Justice Society Suggestions?

[Flash's Lightning]

I really enjoy JSA, and would like to read some of the "classic" stuff. Anything pre-Crisis.

What are the best stories? The less campiness the better, but I can put up with some if it's fun.

[COMIC GEEK]

The 80's had some good stories and even the crossovers from the jla issues with the jsa were great as well

[LtMarvel]

All-Star Squadron would routinely have story arcs adapting JSA stories from the 1940s.

You should also look at the Dollar Sized Adventure comics, where you can see the death of Batman!

[Flash's Lightning]

Thank you! I'll see if I can track down the JLA/JSA books along with Adventure Comics. Didn't Adventure also have Supergirl? Bonus.

[Stuck-in-the-Burg]

I enjoyed America v. The Justice Society, Last Days of the Justice Society, and Adventure Comics 461-463 which deals with the Batman of Earth-2.


On a related note:

Did anyone read the JSA: Strange Adventures mini-series from four years ago? Is it worth reading?

[Shellhead]

For good pre-Crisis JSA appearances, I recommend:

The Crisis on Multiple Earths trades, for those classic JLA/JSA team-ups. The popularity of those team-ups inspired DC to do the first Crisis, to make those kind of team-ups more accessible to the writers.

The two Justice Society trades that re-print the '70s JSA series that first appeared in All-Star Comics #58-74. Here are the covers of the two reprint trades, which otherwise lack distinctive names to identify them:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/45136284718.1.gif

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All-Star Squadron. I personally have not read many of these comics, but I've heard that the overall series was good. Roy Thomas definitely has some affection for these golden age heroes.

Infinity, Inc. (the original series, not the current one) featured the offspring of the JSA and often featured guest appearances by the JSA. I especially recommend the first ten issues, for a great story involving the Ultra-Humanite and several JSA members turned completely ruthless.

[Ghost Shark]

ALL-STAR SQUADRON introduced me to the concepts of Earth 2, and since then have always preferred its heroes. Roy Thomas' affection for the golden age of comics shines through, and his writing is outstanding. He made each character unique, and his stories were fun and inventive. COIE realy screwed this series up, though. Too bad.

Pick these up if you can, you won't be sorry.

[marshal99]

America vs the Justice society mini series 1-4 is great , written by DC resident earth 2 historian Roy Thomas.

Within the structure of the main story of the trial , it is basically a chronology of Earth 2 JSA timeline and history in the pre-crisis universe, with a lot of footnotes and references. Also features the death of Per Degaton pre-crisis.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/03372283764.2.gif

As mentioned , the all star squadron which also includes the members of the JSA is a good read. The series tends to spotlight the lesser known heroes like Johnny Quick , Liberty Belle , Tarantula , Firebrand , Robotman , Commander Steel , Amazing man etc more although it does have story arcs involving the big guns of the JSA like the spectre , E2 superman , Dr Fate , flash , green lantern etc.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3327/1allstarsquadub6.jpg

[Flash's Lightning]

Cool. What about Doc Midnight? Does he have some good appearances?

[Ghost Shark]

He does indeed, and, if I am not mistaken (it's been awhile), his original is retold in there somewhere too.

I still have the complete run of ALL-STAR SQUADRON in a longbox at home. If it weren't for Roy Thomas, I doubt the JSA would even have it's own series today. And no one would have even heard of characters like Johnny Quick, Liberty Belle, Firebrand, etc. without him.

[Babylon23]

All-Star Squadron was the first ongoing DC series I collected. I still have those issues in my collection today. It's a great series, especially the pre-Crisis issues. After Crisis, the series lost it's way a little. The final issue of the series is a great retelling of the origin of the JSA.

[marshal99]

The all star squadron series didn't last long after crisis , although they sort of continued a post crisis sequel when the all star squadron were the secondary characters in the young all stars , also written by Roy Thomas to fill in the continuity gaps caused by COIE.

[Shellhead]

I can't give sole credit to All-Star Squadron for the modern JSA titles, because I skipped most of that series and instead followed Infinity, Inc. What I saw of All-Star Squadron was decent, but I just wasn't interested in retro WWII stuff at the time. I'm sure there were other readers who followed Infinity, Inc but not All-Star Squadron.

[Flash's Lightning]

That picture with all the members of the JSA has Superman in it. But he's JLA. How'd they get that wrong?

And who's the metal guy who's at the podium?

[Shellhead]

That picture with all the members of the JSA has Superman in it. But he's JLA. How'd they get that wrong?

And who's the metal guy who's at the podium?

Superman was a member of the JSA, years before a comic book called Justice League of America was ever published. His membership in All-Star Squadron is a retcon, but only in the sense that the whole All-Star Squadron team was a retcon. It helps if you keep in mind that Superman has been around since his first appearance in 1939, but the modern version keeps getting rebooted and getting more distant from the original character.

EDIT: the metal guy at the podium is Robotman, one of the stars of All-Star Squadron but otherwise kind of a minor golden age character. He is not the same character as the modern Robotman in Doom Patrol.

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/41600674067.1.GIF

[Mon-el]

On a related note:

Did anyone read the JSA: Strange Adventures mini-series from four years ago? Is it worth reading?

I read it.

It was decent enough Mini, I wouldn't go so far as say it was great or anything. I read the reviews at the time it came out some of the older fans considered it classic storytelling. I felt a bit indifferent. It was standard superhero storytelling In My Opinion.

[Flash's Lightning]

Superman was a member of the JSA, years before a comic book called Justice League of America was ever published.

Ah, that explains that. I knew about the JSA being pre-JLA, and how they explained it later by saying it was Earth 1/Earth 2 and all, but I didn't realize the S-man was on both teams. That's just wierd.

[Shellhead]

Ah, that explains that. I knew about the JSA being pre-JLA, and how they explained it later by saying it was Earth 1/Earth 2 and all, but I didn't realize the S-man was on both teams. That's just wierd.

It's kind of weird how DC rebooted their whole product line in the late '50s, launching what is now considered to be the silver age of comics. They kept Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman pretty much the same, but created new and different versions of their other popular characters, like Flash, Green Lantern and Hawkman. In general, there was a shift away from pulp and magic characters (like the original Sandman or the Spectre) and towards more science-fiction elements, like aliens and high-tech (Martian Manhunter and the modern Green Lantern). The reason they got away with the reboot was that the very young fanbase of that era didn't care about continuity, and the shift towards science-fiction elements was well-timed.

[Flash's Lightning]

It's kind of weird how DC rebooted their whole product line in the late '50s, launching what is now considered to be the silver age of comics. They kept Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman pretty much the same, but created new and different versions of their other popular characters, like Flash, Green Lantern and Hawkman. In general, there was a shift away from pulp and magic characters (like the original Sandman or the Spectre) and towards more science-fiction elements, like aliens and high-tech (Martian Manhunter and the modern Green Lantern). The reason they got away with the reboot was that the very young fanbase of that era didn't care about continuity, and the shift towards science-fiction elements was well-timed.

In hindsight, do you think they made the right choice? Should they have kept the originals?

[Shellhead]

In hindsight, do you think they made the right choice? Should they have kept the originals?

I think DC made the right choice, and by the mid-'60s, the originals were back, too, as annual guest-stars in Justice League of America. In hindsight, DC might have been better off with a similar change-up every 20 years, instead of the endless cycle of reboots.

For example, instead of doing Crisis on Infinite Earths to merge all the alternate Earths and create lots of continuity glitches, DC could have simply created a new Earth and then kept all the popular old stuff the same, like Batman and Superman. Then they could get more experimental with newer stuff... with new versions of older characters, like making it so that John Stewart had always been the only Green Lantern on Earth. Meanwhile, all the silver age characters would still be alive, but now allowed to get old, on Earth-1. Same with the golden age characters, only they are still on Earth-2.

That way you can have an older Dick Grayson as Nightwing on Earth-1, while still having a reasonably young Batman on the new Earth, and they could even team up in crossover events affecting both Earths. At things stand, Dick needs to die sooner or later, because he is growing old while Batman isn't, and that will eventually cause problems for the writers.

[Flash's Lightning]

I think DC made the right choice, and by the mid-'60s, the originals were back, too, as annual guest-stars in Justice League of America. In hindsight, DC might have been better off with a similar change-up every 20 years, instead of the endless cycle of reboots.

For example, instead of doing Crisis on Infinite Earths to merge all the alternate Earths and create lots of continuity glitches, DC could have simply created a new Earth and then kept all the popular old stuff the same, like Batman and Superman. Then they could get more experimental with newer stuff... with new versions of older characters, like making it so that John Stewart had always been the only Green Lantern on Earth. Meanwhile, all the silver age characters would still be alive, but now allowed to get old, on Earth-1. Same with the golden age characters, only they are still on Earth-2.

That way you can have an older Dick Grayson as Nightwing on Earth-1, while still having a reasonably young Batman on the new Earth, and they could even team up in crossover events affecting both Earths. At things stand, Dick needs to die sooner or later, because he is growing old while Batman isn't, and that will eventually cause problems for the writers.

Interesting. But wasn't the whole point of the Crisis to simplify things? What you're saying would do the opposite...

[Shellhead]

Interesting. But wasn't the whole point of the Crisis to simplify things? What you're saying would do the opposite...

That is the collective fan judgment on the internet today, that the point of the first Crisis was to simplify things. It is also incorrect. The point was to put all the toys in the same universe so everybody could play with them without writing multiverse epics each time.

Look at this cover of the first Justice League line-up after Crisis:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/45004343634.1.gif

On one cover, you've got:

1. two characters from Jack Kirby's Fourth World mythology (Mr. Miracle and Oberon)
2. a character from Earth-2 with a really messed-up backstory (Black Canary)
3. a new hero named after a well-known villain... even wearing a nearly identical costume for no reason that ever made any sense (Dr. Light)
4. a character aquired from the now-defunct Charlton Comics (Blue Beetle) who is also the inspiration for a character in The Watchmen (Nite Owl)
5. Batman, one of the most famous characters of all time, but with a sliding timeline history that goes back to about 1940.
6. The least famous of JLA's big seven (Martian Manhunter)
7. another Earth-2 hero, and who one appeared rarely outside of the annual JSA teamups in JLA until after the Crisis (Dr. Fate)
8. The least famous and least popular of the Green Lanterns of Earth (Guy Gardner), sporting a new costume and haircut.
9. The famous Captain Marvel, acquired years earlier from the defunct Fawcett Comics, and not allowed to use his own name on comic covers due to a lame legal manuever by Marvel more than a decade earlier.

See, that isn't a simple line-up at all. Suicide Squad got restarted with a similar scattered line-up, and popular heroes like Hawkman and Wonder Woman got new origins that wrecked continuity for lots of other characters. The classic New Teen Titans story "Who is Donna Troy?" became a running joke with fans.

[marshal99]

Ah, that explains that. I knew about the JSA being pre-JLA, and how they explained it later by saying it was Earth 1/Earth 2 and all, but I didn't realize the S-man was on both teams. That's just wierd.

Erm , i'm guessing you didn't read COIE itself or the more recent infinite crisis if you didn't know that there is a superman on both JSA & JLA.

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[Flash's Lightning]

:tongue: That is the collective fan judgment on the internet today, that the point of the first Crisis was to simplify things. It is also incorrect. The point was to put all the toys in the same universe so everybody could play with them without writing multiverse epics each time.

I guess that makes sense.

Erm , i'm guessing you didn't read COIE itself or the more recent infinite crisis if you didn't know that there is a superman on both JSA & JLA.

Funnily enough, I read both. I don't remember any part of either where it shows Superman on the JSA. Though now that I know, I'll have to reread them both to see what I missed.

[earl]

I'm kind of surprised that DC hasn't put out any of those All Star Squadron in at least a Showcase. It was a pretty solid series and it had quite a few good artists in the run. Infinity Inc. got off to a good start, I seem to remember it kind of getting worse as it went on. Writers have definitely not been too kind to those characters since that series. It seems though that the big DC series seem to be kind of hard on the JSA and related characters.

How Steve Englehart and later DeMatteis and Giffen used Guy Gardner was pretty good. I think the joke got old and definitely weird down the line, but I think that how they used him in the 80s was a pretty good rewrite of an old and unused character.

[Shellhead]

I'm kind of surprised that DC hasn't put out any of those All Star Squadron in at least a Showcase. It was a pretty solid series and it had quite a few good artists in the run. Infinity Inc. got off to a good start, I seem to remember it kind of getting worse as it went on. Writers have definitely not been too kind to those characters since that series. It seems though that the big DC series seem to be kind of hard on the JSA and related characters.


I would be interested in getting an All-Star Squadron Showcase, though it would probably take two cover the whole run. Infinity Inc always had visually interesting characters, but the quality dropped off sharply after the first year, though the last year got pretty interesting again and bizarrely led into Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. There were some nice guest appearances by JSA members throughout the Infinity Inc run, and an incredibly good issue dealing with Crisis-created continuity problems involving the original Wonder Woman.