Bug eyes

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I´m curious, has there ever been a japanese director or group of animation creators who broke away from the anime norms (Tezuka-inspired conventions like the big eyes)?

I just find it odd that so many creative minds seem to accept conformity when such a big part of art is braving new venues of expression...

[Gezora]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Probably the least intelligent answer you'll get, but that's just how I feel.

[Pikachu]

If you mean artists with a less "cartoon" style of art and a more "realistic" style, then there are too many to name.

Remember, manga as a medium is far more vast than American comics. America may have a strong underground and independent comic book scene, but Japan's puts everything you may find in America to shame in terms of quantity and quality. It's just a comic book thriving country.

Inoue Takehiko is the main name in terms of realism, as he's one of Japanese biggest artists.

Kiriko Nananan's work is extremely realistic and her stand alone stories come out as collected "novella" style picture books--more similar to a graphic novel than an ongoing series. :cool:

Naoki Urasawa, although you might consider his characters big eyed, if you look at his work you'll find even though he has an extremely cartoony style, his caricaturisms capture more realistically the various facial expressions and human emotional content than even the most realistic drawings.

Many Japanese horror comics, a huge genre unto itself, use gritty realistic art with lots of dark contrast to make extremely moody situations.

In fact, many of the modern horror comics such as Tsytomou Takahashi's SKYHIGH have more in common stylistically with the traditional wood block etchings of the Tokugawa period (1600-1680 C.E.), depicting ghost stories done on Buddhist partitions and wood panels, than it has to do with contemporary manga. Everything from the brood brush strokes to the use of heavy blacks all the way down to the type of brush and the texture of the strokes used reminds you it's not so much a cartoon emulation as much as an emulation of traditional Japanese Tokugawan art. :wink:

I recommend you check out the book Manga: Masters of the Art by Timothy Lehmann (http://www.amazon.com/Manga-Masters-Art-Timothy-Lehmann/dp/B000GG4FFE/ref=sr_1_68?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212896508&sr=1-68) for a wonderfully involved look at artists who range from the avantgarde to the super realism you are looking for.

If you want more on the history of manga and the relationship between contemporary trends and traditional Japanese artistic periods read One Thousand Years of Manga by Brigitte Koyama-Richard.
(http://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Years-Manga-Brigitte-Koyama-Richard/dp/2080300296/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3A4WPRXE7UL43&colid=1YJBKLRIR49EJ) :redface:

I hope that helps answer some of your questions.

Pika!

[The Xenos]

"Hey, Janine, sorry about the bug eyes thing."

Ghostbusters references aside, yeah, there are a number. Though I think maybe more in manga than anime. Anime tends to be simpler or often more cartoony for animation's sake.

Pika there covered it well. I don't know about saying more vast in terms of styles, but certainly the publishing field of comics if more healthy than the American one. It's a more plentiful country for comics.

There are some good examples there. ON a shelf by my desk I have a bunch of manga. I have a Japanese copy of Alive by the author of Sky High. Certainly a more realistic style. A couple others here are good examples of more realistic styles, like Freesia and Homunculus. Plus a copy of Ryoichi Ikegami's Sanctuary. Gorgeous realistic art on that.

Actually, talk about bug eyes, I have a copy of Hideshi Hino's The Bug Boy that I need to get around to reading.

[Pikachu]

Originally Posted by the Xenos:
I don't know about saying more vast in terms of styles, but certainly the publishing field of comics if more healthy than the American one. It's a more plentiful country for comics.

Maybe I should have clarified what I meant by more vast. It's true, in terms of the various styles Japan and the U.S. run about the same in variety and selection. The U.S. might have the edge due to color and the vivid effects you can get now a days with digital painting.

As for genre and story, Japan has the edge here. In Japan Yaoi Comics, Senien comics, and even Hentai are all part of the mainstream market. But in America finding and locating decent adult books has traditionally been harder to do. Luckily, without the Comics Code breathing down the neck of creators, American comic books have broadened a bit. But let's not forget that Japan has had 60 odd years of this freedom, so it will take a while for the American market to catch up.

Besides, there's also the odd stigma of so many American adults thinking comics are 'just for kids.' Even though we all know that "Trix" are for kids, everything else is fair game. Luckily, this stigma is slowly fading away too, thanks to in part by manga's significant worldwide boom and global expansion of the various genres. Books like Spiderman Love's Mary Jane were namely developed to combat the recent popularity Shojo-manga, and it was a good example of an American company emulating a specific genre, girl's comics, and trying to reach out to a new demographic traditionally not targeted by the American comic book industry. :smile:

Pika!

[OverMaster]

Katsuhiro Otomo's works and Ping Pong Club look 'non bug-eyed' enough to me.

[MartinRedmond]

If you mean artists with a less "cartoon" style of art and a more "realistic" style, then there are too many to name.

Remember, manga as a medium is far more vast than American comics. America may have a strong underground and independent comic book scene, but Japan's puts everything you may find in America to shame in terms of quantity and quality. It's just a comic book thriving country.

Oh, please.



Inoue Takehiko is the main name in terms of realism, as he's one of Japanese biggest artists.

Kiriko Nananan's work is extremely realistic and her stand alone stories come out as collected "novella" style picture books--more similar to a graphic novel than an ongoing series. :cool:

Naoki Urasawa, although you might consider his characters big eyed, if you look at his work you'll find even though he has an extremely cartoony style, his caricaturisms capture more realistically the various facial expressions and human emotional content than even the most realistic drawings.


All of those artists still draw cartoony in the manga face style norm. Especially the last one.

[MartinRedmond]

Deathnote has some realistic looking characters.

[ChrisIII]

I might be a little biased here as a mecha fan but the OAVs Gundam 0083 and Macross Plus largely feature small eyes. (The rest of their respective series favor the big eyes, though).


There is a great deal of variation in the big eyes design, though. Say what you will about Dragonball and Toriyama, he has a fairly unique design structure compared to several other animes, and the work of Haruhiko mikimoto(Not sure if I'm spelling that right) who worked on Macross (Not plus, though) is pretty unique at least in manga form. Miyazaki's designs also stand out.

[jesse_custer]

Director Yoshiaki Kawajiri and the animation team he usually works with, Madhouse.

[The Xenos]

All of those artists still draw cartoony in the manga face style norm. Especially the last one.

Deathnote has some realistic looking characters.

Are you kidding? If anything, Death Note is more 'typical manga style' than those other three. Maybe Monster is closer to Death Note. Though Death Note can have some pretty details characters, it's not quite as much as Vagabond. Actually, Monster may be around the same as Death Note, maybe not as detailed, but it's cartoony is a fashion atypical to manga. I want to say a little like some European comics. Meh. I think they're all pretty well up there with quality and realistic drawing. Certainly well done dramatic storytelling in comic art.

I would disagree with Pika's "Japan's puts everything you may find in America to shame in terms of quantity and quality."

I'd say that the cream of the crop of manga puts the majority of US comics to shame. Okay. The overall quantity and market strength of manga compared to its US counterpart is definitely stronger, but I wouldn't rule out everything American. The trouble with American comics is that you have to look for it more, especially since comics in general are tougher to find in our culture.

I'm pretty damn jealous of Japan where you do see comics everywhere. Maybe as a comic geek I was more aware of it when I went over there for a vacation, but they seemed to be quite prevalent. Hell, I don't even see comics in the supermarket anymore. Maybe a convenience store, but then only a handful of titles. Compare that to the giant section of the magazine rack I saw at the Family Mart down the street from where I stayed in Japan. Hell, the 18+ manga section was better than any comic section I've seen in any recent US convenience store. I haven't seen a newsstand with any decent comics section in years.

[MartinRedmond]

Oops wrong thread VELY SOLLY!!

[Pikachu]

Originally posted by the Xenos:
I would disagree with Pika's "Japan's puts everything you may find in America to shame in terms of quantity and quality."


Yeah, I might have to take that comment back.

There are tons of amazing artwork and books being published in America still (I think). My problem is I haven't been in America for so long that I've sort of lost track of the market... but at the same time, when I was in the U.S. for every decent comic book I did find I found ten Japanese manga which captivated me just as well. Eventually the numbers were so uneven I gave up trying to hunt down decent American books and started reading only manga.

But that doesn't mean I don't buy American books any more. I still pick up a book now and then. I thoroughly loved Warren Ellis' "Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E." It was thoroughly hilarious. And I recently picked up Frank Cho's "Shanna, The She-Devil" and drooled over every page. But those are pretty mainstream, since I have to go through Amazon.com to get any U.S. comics way out here in Japan. So no "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac" or "Tank Girl" for me. But even finding those trade-paperback took a bit of work back in the day.

Let's just say finding manga is easy. I step outside and somebody has bundled up their used manga and it's sitting next to my doorstep. Do I steal it? No, I go to the store, but it's everywhere. In the salons, in the coffee shops, the local resturants, every store, the convenient store, the book stores are like manga heaven here. So my comic book fix isn't hurting any.

Pika!

[Pikachu]

Originally posted by Pikachu:
Remember, manga as a medium is far more vast than American comics. America may have a strong underground and independent comic book scene, but Japan's puts everything you may find in America to shame in terms of quantity and quality. It's just a comic book thriving country.

Originally posted by MartinRedmond:
Oh, please.

First off, I was talking about the American underground, not so much mainstream comics. Although, due to my sloppy grammar I see how you mistook it for a general statement on the comci book industry as a whole.

I agree, in terms of the comic market over all, yeah, I'd have to eat my hat. But the context was specifically a reference to 'underground' comics, and as such, I still think that comment has some validity. To prove it, I shall compare the U.S. underground and independent comic book market to the Japanese one by using only one word.

Doujinshi.

Deal with it.

Pika!

[The Xenos]

Ah. Thank you loose Japanese copyright laws and companies that allow the 'parody' and xxx 'parody' market to thrive. Now not all doujinshi are porn versions of other people characters. There are a number of original books. It's just that sex and popular characters sell and such books take a good chunk of the market.

There was an interesting article in Wired on the legal and market issues of doujinshi with copyrighted characters.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/15-11/ff_manga


There are tons of amazing artwork and books being published in America still (I think). My problem is I haven't been in America for so long that I've sort of lost track of the market... but at the same time, when I was in the U.S. for every decent comic book I did find I found ten Japanese manga which captivated me just as well. Eventually the numbers were so uneven I gave up trying to hunt down decent American books and started reading only manga.

Well, I said there were good American books out there. I never said they sold well. Ha. Hell, likely some of the crappier manga in Japan or even America sells much better than good American books. Hell, crappier American books sadly tend to sell better than the good ones. Of course that's one benefit of internet forums, you can snipe out lost gems and cult hits.

[Pikachu]

Originally posted by the Xenos:
There was an interesting article in Wired on the legal and market issues of doujinshi with copyrighted characters.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/m...15-11/ff_manga

Great doujinshi article, by the way. :redface:

Pika!