What is the current status between Hawkman and Hawkgirl?

[Teh m0nk3y]

I haven't kept up with Hawkman and Hawkgirl, so I was wondering what the current relationship between the two of them is? The last time I followed their series, Gray and Palmiotti had finally gotten the two lovebirds together. I fell off during the one year later part. Now I'm trying to trace the steps and update my self, but I don't know where to look. I think I saw somewhere that something had begun between Kendra and Roy... Seriously?

[Jack Zodiac]

Carter stayed on Rann for a year after Infinite Crisis and Kendra stayed on Earth after her and everyone who was trapped in the zeta beam from New Cronus was returned home. And during that year, she started dating some dude in St. Roch, and then by the time Carter returned to Earth, they were weird with each other. Now she's dating Roy because Brad Meltzer has a fanfic boner to stroke.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Carter stayed on Rann for a year after Infinite Crisis and Kendra stayed on Earth after her and everyone who was trapped in the zeta beam from New Cronus was returned home. And during that year, she started dating some dude in St. Roch, and then by the time Carter returned to Earth, they were weird with each other. Now she's dating Roy because Brad Meltzer has a fanfic boner to stroke.

Thanks!

Sigh... Why Meltzer? Why?

[Johnny_Luck]

I really don't care if people hate roy cause it pretty much seems that the only reason people hate the relationship. However she deserves better than Carter. Kendra always has. every time they are together as a hero she is held down. when gail had her in birds and in the early stages on JLA you saw how happy and free she was and how much more fun she could be without being tied down to the whole idea a man will own her forever no matter what.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Carter stayed on Rann for a year after Infinite Crisis and Kendra stayed on Earth after her and everyone who was trapped in the zeta beam from New Cronus was returned home. And during that year, she started dating some dude in St. Roch, and then by the time Carter returned to Earth, they were weird with each other. Now she's dating Roy because Brad Meltzer has a fanfic boner to stroke.

DC pretty much ruined her character the moment they broke her and Hawkman up. The love story the 2 were building for 4 years was tossed aside and her solo series ended in 16 issues since most fans were like F THIS CRAP.

Thanks!

Sigh... Why Meltzer? Why?

We ask that all the time.
I really don't care if people hate roy cause it pretty much seems that the only reason people hate the relationship. However she deserves better than Carter. Kendra always has. every time they are together as a hero she is held down. when gail had her in birds and in the early stages on JLA you saw how happy and free she was and how much more fun she could be without being tied down to the whole idea a man will own her forever no matter what.


She's really busting loose now ! I mean when Roy made her watch her kid and all....HELL YEAH ! You rock Kendra....be put in your place.

[Teh m0nk3y]

I really don't care if people hate roy cause it pretty much seems that the only reason people hate the relationship. However she deserves better than Carter. Kendra always has. every time they are together as a hero she is held down. when gail had her in birds and in the early stages on JLA you saw how happy and free she was and how much more fun she could be without being tied down to the whole idea a man will own her forever no matter what.

Held down? Cough! Held down. Please... I've seen you post before, and I'm well aware how drastically our tastes differ.
If you like the relationship then I know I'm going to hate it long before touching the issues in question.

Kendra kicked massive amounts of ass during Grey's and Palmiotti's tenure on Hawkman. She was every bit as brutal as Carter during combat.
To me they appealed to my inner hopeless romantic. A tragic love story 3000 years in the making. 4 years of build up where Kendra and Carter finally found the right moment... God... I hate the one year later shitty concept.

[DonC]

Hawkman wanted to give Hawkgirl his letterman jacket, but she was like "Oh my god, he's so hairy. It's completely gross." So she started flirting with Batman 'cause he's like way rich. So Hawkman tried to make Hawkgirl jealous by asking out Zatanna, but she turned him down 'cause she's also totally into Batman.

This lead to Hawkman trying to jump Batman, but come on! He's Batman. He totally wiped the floor with Hawkman.

So now Hawkman just hangs with Aquaman in the A/V Room watching old episodes of Mystery Science Theater 3000.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Hawkman wanted to give Hawkgirl his letterman jacket, but she was like "Oh my god, he's so hairy. It's completely gross." So she started flirting with Batman 'cause he's like way rich. So Hawkman tried to make Hawkgirl jealous by asking out Zatanna, but she turned him down 'cause she's also totally into Batman.

This lead to Hawkman trying to jump Batman, but come on! He's Batman. He totally wiped the floor with Hawkman.

So now Hawkman just hangs with Aquaman in the A/V Room watching old episodes of Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Nice one. I can already see the banter. Is Green Arrow in there as well?

[Jack Zodiac]

I really don't care if people hate roy cause it pretty much seems that the only reason people hate the relationship. However she deserves better than Carter. Kendra always has. every time they are together as a hero she is held down. when gail had her in birds and in the early stages on JLA you saw how happy and free she was and how much more fun she could be without being tied down to the whole idea a man will own her forever no matter what.

I like Roy. I don't like him as Red Arrow, but that's more of a matter of Meltzer writing him like !@#$. I don't like their relationship because it's forced and unnatural. For both of them. And any amount of drama it's stirred up as been pretty bland and more intrusive than intriguing.

The idea of her and Carter as a couple isn't of her being "owned," it's of immortal love, as every incarnation of the Hawks have been lovers. While Kendra and Carter had a relationship, at no point did she ever seem as bound as she does now, with Roy.

[Hawkman]

Just to add to what's already been said (and I'm not going to get into the whole Carter/Kendra vs. Kendra/Roy debate again), at the end of Hawkgirl it's strongly implied that Shiera's soul is no longer occupying Kendra's body. Some people believe that it is, but her memories are no longer invading Kendra's--even on a subconscious level--while others believe that Kendra is now wholly herself, soul, memories, and everything else.

Either way, though, the fated lovers angle seems to have been tossed, which was a huge loss, in my opinion. The idea of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman being a romantic superheroic couple is nearly as old as the concept of the characters themselves, and I hope to see it again soon in some form or another. I'm hoping something develops out of the upcoming JSA annual, or possibly Starlin's Hawkman Special in August. But that's a post for another thread.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Just to add to what's already been said (and I'm not going to get into the whole Carter/Kendra vs. Kendra/Roy debate again), at the end of Hawkgirl it's strongly implied that Shiera's soul is no longer occupying Kendra's body. Some people believe that it is, but her memories are no longer invading Kendra's--even on a subconscious level--while others believe that Kendra is now wholly herself, soul, memories, and everything else.

Either way, though, the fated lovers angle seems to have been tossed, which was a huge loss, in my opinion. The idea of Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman being a romantic superheroic couple is nearly as old as the concept of the characters themselves, and I hope to see it again soon in some form or another. I'm hoping something develops out of the upcoming JSA annual, or possibly Starlin's Hawkman Special in August. But that's a post for another thread.


Tossing a key plot of those 2 characters being so close and that Hawkman defied death to return for his true love seems to have hurt long term readers of Hawkgirl. Being honest... DC you F-CKED UP MAJOR.

Now you gotta try and reset the retcon you forced into the couple. Heres hoping Starlin fixes this mess. I'd play it off as that not being Kendra at all post OYL. That way they can explain it all away easier .

[Johnny_Luck]

Tossing a key plot of those 2 characters being so close and that Hawkman defied death to return for his true love seems to have hurt long term readers of Hawkgirl. Being honest... DC you F-CKED UP MAJOR.

Now you gotta try and reset the retcon you forced into the couple. Heres hoping Starlin fixes this mess. I'd play it off as that not being Kendra at all post OYL. That way they can explain it all away easier .

No they didn't screw up, this is just proof to me why dc is failing in the market compared to marvel, its fans are stuck in the past and cannot accept changes even ones that might and or have worked out for the better.

If all Hawkgirl is is a character who is owned by a man or belongs to a man according to "eternal love" as you say then that makes her a piss poor character, actually making her, her own person is the right step in the right direction and quite frankly if Hawkman fans are so upset that just tells me they think hes not worth anything without her either, which means it is a better thing he is on his own so he can develop so more too.

If dc makes changes, and or moves forward with characters rather than having them stuck in the same place forever or year after year I cannot understand how people think that is a bad thing. But fuck progress and character improvement for the sake of having what you once had right.

Its time they move these characters forward, whether its with Roy or Powergirl its time they try out other people and or at least spend some time by themselves becoming more than just lovebirds.

[Teh m0nk3y]

No they didn't screw up, this is just proof to me why dc is failing in the market compared to marvel, its fans are stuck in the past and cannot accept changes even ones that might and or have worked out for the better.

If all Hawkgirl is is a character who is owned by a man or belongs to a man according to "eternal love" as you say then that makes her a piss poor character, actually making her, her own person is the right step in the right direction and quite frankly if Hawkman fans are so upset that just tells me they think hes not worth anything without her either, which means it is a better thing he is on his own so he can develop so more too.

If dc makes changes, and or moves forward with characters rather than having them stuck in the same place forever or year after year I cannot understand how people think that is a bad thing. But fuck progress and character improvement for the sake of having what you once had right.

Its time they move these characters forward, whether its with Roy or Powergirl its time they try out other people and or at least spend some time by themselves becoming more than just lovebirds.

Hello there. I'm a registration supporter who believes Iron Man was and is right. I support Cyclops in his new found militant glory. Etc.
I've supported the changes over at Marvel.

What I disagree heavily with you is the separation of Carter and Kendra.
That would be like separating Romeo from Juliet to me. It was an epic love affair through several incarnations. Two souls finding each other life after life after life.
It was to me a relationship above any mundane ones. With Hath-Set killing them in each and every life time in the course of 3000 years. Immortal Love conquering time.
Though I guess they've thrown that concept out the window...

I guess I wouldn't have this problem if DC hadn't given them the immortal lovers angle.
Had they just had one of them run of the mill relationships, then I wouldn't have cared who they dated.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

No they didn't screw up, this is just proof to me why dc is failing in the market compared to marvel, its fans are stuck in the past and cannot accept changes even ones that might and or have worked out for the better.

It worked as well as insane Batgirl or having Leslie Thompkins kill the Spoiler. Notice how long term fans REJECTED both stories. DC's losing to Marvel because of dumb as shit ideas. OYL killed a Hawkman series that was slowly gaining readers with Palmotti/Grey. DC killed Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka. And DC killed Flash by Geoff Johns and then killed Bart Allen.

DC's losing since they don't respect their fans and wanna tell cheap stories . When those bomb out and the cheap sales dwindle....they come running back beggin fans to accept them.


If all Hawkgirl is is a character who is owned by a man or belongs to a man according to "eternal love" as you say then that makes her a piss poor character, actually making her, her own person is the right step in the right direction and quite frankly if Hawkman fans are so upset that just tells me they think hes not worth anything without her either, which means it is a better thing he is on his own so he can develop so more too.

I think your not even getting what Eternal Love means. It means ....they may disagree but their love is what binds them. Its no walk in the park. And being 2 Hawks they'll always have a hot chemistry . But their love is timeless. They will die countless times , re-unite and fall in love again ...over and over.

Hawkman defied death for his woman. Give me the Geoff Johns scene from JSA over whats been done to the 2 thus far .

If dc makes changes, and or moves forward with characters rather than having them stuck in the same place forever or year after year I cannot understand how people think that is a bad thing. But fuck progress and character improvement for the sake of having what you once had right.

You can't even name one improvement Kendra has had beyond screwing Roy Harper. She's not done anything beyond it and watch his kid. If anything she was a good character but was dragged sadly down for this.

Progress is the Hawkman series (which you never read) where Carter had to court and work on dating Kendra. To win her over. Thats character progress in a series. She slowly grew to love Carter. Not forced over one issue to appease a writer.

Its time they move these characters forward, whether its with Roy or Powergirl its time they try out other people and or at least spend some time by themselves becoming more than just lovebirds.

So Kendra is better baby sitting Roy's kid and having i issue sex scenes ? And not many have really came out for a Powergirl/Hawkman love affair. I'm not...its pretty stupied. She's had more interaction with Ted Grant the last few years than Hawkman.

But its DC...and if fan fic writers want it...DC will do it to sell some books short term. Then apologize when long term it fizzles.

[Johnny_Luck]

I think your not even getting what Eternal Love means. It means ....they may disagree but their love is what binds them. Its no walk in the park. And being 2 Hawks they'll always have a hot chemistry . But their love is timeless. They will die countless times , re-unite and fall in love again ...over and over.


I know what enteral love is, but the way she was written it just feel true to anything but making character traits and bulding him not making her seem like it was there, the whole thing never once felt right on her side of things and of course it being hawkmans title they are going to write her in a way that would benifit him more than her, but still.

they really don't have hot chemistry together like at all, the relationship may have been built, but it never felt like she gelled with him at all. Just because they are both hawks means jack shit in the case of whether someone should be together with someone or not. Thats like saying if hulk courted she hulk for a while that they belong together cause they are both hulks. You guys like the hawkman title fine, you like hawkman fine. and don't give me while the hawks don't have the whole eternal love thing going, cause quite frankly if you think that was added for anything but to give him a reason to have someone you are kidding yourself.

But in everything that you pointed out to date you have not shown once why it was a good thing for Kendra to be with Hawkman or that it did anything for her character. She was a shitty ass character until she actually got released from him and was actually able to do stuff on her own.


You can't even name one improvement Kendra has had beyond screwing Roy Harper. She's not done anything beyond it and watch his kid. If anything she was a good character but was dragged sadly down for this.

I Can't. Yeah its clear you so blinded by what you want you cannot read what I have wrote or see whats really been on the page if it goes against anything what you want to happen. Read even like 2 panels of Birds when she was there and see how much freer, more fun, more dangerous, risk taking and overall better she was then in the hawkman series.


Progress is the Hawkman series (which you never read) where Carter had to court and work on dating Kendra.

Umm don't tell me what I have and have not read thank you very much and again Progress for Hawkman does not mean Progress for Kendra. There was really no Progress for making Kendra better.



So Kendra is better baby sitting Roy's kid and having i issue sex scenes ? And not many have really came out for a Powergirl/Hawkman love affair. I'm not...its pretty stupied. She's had more interaction with Ted Grant the last few years than Hawkman.

Babysitting his kid? Umm yeah making this up to make something actually decent sound more ridculous than how ridculous you want to pretend it to be is really silly, but its you so hey.

You continue to say that Roy only said one line and then showed her his kid and they jumped in bed, except in 11 issues they were together alover every other paghe working together, talking, poking fun at one another, flirting, actually you know building towards something and yeah even though vixen was in the worst issue to date of the JLA with Roy, Roy and HG actually have spent a hell of a lot more panel time together before they jumped into bed then you are giving Melzter credit for. You know pretending stuff didn't happen cause you want something else to happen doesn't work in real life.

Also while they were building this relationship when she was in the field was was written as one of the JLA best and more fun and she actually was a great character in the field as far as action went.

Not only that but in the issue they had sex the going to the bedroom was not rushed. And even if you did not want them to be together have sex, they have actually had character development as a couple since then and continue to grow so its not like they are continuing to build on what they have and it was just a one time thing.

[Hawkman]

Progress is the Hawkman series (which you never read)...
This. Which makes arguing all of these points with him practically useless, my friend. With no firsthand knowledge of the source material, ol' Johnny's nevertheless convinced himself that somehow, some way, Kendra was mistreated in Hawkman simply because she was alongside Carter. Never mind the fact that they weren't even romantically involved in the series till near its end, or that she's been mischaracterized ever since in nearly everything she's appeared in--including Hawkgirl--with the notable exception of a couple of Birds of Prey issues by Gail. And I read those issues too, slick, and let me tell you, that was Hawkman Hawkgirl all the way. If you liked it so much, you should take off your blinders, go back, and read those back-issues, because you'll find a lot more of the same.

As far as we being fanboys stuck in our ways, I won't speak for anybody else, but I'm fine with that label if it helps you sleep at night. Truth is, I'm more open to changes in the funny books than most, but this one was executed extremely poorly and has only hurt both characters since, but I'd actually argue Kendra more so. I'm really enjoying Carter's exploits in both JSA and Holy War right now, and he's scheduled to be appearing in Tirinity soon as well, not to mention the July issue of Brave and the Bold, followed by his own special in August. On the other hand, Hawkgirl only has JLA at the moment, and it seems like every time Kendra makes an appearance Roy's right there alongside her. So much for being independent, I guess.

And you can say all you want about the "development" between those two, but it simply wasn't there. It's ironic that you think we're the ones seeing things, because all we're seeing is what was printed. Kendra was little more than a prop for Roy to play off of, trading a couple quips with him here and there, fighting in couple of battles with him without nary a word passing between them, facing off against him in the "Kitchen," and then jumping in the sack with the guy once she found out he had a daughter. The fact that you complain as if she and Carter were somehow forced together in Hawkman only makes it that much more obvious that you haven't read that series, because by comparison if anything was forced, it was Kendra hooking up with Roy.

But I guess sudden changes to established relationships is always better, no matter in what ham-fisted manner such is carried out. God forbid we have a happy superheroic couple to read about that's not just another flash-in-the-pan romance that's all too common in comics. So on that note, I say split up Reed and Sue Richards. Permanently this time. That thing's been played out long enough as it is and it's time fans move past it already. Have Reed, I don't know, disappear for a while out in space, while Sue finds out Namor has a couple of young children. According to Meltzer's Shoddy Steps to Character Development (now available in paperback) that common link should finally get her to fall for the guy.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Hmmm, I learned somethings from this thread. I wasn't a particularly big fan of the hawks, liked Kendra but only because I was coming off a DCAU fix, she seems pretty cool. (Didn't love the Maw at all.) but her appearances in JLA have been alright at best. I was a little surprised at the hook up in JLA myself, it seemed so hurried to me. I mean unless Roy has some kind of super sex powers, that allows him to just look at a woman and say, "I want to knock boots with you." and whala it works. I think it could have or should have been a little bit more drawn out.. and seriously with Vixen standing right there, and being a hella lot more promiscuous and in my opinion more attractive, I have to wonder.. why did he immeditately go for the girl who in my opinion would have been a lot more prudent? Roy does not deny being a male whore and he is very proud of it, but Kendra doesn't seem like the type who'd just up and ignore that.. Vixen? Yeah definitely would, but I find Kendra being like that kind of odd.

I don't dislike the couple, any couple can work in my opinion so long as the their defining traits don't clash. To use a example and I know I stand alone on this but it stems from what I know I saw in a earlier comic book. She Hulk is apparently fated (or it probably already happened I stopped reading her series when I heard this coming.) to sleep with Hercules in a up coming issue, now a few years ago (I forget when) during a issue of her series something goofy was going on and whatever part of the city she was living in was being invaded by aliens or demons or something form another dimension, at some point she was talking to her roommate who was also near the epicenter of this catastrophe. She goes on about some kind of guy she'd like to meet, I don't know if she described Hercules outright, but he does eventually appear in the comic and after fighting demons with him and listening to him talk she came to realize she couldn't bring herself to like someone like him because of how he was, arrogant, chauvinistic, sexist, and so on... Yet now here it is 2008 and shes apparently going to bed him.. :rolleyes: I don't see the Roy Kendra relationship quiet like this mis-match but ehh.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Wait... Johnny Luck hasn't read Hawkman? Darn... This going to be just as awful as arguing with people who haven't touched a single issue of Iron Man, yet feel the urge to debate how evil Stark is in his own comic book. That has mad me scream and want to punch people quite often.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Wait... Johnny Luck hasn't read Hawkman? Darn... This going to be just as awful as arguing with people who haven't touched a single issue of Iron Man, yet feel the urge to debate how evil Stark is in his own comic book. That has mad me scream and want to punch people quite often.

heh heh, don't let the screen stop you, punch away. :tongue: heh walk outside and just punch the first person who gets to close, don't forget to yell, "Take that [insert name of person who in raged you.] Hahaha!" then run away.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I know what enteral love is, but the way she was written it just feel true to anything but making character traits and bulding him not making her seem like it was there, the whole thing never once felt right on her side of things and of course it being hawkmans title they are going to write her in a way that would benifit him more than her, but still.

So its better to rush a sex scene in 1 issue then do a slow character growth in 40+ issues. Wow....

they really don't have hot chemistry together like at all, the relationship may have been built, but it never felt like she gelled with him at all. Just because they are both hawks means jack shit in the case of whether someone should be together with someone or not.

You have never read the series. It goes beyond both being Hawks. In fact had you actually read the series you'd see that due to being reincarnated lovers they were actually the old west heroes Nitehawk and (her name escapes me). She and him meet in a town and just fall for each other.

Just because the relationship features characters you love doesn't mean jack shit if its done poorly , man. Thats why most fans hate it johhny. The characters may get love from you but its done in such a horrid way that no one gives a shit for it.

Thats like saying if hulk courted she hulk for a while that they belong together cause they are both hulks. You guys like the hawkman title fine, you like hawkman fine. and don't give me while the hawks don't have the whole eternal love thing going, cause quite frankly if you think that was added for anything but to give him a reason to have someone you are kidding yourself.

Maybe you should read his return. They used reincarnation to explain his muddled origin and give him a purpose. Plus re-unite Hawkgirl and Hawkman. Which goes beyond your silly She-Hulk/Hulk thing. Here , Geoff Johns made sense of years of bad continuty with Hawkman. He then gave him a long term purpose and asked readers to join and follow.

But in everything that you pointed out to date you have not shown once why it was a good thing for Kendra to be with Hawkman or that it did anything for her character. She was a shitty ass character until she actually got released from him and was actually able to do stuff on her own.

I think many of us have popinted out she played a big role in Hawkman. She played more of a role than you'll ever admit. But you are right now...she is a shitty ass character. She's gonna need redeemed in a major way. They have really tossed some crap on her the last 2+ years and if someone can fix the shittyness she's had done...all the better.

Being released to do stuff means more than having sex in a series. Thus far in JLA you don't see much of Kendra at all. You just see her and Red Arrow , argueing or him yelling not for her to get hurt by some villain. This is Kendra bustin loose ?

I Can't. Yeah its clear you so blinded by what you want you cannot read what I have wrote or see whats really been on the page if it goes against anything what you want to happen. Read even like 2 panels of Birds when she was there and see how much freer, more fun, more dangerous, risk taking and overall better she was then in the hawkman series.

You never read Hawkman ....and lets be honest...I never read Birds of Prey. So we cancel each other out. But we both have read JLA and this is her being wrote better ? Really ? I like Dwayne McDuffie's writing but she seems written in a way in either she's gonna be in danger , be argueing with Roy over some stupied reason or watching his kid .



Umm don't tell me what I have and have not read thank you very much and again Progress for Hawkman does not mean Progress for Kendra. There was really no Progress for making Kendra better.

Calling it as I see it...I never read Birds of Prey. I'm being honest here. Kendra had a story-arc where Hawkman died and she showed more character growth than what we've seen here.


Babysitting his kid? Umm yeah making this up to make something actually decent sound more ridculous than how ridculous you want to pretend it to be is really silly, but its you so hey.

It is silly. But considering she got instant horny at seeing Roy Harper's kid...I'd imagine we'll see it soon where she'll have to spend an issue babysitting his kid.

You continue to say that Roy only said one line and then showed her his kid and they jumped in bed, except in 11 issues they were together alover every other paghe working together, talking, poking fun at one another, flirting, actually you know building towards something and yeah even though vixen was in the worst issue to date of the JLA with Roy, Roy and HG actually have spent a hell of a lot more panel time together before they jumped into bed then you are giving Melzter credit for. You know pretending stuff didn't happen cause you want something else to happen doesn't work in real life.

Pretending stuff happened off panel doesn't mean it happens in the book. They never had any real interaction . They joked in a few issues , they winked ....and then Roy shows her the kid. Beyond that...nothing. They had no real interaction and thats where fans say Brad Meltzer got his bones off on Roy nailing Kendra.

He did almost died with Vixen. They shared a moment where they discussed their families and had to manage a way out. If anything..those 2 were a better couple by this issue alone. Then issues later she and Roy are like best friends as she shoots one of his arrows in training. Its strange how Vixen has shared more panel time than Roy/Kendra.

Its bad writing Johnny. Its never gonna change it. The 2 should have nearly died togethor in issue 11 to make the leap to issue 12. Instead...they didn't. And its such a shoddy story-plot its gonna take a good writer to retcon it and actually make the Hawkgirl character worth a crap again.

Also while they were building this relationship when she was in the field was was written as one of the JLA best and more fun and she actually was a great character in the field as far as action went.

Which we rarely saw. I blame it on Meltzer. He was busy making Roy Harper the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of course she's had better action scenes in JSA than what she's had in JLA. I'd wish DC would let Johns have Hawkgirl again. He wrote her well...had her take part in some big action scenes ...

Not only that but in the issue they had sex the going to the bedroom was not rushed. And even if you did not want them to be together have sex, they have actually had character development as a couple since then and continue to grow so its not like they are continuing to build on what they have and it was just a one time thing.

It was rushed...take a poll. It was a rushed plot point for Brad Melter. You may hate to admit it...but it was a rushed nightmare and what developement have they had ? The characters have argued and Roy's yells for someone not to touch her. My god....thats character development ?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

This. Which makes arguing all of these points with him practically useless, my friend. With no firsthand knowledge of the source material, ol' Johnny's nevertheless convinced himself that somehow, some way, Kendra was mistreated in Hawkman simply because she was alongside Carter. Never mind the fact that they weren't even romantically involved in the series till near its end, or that she's been mischaracterized ever since in nearly everything she's appeared in--including Hawkgirl--with the notable exception of a couple of Birds of Prey issues by Gail. And I read those issues too, slick, and let me tell you, that was Hawkman Hawkgirl all the way. If you liked it so much, you should take off your blinders, go back, and read those back-issues, because you'll find a lot more of the same.

As far as we being fanboys stuck in our ways, I won't speak for anybody else, but I'm fine with that label if it helps you sleep at night. Truth is, I'm more open to changes in the funny books than most, but this one was executed extremely poorly and has only hurt both characters since, but I'd actually argue Kendra more so. I'm really enjoying Carter's exploits in both JSA and Holy War right now, and he's scheduled to be appearing in Tirinity soon as well, not to mention the July issue of Brave and the Bold, followed by his own special in August. On the other hand, Hawkgirl only has JLA at the moment, and it seems like every time Kendra makes an appearance Roy's right there alongside her. So much for being independent, I guess.

And you can say all you want about the "development" between those two, but it simply wasn't there. It's ironic that you think we're the ones seeing things, because all we're seeing is what was printed. Kendra was little more than a prop for Roy to play off of, trading a couple quips with him here and there, fighting in couple of battles with him without nary a word passing between them, facing off against him in the "Kitchen," and then jumping in the sack with the guy once she found out he had a daughter. The fact that you complain as if she and Carter were somehow forced together in Hawkman only makes it that much more obvious that you haven't read that series, because by comparison if anything was forced, it was Kendra hooking up with Roy.

But I guess sudden changes to established relationships is always better, no matter in what ham-fisted manner such is carried out. God forbid we have a happy superheroic couple to read about that's not just another flash-in-the-pan romance that's all too common in comics. So on that note, I say split up Reed and Sue Richards. Permanently this time. That thing's been played out long enough as it is and it's time fans move past it already. Have Reed, I don't know, disappear for a while out in space, while Sue finds out Namor has a couple of young children. According to Meltzer's Shoddy Steps to Character Development (now available in paperback) that common link should finally get her to fall for the guy.

HA HA HA..I agree whole heartedly. Had there been a long term story-plot to make Roy/Kendra work then , I'd be all for it. Had they worked on making the 2 have more interaction in 12 issues and tell a story from Kendra's perspective...we'd likely care more.

Instead they didn't. Now DC's got a major problem with Hawkgirl. By trying to follow a cartoon...they alienated a fanbase of a solid selling book. They just pissed on em. Now they gotta come in , fix it and appeal to the comic book fans again.

DC';s made some stupied decisions. Deciding to make the Hawkgirl from the DCU into the Hawkgirl from the cartoon was moronic. And I like Dwayne McDuffie and the cartoon he did. But its not worked and maybe its time to appeal to comic book fans and just change the character back .

[40yearoldnovafan]

DC pretty much ruined her character the moment they broke her and Hawkman up. The love story the 2 were building for 4 years was tossed aside and her solo series ended in 16 issues since most fans were like F THIS CRAP.


They ruined the Hawkman title. I read far more Marvel than DC, but I Ioved the Hawkman series. And when they finally brought Hawkman "back from the dead" and Hawkwoman and he hooked up I was jonesing for more. Then this whole title change and breaking up the two birds. Add that to hooking her up with the Green Arrow - I was livid I think this ticked me off before that "One More Day" crap in Spiderman. Hawkman was one of the titles I could not wait to read.

Some of these creators are getting on my nerves. They love to "Kill them, oops, bring them back to life. Break them up, oops, put them with someone else or back together." I guess this is the only way to create excitement in comics.

[40yearoldnovafan]

Held down? Cough! Held down. Please... I've seen you post before, and I'm well aware how drastically our tastes differ.
If you like the relationship then I know I'm going to hate it long before touching the issues in question.

Kendra kicked massive amounts of ass during Grey's and Palmiotti's tenure on Hawkman. She was every bit as brutal as Carter during combat.
To me they appealed to my inner hopeless romantic. A tragic love story 3000 years in the making. 4 years of build up where Kendra and Carter finally found the right moment... God... I hate the one year later shitty concept.

I'm am 100% with you. This was great stuff.

But last year DC stated they were planning a Hawkman and Hawkwoman series (I think). I was guessing Kendra would not be Hawkwoman series. Has anyone heard any news?

[carabas]

Just because they are both hawks means jack shit in the case of whether someone should be together with someone or not. Thats like saying if hulk courted she hulk for a while that they belong together cause they are both hulks.I'll put it really simply: you've got that backwards. They are not together because they are bot hawks. They are both hawks because their ever reincarnating souls have been linked together through the ages.

[Gail Simone]

I really love Hawkgirl. What an amazing character. It was a pleasure to get to write a few lines for her.

Gail

[Hawkman]

I'm am 100% with you. This was great stuff.

But last year DC stated they were planning a Hawkman and Hawkwoman series (I think). I was guessing Kendra would not be Hawkwoman series. Has anyone heard any news?

Check out my sig, Novafan. No idea if they'll be a Hawkgirl/woman appearing should the series actually get off the ground, but when it was mentioned at '07's San Diego Comic Con, word was that it would be Hawkman and Hawkgirl. Since it's been so long, though, I have to believe that plans have since changed.

I really love Hawkgirl. What an amazing character. It was a pleasure to get to write a few lines for her.

Gail
And, Gail, you really did do a fantastic job with the character with those few lines and panels you gave you. Seriously, I've said it on other boards, but I want to say it again here in the hopes that you'll see it: the last time I feel Kendra was written truly well was in your Birds of Prey "Dead of Winter" arc. The face-off between her and Scandal was superb. Thanks for that.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I really love Hawkgirl. What an amazing character. It was a pleasure to get to write a few lines for her.

Gail


It would be interesting to see your take Gail on Kendra in JLA . How do you feel she's been handled ? Knowing you enjoy the character ...whats your take ?