Huntress: Year One #3

[AlistairCrane]

Helena dons the Huntress costume for the first time after reuniting with a friend from the past and learning who ordered the hit on her family.

Ivory Madison's writing continues to impress me with the characterization and dialogue. The whole series feels "Godfather"-esque, which is good for a character like Huntress. However, I'm excited for her return to Gotham next month.

And of course, Cliff Richards' art continutes to be awesome.

[Alexx1]

Surpisingly, the third issue felt like a filler-issue. But it was nice to see who all the players were that are trying to get their hands on Helena's 3 billion dollor inheritence. Yes I said 3 billion!!! Hopefully we'll get some explanation next issue concerning THE HAND and Helena's fortune, like the why. But I'm assuming this is why her entire family was excuted, so that THE HAND could split up this vast fortune accumlated by the Bertinelli clan.

The best part of the issue, we'll one of the best parts, SAL's ALIVE. This was the gem part of the book. Just getting to see Helena and Sal interact and talk. I simply adore this relationship. I enjoy how they handle each other, how free and open they are with one another and how they trust each other implicitly. Of course the other part was seeing Helena don the Huntress outfit for the first time and go after Stefano Mandragora (the boss of bosses and who had been in hiding for 35 years) who Sal tells her ordered the hit on her family.

I don't know what going on with Cliff's pencils. When it's good, it's beautiful and breathtaking and when it's bad, it's disjointed.

And about the only thing I didn't like in terms of the writing was this Helena and dresses stuff again. It feels foreign, forced, and not Helena Bertinelli to keep hearing she doesn't like dresses. I could let it go, excuse it, ignore it last issue. To hear it again, it's a little ridiculous especially when I feel and have seen the opposite. Other than that, I think Ivory Madison wrote another solid issue. And I can't wait to see what Helena does to Mandragora and for Helena to head back to Gotham as well.

I have a feeling the next issue might be bloody good!

[AlistairCrane]

Did Sal appear in Cry for Blood? I've never read it.

[Alexx1]

Did Sal appear in Cry for Blood? I've never read it.

Yes he did. We got great flashback scenes of Helena's time spent under the care and guidance of Sal!! Go pick up the TRADE. One of Rucka's best stories!!!

[HouseSolo]

The best part of this for me is the art. It's not the writing that gives it the god-father feel, at least not for me, it's the art. It's been outstanding. I'm usually not one to follow artists, but I'm going to start keeping an eye out.

[juggling man]

Wow! Alex, you're a great dude, but I sooo don't agree with you that this is a filler issue. So much happened! Oh, and I love the "I hate dresses" thing. L.O.V.E love it! For me, it just fits! This was by far my favorite issue!

I wrote a review at news-a-rama. Click here to read it. (http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3afc51cb95-612c-4a9e-b623-5a04a2abbe4cDiscussion%3af42659ac-fe90-461f-958d-0ee930886eb0&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0)

[juggling man]

Oh, by the way, anybody else think that Mandragora is "the Pope"?

What does iddio mean?

I thought it was interesting that Mandragore means "man-dragon". I'm not sure if that's a correct translation though but it would make sense. Any Italians to help us out here?

[Alexx1]

Wow! Alex, you're a great dude, but I sooo don't agree with you that this is a filler issue. So much happened! Oh, and I love the "I hate dresses" thing. L.O.V.E love it! For me, it just fits! This was by far my favorite issue!


juggling man, I think you're a great dude as well. But how does it fit? And it fits who? Not Helena Bertinelli. I have read absolutely everything Huntress is a part of whether it be on going titles or her guest appearing in several arcs.

We've seen Huntress wear dresses a million and one times and look damn good in them. I could see maybe a seven or eight year old Helena not wanting to wear a dress to mass but not a 21 year old Huntress.

Huntress would not say that and if she would at what point did it change.? Just like Huntress wouldn't say "she doesn't take shit from men". Huntress wouldn't take shit from ANYONE.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying this miniseries. I'm screaming it's praises to anyone who'll listen. But while I'm reading it, I'm trying to decide for myself as a humongousi fan of Huntress f Ivory Madison is the right writer to take on a Huntress on-going. She's a terrific writer. Lots of talent and a whole lot of potential. That doesn't mean she's right for a Huntress on-going. And little details like this actually go a long way in figuring out if the writer truly knows the character. Not surface stuff but the core of the character and what they stand for and who they are. Those two things are a little forced giving what we know of the character and may ring truer to other characters that we know of but not Helena Bertinelli. JMO.

And now I'm off to newsarama to read you're review!!!

[juggling man]

I see your point. Fair enough. But to me I see it as slightly different take on the character. A take I like. That's what I meant by it fits, I mean that somehow it "feels right" to me. But hey, it's all just opinions.

Here are some other things I loved or just noticed I wanted to discuss with everyone but didn't include in the review to prevent spoiling.

---I don't get why the priest is down in the first scene. Helena says she can't bring herself to hitting a priest but later he's on the floor. He does open an eye and move (was he faking?) then she smacks him upside his head. Huh? I got confused there. What's that all about?

---I think it was Batman who put a call to the guards in issue #2 to release her. That's just my gut. The two panels that looked like a surveillance camera (issue #2), the immediate co-operation of the guard and now i this issue Batman is still keeping an eye on Helena. Also, a lot of crime families are moving to Gotham so it would make sense that he's in Italy to investigate and keep tabs on the whole thing. What do you think?

---Another thing I loved about the dialog between Sal and Helena was that it underscored several other themes. Impossible love, and sacrifice. I also really liked the setting of the confessional, it paralleled the confessional nature of their conversation. Very appropriate.

---How 'bout that costume? Smoking! That's how you draw a large breasted woman in a skin tight costume without it looking dumb. I love that costume design! And the final line? "wanna know how it ends, Mandragora?" W00T!

Frig man! The art! Da-yum it's fine!

[Alexx1]

Oh, by the way, anybody else think that Mandragora is "the Pope"?

What does iddio mean?

I thought it was interesting that Mandragore means "man-dragon". I'm not sure if that's a correct translation though but it would make sense. Any Italians to help us out here?


No they aren't the same person.

I was wondering if The Pope was the character Helena knocked out and didn't recognize and didn't know if that was a good or bad thing. I thought maybe it was since later Sal mentioned to Helena she beat up a mand iddio the five most powerful men in the world.

Iddio means god. A mano means the hand.

[juggling man]

No they aren't the same person.

I was wondering if The Pope was the character Helena knocked out and didn't recognize and didn't know if that was a good or bad thing. I thought maybe it was since later Sal mentioned to Helena she beat up a mand iddio the five most powerful men in the world.

Iddio means god. A mano means the hand.

I knew mano meant hand (it's very close to french, "main"). So, the "Hand of God" then? Yes it would be fitting that it is the priest then. But in issue #1, she sees The Pope from far. He looks like Mandragora and isn't dressed in "the cloth".

???

[Alexx1]

I knew mano meant hand (it's very close to french, "main"). So, the "Hand of God" then? Yes it would be fitting that it is the priest then. But in issue #1, she sees The Pope from far. He looks like Mandragora and isn't dressed in "the cloth".

???

We know the short dude was Nino Angelos. The other guy was The Pope who looked nothing like a bald Mandragora. It's kind of hard to tell with Cliff's pencils sometimes become faces aren't consistent, but I would assume the priest she didn't recognize in the room was in fact the guy she saw from a far on the beach.

[juggling man]

True, true. I'll go check.

edit: Ha! I was way off. It wasn't in #1 it was in #2 and he ain't even bald like you say. That priest dude had round little glasses though. ... guess we'll have to wait and find out.

[rogerio]

I love Huntess but I dropped it after issue one...:frown:

[Alexx1]

I love Huntess but I dropped it after issue one...:frown:

Why if you don't mind me asking?

[rogerio]

Why if you don't mind me asking?
Just a a matter of taste, Alexx1. I dont liked Ivory’s writing and Cliff Richards artwork was inconsistent.
Cry For Blood is the definitive Huntress’ origin.

[AlistairCrane]

juggling man, I think you're a great dude as well. But how does it fit? And it fits who? Not Helena Bertinelli. I have read absolutely everything Huntress is a part of whether it be on going titles or her guest appearing in several arcs.

We've seen Huntress wear dresses a million and one times and look damn good in them. I could see maybe a seven or eight year old Helena not wanting to wear a dress to mass but not a 21 year old Huntress.

Huntress would not say that and if she would at what point did it change.? Just like Huntress wouldn't say "she doesn't take shit from men". Huntress wouldn't take shit from ANYONE.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying this miniseries. I'm screaming it's praises to anyone who'll listen. But while I'm reading it, I'm trying to decide for myself as a humongousi fan of Huntress f Ivory Madison is the right writer to take on a Huntress on-going. She's a terrific writer. Lots of talent and a whole lot of potential. That doesn't mean she's right for a Huntress on-going. And little details like this actually go a long way in figuring out if the writer truly knows the character. Not surface stuff but the core of the character and what they stand for and who they are. Those two things are a little forced giving what we know of the character and may ring truer to other characters that we know of but not Helena Bertinelli. JMO.

And now I'm off to newsarama to read you're review!!!

Why NOT a 21 year old Helena? The Helena you're used to seeing has been in her late twenties/early thirties. This is a YEAR ONE story and Helena's opinion on dresses could've changed between then and now.

[juggling man]

that's true also.

[Alexx1]

Why NOT a 21 year old Helena? The Helena you're used to seeing has been in her late twenties/early thirties. This is a YEAR ONE story and Helena's opinion on dresses could've changed between then and now.

A YO story rooted deeply in CFB. So far Ivory's managed to fill in some time gasp and explain more of Huntress's mafia family ties. And what a magnificent job she's done at that.

The Huntress I'm use to now and follow religiously now is the one in BoP. But Helena wasn't in her late 20's/30's in CFB, nor was she in her on-going Huntress series (even though I'm assuming we're to act like that series never existed, nor was she in Chuck Dixon's The Huntress mini-series or in Robin:The Cry For Huntress. Nor in her tenure in JLA before being kicked out by Batman. And Huntress doesn't live in a vacuum.

Ivory's not working with a character from a blank canvas. Motivations still should make sense. You can't just infuse whatever into a character that's existed for a while and say hey it's a YO so anything goes. We're missing key moments/elements in Huntress's (YO) life. But we've already got a lot of information (Gotham Knights, Black Canary, BoP:Manhunt, Nightwing/Huntress, and much much more) to see Huntress character growth over the years and whatever Ivory's doing in a YO capacity should still maintain some semblence of characterizations.

[AlistairCrane]

A YO story rooted deeply in CFB. So far Ivory's managed to fill in some time gasp and explain more of Huntress's mafia family ties. And what a magnificent job she's done at that.

The Huntress I'm use to now and follow religiously now is the one in BoP. But Helena wasn't in her late 20's/30's in CFB, nor was she in her on-going Huntress series (even though I'm assuming we're to act like that series never existed, nor was she in Chuck Dixon's The Huntress mini-series or in Robin:The Cry For Huntress. Nor in her tenure in JLA before being kicked out by Batman. And Huntress doesn't live in a vacuum.

Ivory's not working with a character from a blank canvas. Motivations still should make sense. You can't just infuse whatever into a character that's existed for a while and say hey it's a YO so anything goes. We're missing key moments/elements in Huntress's (YO) life. But we've already got a lot of information (Gotham Knights, Black Canary, BoP:Manhunt, Nightwing/Huntress, and much much more) to see Huntress character growth over the years and whatever Ivory's doing in a YO capacity should still maintain some semblence of characterizations.

Two words: New Earth.

[Mia]

This issue was vast improvement over the last one. The last one felt alot like filler to me and was really a missed opportunity. Instead of page after page of showing that Angelo was/is a pig. The relationship between Helena and Tony should have been expounded upon.

The scene with Sal was very interesting. I found it interesting that the character had been introduced as an atheist but found God after he fell in love with a nun. I like what Helena had to say in that whole scene. It truly demonstrates that Helena is truly a moral woman who loves God. In HCFB she talked about being 'a nun on a holy quest', And the exchange in the church with Sal truly demonstrates her convictions and how important they are to her.


Oh and the feminist prattling was gone.

The biggest problem I have is with Helena's hyper-agressiveness. I do understand that she's young and angry. But I always found her as being a fiesty and dangerous Italian woman who if provoked would get in your face (think of Monica Bellucci in Tears of the Sun). However the characterisation in the book is more than a woman whose toes have been stepped on. She behaves like someone who is waiitng to pick up a fight. The behaviour with the designer (clearly Giorgio Armani) was way over the top, and just dumb.

I also agree with Alex about the dress thing. Helena always struck me as the kind of woman who liked to dress up and who would never leave the house looking frumpy. However I am looking to see that change in issues to come.

Anyway it was a vast improvement over the last issue.

[Binker]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)

HUNTRESS: YEAR ONE #3

Written by Ivory Madison
Art by Cliff Richards, Art Thibert and Norm Rapmund
Cover by Matthew Clark
Edited by Joan Hilty

PLOT:
Helena Bertinelli's vigilante attack on the shadowy cabal known as the Hand makes her a marked woman in Italy — just as a childhood mentor returns from the dead and inspires her to don the Huntress costume for the first time.

REVIEW:
When I spoke about the previous issue, it was more about the series and the writer as a whole. If that issue didn't get you into Ivory or this series, then I didn't know what will. At the end of the day, I didn't even care if there were even things in this comic series, now or later, that came before. The reason I was, and still am, on fire is all because how Ivory managed to write Helena: I felt for her. Her rage, her anger, everything about her all connects to her past and the present, and from those around her, and how they treated her. And it all came from the fact that she's a woman, and how women ere seen by these people that got me angry. All that fit so much well with the character, that how Ivory has been writing her, I can't imagine there is one person who couldn't get here, even if we're two issues in. Now, here is issue #3, and let's continue forth with the beginnings of Huntress!

Continuing where the last issue left off, the development of Helena's origin in this issue continues her revenge against those who murdered her family, her course to get all of her family inheritance, a villain of her appears, and she finally begins to wear her famous, if not infamous, costume. That villain, who murdered Helena's family, is Mandragora. Some might know him from "Justice League Unlimited", but he is from the comics, and specifically, from Helena's previous origins. While Ivory does continue writing the story very well, just like the first two issues, I have to admit, I didn't feel that "snap" that much here then before. I still liked it, so please no one think otherwise, but I felt that maybe there should've been more. Maybe it was because we had to get her to Mandragora as Huntress in full costume, I don't know.

Overall, this was an okay issue. There wasn't anything wrong with the art, Ivory still did well with her well-written story, but it was because I didn't get that "snap" issue #1-2 had. Hopefully, the final three will keep the promise they have in the solicits, as that's when Huntress is in (or maybe she already is in from this issue) Gotham and she meets Batman and his Bat-Family, so that should be all good. But all in all, the first three issues have been all good on this series. But "okay" seems fitting for issue #3.

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: Helena's first meeting with Bruce Wayne!

[Alexx1]

Here are some other things I loved or just noticed I wanted to discuss with everyone but didn't include in the review to prevent spoiling.

---I don't get why the priest is down in the first scene. Helena says she can't bring herself to hitting a priest but later he's on the floor. He does open an eye and move (was he faking?) then she smacks him upside his head. Huh? I got confused there. What's that all about?

---I think it was Batman who put a call to the guards in issue #2 to release her. That's just my gut. The two panels that looked like a surveillance camera (issue #2), the immediate co-operation of the guard and now i this issue Batman is still keeping an eye on Helena. Also, a lot of crime families are moving to Gotham so it would make sense that he's in Italy to investigate and keep tabs on the whole thing. What do you think?

---Another thing I loved about the dialog between Sal and Helena was that it underscored several other themes. Impossible love, and sacrifice. I also really liked the setting of the confessional, it paralleled the confessional nature of their conversation. Very appropriate.

---How 'bout that costume? Smoking! That's how you draw a large breasted woman in a skin tight costume without it looking dumb. I love that costume design! And the final line? "wanna know how it ends, Mandragora?" W00T!



1. Yeah I don't know what was going on with that priest dialogue. I think it was just poor excecution. I agree it was off. Plus it was poor motivation. I don't think for a second Huntress would care if that was a "man of god" or not. He was an obstacle in her way and so I don't think for a minute she wouldn't have taking him out.

2. I don't know how the Batman situation is going to play out. Helena was a teenager, 16, when she first laid eyes on Batman in CFB. I don't know how Ivory's going to write/change that encounter. Is she going to make it a later encounter as Helena's going back to Gotham at 21? Will this be the first time or is she rewritten Helena's second encounter. I'm clueless there. But it would be a stretch for me to think that Batman has been keeping up with Helena all these years. Ivory's already changed a few things, like Sal told Helena Mandragora authorized the hit on her family when in CFB, Don Cassemento (Helena's real father) told her Mandragora ordered the hit. So all we can do is sit back and wait.

3. Sal and Helena's conversation and time together was priceless. Really the highlight of this issue for me. I don't know what the plans are for Sal. I hope he survives Huntress YO. It would be nice to see him guest in BoP from time to time. I like how Sal grounds Helena and it would just be cool to see they've continued their relationship, especially as Huntress has matured and shown growth over the last year or so as a member of the team.

4. Yeah it was awesome to see Helena don the Huntress costume for the first time. She looked darn good in it too!

[juggling man]

Yeah it was awesome to see Helena don the Huntress costume for the first time. She looked darn good in it too!

And that's more important to me than you may think. There's so much dumb, vapid looking women in comics that having a gorgeous voluptuous woman look imposing instead of coy or whatever is such a refreshing change for me! This is the real sexy to me. I find confidence and strength way more sexy than anything else.

[Alexx1]

I wonder what Helena has done with that 3 billion dollars over the years. I could definitely see Huntress involved in some Philanthropy/Humanitarian work involving children.

It would be neat if BoP expounds upon it a little. I like it when writers insert material other writers can pick up and run with.

[WorstThingUS]

A YO story rooted deeply in CFB. So far Ivory's managed to fill in some time gasp and explain more of Huntress's mafia family ties. And what a magnificent job she's done at that.

The Huntress I'm use to now and follow religiously now is the one in BoP. But Helena wasn't in her late 20's/30's in CFB, nor was she in her on-going Huntress series (even though I'm assuming we're to act like that series never existed, nor was she in Chuck Dixon's The Huntress mini-series or in Robin:The Cry For Huntress. Nor in her tenure in JLA before being kicked out by Batman. And Huntress doesn't live in a vacuum.

We've seen no evidence of The Huntress' time in the JLA, Robin or her own mini being retconned away. In fact her near murder of Prometheus in JLA was pretty much explained by the fury we've seen here. I haven't read the first mini in years, so I'd have to go back and see how it conflicts with what we know now.

Ivory's not working with a character from a blank canvas. Motivations still should make sense. You can't just infuse whatever into a character that's existed for a while and say hey it's a YO so anything goes. We're missing key moments/elements in Huntress's (YO) life. But we've already got a lot of information (Gotham Knights, Black Canary, BoP:Manhunt, Nightwing/Huntress, and much much more) to see Huntress character growth over the years and whatever Ivory's doing in a YO capacity should still maintain some semblence of characterizations.

I'm with AlistairCrane in that this is not The Huntress we know, but the seeds of her. Given her anger and constant state of rebellion against patriarchal values, I can see the dress thing becoming part of her evolution. Somewhere down the line we might see just when she lost her resentment of it and embraced it. I mean who is ever the same person at 30 that they are at 20? It would actually make more sense if she didn't like heels. Heels are painful, hard to walk in, cause lower back problems and pretty much exist to make women's legs and butts look better to men. This angry person is not going to hobble herself for a dude and dresses do none of these things.

Two words: New Earth.

Sadly, this will probably come into play for that lawyer thing I mentioned before.

As for the costume. We have yet to see if Ivory has retconned away the first meeting of Batman and Helena when she was sixteen. I hope we haven't. I like the Bat-connection and would be sad to see it go. As Cry For Blood showed, It lends another dimension to their conflict. Without it she's just another vigilante. With it, she's a vigilante whose existence he's somewhat responsible for because he showed her way to follow.

I enjoyed this issue, but add me to the list of people experiencing "Mafia fatigue." Year one should show us her first adventures in superhero realm as well and we need to get to it. The series is half over and we're still doing the part of The Godfather where Michael is in exile in Italy.

[pariah-1972]

I can't see Batman being the inspiration for Helena in this series
since she has already become the Huntress and she is already hardcore into this feminist view and taking cues from a man probably wouldn't make much sense.

The feminist angle is starting to get a bit heavy handed at times but she is a young bull-headed young adult so i can excuse it away.

I also like to see the seeds of her issues with catholicism all around in these three issues.

I'm not really crazy about year one stories but this will do quite nicely if you pretend that Cry for Blood hasn't happened or it happened somewhere else.

otherwise i cant see how you can correlate the two.

[juggling man]

I'm hoping that Huntress becomes less Batman connected. Reason being that I don't really like the "bat-family". I prefer characters that are independent. I'm not big on off-shoot characters. I like character interactions but I like when characters are fully formed independently.

[pariah-1972]

I'm hoping that Huntress becomes less Batman connected. Reason being that I don't really like the "bat-family". I prefer characters that are independent. I'm not big on off-shoot characters. I like character interactions but I like when characters are fully formed independently.I think i can agree with that since she has now grown out his shadow and is field leader of her own team and has grudgingly earned Batmans respect.

[Alexx1]

We've seen no evidence of The Huntress' time in the JLA, Robin or her own mini being retconned away. In fact her near murder of Prometheus in JLA was pretty much explained by the fury we've seen here. I haven't read the first mini in years, so I'd have to go back and see how it conflicts with what we know now.

'm with AlistairCrane in that this is not The Huntress we know, but the seeds of her. Given her anger and constant state of rebellion against patriarchal values, I can see the dress thing becoming part of her evolution. Somewhere down the line we might see just when she lost her resentment of it and embraced it. I mean who is ever the same person at 30 that they are at 20? It would actually make more sense if she didn't like heels. Heels are painful, hard to walk in, cause lower back problems and pretty much exist to make women's legs and butts look better to men. This angry person is not going to hobble herself for a dude and dresses do none of these things.

Sadly, this will probably come into play for that lawyer thing I mentioned before.

.

What? I've not said Huntress YO conflicts with what we've seen. I clearly stated Huntress YO was deeply rooted in CFB. And we have evidence of Huntress growth and character in those stories/issues I mentioned. So don't waste you time doing back to see. Now what I said was this whole Huntress not liking dresses is forced and foreign and not Helena Bertinelli. I don't have the energy to get back into it. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the dress thing. My focus is now on Huntress Year One #4 when it comes out. But as I stated before, I'm reading to see if Ivory is the right person to right a Huntress on-going. I have no interest in reading an on-going that's bent more towards Helena Wayne or Batwoman for that matter. That's just how I feel. If she's enormared more with them (which I've always suspected anyways) fine. But Helena Bertinelli is good enough for me and I want a writer who wants to write Helena Bertinelli and endear her to fans.

[WorstThingUS]

I can't see Batman being the inspiration for Helena in this series
since she has already become the Huntress and she is already hardcore into this feminist view and taking cues from a man probably wouldn't make much sense.

Helena first meets Batman at 16. She's already 20 in Year One, so his inspiration has already occurred.

I'm not really crazy about year one stories but this will do quite nicely if you pretend that Cry for Blood hasn't happened or it happened somewhere else.

otherwise i cant see how you can correlate the two.

But this is almost rooted entirely in Cry For Blood.

[WorstThingUS]

What? I've not said Huntress YO conflicts with what we've seen. I clearly stated Huntress YO was deeply rooted in CFB. And we have evidence of Huntress growth and character in those stories/issues I mentioned. So don't waste you time doing back to see. Now what I said was this whole Huntress not liking dresses is forced and foreign and not Helena Bertinelli. I don't have the energy to get back into it. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the dress thing. My focus is now on Huntress Year One #4 when it comes out. But as I stated before, I'm reading to see if Ivory is the right person to right a Huntress on-going. I have no interest in reading an on-going that's bent more towards Helena Wayne or Batwoman for that matter. That's just how I feel. If she's enormared more with them (which I've always suspected anyways) fine. But Helena Bertinelli is good enough for me and I want a writer who wants to write Helena Bertinelli and endear her to fans.

I misunderstood. What you were saying was "Helena wasn't 20 in blah, blah, blah" whereas I read she wasn't in them at all, which seemed strange to me.

I love the irony of this desired disassociation from Batman and the E-2 Huntress when she doesn't exist but for them. Every writer and editor for the last 20 years since crisis hasn't made Batman a part of her existence because it doesn't matter. Without him as her "spiritual father" she's just another vigilante and I for one wouldn't be here if not for his connection. It's the added flavor that sets her apart.

[Alexx1]

I love the irony of this desired disassociation from Batman and the E-2 Huntress when she doesn't exist but for them. Every writer and editor for the last 20 years since crisis hasn't made Batman a part of her existence because it doesn't matter. Without him as her "spiritual father" she's just another vigilante and I for one wouldn't be here if not for his connection. It's the added flavor that sets her apart.

I agree removing Batman's connection from Huntress or trying to disassociate the two is a mistake. I don't like it that we haven't had more interaction between the two, more mentoring, more acceptance and understanding on both their parts, and that it's not a priority to DC. And I like the irony there as well. But to me that's where it should STOP. Helena Bertinelli is her OWN character.

[pariah-1972]

Helena first meets Batman at 16. She's already 20 in Year One, so his inspiration has already occurred.



But this is almost rooted entirely in Cry For Blood.But She hasn't seen Batman in person as far as know.

[Alexx1]

I can't see Batman being the inspiration for Helena in this series
since she has already become the Huntress and she is already hardcore into this feminist view and taking cues from a man probably wouldn't make much sense.

The feminist angle is starting to get a bit heavy handed at times but she is a young bull-headed young adult so i can excuse it away.

I also like to see the seeds of her issues with catholicism all around in these three issues.

I'm not really crazy about year one stories but this will do quite nicely if you pretend that Cry for Blood hasn't happened or it happened somewhere else.

otherwise i cant see how you can correlate the two.

I guess we can only wait to see what Ivory's got in store with Helena's encounter with Batman. I'm interested in which encounter she's talking about that she says she tinkered with. Will it be the encounter Huntress had at 16 in CFB or the encounter she had when she went back to Gotham after her schooling. Or is she completely rectonning it.

But up until this point Ivory's story has fit nicely with CFB. She's simply giving us a lot more complexity to Huntress's character, inner thoughts, and motivations than what we got in CFB while filling in some time gasp. And she's only tinkered with a few things. We can assume to know why Helena and Monica's relationship in CFB was so luke-warm and antagonist from the events in Huntress YO with Nino Angelos. I mean Huntress slapped the crap out of Monica in CFB (that was one of my personal favorite Huntress moments. It was just a very Huntress thing to do). I now like to think that as pay back for the slap she endured by Tomasi for Monica's lie on her. Also, Huntress knowing in Italy, Mandragora put the hit on her family, where in CFB she didn't know till her return to Gotham and Don Cassemento told her. Which brings up another issue. Will Don Cassemento be addressed or not? If not does that mean Franco Bertinelli her actual father and their changing that again. I guess time will tell.

[pariah-1972]

I guess we can only wait to see what Ivory's got in store with Helena's encounter with Batman. I'm interested in which encounter she's talking about that she says she tinkered with. Will it be the encounter Huntress had at 16 in CFB or the encounter she had when she went back to Gotham after her schooling. Or is she completely rectonning it.

But up until this point Ivory's story has fit nicely with CFB. She's simply giving us a lot more complexity to Huntress's character, inner thoughts, and motivations than what we got in CFB while filling in some time gasp. And she's only tinkered with a few things. We can assume to know why Helena and Monica's relationship in CFB was so luke-warm and antagonist from the events in Huntress YO with Nino Angelos. I mean Huntress slapped the crap out of Monica in CFB (that was one of my personal favorite Huntress moments. It was just a very Huntress thing to do). I now like to think that as pay back for the slap she endured by Tomasi for Monica's lie on her. Also, Huntress knowing in Italy, Mandragora put the hit on her family, where in CFB she didn't know till her return to Gotham and Don Cassemento told her. Which brings up another issue. Will Don Cassemento be addressed or not? If not does that mean Franco Bertinelli her actual father and their changing that again. I guess time will tell.Wow you sure do know your stuff :eek:

I am sort of Wondering how this fits in canon wise? is this just expanding on cry for blood? and if it is what about the slight inconsistencies?

[WorstThingUS]

But She hasn't seen Batman in person as far as know.

Correct. As of yet, there's been no confirmation nor a denial of the incident when she was 16. As I said, I hope it stays. It's done very well in Cry For Blood. I think it's still in because of the "bat shadow" she leaves in this issue. Everybody see it?

[carabas]

Helena first seeing Batman happened five years before this story even starts, givel the writer's thoughts on Helena's inspiration, I kinda doubt that it is even going to be mentioned at all. Which is okay, since remains in continuity as long as nobody says that it didn't happen. Batman not being mentioned at all in this story doesn't change anything.

I was very predisposed to not liking this story at all. But after reading Ivory's interviews I could see that she really cared about the character and I picked up the first issue after all.
Cry For Blood is still the definite Huntress origin story for me, but I'm really liking Year One so far, and wouldn't mind seeing Ivory on Birds Of Prey at some point. She just needs to get her preaching a bit under control first.

Art's decent too. And as for any minor continuity mishaps, what about them?

[pariah-1972]

Helena first seeing Batman happened five years before this story even starts, givel the writer's thoughts on Helena's inspiration, I kinda doubt that it is even going to be mentioned at all. Which is okay, since remains in continuity as long as nobody says that it didn't happen. Batman not being mentioned at all in this story doesn't change anything.

I was very predisposed to not liking this story at all. But after reading Ivory's interviews I could see that she really cared about the character and I picked up the first issue after all.
Cry For Blood is still the definite Huntress origin story for me, but I'm really liking Year One so far, and wouldn't mind seeing Ivory on Birds Of Prey at some point. She just needs to get her preaching a bit under control first.

Art's decent too. And as for any minor continuity mishaps, what about them?I don't mind the continuity problems since they are minor and it would be pointless to do a year one and not deviate a little from cry for blood.

As far as her working on Birds of Prey i would love to see that but i wonder if shes even ready for that yet?
And she does need to get her preaching under control a little but shes still new so i'm willing to cut her some slack.

[carabas]

As far as her working on Birds of Prey i would love to see that but i wonder if shes even ready for that yet?
And she does need to get her preaching under control a little but shes still new so i'm willing to cut her some slack.Well, I did say "at some point". When Tony Bedard is done/gets kicked off/leaves due to excessive editorial interference for instance.

[juggling man]

I heard a quote that, to me is very true: "you make your own continuity". If you don't like something you just have to ignore it or quit buying the book or whatever. So, there's a minor difference. She doesn't like dresses. It's not like she's writing the Huntress as a coy seductress or something way off like that.

I maintain that it's not Helena's connection to Batman that makes her special. I think there's something much deeper about her character that is appealing. There are plenty of characters with a connection to Batman that are uninteresting to me. A connection to a major character does not a good character make.

As far as the preaching thing goes, all books preach something. People have opinions. You have to get used to that. It's life. Every writer has something to say. Nobody's complaining that Andreyko is opening a discussion on socio-economic bias in Manhunter. Nobody says anything of Fraction's quite obvious commentary on terrorism in "Invincible Iron Man". So why be upset that Madison is addressing, domestic violence, religion, gender issues or anything else for that matter. The fact that people are zoning in on the feminism when the book clearly deals with many other themes, to me betrays the reader's tunnel vision.

No matter what, all writers will rub someone the wrong way. Wether it be because of their world-view, treatment of character property, continuity issues and so on. You can't fault a writer for having a point of view. I think it's unfair to interpret having an opinion as bad writing. I'll go on the record and say that I seem to not agree with some of Madison's politics. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the good story she's writing.

At the end of the day, these are just stories and should be viewed as such. Not compared to everything else but judged on it's own.

That's my opinion. I expect yours to be different though. :)

[carabas]

The fact that people are zoning in on the feminism when the book clearly deals with many other themes, to me betrays the reader's tunnel vision.It's not that she's preaching (well, not to me anyway), but that she's doing in such an unsubtle and soapboxy manner.

[AlistairCrane]

It's not that she's preaching (well, not to me anyway), but that she's doing in such an unsubtle and soapboxy manner.

There's nothing soapboxy about it. In fact, everything she's saying is true, which I guess is why it makes so many men so uncomfortable. Men hate feminism.

[carabas]

There's nothing soapboxy about it. In fact, everything she's saying is true.I don't think soapbox means what you think it means. What Ivory says is undeniably true, it's jus tthat she says it in a soapboxy, preachy manner that take one right out of the story.

[pariah-1972]

I heard a quote that, to me is very true: "you make your own continuity". If you don't like something you just have to ignore it or quit buying the book or whatever. So, there's a minor difference. She doesn't like dresses. It's not like she's writing the Huntress as a coy seductress or something way off like that.

I maintain that it's not Helena's connection to Batman that makes her special. I think there's something much deeper about her character that is appealing. There are plenty of characters with a connection to Batman that are uninteresting to me. A connection to a major character does not a good character make.

As far as the preaching thing goes, all books preach something. People have opinions. You have to get used to that. It's life. Every writer has something to say. Nobody's complaining that Andreyko is opening a discussion on socio-economic bias in Manhunter. Nobody says anything of Fraction's quite obvious commentary on terrorism in "Invincible Iron Man". So why be upset that Madison is addressing, domestic violence, religion, gender issues or anything else for that matter. The fact that people are zoning in on the feminism when the book clearly deals with many other themes, to me betrays the reader's tunnel vision.

No matter what, all writers will rub someone the wrong way. Wether it be because of their world-view, treatment of character property, continuity issues and so on. You can't fault a writer for having a point of view. I think it's unfair to interpret having an opinion as bad writing. I'll go on the record and say that I seem to not agree with some of Madison's politics. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the good story she's writing.

At the end of the day, these are just stories and should be viewed as such. Not compared to everything else but judged on it's own.

That's my opinion. I expect yours to be different though. :)I don't have issues with her politics but i'm getting a little tired of her hitting us over the head with "huntress is a feminist" spiel as if wasn't already obvious to her fans.


The examples you sight from other books are slightly more subtle in my opinion.

[pariah-1972]

There's nothing soapboxy about it. In fact, everything she's saying is true, which I guess is why it makes so many men so uncomfortable. Men hate feminism.I don't have a problem with feminism at all,
I've always seen a strong feminist streak in Huntress even tho she fails at it sometimes just like she fails at being a good Catholic girl sometimes too.

Which makes her all the more human imo.

[Mia]

I guess we can only wait to see what Ivory's got in store with Helena's encounter with Batman. I'm interested in which encounter she's talking about that she says she tinkered with. Will it be the encounter Huntress had at 16 in CFB or the encounter she had when she went back to Gotham after her schooling. Or is she completely rectonning it..


I don't think she's tinkering with it. I just think that she's ignoring it, however writing it in a way that both situations could have happened.

But the notion that Helena became Huntress solely due to the fact that she saw Batman is false. Helena has always wanted to get back at the mob. It's just that she saw that the mob wasn't afraid of anyone. It was at the Christmas party when she saw the mobsters cowering before Batman that she saw how she could get back at them.

Some people need to get over their fixation with Helena Wayne. Helena Wayne is Batman's daughter. Helena Bertinelli isn't.


We can assume to know why Helena and Monica's relationship in CFB was so luke-warm and antagonist from the events in Huntress YO with Nino Angelos. I mean Huntress slapped the crap out of Monica in CFB (that was one of my personal favorite Huntress moments. It was just a very Huntress thing to do). .

Wasn't that the aunt who slapped Monica for being disrespectful to Helena (a Bertinelli?). I always thought that Monica was just your prototypical unattracive jealous fat girl who hated girls prettier than she was.


I also like to see the seeds of her issues with catholicism all around in these three issues...

That won't be happening in this book. Huntress was a devout Catholic even in CFB. Gail Simone in her retconning of the character decided to make her have problems with Catholicism. It's not in any other books. Helena threw her cross away at the end of CFB out of guilt (I asked Rucka and he confirmed it), she did not give up her faith. Gail Simone made that all up on her own.

[pariah-1972]

I don't think she's tinkering with it. I just think that she's ignoring it, however writing it in a way that both situations could have happened.

But the notion that Helena became Huntress solely due to the fact that she saw Batman is false. Helena has always wanted to get back at the mob. It's just that she saw that the mob wasn't afraid of anyone. It was at the Christmas party when she saw the mobsters cowering before Batman that she saw how she could get back at them.

Some people need to get over their fixation with Helena Wayne. Helena Wayne is Batman's daughter. Helena Bertinelli isn't.



Wasn't that the aunt who slapped Monica for being disrespectful to Helena (a Bertinelli?). I always thought that Monica was just your prototypical unattracive jealous fat girl who hated girls prettier than she was.



That won't be happening in this book. Huntress was a devout Catholic even in CFB. Gail Simone in her retconning of the character decided to make her have problems with Catholicism. It's not in any other books. Helena threw her cross away at the end of CFB out of guilt (I asked Rucka and he confirmed it), she did not give up her faith. Gail Simone made that all up on her own.But shes a devout catholic who sometimes wears revealing clothing and kills people.

I'm not sure the pope would approve of her methods:wink:

[Mia]

But shes a devout catholic who sometimes wears revealing clothing and kills people:

Who has Huntress ever killed? Give me the book title and issue number.


I'm not sure the pope would approve of her methods:wink:

Actually I am sure that he would approve that she risks her life in standing against others who prey on the weak. Just like many Catholics who serve their countries in military service.

[AlistairCrane]

I don't think soapbox means what you think it means. What Ivory says is undeniably true, it's jus tthat she says it in a soapboxy, preachy manner that take one right out of the story.

No it doesn't. At least not for me.

[carabas]

Who has Huntress ever killed? Give me the book title and issue number.Her father. Cry For Blood #6.

[Alexx1]

But the notion that Helena became Huntress solely due to the fact that she saw Batman is false. Helena has always wanted to get back at the mob. It's just that she saw that the mob wasn't afraid of anyone. It was at the Christmas party when she saw the mobsters cowering before Batman that she saw how she could get back at them.

Some people need to get over their fixation with Helena Wayne. Helena Wayne is Batman's daughter. Helena Bertinelli isn't.

I couldn't agree more!!!


Wasn't that the aunt who slapped Monica for being disrespectful to Helena (a Bertinelli?). I always thought that Monica was just your prototypical unattracive jealous fat girl who hated girls prettier than she was.

I'll have to go check. I thought it was Helena. As far as Monica goes, she may be those things you've mentioned but I still like to think in large part her problem with Helena was much deeper than that. That she always hated herself for being weak and afarid to fight back. Qualities that she's seen Helena never suffered from. The easiest thing is to project hate onto Helena when she really hates herself especially in lue of the events in Huntress YO.

Who has Huntress ever killed? Give me the book title and issue number.

I don't see how one could not lay Cassemento's death fully on Huntress's tally sheet. She might not have pulled the trigger but she set him up for ambush knowing the out-come. She was in full control of that situation, manipulating and masterminding it so that Tomaso killed Cassemento and then took the fall for it. I don't know if that's going to be rectonned though with YO.

And she did kill in Cavalieri's The Huntress. I can't remember which issue, one of the ealier ones. Though I'm not sure anything that occured in that series still applies.

[pariah-1972]

thanks guys :smile:

[WorstThingUS]

Some people need to get over their fixation with Helena Wayne. Helena Wayne is Batman's daughter. Helena Bertinelli isn't.



I couldn't agree more!!!

Then someone had best alert Ivory Madison who is making Helena Bertinelli back into a lawyer to be more like Helena Wayne. And she is his spiritual daughter as every writer and editor has made clear for the last 20 years and it's because of Helena Wayne. E2 Huntress will always be pertinent to E1 Huntress because without her E1 does not exist. HB was created because HW had such a fanbase, not because someone had an idea about a mob orphan turned superhero and this was a good way to develop it. Hell, she's not even the first angry Italian in superhero comics taking on the mob because of a family massacre. That honor belongs to The Punisher---who'd wonder why she's not offing people and the angrier we're shown HB to be, the stranger that becomes. Hopefully, the remainder of the series will demonstrate why she doesn't cross that line.

Speaking of murder, I'd also like to see something about her hypocrisy regarding Sal who has undoubtedly created a few orphans himself.

[Alexx1]

You keep saying Ivory Madison's going to make Helena Bertinelli a lawyer as if it's set in stone. That seems very short-sighted. First off, we don't know whether they'll be a Huntress on-going or if she'll write it. Tony Bedard on his forum has said he's run on BoP will feature more of Helena in her day job as a teacher. What profession Huntress maintains or not is ultimately up to DC.

Speaking of murder, I'd also like to see something about her hypocrisy regarding Sal who has undoubtedly created a few orphans himself.

As for Sal's murders I don't believe Huntress has been hypocritical. I can see Huntress rationalizing Sal's a victim of his family as well. But more important to me, she's simply choosen to love and accept him unconditionally and I think theres' a difference. That's the power of their relationship.

[WorstThingUS]

You keep saying Ivory Madison's going to make Helena Bertinelli a lawyer as if it's set in stone. That seems very short-sighted. First off, we don't know whether they'll be a Huntress on-going or if she'll write it. Tony Bedard on his forum has said he's run on BoP will feature more of Helena in her day job as a teacher. What profession Huntress maintains or not is ultimately up to DC.

I say it because she said she was going to do it. It remains to be seen if DC lets her, but that was the plan.


As for Sal's murders I don't believe Huntress has been hypocritical. I can see Huntress rationalizing Sal's a victim of his family as well. But more important to me, she's simply choosen to love and accept him unconditionally and I think theres' a difference. That's the power of their relationship.

No, your reasons for your hypocrisy don't change the fact that it's hypocrisy. Sal was an assassin working for the same type of people who murdered her family and are making her life hell in this mini.

[Alexx1]

No, your reasons for your hypocrisy don't change the fact that it's hypocrisy.

Wow, WorstThingUs. Now you're calling me a hypocrite. I think you need to calm the freak down. I thought you were sincere in wanting to discuss Huntress possible motivations in dealing with Sal's actions. I gave you an answer I sincerely believe and there's nothing hypocritical about it. If you can't keep it non-personal than I won't bothering addressing your post anymore.

[WorstThingUS]

Wow, WorstThingUs. Now you're calling me a hypocrite. I think you need to calm the freak down. I thought you were sincere in wanting to discuss Huntress possible motivations in dealing with Sal's actions. I gave you an answer I sincerely believe and there's nothing hypocritical about it. If you can't keep it non-personal than I won't bothering addressing your post anymore.

"Your" as in "Helena." How could you possibly be a hypocrite in this?

[reflecto]

This was another great issue in this excellent mini. I would love to see Ivory Madison do a lot more work for DC.
Someone mentioned "feminist prattling" in this series. There's been none. The issues that Madison is addressing in this book are real life issues. People do discuss these issues. They affect people's lives and I love it that Madison is using them to shape Huntress' origins.

[Alexx1]

I missunderstood your target WorstThingsUs. That second "your" still reads weird but I okay. I'll just subtitute Helena there....

Sal was her protector when she felt she had no one. He's been her teacher, confidant, and brother. However one wants to define his methods, he was the one that instilled in her a level of self-assurity and she is a strong woman today due to Sal's influence over her. Hyprocrisy or not, he's got a strong, emotional hold over Helena and she's not going to turn her back on him.

[juggling man]

It's just a story folks.:smile:

[WorstThingUS]

I missunderstood your target WorstThingsUs. That second "your" still reads weird but I okay. I'll just subtitute Helena there....

Sal was her protector when she felt she had no one. He's been her teacher, confidant, and brother. However one wants to define his methods, he was the one that instilled in her a level of self-assurity and she is a strong woman today due to Sal's influence over her. Hyprocrisy or not, he's got a strong, emotional hold over Helena and she's not going to turn her back on him.

I understand that, but given her resentment of the mob there should be some conflict here and we've seen none.

[Alexx1]

I understand that, but given her resentment of the mob there should be some conflict here and we've seen none.

I get you need to see some more internal conflict and so I understand and respect that.

I guess I understand from her perspective, she feels he's all she's got left. In her mind after him, she's completely alone. And whether right or wrong, Helena doesn't lump Sal in with the rest of them and I can understand giving the nature of their relationship, so from my view I don't see where there's a confict or need for one in her head and heart where he's concerned.

[juggling man]

That contradiction was addressed in issue #2.

"My understanding of the man as my hero didn't allow him to be the villain in someone else's story." - Helena

[pariah-1972]

Ok you guys are confusing me now Sal is the mentor that is now a priest right?
what has he ever done to anyone i didn't think he did anything mob related?

I must have missed something.
:confused:

[Alexx1]

That contradiction was addressed in issue #2.

"My understanding of the man as my hero didn't allow him to be the villain in someone else's story." - Helena

Exactly! Thanks for bringing that into the conversation. And as I've said there's no room in her head or heart for confict because she simply doesn't see him as she see the others.

[Alexx1]

Ok you guys are confusing me now Sal is the mentor that is now a priest right?
what has he ever done to anyone i didn't think he did anything mob related?

I must have missed something.
:confused:

Sal is an assassian that worked for the mob.

Helena's uncle Tommy sent her to live with his family, the Asaro's, in Italy after her family was killed. Sal is her cousin who took her under his wing. They had a big brother little sister type of relationship. Sal and his father Nicola worked for Mandagroa (the Italian mob boss) who ordered the hit on the Bertinelli clan. The Asaro farm was raided in Cry For Blood. Sal and Nicola were arrested then Huntress was sent off to school. If you've never read Huntress Cry For Blood, check it out as well. It's not imperative reading at all to understand anything but it is good.

[WorstThingUS]

That contradiction was addressed in issue #2.

"My understanding of the man as my hero didn't allow him to be the villain in someone else's story." - Helena

I'd forgotten about that. She's in willful denial. Okay. I get that.

[pariah-1972]

Sal is an assassian that worked for the mob.

Helena's uncle Tommy sent her to live with his family, the Asaro's, in Italy after her family was killed. Sal is her cousin who took her under his wing. They had a big brother little sister type of relationship. Sal and his father Nicola worked for Mandagroa (the Italian mob boss) who ordered the hit on the Bertinelli clan. The Asaro farm was raided in Cry For Blood. Sal and Nicola were arrested then Huntress was sent off to school. If you've never read Huntress Cry For Blood, check it out as well. It's not imperative reading at all to understand anything but it is good.I read it once it's somewhere around here i just gotta find it again and re-read it.
And thanks for catching me up on all that, i have a tendency to forget all these faceless people in the mafia for some reason.:redface:

[juggling man]

It's also shown in a flashback in issue #2 of this series. Sal gets arrested for doing mob stuff.

[juggling man]

check this

http://cdn4.libsyn.com/wordballoon/WBandreyko08.mp3?nvb=20080617051456&nva=20080618051456&t=0af850596a2137175ae0d

andreyko is quite clear that he wants to deal quite heavily in social issues in Manhunter. That's one of the reasons I'm buying the book.

[carabas]

And when Andreyko takes out half a page or so to tell us how it is nearly impossible for a black man to get a fair trial, even though this has little or no bearing on the plot, I'll call him out on preaching too. But that is not what he does. He is writing a story about a major social issue, he has made the issue the plot. This is something entirely different from Ivory who is writing a Year One Bat-vigilante origin story and then peppers it with tidbits from feminist lore. She's like the Brian K. Vaughn from a few years ago, back when he couldn't help but litter his otherwise excellent scripts with pointles bits of trivia.

[juggling man]

You should "call out" Alan Moore on V for Vendetta for practically being an anarchist handbook or Watchmen being an overt commentary on Nixon era politics.

Carabas, the feminist issues are "part of the plot" in this mini. Helena was brought up by an abusive father, has witnessed many situations in which women were oppressed and thus has developed a world view that is feminist leaning. To me it's very simple and clear. But hey, you're not me.:smile:

[juggling man]

Not really but Alex, you mentioned you would like to see Madison on Batwoman. Where else do you think she would do well?

[Alexx1]

Not really but Alex, you mentioned you would like to see Madison on Batwoman. Where else do you think she would do well?

I don't know man. Any title I presently read, I'm content with the writing attached, so I wouldn't want them off to put her on. I do wonder if she could have brought anything to a title like Catwoman had it still been around. I'd definitely like to see her on something else after this though. I've got minor issues with certain things (that I think more than anything can be attributed to her inexperience as a comic writer) who doesn't. But she's got a lot of talent and she can write and the only way she'll get better at writing comics is to keep writing them. Huntress YO has been an exceptional story so far. And just to think we haven't even seen Batman, Catwoman, or Batgirl yet and it's been this good.

[pariah-1972]

I don't know man. Any title I presently read, I'm content with the writing attached, so I wouldn't want them off to put her on. I do wonder if she could have brought anything to a title like Catwoman had it still been around. I'd definitely like to see her on something else after this though. I've got minor issues with certain things (that I think more than anything can be attributed to her inexperience as a comic writer) who doesn't. But she's got a lot of talent and she can write and the only way she'll get better at writing comics is to keep writing them. Huntress YO has been an exceptional story so far. And just to think we haven't even seen Batman, Catwoman, or Batgirl yet and it's been this good.The art is most excellent as well.

[juggling man]

She might be good on a Renee Montoya book...
Or any other street level character. Batman, Nightwing, Robin. Maybe even an Azrael re-launch?

In any case, if it has Ivory Madison written on the top left, I'll give it a try.

[Alexx1]

She might be good on a Renee Montoya book...


I hadn't thought about that one. That might actually work right there.

[juggling man]

But not just female characters. She could write guys too. Actually I'd like to see Azrael come back.

[Alexx1]

Here are Huntress's YO May's sales numbers:

110 20.89 $2.99 DC Huntress Year One 1 23,367

117 18.74 $2.99 DC Huntress Year One 2 20,962


http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16836

[pariah-1972]

Here are Huntress's YO May's sales numbers:

110 20.89 $2.99 DC Huntress Year One 1 23,367

117 18.74 $2.99 DC Huntress Year One 2 20,962


http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16836

Good numbers or no?

[Alexx1]

Good numbers or no?

They're actually better than I thought. I would have predicted maybe 18,000-19,000s'. I think they're fine considering no Batman, no any other character (ie. Catwoman, Batgirl) has surfaced. I hope for an increase once those other characters begin to show up but I don't know trends. I thought each issue typically declines, so who knows. I'm thinking a little increase Junes and Julys sales #'s will be in order.

[juggling man]

That's good. Particularly considering it's event season. I would interpret those figures as better than standard.

Here are other books that are selling in the 20K ball park:

04/2008: Birds of Prey #117 — 22,181

04/2008: Gotham Underground #7 of 9 — 23,525 (of which Mark Oliver Frisch (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/06/10/dc-month-to-month-sales-april-2008/) says: "If you forget that the book was billed as a Countdown spin-off, these are decent numbers.")

04/2008: Fables #72 — 23,853

04/2008: Batman: Death Mask #1 of 4 — 20,217 (this has Batman in the title which always helps sales, something Huntress doesn't have)

[pariah-1972]

That's good. Particularly considering it's event season. I would interpret those figures as better than standard.

Here are other books that are selling in the 20K ball park:

04/2008: Birds of Prey #117 — 22,181

04/2008: Gotham Underground #7 of 9 — 23,525 (of which Mark Oliver Frisch (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/06/10/dc-month-to-month-sales-april-2008/) says: "If you forget that the book was billed as a Countdown spin-off, these are decent numbers.")

04/2008: Fables #72 — 23,853

04/2008: Batman: Death Mask #1 of 4 — 20,217 (this has Batman in the title which always helps sales, something Huntress doesn't have)I'm reading this review on silver bullet that says 20k is poor:confused:

[carabas]

It's relative. 20 is magnificent for a Vertigo book, but rather poor for Wonder Woman. It is cautiously okay for a Huntress mini from a brandnew writer, provided sales don't drop too sharply in month two.

[juggling man]

Let's hope these figures are sufficient for DC to give Madison more work.

[juggling man]

there's also trade sales to be considered.

[Agent_Torpor]

Good numbers or no?

Well, considering Catwoman got canned with better numbers...

I'd say NO.

But who knows. BoP has been pulling in some horrid sales # as of late, but seems to be safe.

[juggling man]

But Catwoman slipped to those numbers from higher figures. The steady decline is what got Catwoman canned.

[pariah-1972]

Well, considering Catwoman got canned with better numbers...

I'd say NO.

But who knows. BoP has been pulling in some horrid sales # as of late, but seems to be safe.I hope this doesn't mean bad things for B.O.P:frown:

[Agent_Torpor]

But Catwoman slipped to those numbers from higher figures. The steady decline is what got Catwoman canned.

And Huntress is starting out with those numbers... Usually a premiere gets a nice little boost, esp. with the traditional marketing push.

[AlistairCrane]

20,000 for a character like Huntress is pretty damn good.

[juggling man]

That's what I mean. The Catwoman name already had quite a bit of clout. Huntress not so much. The 3k drop worries me a bit though. I hope sales bob back up a little with the last three issues that feature bigger name characters.

[juggling man]

A few comparisons to similar titles.

Metamorpho is a fair comparison. Similarly minor character in a year one mini. With a similar dip in sales but a slightly weaker opener.

10/2007: Metamorpho: Year One #1 of 6 — 20,699
10/2007: Metamorpho: Year One #2 of 6 — 18,502


Green Arrow Year One. A much more prominent character however.

07/2007: Year One #1 of 6 — 37,090
07/2007: Year One #2 of 6 — 32,222


Teen Titans: Year One. A bigger "event" that lost approximately a 6th of it's readers in two weeks. Huntress lost approximately an 8th (a slightly smaller decline).

01/2008: Teen Titans: Year One #1 of 6 — 43,057
02/2008: Teen Titans: Year One #2 of 6 — 35,761


My hunch is that these figures are not enough to get DC to give Huntress an on-going. As far as a new writer selling this much and getting more work I don't know. Do you guys know of a precedent that might apply here?

[WorstThingUS]

A few comparisons to similar titles.

Metamorpho is a fair comparison. Similarly minor character in a year one mini. With a similar dip in sales but a slightly weaker opener.

10/2007: Metamorpho: Year One #1 of 6 — 20,699
10/2007: Metamorpho: Year One #2 of 6 — 18,502


Green Arrow Year One. A much more prominent character however.

07/2007: Year One #1 of 6 — 37,090
07/2007: Year One #2 of 6 — 32,222


Teen Titans: Year One. A bigger "event" that lost approximately a 6th of it's readers in two weeks. Huntress lost approximately an 8th (a slightly smaller decline).

01/2008: Teen Titans: Year One #1 of 6 — 43,057
02/2008: Teen Titans: Year One #2 of 6 — 35,761


My hunch is that these figures are not enough to get DC to give Huntress an on-going. As far as a new writer selling this much and getting more work I don't know. Do you guys know of a precedent that might apply here?

Now what remains to be see is if the numbers change when Batman is on the cover. If they go up, my point will be proven. In a competitive market you can't just toss away a connection to one of the most famous characters ever. Batman didn't pop up in 12 books last month because he doesn't sell.

[juggling man]

I agree a connection to Batman is good for business. I'm not convinced it's the best thing creatively.

[AlistairCrane]

Huntress is less interesting when she's away from Batman/Gotham. That's one of the only bad things to come from her involvement with BoP.

[pariah-1972]

Huntress is less interesting when she's away from Batman/Gotham. That's one of the only bad things to come from her involvement with BoP.I disagree completely she is now a character who can stand on her own two feet and is being treated much better than when she was a "lone wolf" in the Batman books always whining and complaining.

[AlistairCrane]

I disagree, I prefer seeing her adventures in Gotham as a sort of outsider to the Batfamily. Different strokes..

[WorstThingUS]

Huntress is less interesting when she's away from Batman/Gotham. That's one of the only bad things to come from her involvement with BoP.

Actually it was still a part of her because BOP was based in Gotham. BOP even had a little bat symbol on the cover indicating it was part of the family of bat books.

[AlistairCrane]

Actually it was still a part of her because BOP was based in Gotham. BOP even had a little bat symbol on the cover indicating it was part of the family of bat books.

I'm well aware of that. But over the years both Helena and BoP have distanced themselves from Batman/Gotham.

[juggling man]

Different strokes..

yup, maybe it would have been helpful to say "in my opinion". Sometimes when a post is formulated in an non-subjective manner it can easily be interpreted as arbitrary.

[Mia]

I disagree completely she is now a character who can stand on her own two feet and is being treated much better than when she was a "lone wolf" in the Batman books always whining and complaining.


You’re serious? You think that Huntress stands on her own ‘two feet’ in BOP? That notion to me is an absolute joke.


When she was operating on her own in Gotham, she had dignity, self-respect and could look after herself. Whereas in BOP she’s been reduced to an idiot who runs to Oracle to solve simple problems, bursts into tears when her feelings are hurt and allows others to treat her like garbage. That to me isn’t a sign of standing on her own two feet. To me that’s not a sign of an incompetent looser.

Personally I am pleasantly surprised that HY1 has done as well as it has done given the hit to the characters reputation. I hope that once BOP is cancelled, Huntress is brought back to Gotham where she belongs.

[WorstThingUS]

I'm well aware of that. But over the years both Helena and BoP have distanced themselves from Batman/Gotham.

Not until #75 at the end of that horrible storyline that "killed" the Spoiler. The clocktower was destroyed and they left Gotham. In #86 they settled in Metropolis, an idea that was never properly utilized, not even under Gail.

[WorstThingUS]

You’re serious? You think that Huntress stands on her own ‘two feet’ in BOP? That notion to me is an absolute joke.


When she was operating on her own in Gotham, she had dignity, self-respect and could look after herself. Whereas in BOP she’s been reduced to an idiot who runs to Oracle to solve simple problems, bursts into tears when her feelings are hurt and allows others to treat her like garbage. That to me isn’t a sign of standing on her own two feet. To me that’s not a sign of an incompetent looser.

Personally I am pleasantly surprised that HY1 has done as well as it has done given the hit to the characters reputation. I hope that once BOP is cancelled, Huntress is brought back to Gotham where she belongs.

You obviously didn't see the Chuck Dixon mini that I dug out of the closet. I only have the first two issues, but she's a serious basket case in it. I'm a little surprised Chuck saw her that way.

[carabas]

I hope that once BOP is cancelled, Huntress is brought back to Gotham where she belongs.Well, that'll be fun. I can't say how much I miss the days when all Huntress constantly switched between practically begging acceptance from Batman and completely rejecting Batman. That got old real fast.

Right now, Huntress is one of the most accomplished and competent non-powered heroes in the DCU, and she owes that largely to Gail Simone.
It is telling that as soon as Black Canary got different writers, she immediately went from almost Batman-level ass-kicker to minor supporting cast member in a book with her name on the cover, and to be "leader" of the JLA in name only (with almost every decision she makes either being overturned by BAts, or simply ending in disaster).

Helena gets dropped from BoP, it's incompetence hell for her at best, sacrificial lamb and replacement by Helena Wayne at worst now that there is an Earth 2 again.

[pariah-1972]

You’re serious? You think that Huntress stands on her own ‘two feet’ in BOP? That notion to me is an absolute joke.


When she was operating on her own in Gotham, she had dignity, self-respect and could look after herself. Whereas in BOP she’s been reduced to an idiot who runs to Oracle to solve simple problems, bursts into tears when her feelings are hurt and allows others to treat her like garbage. That to me isn’t a sign of standing on her own two feet. To me that’s not a sign of an incompetent looser.

Personally I am pleasantly surprised that HY1 has done as well as it has done given the hit to the characters reputation. I hope that once BOP is cancelled, Huntress is brought back to Gotham where she belongs.I know you have had issues with the way she was portrayed in B.O.P for some reason.

But for me it was the start of getting to know her and becoming very interested in her to the point of researching all her other appearances before hand
and i very much think that Gail raised her up quite a bit she was finally able to deal with her issues with the mob and Batman finally gave her due respect.

She is now a capable field leader especially at the time when the cast was increasing and rotating quite a bit and noone ever questioned her authority.

The things your seeing are not things that i'm seeing at all.

[Mia]

I know you have had issues with the way she was portrayed in B.O.P for some reason.

But for me it was the start of getting to know her and becoming very interested in her to the point of researching all her other appearances before hand
and i very much think that Gail raised her up quite a bit she was finally able to deal with her issues with the mob and Batman finally gave her due respect.

She is now a capable field leader especially at the time when the cast was increasing and rotating quite a bit and noone ever questioned her authority.

The things your seeing are not things that i'm seeing at all.

Don’t know how you can miss them when they are right there in the book. Maybe you enjoy seeing her as a looser.

[pariah-1972]

Don’t know how you can miss them when they are right there in the book. Maybe you enjoy seeing her as a looser.Shes not a looser and i don't enjoy seeing her that way at all Mia.

Lets not make this personal ok?

[juggling man]

Yeah, it's just opinions.:smile: