plots where I think it can actually be positive, if handled well.

Particularly the deconstruction of the Batman family was a disaster. It wasn't only Thompkins and Spoiler. Nightwing was also supposed to die and we all know what happened to Batgirl.
I realize that reducing the Batman supporting cast to just him and maybe Robin was editorially mandated. IMO it certainly made no sense at all since if you take away the supporting cast from Batman, you have nothing left. Batman alone just isn't interesting enough to pull his weight for a long time. But an editorial mandate doesn't excuse how bad for example Batgirl's fall from grace was written. In this one case, when a really bad story happend because of the editor, I think in this case undoing it should be taken into consideration.

[Kevinroc]

A lot of these are the result of many stupid decisions DC has done over the last few years. Sure, there have been some good comics but the Spoiler story was definitely not one of them.

I'm waiting for Bart Allen to come back and rejoin the Teen Titans so that book will at least become "readable" again.

[Fatguy]

Fanboys throw a massive hissy-fit the likes of which the internet hasn't seen for at least five minutes.

LOL I love this quote.

However, I don't really get your point...are you UNHAPPY with the back peddling or just making an observation?

Personally, I tend to hate take-backs. Though, DC has made some of the worst story decisions I have ever seen over the last several years, and I'm willing to make exceptions with their current cries of "Backsies" :wink:

[echopryme]

"Mulligans are for people that don't have the skill to play through."

... Arnold Palmer

[Timberoo]

Fanboys love to complain. It's what we do best. However, fanboys complaints are usually ignored unless sales take a nose dive. Lately, this seems to be changing. DC seems to be second-guessing decisions they've made in the past and correcting them. Here's a few examples:

The Kara Zor-El Supergirl is reintroduced with a radically different origin in which she was sent to Earth by her wacko father in order to murder Kal-El. Then some nonsense is added in about crystals inside her body and Phantom Zone whatzits. Fanboys proceed to bitch about her endlessly, calling her everything from anorexic to (shudder) Paris Hilton in a cape.

Fast forward a couple years, Kara Zor-El is now, more or less, the same character she was originally, minus the psycho dad and the crystal thingies coming out of her back.

Spoiler is murdered by Leslie Thompkins and Batman doesn't even set up a shrine for her in the Batcave. Fanboys throw a massive hissy-fit the likes of which the internet hasn't seen for at least five minutes.

Fast forward a couple years and, guess what, both Spoiler and Leslie Thompkins are back to normal, in the sense that one isn't dead and the other didn't murder her.

Max Lord is revealed to be a villain in Countdown to Infinite Crisis. His past history as a cyborg and pretty decent, though morally dubious, guy were ignored in favor of recasting him as out and out bastard who hated metahumans.

Fast forward a couple years and Geoff Johns ditches this and explains that Max's transformation into a cyborg and subsequent years of painful surgeries to reverse this and become human again was what warped him into the uber-douche who shot Blue Beetle in the head.

About the only radical change I've seen that hasn't been 'fixed' is Barbara Gordon.

[JCAll]

About the only radical change I've seen that hasn't been 'fixed' is Barbara Gordon.

Which is strange, because that would be the easiest one to fix without Captain Retcon swooping in and Editorial Mandating the changes away.

[Ilash]

Fanboys love to complain. It's what we do best. However, fanboys complaints are usually ignored unless sales take a nose dive. Lately, this seems to be changing. DC seems to be second-guessing decisions they've made in the past and correcting them. Here's a few examples:

The Kara Zor-El Supergirl is reintroduced with a radically different origin in which she was sent to Earth by her wacko father in order to murder Kal-El. Then some nonsense is added in about crystals inside her body and Phantom Zone whatzits. Fanboys proceed to bitch about her endlessly, calling her everything from anorexic to (shudder) Paris Hilton in a cape.

Fast forward a couple years, Kara Zor-El is now, more or less, the same character she was originally, minus the psycho dad and the crystal thingies coming out of her back.

This is certainly not a bad thing. I don't read Supergirl but the character was horribly portrayed right from the get go so I'm not going to complain about them trying to fix her.

Spoiler is murdered by Leslie Thompkins and Batman doesn't even set up a shrine for her in the Batcave. Fanboys throw a massive hissy-fit the likes of which the internet hasn't seen for at least five minutes.

Fast forward a couple years and, guess what, both Spoiler and Leslie Thompkins are back to normal, in the sense that one isn't dead and the other didn't murder her.

This as well: I didn't read this story because it really did sound awful beyond words so this is a VERY welcome retcon in my books.

Max Lord is revealed to be a villain in Countdown to Infinite Crisis. His past history as a cyborg and pretty decent, though morally dubious, guy were ignored in favor of recasting him as out and out bastard who hated metahumans.

Fast forward a couple years and Geoff Johns ditches this and explains that Max's transformation into a cyborg and subsequent years of painful surgeries to reverse this and become human again was what warped him into the uber-douche who shot Blue Beetle in the head.

Oh really? I haven't read this weeks Booster Gold yet (should be getting it tomorrow) but if this is the case then it does make the whole thing better. It's still stupid and lazy and boring but this new explanation does make it just that bit more palpable to me.

[Schornforce]

I'm waiting for Bart Allen to come back and rejoin the Teen Titans so that book will at least become "readable" again.

And I'm waiting for Bart Allen to become Impulse so that he will at least become interesting again.






As for the Maxwell Lord thing, I don't think the Havok (or whoever) and its possession of Max Lord 'warped' him. But it was a catalyst and opened his eyes, giving him motivation to put the destiny of mankind back into humanity's hands-- relinquishing control from the crazed killer cyborgs, the supervillains, and, yes, the Justice League and their ilk. That's what I got out of the Booster Gold thing, anyhow.

[Ilash]

And I'm waiting for Bart Allen to become Impulse so that he will at least become interesting again.


Amen to that!

Otherwise he might as well stay dead, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh yeah and he should bring back Max Mercury with him.

[Suzanne]

Not to say it hasn't happened before, but was there ever a time when DC made consistantly good editorial decisions?

[Schornforce]

Amen to that!

Otherwise he might as well stay dead, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh yeah and he should bring back Max Mercury with him.

YES! Thank you. Max was awesome. I loved the whole dynamic of Impulse's title.

It still peeves me to no end that Johns had Bart claim Ravager was his 'first love' and that any subsequent Bart appearances totally seemed to disown ANYTHING having to do with Manchester (other than Max) and Young Justice.

I may love some of Geoff Johns' work, but will never forgive the transformation of Impulse into some bland little know-it-all who was drastically aged into an even blander Flash to be shoehorned into the DCU's crisis du jour.

[Schornforce]

Not to say it hasn't happened before, but was there ever a time when DC made consistantly good editorial decisions?

IIRC, after the first "Crisis" when the new books were relaunched, I believe the majority of the new titles were well-received and picked up new readers as it was an accessible 'jumping on' point.

I could be mistaken there, however.

[Hush Little Batman]

I think you can add the recent "Catwoman has a baby" development into this as well. For her OYL "surprise", DC thought it'd be a good idea to make Catwoman into a mommy, but this plotline was dropped and the kid has been shuffled off into the infamous "forgotten-ville" of comicdom, along with Peter & MJ's baby and Superman's Veggie phase.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

DC should basically forgot the plot where Kendra reclaimed her soul and then decided to sleep with Roy once she saw his kid. It was handled in such a lackluster turd way and thus far Hawkgirl has really suffered for it. So heres hoping they at DC wake up and forget the plot.


PLEASE DWAYNE MCDUFFIE ...PLEASE FORGET THIS PLOT...:tongue:

[Bored at 3:00AM]

LOL I love this quote.

However, I don't really get your point...are you UNHAPPY with the back peddling or just making an observation?

Personally, I tend to hate take-backs. Though, DC has made some of the worst story decisions I have ever seen over the last several years, and I'm willing to make exceptions with their current cries of "Backsies" :wink:

I'm a bit uneasy with it and how often it seems to be happening now.

However, as a Hal Jordan fan that watched DC Editorial stubbornly stick to their guns for nearly a decade before back-peddling, I can't really complain too much.

Sometimes, a bad decision deserves to acknowledged and reversed.

[Fatguy]

I'm a bit uneasy with it and how often it seems to be happening now.

However, as a Hal Jordan fan that watched DC Editorial stubbornly stick to their guns for nearly a decade before back-peddling, I can't really complain too much.

Sometimes, a bad decision deserves to acknowledged and reversed.

Yeah, agreed on all points.

[Jolly Mon]

I think you can add the recent "Catwoman has a baby" development into this as well. For her OYL "surprise", DC thought it'd be a good idea to make Catwoman into a mommy, but this plotline was dropped and the kid has been shuffled off into the infamous "forgotten-ville" of comicdom, along with Peter & MJ's baby and Superman's Veggie phase.

"Superman's Veggie phase"? Superman was a vegetable? Or a vegetarian?

[Hush Little Batman]

"Superman's Veggie phase"? Superman was a vegetable? Or a vegetarian?

The latter.

[Jolly Mon]

The latter.

Why in the world would someone who has heat vision and can broil his own steak just by looking at it become a vegetarian? When did this happen?

[Mon-el]

When did this happen?

Birthright

[jv2k]

I've noticed the fan pandering too. While a lot of it is good, it can also be pretty bad. An example would be what happened to Bart. Bart as flash was starting to become good under Guggenheim and of course because everyone was whining that Wally was gone DC killed off Bart. Honestly Guggenheim could have been Bart's Loebs or Waid but DC had to pander to the fans and give us our currently mediocre flash book.

If we had the internet in the 80s Barry Allen would still be flash and Wally would have been killed off. I mean if you think Bart's first arc was bad you should read the first few issues of Wally's run.

[PatrickG]

In all three cases, I'd argue it's because the original ideas didn't make much sense -- not only to FANS but to CREATORS.

For Spoiler to come back, all it ever took was someone saying, "I have spoiler stories to tell."

For Supergirl to get streamlined, all it ever took was creators saying, "I want to write Supergirl but I just want the basic concept. This other stuff gets in my way."

As for Max? I think of that as a love letter to the fans but it's the kind of thing Geoff does anyway.

In all three cases, the ideas came from creators. It may have helped sell those ideas if a creator could legitimately say, "I think the fans will like this. Just take a look online or ask them at cons."

But I don't think you could really say the ideas came from fans directly because somebody had to pitch them.

HOWEVER... Allow me to be a bit cynical for a moment.

The more the Big Two focus on names and the less they focus on the ideas, the Big Names will get burnt out and will start looking to the fans for suggestions/ideas.

The best way to avoid pandering is a more ego-less system with more part time writers, more fans turned pro, more writers drawn from every source imaginable and less marketing of the creators.

I think the big two are at a point where they would rather have Doon Koontz, who isn't a super-hero reader of any variety, go to a con and various message boards trolling for ideas so they can publish a Dean Koontz Justice League than they are interested in finding people who have good Justice League stories to tell, people who may be fans or may be midlist writers or may be obscure lit professors in boise.

The cult of celebrity demands people writing books past the burnout point and would rather have a celebrity writer without a story than a story without a celebrity writer.

This isn't like the 60s/70s where Maggin and Bates could write Superman because no one else wanted to and you had 14 year olds getting jobs because they had a neat vision or a snappy rapport with an editor in the lettercols.

And even more cynically, I'll chalk a part of it up to creator rights.

Creators demanded fairer pay, the market crashed and employers realized that they could get celebrity talent to essentially work for the new scale rather than hire unknowns.