Does the Venom Suit still want to merge with Peter Parker?

[amazoniansrule]

I remember reading in one cup of joe maybe a couple ago,that the venom symbiote is destined to be with Parker.

So is it possible that in the upcoming,deadly ways to die arc. That the suit again tries to re-merge?

[BlackToe]

JQ said in regards to NWtD, no, but he did say that the symbiote would once agian be with Peter eventually. Although who's to say its in ASM? I personally want it in ASM. I originally thought Back in Black was going to have the symbiote reunite with Peter. But no, we got the crappy JMS story about cloth.

[Jim Thompson]

I remember reading in one cup of joe maybe a couple ago,that the venom symbiote is destined to be with Parker.

So is it possible that in the upcoming,deadly ways to die arc. That the suit again tries to re-merge?I don't know if they are planning to bring the symbiote back into Parker's life, but one can always hope -- provided they begin to move away from this whole 'the suit highlights one's aggressive and negative tendencies' take that has evolved over the course of time. I always thought that was a silly thing to do.

[BlackToe]

I don't know if they are planning to bring the symbiote back into Parker's life, but one can always hope -- provided they begin to move away from this whole 'the suit highlights one's aggressive and negative tendencies' take that has evolved over the course of time. I always thought that was a silly thing to do.

Yeah, they should'a stayed with the variation of the symbiote slowing affecting his personality and actions at a subtle level. Assimilating him slowly...like when he was sleeping. Not turn somebody into a darker version of themselves.

[Thursaiz]

If major events like Harry's death, The Other and the marriage didn't happen, can we assume that Peter never went to Secret Wars? Did he even meet with the symbiote in the same way?

Can someone tell me what the 'reverse' symbiote solicits are all about? I've been trying to keep BND to a week by week perspective...

[Tobias Drake]

I don't know if they are planning to bring the symbiote back into Parker's life, but one can always hope -- provided they begin to move away from this whole 'the suit highlights one's aggressive and negative tendencies' take that has evolved over the course of time. I always thought that was a silly thing to do.

I agree. It seems like they've been trying to demonize the symbiote in order to lionize Peter for getting rid of it. It started out as an alien that feeds on its host's emotions, and the writers seem hell-bent on turning it into Evil Incarnate. I hate Black and White stories.

[Jim Thompson]

Yeah, they should'a stayed with the variation of the symbiote slowing affecting his personality and actions at a subtle level. Assimilating him slowly...like when he was sleeping. Not turn somebody into a darker version of themselves.I don't even want it to be at that level. I never saw the suit as "assimilating" Peter -- more like it was co-existing with him.

[Jim Thompson]

If major events like Harry's death, The Other and the marriage didn't happen, can we assume that Peter never went to Secret Wars? Did he even meet with the symbiote in the same way?

Can someone tell me what the 'reverse' symbiote solicits are all about? I've been trying to keep BND to a week by week perspective...Secret War happened before the marriage, so my guess is the story remains completely uneffected by OMD.

[Jim Thompson]

I agree. It seems like they've been trying to demonize the symbiote in order to lionize Peter for getting rid of it. It started out as an alien that feeds on its host's emotions, and the writers seem hell-bent on turning it into Evil Incarnate. I hate Black and White stories.Another interesting change that has been jettisoned to maintain a status quo for the character.

Seems to be a pattern for Marvel's approach to Spider-Man.

[Rahul]

Well, the symbiote's motivations were like that of an ex-girlfriend, and Pete's currently single so......

[Darkhalen]

I don't even want it to be at that level. I never saw the suit as "assimilating" Peter -- more like it was co-existing with him.

same here, he just did not want to be a part of it.

[Jim Thompson]

same here, he just did not want to be a part of it.And even that was only his initial reaction to it. Over time, that might have changed.

[Darkhalen]

And even that was only his initial reaction to it. Over time, that might have changed.

Indeed, i mean if it had have merged with him, it may have not taken him out at night, i think the reason was because it did not want to leave him for very long periods of time, i think other then the night time trips the symbiote gave peter more pro's then con's.

[Jim Thompson]

Indeed, i mean if it had have merged with him, it may have not taken him out at night, i think the reason was because it did not want to leave him for very long periods of time, i think other then the night time trips the symbiote gave peter more pro's then con's.Certainly there would have been some interesting story options. What if the symbiote got jealous of whoever Parker's current love interest was? Does Parker have to consider the well being of the symbiote before he exposes himself to danger? Etc. etc.

[Darkhalen]

some fire based villains would have been near impossible to defeat and he would also have to deal with the other voice inside his head, it would certainly would have made for interesting stories.

[bjtrdff]

If major events like Harry's death, The Other and the marriage didn't happen, can we assume that Peter never went to Secret Wars? Did he even meet with the symbiote in the same way?

Can someone tell me what the 'reverse' symbiote solicits are all about? I've been trying to keep BND to a week by week perspective...


Oh they happened...just in a magically unexplained way that resulted in no changes!!

[Jim Thompson]

some fire based villains would have been near impossible to defeat and he would also have to deal with the other voice inside his head, it would certainly would have made for interesting stories.Fire/Sound based villains would have presented him not with just a physical challenge, but I new challenge in maintaining his secret identity as well.

And we haven't even really touched on the running out of webbing options symbiote stories never really were given an opportunity to explore.

[Tobias Drake]

some fire based villains would have been near impossible to defeat and he would also have to deal with the other voice inside his head, it would certainly would have made for interesting stories.

I don't think fire-based villains would have been any harder to defeat than they already are. The symbiote may be vulnerable to fire, but so is Peter.

I think the biggest problem with Peter keeping the symbiote indefinitely is that it might make him a bit too powerful. Bulletproofing his endurance and giving him a healing factor would turn him into Wolverine with Webs.

[Jim Thompson]

I don't think fire-based villains would have been any harder to defeat than they already are. The symbiote may be vulnerable to fire, but so is Peter.

I think the biggest problem with Peter keeping the symbiote indefinitely is that it might make him a bit too powerful. Bulletproofing his endurance and giving him a healing factor would turn him into Wolverine with Webs.Spider-Man already has a phenominal healing factor; and anyway, I don't quite see what you're driving at here. Also not sure what you're talking about in reference to additional endurance. Have I missed an update on the symbiote's capabilites somewhere?

[XPac]

I still recall the symbiote saving Peter in the bell tower even though Peter was trying to kill it... it was such a neat touch that made you sort of sympathize with it. You could hardly recognize the suit today.

I wouldn't at all be suprised if the suit didn't want off Scorpion... the guy's a loser.

I've always liked the black suit better so I sort of wish Peter would get the symbiote back permanently... but it ruins a perfect good villain in scoprion so that's never gonna happen. Though I always prefereed Brock to any of the other Venoms. I wouldn't mind at all if he got the suit back. Now sure how that would mess up TBolts though.

[XPac]

I don't think fire-based villains would have been any harder to defeat than they already are. The symbiote may be vulnerable to fire, but so is Peter.

I think the biggest problem with Peter keeping the symbiote indefinitely is that it might make him a bit too powerful. Bulletproofing his endurance and giving him a healing factor would turn him into Wolverine with Webs.

If you think about it though, the upgrades the symbiote gave him aren't that differenet than the upgrades he got in Disassembled and the Other. Course, marvel eventually got rid of those, so I guess the moral of the story is they don't want an upgraded Spiderman (which is fine... he's powerful enough).

[Darkhalen]

there was a lot of ground and directions to cover with a symbiote spider-man but i guess marvel never wanted him to be an uber hero, with villains who could not stand up to him.

[Jim Thompson]

there was a lot of ground and directions to cover with a symbiote spider-man but i guess marvel never wanted him to be an uber hero, with villains who could not stand up to him.Guess I never saw the symbiote as so significantly increasing his power-level that it would represent a problem. Spider-Man has lifted buildings without the symbiote, defeated Firelord without the symbiote. What previously non-existent power level would he attain with the symbiote?

[XPac]

there was a lot of ground and directions to cover with a symbiote spider-man but i guess marvel never wanted him to be an uber hero, with villains who could not stand up to him.

Spideys rogues gallery has so much depth and size though, that his power level is rarely really a problem. They could get away with powering him up if they wanted to.

Yeah, there's a few low end guys like Vulture... even with upgrades he was never too uber to tackle guys like Rhyno, Venom, and Sandman. Plus, his rogues have a funny way of tackling him 6 at a time.

That said, I do agree they like him roughly where he is. Class 10 strength with a level of speed and agility that makes him almost untouchable to anyone other than a true speedster gives him a pretty nice range as is.

I think the only problem comes when writers forgot that Spidey is suppossed to be metahumanly fast and agile. For whatever reason, writers tend to downgrade Spideys speed and agility to the level of any guy in the MU running around with a black belt.

[Jim Thompson]

I think the only problem comes when writers forgot that Spidey is suppossed to be metahumanly fast and agile. For whatever reason, writers tend to downgrade Spideys speed and agility to the level of any guy in the MU running around with a black belt.Whole-heartedly agree.

[XPac]

Guess I never saw the symbiote as so significantly increasing his power-level that it would represent a problem. Spider-Man has lifted buildings without the symbiote, defeated Firelord without the symbiote. What previously non-existent power level would he attain with the symbiote?

When Spidey had the symbiote it really didn't appear to be much of an upgrade. It was just a cool costume with a few handy tricks. For whatever reason, it barely upgraded Spideys physical abilities (if at all).

But when Brock got the suit, it vastly made increased Brocks strength and durability well beyond Spidey level. It also gave gave the ability to morph their body to some degree.

Spidey kinda got lowballed with the suit.

[Jim Thompson]

When Spidey had the symbiote it really didn't appear to be much of an upgrade. It was just a cool costume with a few handy tricks. For whatever reason, it barely upgraded Spideys physical abilities (if at all).

But when Brock got the suit, it vastly made increased Brocks strength and durability well beyond Spidey level. It also gave gave the ability to morph their body to some degree.

Spidey kinda got lowballed with the suit.I believe Brock actually takes a bit of time to explain how the suit augments his strength and such in ASM #300. I'll take a look this evening.

[Darkhalen]

Guess I never saw the symbiote as so significantly increasing his power-level that it would represent a problem. Spider-Man has lifted buildings without the symbiote, defeated Firelord without the symbiote. What previously non-existent power level would he attain with the symbiote?

i don't think it would increase drastically, but i think villains who pose a threat to him as his regular self would no longer present a problem while wearing the symbiote, i think it's more to do with him being able to defeat his own villains with ease then someone outside of his gallery of rouges.

but writers are never consistant with superheroes feats and strength's so it's hard to say where or what would happen.

[Jim Thompson]

i don't think it would increase drastically, but i think villains who pose a threat to him as his regular self would no longer present a problem while wearing the symbiote, i think it's more to do with him being able to defeat his own villains with ease then someone outside of his gallery of rouges.How so? What's the suit upgrading in him that makes what you're saying possible?

[Darkhalen]

How so? What's the suit upgrading in him that makes what you're saying possible?

well all i am trying to say and not very well by the looks of it, is that for instance Spider-man had trouble taking down Rhino, with the symbiote i belive he would have a better chance at beating him in an actual fight head on, i think it upgrades his strengh and stamina to a higher angle then before, i could be wrong if i am then i can scrap this.

[Jim Thompson]

well all i am trying to say and not very well by the looks of it, is that for instance Spider-man had trouble taking down Rhino, with the symbiote i belive he would have a better chance at beating him in an actual fight head on, i think it upgrades his strengh and stamina to a higher angle then before, i could be wrong if i am then i can scrap this.I don't know as you're wrong; I just never got the impression the suit worked like that (it was certainly never hinted at when Peter originally started wearing it, for example).

[XPac]

well all i am trying to say and not very well by the looks of it, is that for instance Spider-man had trouble taking down Rhino, with the symbiote i belive he would have a better chance at beating him in an actual fight head on, i think it upgrades his strengh and stamina to a higher angle then before, i could be wrong if i am then i can scrap this.

That's the confusing thing.

If you read the issues where he had the suit, it really didn't appear like he was any stronger or tougher.

But it clearly made Brock tougher... if the suit could increase Spideys abilities to the same degree, then Spidey would be on a whole other level. Brock was over 10 times stronger with the suit.

Scoropion seems a bit stronger (and a lot bigger). But Namor still owned him, and Spidey was still able to take him so I don't think Scorpion is that much stronger either.

[becominAfanAgain]

Spideys rogues gallery has so much depth and size though, that his power level is rarely really a problem. They could get away with powering him up if they wanted to.

Yeah, there's a few low end guys like Vulture... even with upgrades he was never too uber to tackle guys like Rhyno, Venom, and Sandman. Plus, his rogues have a funny way of tackling him 6 at a time.

That said, I do agree they like him roughly where he is. Class 10 strength with a level of speed and agility that makes him almost untouchable to anyone other than a true speedster gives him a pretty nice range as is.

I think the only problem comes when writers forgot that Spidey is suppossed to be metahumanly fast and agile. For whatever reason, writers tend to downgrade Spideys speed and agility to the level of any guy in the MU running around with a black belt.

I agree with you too. It seem like Spidey is always being down graded to make some Joe Blow gave him a hard time.

When Spidey had the symbiote it really didn't appear to be much of an upgrade. It was just a cool costume with a few handy tricks. For whatever reason, it barely upgraded Spideys physical abilities (if at all).

But when Brock got the suit, it vastly made increased Brocks strength and durability well beyond Spidey level. It also gave gave the ability to morph their body to some degree.

Spidey kinda got lowballed with the suit.

I think the way that it was explain, Is that Peter didn't fully bond with the symbiote so he never really tap into all it's powers. I could be wrong it's been a while.

[XPac]

I agree with you too. It seem like Spidey is always being down graded to make some Joe Blow gave him a hard time.



I think the way that it was explain, Is that Peter didn't fully bond with the symbiote so he never really tap into all it's powers. I could be wrong it's been a while.

That makes sense to me. I'll buy it.

As long as Peter doesn't allow the suit to completely bond with him, he can have an acceptable power level while still having the suit. So it's an option... though again one I don't think marvel would take. Spidey doesn't really need the suit... but the Vemon character obviously does.

[Tobias Drake]

Spider-Man already has a phenominal healing factor; and anyway, I don't quite see what you're driving at here. Also not sure what you're talking about in reference to additional endurance. Have I missed an update on the symbiote's capabilites somewhere?

Venom has been hit by a train at full speed and walk away fine. Spidey's fast and agile, but not "I can shrug off being splattered into paste" durable. Adding that level of endurance to him would render his agility and speed completely devoid of purpose.

[Jim Thompson]

Venom has been hit by a train at full speed and walk away fine. Spidey's fast and agile, but not "I can shrug off being splattered into paste" durable. Adding that level of endurance to him would render his agility and speed completely devoid of purpose.When the heck did that happen? :eek:

[Tobias Drake]

When the heck did that happen? :eek:

One of Venom's "vs. Carnage" minis, before Maximum Carnage. Carnage fended him off by shoving him into the path of an oncoming train, which hit him at full steam. I remember reading that story when I was younger.

That level of durability would render Peter's agility pointless. Spidey works better as a character who nimbly dodges enemy attacks, rather than a character who steamrolls through them.

[Jim Thompson]

One of Venom's "vs. Carnage" minis, before Maximum Carnage. Carnage fended him off by shoving him into the path of an oncoming train, which hit him at full steam. I remember reading that story when I was younger.

That level of durability would render Peter's agility pointless. Spidey works better as a character who nimbly dodges enemy attacks, rather than a character who steamrolls through them.Honestly, I think that's a case of a writer giving Venom a lot more power than he was ever intended to have, more than it being a clear indication of the symbiote's abilities.

[comicbookid (:]

some fire based villains would have been near impossible to defeat and he would also have to deal with the other voice inside his head, it would certainly would have made for interesting stories.



i think i feel a "what if" coming on..

actually a whole sub-series.. would be amazing

[Jim Thompson]

i think i feel a "what if" coming on..

actually a whole sub-series.. would be amazingI wish I could say I see Marvel doing something like that, but in reality, that sounds more like a move DC would take with the character than Marvel would ever consider doing.

Sadly, once upon a time I thought of Marvel as the comic company with enough minerals to make that sort of chance with their character without having to resort to the whole "this is a different reality" thing. Once upon a time I believed their saying that they were "The House of Ideas".

These days they seem much more like "The House of Former Ideas" -- or more like their Distinguished Competition. :biggrin:

[littleredhat]

I do hope they get together again. I've had a theroy for a long time about the suit's true nature. Everything about it points to the idea that it is colored by it's hosts thoughts and actions and not the other way around. Hence why it behaved selflessly when with Peter,slowly became more hate filled with Eddie,became cruel when it absorbed Carnage and finnally lost all it's good quallities when it attached to the mobsters son and then finnally Gargan.

This is suported by Spider-Girl cannon where the alien was purified and became good after bonding with good people like Normie and May.

[Jim Thompson]

I do hope they get together again. I've had a theroy for a long time about the suit's true nature. Everything about it points to the idea that it is colored by it's hosts thoughts and actions and not the other way around. Hence why it behaved selflessly when with Peter,slowly became more hate filled with Eddie,became cruel when it absorbed Carnage and finnally lost all it's good quallities when it attached to the mobsters son and then finnally Gargan.

This is suported by Spider-Girl cannon where the alien was purified and became good after bonding with good people like Normie and May.I don't know as Marvel will go down that road, but I'd sure enjoy it if they did!

[Mister Mets]

I do hope they get together again. I've had a theroy for a long time about the suit's true nature. Everything about it points to the idea that it is colored by it's hosts thoughts and actions and not the other way around. Hence why it behaved selflessly when with Peter,slowly became more hate filled with Eddie,became cruel when it absorbed Carnage and finnally lost all it's good quallities when it attached to the mobsters son and then finnally Gargan.

This is suported by Spider-Girl cannon where the alien was purified and became good after bonding with good people like Normie and May.I suspect they'll keep the idea of the suit as a corrupting influence, because that's the version today's readers are most familiar with thanks to the Ultimate Venom origin, 90s cartoon and Spider-Man 3.

On the other hand, a writer may want to subvert expectations/ figure that he'll make his mark on the franchise by making the Alien costume a force for good.

[Jim Thompson]

I suspect they'll keep the idea of the suit as a corrupting influence, because that's the version today's readers are most familiar with thanks to the Ultimate Venom origin, 90s cartoon and Spider-Man 3.Yeah, I agree with you -- which is unfortunate, because I also think that's the least interesting way to go.

[BlackToe]

I don't even want it to be at that level. I never saw the suit as "assimilating" Peter -- more like it was co-existing with him.

It is a parasite after all. It's species exists purely for assimilation/devouring of DNA, body chemicals and "using up" the host body for its own gain.

Also I want to point out that originally, fire wasnt a symbiote weakness. It was actually the opposite. When Pete webbed Torch's face, he bitched that it was a pain in the ass to get off (while of fire) compared to his chemical based webbing.

[Tobias Drake]

I do hope they get together again. I've had a theroy for a long time about the suit's true nature. Everything about it points to the idea that it is colored by it's hosts thoughts and actions and not the other way around. Hence why it behaved selflessly when with Peter,slowly became more hate filled with Eddie,became cruel when it absorbed Carnage and finnally lost all it's good quallities when it attached to the mobsters son and then finnally Gargan.

This is suported by Spider-Girl cannon where the alien was purified and became good after bonding with good people like Normie and May.

This is also supported by the Carnage symbiote having Kasady's exact personality, and as much as I hate to acknowledge the character's existence in any way, shape, or form, by Toxin. Also by Venom's "Lethal Protector" phase, it can be speculated that the symbiote still had some of Peter's desire to do good wafting around inside it.

[Shyft]

That's the confusing thing.

If you read the issues where he had the suit, it really didn't appear like he was any stronger or tougher.

But it clearly made Brock tougher... if the suit could increase Spideys abilities to the same degree, then Spidey would be on a whole other level. Brock was over 10 times stronger with the suit.

Scoropion seems a bit stronger (and a lot bigger). But Namor still owned him, and Spidey was still able to take him so I don't think Scorpion is that much stronger either.

didnt the suit become altered because of its extended bonding with Peter? which is why it took the spider-design,blocking spider-sense, and webbing with it? That would explain why on Peter there was no clear strength increase, but when it was taken FROM Peter (along with aspects of his powers) those aspects it partially absorbed were transferred to its new hosts.

[Shyft]

It is a parasite after all. It's species exists purely for assimilation/devouring of DNA, body chemicals and "using up" the host body for its own gain.

Also I want to point out that originally, fire wasnt a symbiote weakness. It was actually the opposite. When Pete webbed Torch's face, he bitched that it was a pain in the ass to get off (while of fire) compared to his chemical based webbing.

has it ever canonically been dubbed a parasite though? Many people other than Peter seem to have survived very long term exposure to the symbiote. It could be mutualistic symbiosis, just with an adverse affect on the mental state of the wearer.

[ShadowSonic]

didnt the suit become altered because of its extended bonding with Peter? which is why it took the spider-design,blocking spider-sense, and webbing with it? That would explain why on Peter there was no clear strength increase, but when it was taken FROM Peter (along with aspects of his powers) those aspects it partially absorbed were transferred to its new hosts.

Peter was the first super-powered being it ever joined with, so when it left him it had been altered and could now pass on those same powers as well as new ones generated by the symbiote onto the next host.

Plus, symbiotes aren't symbiotes unless they offer something in return for the bond otherwise it's just a parasite.

[BlackToe]

has it ever canonically been dubbed a parasite though? Many people other than Peter seem to have survived very long term exposure to the symbiote. It could be mutualistic symbiosis, just with an adverse affect on the mental state of the wearer.

I think by Dr.Connors or Reed. I'll have to look back at the first notable issues.

[CSG]

I always confuse for the fact that, in What ifs and other stories where Peter kept the symbiote, it turns him into rotten bones. But when Eddie Brock/MacGargan bonded with Venom, after all these years, how can they just stay fit? (Except for Eddie's cancer, but the symbiote helped him survive) Any reasons why writers do this although it's pretty obvious that Peter can take down someone stronger than him as easy as turning hand's palm with the symbiote.

[XPac]

I always confuse for the fact that, in What ifs and other stories where Peter kept the symbiote, it turns him into rotten bones. But when Eddie Brock/MacGargan bonded with Venom, after all these years, how can they just stay fit? (Except for Eddie's cancer, but the symbiote helped him survive) Any reasons why writers do this although it's pretty obvious that Peter can take down someone stronger than him as easy as turning hand's palm with the symbiote.

That's the thing with What Ifs... they're not necessarily accurate. They tell whatever story the author wants usually in the form of worst case scenario.

[CSG]

OK, What ifs are un-trustable. But what about Eddie? Did he go out every night because of the symbiote? Spidey is just like.......a father to the symbiote, which the symbiote always want to be with in his childhood. (At least that's the explicit word)

[Winter Bolt]

I thought that the symbiote just found Peter's physiology the perfectly balanced host that he would soon neither have want or desire, it would have overtime just enter a harmonic balance with Peter and coexhist. As a destructive force it would read as good for a tortured insane criminal species to find peace.

I would love it if Pete had it back, if for a short time. I'm tired of Venom, especially as Gargan, and I'm tired of Brock, maybe just let the venom personality split, get a pure Brock/Venom and a red/black venom. I can't see the symbiote just giving Peter any powers. I don't want it to give him webs, spikes, or armor. Possibly up his healing factor by %15 maybe, don't have to really mess with his strength class, really just keep the symbiote as a weakened hippy, also no weaknesses. Have the pure Venom get a really juiced up power up and super crazy insane, have good portion be mellow and happy. Seems that if there was a portion of the Symbiote should it ever want to bond with Peter it would have to reach a new stage of self forced evolution.

As the symbiote is now no way in hell is it joining Pete. Still would love to think the symbiote still maintains a little love for Spidey, you never forget your first love. Some tiny glimmer hidden in all that evil goo. But no powers, keep it just a suit, then Peter can talk to himself even more. I'd also not want the suit to talk or thought bubble, maybe just do limited pantomime and mental response from Peter. Hell, I'd have it just live in him and be lazy most of the time, not want to do nothing. Why should it. If the portion of the symbiote that has learned love, kindness, and selflessness bonds with Peter, I think it would just want to chill in a happy place, probably barely enough for a suit, which would mean... no power up = me happy.

[CSG]

And I'll be very happy if the Venom Symbiote got much sense of humor when he re-bonded to Spidey in the latter time.

[Jim Thompson]

My general feeling is the symbiote has morphed into something over time it really wasn't intended to be. As it was originally presented and used, it represented something new, but not a threat.

[StoneGold]

I'll I'm saying is that the suit changes a man...


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/andy.jpg

[HeckBoy]

Also by Venom's "Lethal Protector" phase, it can be speculated that the symbiote still had some of Peter's desire to do good wafting around inside it.I wouldn't mind if the symbiote decided to re-bond w/ Peter, but this time becoming "good." It might be unnecessarily complicated, but I figure if the symbiote can finally learn to coexist w/ Peter without subtly influencing his behavior, then Peter can just use the symbiote as simply a suit/webbing. Kind of a permanent costume upgrade you know? He wouldn't have to worry about his mask necessarily coming off or running out of webbing, and I'm sure he could shapeshift the symbiote to his red/blue suit's design. Basically, just a more utilitarian use of the suit instead of a story point.

[Tobias Drake]

I wouldn't mind if the symbiote decided to re-bond w/ Peter, but this time becoming "good." It might be unnecessarily complicated, but I figure if the symbiote can finally learn to coexist w/ Peter without subtly influencing his behavior, then Peter can just use the symbiote as simply a suit/webbing. Kind of a permanent costume upgrade you know? He wouldn't have to worry about his mask necessarily coming off or running out of webbing, and I'm sure he could shapeshift the symbiote to his red/blue suit's design. Basically, just a more utilitarian use of the suit instead of a story point.

Yeah, but if you're going to put the symbiote back on him but not have it do anything other than be a costume and give him webbing, then it becomes a moot point. You can achieve the same results just by having him wear his black costume. If Peter got the symbiote back, I'd want him to have the symbiote. With the symbiote as a supporting character and without nerfing it to hell just because "The hero can't have the full power symbiote". But the problem that creates is that it makes him too powerful.

[josephrey]

That's the confusing thing.

If you read the issues where he had the suit, it really didn't appear like he was any stronger or tougher.

But it clearly made Brock tougher... if the suit could increase Spideys abilities to the same degree, then Spidey would be on a whole other level. Brock was over 10 times stronger with the suit.

Scoropion seems a bit stronger (and a lot bigger). But Namor still owned him, and Spidey was still able to take him so I don't think Scorpion is that much stronger either.



i didn't finish reading the entire thread, so someone may have already posed this:

the symbiote may only offer its own amount of strength to the partnership. it, itself, may be stronger than a normal human (making brock 10 times stronger), but it's not as strong as peter already is. i think most people are thinking that the symbiote is adding whatever power or strength it has as a slightly magical percentage. you're only as strong as the strongest partner, and that's peter. the strengths don't get added.



but i totally agree on wanting to see a future relationship between peter and the symbiote. so much more needs to be explored.

[Jim Thompson]

[quote=josephrey;7009563]i didn't finish reading the entire thread, so someone may have already posed this:

the symbiote may only offer it's own amount of strength to the partnership. it, itself, may be stronger than a normal human (making brock 10 times stronger), but it's not as strong as peter already is. i think most people are thinking that the symbiote is adding whatever power or strength it has as a slightly magical percentage. you're only as strong as the strongest partner, and that's peter. the strengths don't get added.
quote]As the Guiness guys say, "Brilliant!" Perfect solution!

[The Lucky One]

the symbiote may only offer it's own amount of strength to the partnership. it, itself, may be stronger than a normal human (making brock 10 times stronger), but it's not as strong as peter already is. i think most people are thinking that the symbiote is adding whatever power or strength it has as a slightly magical percentage. you're only as strong as the strongest partner, and that's peter. the strengths don't get added.

The way it was originally presented in Venom's earliest appearances -- and I haven't kept up with every development since, so this could well have been retconned -- is that the suit copied Peter's spider-strength when they were together, and brought that along to its next host. The reason Venom is stronger than Spidey is because Brock was a weightlifter who threw himself into bulking up as a way to take out his frustration at Spider-Man. Ergo, the symbiote itself gives Venom the exact same strength as Spidey... however, since Brock adds his own (very impressive, by human standards) strength into the mix, Venom is stronger than Spider-Man.

But like I said, that's just how it was originally presented... I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's been upgraded in the years since.

Of course, didn't I hear that Spidey's strength has been massively boosted since then (didn't he go from class 10 to class 25 or something? Or has that been reversed?), so I guess that means Spider-Man is now stronger than Venom. Should come in handy next time they fight.

-D

[AbdulAziz]

I remember reading in one cup of joe maybe a couple ago,that the venom symbiote is destined to be with Parker.

So is it possible that in the upcoming,deadly ways to die arc. That the suit again tries to re-merge?In what if Spider-Man refused to be resurrected the symbiote left its completely sealing containment and went for the dead body of Peter Parker, yes the symbiote still wants to merge with Spider-Man

[josephrey]

In what if Spider-Man refused to be resurrected the symbiote left its completely sealing containment and went for the dead body of Peter Parker, yes the symbiote still wants to merge with Spider-Man



well if that's the case, then why peter? first love? or does it see peter as its mama?

[josephrey]

ha, i'm not being a wise ass, btw. :)

i don't know the history of the suit, but it was created/introduced for peter during the secret war, ya? did it exist before that time in some incubated form, or was its first introduction to 'life' associated with peter?

has there been any history regarding the symbiote as a species? where they came from, what other life form(s) (the original hosts) evolved as they did, etc?



i have no idea. i'd look it up on wikipedia, but the romance is always destroyed in that format. :)

[BlackToe]

The reasoning behind the symbiote powers in my opinion, at first when it was with Peter, it wanted to lay low and act inconspicuous for obvious reasons. (To complete the bonding without gaining Peter's attention to probe what it is. Even though eventually, Connors and Reed did that after the suit wasnt listening to Peter's commands.)

When Brock acquired it, the symbiote already had enough knowledge from its semi-bond with Peter (Pete's DNA) to emulate his powers exactly and add to it. I point to this ability when it can bypass Pete's Spider-sense. I reckon it has something to do with Peter's own DNA that nullified it.

And if the symbiote had other hosts before Peter, it could in theory, have their strengths to add to Brock and Peter's abilities.

[Jim Thompson]

The reasoning behind the symbiote powers in my opinion, at first when it was with Peter, it wanted to lay low and act inconspicuous for obvious reasons. (To complete the bonding without gaining Peter's attention to probe what it is. Even though eventually, Connors and Reed did that after the suit wasnt listening to Peter's commands.)

When Brock acquired it, the symbiote already had enough knowledge from its semi-bond with Peter (Pete's DNA) to emulate his powers exactly and add to it. I point to this ability when it can bypass Pete's Spider-sense. I reckon it has something to do with Peter's own DNA that nullified it.

And if the symbiote had other hosts before Peter, it could in theory, have their strengths to add to Brock and Peter's abilities.Okay -- are you pulling any of this from somewhere, or is it all conjecture?

[BlackToe]

Okay -- are you pulling any of this from somewhere, or is it all conjecture?

Established logical deduction from fiction. Plus, I said it was my opinion at the beginning there.

I'm just expanding on what has already been written. Like why does the symbiote bypass the Spider-sense, even when its attacking Peter? Why does Eddie have Spider-mans powers and more? What does the symbiote do at the DNA level? I think its all connected to that particular question.

[Jim Thompson]

Symbiote Amazing Spider-Man I #252 (1984) Alien shape-changer, member of Symbiote race, deemed insane for seeking to bond with host body rather than destroy it, encountered Spider-Man on the Beyonder's Battleworld, mistaken for costume of alien fabric, attempted to bond with Spider-Man following return to Earth, rejected by him, bonded with Eddie Brock as Venom, fought Spider-Man many times, spawned symbiote that would create Carnage, later became menace on its own.Here's a short history of the symbiote.

[littleredhat]

well if that's the case, then why peter? first love? or does it see peter as its mama?

Its all about the love baby. Sweet tentecle love. The suit is almost always reffered to as a jilted lover.

Brock somtimes mentioned that he didn't need a girlfriend because he had the suit. Make of that what you will.

I can show you some fanart if you want further explaination.

[Darkhalen]

Peter was the first super-powered being it ever joined with, so when it left him it had been altered and could now pass on those same powers as well as new ones generated by the symbiote onto the next host.

Plus, symbiotes aren't symbiotes unless they offer something in return for the bond otherwise it's just a parasite.

bulletproof
makes own cloths
heals host
cures diseases within host
can breathe for host in certain conditions

i think that already proves it is not a parasite.

[Jim Thompson]

bulletproof
makes own cloths
heals host
cures diseases within host
can breathe for host in certain conditions

i think that already proves it is not a parasite.Not that I think you're wrong, but where are you pulling all these powers from?

[Darkhalen]

Not that I think you're wrong, but where are you pulling all these powers from?

actual issues of Spider-Man *ermm*

[Jim Thompson]

actual issues of Spider-Man *ermm*Sure -- which ones?

[RazorBats79]

The way it was originally presented in Venom's earliest appearances -- and I haven't kept up with every development since, so this could well have been retconned -- is that the suit copied Peter's spider-strength when they were together, and brought that along to its next host. The reason Venom is stronger than Spidey is because Brock was a weightlifter who threw himself into bulking up as a way to take out his frustration at Spider-Man. Ergo, the symbiote itself gives Venom the exact same strength as Spidey... however, since Brock adds his own (very impressive, by human standards) strength into the mix, Venom is stronger than Spider-Man.

But like I said, that's just how it was originally presented... I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's been upgraded in the years since.

Of course, didn't I hear that Spidey's strength has been massively boosted since then (didn't he go from class 10 to class 25 or something? Or has that been reversed?), so I guess that means Spider-Man is now stronger than Venom. Should come in handy next time they fight.

-D

It was an Erik Larsen issue, ASM # 332 where Brock says out loud right before pumping iron "You didn't enhance Spider-man's strength when you were with him because his strength was already augmented by some kind of genetic mutation."
"I am merely human" "And since you increase my strength geometrically, the mightier I become, the mightier you make me!"

Thats how is was back then. Does Mac Gargan actually have any powers??

[Sean Whitmore]

ha, i'm not being a wise ass, btw. :)

i don't know the history of the suit, but it was created/introduced for peter during the secret war, ya? did it exist before that time in some incubated form, or was its first introduction to 'life' associated with peter?

has there been any history regarding the symbiote as a species? where they came from, what other life form(s) (the original hosts) evolved as they did, etc?

Keep in mind this was all a massive retcon, so it doesn't necessarily represent how the symbiote was originally intended (for all we know, Shooter might not have even had an origin in mind for it), but this is what was revealed about its race:

The "symbiote" came from a race of parasites that traveled from world to world feeding off the population. But the symbiote was dubbed a criminal by its race, because it actually wanted to bond and live with a host instead of consuming it. The parasites imprisoned the symbiote on one of their ravaged planets, and that ended up being one of the worlds pillaged for parts by the Beyonder to create Battleworld. So what Peter thought was a costume-making machine was actually the prison, which he released the symbiote from.

Of course, all of that is completely apocryphal now. Current status quo is that the symbiote is (a) a parasite, and (b) malicious. Far as I know, it was Paul Jenkins who started the ball rolling that way (perhaps influenced by the 90s cartoon), and it's been followed up by Millar and Ellis ever since.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Not that I think you're wrong, but where are you pulling all these powers from?

Well, Peter and Eddie used the suit to make clothes all the time.

Bulletproof comes from any random Venom story, really.

Breathing for the host was only ever used (to my memory) in that 2-parter where Venom took Spidey to a deserted island.

As for healing the host and curing diseases, I have no idea. Sounds like something that was introduced in one of the numerous Venom minis where they granted the symbiote every power under the sun. ("The symbiote can travel into cyberspace? Okay!!!")


SEAN

[Nosgoth Phantom]

Does Mac Gargan actually have any powers??

Mac Gargan drank some experimental concoction with the genetic material of a scoprion and was given a radiation treatment. All paid for by JJ Jameson. Without the suit, he has all of Spider-Man's powers except for spider sense. The proportionate strength of an arachnid, wall crawling, and agility. Where Spider-Man had mechanical web-shooters, Scorpion had a mechanical tail. He was Spider-Man's original anti-thesis before Venom.

[RazorBats79]

Mac Gargan drank some experimental concoction with the genetic material of a scoprion and was given a radiation treatment. All paid for by JJ Jameson. Without the suit, he has all of Spider-Man's powers except for spider sense. The proportionate strength of an arachnid, wall crawling, and agility. Where Spider-Man had mechanical web-shooters, Scorpion had a mechanical tail. He was Spider-Man's original anti-thesis before Venom.

Here I thought he was just some thug in a cool suit. Cheers NP!
Its insane how often the whole "radiation experiment/accident" came up back then.

[RazorBats79]

As for healing the host and curing diseases, I have no idea. Sounds like something that was introduced in one of the numerous Venom minis where they granted the symbiote every power under the sun. ("The symbiote can travel into cyberspace? Okay!!!")


SEAN

I think the healing and whatever came in Spectacular Spider-Man 1-5?? And also recently in Thunderbolts when Venom was stabbed.

[ShadowSonic]

Here I thought he was just some thug in a cool suit. Cheers NP!
Its insane how often the whole "radiation experiment/accident" came up back then.

Scorpion was created by Jameson specifically to be the Anti-Spidey. Unfortunately he became a C-Lister because he started out as a thug and not some rich guy like Norman or a big shot like Octavius and Kingsley.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think the healing and whatever came in Spectacular Spider-Man 1-5??

That sounds right. When the symbiote became all, "Mmm, cancer! Yums!"


SEAN

[spiderman_rj]

bulletproof
cures diseases within host
can breathe for host in certain conditions


nevermind,the posts above me just answered my question

[Jim Thompson]

That sounds right. When the symbiote became all, "Mmm, cancer! Yums!"


SEANOkay, see I think writers are coming up with things for that symbiote to do and be that were never intended.

"Mmm, cancer! Yums!"? That's just silly. :rolleyes:

[BlackToe]

Yeah seriously...the 90's hasnt been kind to the symbiote....

[Venom]

Yeah seriously...the 90's hasnt been kind to the symbiote....

Don't you mean the 00s hasn't been kind to the Symbiote... and Eddie Brock. :biggrin: