The Retcon of OMD ( a Poll)

[DeadXMan]

Say by some miracle your attempts to get rid of BND somehow works

but there is a catch. MJ dies as the payment to Mephisto, and is placed in the same boat as Gwen (never to return)

Would you take it?

[bentleyml]

At that point I would just stop reading Amazing Spider-Man.

[ZT4]

Say by some miracle your attempts to get rid of BND somehow works

More like a fact of the buisness.

Since the real ASM cast are absent anyway, yep, anything is better than this superficial corporate nonsense.

[DeadXMan]

The Cast of Friendly went to ASM with some new faces and the return of a beloved friend.

I'll take that over it being Pete, MJ, May and Skrullvis for a quicky

[drwho]

Not again.!!! On another note I am still not reading spider-man thank you

[Choppa]

Sure why not...they can introduce a new love interest

[ZT4]

Sure why not...they can introduce a new love interest

Hahahaha

Yeah right. MJ would be back in two years as usual

[mikekerr3]

MJ's death would last less time than BND looks to last so I would be all for it. Unless the sales don't flatten out soon then BND won't even last that long.

[Mister Mets]

I've always maintained that a retcon was the best solution, and that killing Mary Jane would be a bad bad idea for various reasons, so my choice is easy.

[HeckBoy]

Assuming that "MJ is dead" clause is honored, I would not support a retcon. I mean, despite Gwen having come and gone way before I even started reading comics, I still feel that was a horrible loss (not to mention the fact that she just about reappears in every alternate reality as Peter's soulmate). And if Peter was to lose MJ too? well that is pretty harsh. I mean, after that, I don't think I'd be able to picture Spidey as a "carefree" bantering hero anymore. Gwen was bad enough, but I'd honestly think MJ's death would "realistically" cause Spidey to go over the edge and/or quit for good.

[ZT4]

Spider-Man: Reign covered this issue already...he doesnt stop for long, he becomes Spidey again in MJ's memory.

[Winter Bolt]

Descendant warrior goddess, future host to the Final Phoenix Factor, and and eliptical portion of the cycle that is a cornerstone to the 616. She is essentially immortal, and she is the one true Jackpot.

Sure, they could kill her, but the fridge hasn't been built yet that can contain her. She is the female Gaston of the MU.

[The Shadow]

I've always maintained that a retcon was the best solution, and that killing Mary Jane would be a bad bad idea for various reasons, so my choice is easy.

What he said.

[drpblunt]

At that point I would just stop reading Amazing Spider-Man.

I already have, after OMD, pity too cause i really luke spidey, and they ruined hin

[Jim Thompson]

This poll needs a third option, as it's a fool's question as it is written. It's an either or question to a problem that likely has multiple acceptable solutions.

I choose 'other'. :biggrin:

[Mister Mets]

Assuming that "MJ is dead" clause is honored, I would not support a retcon. I mean, despite Gwen having come and gone way before I even started reading comics, I still feel that was a horrible loss (not to mention the fact that she just about reappears in every alternate reality as Peter's soulmate). And if Peter was to lose MJ too? well that is pretty harsh. I mean, after that, I don't think I'd be able to picture Spidey as a "carefree" bantering hero anymore. Gwen was bad enough, but I'd honestly think MJ's death would "realistically" cause Spidey to go over the edge and/or quit for good.I agree. If you consider all the losses in his life, one more would pretty much make the everyman Peter Parker only identifiable to survivors of genocides.

Plus, if the two most important women in his life die because of his hobby, he's going to be looked down upon by readers for readers for ever having a social life with ordinary people, given the risk to them. Instead, he'd pretty much have to limit all interactions with people who have powers/ the talents to deal with them. This would eliminate one of the core aspects of the character's appeal.

[Mister Mets]

This poll needs a third option, as it's a fool's question as it is written. It's an either or question to a problem that likely has multiple acceptable solutions.

I choose 'other'. :biggrin: I think the point is to ask if a stetcon is worth killing off Mary Jane. You could undo the retcon without killing Mary Jane, but that's the subject for another poll.


Spider-Man: Reign covered this issue already...he doesnt stop for long, he becomes Spidey again in MJ's memory.I thought he stopped for decades in that story.

[Jim Thompson]

I think the point is to ask if a stetcon is worth killing off Mary Jane. You could undo the retcon without killing Mary Jane, but that's the subject for another poll.Yeah, I know -- but I'm not a fan of all or nothing questions. "You're either with us or against us" never seems to work out well for folks long-term.

[rZi]

I love Mary Jane.

But i would sooner have her die than undo CW/Harry returns from the dead etc

[Mister Mets]

Yeah, I know -- but I'm not a fan of all or nothing questions. "You're either with us or against us" never seems to work out well for folks long-term. This is more a "what's the lesser of two evils?" question.

[Jim Thompson]

This is more a "what's the lesser of two evils?" question.See previous answer. Still not a fan of that sort of question. Sort of indicates a defeatist attitude, to me.

[philly]

I don't like the poll. To me, it gives validation to Joe Q's sad scapegoating that Mary Jane was a problem for the Spider man books and she had to be dealt with other than make him take the responsibility for what really went wrong in the first place which was the bad editorial decisions behind the scenes.

[DeadXMan]

Just seeing how much the anti-crowd is willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals.

[Tobias Drake]

As much as I like BND, I hate MJ more.

[Jim Thompson]

As much as I like BND, I hate MJ more.Really? How come?

[ZT4]

The MJ haterade is mainly superificial. Marvel's efforts for the past ten years have to been to sabotauge her character (they've sabotauged everyone elses, but nobody mentions that), so any "reasons" are usually the result of the company's own character assasination and some fans swallowing it hook, line, and sinker

She represents change in a good way, she's become a role model for females young and old, and is the best friend, soul mate, and anchor of Spider-Man. To hate her is to hate progress in Spider-Man, and as a result, the character and spirit of Spider-Man as a whole.

[Mister Mets]

The MJ haterade is mainly superificial. Marvel's efforts for the past ten years have to been to sabotauge her character (they've sabotauged everyone elses, but nobody mentions that), so any "reasons" are usually the result of character assasination.

She represents change, and upbeat change to a guy that ISNT a "lovable loser", but a survivor
Considering that Peter Parker was married from the late 80s to 2007, how does Mary Jane represent change?

[Joe Acro]

I'm not seeing why we'd have to be limited to killing MJ otherwise. I know I've got a way out that stops that.

But I wouldn't take it. Though, in the scheme of things, she's essentially dead anyway.

[Rev. Calibos]

I think I want to change my vote, lol.

I voted for a dead MJ but after reading through the thread I found that I had changed my mind.

Someone brought up an excellent point stating that if he loses MJ thanks to his Spider-Hi-Jinks that's just going to add ANOTHER loved one to that mass of dead bodies that have been stacking up over the years.

The most creative, sensible thing for them to have done would have been for Peter and MJ to divorce. MJ, knowing that Peter would NEVER give up being Spiderman accepts and understands that if she were to remain married to him she would always be a target. She would accept and understand that by being the wife of Spiderman she would never be the most important thing in Peter's life.

Peter would accept and understand that because he loves MJ more than anything else in the world he would love her enough to let her go. He would understand and accept that the responsiblility he takes to use his powers to help others will always take precedence over his own happiness.

Ideally, Spiderman becomes Comicdom's highest profile divorcee and moves on to the next phase of his life allowing MJ, the woman he loves most in the world, the chance to live her life without the constant threat of kidnapping/cloning/being shot into space in some sort of rocket/etc.


Or he could just cut a deal with Satan. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, lol.

So yeah, in keeping with the theme of the poll I'd rather have OMD/BND than see Marvel kill off MJ. Ideally, I'd rather have seen a divorce than see Marvel use what essentially is the 21st century version of 'Why, it was all just a dream.....' cop out.

[Jim Thompson]

Considering that Peter Parker was married from the late 80s to 2007, how does Mary Jane represent change?LOL! Yes, very good point. Probably more accurate to say MJ, at best, represents the possibility of change.

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

I'm not seeing why we'd have to be limited to killing MJ otherwise. I know I've got a way out that stops that.

But I wouldn't take it. Though, in the scheme of things, she's essentially dead anyway.

Yeah, MJ's essentially dead as is Peter IMO. The only one who's still in character, when seen, is Aunt frikking May!:mad:

[HeckBoy]

Considering that Peter Parker was married from the late 80s to 2007Gosh, to me, sometimes days gone by feel just like yesterday, but when you put things in numbers it really drives home the point. I mean, Peter+MJ were married for like 20 years (real-time anyway)! and in the course of a badly thought out plot device, they've suddenly become separated. Yeesh, that little realization just adds on to my disapproval of OMD.

[Jim Thompson]

Their being married 20 years certainly goes a fair ways to disproving the notion a married Spider-Man is somehow a limiting, unworkable concept, doesn't it?

[Mister Mets]

Their being married 20 years certainly goes a fair ways to disproving the notion a married Spider-Man is somehow a limiting, unworkable concept, doesn't it?The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.

Note, I'm not claiming that Millar's Spider-Man run, Dematteis's Spectacular Spider-Man or Micheline/ Mcfarlane's Amazing Spider-Man don't count as great material. But if that's all you have in a twenty year period, there's a problem.

[Jim Thompson]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.That'd be your perception, sure. :biggrin:

But there were no great calls outside of the offices at Marvel to undo the marriage. I don't remember there being a large group of fans clamouring for the change that was made.

[brundlefly]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.

Kraven's Last Hunt, Amazing Spider-Man #400, and Spectacular Spider-Man #200, just to quickly name three stories from that period, demonstrate that your post is wildly inaccurate.

EDIT: You appear to have already amended the original post, so you noted that statement's inaccuracy as well.

[AbdulAziz]

One of things I most adore about the 1st 3 Spider-Man cartoons is there is no M.J
But after reading the comics for so long and loving M.J:

Separating her from Peter is like lacking oxygen from the air, but killing M.J is like the Sun in an eternal eclipse as well (for the Spider-Man world only) so my answer is NO

[Jim Thompson]

Note, I'm not claiming that Millar's Spider-Man run, Dematteis's Spectacular Spider-Man or Micheline/ Mcfarlane's Amazing Spider-Man don't count as great material. But if that's all you have in a twenty year period, there's a problem.'Course you've left out the Micheline/Larson, Micheline/Bagley runs in ASM, Larson's work in Spider-Man, the early part of JMS' run, and Jenkin's work with the character. And that's really just what's jumping to mind right now.

[philly]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.

Note, I'm not claiming that Millar's Spider-Man run, Dematteis's Spectacular Spider-Man or Micheline/ Mcfarlane's Amazing Spider-Man don't count as great material. But if that's all you have in a twenty year period, there's a problem.


That's still better than most books out there who has lasted as long as Spider-Man and still ten times better than anything that BND's brain trust has brought so far.

[Jim Thompson]

That's still better than most books out there who has lasted as long as Spider-Man and still ten times better than anything that BND's brain trust has brought so far.Interesting way of thinking about BND. To me, BND has only been better than JMS' late run (Sins Past to OMD) and Mackie's run. Otherwise, it hasn't been any kind of improvement.

But it's still early -- and I'm intrigued by some of the upcoming stories, and was happy with Slott's last arc.

[TF_loki]

'Course you've left out the Micheline/Larson, Micheline/Bagley runs in ASM, Larson's work in Spider-Man, the early part of JMS' run, and Jenkin's work with the character. And that's really just what's jumping to mind right now.



MJ's critical role in Round Robin is unknown to me:wink:

Seriously though, she's barely there for a lot of the Micheline stuff so not having her around would have affected things very little.

[TROUBLEZ]

What would be the point of erasing BND if Mary Jane was dead?

That's the main reason I don't like Spider-man, is because Quesada split Spidey and MJ up.

[Jim Thompson]

MJ's critical role in Round Robin is unknown to me:wink:

Seriously though, she's barely there for a lot of the Micheline stuff so not having her around would have affected things very little.See, part of why I enjoyed those stories was because MJ was portrayed well in them.

[TROUBLEZ]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.


So when did you enjoy Spider-man? In the 60s and 70s only?

I enjoyed Spider-man the whole time, and the only thing I really disliked was:

1) the overexposure of Venom/becoming a good guy/invasion of the symbiotes/Carnage
2)Clone Saga lasting way to long/Ben Reilly is the REAL Spider-man
3)and recently, CIVIL WAR lasting way too long/out of character Spidey revealing himself/OMD/BND

The only reason Marvel erased the marriage is because Joe Quesada wants the Spider-man he grew up with, back.

[Jim Thompson]

Ben Reilly is the REAL Spider-manFriend...I like you! :biggrin:

[mikekerr3]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.

Note, I'm not claiming that Millar's Spider-Man run, Dematteis's Spectacular Spider-Man or Micheline/ Mcfarlane's Amazing Spider-Man don't count as great material. But if that's all you have in a twenty year period, there's a problem.

I will agree when anything after BND is 0.1% as good as Fractions annual. When I even hear of a book that has a consensus of "great" i will onsider give the book a try but I don't think the Spider_archi wille ever get There.

. The quality of the Story comes from the writer and artist not the Status Quo.

When do you anticipate that ASM will get to great? Unless the last issue was fantastic they haven't doe any better than fair with "meh" being the average.

JMS was a writer for hire ,Joe Q wanted the marriage gone and JMS did it. I have read nothing from before OMD that even hints that JMS thought the marriage was limiting. And if he says anything to contradict the Marvel line now he loses work. JMS wanted to retcon too much but it seams he wanted to poduce a quality piece of work, Joe Q wanted to do less but put out a piece of garbage which even 15 issies later they can;t explain.

[Mister Mets]

That's still better than most books out there who has lasted as long as Spider-Man and still ten times better than anything that BND's brain trust has brought so far.The Superman, Batman, Captain America, Daredevil, X-Men, Avengers and Fantastic Four franchises have all had more high points in the last eighteen years than the married Spider-Man (in my opinion).

'Course you've left out the Micheline/Larson, Micheline/Bagley runs in ASM, Larson's work in Spider-Man, the early part of JMS' run, and Jenkin's work with the character. And that's really just what's jumping to mind right now.



The early part of JMS's run was set when the Parkers were separated. Paul Jenkins's Peter Parker Spider-Man was set in the same period, or at the time Mary Jane was believed dead. I noted the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated in my original post.

I was unaware that Micheline/ Bagley or Micheline/ Larsen were especially acclaimed periods in the Spider-Man series. What were the best stories from the two runs?

[Mister Mets]

So when did you enjoy Spider-man? In the 60s and 70s only?
Lee/ Ditko, Lee/ Romita, The Night Gwen Stacy Died, Wolfman's Burglar arc, Roger Stern's Amazing Spider-Man, Mantlo's Owl/ Dr Octopus war, Defalco's Alien Costume saga, Kraven's Last Hunt, Micheline/ Mcfarlane's ASM, Dematteis's first run of Spectacular Spider-Man, JMS/ Romita Jr's Amazing Spider-Man, the first two movies, Ultimate Spider-Man, Untold Tales of Spider-Man, Millar's Spider-Man, Spider-Man/ Human Torch, Peter David's 80s Spider-Man work, Jenkins's Peter Parker Spider-Man


I enjoyed Spider-man the whole time, and the only thing I really disliked was:

1) the overexposure of Venom/becoming a good guy/invasion of the symbiotes/Carnage
2)Clone Saga lasting way to long/Ben Reilly is the REAL Spider-man
3)and recently, CIVIL WAR lasting way too long/out of character Spidey revealing himself/OMD/BND

The only reason Marvel erased the marriage is because Joe Quesada wants the Spider-man he grew up with, back.I think Quesada has legitimate reasons for believing that the Spider-Man he grew up with (incidentally not the Spider-Man I grew up with) is more viable in the long term.

I will agree when anything after BND is 0.1% as good as Fractions annual. When I even hear of a book that has a consensus of "great" i will onsider give the book a try but I don't think the Spider_archi wille ever get There.

. The quality of the Story comes from the writer and artist not the Status Quo.

When do you anticipate that ASM will get to great? Unless the last issue was fantastic they haven't doe any better than fair with "meh" being the average.

JMS was a writer for hire ,Joe Q wanted the marriage gone and JMS did it. I have read nothing from before OMD that even hints that JMS thought the marriage was limiting. And if he says anything to contradict the Marvel line now he loses work. JMS wanted to retcon too much but it seams he wanted to poduce a quality piece of work, Joe Q wanted to do less but put out a piece of garbage which even 15 issies later they can;t explain.I really enjoyed Slott/ Martin's three issue stint, which seems to be well reviewed. I'd give it a 9/10. I wouldn't be surprised if Slott/ Romita Jr's story ends up topping Fraction's Spider-Man annual, although that was likely the best Spider-Man story in a two and a half year period.

If the quality of a story comes from the writer and artist not the status quo, the current status quo shouldn't hurt the chances for a great story.

[TROUBLEZ]

Lee/ Ditko, Lee/ Romita, The Night Gwen Stacy Died, Wolfman's Burglar arc, Roger Stern's Amazing Spider-Man, Mantlo's Owl/ Dr Octopus war, Defalco's Alien Costume saga, Kraven's Last Hunt, Micheline/ Mcfarlane's ASM, Dematteis's first run of Spectacular Spider-Man, JMS/ Romita Jr's Amazing Spider-Man, the first two movies, Ultimate Spider-Man, Untold Tales of Spider-Man, Millar's Spider-Man, Spider-Man/ Human Torch, Peter David's 80s Spider-Man work, Jenkins's Peter Parker Spider-Man

Did you read the Ditko stuff when it first came out?


I think Quesada has legitimate reasons for believing that the Spider-Man he grew up with (incidentally not the Spider-Man I grew up with) is more viable in the long term.

Hearing Joe Quesada talk about how Spider-man can download porn and have one night stands (har har) or how the marriage "never felt" right to him, don't sound like legitimate reasons.

[ZT4]

There was some swell stuff with MJ during The Clone Saga also, she slowly resorted to using a gun, fell in between the cracks of the Ben and Peter conflicted, kept a brave face and even forgave Peter for striking her (he didnt know it was her, but fool yourselves all you will on that one), she demonstrated she was a real strong-willed inspiration, and her conviction that Peter was the "real deal" did more to assure readers that knew better Peter was'nt the clone at a time it was established that he was.

The marraige isnt a problem. Fact.

[carabas]

The lack of great material from the period (with the big exception of when MJ was believed dead/ the Parkers were separated) demonstrates that.It depends... How much great material from before the mariage really was there that was measurably better than the post-mariage stories? Other than Stan Lee's run, of course.

[Jim Thompson]

I think Quesada has legitimate reasons for believing that the Spider-Man he grew up with (incidentally not the Spider-Man I grew up with) is more viable in the long term.I think he has his reasons, but I'm not sure how legitimate they are. He is returning the character to what it was when he was growing up; it's the one he is familiar with. I think that's probably his primary reason. The time period when he grew to care about the character seems like it is the most viable to him.

Doesn't make it so (or not so). Just might explain why he was so passionate about returning the character to a former incarnation.

[Tobias Drake]

Really? How come?

Personal preference. I came into comics in the 90's, when MJ was a ball and chain that smoked and drank to avoid having to deal with being married to a superhero, and generally just made Peter's life worse. This left a stain on my perception of the character that no amount of pimping will fix. As a result, I'm generally biased against the character of MJ. I make a note to bring this up any time I weigh in an on opinion that concerns the character, because it is a clearly biased opinion based on my original experiences with the character.

[Jim Thompson]

Personal preference. I came into comics in the 90's, when MJ was a ball and chain that smoked and drank to avoid having to deal with being married to a superhero, and generally just made Peter's life worse. This left a stain on my perception of the character that no amount of pimping will fix. As a result, I'm generally biased against the character of MJ. I make a note to bring this up any time I weigh in an on opinion that concerns the character, because it is a clearly biased opinion based on my original experiences with the character.Okay -- I was just curious. Thanks!

And I didn't have any trouble with MJ smoking. Thought that was a good little sub-pot. If I was married to a superhero, I might start smoking, too!

[The Shadow]

So when did you enjoy Spider-man? In the 60s and 70s only?

I can't speak for Mets, but as someone who really enjoys BND I can state that I too have enjoyed Spidey throughout the years from the 60's to the present.

BUT after a 21 year marriage some new stories of a single Peter are welcomed.

[The Shadow]

Hearing Joe Quesada talk about how Spider-man can download porn and have one night stands (har har) or how the marriage "never felt" right to him, don't sound like legitimate reasons.

What??? :confused:

Where has Joe said Spidey can now download porn or have one night stands? :confused:

And Joe wasn't the only one the marriage didn't feel right to.

[Mister Mets]

Did you read the Ditko stuff when it first came out? No. The first comics I read as they came out were Howard Mackie's pre-Clone Saga Spider-Man.

Hearing Joe Quesada talk about how Spider-man can download porn and have one night stands (har har) or how the marriage "never felt" right to him, don't sound like legitimate reasons."Download porn" was a joke. I don't remember the one night stands comment. Saying the marriage "never felt" right was his interpretation of the character.


It depends... How much great material from before the mariage really was there that was measurably better than the post-mariage stories? Other than Stan Lee's run, of course.I don't think anything's measurably better in this case, as it is all subjective. Although I do believe that "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" is better than Kraven's Last Hunt, "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" is better than Millar's run on Spider-Man and Spider-Man VS Wolverine is better than Dematteis's Harry Osborn saga. Name a good story with the marriage, and I could name a post Stan Lee/ pre-marriage story I liked better.

Though, something else I consider as a factor against the marriage is that a disproportionate amount of the recent best Spider-Man stories don't feature a married Spider-Man. These include
- Untold tales (including Death & destiny and Spider-Man/ Human Torch #1-4)
- The Ultimate Spider-Man series
- The first two movies
- The Marvel Universe Spider-Man books when Mary Jane & Peter were separated
- The Paul Jenkins Peter Parker Spider-Man run when Mary Jane was believed dead.

There were some excellent stories with a married Peter Parker and Mary Jane (notably Millar's run, a few JMS arcs, Spider-Man/ Human Torch #5, Beland's Web of Romance, Sensational Spider-Man Annual One) but there were just more great stories in recent years that don't deal with the marriage.

[carabas]

There were some excellent stories with a married Peter Parker and Mary Jane (notably Millar's run, a few JMS arcs, Spider-Man/ Human Torch #5, Beland's Web of Romance, Sensational Spider-Man Annual One) but there were just more great stories in recent years that don't deal with the marriage.Might as well say that the pre-marriage stories are just great stories that don't deal with him being single.

I don't really care about the marriage that much, actually. BND Peter just seems like a completely different character from pre-OMD Peter. He's got more or less the same powers and likes to tell bad jokes during fights, and that is pretty much where the similarities end for me.

Ultimate Spider-Man (IMO the best Spider-Man ever, including Stan Lee's), has a lot more in common in my opinion with pre-OMD Spidey than the current version.

[Jim Thompson]

Might as well say that the pre-marriage stories are just great stories that don't deal with him being single.

I don't really care about the marriage that much, actually. BND Peter just seems like a completely different character from pre-OMD Peter. He's got more or less the same powers and likes to tell bad jokes during fights, and that is pretty much where the similarities end for me.

Ultimate Spider-Man -- has a lot more in common in my opinion with pre-OMD Spidey than the current version.As they say, quoted for truth.

[Mister Mets]

Might as well say that the pre-marriage stories are just great stories that don't deal with him being single.

I don't really care about the marriage that much, actually. BND Peter just seems like a completely different character from pre-OMD Peter. He's got more or less the same powers and likes to tell bad jokes during fights, and that is pretty much where the similarities end for me.

Ultimate Spider-Man (IMO the best Spider-Man ever, including Stan Lee's), has a lot more in common in my opinion with pre-OMD Spidey than the current version.Interesting. How so?

[ZT4]

If you seriously cant see that USM's Peter is probably the best version of a relatable, "all-priorities" Peter Parker in years, and the definitive fresh mythology, you've been a doomed case since these arguments begun and very clearly only care about the franchise, not the character.

[Mister Mets]

If you seriously cant see that USM's Peter is probably the best version of a relatable, "all-priorities" Peter Parker in years, and the definitive fresh mythology, you've been a doomed case since these arguments begun and very clearly only care about the franchise, not the character.
I simply asked how the Ultimate Spider-Man is closer to pre-OMD Spider-Man than the BND Spider-Man. That has nothing to do with my opinion of the quality of either variation.

[Rahul]

I simply asked how the Ultimate Spider-Man is closer to pre-OMD Spider-Man than the BND Spider-Man. That has nothing to do with my opinion of the quality of either variation.
Way I see it, the "every man"ish problems that befell Peter in the Ultimate Universe were a little more organic than the current BND.

In BND, those problems were being dogpiled upon, with Peter looking a bit of a idiot, and the way it was being portrayed was so over the top that it was hard to feel sympathy for the character.

You'd feel more sympathy for Peter Parker's home project destroyed rather than see him get fired from the DB. In the former it was genuine, in the latter it is "by the book".

Granted in both universes, Single Parke exists, but Ultimate handles it better than Regular without feeling forced.

[Magneto Rocks]

If you seriously cant see that USM's Peter is probably the best version of a relatable, "all-priorities" Peter Parker in years, and the definitive fresh mythology, you've been a doomed case since these arguments begun and very clearly only care about the franchise, not the character.

Or simply disagree with you? That does remain a possibility, right?

[Jim Thompson]

I simply asked how the Ultimate Spider-Man is closer to pre-OMD Spider-Man than the BND Spider-Man. That has nothing to do with my opinion of the quality of either variation.I don't know how'd he'd answer, but it seems to me USM Spidey is much better at making moral decisions than the BND Spidey. He makes mistakes, but they are not the same sort of mistakes the BND Spidey seems to make. His mistakes are made through inexperience, as opposed to just not seeing how his actions will ultimately hurt someone.

End of the day, the USM seems a lot less selfish and a lot more adult than the BND Spidey, to me anyway.

[Mister Mets]

Way I see it, the "every man"ish problems that befell Peter in the Ultimate Universe were a little more organic than the current BND.

In BND, those problems were being dogpiled upon, with Peter looking a bit of a idiot, and the way it was being portrayed was so over the top that it was hard to feel sympathy for the character.

You'd feel more sympathy for Peter Parker's home project destroyed rather than see him get fired from the DB. In the former it was genuine, in the latter it is "by the book".

Granted in both universes, Single Parke exists, but Ultimate handles it better than Regular without feeling forced.

I don't know how'd he'd answer, but it seems to me USM Spidey is much better at making moral decisions than the BND Spidey. He makes mistakes, but they are not the same sort of mistakes the BND Spidey seems to make. His mistakes are made through inexperience, as opposed to just not seeing how his actions will ultimately hurt someone.

End of the day, the USM seems a lot less selfish and a lot more adult than the BND Spidey, to me anyway.

Thanks for politely answering the question. I understand your positions better now (even if I don't agree with them.)

[carabas]

I don't know how'd he'd answer, but it seems to me USM Spidey is much better at making moral decisions than the BND Spidey. He makes mistakes, but they are not the same sort of mistakes the BND Spidey seems to make. His mistakes are made through inexperience, as opposed to just not seeing how his actions will ultimately hurt someone.

End of the day, the USM seems a lot less selfish and a lot more adult than the BND Spidey, to me anyway.That is pretty much it.

Ultimate Spidey and pre-OMD Spidey are strong character who have already made their rookie listakes and learned from them. They know that using powers fo monetairy gain is iffy at best. They have a moral compass. And married or not, they have a soulmate in MJ. They may be a dick from time to time, but this comes from an overdeveloped sense of responsability rather than greed lust or whatever. This may be not what he started out as in the sixties and seventies, but it is what the character had been for well over a decade.
Pre-OMD Spidey was proud to be an Avenger. Ultimate Spidey is one of only three characters willing to get into Nick Fury's face and telling him what's what when he's wrong (the other two being Wolverine and Captain America).

I can't really see post-OMD Spidey being allowed anywhere near the Avengers tower, the way he heaps rookie mistake on rookie mistake (not to mention the odd secret identity memory loss).

[spiderman_rj]

Dead red is fine for me,would like to see felicia back in the picture,with some proper writing,it's clear she still having feelings for pete,but stood out of the picture for respect of his marriege.

[Mister Mets]

17 posts on whether Spider-Man's making rookie mistakes have been moved into a new thread on the subject.