Angel: After the Falll #8

[AlistairCrane]

The final part of the "First Night" arc. I got the Brian Miller cover. What cover did you get?



Part 1: Gwen

Gotta say, I don't like seeing precious pages being wasted on stupid guest-stars like Gwen who shouldn't be in this series. The art was nice, but I couldn't care less about the character or story. Rating: D-



Part 2: Civilians

The story itself is kind of neat, but the horrid art work took away from it. And again, pages are being wasted on one-off characters no one cares about. Rating: C



Part 3: Gunn

Finally, the story we've all been waiting for. From Gunn's skewed perspective, Angel forgets about/abandons him during the big battle after he's injured, and he's dragged off by a group of vampires and vamped. We learn they work below Wolfram and Hart's radar and have some sinister plan for Angel. My quips: Gunn is sired by a random one-off vamp whose name we don't even learn. I think it would've made more sense for Spike or Angel to vamp Gunn so he'd have a fighting chance in the battle. I'll give Lynch the benefit of the doubt this time and wait to see how this plays out. Rating: B.

And of course there is a Betta George intro page which just seems like so much filler to me. Grade: D.

Overall: C-.

[Exitmat]

I don't like seeing precious pages being wasted on stupid guest-stars like Gwen who shouldn't be in this series.

Care to actually give a reason why Gwen "shouldn't" be in the series? That's a pretty big statement to make without backing it up.

I also wasn't a big fan of the art in the civilians story.

First Night was fun but I'm really looking forward to getting back to the main AtF storyline with the next issue.

[AlistairCrane]

Care to actually give a reason why Gwen "shouldn't" be in the series? That's a pretty big statement to make without backing it up.

I also wasn't a big fan of the art in the civilians story.

First Night was fun but I'm really looking forward to getting back to the main AtF storyline with the next issue.

She appeared in only two episodes of the tv series and was a lame, insignificant character. That's why. Same goes for Nina--she should DEFINITELY not be around. If anything, Harmony should be back.

And FYI: statements don't always need to be "backed up". Some things just speak for themselves, and it's pretty clear without me making it explicit why Gwen shouldn't be around.

[rwe1138]

I loved how Gwen's male friend named Nate resembled a certain Browncoat actor. :wink:

[Exitmat]

She appeared in only two episodes of the tv series and was a lame, insignificant character. That's why. Same goes for Nina--she should DEFINITELY not be around. If anything, Harmony should be back.

And FYI: statements don't always need to be "backed up". Some things just speak for themselves, and it's pretty clear without me making it explicit why Gwen shouldn't be around.

If you want your opinion to be read as anything more than an underdeveloped lowbrow comment, then yes, despite what your narrow-minded viewpoint may be, you need to provide a reasoning behind your opinion if you want to actually discuss and debate an issue (which is the point of starting this thread, yes?). But throwing out a deflective argument like "because she's lame" and "it's pretty clear why" is just lazy.

When you learn how to express your opinions beyond subjective surface-level comments trying to be passed off as absolutes we'll have a really good discussion. Until then...

[AlistairCrane]

If you want your opinion to be read as anything more than an underdeveloped lowbrow comment, then yes, despite what your narrow-minded viewpoint may be, you need to provide a reasoning behind your opinion if you want to actually discuss and debate an issue (which is the point of starting this thread, yes?). But throwing out a deflective argument like "because she's lame" and "it's pretty clear why" is just lazy.

When you learn how to express your opinions beyond subjective surface-level comments trying to be passed off as absolutes we'll have a really good discussion. Until then...

I'm not interested in having a discussion if you disagree about Gwen. If you hate her as well, then I'll all for discussing it. If not..

[AlistairCrane]

Did anyone look at the preview for next issue at the end of the book? Nick Runge's art looks so crappy compared to what we saw in the Wes story last month! Colour me unimpressed.

[Gagglefrak]

I'm not interested in having a discussion if you disagree about Gwen. If you hate her as well, then I'll all for discussing it. If not..

Um. Okay. As long as you're being open-minded about it. :confused:

Seriously, though, Gwen's got just as much right to be at this party as anybody else. After all, while Lynch is writing these books, it's still Joss who's calling the plot shots. So presumably, he planned to bring Gwen back as a regular if the show had been picked up for Season 6 -- presumably because he had plans for her. And that's good enough for me. Plenty of characters in the Buffy-verse were relatively "insignificant" at first, but grew into bigger parts. Like Wesley.

Having said that, I'm kind of mixed about "First Night" as a whole. I held off thinking about it too much until I read the third issue, and now that I have ... I'm not sure I liked it. The patchwork nature of the narrative, along with the various (and not always good) art styles, left me a bit unsatisfied. There were a few nice moments in each issue, but not enough to carry the books for me. I expected to have less questions by the time the arc was over, but I actually walked away with more, some of which I'm not sure were intentional.

I would much rather have seen entire issues dedicated to one or two characters' experiences. There was something a bit disingenuous and artificial about separating everybody's stories, when the whole point of the series finale was the idea of them working as a team to take on the forces of evil. Move them to Hell, and suddenly that all goes away? Maybe. Anyway, I have faith that Whedon and Lynch can pull this all together again in the next few issues, and that maybe "First Night" will make more sense once I see the big picture. But speaking for right now, it didn't quite live up to my expectations.

[rexcase]

loved all three stories. the art in the civilians story wasn't my cup of tea, but the story was a nice insight.
the gwen story was great. i love seeing minor characters expanded on in ways that wouldn't be possible on the tv show. it's a nice treat for the fans.
the gunn story was interesting, but i feel like it brings up more questions than it answered. i get the feeling we're not being told the whole story here.
overall, great book.

[Schornforce]

I'm not interested in having a discussion if you disagree about Gwen. If you hate her as well, then I'll all for discussing it. If not..

...

...so the point of making this thread was so everyone could blindly agree with you about the issue?

Good work. :rolleyes:

[Taskmaster]

Got to say this was the worst issue so far, I couldn't stand the civilian story, the Gwen story was pretty pointless other than telling us that her powers are back, which we already knew, and the Gunn story gave us little to no info other than it was nobody special or previously known that turned Charlie-Boy, plus the Beta George thing was left without a resolution. Darn shame, they should've kept first night to two issues and let it go out on a high note, i'm still looking forward to Spike: First Night though!

[hoople head]

I think it would've made more sense for Spike or Angel to vamp Gunn so he'd have a fighting chance in the battle. I'll give Lynch the benefit of the doubt this time and wait to see how this plays out.

I'm with you on the fact that I don't like that it was just an anonymous vamp who sired Gunn, but I can't see Angel or Spike doing that. Since they both have souls, and have felt the pain of what it is like to have been without a soul and all of the unthinkable acts that one is capable of without one I think they'd both rather see Gunn die than see him like that. Besides which, I don't see how that would 'give him a fighting chance in the battle'. From what we've seen so far vamps don't 'turn' right away. After being turned they die a regular death and afterwards they are basically reborn. Not to mention the fact that they were all being swarmed by enemies so I doubt either spike or angel could have even taken the time to sire anyone or anything.

[AlistairCrane]

I'm with you on the fact that I don't like that it was just an anonymous vamp who sired Gunn, but I can't see Angel or Spike doing that. Since they both have souls, and have felt the pain of what it is like to have been without a soul and all of the unthinkable acts that one is capable of without one I think they'd both rather see Gunn die than see him like that. Besides which, I don't see how that would 'give him a fighting chance in the battle'. From what we've seen so far vamps don't 'turn' right away. After being turned they die a regular death and afterwards they are basically reborn. Not to mention the fact that they were all being swarmed by enemies so I doubt either spike or angel could have even taken the time to sire anyone or anything.

Angel sired that sailor in Season 5 pretty fast.