Jean Paul Valley Lives! [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

lonewolf23k

06-11-2008, 07:42 PM

Check out the new chalkboard in Rip Hunter's Time Lab from Booster Gold #10!

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=483

But the note right underneath says "That's Not Him!"

Samuraixsithlord

06-11-2008, 07:44 PM

Trigon = Red Herring

i like that one

Sean Whitmore

06-11-2008, 07:44 PM

Just disregard the giant "That's not him!" written under his name. :wink:

EDIT: Ah, lonewolf beat me to it.

SEAN

Ben Reilly#6

06-11-2008, 10:56 PM

I guess it's just some kind of sarcastic in-joke concerning whoever takes the mantle after R.I.P. I got a good laugh at it, at least. Unless it's hinting at the appearance of someone impersonating Jean Paul Valley, which makes about as much sense these days as impersonating The Eraser. But I digress...

Personally, I'm more concerned over the "Gotham isn't safe. MIDNIGHT HAS THE HEARTS!" message. What the heck does that mean? Some kind of Final Crisis hint?

HaroldAllnut

06-11-2008, 11:08 PM

Check out the new chalkboard in Rip Hunter's Time Lab from Booster Gold #10! http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=483 But the note right underneath says "That's Not Him!"

I bet he's a Skrull.

AlistairCrane

06-11-2008, 11:39 PM

Personally, I'm more concerned over the "Gotham isn't safe. MIDNIGHT HAS THE HEARTS!" message. What the heck does that mean? Some kind of Final Crisis hint?

The new maxiseries Gotham After Midnight features a villain named Midnight.

carabas

06-12-2008, 12:32 AM

I bet he's a Skrull.It's probably former Manhunter Mark Shaw.

AlistairCrane

06-12-2008, 12:40 AM

It's probably former Manhunter Mark Shaw.

I hope not. It's time for Jean-Paul to come back.

Samuraixsithlord

06-12-2008, 01:32 AM

I hope not. It's time for Jean-Paul to come back.

I think the "That's not him" refers to Trigon.

matthewaos

06-12-2008, 06:33 AM

Hope he returns as Azrael. btw, I haven't read gothem after midnight, but I think it will be one absolute mini!

Choppa

06-12-2008, 08:25 AM

Samuraixsithlord

06-12-2008, 07:59 PM

Choppa

06-12-2008, 08:13 PM

Did the Red Lanterns exist in the 90's?

You're talking about one of the new corps that Johns created right? Obviously they didn't since he only wrote the book now.

matthewaos

06-13-2008, 12:08 PM

What he meant was that if the red lanterns didn't exist in the 90s and the Gotham after midnight is out now, so those mentions in the board are not 90s references.

JdRavnos

06-13-2008, 12:22 PM

Hate to burst bubbles here, but that chalkboard exists in an alternate universe where Ted never died. It doesn't count for our regular Earth. Time will probably be fixed in the next issue.

I think it's just another 90's reference that Johns likes to put in his stuff. Despite the other recent references to JPV I don't think he will really come back now.

The timeline branched out though from the point where Ted died, which was long after Jean Paul supposedly died. If he survived in that timeline there's no reason to believe that he couldn't have survived in this one.

Which isn't to say he did survive. I wouldn't use a chalkboard as hard evidence, especially when it contradicts itself, but it's a possibility. Perhaps Johns did just mean it to be a fun easter egg, or it could be a hint of things to come. Johns has a tendancy to do both.

Choppa

06-13-2008, 12:31 PM

What he meant was that if the red lanterns didn't exist in the 90s and the Gotham after midnight is out now, so those mentions in the board are not 90s references.

I see. Well I never said that everything on the board was a 90's reference, just that one line, so I wasn't sure what he meant.

The timeline branched out though from the point where Ted died, which was long after Jean Paul supposedly died. If he survived in that timeline there's no reason to believe that he couldn't have survived in this one.

Which isn't to say he did survive. I wouldn't use a chalkboard as hard evidence, especially when it contradicts itself, but it's a possibility. Perhaps Johns did just mean it to be a fun easter egg, or it could be a hint of things to come. Johns has a tendancy to do both.

Sure, I see what you're saying, I personally doubt it though and think it's more of a shoutout, especially since in that world they team up with the JLI, which was also during the 90's. Moreoever, there have been a bunch of references to Azrael, but nothing concrete yet.

Cornelius Stirk

06-14-2008, 06:24 AM

hope there's at least a plausible resurrection story, not just another Superboy prime 'he was never meant to die' wall punch.

Lester C.

06-14-2008, 10:44 PM

As much as I miss Jean, DC has done everything it's can over the years to reduce the Bat Family down to Batman and Robin. In a short span of time they got rid of Gordon killed Opherous then Spoiler. Then they turned Leslie Thompkins and Batgirl evil and got rid of them both. After that they wanted to kill Nightwing but were overruled.

I want to mention Huntress, but I don't think she counts. Anyway I don't see them bringing back an old family member. I also don't think that while Batgirl, Spoiler and Thompkins , while all fixed, will be operating out of Gotham anytime soon. Especially since the person who fixed them is no longer working at DC.

princesa

06-15-2008, 07:39 PM

How is this book btw? It seems unconventional which is good...

Samuraixsithlord

06-15-2008, 09:20 PM

hope there's at least a plausible resurrection story, not just another Superboy prime 'he was never meant to die' wall punch.

There was never a definitive answer to his death. They never found the body and it was hinted that he may return

Choppa

06-16-2008, 12:27 PM

How is this book btw? It seems unconventional which is good...

It's great, go get it!! The first arc has been collected in the trade "52 Pickup"

http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/9/0/9007_400x600.jpg

There was never a definitive answer to his death. They never found the body and it was hinted that he may return

Exactly what I was going to say.

Midina^_^

06-17-2008, 12:23 AM

mmmm why do they keep bringing back Batman characters?
Jason Todd... Stephanie Brown...
Now Azrael? I honestly never thought Jean was that intresting. EEEk hopefully he won't be batman again... *Shudders*
It's probly just a joke.

Bat-Reader

06-17-2008, 05:24 AM

No one wanted Jason Todd back. I like Jason Todd but a robin was killed by Joker was too good to ruin like this...

Azrael is a different case. His death serves no purpose, he has a rich consept that he brings in Batverse. Things like Order of St. Dumas. As mantioned up there his body wasn't found anywhere so may be he never died in the first place( I hope...). This would be so much better then another punch to the time and space or something too fantastic like that.

http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=azraelml1.jpg

carabas

06-17-2008, 11:00 AM

Choppa

06-17-2008, 11:01 AM

^The chalkboard basically, though it's most likely nothing. I don't know what Midina is talking about.

Bat-Reader

06-17-2008, 11:58 AM

Just wondering, is this return-of-Jean-Paul rumour based on anything else than wishful thinking and Rip Hunter's rather ambiguous blackboard?
Because Manhunter #29-30 seems quite clear on who will be the latest Azrael.

didn't read that issues but i heard about it, you talk about that former manhunter guy right ? order of st dumas wanted him to be Azrael or something.

Well, I hope they won't use that guy. He has no connection to The Bats that kind of Azrael doesn't matter. They shouldn't replace Jean Paul.

carabas

06-17-2008, 01:16 PM

Well, I hope they won't use that guy. He has no connection to The Bats that kind of Azrael doesn't matter. They shouldn't replace Jean Paul.Jean-Paul Valley is/was the brain-washed and genetically manipulated assassin of some heretic pseudo-Christian cult. He arguably never belonged in Batman's world in the first place. I mean, the ongoing series, did that really have the feel of a Batman book, or did it belong more in the realm of Richard Dragon, Manhunter or Iron Fist?

Also, IIRC Denny killed off Jean-Paul because he didn't want other writers ruining his character.

Bat-Reader

06-17-2008, 01:31 PM

Jean-Paul Valley is/was the brain-washed and genetically manipulated assassin of some heretic pseudo-Christian cult. He arguably never belonged in Batman's world in the first place. I mean, the ongoing series, did that really have the feel of a Batman book, or did it belong more in the realm of Richard Dragon, Manhunter or Iron Fist?

Also, IIRC Denny killed off Jean-Paul because he didn't want other writers ruining his character.

Once you became Batman for a while and after that your series called Azrael The Agent Of The Bat, yep you pretty much belong to Bats.

Well, no one ascapes from the bad writers ! (nod to the lantern manhunters) well they pretty much wrote him terribly in his own series in the past anyway... so meh... lets take our chances. :D

carabas

06-17-2008, 02:26 PM

Well, no one ascapes from the bad writers ! (nod to the lantern manhunters) well they pretty much wrote him terribly in his own series in the past anyway... so meh... lets take our chances. :DYou're saying that Denny O'Neill, uber-Batguru of the eighties and creator of Azreal, got him wrong?

Bat-Reader

06-17-2008, 02:31 PM

You're saying that Denny O'Neill, uber-Batguru of the eighties and creator of Azreal, got him wrong?

Don't answer this. you start to annoy me. Azrael was written by different writers too.

AlistairCrane

06-17-2008, 02:34 PM

Don't answer this. you start to annoy me. Azrael was written by many different writers.

His 100-issue run was written entirely by O'Neil.

Choppa

06-17-2008, 08:52 PM

And his debut- Sword of Azrael

Samy

06-17-2008, 09:47 PM

Lol, owned.

Bat-Reader

06-18-2008, 01:56 AM

then i read some not that bright issues of Azrael which was written by O'Neil. Oh my god it's the end of the world. :rolleyes:

Christopher Cross Is God

06-18-2008, 10:15 AM

then i read some not that bright issues of Azrael which was written by O'Neil. Oh my god it's the end of the world. :rolleyes:

Which of O'Neil's Azrael material was supposed to be good? I remember trying to get into that comic series and not liking any of it. Granted, I didn't read the entire series, but what little I read, I wasn't into.

matthewaos

06-18-2008, 10:41 AM

The mini with Quesada was good, and I loved the art at the time. I have read some random Azrael issues and they were fine.

Choppa

06-18-2008, 11:04 AM

Which of O'Neil's Azrael material was supposed to be good? I remember trying to get into that comic series and not liking any of it. Granted, I didn't read the entire series, but what little I read, I wasn't into.

It was interesting up until the middle, around issue 50, when the gimmicks started, he became an "Agent of the Bat," and started changing his costume like he was Spiderman or something.

Ironically, the thing that hurt the character was really not changing writers.

Christopher Cross Is God

06-18-2008, 11:09 AM

It was interesting up until the middle, around issue 50, when the gimmicks started, he became an "Agent of the Bat," and started changing his costume like he was Spiderman.

Ironically, the thing that hurt the character was really not changing writers.

I think the only issues I have are 1, 3, and 5......They weren't enough to get me hooked, I simply found it uninspiring.

I remember browsing through other issues (Maybe reading an issue or two) and just couldn't get into it.

Bat-Reader

06-18-2008, 11:20 AM

I don't really have much issues of Azrael. I have Sword of Azrael treade... it's good but the Batman in it was kind of odd... he was acting like bond kind of... it was weird from the Bat side but Azrael was written well. And I have som Azrael issues in "No Man's Land" and of couse "Contacion" TPBs. And i agree Choppa When they changed Azrael Costume to that red and white lame costume, it kind of started to go down.

carabas

06-18-2008, 01:14 PM

It was interesting up until the middle, around issue 50, when the gimmicks started, he became an "Agent of the Bat," and started changing his costume like he was Spiderman or something.Sales were rather dire almost from the start, IIRC. The "Agent of the Bat" was trying to stave off cancelation.

As for the costume, if there ever was a superhero with valid reasons tochange his costume, it was Azrael, given the rol it played in his programming as a killer and all. The mistake was switching from one of the best ever costumes in recent memory to one of the most dull ones ever imagined.

Choppa

06-18-2008, 04:07 PM

Sales were rather dire almost from the start, IIRC. The "Agent of the Bat" was trying to stave off cancelation.

As for the costume, if there ever was a superhero with valid reasons tochange his costume, it was Azrael, given the rol it played in his programming as a killer and all. The mistake was switching from one of the best ever costumes in recent memory to one of the most dull ones ever imagined.

I didn't say anythign about the sales. I said they stopped getting interesting, which is probably the cause of all the gimmicks, especially the return to Azbats towards the end.

matthewaos

06-18-2008, 04:49 PM

It was interesting up until the middle, around issue 50, when the gimmicks started, he became an "Agent of the Bat," and started changing his costume like he was Spiderman or something.

Ironically, the thing that hurt the character was really not changing writers.

:confused:
Spidey does not have so many costumes, considering that he has 500+ issues on his main title, and another 4 or five titles that have past #100.

AlistairCrane

06-18-2008, 05:04 PM

Bat-Reader

06-18-2008, 11:36 PM

Jean-Paul's been gone long enough now that it would be easy for a decent writer could come along and write something wonderful for him.

Hey, how come Jean-Paul doesn't have a memorial in the cave? Hmmm....!!!

I won't go like "OMG he was a brother in arms, we all loved him" and things like that. But they should have put The Azbat Armor in the cave's background. It should have showed up time to time from some angles, Batman even keeps Mr. Freez's gun and things like that after all.

Choppa

06-19-2008, 01:07 PM

:confused:
Spidey does not have so many costumes, considering that he has 500+ issues on his main title, and another 4 or five titles that have past #100.

I was comparing it to recent events. He went from his regular suit to the iron suit to the black suit all in a short span. It was mostly just a joke that didn't come off well.

Jean-Paul's been gone long enough now that it would be easy for a decent writer could come along and write something wonderful for him.

Hey, how come Jean-Paul doesn't have a memorial in the cave? Hmmm....!!!

Because DC wants you to forget that he exists. When he returned in the Fugitive storyline he miraculously found it in the cave. What doesn't make sense is that all the stuff should have been ruined in the earthquake.

matthewaos

06-20-2008, 04:49 PM

The latest costume changes was a joke, indeed...

I think that they didn't want you to remember Spoiler or Azreal, that's why they don't have a memorial. Though Dixon used it to his advantage, and because there was no body for Azrael, we can assume that Batman has his mind on it.

Bat-Reader

07-05-2008, 04:43 PM

this is my favorite Azrael cover.
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/azrael/27-1.jpg

Sizzle

07-05-2008, 08:59 PM

Maybe DC does not use Jean Paul because then they'd have to publish Joe Q's name in a DC comic book for the "created by" box.....

mattx110

07-05-2008, 09:20 PM

Maybe DC does not use Jean Paul because then they'd have to publish Joe Q's name in a DC comic book for the "created by" box.....
crap, good catch. That might be so. Petty fools!

Stony

07-05-2008, 09:23 PM

I remember after reading HUSH that I thought that it might actually have turned out to be a good story if HUSH were JPV

I mean, it makes sense...

Choppa

07-05-2008, 09:45 PM

I remember after reading HUSH that I thought that it might actually have turned out to be a good story if HUSH were JPV

I mean, it makes sense...

I asked Jeph Loeb when HUSH was still running if JPV would have anything to do with it. He said he couldn't answer that question. Looking back I don't see why not! :rolleyes:

carabas

07-05-2008, 11:33 PM

I remember after reading HUSH that I thought that it might actually have turned out to be a good story if HUSH were JPV

I mean, it makes sense...Let's say that it does not make less sense than what Loeb did go with.

Scott Iskow

07-18-2008, 06:39 PM

One thing I like about Azrael is that he's the screw-up of the Bat family. He's made so many mistakes and wrong turns over his relatively brief superhero career and has suffered several blows to his confidence. (And he gets mentally unraveled quicker than Daredevil.) He's as talented a fighter as Batman, but without that sense of purpose.

Okay, let's say Azrael does come back. Who should write? Who would "get" him?

matthewaos

07-19-2008, 12:12 PM

Rucka, Brubaker, Aaron, Azzarello, Dini, and I Robinson (I think he's the one who wrote "Face the face", right?) Those are not who I think will "get" him, but who I would want to see them write him.

Seraku

07-19-2008, 09:11 PM

Did no one read "Booster Gold #1,000,000"? near the end we see Rip writting on his chalk board again and on the board he wrote

"Azrael Comes and Goes"

your thoughts/interpretations?

matthewaos

07-19-2008, 09:19 PM

I'm pretty sure it means something. But what "comes and goes" could mean...? Maye he return briefly?

Choppa

07-19-2008, 11:15 PM

Did no one read "Booster Gold #1,000,000"? near the end we see Rip writting on his chalk board again and on the board he wrote

"Azrael Comes and Goes"

your thoughts/interpretations?

Probably a reference to all of the hints/teases we've seen. That itself is a tease, since the first chalkboard said he lives, but in another timeline.

Seraku

07-19-2008, 11:41 PM

Johns' hints are usually addressed, in 52 they were all addressed minus the ones he just plum forgot because they were so vague.

also Rip's base seems to be out of timeline and wasn't affected by his muck ups.